Trove: https://mega.nz/#F!3FcAQaTZ!BkCA0bzsQGmA2GNRUZlxzg!jJtCmTLA
Stuff & Shit: http://pastebin.com/FQJx2wsC
What are your personal house-rules/system hacks? Do your players approve or piss and moan?
>>46467135
I have a few that I have outlined but the big ones are
1 - If using a shield/off-hand weapon and your character takes max damage from a melee attack you can break the shield (rendering it useless) for half damage
2 - Max health at 1st level
3 - No alignment, just don't be a dick
I'm thinking about adding some skills to LotFP that aren't there.
1. Medicine: roll under and heal that many pips of HP. if you roll over, 1d4 damage to patient.
2. Speech (CHA mod adds pips): persuade/intimidate/bribe/haggle.
3. Arcana (WIS modifier adds pips): know when items are magic.
4. Appraise: know items sp value.
i know that Speech kinda goes against the books idea of RPing the character successfully enough to do those things, but for my players, i think it's a good choice.
Posting an updated version of the Castles & Crusades attribute generation method I was working on in last thread. The scores were coming out too high, so I cut the number of dice you roll. I also changed it so that you add your racial adjustment to the final attribute scores rather than the raw numbers.
>>46467972
I'm not super familiar with LotFP, but those sound good to me.
>>46467135
I'm inconsistent, but I like for people not to be permanently screwed over by bad characteristic rolls. So hit points are either set (4 hit points per level rather than a d6), or rolled from scratch at every level (you can keep the old value, if it was higher). Similarly, I like to use some stat generation method that gives everybody roughly equivalent scores--drawing cards or something like that.
I have the Dungeon Alphabet & GM Gems from Goodman Games and LOVE them. Do you have any similar pdfs to share?
>>46467135
one day one of my players wanted to attach two rock to a rope and use it as a weapon i made him roll his int , depending in the result it was the d6 turns to make it
>>46468685
by Raggi himself.
What would you guys recommend as a newbie to OSR vibes? What gives off an old-school 'vibe' without all the lackluster writing that plagues some 70s/80s games (which some may say is an essential part of that vibe)?
>>46469234
Adventurer Conqueror King is good for this.
>>46469234
vibes? Dungeon Crawl Classics. Hands down, no question.
mechanics? Labyrinth Lord & D&D B/X.
>>46469441
Swords and Wizardry is much more approachable than LL.
is Metamorphosis Alpha in the trove?
>>46467135
main one is when using a system besides DCC, I'll add in ACKS' rules for Cleaving, as they add a nice bit of oomph to Fighters, I also tend to increase the amount of spells magic using classes get at level one(although Sleep is only allowed one use in a day) along with some other tweaks to make using a magic class less boring and high risk before level 4-5
>>46469234
Basic Fantasy RPG is a good choice, as is Adventurer Conqueror King System, and Whitehack
>>46469678
It's in the Gamma World folder under 3rd Party stuff, IIRC.
>>46468685
I've got the physical version of the second printing of this, and it's great. Sadly I've been unable to find the PDF anywhere so I could give it to poor internet plebs. Do share if you ever come across it.
>>46469234
>vibes
Read Appendix N.
As for games that already capture this, look no further than DCCRPG, it's basically the whole point of the game. The modules capture this feeling nicely as well.
The game's core rulebook also has an expanded version of Appendix N with some more books on it, though I can't say how worthy the additions are from personal experience.
Looking for an alternative to Keep on the Borderlands that will fulfill a similar function - an introductory adventure that can last across multiple explorations.
>>46469441
>B/X
my nigger
>>46472829
Why not KotB itself?
Is troveguy about? I've actually finished* Wolfpacks for the trove. Now including:
Extra classes for Orphans (basically mowgli), Wendigos, Aberrants (sneaky mutants), Morlocks (creepy underground people, not elves) and Mystics (clerics who get fucked over by their god).
Rules (well, guidelines) for hauntings
How to build constructs
Those random encounter tables I forgot to include in the last version
Other little tweaks
There's like 150 pages of the thing and now it's done I have no idea what to do with my free time. Write modules, I guess? Or actually run it... or write a module and then run that module...
>>46472878
One of the players in the group has played parts of it before.
We're actually going to be playing whatever using LotFP, but I'm not a huge fan of their modules despite the system being pretty great.
>>46469234
I will never not shill Beyond the Wall.
It combines all the stuff I like in newer games with all the OSR goodness you could want, and it's got pretty neat mechanics, too.
To the Anon that requested it; Gonzo Sci-Fi space Derelict Encounters. Hope this is what you were looking for.
>>46472754
>Do share if you ever come across it.
>File: GM Gems.pdf (2.3 MB, PDF)
. . .
.
.
>>46472921
Fuck yeah! Congratulations.
Modules are the way to go, I think. Nothing like a good module or two to show people how you intend the game to run.Make sure you don't make TSR's mistake and accidentally teach people that tournament modules are the norm, though.
>>46473744
That's the first printing. The next edition is different.
>>46473744
I can only assume they are specifically referring to "if you come across the second edition of this" since that's what the anon said they had.
>>46473666
This satan made me think.
How many OSR games out there feature Sci-Fi as their resident setting? How many GOOD ones anyway? And do people think its a good enough concept to warrant it?
>>46474071
I haven't heard of many besides some of the DCC modules and those guys that argue that Traveller is OSR.
Does Stars Without Number count? There's also that spinoff game based on LOTFP called Machinations of the Space Princess.
Anyone got that picture from DCC I think of a bunch of players sitting around, one throwing fingers as dice, another stabbing their hand, etc? I can't find it in my DCC collection...
>>46474407
it's not from DCC, it's from a White Wolf game, one of the Werewolf expansions I believe
>>46474427
Well that would be why I can't find it then.
>>46474427
Yeah, it's a Black Dog Studios book, somebody mentioned it a couple threads ago, Pentex or something.
>>46474436
>>46474524
Cheers my man.
>>46473666
...what's the point in having normal gravity as a gravity distortion result?
>>46474613
...You know, I honestly just realized I did that now. I guess I couldn't come up with one more and forgot to change it.
So, /OSRG/, tell me...
Using WH40K-style critical damage rules - yes or no?
>>46475739
so, uh, death and dismemberment tables?
I like them for PCs and major NPCs; if you drop below 0 hitpoints, there's a table of What Horrible Thing Happened to you, until eventually you get 'dead' or 'messily dead'. For monsters, 0 hp=dead.
>>46467135
I tend to go for Shields Shall Be Splintered, Helms Shall be Split, and Hirelings Shall be Murdered.
Any of those items can be sacrificed to get you out of a hit (or a critical in the case of the helmet) - you lose 1 point of AC without a helmet.
I've been dicking around with adding DCC's Luck stat, along with a load of ways for it to be raised and lowered both permanently and temporarily.
I just cant think of too many good uses for it outside of adding to rolls when burned.
