>Outland nostalgia edition
Discuss the viability of the Warcraft universe as a tabletop RPG setting. Have fun, don't be an autist, and keep your cool. This is not /v/.
>Previous thread:
>>46457807
>>46476609
Hey, that would explain why some of the ships in Warlords of Draenor come with Murloc crew!
>>46476580
I just posted >>46476643 and I just post here in the hope that everybody reads it.
>>46476646
very well put, the orcs might be less sensitive but trying to genocide 3 races at the drop of a hat is terrible
>>46476654
agreed. No need to rush creating threads considering how slow they can get
>>46476646
List them.
Were they actually genuinely unprovoked?
In either case, genocide is evil alright, but again you need to consider the context where orcs are nation who don't have concept of peaceful coexistence the way the alien refugees do. And even if you decide to take their savagery as proof of irredeemable evil, you're still being unfair towards the individuals who got over their instincts.
>>46476697
> "Little lady, don’t know how you survive. But we correct mistake.”
> They all drew their weapons—axes, roadswords, knives that glin-ted dully with the slick of poison on their blades.
> Jaina felt her own lips stretch in a rictus of a grin. They looked at her more closely, at first clearly puzzled by her unexpected reaction,
and then their leader began to laugh. “We get to kill Jaina Proudmoore!” he said.
> “Bring her head back to Warchief Garrosh!” sked another orc
These Orcs are green, so they are from the original ones that followed Thrall.
>>46476728
Yes, read "Rise of the Horde".
Draenei's were peaceful and had no intention to fight the Orcs.
We all played WC1 and 2 so I don't think I need to explain that.
As for Garrosh... does anyone not know what he was doing?
So because they have a different culture its alright to go genocide other races? how does it not them being evil?
Nazi only tried genocide once and we call them evil as fuck.
Orcs tried 3 times.
The only one who got over his instinct was Thrall and he grew with human.
His father was did running around genocide Draenei.
Why is it so hard to accept that orcs are evil?
>>46476646
Let's be clear: The only reason the orcs even could achieve such a thing as 80% genocide of a vastly superior culture in terms of science, military infrastructure and knowledge of sorcery was because they united as a horde, which they only did after being called together by Ner'zhul after he had been already deceived. Once united, it's not difficult to whip them into a murderfrenzy as orcs apparently cannot handle adrenaline very well, as is hinted at in Durotan's lord of war trailer, so I'll give you that.
Also admittedly there already were some very strong resentiments against Draenei, but up to that point the orcs actually had a policy of keeping their distance for the most part, with the odd clan deciding it would be cool to raid the shiny crystal cities.
But to assume that orcs are innately out for blood all the time is just wrong.
>>46476798
The story after Cata says otherwise.
Orcs do innately go out for blood all the time.
Reminder, neither Ogrim or Durotan was ever affected by Demon blood(since they didn't drank it). Ogrim still set out to genocide the rest of the humans in eastern kingdom.
>>46476781
>Rise of the Horde
>Long ago, on the idyllic world of Draenor, the noble orc clans lived in relative peace with their enigmatic neighbors, the draenei. But the nefarious agents of the Burning Legion had other plans for both of the unsuspecting races.
I'm done with reading stuff by ms Golden but this doesn't make it sound like it would actually support your claim.
>WC1 and 2
have literally nothing to do with anything since the horde is led by demons there.
>Garrosh
hardly proof of Orcs being fundamentally evil.
>because they have a different culture it's alright to genocide other races?
No. But it does not mean that they are BORN evil. Furthermore your previous points show that you're lying when you say they genocide people without demonic influence.
>Nazi only tried genocide once and we call them evil as fuck.
We call nazis evil, and not everyone does that.
Only very few people call Germans evil.
Why is it so hard to accept that you are wrong?
>>46476893
>on the idyllic world of Draenor, the noble orc clans lived in relative peace with their enigmatic neighbors
WoD made Draenor a deathworld, and orcs were brutally bullied by the ogres kek
>>46476916
Guess it would look idyllic to a band of natural murderhobos :^)
And to be fair, it does look rather gorgerous even in WoD
>>46476950
> tfw I still remember when Draenor was the red world that the Alliance expedition was lost in
>>46476972
That region is still in game though
>>46476996
The red WORLD
Not the "lustrious jungle that become red but we won't know when exactly" region
>>46476893
Go read how durotan go around slaughtering everyone in draenei village. and remember, he never drank the blood.
in WC2 orcs was lead by Ogrim Doomhammer.
someone who didn't drank demon blood and therefore was never controlled by demon to begin with.
Garrosh raised to warchief because he was popular among the young orcs and they support his plans.
Understood yet?
Yes they are, tell me why else would Mag'har orcs (including Garrosh) , who grew up in not-very-violent Nagrand, free of demonic taint, decides its cool to go genocide the Alliance?
Why is it so hard to admit Orcs are evil and you are just a fanboy trying to debase the idea with no lore to back you up?
>>46476749
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGiQjZ1-9FI
She should have drowned orgrimmar.
>>46477077
Bz won't even allow the DKks to attack undercity
That's never going to happen.
>>46476893
Let's look at some examples of the orcish clans.
>Warsong
Raiders, murderers- take what they want, create nothing of their own.
>Shattered Hand
Sadists, masochists, murderers, psychopaths. Their whole thing is how they enjoy inflicting/receiving pain, going out of their way to make as gruesome a display of their enemies as possible. Likely the most evil.
>Bleeding Hollow
Savage orcs even by orcish standards, love ritual sacrifice and bloodletting.
>Blackrock Clan
Might makes right. Arguably not that evil, but when the mightiest one is a total fuckhead like Blackhand, it goes down the tubes.
>Shadowmoon Clan
One of the only peaceful clans, with shamans and mystics at the forefront. However, Gul'dan came from this clan and he is the shining example of darkness that all evil warlocks aspire to.
>Laughing Skull Clan
Lunacy seems to be their M.O., which makes sense with all the shit they have to deal with. Savage and insane, perhaps very territorial, but not inherently evil.
>Frostwolf Clan
Family togetherness, blah blah blah. Run with the pack, etc. Not evil, but they have a bloodlust in them, as evidenced by Ga'nar. Went along with the demon-blood-drinking Orcish Horde out of fear of being wiped out by them.
>Flowerpicker ClanMysterious.
Orcs are violent, plain and simple. They come from a place where shit wants to murder you 99 times out of 100 (the exception being the draenei), so their cultures developed accordingly. However, it seems that most of orcish violence comes from their hyper-machismo-based culture rather than an inherent desire to kill.
i.e. "YOU AREN'T A REAL ORC UNLESS YOU DIE IN GLORIOUS BATTLE", and "YOU DISHONOR YOUR ANCESTORS BY USING DIPLOMACY".
Orcs as a species are capable of being more than dindus, but they have to be raised with enough influence from non-orcs for this to be the case until going, "nah, I don't think I want to cleave skulls for a living" becomes acceptable.
>>46477100
no, just saying from an in universe perspective, the rathole being flooded and drowned would be a good thing.
>>46477135
Well it should.
But BZ don't allow that to happen
>> "Then—blame me, Jaina. Ancestors know, I blame myself. But do not seek to buy vengeance for the fallen of Theramore by killing my people!"
Thrall is perfectly ok to watch other's people gets killed but not his.
He really is a dick.
>>46477301
Their people made their bed, they needed to lie in it.
>>46477114
ya, so the alliance camps were a mistake, all orc children should have been removed from their parents and given to proper human parents to be taught love and compassion. worked for thrall can work again.
>>46477345
or just kill them.
That's what the alliance nearly decided upon.
>>46477036
>Go read how durotan go around slaughtering everyone in draenei village. and remember, he never drank the blood.
>Ner'zhul told them what he believed the ancestors revealed to him - that the draenei were enemies of the orcish people
>Doomhammer
Alright, he was shit too. And part of army controlled and/or manipulated by demons and warlocks to compound his already brutal background.
>young orcs
just like young humans. Always more willing to throw their lives away and to embark on murderous adventures.
>maghar
When did they genocide Alliance? Do you even know what the word means?
> you are just a fanboy trying to debase the idea with no lore to back you up?
Now you're projecting. The fluff you mention actually contradicts you outright in several cases or forces you to stretch it. Either your memory of what you read is faulty or you are just being dishonest to justify your current opinions. In either case arguing with you is pointless because you clearly don't care about truth at all, otherwise you would have admitted that even Thrall alone proves your statement of inherently evil orcs to be false.
