Warhammer Fantasy General: TWINS THEY WERE or Selfest Is Best Twincest Edition
Link to last thread: >>46437535
>1d4chan
1d4chan.org/wiki/The_End_Times (Compilation of all the End Times changes)
1d4chan.org/wiki/Category:Warhammer_Fantasy (All pages marked WF on the /tg/ wiki)
>Warhammer Wikis
whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page (Warhammer Fantasy wiki)
warhammerfb.wikia.com/wiki/Warhammer_Wiki (Warhammer Fantasy wiki)
warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Warhammer_Online_Wiki (Warhammer Online wiki with lots of background articles too. Also AoR is not ded: /vg/ for details.)
>Resources(Armybooks, Supplements, Fluff, Crunch)
pastebin.com/8rnyAa1S
www.pastebin.com/0e6RuQux
>Endhammer
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Endhammer
>9th Age
http://www.the-ninth-age.com
>Total War: Warhammer
store.steampowered.com/app/364360/
>End Times: Vermintide
store.steampowered.com/app/235540/
>Mordheim: City of the Damned
store.steampowered.com/app/276810/
>Bloodbowl 2
store.steampowered.com/app/236690/
>Third party Miniature manufactures
http://pastebin.com/CvGaNyrk
>tfw didnt buy the sisters in time
>>46461075
to quote 1d4chan
>Anyone who makes a 'Twins are hot' joke gets kicked out of Athel Loren.
What Dwarven Kings and Thanes remain in Endhammer? How would Ungrim get elected as High King?
>>46461124
You can still get Free Company or a Druchii Derp Thrower.
Does anyone have any alternate endtimes or alternate settings that are better than endhammer? If like to hear what you came up with, anons, because frankly I can't stand endhammer
>>46461335
What don't you like about Endhammer? It's not like it's finalized or anything. If you don't like something; change it.
>>46461075
Just for a change, what is the low-magical thing you would want in your army?
Why the hell do skinks not use bows anymore?
>>46461335
Storm of Chaos?
>>46461377
Dudes... with... sword?
>>46461377
Pirates, mercenaries, and sailors.
Only the High/Dark Elves and Empire get dedicated mariner options.
Plus I thonk anyone can take the Forgeworld seamonsters, but fuck those prices for cannon bait. Pun intended.
>>46461377
>what is the low-magical thing you would want in your army?
Brets: Have all the low magic angles that don't break the lore covered. We've got longbowmen, castle guards (M@A), muddy peasants (Reliquary fanatics) and of course various flavors of knight. Having entered WHFB out of Fire Emblem I would love to see legitBow Knightsbut they are not a fit for Brets. Guess I have to make do with the faction next door having near-options in spades, eh?
>>46461377
Skinks with bows with a southlands thing iirc
Also chaos bows.
I want chaos armored crossbows gosh darnnit.
And stealthy maurader night raiders coated in blue and black war paint with heavy warbows
And Hung horse archers
And to boot I want some damn skaven archers
And skeleton archers for vampire counts
And some dwarf archers
GIV BOWS DAMMIT
>>46461776
>And skeleton archers for vampire counts
Yes.
With their own Khalida, some poncy aristocratic Lahmian male who who's sniffing from a snuffbox in his model. He grants them a bonus of some kind, I don't know what. Gets to upgrade a unit of Dire Wolves to his hounds.
What do you guys think is a fair price for an unpainted, riderless Island of Blood griphon? Im gonna buy one from a friend of mine, he asked me to give him a price and I wanna be fair to him.
Oldhammer facts: Morathi originally had a Maiden Guard like Alarielle does. The Guard Maidens. But it was dropped.
>>46461075
Why is his back foot floating?
How well do the monopose plastic Night Goblins fit with the normal ones? Mostly going to use them as back rank fillers.
>>46462125
Armored witches? Neat, any more info? Would they be related to the pleasure cults or khaine?
>>46461075
>that ugly dragon model
one thing that won't be missed at all
is there any hope that whoever sculpted it had his fingernail torn out with hot irons?
>>46462468
They are visibly tinier than the older sculpts of goblins I think
>>46462565
>wimpy guys at the back
Seems in character to me.
What is the "best," "Most-balanced," edition of Warhammer?
I'm going to say 7th ed before Daemons.
>>46463144
I was always a fan of 5th and 6th, 5th for herohammer and 6th because it's the edition I played the most
>>46461747
I wouldn't mind if they had some semi-decent infantry. Maybe some men in battered breastplates with bec de corbins and bills who have vowed to defeat enemies knights in an attempt to raise their status to that of the nobility, or earn something for their peasant family.
>>46461363
One change I would like to see implemented is Bretonnia breaking out of the "medieval stasis" a little bit with the new ranks of nobles and lords. Just a little bit though. Especially if they resume their position in older fluff as masters of shipbuilding, they're going to making plenty of their own cannons no matter what.
>>46463144The one you like
6th is my favourite, just because I feel like it was the last 'complete' edition; every army had a book, there were plenty of alternate lists and minis for everything, lots of campaigns, some good stuff from WD before they went fully down the toilet, and specialist stuff like the magnificent General's Compendium from based Vetock.
Some people like 7th with 6e books because they prefer the changes to a few core rules, and I can't say I blame them.
>>46463355
So adopting some primitive handgunnes and small cannons? Moving up from the 12th century to the 13th and 14th?
>>46463144
6th Edition using the Ravening Hordes army lists is 'most balanced'.
>>46462527
Not Pleasure Cult, they were her bodyguards. Didn't have much lore, they were just basically Dark Elf Maiden Guard. Her generic protectors.
The Guard Maidens, only ever had this one model released in 1985.
You knows its strange, GW made a lot of good models but very few good Dragons. In the WHFB line anyway.
>>46462536
I kinda like it, very 1980's art.
But you can just put Naestra and Arahan on a Hobbit Eagle instead. They ride both, the model was only ever the second derpiest dragon GW ever released though.
>>46463355
>masters of shipbuilding
They weren't ever, really.
A lot of people see Man O' War and think, "The Brets had ships of the line?! They must be awesome!" But their fleet even then had serious drawbacks. They only had one man o' war (The Galleon), which was still outgunned by the Empire Greatship and outcrewed by almost every other big ship, and the rest of their fleet was the small support ships. The Bret ships were very fast, but they were very reliant on the wind, which was a liability as often as not, and their firepower was strong but limited; basically if you couldn't sail up quick and get in the middle of the enemy like the British at Trafalgar, you were sunk. It'd led to a great reputation, but it was very swingy.
In fluff the Bret fleet is mentioned from time to time, especially in a couple notable victories, that likely feed their reputation. Because honestly, if their fleet was as good as some would have it, the Brets would rule the Great Ocean and the not-Mediterranean by dint of their geographic position.
>>46463494
Forgeworld were the only good ones. The plastic High Elf one is just tolerable.
The Stormcast one is the worst.