Suggestions?
>>46477755
>calling hirelings "items"
Truly the greatest of murderhobos.
Has anyone actually used hirelings? I never have, not once. Is it worth doing?
>>46472921
Cool, I'm very excited to read through this now that it's done. I've been following your work here and I think it's really cool. I'm considering running it.
>>46477816
I mean, there'll be morale consequences for sacrificing a nearby hireling to save your own skin, but it can be a useful last-stand tactic.
But yes, it can lead to the most morally-ambiguous stories of your gaming career.
Good times.
>>46477755
>Killing hirelings instead of having them be backup characters
Why the actual fuck?
I mean, the whole shield/helm thing is completely dumb for other reasons (how exactly do you expect your "helm being split" to SAVE you from damage?), but that hireling thing is just baffling.
Seriously, just put in death saving throws or some other safety-net if you're that attached to your character.
Does anyone happen to have Darker Paths 1 the Necromancer?
Does anyone have the official pdfs of the recent reprint AD&D books?
>>46467135
For my Basic Fantasy RPG games, I have a few to make things a bit less lethal at first level.
>Max hit die at first level.
>You can take a break, taking a turn to eat a ration and regain 1d6 hit points. The healing benefit may only be gained once per day.
>At 0 HP you're considered At Death's Door. The next time you take a hit, make a save vs. death with a penalty equal to the damage you just took. Failure means your character dies. The save is not modified by racial characteristics.
I'm thinking of changing the At Death's Door mechanic to a flat 1-2 on a d6 roll. It takes a lot of the lethality out but in my mind it's scarier knowing that the next hit could do your character in.
I'm looking for the new (2014) layout version of Tower of the Stargazer for LotFP. Anyone?
>>46479852
>At 0 HP you're considered At Death's Door. The next time you take a hit, make a save vs. death with a penalty equal to the damage you just took. Failure means your character dies. The save is not modified by racial characteristics.
OH BOY I SURE DO WONDER WHERE THAT IDEA CAME FROM
>>46479888
Never said it was original yo, just thought the idea was fun enough to lift for my own games.
>>46472921
Uploaded now. Congrats on finishing it!
If you come up with anything else for it, let me know and I'll add it to the appropriate folder.
This guy >>46473769 has the right of it. I'd heavily consider writing an adventure or two to showcase what the game is supposed to be like.
>>46479888
To be fair, there's basically nothing in the whole of this hobby that wasn't blatantly stolen from somewhere.
------
Also, I'll be on and off throughout the afternoon/evening. If anyone wants something uploaded or has any other trove business, let me know.
>>46479852
>it's scarier knowing that the next hit could do your character in.
"Dazed, Reeling, About To Break!"
Nice mechanic, though.
>>46477816
"I am ablative armor, life is boring, then briefly exciting, then over."
>>46478051
Depends on how you use them.
At higher levels, they can act as a baggage train.
Instead of travelling between the dungeon and town, you set up a "town" right outside the dungeon.
If you take resource management seriously, it's very difficult for a small group on foot to sustain themselves in the wilderness for weeks or months.
>>46479863
Buy it and post it here. It's only 6 bucks.
So I see Basic Fantasy RPG has crazy high exp rewards for killing stuff (atleast compared to basic D&D). If you also straight up give exp for gold does leveling become too fast? Exp for gold seems to be "optional".
>>46480396
BFRPG feels like it was designed to be breezed through and then you upgrade to a more detailed system after a campaign of it.
Firearms in OSR; yes or no?
>>46480435
>upgrade to a more detailed system
You sure you're in the right thread, bud?
>>46472921
More and more these days I'm thinking yes.
>>46480440
D E P E N D S O N T H E S E T T I N G
>>46480440
Why wouldn't they work in OSR? LotFP is one of the better-selling properties out there, and most of its supplements presume an early modern period. I'm pretty sure one edition or the other of AD&D had an arquebus in it. TSR had an entire setting book called A Mighty Fortress that takes place in the renaissance.
That's before we talk about the fact that the earlier you go in D&D history, the more it was about pulp fantasy and the less it was about "muh Tolkien." At least one adventure that I can think of takes place entirely on a crashed alien space ship.
>>46469234
dungeon crawl classics is all about that vibe.
sword and wizardry is the most approachable OSR rules system (e.g. saving throws, armor).
>>46472829
death frost doom is commonly cited. a thousand dead babies is also mentioned a lot.
of those two, i prefer a thousand dead babies but it needs a lot more built in hooks so that the PCs want to see more than just the dead babies. hide the dead babies for as long as possible and play up the weirdness of the forest.
When is 4e of DCC coming out?
>>46474071
white stars
stars without number
metamorphosis alpha
>>46472829
>Looking for an alternative to Keep on the Borderlands that will fulfill a similar function - an introductory adventure that can last across multiple explorations.
Request bump, if anyone has any suggestions.
>>46480957
KS backers are looking at an August publishing, so probably in stores for September.
>>46480440
C R O S S B O W S
>>46481027
Have you taken a look at the other Basic adventures? They're all pretty much like that, IIRC.
My personal favorite is B4 The Lost City, but that's more because it has such potential for expanding it later and the whole pulpy feel it has.
I don't know how well things convert from Basic to LotFP, though, so be wary of that.
The other one that's very much an introductory adventure is B1, but that one kind of needs you to play Basic since it's more about teaching you how to DM those systems and fill out a dungeon.
not >>46481734 but B4 attached if people want it
>>46481027
an additional great starter adventure that has an awesome pulp feel is the U series of classic modules.
Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh is very fun. The rest of the series is also strong. attached version is a bit fucked up, but maybe the trove has a better version.
>>46481781
Here's a version that actually has the insert for levels 6-10 and the underground city; I've seen that other PDF floating around a lot, and it's a shame that people keep posting the incomplete one.
This one that I'm posting is the one that's in the Trove, IIRC. You can tell the difference by the 1MB increase in file size.
Any programmers in /osrg/?
http://batintheattic.blogspot.com/2009/08/how-to-make-fantasy-sandbox.html
Automate this please.
>>46482499
thanks!
What even classes would be in Sci-Fi OSR?
>Soldier/fighter guy
>Smuggler/theif
>Technican/wizard?
>Psychic/cleric?
>Alien/dwarf/elf/halfling?
>>46483349
>classes
>in sci-fi
Traveller got it right. You go through careers to acquire skills. Your skills determine who you are, not your class.
Anyone got Whitestar? I wanna compare it to SWN and Hulks and Horrors.
>>46483427
But I like class systems.
Having a more general class system like 'the proud' who fight for a cause and have unwavering devotion to the cause, getting bonus health and attack against their enemies. It's similar to a fighter, but can be used for many concepts between mercanary, space punk, noble space knight, genocidal maniac, etc.
>>46483493
Sounds like Whitehack. I like it. The problem with career-as-class in scifi is that youre going to end up with so many classes, and every society might have different ones.