>>46477036
I for my part never wanted to come across as an orc apologist. They are originally a tribal culture with a very strong martial aspect to it. Whereas in our modern society, fighting and killing is frowned upon and avoided as much as possible, their society views it as a necessity in their daily lives and that definitely leads to some glorification, much like buddy >>46477114 says. There is a deeply rooted sense of martial pride in their culture and there's no denying that.
However, that is only one side, which sadly gets propagated by the authors all the time and completely forgetting that there's another side of that coin. As a tribal culture, they are focused on survival. As such, the lives of their own are still an important resource, and wasting that resource on every opportune combat situation is likely avoided, as well. An original account of Kilrogg withholding his forces on the very first attack on Stormwind in the first war pretty much shows that the orcs are potentially capable of understanding the value of a living soldier over a dead hero.
As such, we can clearly deduce that orcs potentially love to fight, but won't unless necessary. True enough that some clans probably would seek opportunity for combat more often than others, but that is an aspect based on the individual clan rather than the orc culture as a whole.
Apart from that, there' still the fact that peer pressure through the Horde has probably swept a whole lot of otherwise peaceful orcs, such as Durotan, along the funride.
It essentially boils down to the authors giving us a basic setup, but then not understanding how to expand on it in a sensible fashion.
You orc-accusers take the lore, which is technically just excerpts from a subjective account, at face value and that's why you'll always get shit from orc-defenders who try to understand the more subtle workings.
Fucking memesters ruin everything I swear.
>>46477345
Then they will be called slavers, evil people who separate kids from their parents.
You know there are still people on forums saying Orc interment camps are evil right?
>>46476781
>Nazi only tried genocide once and we call them evil as fuck.
But we don't call all Germans inherently evil because the nazis were evil.
The thing with the orcs is (or at least was) that they used to be pretty savage but not particularly evil people, who coexisted peacefully with the draenei for a long time. Then the Legion showed up and played on their respect of martial strength, respect for their ancestors and lack of information on the draenei to fool them into thinking their ancestor spirits were warning them about the draenei planning to attack them and the only way to stop it was to unite all the clans and attack first. Then at some point the whole demonblood thing was added to the mix, amplifying the orcs' natural battlerage to turn them into raging berzerkers 24/7.
Cue orc rampaging across Draenor and waging war on Azeroth. After they get defeated and come down from the demonblood-induced high, the survivors realise they've fucked up and vow to never repeat their mistake.
Unfortunately, the writers preferred the WC1/2 era horde, so we have Thrall being a massive Grommashboo and telling everyone how awesome Grom and Orgrim were despite their war crimes. Which leads directly to Orc Hitler coming to power and convincing all the orcs that didn't fight in the first two wars that they need to Make Horde Great Again and crush puny humans like Grom and Orgrim did, because that turned out so well the first time.
>>46477301
>Political leader doesn't want to have his citizens suffer for the mistakes of former political leader
Thrall isn't a dick for caring about his designated group, he's just got an impossibly bad judgement of character when it comes to other orc leaders.
>>46477393
Because they are still evil by our modern sensibilities.
For Lordaeron they were a sensible compromise.
>>46477379
Yeah and he immediately become OK with killing entire city filled with women and childern.
Not very evil huh?
Warlocks were out of power in Doomhammer's reign, Doomhammer killed every member of shadow council except Gul'dan.
You never played WC2 or even WC3 TFT, did you?
Doomhammer acted on his on will with no one behind him.
Young humans never proposed genocide other races. Young orcs did.
The difference is there and you just keep trying to ignore them.
Who do you think was supporting Garrosh? Young Mag'har Orcs who came from outland.
Garrosh himself is a Mag'har orc.
You never read lore, do you?
You couldn't even find a single lore that prove my point wrong.
Actually most of the lore you used are so incorrect its like you never read anytihng on Lore.
The only reason for this to happen I assume is because you are a fanboy trying to defend your favorite race.
There's nothing that says a evil preson can't be trained to be good, which is what Thrall is.
Yeah go ahead and run away with your baseless claims, I seen enough of people like you in these threads.
>>46477462
It's amazing what sort of mental gymnastics you're capable of to pretend that you are right after being caught lying repeatedly. It's like you're physically incapable of seeing contradiction in your own words, like your brain refuses to process them.
Whatever lets you sleep well at night, buddy. Orcs evil, humans good ok.
>>46477380
Tribals don't go around trying to genocide people all day everyday.
Orcs are obviously not just tribals.
Durotan was the leader in the attack of Telmor and he was perfectly ok to kill all the women and child.
I havn't even got a single fluff-piece proving orcs are not born murder machines yet.
You can Blame Kosak's terrible writing, But this is what the lore says.
>>46477525
m8, the maghar orcs never drank the demon blood and they were at the forefront of the
>ORC STRONK WE CRUSH
drive that was Cataclysm and MoP
>>46477413
You will call Germans inherently evil if they continue to support Nazi ideals and creating Nazi 2 and Nazi 3, which is what Orcs does.
Orcs didn't drank the blood until the final battle in Shattrath, which conclude the 80% death rate of Draenei population.
So every slaughter of women and children before that are by their own will.
Honestly, the alliance should just gather up 100 mages and LOIT Orgrimmar, Arathor style.
>>46477036
In fairness to Durotan, he was clearly horrified by his actions afterwards. His story is a giant parallel to being a nice but dutiful mook in Nazi Germany.
>>46477438
We are talking about a bunch of people who just tried to genocide you.
We put these people in prison in real world too, just Lordaeron had bigger ones.
WHERE IS MY supersuit!
>>46477579
ALLIANCE GENOCIDAL MANIACS
THE WORST CRIME IN WARCRAFT WAS THE INTERNMENT
THE ORCS ARE A PROUD AND NOBLE RACE THAT HAVE THE SAME RIGHT TO BE ON AZEROTH AS THE HUMANS
THE DRAENEI DIDN'T BELONG ON DRAENOR SO ITS TOTALLY ALRIGHT TO USE THEM AS HIGHWAY PAVEMENT
and so on and so forth while every toon is a blood elf female/male
>>46477525
So the only counter-argument for all your false lore is calling me a liar and insult me? So sad and pathetic.
Anyone who is reading the thread knows who is lying.
Now go cry to your orc emphasizing friends, loser.
>>46477605
Let's all calm down and get my super suit
>>46477605
>and so on and so forth while every toon is a blood elf female/male
I'm a blood elf player but I'm disgusted at how tons of other sin'doreis are saying the humans are the bad guys in this story
>>46477537
I don't dispute that. Was that because of some inherent quality, though, or was it because orcish culture is violent and relishes in combat and conquest?
And even then you can see that lust for combat it's not shared by everyone in their tribes. Not in Cata, not in MoP and not on Draenor either.
It's not like we didn't have our share of wars. People were not always drafted into army, they joined willingly in hopes of plunder and adventure. I know a few such stories from family history, and they are Italians who nobody would today accuse of being warmongering genocidal maniacs.
Hey it's me, Obrama. Here with an ice macheem
>>46477621
It's you who brought in lore that didn't line up with your narrative though.
>>46477633
Sadly, what he posted is exactly what some horde players says on the forums...
Its sad, really.
>>46477637
We call people who support Nazi warmongering genocidal maniacs
>>46477694
Let's just compare hitler to frozone? NO! how stupid
>>46477650
I have debunked every single one of the statement against me and All I get is "you are lieing"
Seriously, which one was I lying about?
Where is the proof that shows Orcs are noble?
Hell in lore no orc ever apologized to Human or Draenei for all the atrocities they commited to them.
>>46477721
Orcs are not noble, mainly cowards unlike frozone
>>46477671
TAURAJO = HOLOCAUST
HOW DARE JAINA KICK THE BLOOD ELVES OUT OF A CITY AFTER THEY VIOLATED NEUTRALITY?
Also who is the black ice man?
>>46477738
Frozone, the ice black dude from The Incredibles by pixar.
Pretty cool dude.
>>46477752
damn, that takes me back.
>>46477756
more like take youblack
>>46477738
Defernotly not Lucius Best. no sir
As an Orcfag: What makes the Orcs interesting is exactly the fact that most of them are brutal, boneheads, barbarians and bloodthirsty savages, yet at the same time there are some parts that want their race to become more than slobbering retards. And the slow upwards struggle of those few is what made them interesting.
>>46477796
Orcs are no match for FROZONE!