>>46462536
the concept of the dragon is not bad, nor the sculpt itself (for its time), it simply aged pretty fast and pretty bad trying to retain the more cartoony style of 5th edition later on.
>>46461377
>Skaven
Rats. Just rats.
>>46463376
Which book is that image from?
>>46461776
>Skaven archers
This. Slaves with slings just don't cut it.
>>46463874
Rat Swarm says hi.
>>46463919
...................that's the laugh-joke, man-thing
>>46463919
Tomb Swarm was here, Rat Swarm is a loser.
Bat Swarm is just a loser with wings.
>>46463964
JUNGLE
U
N
G
L
E
>>46463912
Empire at War. Great book, lots of fun, and some lovely art in it.
>>46463990
https://youtu.be/_nI6nYGI4jw
>>46464012
Thanks!I just realized had this book, but put it into the wrong folder.
>>46463396
Exactly
>>46463529
Well the Greatship had five attacks to the Galleon's 4, but it could only bring a max of three to bear on one target.
Anyway thats besides the point. If we look at Bretonnia's fluff throughout different editions we see some fun contradictions that could play out in Endhammer. Even if Bretonnia doesn't have the greatest fleet it likely has one of the biggest after the End Times shenanigans. Bretonnia's Corsairs may even supplant Empire Wargalleys as the ship of choice in travel between Lustria and the Old World.
Plus, I remember reading somewhere that worship of The Lady is banned for Peasants. If true, it means you now have leadership of the country split up between the surviving nobles and their fifth sons that pray to the Lady... And a group of Nouveau Riche that weren't even allowed to think about The Lady a decade ago. These former guildsmen aren't bound to the superstitions of the actual Knights, and will make use of gunpowder when King Giles isn't looking.
Would make worshipping the Lady interesting as some Knights are more passionate while others are skeptical. If the Lady's nature ever got out it'd make for an interesting "War of the Roses" scenario, but for now Great Breton stands together.
>>46463144
Most balanced army-book wise was 8th.
Most balanced core system, 7th.
>>46464086
>(FUNNY)
>>46464546
It was the 90's. That's all that you need to know.
>>46464338
This.
The only problems with 8e army books were the exact same problems in the 7e ones like TK Crumble and HE ASF, but all updated armies were closer in strength to each other than ever before.
It will be a real shame if the 'generic' goblins go away.
I always preferred Night Goblins but I liked the regular kind too.
>>46464651
They'll always exist in Warhammer.
Age? Not so much. But we're all on our way out in Age. Even what remains will be shitcanned as soon as the production cycle replaces them. Unless Age gets dropped and they bring back Fantasy, but that's unlikely.
Although, that special edition Space Marine model gives me a very small measure of hope. They ignored the Fantasy 30, but we may get something like Gotrek and Felix models in 35.
So where did the Dragons come from in WFB? They're probably older than the Old Ones in some cases.
>>46464285
Wow that was kinda incoherent. Point is that if Endhammer is about being able to play every army your way, then I want to play Bretonnia like late medieval England at Crecy.
>>46465131
The only account is from the High Elves. Most of which comes from a book rendered almost entirely non-canon by retcons. A bit was confirmed in the 8e army book.
Basically, there was a single dragon god. Everyone loved him, but the hinter goddess kilked him because he's an animal and hunters kill animals, duh.
So she got booted out of Elf Olympus for being so much of an asshole about it even Khaine called her a douche.
So the rest of the Elf gods made dragon god's body into Ulthuan, and let his children populate it before the Elves were there. The Elves became a sister race to dragons.
The Banner of the World Dragon is made of part of dragon god's scales.
Now where that gets fucked up is when you realize the Old Ones created Elves by uplifting existing fauna. They created the places those races would dwell. Nothing intelligent existed before Lizardmen, but Ulthuan dragons talk.
According to End Times, some or all of the Elf pantheon came from another world.
Then you have fucking Dracothian in Age.
Its a clusterfuck of canon. Believe none of it, headcanon what you like.
>>46465192
I feel like they'd be more France. Then again, it seems like France and England got really mushed together for Bretonnia.
>>46465408
Eh, whatever it takes to use the pun "Great Breton".
>>46465408
>>46465546
>>46465546
>>46465192
Bretonnia is England/France.
And that's the great thing about Endhammer. It's not set in stone. And it can still be changed. So if you write good enough fluff and crunch and people like it, then it will go in.
For example, write a peasant lord, give him special rules that allow his army to field some artillery. Balance that out somehow by cost or removing access to other models or moving them to specials. And it'll go in!
>>46461377
SKELETONS WITH FUCKING BOWS
>>46463964
>TK are so weak, even their own swarms are kicking their asses
>>46467167
The weakness is lack of March and the Heirophant being a thermal exhaust port.
Otherwise, TK are high tier.
I just got my shipment from the GW culling and holy shit this citadel fine cast resin is garbage
>>46467240
Remember the Ogres v. Tomb Kings battle report after the new Ogre book was released? Dumb fuck put his Heirophant in the first rank and got stomped to death in 2 turns.
>>46467608
characters have to be in the front row
>>46467314
There's a reason it was called "Failcast" or "Failcrap". I wouldn't be surprised if the last stock on those pieces were the ones that got returned for having massive air bubbles without being desprued and they just repacked them.
So, what's the latest news on cancelled boxes? Also, what are people's favorite internet retailers/bits sellers? Doing my panic buying.
I mean you can just go and play TK as UL, solves the marching and hierophant issue. I doubt anyone would be bitching even if you use Settra or Arkhan
>>46463355
I think somebody said they wanted one of the main coastal cities (famous for having cannons on its walls unlike many Bret cities) becoming the Center of Global Trade with the Plague-Death of Marienburg.
>>46468789
Why is it so unique in having cannons? Or more correctly, why does it have cannons where no other city in Bretonnia does?
>>46468818
Brets hate gunpowder and gunpowder weapons. They hate missile weapons in general, but gunpowder is worse.
>>46468887
So why does one of their cities have cannons?
>>46468818
>>46468887
>>46469151
L'Anguille. Looked it up. I don't know why. Some Bret Player tell us.
And as for Endhammer's changes... What about a character like John Hawkwood, the english mercenary captain who became an Italian prince/condottieri? A Bretonnian peasant sergeant who does something important enough to become the Prince of one of the newly-captured Tilean cities and now plays at being Lord, though he doesn't actually know what he's doing (while being kind to the little people).
>>46467913
fuck, my bad. I play Skaven and I'm so used to Verminous Valour.
Still though... Poor Heirophant
>>46469431
in 8e, even Skaven would have to be challenged to take advantage of VV and retire to the back, a seer could get mercilessly stomped for being in the front row as long as the enemy wasn't fool enough to let him slink away.
>>46467913
>>46469431
There was a bit of an exploit you could use to push the Heiro to the second rank.
It involved having two other heroes occupy the spaces either side of the Command Group, so there was no room for the Heiro, thus he was pushed to the second rank.