>>46483349
Alternity had a core four
> Combat Spec
> Diplomat
> Free Agent
> Tech Op
and then the optional "Mindwalker" class.
>>46483349
I can't fault Stars Without Number's Expert, Psychic, and Warrior.
It has a skill system so you can individualize each class. But since you're just dudes in space, you don't really need more than that.
How do I into reflex/will/fortitude save in LotFP?
>>46472829
I reccomend the village of homlet. Its adnd but easy enough to adapt.
>>46484349
you don't? you use the old-school saving throws as appropriate?
or just roll dex/wisdom/constitution checks i.e. roll 1d20, if equal to or less than ability score = success!
>>46484550
That's a terrible system in so far as your saves never improve.
>>46484349
Basically this >>46484550
Your options are:
> Use the saves that are already in the game
> Roll ability scores instead
> Do the work to graft the 3.x system onto LotFP
> write your own system entirely
Either way "How do I into" the answer is "you either go do the work, or you don't."
>>46484550
>>46485157
Alright, I saw a reference to a will save in Seclusium of Orphone and assumed that it somehow existed in the system. I'll figure out a system for that myself then.
>>46485228
I'm not sure, honestly. A good attribute-based save system I've seen used is actually hacked from the mono-save from S&W. Each class only getting one save, but that save is always modified by the relevant ability bonus.
So if your save is 14 at that level, your con save is 1d20+Mod vs 14.
>>46485228
what is causing the effect? you can just choose the appropriate lotfp saving throw.
they have meanings as written on the character sheet e.g. paralyze is for mobility hazards, magical device is for spell-like effects cause by items, etc.
>>46483349
depends on what kind of Sci-Fi it is, would be different between Post-Apocalypse, Space, and Cyberpunk games after all
>>46485228
>I saw a reference to a will save in Seclusium of Orphone
Oh yeah, this is because Vincent Baker's an asshole who hasn't got a fucking clue about anything. Raggi asked him to write a Vancian OSR module and I'm not sure he even understood what OSR means. None of the fucking mechanics in that module make any damn sense. Not to mention the shit use of page space, I bought that thing used for a fiver and I felt ripped off.
>>46484550
I like a hybrid system. Make each save being modified by a stat, the positive or negative stat mod modifying the save the save amount.
That way, saves are still affected by your stats but doesn't make them too important. I don't know why this system isn't more popular.
>>46467135
B
variable damage
double dmg on 20s
thief skills are made after Dexterity saves
>>46478051
My group in OD&D uses them all the time. The fights and random encounters are way too lethal otherwise.
>>46480440
Heck yes, planning on running a Tunnels and Trolls game set in the Age of Enlightenment with all the accoutrements and trappings that involves. Granted, still trying to make firearms work somewhat well in the rules without breaking them, but its not easy.
>>46480939
Interestingly enough, when I ran a Thousand Dead Babies the first time, my group did not go into the cave at all. They lured out the monster, plugged it full of crossbow bolts, and then refuse to enter the spoopy cave. Pretty smart group overall, actually...
The second time I ran it, the group "donated" the baby and bascinet to a local kindly cleric after they left town. That town had problems afterwards rather quickly.
>>46484349
See >>46485293 as that's really the easiest way to do it. S&W single stat saves are far superior to the standard old school categories anyway. The one trepidation I have is that it isn't easier to save vs. the fatal stuff (poison and death magic), like it usually is, but you could easily fix this by giving an across the board +2 bonus vs. it.
>>46467135
I'm planning on using the Vornheim rules about contacts to fill out the rumor-mill in B2.
The two thieves in my campaign have contacts with access to poisons and opiums from Yoon-Suin.
I don't expect any moaning, fingers crossed for pissing.
>>46481734
basic to LotFP is a pretty easy conversion. Tweak some numbers on saves, AC is ascending, clerics get no turn and spells at level 1, and thieves use d6s for skill points. Basically that's it.
>>46483597
>Make example class really vague 'The Proud'
>Career-as-class
bump
What is Neoclassical Geek Revival?
got this beauty in the mail
>>46491718
I ordered it a few weeks ago: the game itself is a beauty indeed, but they could have done something about the grey borders on the cover...
>>46487873
>T&T
Muh nigga.
I've been wanting to play a game of T&T for so long now. Getting friends together to play non-DnD games is like pulling teeth, though. Any idea if Deluxe Tunnels & Trolls is any good?
When you look at OSR games, do you prefer games that capture a similar look to early games (sans-serif fonts, double-columned, simple ink drawings) for nostalgia, or games that are more modern looking and polished in design, layout, and art?
>>46491718
what are all the variants of S&W and their differences?
>>46493115
I definitely prefer early games style of art. Corny comic strips and all.
>>46493157
Crypts & Things
The Heroes Journey
thats all i have
>>46493157
I'm not familiar with every edition, but I know the biggest separation is that the core game is a Bx clone (I think?) with some tweaks. White box is meant to be an OD&D clone (also with tweaks)
>>46491437
It looks cool, I bought and shared a bunch of the modules here because they're OSR compatible and I wanted them, but I never bought the rules for some reason...
Thing is that it isn't really OSR as in it isn't a D&D derivative, but an entirely new system. The autists will come in and say it doesn't count as OSR if you aren't careful.
>>46493115
Kinda depends. DCC is gorgeous, but LotFP also has an aesthetic I really adore.
>>46493157
S&W Whitebox: OD&D clone based on the core three little brown booklets (LBB)
S&W Core: OD&D clone based on the LBB plus the Greyhawk supplement
S&W Complete: OD&D clone based on the LBB plus all official supplements
I suppose S&W Core is kind of close to B/X as B/X itself is a rewrite of the OD&D LBB + Greyhawk, but all editions are intended to be OD&D clones.
>>46493040
Digging through the rules (they're in the trove), I think this possibly one of the easiest rule sets I've seen for a fantasy RPG outside of pamphlet or 1 page rulesets. I wish I could say I have actual play experience, but I think after my OD&D campaign ends I can give this a whirl with my group.
Could someone upload Mutiny in the Eleanor Moraes module for Star Frontiers? Cannot find any legit download source. Also, could the storyline be ported into 7th Sea?
>>46483349
>Grays as class
>>46474524
>Thai Cuisine
Every goddamn time.
>>46494409
How is T&T different from D&D?
>>46474524
of potential interest is how everything is covered in subtle spirals, which is (in werewolf the apocalypse) symbolic of the wyrm.
>>46483349
Check out TSR's Buck Rogers games. REMOVE RAM remove ram.
What's the scariest original monster your DM has every thrown at you?
I ask because the worst one in my recent memory was a snapper; its basically an alligator but with all the energy and aggression of a small lizard. I don't know, something about that just scares me, a non-lazy alligator ripping people to shreds.