>>46477796
See, hordies want the horde to be badass warriors but also noble and honorable and n1 while being the underdog. All that ends up in creating hordewank
>>46477545
I liked L70ETC back when they were still just L10TC
This thread is why I believe we need another Gnoll War, one that can rival the Horde, Alliance, and the Burning Legion
>>46477694
>We call people who support Nazi warmongering genocidal maniacs
Not for long, it would seem. And in any case that was not story from WW2 but the previous one.
>>46477721
You were lying when you said Durotan slaughtered Draenei because he is an evil orc - he was manipulated by ner'zhul and told that they are demons.
You were lying when you implied that WC orcs were not manipulated by demons.
You were backpedalling from admission that Thrall was alright because human uprising overrode the orc culture he would've been otherwise raised in - and I'll add that his uprising was not idyllic either and he had good reasons to hate humans regardless of what he was brought up in.
You claimed that support for Garrosh's war among young mag'har was a proof of inherent evil of orcs when all it proves is that mag'hari youth are aggressive dindus.
You claimed that Doomhammer's horde was proof of inherent orcish evil while dismissing that he was formed by combination of demonic influence (even if he decided to be his own man) and natural orc savage culture.
I'm not even fan of orcs, that's something you strawmanned because I challenge your cemented opinion of "naturally evil orcs".
>>46477977
I said he was evil because he was ok with slaughtering women and children, good job twisting my word but I am used to people like you at this point.
Doomhammer took over the Horde half way through WC1 till the end of WC2 ToD, and he had nothing to do with the demons.
Ner'zhual controls horde in BoD and he didn't work with demon either.
So no, they weren't being manipulated by demons.
You keep saying stupid shit like this because you never played WC1 or 2, nor read about them.
He was taught the value of a human- not orcish value- that was the point.
Just because you can't understand doesn't mean I am backpedaling.
The Mag'har orcs supporting genocide is not evil? Wow, you really have a problem.
Ogrim Doomhammer was never under demonic influence: he didn't drank Mannaroth's blood.
Again proving you never read the lore.
Yes you are obviously an orc fan who never read anything about the old horde, hence all your stupid mistakes.
>>46477036
>Go read how durotan go around slaughtering everyone in draenei village. and remember, he never drank the blood.
He started a fight in a Draenei village but didn't directly attack civilians IIRC.
>>46477009
It was red when they first showed it, and turning red even before WC1,
>>46476781
>Yes, read "Rise of the Horde".
>Draenei's were peaceful and had no intention to fight the Orcs.
And as far as the Orcs knew, the anscestor spirits who had never lied to the Shadowmoon before told Ner'zhul that the Draenei were plotting their extinction.
The draenei should have warned the orcs about the legion impersonating everything. Or just uplifted them in the first place.
>>46477036
>in WC2 orcs was lead by Ogrim Doomhammer.
>someone who didn't drank demon blood and therefore was never controlled by demon to begin with.
Trying to keep teh demon-powered steamroller with no breaks that was the Horde from going off a cliff to extinction, sadly the only route (He could see) that didn't lead off a cliff had a bunch of humans in the way
>>46478211
Why would the orcs believe them?
Velen told the Fostwolf about Do're and they were eager to kill him for it.
They weren't exactly in a trusting relationship.
And uplifting them will probably be too big a target for the legion to not spot.
>>46478143
>women and children
you mean demons trying to deceive him because he was a superstitious cunt?
>You keep saying stupid shit like this because you never played WC1 or 2, nor read about them.
Maybe you should play them again and think about what you read in them this time
>Ner'zhul didn't work with demons
okay, I guess Kil'Jaeden was draenei then.
>He was taught human values, not orcish values
I guess I'll have to take this as your admission that you basically agree with me that orcs are not evil by nature and just don't want to say so out of fear of losing face or something similarly stupid.
>drinking demon blood is the only way by which demons can influence people
okay buddy
>>46478280
They should have started it more subtly back before tensions grew too high.
>>46477528
They didn't go on a genocide spree until after they were directed to fight the Draenei through Kil'Jaeden's ruse, which is at least around the time they were formed into 'a' horde, if not necessarily 'the' horde.
Before that, they were tribals. That's what I said. I said that they were originally tribals, as in back when there was no mention of a 'horde' in any way.
That changed. They changed because they had an actual warmonger play to their fears and resentiments against a race they have had next to no knowledge about. That motivation led to an extreme act of violence that is, ultimately, inexcusable. Yet it is not an act motivated by the orcs being born to be assholes or even their cultures being all about being assholes. It is a complete twist in the continuation of their history. Up to that point, we have next to no written record of the orcs unifying and assaulting another race with the intent on completely extinguishing them.
From that point on, yes, the orcs have repeatedly committed acts of extreme violence up to the Third War and the Alliance has all the reason to be afraid and traumatised. This is the time where their demonfueled funride was in full motion. From the beginning of the Third War, whatever accounts of the Orcs as unprovoked aggressors immediately also show an opposing voice. Grom attacking the humans and later the night elves are immediately opposed by Thrall and his underlings, respectively. Garrosh making plans to attack alliance bases in northrend immediately reprimanded by Saurfang, and eventually even Garrosh kicking his own officer off a cliff for killing civilians.
It's only since the end of Cata/beginning of MoP that we see the civilian murdering ruthlessness present, again, and that is largely explained due to an influx of people into the Horde's military who have a very distorted idea of what "war" means.
Then there's >>46478211 refuting your argument about Orgrim.
>>46478291
The only one who Kil'jaeden revealed himself to are Ner'zhul and Gul'dan.
Orcs didn't even know what a demon is.
Why would he believe they are something he don't even know?
Why would i need to when its clear that you never played or read anything about it?
So I have to waste my time when you spread your lies?
Ner'zhul rebelled against Kil'jaeden after he realized who Kil'jaeden is, and in BoD he worked entirely on his own.
Once again proving you never played WC2 or read any lore.
They are evil by nature but can be taught into good.
Just like good creature can be twisted into evil.
Why are you lying to my face so hard? hate losing huh?
What other can the Demons influence Doomhammer?
The Warlocks were all dead. There's was demon on Azeroth,
Seriously, tell me how.
Or all you have are shit 1 liners that proves you never read any lore?
>>46478473
>It's only since the end of Cata/beginning of MoP that we see the civilian murdering ruthlessness present, again, and that is largely explained due to an influx of people into the Horde's military who have a very distorted idea of what "war" means.
And also due to shit writers who didn't know how to properly set up a relatable aggressor to fuel the faction war, again.
>>46478482
>What other can the Demons influence Doomhammer?
>The Warlocks were all dead. There's was demon on Azeroth,
>Seriously, tell me how.
>Or all you have are shit 1 liners that proves you never read any lore?
They "Influenced" him through his concern for his people.
He had a bunch of rage fueled mockeries of his people to try to keep alive, and the survivors of stormwind had already alerted the remaining humans to their presence.
>>46478473
So while you made many reasoning for Orcs' genocidal rampage before WC3
They are still making genocidal rampage after Cata.
And this is after Thrall introduced human's idea of peace and coexistence to them.
And the ones who wants to do it are the young ones who are supposedly free of corruptions.
Now how is a bunch of Pure-brand pure-upbringing orcs want, and do commit genocide not evil?
I wonder if Blizzard stopped referring to Kil'jaeden and Sargeras as "daemon lords" after WC2 to distance themselves from Warhammer when they got popular
>>46478538
Again, HOW? They couldn't even contact Azeroth at the time , having no way to enter the world.
Demons are complete absent in WC2.
The Orcs were beyond demons' reach by then.
Doomhammer made his own judgement.
>>46478539
We get it Blizzard can't fucking write after the end of Wrath.
>>46478482
>Why are you lying to my face so hard? hate losing huh?
You should listen to your own advice and re-read the thread while you're at it.
Of course that won't give any effect if you're convinced that you're right and everyone else is wrong. You'd have to make effort to at least try to understand other viewpoints rather than take them as personal challenge.
>>46478578
Pandaria was GOAT
>>46478573
Their effect on his people left him trapped into a certain path if he didn't want the Horde to turn on itself in an orgy of violence and then get stomped when the Alliance formed and came down on their heads.
>>46478598
Fine, Blizzard can't write ORCS after Wrath.
>>46478573
>Doomhammer made his own judgement.
Based on war demons led him to, previous wars his people waged at behest of demons, being surrounded by people with similar experiences and having no frame of reference to compare to.
>>46478595
Of what?
Yes bz writing was shit after WotLK
but this is still official and I am saying in official Lore Orcs are evil.
If you think I am wrong you should prove I am using the official lore.
Or Just agree that BZ writing is shit and leave it as it is.
What other point is needed?