That said, this wouldn't really provide him any more protection from a cannon shot, since as he's already in the unit so gets the 2+ Look Out, Sir, and the cannon is a template so it doesn't really care about Line of Sight.
>>46469785
How should I run my phoenix guard? 20 seems really small for a unit, should i run them in a block of 30 (6x5) or with a bigger frontage? Also should I completely rely on magic to buff them or throw a killy prince? How about Korhil, stubborn and generally being a combat beast seems like it would do the unit some good.
>>46471794
Depends how cheesy you are.
High Elves have the advantage of having no wrong answers in listbuilding. Like, at all.
They're the ultimate "get gud" army in terms of "if you lost and the other player isn't cheesing like a massive faggot, you need to rethink your strategy".
In general? Massive hordes of Phoenix Guard and Korhil refuse to die. Likewise, Caradryan in White Lions. Its always been odd they go best in each other's force actually.
You want to look like a 7e cheesing faggot? Phoenix horde, Teclis, Banner of the World Dragon, Bolt Throwers.
>>46471794
I once had a Chimera on full wounds charge a unit of 4 Phoenix Guard, none of them died and they successfully ran down the Chimera.
The moral of this story is YOU CAN'T TRUST THE SYSTEM
>>46472485
well at first i was thinking about running them as a vessel for a banner of sorcery but after reading online i think they'd be more interesting than a big unit of lions since that's what I usually run
>>46472539
oh god what? was it bad dice?
>>46472643
Pretty much, the chimera did a bunch of wounds but that 4+ ward save the PG have + good dice meant that none of them died. They then (with help from their halberds) did a single wound to the Chimera.
The banner was still alive so the Chimera ended up losing the combat by 1, it has dick all for Leadership so it ran away, but even with a 3d6 flee move the PG caught it and ran it down.
This was the same battle in which I for some inane reason decided to use an Earthing Rod to re-roll a 6 result on the miscast table, ended up getting a 3 and had my Grey Seer sucked into the Warp.
So yeah, not the greatest game of my career.
This is the Tower of Hoeth, the largest structure in the setting.
Reminder that because of Fantasy Flight Games, we're getting lots of artwork for things we've never seen visualized before. Thanks to the GW/Chapterhouse dispute, we'll only see new artwork not of existing models through FFG.
>>46472704
The gates of Lothern. Non-Elves live in front, Elflands lay behind.
Ulthuan itself. Not sure what city this is.
>>46472733
Witch Hunter grill.
>>46472740
Dwarf/Vampire politics.
>>46472759
Daemonettes.
>>46472769
What looks like ShamanxWizard fanfiction.
>>46471794
Phoenix fuckers and a mage with a 4+ ward, cast one spell from the He lore and the whole unit is 3+
>>46472769
>>46463376
What exactly are the differences between 6th and 7th? I haven't given them an in-depth read, but they seem the most similar between editions at a cursory glance.
>>46469785
>>46469431
>>46471764
in 9th there's a skaven magic item that allows the character with it ignore "First Rank" rule.
my BSB hangs out in the middle of a huge clanrat unit and is a quite happy rat
>>46472740
Looks like whatsherface from DoW.
>>46472789
What the hell is going on there? Orc and human wizards helping each other out.
>>46472789
That's a 40k pic
>>46473202
>6th ed has 4 wide ranks and level line of sight.
>7th ed has 5 wide ranks and true line of sight.
>6th ed wizards generated their own power/ dispel dice
>7th ed wizards have to split 2D6 power dice with the lower number being dispel dice and can channel additional power dice
>6th ed monster were shit, ranked ws3 s3 t3 infantry blocks with 5 ranks were good
>7th ed monsters are good, ranked ws3 s3 t3 infantry blocks are less good
>>46473406
I've been trying to get people to try 9th edition but everyone dismisses it with "It's a fanmade thing it must suck"
They're very resistant to play anything not officially released by GW, they're even reluctant to use any of the points systems developed for AoS
>>46473507
My group took one look at 9th and jumped ship from Kings to it.
>>46473521
The thing is my group won't even look at it, or they saw a very early version and assumed nothing changed.
I wish they were a little more open to different opportunities.
>tfw using sisters of the thorn as whorelocks and wild riders as dark riders
How is the 8th ed tourney scene these days?
There's one supposed tombe coming up in my area soon but it was never huge to begin with.
>>46473507
9th age does suck atm though, it will need a good year to get good.
>>46472704
>never seen visualized before
wasn't Tower of Hoeth in WAR?
>>46472718
and this is totally from WAR
>>46473643
I'd be more willing to accept their evaluation if they had.
A. Tried the game
B. At least read the latest iteration of the rules
At this point they've done neither, at the most they've read a portion of one of the earliest versions.
>>46473677
If they chose Age, I don't know what to tell you.
Its like finding out your vidya bros switched to iPhone games.
You can show them good games left and right, but you have to choose to be that degree of casual.
You can keep trying at best. Hope they'll at least try it out of friendship. Good luck.
>>46473507
>>46473600
>>46473677
if I were you I'd be as dismissive and snarky towards GW as possible around them. use 3rd party minis on principle, laugh at anything GW does or even did. they'll either yield or you'll get some trolling satisfaction at least.
How long until someone replaces all the donut steel lingo in 9th age with what it's supposed to be? I don't want to have to have a decoder ring while i play
>>46473757
about as long as it takes for WHFB to go freeware, so GW don't sue them for copying
so not this century, I guess
So, /whfb/ what are you currently working on?
>>46473757
Never, because they don't want to get sued.
>>46473876
Cutting into the giant foam dice brick so I can fit a hydra into my GW carry case.
>>46465131
Think 8th Edition has them inhabiting the Warhammer World before the Old Ones arrived.
>>46473730
I don't think that would work, I'd just get ejected from the group. Also, I don't find trolling satisfying at all.
The world has enough hate and selfishness in it already without me adding to it.
>>46465400
>Then you have fucking Dracothian in Age.
Dracothian and his spawn might look like Dragons but they are not really dragons.
They are to actual Dragons what Elves are to humans. Superior, regal, godlike, and seemingly immortal.
>>46465131
They were there before the old ones, the lizardmen books make reference too it.
Dragon ogres and some animals were also there, apparently the warhammer world was a lot closer to its sun at the time.
The quality of lore seems a lot better than GWs new elven pantheon shit.
>>46474063
except elves are beautiful and humans are ugly-ass
with dracothians/dragons it's reversed
Man, dwarfs got completely fucked in Endhammer.
>>46474132
Dracoths and Star Drakes look cute and yet strong.
Ordinary Dragons look like overgrown worms with snake heads. Ugleh!
>>46473507
Well I can see anybody who actually values the fluff never wanting to touch it for any reason.
>>46468818
>>46469151
>>46469389
If I recall correctly, the duke of L'Anguille dukedom or the mayor of the city of L'Anguille doesn't worship the Lady, but the god of the seas Manan or something like that (the elves' Mathlan).