>>46479969
Right! After some brainstorming, work has started on Spires Dreaming Beneath The Ice.
I'm doing a sort of stone-age dungeon crawl into ancient ruins, in a similar vein to Deep Carbon Observatory. An ancient lost facility filled with odd stuff worth looting, and clues to what its horrible purpose was.The biggest treasure is nuclear fuel rods, which could be really useful, or could fuck people over horribly.
I'm considering sticking my work up on drivethroughRPG, mostly to get it out there.
>>46496713
A giant (size of a large castle) wolf. We only ever saw it in the distance, or through scrying, or by seeing the stuff it had fucked up, but it was getting closer to us every time we caught a glimpse of it.
>>46494456
http://www.starfrontiers.com/Modules/
>Also, could the storyline be ported into 7th Sea?
I don't know 7th Sea at all, but Mutiny on the Eleanor Moraes is all alien world shit, which doesn't seem like it'd be in 7th Sea's wheelhouse at all.
Hey, guys. Quick experience point question. Could you ballpark for me about how many encounters (with the typical amount of treasure) it takes to go up a level in Basic? I've never played with anybody who actually does XP by the book and I'm especially interested in how long it takes you to get to 2nd level (but also generally curious about the rate of advancement overall).
Is there a ACKS Core pdf with the errata included floating around somewhere?
Any good supplements that introduce domain and mass combat rules? Or a system that has those in ready-to-steal format that is compatible with BX.
>>46492588
I didn't even notice, that looks like shit desu :/
>>46496803
>Spires Dreaming Beneath The Ice
Awesome!
>>46498679
I think the best domain system I've seen is An Echo, Resounding for Labyrinth Lord. Should be portable to any OSR system.
Adventurer, Conquerer, King has a detailed domain system as well, but it's a little too crunchy for my tastes.
There are a number of mass combat systems out there, like Chainmail, Warmachine, and the two Battlesystems from TSR, Platemail, the Book of War by that Delta guy, and a couple of others I'm forgetting. I don't know much about them, though.
>>46498679
You could check out the ACKs domain rules, the economy is just a more advanced version of B/X assumptions.
Also check out An Echo Resounding, some interesting ideas about domain play in there.
>>46500904
That 3 second difference, wow.
>>46496803
>that spoiler
FUCK YES.
>>46469234
Either Swords & Wizardry or Microlite74 if you're feeling minimalist.
>>46496897
Thanks anon. I see that the races can be humanized and the monsters turned into wild animals to use the not-discovery-age-europe setting. The story of the mutinty and the wilderness exploration can probably be used.
>>46467972
I've personally been using an Appraisal skill in my LotFP games and both myself and my players are enjoying it
>>46472921
Congrats.
Added your book to my hoard.
>>46502811
This is a glorious image.
Also - Underappreciated modules?
So a bunch of OSR bloggers released a reinterpreted version of Palace of the Silver Princess yesterday. Anyone taken a look at it? Thoughts?
What are the opinions on astonishing swordsmen & sorcerers of hyperborea?
As a European shipping is dreadfully expensive for me, and although 50$ for the box set isn't too bad, 50 extra $ for shipping is.
>>46505909
I've read through it a bit. It's an interesting book. It's also in the Trove.
It strikes me very much as "if AD&D1e was pulp sword & sorcery." It has a similar level of crunch to AD&D1e, and has a similar vibe in the way a lot of its rules are put together. If anything, the characters are slightly more "heroic" in terms of their capabilities, which is fitting for the genre. They swap out the races, eliminating demihumans entirely. Instead, they offer a handful of human cultures which are exactly what you expect them to be - vikings, atlanteans, cimmerians, etc.
I'm a big S&S nerd anyway, so I love the ideas and some of their approaches. I ultimately wound up choosing to play LotFP instead though, simply because I don't have any need or desire for AD&D levels of crunch. If that's your thing though, it looks cool. Definitely check out the pdfs before you decide one way or the other.
>>46496962
I'll do my best to answer this since you didn't get any replies, but it's hard to respond to accurately. "Number of encounters to level up" is a very 3E+ type of thing, it doesn't really figure into Basic play. For instance, the referee is expected to place major treasures himself, not rely entirely on the random treasure tables (although those will also run up considerable sums at times), and it's perfectly conceivable that a party might just miss, bypass or avoid all encounters on the way to a major haul. Not by accident, you understand, but by design; this is an intended feature of old-school D&D. Since XP gain is all about loot, and combat is deadly (especially on low levels), actually fighting monsters is a thing to be avoided if at all possible.
So, while not wanting to be a contrary cunt toward you, it's real hard to give anything like an estimate. The closest thing I can think of is that the rule of thumb for megadungeons is that each level should contain three times as much loot as a typical party of six PCs of the same level (e.g. 3rd level characters on level 3, and so on) needs in order to reach the next level. (Honestly I'm not sure about the multiple, it might be 2x or 4x, but someone will surely tell us.) A megadungeon level typically covers one page of graph paper, so maybe you can kinda work backwards from there?
I'd like to start and run my own OSR game, but I'm worried about failing or my group falling apart early.
What can I do to make and keep people interested in the game?
Post dungeon maps?
>>46496209
>D6 based system
>Armor is damage reduction based instead of lowering the chance of being hit
>Combat goes like this: both sides roll their d6 and add their mods, and whoever had the highest amount with their mod is who actually hits. The loser now finds the difference between the two rolls, and further subtracts their armor's damage reduction value. Whatever amount is leftover is how much damage they receive.
>Corny humor. There's an offensive Wizard spell called Take That, You Fiend!
It's silly and simple, but I love it.
>>46506845
Be up front about what type of campaign you want to run and make sure the players are on board. Read some of the OSR primers. Be engaging and have fun.
>>46488238
I like to write save or die stuff out of the game whenever practical.
I think it's far more interesting to have poisons that send adventures careening off the rails.
>>46505770
Gonna need a link for that, my google-fu is weak.
>>46508157
http://dndwithpornstars dot the blogspots/2016/04/princess-of-silver-palace-bya-lot-of.html
>>46508301
Just a heads up if you toss spoiler tags in the middle of blogspot it'll bypass the filter.
>>46507229
Which version of T&T should I grab from the trove? There's 5th, 6th, 7th, and deluxe editions.
Best articles/books on dungeon/adventure design? Newbie DM here trying to run a game of SW Whitebox.
>>46483349
>>46483427
I find classes work really well for a StarTrek style game where every (starfleet)ship has a set group of rolls for main the main characters.
>Command
Captain/Commander/First Officer
>Tech
Engineer/Operations
>Science Officer
>Doctor
>Soldier
Security/Tactical Officer
>Jack
Barkeep/Cook/Councillor/Non-standard crew with useful skills
There is also usually a weird character that can be in any role except command. They get some significant bonus or power but at the cost of a complex lifestyle and some unusual weaknesses.