>>46478618
So he made his own decision, didn't him?
Better genocide more people than my crazed comrades killing each other.
>>46478657
so he chose the path himself under the circumstance.
There sure wasn't any demon telling him what to do.
>>46478771
>So he made his own decision, didn't him?
>Better genocide more people than my crazed comrades killing each other.
Do you not know what "Influence" means?
>>46478482
>They are evil by nature but can be taught into good.
>Just like good creature can be twisted into evil.
>Why are you lying to my face so hard? hate losing huh?
Considering Orcs and Draenei coexisted for a long-ass time (I can't recall if they ever mentioned how long it was between the Draenei arriving and the rise of the Horde, but it must have been a long time considering the Orcs have no memory of Oshu'gun not being a sacred site of their ancestors, and everybody adopting Draenor as the name of the world) without anybody trying to genocide anybody else, I don't think the Orcs are inherently evil.
They just come from a primitive tribal culture where one must frequently fight for survival, and thus they value martial strenght and are quick to take up arms against anythign perceived as a threat. Kil'jaeden took advantage of that to forge the Orcs from a bunch of clans into a coherent fighting force and direct them towards the perceived threat of the Draenei. And things went downhill from there.
The problem isn't so much that the Orcs are inhrerently predisposed to being genocidal maniacs, but that they're still mostly culturally stuck in a mentality where they consider martial power to be the answer to anything.
WC3-to early WoW era Orcs like Saurfang and Thrall knew the kind of bad shit that kind of additude leads to, and took efforts to rectify it (Thrall actively pursued diplomatic means, while Saurfang knows that sometimes not cleaving the skulls of everybody who opposes you is the better option).
The mag'har Orcs from Draenor, however are essentially directly uplifted tribals who are given military infrastructure while still having the mentality where the only solution to disputes between two factions is to bash a few skulls in until the other side capitulates. Of course that's going to end up badly.
I want to stick my dick in Jaina
>>46478866
> the capacity to have an effect on the character, development, or behavior of someone or something, or the effect itself.
> the power to shape policy or ensure favorable treatment from someone, especially through status, contacts, or wealth.
> a person or thing with the capacity or power to have an effect on someone or something.
What demon did to orcs do affect his decision but they were not influencing him at the time.
>>46478949
>The mag'har Orcs from Draenor, however are essentially directly uplifted tribals who are given military infrastructure while still having the mentality where the only solution to disputes between two factions is to bash a few skulls in until the other side capitulates. Of course that's going to end up badly.
they should have done something with this plotline other than "oh btw Garrosh and all of the mag'har are Hitler, go kill them." The dichotomy between the peaceful green orcs who know the horrors of war and the Mag'har and dark orcs that are still very warlike was cool
Does anyone like the burdens of shaohao?
>>46477345
>orc lovers are cucks
tell me something else i already knew
>>46478949
Thrall really didn't.
While he pursued diplomatic means, he was also glorifying people like Ogrim, Grom and Kargoth, who would all be super war criminals in our world.
Its one of his major fuck ups.
Mag'har orc is another problem with the writing.
They were supposedly taught about shamanism and the old ways instead of the maniac Horde ways, but still came out as blood-thirst kliling machines.
Interestingly this piece of writing is actually from WoTLK, not cata.
>All this bitching about Orcs being murderhobos and dun do nuttin' wrong
Ok, since Orcs apparently have a historical petulance for racial cleansing and are a liability when shit doesn't go their way, how does Saurfang (the new orc racial leader) fix this? Because if it wasn't for plot armor, the Alliance being held back by Blizzard with a Lawful Stupid, they would have finished the at least the orc race.
>>46479132
Saurfang cracks back on orgrim and grom worship hard. Promotes the tauren version of shamanism
>>46479038
Garrosh, Ishi, and that one Mag'har were the only three I can really recall being evil in the mag'har.
The WoD Horde are stupid.
>>46479132
>how does Saurfang (the new orc racial leader) fix this? Because if it wasn't for plot armor, the Alliance being held back by Blizzard with a Lawful Stupid, they would have finished the at least the orc race.
He fixes it the same way he fixes everything else, with judicious application of Cleave.
>>46478949
Really, what the Alliance should've done after Garrosh nuked Theramore would have been to do what USA did to Japan after WW2. Dismantle their army and keep an eye on them to ensure their culture moves past the whole "going to war is the only solution to disputes" mentality. The Orcs never really had a concept of large-scale diplomacy (sure, there probably were agreements between clans and such, but not an equivalent of different nations solving their conflicts with negotiations and treaties) on Draenor, so you pretty much have to change their culture to include that concept.
The funny thing is that the WC3 era Horde was definitely going to the right direction, but then they fucked it up by getting too caught up with trying to return to their roots, to the point where when they found a bunch of uncorrupted Orcs on Draenor they just took them in without doing anything to acclimate them into a post-tribal society and political climate, because being uncorrupted noble savages they surely can do no wrong. And unsuprisingly it turns out when you hand the guy who'se used to answering every potential threat with display of force the control of a full-scale army, the results aren't goign to be pretty no matter how uncorrupted he may be.
>>46479001
sauce?
>>46479132
Cleave anyone who disagree with him till they understand the meaning of peace.
>>46479132
honestly he should just lead them back to outland to live there in hell. plenty of demons and shit to fight endlessly
they dont really have a reason for being on azeroth
>>46479204
outland is a shithole though
>>46478573
>The Orcs were beyond demons' reach by then
Not entirely true. Gul'Dan was still alive and kicking and he had revived his Shadow Council as Death Knights, though hidden in human bodies. There's also a likely chance that, whatever warlocks were still around, now had to at least swear lip-service to Orgrim's cause because he needed himself some rank-and-file warcasters.
Apart from that, there was still the continuous effect of drinking Mannoroth's blood the first time around. The majority of orcs still carried a simmering lust for violence in them, which was likely prolonged due to open practise of the Fel among the Horde.
It's only after Gul'Dan dying and no more practising Warlocks in their vicinity that the orcs felt the eventual backlash. From that point on, most orcs were pretty much riddled with PTSD and feeling the burnout from a solid decade to two decades worth of being high on angry amphetamines.
>>46479188
>>46479164
the Mag'har weren't really evil per se, but they were the violent element driving Horde foreign policy and Garrosh specifically inviting the Dragonmaw and Blackrock clans into the Horde helped drive things along
>>46479001
That is some delicious booty right there
>>46479132
Saurfang is new orcboss? Sauce plox
>>46479355
the new cheevos m8
>>46479322
I really only remember Garrosh and one or two other aggressive Mag'har.
>>46479355
>>46479132
>Saurfang is new orcboss? Sauce plox
http://legion.wowhead.com/achievement=610/orgrimmar-offensive
He's also the City Raid boss for Orgrimmar now.
>>46479394
Garrosh was made warchief because he was popular among the young Mag'har.
Most of them are violent.
>>46479394
>I really only remember Garrosh and one or two other aggressive Mag'har.
there weren't really that many Mag'har NPCs that I remember outside of Outland, but most of the ones I do remember were pretty violent. Garrosh, Cromush, the dude from STM
>>46479191
>Cleave anyone who disagree with him till they understand the meaning of peace.
more like pieces
I might be late.
But you guys should read this.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1974035-Spoilers!-Illidan-Novel
>O-orcs r gud
they're literally worse than the fucking SCOURGE.
they're literally more stupid than the player DK.
they're literally more bloodthirsty than the player DH.
they're literally one fucking step behind becoming demons and fucking off into the nether for eternal war under sargeras' command.
>>46479596
we know. I love how hardcore blizzard fans are spinning it like
>the narrator is not reliable
>illidan is mad so its all a pretend joke.
People go to ebin lengths to make themselves feel better.
>>46479606
>they're literally worse than the fucking SCOURGE.
>they're literally more stupid than the player DK.
invented by orcs, don't be jealous they're better at magic than you
>>46479619
>>46479596
>2016
>People still fucking take Warcraft lore seriously
If you didn't stop taking it seriously when pandas where canonized (they're a fucking april fool's joke) you've living your life incorrectly.
>>46479638
Once the legion is taken care of, and the old gods, orcs are next.
Enough about Orcs let's talk about Trolls and how shitty their degenerate mutated cousins are.(Elfs)
>>46479649
Pandaren were executed so well that they fit into warcraft easily.
Burdens of Shaohao was GOAT
>>46479649
Kids really need to stop posting on 4chan
http://classic.battle.net/war3/neutral/pandarenbrewmaster.shtml
>>46479697
WE WUZ EMPERORS.