Thus he is not bound by any "no gunpowder" belief. And furthermore, I seem to remember that many nobles in the Bretonnian navy worshipped this god instead of the Lasy as well.
It is also interesting because L'Anguille was erected on top of the ruins of a HE colony (well, the huge lighthouse and walls still stand)
http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Castle_L'Anguille
Said colony has lots of history. Its name was Tor Alessi, and was one of the main scenarios of the War of the Beard, withstanding fourteen sieges. It was in the last one that King Gotrek killed king Caledor II and took the elven crown.
>>46474116
The Elf thing was kind of cool, you're already had the Old Ones coming from outer space and mortal beings ascending, so it isn't like it was pulled from nowhere.
>>46474207
UGLEH vs Cute!
>>46474207
>>46474296
dracoths look angular and boxy
Star Drakes look like disproportionate shit. even GW dragons look better.
it's all moot anyway, GW can't make dragon-shaped stuff anyway. only Reaper dragons are true.
>>46474265
The old ones were mysterious though, the whole fear of the unkown thing was just more interesting than elves playing keep away with their buttholes.
Mortal ascension was also a pretty grey area, since it was hard to tell if they were actually that person or an ideal version powered by the aethyr.
Now it's just oh wow, matt wards head cannon.
>>46474359
You do know that Elven legends are not necessarily true?
The meddling of the colossal fuck ups that were the Old Ones in the Old World mucked things up and makes it difficult to sketch an accurate image of the world's past.
are Dwarfs vermin?
1) live underground
2) feed of scraps humans leave to them
3) smell bad
4) can't into magic like all the proper races
5) lose their holds and never reclaim them, and the ones they keep slowly crumble
>>46474331
I like the zombie dragon.
Why the zombie dragon is shaped nothing like literally any other dragon is a mystery but you know
Spider riders fluffed and modelled as a few drunk Night Goblins riding big cave spiders herding a bunch of cave crawlies on cavalry bases.
Cool idea or stupid?
>>46474556
Cool and fluffy. Go for it.
>>46461776
>>46461853
>And skeleton archers for vampire counts
If you play Von Carstein and 6th/7th, there is an official list that gives you skeleton crossbows and zombies with spears or halberd with light armor and a shield. You can also gt Grave Guard with greatswords and full plate.
There's also an unofficial list in the back of the 6th ed. book that gives the Von Carsteins crossbowmen, archers, huntsmen and free companies (all alive) formed from those still loyal to their Elector Count in Sylvania.
So the Arch-Warhammer guy made a video where he said that vampires allying with dwarfs in the Total War game is pure bullshit.
>>46474331
It's strange how all GW best dragons were wyverns
>old snake wyvern
>old fat wyvern
>azhag's wyvern
>zombie dragon
>smaug
>>46474878
Also older wyvern, older azhag's wyvern and lotr wraiths' mount
>>46473499
>7th ed wizards have to split 2D6 power dice with the lower number being dispel dice and can channel additional power dice
This is incorrect.
Each side always gets 2 power which can be freely used by any wizard. Each side also always gets 2 dispel dice.
Lvl 1 wizards generate 1 power dice.
Lvl 2 wizards generate 2 power dice.
Lvl 3 wizards generate 3 power dice.
Lvl 4 wizards generate 4 power dice.
Only the wizard that generates these dice can use them.
Lvl 1 and 2 wizards generate 1 dispel dice.
Lvl 3 and 4 wizards generate 2 dispel dice.
Hey /tg/, can I get some identification on these guys? Got them as part of a larger second hand deal, planning to use them as a Mordheim warband of Chaos-y Elves or something (I know they're some flavour of Dark Elves but the skulls adorning their armour just look so Chaos, and the ghoul things will thematically be possessed, just not sure which actual warband to counts-as).
Talking about warhammer total war here.
I,for once, am glad there are.no elves in the game. Sonce the game is set in the bigger part of the old world, there'd be no reason for elves to be there in first place. Ulthuan is in the asshole of the ocean and dark elves would be limited to raiding parties.
The only ones who could take part in it are wood elves, but the treehuggers remain isolated from the world in their pretty forest so who cares about them
>>46475237
shut up, Dwaf
>>46475056
They don't seem like GW minuatures.
You sure they're not from some recaster?
why call it "warhammer total war" or "total war warhammer", when we can just call it "total warhammer"? seems like unnecessary typing to me.
>>46475276
>"total warhammer"
I've been calling it this in my head since it's been announced.
>>46475056
Look like 5th edition(?) dark elves black guards and ghouls
>>46475276
Rights, essentially. Total War is owned by Creative Assembly. Warhammer is owned by GW. Neither owns the right to a property called Total Warhammer. Its a shared ip so they use both names to keep the rights organized and clear.
>>46475276
As the other anon said its a copyright issue. Which is a godamn shame because when is something that perfect going to come around again?
>>46475237
Don't worry, the elves will come next game, we've already seen some of their models after all
The earlier the elves arrive, the earlier we can enjoy crushing their skulls
>>46475348
>>46475363
what's that got to do with us? why do anons type "warhammer total war" when is is absolutely clear what "total warhammer" means
>>46475251
They sure look GW to me, both the style and quality. I broke some of the bases off though to check, they're all dated from 1995, the Dark Elves are all "Marauders" and the ghouls are well, "Ghouls". I don't know of any other miniature companies from the mid 90s doing sculpts of that quality...
>>46475276
Because copyrights and IPs, that should be obvious.
>>46475345
>Black Guard
Thanks mate, that might be it. I just figured I should know if I'm going to refresh them for Mordheim and parade them around as a warband.
>>46475370
Probably because its actually named total war warhammer and people dont give shit like that a lot of thought
>>46475382
people don't give a lot of thought to being lazy better? that's not something I can possibly grasp.
>>46475397
Its three fucking letters anon.
>>46475380
If they are called marauders and date to 1995 then instead of black guard they might be some of the early corsairs
>>46475367
It's not the point. I mean i lke killing elves as much as the next guy, but i don't see any sense putting them in a game set i the old world. For the same reason i appreciate that there are no lizardmen too.
In a game set in Ulthuan, i'd play the shit out of elves. Here's hoping they'll focus on naval combat since Ulthuan is an island
>>46475418
LAZINESS ACCEPTS NO COMPROMISE!
>>46474906
You know to be honest I ball parked that one, it's been so long since I've played seventh that I have foggy at best memories. The winds of magic thing does seem a bit too recent.
My bad anon.
>>46475276
When it comes to long running series you have to be specific regarding names. Total warhammer will probably catch on at some point.
>>46475345
>>46475380
I have never seen the metal ghoul with the bird skull before, how odd.
>>46474421
>You do know that Elven legends are not necessarily true?
As with everything in the warhammer world, yet the fluff that "may not be true" in this case is anus.