>>46478301
>(how exactly do you expect your "helm being split" to SAVE you from damage?)
That is actually how they work. They eat the brunt of the damage and fail catastrophically so that your skull doesn't.
>>46506434
>and it's perfectly conceivable that a party might just miss, bypass or avoid all encounters on the way to a major haul
I'd still count those as encounters, or at least X encounters' worth of treasure, which is really the important thing. I'm not fixating on kills in specific, but breaking things down into discreet units so they can be quantified (and sure, not all treasure troves are equal, but there is an average or median, and big hoards can be maybe be given triple credit or just rolled into the larger equation: "a dozen including one big stash worth multiple times the average"). In any case, thank you for the response and giving me a little something to work with.
>>46507513
Hell, just giving PCs the better of two saves vs. death stuff would be a huge boost.
>>46508779
>>46508779
Cont.
In this kind of game characters would be considered to be somewhat competent in all fields. Unless a character has a particularity poor linked ability score he/she/it is assumed to be capable of doing whatever their doing. Any officer can fire a hand weapon, fiddle with a computer, apply first aid or analyse the data from a scan.
Class gives a character access to special knowledge of a particular field.
>Doctors and Soldiers
Use fighter progression. They have a linear bonus in their field. This bonus can be used to perform a particularly difficult task or multiple normal tasks by taking a penalty. They may learn applications for this bonus thru play.
>A security officer begins knowing how to use light and heavy phasers as well as small squad tactics. As time goes on he learns how to operate the weapons on the run-about. He's also learned some klingon martial arts while trap in time loop on ancient Cronos.
>A doctor knows how to treat humans and human like races such as vulcans. She is later forced to study up on exotic xeno-anatomy to save the crew from parasitic crab attacks. She also takes a keen interest in the history and creation of biological weapons, much to the worry of her superior officers.
An application may be permanent if it is repeated and practised or temporary if great time is takes to research and prepare for a very specific threat. It may also count at full or half value depending on how much effort the character has devoted to developing it.
Healing damage may be treated similar to attack rolls with the target AC being based of the percentile of HP lost.
Hey all.
Inspired by the way there's sort of a progression from sprites and elves to wizards (sneaky invisible troops to sneaky invisible shooty troops to sneaky invisible cannons & catapults) in Chainmail, I've been contemplating how one might, for a highly variant version of OSR, devise a class that blends a wizard and ranger. This RPG might not have the normal ones.
The idea is a class that progresses from nonmagical stealth to magical stealth, and nonmagical shooting to magical shooting. I'm leaning towards this as the elven version of the wizard.
>>46475739
WH40K style? Yes.
I'm contemplating an RPG in which virtually all killing blows are, in fact, grisly injuries (a la the DH 2e beta rules), often that make people pass out or be helpless from pain. As a result it is in fact much gentler and kinder than normal D&D while the players perceive it as much more horrifying and threatening than normal D&D (because ermagerd a good hit could cut off my hand!), and the perception is what matters.
>>46509305
Reskin the elf race-as-class. Perhaps with a customized spell list.
>>46479888
There's a lot that could be lifted from older editions. 5e concentration's mechanic for example.
>>46480440
Yes. I lean towards making them very, very powerful.
And very, very loud; using them in a dungeon is probably retarded. The equivalent of Going Loud in Demon: the Descent, coincidentally. There are few cases in most of my dungeons where you want to let everything in it know you're there and where you are.
>>46508628
I don't believe there's many differences between the editions. I believe 7th and DT&T have an extra class added to them (Specialist) and 2 or 3 extra races. 5th edition is the one I like best, but I haven't gotten a chance to check out DT&T yet.
>>46509261
>Science Officers and Techs
These guys use a skill system similar to that for the thief in The Complete Warlock. They advance as wizards.
They have ability slots in which they prepare their skills. The low level versions of these represent their advanced competence in various fields such as weapon design, engine repair and computer programming or physics, geology and bio-chemistry. These abilities allow them to automatically succeed on most knowledge or maintenance checks for these fields.
The higher level skills give them certain special quirks and tricks.
An engineer might have an 90% chance avoid random exploding panels the ability to use completely broken equipment at full ability a few times a day or build certain devices seemingly from almost nothing in a matter of hours.
A scientist could find the weakness of godlike being 50% of the time after 15min of observation, recognise and construct macguffins and act as doctor/soldier for a limited time when doing something related to their field.
>>46483349
The idea I was kicking around was Races As Classes, Classes As Races.
So on the one hand you have Mechanical, Technical, Biological, and Psionic, and double or triple classing is fine (but Tech+Psi double classing is the only way to combine the two, and its very oddball). Types are stronger versus their own. So a Biomech character is vulnerable to anti-bio stuff (like poison) AND anti-mechanical stuff (like rusting attacks and EMP). This is meant to be AD&D inspired.
On the other hand, you have Traveler style occupations which govern advancement, and possibly limit what type you are (the Marines may not like robots for example), but I don't lean in that direction.
There can be subtypes (clones vs aliens vs mutants) as desired.
>>46483647
Alternity had cool ideas buried beneath a very counterintuitive system that I think put people off. I especially enjoyed how str covers melee defense as well as ranged heavy weaponry.
>>46509717
>Jacks
Are like Techs and Scientist but they only get low level skills. To counteract this they get a lot more skill slots and have no limit to the fields they can access. Everything from science to politics, to art and larceny, there isn't anything a Jack can't potentially do. They advance as thieves.
Command Officers is not a class in itself but rather an add on to another class. The classes cost to level is doubled but they gain the authority of captain recognised by a major power. They also gain a leadership bonus charisma for the purpose of hireling numbers and morale.
Weird characters are similar. They gain a major bonus and a slight weakness. The bonus may be to ability scores (an android or vulcan's mental and physical prowess) or a special power (shape-shifting or mind reading) at lesser powers may only double XP cost but higher ones may triple it. The penalty usually involves a CHA hit as well as possible life style penalty such as having to lie in bucket or go for regular repairs.
Finally for every fie PCs only one can be a wierd character.
>>46508779
I kinda like STO's core Engineering, Science, and Command Officers, with some ships having Intelligence or Tactical Officers.
>>46505770
Just started looking over it...
>Beneath and beyond the deepest depths of everything smouldered the Hegemon in his immemorially tumescent wrath. His ponderous thought cast a shadow upon the world and the shadow of that thought became the Satrap of Draconia, an archon of inevitability, riding a coiled enormity through the world.
Blech. The difference between pretension and poetry may come down to artistry of execution more than conceptual merit, but bearing this in mind does seemingly little to make this magniloquent tripe more palatable.
>>46510190
Dunno, that sort of writing entertains me. Kinda HPL/The Great God Pan-ish.
>>46510225
The difference is that Lovecraft was (usually) pretty good at what he did and came off less like a grade schooler who stumbled across a thesaurus and decided to use the biggest, fanciest words he could find to make himself seem more sophisticated.