WE NEVAH FOGGETWE GONNA BURRY YOU 'ERE
>>46479697
Darkspear genocide when
>>46479596
I like it.
>>46479720
>Genocide the only race that hasn't lost their way yet
Please
>>46479708
>l-le kiddos!!1
>Post brewmaster
>Doesn't know where brewmaster comes from
ralphi pls go?
Here is how it went:
>Brewmaster is added in EASTER EGGS because the main artist is nick named panda (because he's big, but not scary, like a panda), first picture is a samurai looking dude he made for himselfand his daughter, and people did really like it
>In an april fools they say they're adding pandas as a joke
>Small % of the game population (the extremely autistic kind) thinks this is not a joke
>Eventually, via massive bitching they get an expansion, which is the most polarizing expansion and handled pretty horribly getting introduced to (although once in it's pretty cool)
>To this day, this autistical % of people plus the most horrible human beings (even worse than fucking furries and that's saying something) defend pandas fervently without knowing where they do come from
There, a crash fucking course.
>>46479699
>Pandaren
>Well executed
Literally only 1 easter egg joke is not well executed senpai, there should've been some SPOOKYYYY AND MYSTERIOUS WRECKAGE somewhere in vash'jir or similar post-cata, that would have made them much less polarizing.
>>46479697
Matter of fact the only gripe I have with the troll-elf connection is that Darktrolls went from "Most retarded and possibly not even sapient of all trolls" to "Superduper spiritual" in the Chronicles.
Apart from that, I just fucking love it, especially if we could just focus a little more on how Night Elves are technically just pretty trolls.
Also Tusks should be a sign of a berserker and not troll standard.
>>46479697
>Der der, iz not incest
>>46479787
>>>46479699 (You)
>>Pandaren
>>Well executed
>Literally only 1 easter egg joke is not well executed senpai, there should've been some SPOOKYYYY AND MYSTERIOUS WRECKAGE somewhere in vash'jir or similar post-cata, that would have made them much less polarizing.
Pandaria was proof that blizzard had the chops to make actual new content that was awesome to explore and fit into warcraft perfectly.
>>46479787
...You completely skipped the inclusion of
Chen Stormstout in TFT.
>>46479827
>Matter of fact the only gripe I have with the troll-elf connection is that Darktrolls went from "Most retarded and possibly not even sapient of all trolls" to "Superduper spiritual" in the Chronicles.
Where did they say the Dark Trolls were stupid? They were smart enough to join in the defense of Hyjal (And if it wasn't for the RoC rule that only heroes could Hire mercs I'd have used them even more than I already do.
I know in Cata they showed an art idea for Dark Trolls that was basically a Dire Troll but that's about it.
>>46479720
Fuck you, the Darkspears are one of the only decent races/tribes left.
>>46479838
Was pretty shitty handled still senpai, you have to admit having seen in the distance a misty outline of "something" while in your trip to vash'jir would've cool, just a misty mass nothing special.
Or kept chen's mission in the barrens.
>>46479861
>talk about eastern egg
>What chen fucking is.
jesus fuck ralph just give yourself a shotgun mouthwash.
>>46479132
Kill any dumb motherfucker who even utters a word about "revenge", "going to war" or "taking what is rightfully ours".
Kill every single orcish Warlock right here, right now.
Tell the Mag'har to take the new ways, or fuck off back to Draenor.
Cleave anyone who disagrees.
The Orcs cannot be reformed by peaceful means and time. Thrall had the right ideas, but it would take forever and the Orcs just don't have the time. If they want to be beaten into shape, beat them into shape.
>Come to thread because comfy
>Ralph is here
Annndddd thread ruined, everyone leave while you can escape the 100% greek obese autismo.
>>46479787
>J-just an Easter egg!!!
Chen was part of Rexxars campaign his race even gets its own lore and his visit to durotar is also made into a quest in WoW
>N-no only autistic kids caused this to happen!!!I'm not 14 and don't know what I'm talking about!!! PLEASE BELIVE ME!!!!
>>46479864
I'm assuming she's well versed in fondling dark spears?
>>46479900
>Kill every single orcish right here, right now.
ftfy.
Nothing good comes out of that shit. EVER.
>>46479885
>Was pretty shitty handled still senpai, you have to admit having seen in the distance a misty outline of "something" while in your trip to vash'jir would've cool, just a misty mass nothing special.
>Or kept chen's mission in the barrens.
Pandaria as a whole was top notch. They fucked up in blowing theramore.
>>46479787
While the Pandaren Brewmaster was initially an easter egg in WC3 (there's a whole bunch of panda easter eggs, actually, including the Demonhunter's glaives having panda faces on them), they made one into a canon character as early as the Rise of the Horde campaign (or whatver it's called; the one with Rexxar), where Chen Stormstout has a minor role, so Pandaren were already a canon thing before MoP. And MoP was a pretty good expansion despite being centered around a race initially added into the lore as an injoke.
>>46479905
You're a fucking idiot aren't you ralph?
>>>/pol/
>>46479885
>>talk about eastern egg
>>What chen fucking is.
>jesus fuck ralph just give yourself a shotgun mouthwash.
The easter egg was the Pandaren Relaxation Zone in RoC, and the Pandaren in the Bloodelf Campaign.
Chen was a full character with voicework that stayed with the party for the entire campaign.
>>46479905
>Chen was part of Rexxars campaign his race even gets its own lore and his visit to durotar is also made into a quest in WoW
You can do the campaign without ever meeting chen.
>>46479940
Chen was completely optional though.
>>46476580
hey wanan hear a warcraft joke?
>tyrande
>>46479970
Go away
>>46479001
I want todateAlexstrasza!
>>46479988
>ywn be the consort that gets mind controlled by the Dragonmaw into raping her all day every day
>>46479961
>>Chen was part of Rexxars campaign his race even gets its own lore and his visit to durotar is also made into a quest in WoW
>You can do the campaign without ever meeting chen.
You can also do it without ever finding the human logging camp in Thunder Ridge, (The second thunder ridge quest is entirely optional) being opional hardly means it doesn't exist.
>>46479977
>we immortal and know we have a millions of years to prepare to the arrival of the legion, a very powerful enemy
>i will put all man to sleep and do fuck all XD
>no way, lets ignore natural selection and help those furbolgs, looks like the corrupt themselfs and lost half of theyr tribe again, yay nature!
>>46480020
The quest with the outland arena was also optional. Does that mean the outland arena was also done canonically by Rexxar?
>>46480006
I don't want to rape her, I want to listen to her doubts, pat her on the head and tell her everything will be alright
>>46480047
>pat her on the head
And then slowly put your dick in her mouth while holding herhandsright?
>>46480039
I am not sure you understand how natural selection works anon
And the price for immortality was that druids had to be in the dream fighting the emerald nightmare.
>>46480064only if she's into it
>>46480043
Depends was it mentioned in later works? You know like Chen Stormstout? and the Pandaren? and Pandaria?
While now non-canon, Chris Metzen wrote the lore for Pandaren in the RPG right?
>>46479900
>Don't have the time
That is the exact problem. Thrall's big push was an isolationist move. "Let's just leave and forget about the Eastern Kingdoms, and do our own shit all by our lonesome." And in the kind of isolation he was expecting, his methods would have worked--on the long term, maybe, but ultimately that would probably be better for orcish culture anyway; rapid change is always more stressful than gradual change.
Except the Eastern Kingdoms came and found them before they had had even a decade to develop. It's almost tragic; a generation living next door to a bunch of humans that aren't actually trying to kill them and that everyone remembers fighting alongside at Hyjal would have done wonders, and it just never gets the chance to happen.
>>46480079
doesn't change the fact that it was initially a joke.
>>46480043
The outland arena? Maybe. It was near a highborn ruin full of demons(Which sadly never made it into WoW) who could have ventured out and opened the portal.
However it lacked voicework, Chen and Rexxar's interactions had full voicework.
>>46480069
>not understanding how natural selection works
>fighting the emerald nightmare
>also, that's somehow more importnat than defend the planet from destruction
>>46480144
>natural selection means the weak perish while the strong survive :DDD
>not realizing that the most adaptable or the species more suited to their environmental niche survives, and a change in ecological variable would alter the game drastically.
>Protect azeroth.
>titans chimp out and activate the emerald dream
>its now the nightmare and azeroth is fully old god corrupted.
Nice rationality there
>>46480126
Chen had 3 odd bits of dialog. Once when you receive the quest, once when you end it, and once when he wants to follow you around.