>>46475429
Well they definitely seem to be older than 5th, this guy labels the...halberd? Greataxe? Whatever that thing as, he labels the guy wielding it as a Black Guard. I'm assuming the command I've got there are Black Guard too since they're decked out much the same, just armed with swords because obviously, they've got a banner and instrument to carry.
http://ravenminis.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/day-28-black-guard-slaver.html
Then this guy shows a crossbow soldier in the second pic of this article which matches the three dudes I have right in the back, and he labels it as a 4th Ed Warrior.
http://skulkers-surprise.blogspot.com.au/2013/10/white-dwarf-october-2013.html
I am still entirely perplexed as to why ALL of the ones I've got have "Marauder" on their tabs. I just wish it were easier to find info about older editions and units these days...
I can't believe nobody has posted this yet:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/554542735/the-pantheon-of-chaos
A new Kikstarter called Pantheon of Chaos making old school models but with new sculpts. Their artists and possibly sculptors are the original artists and evy' metal painters from GW back in the day. Models are £4 a pop.
They are talking about putting out an 'old hammer' book as well with profiles for all their miniatures and rules.
>>46475596
I genuinely don't want to own any of those models.
>tfw actually like the CAD models of today
>>46475596
I thought people already knew, some anon has been posting the greens for some time now
The malal daemons and some champions are impressive but I'm more interested in diehard miniatures' not!slann myself
>>46475633
It's personal flavour. There are certain types that I think are really cool but others a little too disproportionate for me.
>>46475540
They very well might be just single models from old DE units.
Still, for the purpose of a chaos elfs warband in mordheim, i'd suggest for a corsair look.
Don't really see black guards work as mercenaries
>>46475538
>My bad anon.
No worries, the only reason I know is because I've been doing a side by side of the 6th and 7th edition rule books for all the differences.
>>46461363
>What don't you like about Endhammer?
Pretty much everything involving the elves, dwarfs and empire
>Teclis and Imrik remaining loyal to malekith after the world is saved WHY?
with the elves splitting up into 3 factions anyways, its retarded for teclis and Imrik to remain with malekith.
>empire splitting up into various factions instead of coming together even stronger like they did in pretty much every other apocalyptic invasion
why? this feels like a forced shift in the status quo for no reason other than to shift the status quo. the empire for the majority of its history was divided, true unity rarely occurs under powerful leaders like Magnus and Karl Franz. Why not Have Karl survive and unite the shattered remains of the empire?
>dwarfs still losing all of their shit, keeping the lame ass death of thorgrim in it
The dwarfs are already in decline, why kick them either further into the mud?
I feel like Endhammer should be like post storm of chaos, where there actually is hope for the world. This setting seems like there are so many "bad guys" out there that whatever pockets of resistance there are will quickly get BTFO.
if i had to make changes, i'd have many points of divergence throughout the canon end times story leading up to endhammer. The order factions should have a chance not only to barely make it by, but be forged into something better, something more powerful and united. After the great war, the empire was reunified, and the imperial engineers and the magic colleges were established. imagine what kinds of institutions and inventions they came up with in the necessity of total war. Endhammer should be the immediate decade after, but should set up a time period fought 300 years later where everything has had enough time to change or settle into their new role in the world.
>>46475773
Not so much mercenaries, more like a cult of Khaine (or their armour looks almost Slaaneshi, although the ghouls don't look like something Slaanesh would tolerate) operating within the outskirts of the city. Basically just a splinter of Dark Elves that have turned too far towards Chaos and corruption that they know they could not rejoin the larger Dark Elf populace (some of them even becoming so corrupted by the Winds of Magic they've mutated into dumb ghoul-y things).
>>46474878
Is it because anatomically a 'dragon' looks weird?
Wyverns conform to our general conception of reptiles/lizards, being long-bodied and four-limbed.
Dragons don't because they have six limbs, four legs and two wings, so they don't look natural to us because we're instinctively looking for something that conforms to our current conception of what a reptile/lizard should look like.
>>46476056
>>dwarfs still losing all of their shit, keeping the lame ass death of thorgrim in it
>>The dwarfs are already in decline, why kick them either further into the mud?
As a dwarf player, this is really my biggest issue with Endhammer. Dwarfs have nothing.
I have been considering downsizing some of my armies. Is there still a market for whfb models?
>>46471794
5x4 or 5x5 is the way to go for PG. The extra 150 points doesn't worth it, as it doesn't really add any killing power, what is the main weakness of them.
Putting a lvl1 high mage + korhil in the unit is a better idea.
>>46472485
>u want to look like a 7e cheesing faggot? Phoenix horde, Teclis, Banner of the World Dragon, Bolt Throwers.
Bolt throwers count as cheese? Bet you don't even sit down against dwarfs.
Also, in 8th both phoenix horde and Teclis are rather fluff than power choices.
>>46476704
>Is there still a market for whfb models?
yes
>downsizing some of my armies
WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU DO THAT?
>>46474440
They are definitely related. Maybe Skaven are just the original chaos dwarfs? The fur was beard once, or did the drfs just get on with some meaty rats on lonely nights in the tunnels?
>>46476704
If you don't live in a backwards fuckhole of a country (like Australia), then yes.
Every fucking thing I want to buy online is infeasible due to sheer transport costs.
In many cases it's just simpler to buy GW.
>>46475671
>too disproportionate for me.
Not for you alone. I really don't understand the appeal.
>>46476704
>downsizing some of my armies
fucking why?
absolutely disgusting
>>46476056
>>46476632
>Durfs
Dwarfs have nothing in Endhammer because no Dwarf players have come forward to come up with new shit. It's also the logical conclusion of the continuous decline of the Dwarfs. Also, Ungrim Ironfist, the angriest High King ever, seems interesting to me. Maybe you disagree. We've got Dwarfish Karaks at Karak Hirn and Karak Norn, overpopulated with refugees from the World's Edge, and ready to go on Dorf Crusade to take back a hold. Where did Thorgrim die?
>Empire
The Empire's always been united within the game setting. In the fluff history? No. But it's remained functionally united under Karl for ages. Regarding the factions, they're not openly at war. You can still play a traditional Empire army, however, it's the simmering precursor to a "War of the Three Emperors" situation, which is interesting, to me.
>Elves
Imrik betrayed the High Elves. They don't want him back. As for Teclis, what would you suggest?
>Forces of Order are crumped
Not really. Bretonnia is now the world super power. Chaos and the Skaven are waning. The Empire survived while the hordes of Chaos have diminished or been dispersed. The Dwarfs and Elves were fucked, yes, but they're not gone, and again, this logically follows (to me) the decline of the Elder Races.
Also the Lizards all moved closer to the action in Africa.
But the great thing is, if you suggest stuff and people like it and you create new shit... then that can be what Endhammer is! So, suggest some storylines.
Karl surviving is one. I disagree, as I'd like to see something 'different.'
(For the record, I preferred storm to End Times immensely.)
>>46474213
Somebody create some rules for Godemar Fitzpatrick, the new Duke of L'Anguille?