>>46510474
The only part I really find objectionable is the mid portion and "immemorially tumescent." "Riding a coiled enormity through the world," however, was worth price of admission.
>>46508699
Please respond.
>>46511251
There's stuff like the DMGR series, specifically the Campaign Sourcebook, Creative Campaigning, and the Complete Book of Villains, as well as the DM's Design Kit, but I'm not sure how good they are.
>>46511251
honestly? I'd say to read a bunch of recommended modules and absorb them. Pick features you like and mimic them. 'good' is largely a matter of taste.
>>46509612
>Going Loud in Demon: the Descent
Huh, tell me more about that if you would.
>>46483349
Check out Hulks and Horrors.
Also White Star. Can't remember the exact name, might be White Star Hack.
>>46508699
>>46511251
5 room dungeon.
>>46511655
Ok. So basically, angels are servants of the God Machine, some sort of Azazoth/Weaver (from owod)/Demiurge/Master Control Program pastiche whose origin is up to the ST. They do unfathomable things to maintain the status quo. Sometimes an angel disconnects due to desiring its own path or simply due to becoming too wildly emotional and erratic and becomes a demon.
If a demon is revealed, other angels will likely converge and destroy them. Demons survive by operating under Covers, false identities (kind of like Sidereal Resplendent Destinies), often snipped together from other people's existences, sold to them in pacts.
Going Loud is when a demon manifests through a Cover, destroying said Cover. It becomes of maximum power (and demons are VERY powerful) for a whole encounter. Afterwards, that Cover is totally destroyed, whoever that person was ceases to be with regards to the world, and the demon is highly vulnerable and is likely to be hunted down and destroyed unless he has or establishes a new Cover.
>>46512403
Interesting, thanks anon.
>>46510509
>immemorially tumescent
>a coiled enormity
both of these sound like euphemisms for dick
>>46511474
Is there some list of recommended ODD/retro modules? I am a newbie to all of this.
Suggested OSR game/module for Rick & Morty-esque shenanigans?
>>46513791
I've got nothing, man, but do you have a source on that picture? Shit is rad.
>>46513812
Ultraman, son.
>>46509843
> Alternity had cool ideas buried beneath a very counterintuitive system that I think put people off. I especially enjoyed how str covers melee defense as well as ranged heavy weaponry.
Alternity was the first RPG I intentionally purchased. We played a Star*Drive campaign for two years before we redesigned the system. I'm not sure you could pay me to run it today, but it was great back then. I have most of the books still on my shelf.
>runs LotFP for pathfinder players
>players complain character generation is difficult. That's dumb
>why does dexterity not influence slight of hands?! That's dumb
>why do slings and shortbows have the same range? That's dumb
>why do I have a skill to open doors. That's dumb
>why are shields oversized items? That makes no sense, shields are easy to carry.
I quit
>>46514390
>players complain character generation is difficult. That's dumb
Roll 3d6 6 times. Are your net modifiers 0+?
Pick a class.
Roll 3d6x10 for starting funds.
Buy stuff.
(Optional: Specialists spend points)
(Optional: MU rolls for spells)
It's.. hard to actually get any simpler or easier. In what way could one construe LotFP chargen to be "difficult?"
>>46514390
Explaining OSR games and their appeal to 3.PF players is usually a nightmare. One of my Pathfinder-playing friends did like Mazes & Minotaurs though, mostly because he's a huge Greek mythology buff.
>>46514464
I just came back from runningit. Apparently, it's just the whole not being used to a new system thing. And when you have minmaxers, they need to know every single thing there is to know before the game starts.
>>46514616
Even then, character creation in pathfinder can literally span hundreds of pages.
The entire character creation section in LotFP lasts... 20 pages? 25? And that's if you read every entry for every class.
>>46481027
>>46481734
>>46481828
>>46508699
>>46511251
>>46511461
>>46511474
>>46512132
We really ought to sit down and come up with a "getting started with OSR" list. Set up a pastebin, and have basically a "what do?"
> Primers to get started
> Best systems for beginners and why use each
> Best modules to for beginner OSR GMs to run
> Basic guide to sandboxes/hexcrawls or links to places where that information can be referenced
> Other best practices
The above constitutes half the questions that show up in each thread. Someone who is good at this kind of thing and can words should write up a basic "how to get started." Then we can include the pastebin link to said document as part of the OSRG copypasta.
>>46514812
>> Primers to get started
make sure to create a completely new one
the few posted in here before where terrible and would only serve to make people not want to play OSR
>>46514896
Right. So. In addition to all of the above, someone write a new primer! (and I'll agree - they all seem to be a bit pretentious)
>>46514812
People always recommend B1 as a good starter module, but I think some of the other B-series modules (Say, B3) are actually better, because they don't make you populate parts of the map, which means you don't have to worry about making a balanced encounter whole-cloth, you just have to tweak the existing ones if needed.
>>46515111
One of the things I love about B2 that isn't quite as present in other modules is the setup.
> Players have a central base that they can safely operate from and return to with a population that can easily provide hirelings/replacement PCs.
> NPCs in the keep itself can provide services as they players gain reputation
> There's an element of wilderness travel, so you can get in some camping/random wilderness encounters
> The caves themselves are large enough as to require multiple expeditions over time
> That can actively change between visits
> with multiple factions to deal with
> And no real metaplot that the players feel bound to from the beginning, so it becomes player-guided exploration and expeditions.
I'd like to find another module that ticks all those boxes, but most of them fail the very last one.
>>46515258
Return to Keep on the Borderlands is cheating, isn't it?
>>46475739
No. I'd just use the 2e shit from the combat and tactics book if I was going to bother.
>>46515350
lil bit
>>46513841
Ultraman always bored the crap out of me, even as a kid who loved the idea of giant robots fighting giant monsters. Every fucking episode was the same: Ultraman fights monster, starts losing, flies up in to space to recharge, then flies back down and kicks the monster's ass.
The Space Giants (Ambassador Magma) was way cooler, but it went in 4 episode arcs with the same monster, and there was more plot development. There was always an important B-plot, like the monster brought some terrible disease, or shapeshifters were infiltrating the government. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg2-ZKvMrIQ
>>46514812
> Best systems for beginners and why use each
Nobody would be able to agree. Though most OSR games aren't bad places to start. Generally, you want to stay away from the more complicated, AD&D side of the swimming pool. No OSRIC. No DCC. And definitely no Hackmaster. But the debate between whether to go with, say, Labyrinth Lord, Basic Fantasy, or Swords & Wizardry comes down mostly to personal preference.
>>46514812
Yeah I really like this idea.
>>46515111
I support your endorsement of B3, and for similar reasons, but for some reason it tends to get overlooked.
>>46515626
Yeah I was thinking the same thing, but like B/X is a pretty light weight starting place for Old School. Introduces things like race as class and loot for xp and hirelings without getting full on Domain Management and meatier stuff.