>>46480144
I rather suspect that keeping dangerous magical gribblies from overwhelming the realm that is somehow connected to all of nature is actually pretty important in terms of defending Azeroth from destruction.
>>46479619
My spin is that nothing the Elder Naaru told him is a lie, but it wasn't exactly the full truth either. It was saying something in a nice way, but if you cut out the niceness it's not very pretty.
It's literally telling Illidan that he'll be transformed into a tool for their cause and a vessel for their power, stripped of something he values in the process, and won't be given any choice in the matter. It doesn't matter whatever he was before, because when it's through with him he'll be its Champion of the Light.
It's just saying it in a way that sounds good.
>>46480039
>hey look, humans and works fighting against my sworn enemies, the undead and demons
>i should kill those fucking inhuman mongrels outsiders!! the demons can wait, we can take them, they no match for our arrows.
>also build a wall and make tauren pay for it
>>46480252
>they start off by felling the forest, drinking demon blood and slaughtering the demigod of the forest
>we should totally welcome them into the forest and let them cut all the trees.
>>46480237
Fuck off krakhed.
>>46480209
>would alter the game drastically.
>muh gameplay issues and bulancing is a perfect valid excuse to being a baka
Because screw logic,consistency and such, we gotta save those cute little bearpeople amiright? What would be the campaing without them! [spoilers] better
>rolling down the thread
>'guize, orcs r evul, 'ther races r retarded/degenerate, we humans de best, truff is it XDDD'
>mfw
The cancer is slowly creeping on these threads, and you guys are like, basking on it.
>>46480306
what? there were plenty of bear people in the forest who fought during the final battle. They protected ashenvale against orc marauders, and were generally steadfast allies of the nightelves.
>>46480277
Thrall should have sentenced the entire Warsong Clan to death for treason in the first place.
Any who were still alive after Hyjal should have been executed, or sent to die in battle against demons.
Would have been a strong show of zero tolerance of demon bullshit within the Horde and maybe then the Tauren would have had a chance to talk the Nelvesinto cooperation.
>>46480277
>hey look, someone just arrived in my forest, the best way to greet them is to attack.
>talk? pffffff why would i ever interact with those lesser races? PURPLE WAIFU MASTERRACE!
>those red ones? green blue and pink? dunno m9 they all look the same to me. yeah aura dmg type and all dat shit
>>46480308
warcraft orcs are unapologetically revelling in the death and suffering they cause because they are strong but at the same time are noble warriors who are misled and did nothing wrong. This rubs everyone the wrong way.
>>46480380
>we should totally trust these outsiders
>even though they are literally green from fel taint, have destroyed huge sections of the forest and have killed the guardian of the forest.
>#notallorcs
>>46480347
>Thrall should have sentenced the entire Warsong Clan to death for treason in the first place.
this. He should have had anyone that partook in Mannoroth's blood organized into penal battallions and marched to their death at Hyjal, then spread any survivors across Horde territory so they could never reform the Warsong.
But muh daddy issues and muh you saved us all old friend
You guys are making me realize how Nelfs are even more intolerant than garithos.>implying Garithos is wrong
So if Illidan is the prophesied champion of the Light, where does that leave Anduin?
>>46480434
BLACKED DRAGONFLIGHTED
>>46480431
Being hyper-isolationist will do that to you.
>>46480434
Illidan is A prophesied Champion of the Light, backed by a Naaru who may well be unaffiliated with the Sha'tar that are revered by the Draenei.
>>46480408
The night elves had no way of knowing the green was a fel taint thing, they'v never seen a non-green orc and plenty of other creatures are green naturally, like forest trolls for example.
Furthermore, the killing the demigod thing happened AFTER the elves had already attacked the Warsong once.
I'm not saying htey should have blindly trusted outsiders with the keys to the world tree, but even a "leave the forest or we'll shoot you full of arrows" would have been better than just opening with the arrows.
>>46480408
And then killed the Demons.
And then anyway, what about those pink guys? Why kill them? All of them are fighting the Undead and Demons, after all.
>>46480408
>solve problems with talking?nah that's for nerds, lets just leeroy
>so what if they much stronger, have a hero, and we also fighting demons? we got arrows and trees.
>the enemy of my enemy still my enemy (true)
>even temporary alliances to defeat a much stronger foe, who they also fighting against, is out of question. i'm the bitch priest i can handle war agains all of them at same time!
>>46480415
Fucking THIS! makes me ree. that's the kind of shit you would expect from a woman!
>>46480498
>naturally green.
The orcs oozed demonic influence. They come to the forest and harvest a metric shit ton of lumber and destroy sections of ashenvale. Then Cenarius arrives to drive them out, and the orcs kill him by drinking the blood of mannoroth again.
>>46480504
>then killed the demons
after becoming their patsy and killing the demigod who protected the forests. If cenarius was alive healing the land would be childs play, but orcs literally ruined that, and humans were allied with them. If you are allied with the fel infested monsters that killed the forest god and tore down the trees, you are gonna get shot.
>>46480511
>lets try diplomacy with the people that are blatantly practicing arcane magic and have demon taint etched upon them and are making for the world tree.
>I am sure they mean well.
>>46480343
>there were plenty of bear people in the forest who fought during the final battle.
>They protected ashenvale against orc marauders
>generally steadfast allies of the nightelves
>>46480498
>The night elves had no way of knowing the green was a fel taint thing, they'v never seen a non-green orc and plenty of other creatures are green naturally, like forest trolls for example.
They very likely sensed the taint and saw them cutting trees without permission.
Cenarius could smell the fel taint, and several elves have similar abilities.
>>46480415
They were facing death anyway, and Grom DID burn out not just the second dose of blood but also the original lethargy/fury that was assailing all the other Orcs, that bought clemency.
And we don't knwo who did and didn't get sent to the front against the Legion.
>>46480504
>And then anyway, what about those pink guys? Why kill them? All of them are fighting the Undead and Demons, after all.
They are fighting alongside the Orcs.
And the killing of Demons was mostly on the barrens side of the border.
>>46480623
What does fel taint even smell like? Patchouli?
>>46480619
>The first time you meet them they are chilling in their forest groves.
>the orcs come up to them while cutting trees and kill them so that they can cut more trees
>the goblin literally tells them that the furbolgs don't allow them to cut trees.
>Tyrande meets the shaman who tells her that there is corruption afoot and they are going deeper into the forest to hide from it
>anon responds by posting a fel tainted frog
>>46480608
It didn't even take 10 years for Cenarius to respawn. That's not even a blink in the Lifespan of a Night Elf.
Did he never tall anybody he could do that?
>>46480347
>Putting a whole clan's worth of able-bodied orcs to the axe
>When we have at least one account of them objecting to the renewal of the taint, indicating they'd never ever attempt another demon pact, again
>In the middle of founding and constructing a nation complete with capital city in the middle of the desert from virtually nothing
It was stupid putting the Warsong back into Ashenvale when they're much better suited patrolling Durotar and wrecking some Quillboars. But disbanding ment much more than just eliminating an organisation, it also ment destroying about the last remnant of original orcish tribal culture. Thrall wanted to bring his people back around, so with each murdered Warsong, another source of information would be lost forever.
His daddy issues probably played into this, as well, I admit that. However there are much more sensible reasons behind not immediately flattenning the Warsong.
>>46480608
>>46480652
like unwashed neckbeards
>>46480669
That was something asspulled by blizzard because of
>le epic experience
>>46480669
He only respawned so fast because of the Ragnaros summoning weakening dimensional barriers.
And it was a full ten years. 4 from WC3 to Vanilla 2 from Vanilla to BC, 2 from BC to Wrath, 2 from Wrath to Cata.
>>46479767
Pity they removed the VooDoo mask from the Shadowhunter in the final version of TFT.
Those masks are rad.
>>46480623
>and Grom DID burn out not just the second dose of blood but also the original lethargy/fury that was assailing all the other Orcs, that bought clemency.
the Warsong embodied the feral nigger stereotype of orcs that everyone use to hate on the Horde in general, Grom wasn't enough, they had to be completely destroyed and scattered to the wind or else they just would have started a war again somewhere else
>And we don't knwo who did and didn't get sent to the front against the Legion.
it should have been organized so that the brunt of the Legion assault was taken by the Warsongs, forcing them to either die or kill enough demons to help turn them back
>>46480664
>imply falsehood
>i laugh at you
>changes the point
Sorry i have no orcs laughting images.
>>46479697
>tfw Vol'jin comes back from doing whatever and does a sick 360noscope shot on Sylvanas and goes back doingnothing at all on the throne because blizzard
Screencap this because it will happen and if it won't, i'll get good with SFM
>>46480753
The furbolgs were known as upstanding residents of the forest who were dryad tier in helping the night elves keep balance.