A Special Rule which allows armies led by Godemar to take Empire cannons as a Rare choice?
>>46477236
>Dwarfs have nothing in Endhammer because no Dwarf players have come forward to come up with new shit.
Imo just eradicate the race, their spirit (tunnel-hiding smelly subhuman who feeds on the scraps superior races leave them) will live on in the Skaven.
>>46477272
You get a whole page
>>46475540
Marauder was one of the companies under the GW umbrella
http://www.solegends.com/marauder/
>>46477294
Come on, don't act like drfs can read. Though I love how they act through it, staring at the unintelligible scratches some previous high king "wrote" with their little pig eyes, trying to decipher what's in the "runes", then just go fuck it, we hate them for "reasons".
>>46477338
>all my Googling of "Dark Elf Marauder" and variations didn't bring this site up
Well thanks mate. So that begs the question I guess, can you call them GW then?
>>46477272
That's exaggerated, lets justshave all of them with radiations caused by a skaven fallout
>>46477338
>>46477426
Although that being said, those miniatures look different again to what I have. Those look even earlier, like I said I think mine are from around 4th Edition. Again, I think I just have a mix o
>>46477460
>a mix of 4e Dark Elf Warriors and Black Guard
>>46477426
I'd say you can... after all Marauder was absorbed after a while. And >>46477460 yes, I'd say that's what you have. In fact some of those pop up if you search on eBay for "Dark Elf executioner"
>>46477407
You should come and help us deciphering the book's secret. You can't miss it, we keep it close to a shabby second-class junk some fags mock as a crown.
>>46476751
>>46477223
Because I have 4 armies and not enough time to paint them all. Don't worry I'll still have like 4-5k points of orcs after getting rid of some models I don't care for.
I'm a guy who got into Age of Sigmar with Tomb Kings. Got a great deal on them literally 2 weeks before they got squatted. Should have known better, right?
I'm thinking of getting into 9th Age because I want to be all spooky and Skeletacular. Could anyone give me some hints as to what lists are remotely competitive in the meta right now?
I've got a good 100 or so skeleton archers, 50ish warriors, 30 Tomb Guard, a variety of heroes, (at least) 3 sphinxes, some Tomb Scorpions, and 15 chariots. I'd love to give those chariots a workout, but I'm not opposed to buying new junk.
>>46475596
I'd get the Malal ones.
Anyone know if they'll make non-Chaos models? Like the old humans from the same art? Or the Elves?
>>46478168
>[Tomb Kings] got squatted
Wait, what?
>>46478576
You heard me. They got retconned along with Brets, the Empire, and a lot of Elves.
>>46478635
>>46478576
discontinued
retcon is a different thing
>>46476624
bullshit. well-proportioned dragon looks natural enough.
I have Nethyrmaul sitting on my desk and he looks wonderfully natural, apart from being an undead monstrosity.
>>46478022
bah
my armies grow faster than I'd ever be able to paint them - if I did bother painting, that is - and it doesn't matter. grey plastic crack is as narcotic as rainbow plastic crack.
>>46478635
>Brets
I have a bunch of those from jsut recently buying the old starter, although I can't say I was really planning to field them...
>Empire
>Tomb Kings
Now that's just fucking atrocious. I'm guessing they didn't even give any good reasons, those factions were just conveniently lost in the End Times whilst the fucking Ogres somehow pulled through?
>>46475898
>>46473202 here
Is there anything in particular of note other than the ranks and magic then? I definitely enjoy the 6th Edition style armybooks, but only got to play 7th. I'd be very interested to try 6th if the differences is pretty much just in formation size. If anything, having 4 wide ranks sounds great for not needing as many models...
>>46478741
>>46478635
more than half of Empire minis stayed. they are the human population of Azirheam or someshit.
they just ditched some of the better ones - Free Company, Knightly Orders, Captain With Shield, etc.
>>46478668
Technically a retcon, considering Sphinxes appeared in a AoS book and most of the new Free Guild stuff still has old world regalia on it.
>>46478787
they didn't alter the fluff, so it's not retcon. they just discontinued the models.
retcon = fluff alteration.
>>46478777
Yeah, actually not so bad. Shame on that anon saying they were completely removed.
>>46478808
So Karl Franz becoming a generic general who happens to have his face plastered on everything isn't a change in fluff?
Or a random sphinx popping up and then promptly being forgotten in a setting where Tomb Kings no longer exist?
Regardless, this is still a silly argument. We should be better than that.
>>46478168
The 9th meta isn't really set in stone at this point since they've been updating the rules rather regularly.
Crawl through the army-specific subforum over on the 9th age site if you want to find out some strategy and tactics: http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php?board/13-undying-dynasties-ud/ (you have to register to see army-specific subforums but it's easy).
![106626_md-Mantic%20Skeletons[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/CfhnJ04.jpg "106626_md-Mantic%20Skeletons[1].jpg")
>>46478168
The meta for 9th Age is in a bit of flux as the rules continue to be fleshed out and the army books are in a kind of placeholder format. Really, everything is kind of 'Ravening Hordes' right now, so really just experiment with what you've got and see what you like. There's really no going wrong at the moment.
Mantic also just came out at Adepticon that they'll be doing a miniatures range for their Empire of Dust (not!Tomb Kings) list, and their undead are about the best thing that they do in terms of miniatures quality, so keep your eyes out on that if you want to expand your armyor try a cleaner game.
>>46478849
it's a model. model has no impact on fluff. continuity of fluff didn't change with the fact some models disappeared or started to portray different things. Karl Franz stayed Karl Franz, the last Emperor of the Old World. Whatever his model now represents is irrelevant to the fact.
>>46478168
>>46478855
>>46478868
what is more, you are more than welcome to experiment with builds and leave feedback, so they can balance stuff better.
>>46476721
That's the joke.
Those were OP as fuck in 7th. Not 8th.
>>46477248
I'm not a big crunch person, but I'll take a crack at it.
>Godemar Fitzgodric, Steward of L'Anguille
M - 4
WS - 4
BS - 4
S - 3
T - 3
W - 2
I - 3
A - 2
LD - 7
Armour: Heavy Armor
Special Rules:
-"Merchant Prince of L'Anguille": Born a peasant and bound by none of the superstitions of Bretonnia's noble class, Godemar has long coveted the technology of the neighboring Empire. An army taking Godemar may field Empire Cannons as a Rare choice for... <Insert Points Cost>.
-"Brethren of the Lighthouse": Something. L'Anguille was long run, even prior to the End Times, by the merchant/naval guild the Brethren of the Lighthouse... so I think there should be something more related to them. Just don't know what.