>>46515626
Every time the question has been asked that I've seen, the answer is almost always the same. You basically gave the same answer there:
> B/x if you want to stick to an original edition.
> S&W or LL as personal preference as polished-up versions of B/x
> LotFP is a tight B/x game that a lot of people like, but has a specific slant to it that may or may not to be to taste.
I think pretty much everyone can agree on the above, and that's usually what's recommended. I dont know enough about Basic Fantasy to comment on it one way or another as an OSR game.
>>46515655
Yeah, if you're going for actual D&D editions, I think B/X is the obvious choice (though some folks are gonna argue for BECMI). It's the retroclone side of the fence where there are a dozen valid suggestions.
>>46515626
>Generally, you want to stay away from the more complicated, AD&D side of the swimming pool.
Really? I started with 2e and it was pretty good.
>>46515816
AD&D was the first game I ever played period, so you can definitely start with AD&D. On the other hand, both AD&D editions are somewhat notorious for having rules that are ignored because they are dumb or fiddly. 1e Players tend to ignore most of the advanced combat stuff, and 2e basically needs to come with the disclaimer "please ignore the splats."
All around, you're better off with simple as a learning experience. Basic also has the advantage of being even more distinct from third edition. With race as a class and a complete lack of anything resembling skills, it helps drive home the point that this isn't meant to be played like a pathfinder.
>>46515927
>a complete lack of anything resembling skills
Just don't open the Gazetteers or RC (I think they made it into RC).
The 2e splats are... very variable. Some of them are great, some of them are pretty damn terrible. Special mention to the Player's Option series for having both.
>>46515969
Yeah, I think the accumulating "extras" in BECMI and RC is why B/x tends to be the more popular of the Basic systems.
I've heard different things about the 2e splats, but the fact that one has to know which aren't terrible is already a good reason to point towards a simpler system.
B/x is really nice simply because they work pretty well as a self-contained unit and don't require much if anything in house rules to function.
>>46516030
>Yeah, I think the accumulating "extras" in BECMI and RC is why B/x tends to be the more popular of the Basic systems.
I think it might have more to do with the fact that the BECMI layout is abysmal, and RC came out just before the Basic line was killed off. I remember reading that the Mentzer Basic Set is one of the most popular RPG products ever released.
>>46516074
My memory might be off, but the thing I remember putting me off was that BECMI seemed to be balanced around the idea that your characters could wind up level 36. This wouldn't have been a bad thing, necessarily, but I got the impression that to accomplish this, they stretched out the class progressions to match. Thief skills at name level in B/x are on average 20% higher than they are in BECMI at the same level.
>>46516237
They did stretch the thief's skill progression. The BECMI thief is probably the most useless iteration.
>>46516237
The BECMI thief is not particularly bad as far as OSR thieves go (which is pretty bad) due to them being able to get some mileage out of weapon mastery.
>>46516259
>>46516289
Oh right, I forgot about mastery.
>>46515655
>>46515693
Where would I find this on the Trove?
TSR > Basic D&D?
>>46516323
yes. moldvay basic is the name used in full
>>46516323
Yes, under '81 Basic Rules.
>>46516341
>>46516356
Thanks!
And after skimming through this thread, I should be looking at the B modules to start?
I'm just getting into OSR after being in a shit 5e group, so I'd like to start simple.
>>46516391
B and N. N are the AD&D 'Novice' modules, and it's slightly trickier to go from A to B than it is B to A.
You could also look at the Thunder Rift series of adventures, which are based around a town you can slot in anywhere and is intended to be used as a base of operations.
>>46516391
B1 is a great module for learning to DM. B2 and B3 are all gold-standard for beginner modules, I think. The whole B-series is great, but those are the best of the lot it seems.
>>46516391
One thing that's worth mentioning is that all old school D&D (and most OSR games) are essentially compatible. They are all built on the same core system and differ mostly in terms of the details stacked on top. The big split is between the Basic and AD&D lines, with the former maintaining the comparative minimalism of early Original D&D, and the latter building itself on top of Original D&D with all its supplements. And while there are some shifts between the editions (early OD&D uses exclusively d6s for all hit dice and weapon damage, AD&D bumps up the hit dice of everybody but magic-users by one size relative to Basic--so that thieves get d6s rather than d4s--etc.), porting material from one to the other is extremely easy.
And, of course, every DM worth his salt in the old days would eventually end up tweaking rules and introducing new ones, a process greatly facilitated by the simplicity of Basic's rules. Note that Labyrinth Lord is a retroclone that is, for the most part, very faithful to the original Moldvay Basic rules on which it is based, and it has an Advanced Edition Companion designed to introduce some of the options of AD&D without the underlying complexity (comparatively speaking) of the core system (something I think it's only somewhat success at, but it's a step in the right direction). The reason I bring this is up is that the AEC is designed to be compatible with the core LL rules (which, as I said, are essentially the same as those of Moldvay Basic) such that you can have characters constructed under the two rule sets in the same party, which makes it ideal for plundering if you ever get to the point where you want to expand your game.
here, have a custom class I made.
Critique?
>>46516554
This, of course, isn't something you really need to concern yourself with right now, but it might come in handy in the future.
Overall, remember that old school D&D (and especially Basic) is not about having a rule for everything. It's not completionist like 3.x is. It depends on improvisation and DM fiat. When you don't have a rule for something, default to either an attribute check (with whatever penalty or bonus seems appropriate), an arbitrary roll (if it seems to you that character X would have a 50% to successfully perform task Y, then you can just roll something that gives him a 50% chance of success: say, 1-3 on a d6), or a flat out ruling with no roll involved.
You are not a referee; you are the voice of god. The rules are just tools for you to use when making your ruling. Just don't be capricious or inconsiderate, as you don't want to alienate your players.
>>46516554
>>46516625
I really appreciate the advice!
As a brand new DM, it all seems a bit daunting. I really love the idea of being a DM, it's just learning enough to run good games smoothly.
>>46516670
Have a read of this. I've got Gygax's Role Playing Mastery somewhere, but I'e never had a look at it.
>>46516670
read b1 even if you dont run it. its a great lesson in design.
>>46516670
The good thing about Basic is that can afford to spend most of your time worrying about things other than mechanics (like group management, world building, storytelling, actual role playing, and so forth). And yeah, it's intimidating as fuck the first time around, because even with minimalist systems, role-playing is a very ambitious task. And guess what? Your first session probably isn't going to be very good (though that doesn't mean it can't be enjoyable). It's like your first time riding a bike; you're not gonna be some badass popping wheelies and shit. That takes practice.
Just ask your players to cut you some slack and work with you as you find your feet. And before you get too stressed out keep in mind that when all is said and done, you're really just playing pretend. And that's really the most important part of the game--the playing pretend part--and not rules mastery or anything like that.