I am sorry your shitty noble savage faction took a big fat shit all over the forest and chimped out as they are wont to.
Daily reminder that The Great Stache can solo vari and shitvanas whitout dropping below half HP.
>>46480795
>The furbolgs were known as upstanding residents of the forest who were dryad tier in helping the night elves keep balance.
This one is worth a anime one.
>>46480608
At no point in WC3 does any night elf observing any orc ever remark on them "oozing demonic taint", the chief complaint Tyrande has about thenm when she sees them for the first time is that they are "outlanders". And when Tyrande's owl scout spies on Duke Lionheart's camp, she overhears them all literally talking about hunting down the rest of the demons.
Turning green is not a common property of demonic corruption, that shit only happens to orcs. Corrupted night elves, for example, turn into satyrs or end up looking like Illidan.
When the night elves first encounter the orcs, they have not yet allied with the humans and are NOT using arcane magic. They are cutting down the forest, but they have not cut down "a metric shit ton" until After being attacked once. Likewise, they do not re-mannoroth until AFTER being attacked by Cenarius.
Furthermore, the orcs demonic influence is infinitesimal by the time they get to Ashenvale-- that's what the lethargy IS, it's the demon-juice running the fuck out. Grom drinks the blood to power back up because the demon influence that would let him win against Cenarius is almost gone and he's a fucking addict for it and thinks he needs to recharge. And that shit doesn't happen until, again, AFTER the night elves attack once. Do you think a former smoker will continue to smell like smoke ten years after he quit, even though his fingers are still yellow and he'd love a puff? You're just making shit up with your "oozing demonic taint", asshole.
>>46480823
"Lol furbolgs practically corrupt themselves" wasn't even a thing till WoW.
>>46480826
>that's what the lethargy IS, it's the demon-juice running the fuck out.
Not exactly, it's just a different form of demon corruption, lethargy instead of Rage.
>>46480857
True, but they did already show a tendency to be at the shit end of the stick when it came to them being exposed to demonstuff
>>46480903
The lethargy was the aftermath of rage, but still an effect of a lingering corruption, that is true.
>>46480826
>the orcs dindu nuffin: the post
Firstly Satyrs are a specific ritual form of corruption of the night elves. Fel night elves present in Legion show them oozing green
Cenarius literally senses them off the orcs when he comes in to investigate. By then the warsong have cut down a sizable portion of the forest that cenarius regenerates. The orcs respond by drinking mannoroth's blood and killing him.
When tyrande sees them, she sees pinkskins and greenskins entering the forests under her command and redoing the entire thing they were doing previously. Namely cutting down the forest. The next time she meets the alliance or the horde is when they are in a free for all against the legion. After malfurion remarks that they can ally with them she gives a very good reason why they shouldn't ally with the Horde and the alliance.
The orc's demonic influence was enough to be sensed by cenarius and the later drinking of blood sealed it. For all intents and purposes, they were demonic allies that had killed the most powerful weapon the night elves had and had made things massively simpler for the legion.
Face it, your precious orcs are always fel tainted. thats why they have green skin
>>46480903
No, it's a spiritual absence. The orcs had a connection to the spirits, and then they drank the demon juice and it burned out that piece of them and filled the hole with demonic berserker rage. Then the rage runs out and they just have a hole.
Illidan x Maiev when?
playing with undead shoul be like pic.
instead its is more like
>right click for hot undead action
or aboms and draks :^)
Just a reminder that warcraft is shit and only normies take it into consideration.
>>46481015
great post friendo
>>46480688
>>In the middle of founding and constructing a nation complete with capital city in the middle of the desert from virtually nothing
This is EXACTLY why he had to completely dissolve the Warsong Clan. Let them all die gloriously in battle against demons and kill everyone who is too scared to do that.
The Orcs are not an enlightened society. Even on the upswing, they are still fucking barbarians. They TRY to build a civilization, but they are not there yet. Moral, ethics or even fucking basic schooling are not a fucking thing. Maybe in the future, but not right now.
That means you have to stomp the necks of any fucktards that drag the whole operation back down. What kind of signal does kinda-forgiving the Warsong send to all the other Orcs? That it's okay to drink demon blood and murder people again, as long as you apologize afterwards? Fuck no, kill them and send a message to your own people that this shit will not be tollerate fullstop.
This is how we ended up with Orc Hitler. If Garrosh had been told that Grom was a turbofag that got his entire clan killed, but did one good thing by killing Mannoroth at the very last, we'd never had to put up with this shit.
>it also ment destroying about the last remnant of original orcish tribal culture
Clan wanted to disband the Clans. He fucking abolished them.
The Warsong had absolutely zero of value to give for bringing the Orcs around. Replay WC3, Grom is a total cunt before drinking demon juice and even get's called out for it by Thrall.
Man, when i tought your shitposting couldn't get any worse.
Tyrande is a shit btw
>>46481034
>friendo
>>46481015
>friendo
>>46481078
Thank you Knaak. Now why don't you write about the awesome adventures of you totally-not-a-self-insert redhead wizard with a hot elf wife.
Oh wait :^)
>>46481125
>Knaak
Who?
>>46481166
oh god.
>>46481142
>friendo
kek
>>46481142
When you post it.hurry up!
>>46480964
>>46480964
Fuck you, I'm not saying they did nothing, I'm saying the night elves also contributed to the conflict. Grom fucked up by drinking the demon blood a second time, but the elves fucked up by being shoot-on-sight to foreigners, and if they hadn't it probably wouldn't have gotten that far.
>Cenarius: Who dares defile this ancient land? Who dares the wrath of Cenarius
and the night elves?
>Cenarius: Let battle be joined!
>Cenarius: Now, my warriors, cleanse these brutes from the wilds! I will watch
over you from the forest
Cenarius never once mentions them being demonic.
As for satyrs being a specific ritual, that's a WoW retcon. In WC3, Furion just says "Oh no, they've already become corrupted" when he sees satyr where he expect night elves.
And fel energy may be a green radiance, but orcs don't give off green light, they just have green skin, like any number of other creatures.
>>46481166
An exceptionally mediocre writer responsible for most of the Dragonflight lore and some Nightelf story rewrites.
I wish opinionated autists to leave.
No wait, that would mean I have to leave as well...
I wish opinionated autists to calm down
>>46481300
>wizard with a hot elf wife
Are they erotic? any recommendations?
>>46481280
They shot the orcs because they were defiling the forest. They were absolutely in the right.
also nice selective reading
>IconSmall Cenarius.gif Cenarius: You cannot defeat me, I am the heart of the land!
>IconSmall Cenarius.gif Cenarius: I defeated your kind in ages past and I shall do so again!
>IconSmall Cenarius.gif Cenarius: Demon Spawned Wretches, you will all die!
post blood drinking
>IconSmall Cenarius.gif Cenarius: The demons did their job well. You creatures are as reckless and bloodthirsty as they ever were!
>IconSmall FelOrc Male.gif Grom Hellscream: We orcs are free, demigod!
>IconSmall Cenarius.gif Cenarius: Is that what you tell yourself? Despite what you may believe, you are no better than the malignant bile that flows through your veins.
>>46481125
I liked Rhonin. If I was writing a self-insert, he'd be pretty much the same so he grew on me.
RIP ginger archmage.I still wonder what made Blizzard so mad at him or Knaak that they had him eat the retcon bomb
I really hate all these morality related bullshit posts.
>>46481280
>As for satyrs being a specific ritual, that's a WoW retcon. In WC3, Furion just says "Oh no, they've already become corrupted" when he sees satyr where he expect night elves.
No, he says "Oh no they've been corrupted" when he sees the corrupted ancients and treants, when the Satyr show up he spits on them as ancient enemies.
>>46481280
>Cenarius never once mentions them being demonic.
I haven't tried going on the offensive without the demon blood in a long time, so I don't remember if he mocks the Orcs as demon spawned wretches even before they drink.
>>46481352
Hrm? A wizard called Rhonin was banging one of the Windrunner sisters and had twins with her. Then he got manabombed at Theramore after his gambit to make both sides talk it out failed.
>>46481065
I'm assuming you wanted to say "Thrall wanted to disband the clans".
I've never heard of this, to be honest. Could you direct me to your source?
I mean to some degree, I could understand that. Clan-mentality is counter productive to establishing a national identity.
On the other hand, Thrall wanted the orcs to return to their roots. How would abolishing the very core of their ancient culture be in any way helpful to that goal?