>Jean Hawkwood, Prince of Pavona
M - 4
WS - 4
BS - 4
S - 3
T - 3
W - 2
T - 2
I - 4
A - 2
Ld - 8
Armour: Light Armor
Special Rules
-"Hawkwood's Black Company": Hawkwood was a peasant sergeant who gained fame by drilling his longbowmen like a professional Tilean merc company during the Errantry War for Tilea. An army taking Hawkwood may replace their Peasant Longbowmen with "Black Company Longbowmen" who has +1 to Attack and to WS. (Is this too OP? Not good enough?)
>>46478849
A retcon would be "Karl Franz never existed" or "Its spelled Carl".
Discontinuation means the model is no longer sold.
Karl is now what Grom and Vlad were in 8e. Dead characters still sold.
>>46476821
It's kinda okay if you're selling/buying within Australia
There's a lot of Buy/Swap/Sell pages on FB to facilitate that.what armies are you looking for anon I can set you up good and proper
>>46479433
Fantasy doesn't move too well even using them though.
>>46479133
Jean Hawkwood
How big are the heads of chaos warriors compared to the ones of imperials?
>>46477426
According to the old rules, when they bothered to include them, armies could include either Citadel or Marauder miniatures. They are GW according to GW.
>>46478868
How are the other main undead units (zombies, ghouls and revenants) from Mantic? Are the models worth getting instead of trying to get GW stuff?
>>46483614
ghouls are very good
zombies are much better than GW's
revenants suck as much as skeletons, especially when compared to absolutely boss GW grave guard (apart from price difference. GW grave guard cost a metric fuckton)
>>46483868
So their skeletons suck. I thought they looked decent from the picture posted in this tread. So hard to tell without actually seeing the minis first hand though.
>>46484276
that's purely subjective to be honest
i dislike them, but there are many that love them
revenants still don't look regal enough to qualify as grave guard
>>46461075
Has anyone done rules for Stormcast but in real whfb? Shouldn't be that difficult to make Warriors of ...Empire.
>>46484322
there was some anon a few months back
>>46477236
>>46476632
alright, i'll try to come up with something with the dwarfs.
Ungrim leads a fuckhuge army of slayers, since so many dwarfs have lost everything during the war. Karak Kadrin still falls, giving Ungrim reason to be angry enough to take in the wind of fire. He ends up splitting the wind between himself and the slayers since fire grows stronger the more it spreads. The Crusade of flame first breaks the siege of everpeak, then travels to the Northern empire to break the armies of chaos. Ungrims force is less like an army and more like a force of nature, a cleansing fire that will scour the old world of taint, or burn itself out in the attempt.
Thorgrim Kills the deathmaster during their confrontation, and continues to lead the largest, most powerful dwarf army assembled in ages. They still keep all the runic weapons out, and are preparing to take back their lost holds. Throgrim is having a bit of an issue with Ungrim drawing in so many potential dwarf warriors into his slayer crusade, since those axes could be aiding the restoration of the dwarf realms rather than the empire
During the siege of Zhufbar, the skaven could not outmatch the dwarfs in a contest of firepower, so they aimed to assassinate the King, the lords and thanes. With so many elders dead, leadership falls to Master Engineer Grim Burlokson, who orders the experimental weapons of the workshops to put to use on the front lines. multibarreled Drakguns, Steamtanks, alchemical weapons, zeppelins, steam powered war engines and more devices battle tested for mere decades are pressed into service. There aren't enough old beards around to complain about this, and most dwarfs agree the mechanical marvels are what saved them.
Now you have 3 distinct flavors of dwarfs but they aren't literally split off into different factions. The more well rounded and traditional, runic weapons dwarfs with Thorgrim. The Empowered slayers under Ungrimm, and the Upstart Engineers being lead by Burlokson
>>46484470
The Winds thing was nixed in Endhammer as too retarded.
>>46477236
>it's the simmering precursor to a "War of the Three Emperors" situation
this is an interesting take, but at the completely wrong time. The whole reason the empire is able to survive apocalyptic invasions is because of their unity. the empire as 3 separate factions just makes them even more vulnerable to attack, and doesn't make sense considering all the comradery that should have resulted from the empire standing together to face the greatest invasion in its history. Keep Karl Alive, the rem ants of the empire need him if they want to stand any chance of getting out of this alive.
>Bretonnia is now the world super power.
Retch, they were getting shit on even before the end times with that tzeentchian invasion and then the civil war, if anything they were in worst state than the empire. and what is this about peasants being uplifted to knighthood REEEEE
>>46484276
I've read some people claim that if you give them GW skellies' heads they look much better. And these should be easy to come about, since every kit includes excess of them.
>>46473507
It was the same here. I brought 9th up whenever possible and urged them to try it. Eventually we got some games in just to try something different before returning to 8th (at least that's what I said we could/would probably do) and now they don't wanna change back.
I really didn't see that coming especially as most of my group are WAACers that really liked their overpowered armies.
>>46473677
>I'd be more willing to accept their evaluation if they had.
>A. Tried the game
>B. At least read the latest iteration of the rules
You really need to get a few games of 9th before you can fully appreciate it. If you only see a few isolated rules, lot's of things just won't make sense. Or you could of course just leave it at that and come to /tg/ warhamms general to complain about how 9th is stupid.
>>46484718
If we can nix the incarnates for being too retarded, then other elements of the story can go too, like the entire plot of the elves. Fuck malekith, get rid of the retarded retcon that he was meant to be king and still is worthy to be king. A better fate would have been realizing in the very end that he WAS meant to be king, but his shitty behavior corrupted him beyond redemption and now the mantle has passed on to someone else. No incarnates means no reason to destroy ulthuan. Also, No tyrion redemption arc. If he has to be the avatar of khaine, keep him as he avatar of khaine or kill him off. Othersie, make him phoenix king. yeah its cliche as fuck, but at least it doesn't require a bunch of retarded retcons. Make tyrion the first king after aenaion to actually walk through the fire without wards, and come out of it truly empowered.
And without Teclis trying to bring back tyrion, no cheap ass death for ulric.
>>46475056
>4/5th edtion ghouls
>4/5th edition generic DE command
>4/5th edition DE Xbowmen
>>46485178
Forgot:
>4/5th edition black guard
>>46484858
They really do
Still inferior to gw skellies are however it is true that the ghouls and zombies are really really nice.
>>46485104
The retcon that he was "meant to be king" has already been dealt with. Do take a read of Endhammer before you dismiss it.
And I think the Khaine story is dealt with nicely, but after you read it, you tell me.
And Ulric already doesn't die. Again, take a read! Lol. We've retconned a ton of stuff.
>>46484835
Bretonnia is a superpower because it's legitimately led by a god king, and while its north was humped to death by horny Norscans and it went through a civil war, it still had enough knightly gallantry to ride to Altdorf's aid and STILL HAVE MORE to support the Green Knight/Gilles le Breton. Furthermore, unlike the Empire, it did not have its capitol and half its country reduced to a wasteland.