>>46516752
Well my players are new as well, and have RP'd before in other stuff like WoW servers. (With great results)
So I'm sure it'll at least be fun, I guess all I can hope for is that the session makes sense and is comprehensible.
>>46516733
I definitely will.
>>46516752
Oh, and I should mention that it's a really good idea to sit down with your players ahead of time and discuss the tone of the game, expectations and etiquette. It doesn't have to be a very in depth conversation, but you want to make sure everybody's on the same page. You don't want a lolrandum guy who loves doing silly things in the party with a guy who is trying to take things very seriously. And you don't want one guy playing Backstabby McGee when everybody else is looking for a nice, cooperative game. (Generally speaking, I won't even allow one PC to attack another because it's too disruptive.)
>>46516670
>As a brand new DM
You should also check out Beyond the Wall and Other Adventures.
Should be in the trove. I feel like it with B/X are some of the easiest ones to get started with.
Good luck and have fun anon!
>>46515816
AD&D is really, really archaic and badly written for anyone reading it in the year 2016. On the contrary, B/X is laid out in relatively concise language and has only the stuff you need and is easy to read even today.
I would never recommend a version of AD&D to anyone who doesn't have some nostalgia with the game.
>>46516797
>AD&D is really, really archaic and badly written for anyone reading it in the year 2016.
I'm talking about 2e you waffle, the one which had an actual layout budget.
>>46515111
>>46515258
So this is B3 Palace of the Silver Princess?
I starting the pastebin.
>>46516827
I dislike 2e for a lot of the changes it makes, but damn if the black books aren't pretty.
>>46516876
Yes. B4 The Lost City is good too.
>>46516876
There are two versions: The orange-cover version is slightly older, has the same sort of partial map population as B1, is explicitly set in Glantri, and really needs editing. The green-cover version is setting-agnostic, fully populated, has a couple of minor map changed, such as a stairwell being removed, and is of general higher quality.
The orange version was pulled shortly after release and replaced by the green one.
>>46516827
AD&D 2e is still AD&D. It's not much better than the first edition.
>>46516943
I get the feeling you've never read 2e.
>>46516910
>>46516893
OK. I'm just making a note for B3 and the whole B series as a good entry point.
How do you guys handle searching for traps and hidden doors? On the one hand, one of the things people talk about for OSR is that it's about player skill not just rolls. That approach would suggest that hidden stuff is found through RP, but I feel like that would take ages for players to describe how they search every single room in every single way.
The other option is a d6 roll - but that is basically just an even worse version of later editions making you roll perception to find anything.
>>46516992
According to Mornard, the rolls are like saving throws for when your RP pixel hunt fails.
>>46516992
Generally as I like the show to go on, I may ask somewhat leading questions. If someone describes their searching for stuff, I ask them to be more specific when its relevant.
>>46516992
Honestly, I don't do a lot of traps or hidden doors for that reason. In some cases, you can slip clues into your room descriptions--little hints that there's something amiss. But there's a limit to how many times you can do that, at least with my playing style (and desire not to spend half the game describing the minutiae of room layouts). One thing you can do is to make a secret roll to see if folks "sense" something. Like, your thief has a sense that something's amiss, or just that it seems like this is the place that somebody would put a trap (or secret door, or whatever). The chance for success would be pretty high for a thief, and at least somewhat decent even if you didn't have a thief in your party, but wouldn't reveal the exact nature of the thing nor precisely where it is. To determine that, folks would have to search for it the old fashion way, by describing exactly what they're doing. This avoids the problem of having people search absolutely everything all the time. You simple make it so that the benefits of doing so (maybe finding something they did not sense) would be outweighed by the disadvantages (wandering monsters and such).
>>46516992
>how they search every single room in every single way
This of course takes time which means potential wandering monsters. On the other hand if there is no danger and they search a room inch by inch just tell them "alright you just spend 2 hours going through the room and find ...". It's not like they could do this with every single room and expect to come out of a dungeon alive.
>>46496962
> I'm especially interested in how long it takes you to get to 2nd level (but also generally curious about the rate of advancement overall).
Depending on the adventure you are having. You might easily get "try not to die" kind of adventure without any XP earned.
I say, as a rule (in my experience), first adventure (however long it takes) will give you enough loot to level-up. So ... let's say 4-5 "encounters", or 2-3 sessions. I think it is somewhat related to the squishiness of first-level characters. Referee will often prefer tp throw some loot in the general direction of the party so as not to have them die too fast. But that depends on the referee, of course.
Also, what >>46506434 said. You thinking 3E. OSR game objective is to give you fun via play, not via level-ups.
>>46509209
> X encounters' worth of treasure
There is no such thing. Avoiding "encounters" (rolling dice) is what you do.
I might accept "X adventures worth of treasure" as a vague measure unit.
>>46517536
>There is no such thing.
Not true, monsters have treasure tables assigned to them. Therefore, the results of rolling on those tables are the treasure value of that encounter.
>>46517561
Diffirent treasure hoards for different monsters. There is no "average treasure" for an "average monster". Neither there is "average monster" for an "average encounter".
Therefore, attempting to measure treasure in encounters is effectively impossible.
>>46517593
There might not be a typical amount of treasure, but there must be an average one. That is to say, the amounts of treasure may vary widely enough that going by the median value is essentially useless, but you can average shit together.
>>46517593
>>46517676
If I gave enough of a shit, I could work out the average treasure value of each table, the average encounter rolled on each random encounter table, and thus the average treasure value of each encounter table.
That doesn't take into account custom RE tables and fixed encounters, but it still can give you the average treasure value of a random encounter.
>>46515258
>I'd like to find another module that ticks all those boxes, but most of them fail the very last one.
That's easy. You won't really find anything like it. So just write out a whole butt load of "lairs". Then you can get all Saga Frontier with your game. That's pretty much all that KOBL is. Just a bunch of lairs that are originally smashed together in one central area. It's up to the DM to give the PCs a reason behind going into them aside from bunker raids.
Spare lairs are good to have anyways. God knows every time I throw plot hooks and hints at PCs they end up murdering the nobles they were supposed to save and or ransoming them or something.
Or piss off all the authority figures.
Or literally steal a fucking ship and end up on a continent 1000 miles east that I've just had to pull out of my ass.
Also joined up with a group of pirates instead of running them off. That's after going in and murdering a chapel full of priests in a temple that the pirates had already burned down.
The original idea was sending them to deliver a McGuffin to the head cleric there. But since the guards that were left drew weapons cause they got their anuses wrecked and were wary of strangers that meant they were hostile.
There are loads of other shenanigans I could use as examples. Spare lairs are good to have written up regardless if you aren't gonna "railroad" players. As a matter of fact it's your bread and butter when playing in the sandbox.
Oh and this all lead up to them reaching the Keep on the Borderlands. I give it 2 sessions before they get themselves thrown out or being chased by an army of guards.
>>46500904
>>46500938
>An Echo Resounding
This thing is amazing.