So I hope you understand my doubt, but I do see a technical point.
As for your first point, I disagree. You have to deal out punishments, but death is not an option. If their culture has no value, fine, dissolve and disperse the Warsong orcs, but they're still labour force.
And I completely agree with Garrosh. Thrall messed up with telling the story. I never understood how Grom was played up like that.
He did some awesome stuff, mind you, and his memorial is justified, but telling Garrosh that his dad "dindu nuffin" is outright wrong.
>>46481280
Didn't he mean the treants and trees all around the satyrs?
So, Whispers of the Old Gods for Hearthstone has a lot of art for creatures that have never been shown in-game.
What do you think the chances are that these are based on concept art for later Old God patches or the Void expansion?
>>46481441
I could see them taking cues from HS
>>46481441
>Illithid meets Hydralisk
By the Light how horrifying.
>>46481363
It was a nice touch
Cenarius was entirely reasonable, he had no reason to assume that the orcs were anything but demons hellbent on destruction as the demons he fought in the past were. Considering everything he knew it was entirely reasonable for him to choose to attack them.
And yet he was wrong, and if he had refrained, he would have lived and the night elves would have had more allies and forces to fight the Burning Legion when it did come
>>46481363
Fair enough. Those lines are not in the copy of the script I found, but it might be because they're triggered during gameplay rather than during a timed cinematic.
> I defeated your kind in ages past and I shall do so again!
seems off, though. Orcs never arrived on Kalimdor in the first or second wars, so just when does Cenarius think he defeated them?
Anyway, if Cenarius can sense their lingering taint, the rest of the elves certainly can't, or Tyrande would have mentioned it sooner.
(I know you'll accuse me of some kind of doublethink, so here is the literal script I found, without thsoe lines: http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/919870-warcraft-iii-battlechest/faqs/38456). Usually the warcraft wiki is more helpful and complete, but the entry on that mission has no dialogue at all, oddly enough.)
>>46480434
Sorry, where did this come from?
>>46480434
*A* Prophesized champion of the light.
And he may not be literally infused with the Holy Light when he fights, that may have been a metaphor for what team he's going to be fighting on.
>>46481532
well they came into the forest and wantonly destroyed large parts of it out of nowhere and were fel tainted. Pretty easy to connect the dots from there.
And wanting a loose gasket like grom at your side is unnecessary. I mean, Archimonde wanted cenarius dead before starting the invasion proper.
>>46481557
The new Illidan novel. According to the book, Illidan literally did nothing wrong, especially throughout TBC. Furthermore, an elder Naaru showed him a vision that he is a prophesized champion of the Light and must lead the charge against the Void, the true enemy.
>>46481417
>Didn't he mean the treants and trees all around the satyrs?
I don't think so. They're specifically looking for a settlement of night elves, right? Then they see the corrupted stuff and he says his line. I took it to mean that the whole settlement, including the trees and people, had been corrupted. The satyrs are "ancient enemies" like >>46481393 says, but before they were corrupted they were the allies he was specifically looking for.
>>46481532
>the night elves would have had more allies and forces to fight the Burning Legion when it did come
Not exactly worth much given Archimonde's armor and damage type.
>>46481551
use the gamepedia wiki. wowwiki is trash.
He calls them demonkind because thats what they are. fel infused murderhobos
>>46481065
Not that anon, but I did replay recently WCIII and TFT.
Grom is there an Orc Spiritual Successor to Leeroy Jenkins and Axe-happy arse that attacks the humans though Thrall told him not to. Thrall, due to what Grom did, sends him North to Ashenvale in hopes that he won't kill anyone or anything...and then NElves happened.
>Grom's ordered to build a camp.
>NElves attack because their hippie senses got triggered because the Warsong Clan was cutting the trees.
>To be frank the Orcs didn't see any value apart of the fact that the trees were...trees to them. This included the Ancient Trees of Life they were cutting down.
>To the NElves, the trees were sacred and especially the Ancient Trees of Life. That's why they were pissed.
>Orcs get attacked by the NElves. From their P.O.V. the NElves attacked without warning, while NElves attacked because some green cunts were cutting down their forest.
>Cenarius waltzes in and then all hell is loose, Chimeras appear and trees start fighting back.
>Cenarius yells that the Orcs are corrupted demon wretches.
>Grom tells him they are free, yet due to NElves increasing their attacks, the Warsong clan is drawn to the Corrupt Well and turned into Fel Orcs. To be precise, Cenarius was not so wrong. The Orcs may have returned to their shamanistic traditions, but the pact with Mannoroth was still around.
>Grom goes full STFAXETOTHEFACE after Cenarius mocks him for his freedom.
>Mannoroth shuts Grom up and tells him he's still his fuckboy.
As you can see, this situation was...quite wonky.
>>46481417
Weren't those roots as in shamanistic roots?
>>46481551
Well the blood pact with Mannoroth was still actual until Grom axed the Pit Lord.
>>46481606
They would have had Cenarius
>>46481589
Exactly my point, the dots were blatantly obvious, Cenarius followed them, and in doing so, made a terrible mistake that cost him his life.
Also, having Grom on your side is better than having him on their side, he may be a loose gasket, but he's still rather terrifying on the battlefield, he did manage to kill Cenarius and Mannoroth, after all
>>46481450
Interesting detail about the card is that it's got about three times the stats of the Old God cards, and is the strongest card in the game.
I sure as hell hope we see shit like this if we're going to have the Army of the Light fighting against the legions of the Void in a later expansion.
>>46481656
>Also, having Grom on your side is better than having him on their side, he may be a loose gasket, but he's still rather terrifying on the battlefield, he did manage to kill Cenarius and Mannoroth, after all
Grom would be better off dead. He was too unstable and ultimately useless. All he managed to do in the story was kill the most powerful hero on the blue side
>>46481656
>Cenarius
Point. I keep forgetting that Cenarius also has the divine/chaos stat combo.
>>46481351
>I wish opinionated autists to calm down
But them it wouldn't be /tg/.
Boy you gonna get impressed when you insult a super autist and he damage controls you to hell.
>>46481679
Well yeah, he was a dumbass who, unlike pretty much all the other orcish 2nd war veterans, was unrepentant and learned nothing from his own mistakes.
Unfortunately, he was also very hard to kill
>>46481606
>>46481656
He's saying Cenarius couldn't hurt Archimonde's divine armor with his damage but Archimonde could hurt cenarius's divine armor with his Chaos damage.
>>46481709
I thought Cenarius was divine/Normal, not Divine/Chaos.
>>46481740
he should have been executed during the tutorial mission desu. would have saved a lot of trouble.
>>46476781
>The Orcs wiped out 80% of draenei's population, most of them before any demonic corruption.
You keep using that number, but that seems like an extremely excessive estimate.
>Look it up.
Oh, what, seriously? That's true? What the fuck? How the hell could the orcs do that much damage to a race of borderline demi-gods, and how the hell could they possibly forgive them for that? That's even worse than what the orcs did to humans.
Either that, or that's just writers being bad with numbers, which isn't uncommon.
>>46481762
Other than Thrall dying to Mannaroth.
>>46481762
Would have been nice, unfortunately Thrall's character flaw is his hero worship of the monsters of the 2nd war, so that would have never happened
>>46481786
the naaru told them to forgive the orcs because the army of light needs the horde as they killed off 80% of the draenei populace.
and then they do it.
>>46481795
good riddance
Goel was a mistake.
>>46481866
I'm going to stop here before I start sperging out about a work of fiction.
>>46481866
This is silly. The naaru are silly. Blizzard writers, stop being silly.
>>46481928
>>46481928
thats literally the logic the time dragons and velen use.
Remember when Yrel was supposed to be Maraad's sister or lover? Which is why he was so desperate to go back to draenor in the first place? So he could save her? Remember how he died?
>>46481795
It was also Grom's idea to take the Humans' ships in order to escape. Not that someone else couldn't have come up with that idea, but still.
>>46481866
Nooo. The Draenei did not forgive the Orcs. They hate the Orcs. Especially the Lost Ones who were the original Draenei in TFT. The latter kill Orcs on sight.
>>46482021
heh, if the naaru say breed with the orcs, the space goat ladies will say "how many babies"
>>46482075
Dude, yer pushing this too far now.
If it wasn't for Blizzard's writing, then this situation would've been far different.
>>46482075
Enough for them to breed with a significant number of humans and produce the true master race.
>>46481986
>Remember how he died?
Forgetting that paladins have more than one bubble spell in their arsenal?