>Vulnerable to Attack
Part of the mission of Endhammer is to reduce the "Chaos is always around the corner" feeling that pervaded 8th Edition. Yes, Chaos should be a threat, but more and more it seemed like it was the ONLY threat (to the point that they fucking made the Vampires and NAGASH ally with the Empire. Retarded). After Valten defeated Archaon and blunted the Chaos invasion, the forces of Chaos withered. They fought each other or dispersed into the wilderness. So, right now, Chaos is regrouping. Skavenblight was blasted to smithereens and the Skaven are regrouping. And Vlad is considering a legitimate run at Emperor.
Endhammer is set (I forget if it's a few years or a decade after the End Times). The Empire is "safe" but as-of-yet unrecovered. And it's a situation similar to the Vampire Wars. Three men think they should be leader, but they're not yet at all out war, while a Vampire is around the corner (and will unite them).
Unifying the Empire and fighting Vlad the Returned could be a nice campaign to tack onto base Endhammer.
>>46479133
By the way. Any crunchy people got comments on these Endhammer heroes for Bretonnia?
>>46487431
Okay, i'll try to work within the frame of the time of 3 emperors stuff, and still have Karl Franz Survive. Also, why does the empire still have to get razed to the ground? bretonnia also did in canon, and if we can change that we can change what happened to the imperial cities. 3 of the greatest cities in the empire being reduced to ruin in a matter that made the battles fought afterward nearly pointless was retarded. I say have Talabheim survive, but be surrounded in ungodly amounts of beastmen tribes. they were completely cut off from the rest of the empire, and over the past few years things have gotten pretty tyrannical in there. Now that the empire is starting to do better, and contact is reestablished, the Warlord of Talabheim might not be so keen on giving up his independence. After all, the emperor did not come to their aid when they needed it most, they held out by the strength of their own men and walls.
I say karl Franz never dies, but he does go missing during one of the major bates, same way he does in Nagash. Everyone thinks he is dead, but rumors of a mighty warrior, a great beast and a ragtag band of veteran soldiers fighting their way across the northern wastes could be signs of the one man who can unite his people in this time of strife. That is, if this man even remembers he is Karl Franz....
As for Gelts Power play, i say it eventually gets resolved with the Supreme Patriarch being given elector status, on the condition that Gelt himself cannot be the supreme patriarch of magic due to his earlier shenanigans.
And i say the oh shit moment that eventually gets the empire back together is when Neferata allies with vlad and sends armies north to help him, on the condition that she gets territory in the empire. Settra ever allying with Nef was retarded fluff rape of the worst degree. Anyways, The resurgence of the undead and the return of Karl franz unites the empire in time for the civil war, since vlad is a legit elector count now.
>>46478741
Ogres are a race, so keeping them around isn't a problem.
Tomb Kings I imagine weren't kept around simply because most of their kits were old as dirt.
>>46478849
I'm pretty sure the Warscrolls for everything discontinued are still available.
>>46487431
>The retcon that he was "meant to be king" has already been dealt with. Do take a read of Endhammer before you dismiss it.
>Unfortunately for Tyrion, Prince Imrik accepts an offer of allegiance to Malekith. Tyrion had humiliated and browbeat him enough when he tried to organize a new election to the Phoenix Throne. And considering that Ulthuan was most likely going to lose the war, it was probably the right decision. The armies of Malekith march through the Eagle Gate and Malekith makes a bee-line for the Shrine of Asuryan, where Teclis wards Malekith as he walks through the Flames to become the "Phoenix King" Malekith walks unharmed through the Flame of Asuryan, and reveals that he was the rightful Phoenix King all along (what doesn't kill you makes you stronger)! It is also revealed that those before him needed wards to keep themselves from being burned alive, and thus were cursed by Asuryan. This curse ultimately resulted to the despondency and ennui that led to Finubar's "suicide."
this is worst than anything that was in the actual end times. If Malekith isn't literally the chosen of Asuryan theres no reason, theres no FUCKING reason that Imrik or Teclis would ever ally with him. Your looking at this fluff from the outside looking in, thats not how these characters would act. The High elves, all of them, Absolutely hate the dark elves and would rather kill themselves than ally with them for any reason other than "your creator gods/ancestors said so"
Imrik allying with malekith because he was humiliated in court, and ulthuan was going to lose the war. How? Without Caledors Betrayal, all those dragons would have wrecked Malekiths forces right there before they even breached the gates. And even if they didn't, the massive chariot army of tiranoc was on its way and would have smashed into them. Without inside help the dark elves would have lost again, badly.
>>46488972
I don't buy that. When I read the fluff, I got the feeling that Imrik betrayed the high elves for personal gain. And rather than have Teclis follow some chosen one prophecy, he tries to unite the elves in order to face down the Chaos invasion. Both of these motivations seem far more honest and true to their characters.
>>46474810
Arch-Warhammer's an entitled prick who complains about every single decision CA makes. Ignore him.
>>46488740
I guess I'm just not in the mood to see Karl Franz come back. I'd like to see new heroes. New people. Having the Empire get reunited by the Norscan of Salkalten is preferable (in my opinion). Karl Franz was around forever and then he went out in a blaze of glory.
>Gelt
Why would Gelt be mollified if he didn't get to have the power? The point is that he's arrogant as fuck and thinks he's the smartest person ever and that he should lead.
>>46488881
Except GW is keeping old models and axing new ones.
If Beasts stay, they clearly aren't axing unpopular factions either.
Its completely arbitrary.
Why axe all Order cavalry but leave artillery? Why axe all Death Constructs but leave the Ghosts? Why axe the Troll King, but keep the old Trolls?
Why axe all Forgeworld Ogres and keep all monsters?
Shit makes no sense, mang.
Mark my words, Ogres are being squatted next as are all non-Night Goblins.
>>46489126
Imrik is Caledorian.
Caledorians think of one thing. Personal glory.
They named themselves after Worst King and think all successors were less than themselves for a reason.
Teclis is Cothiquen. He's a dour and liberal adventurer.
If anyone creates a new kingdom, its Teclis. If anyone just wanted to stand with a bigger leader, its Imrik.
>>46485178
>>46485210
Yeah, came to that conclusion already but thanks anyway.
>>46489195
I have a feeling the Beastmen kits are not as old Tomb Kings.
Any Order models that got discontinued, but which were plastic and not characters probably comes down to them possibly not really carrying their weight and GW viewing them as superfluous. They could also have new kits in the works.
Spirits are their own faction of sorts in AoS. Throgg I'm not really sure about since he is briefly mentioned in one of the AoS books.
GW has no control over what FW keeps in stock. Considering a lot of relatively popular models got axed on the 40k side, it's likely a case of the molds no longer being usable or being seen as worth repairing.
>>46489236
Speaking of Imrik how do the reaper dragons look as mounts?
>>46489173
Agree to disagree on Karl Franz. Personally I feel that his warhammer fluff was his "coming of age" that got people asking "is he the sigmar/magnus of a new age?" and that the end times, and his actions after, would have proved that he was. The empire should have come out of the end times stronger, Like it has from pretty much every other major invasion, not split up. For the next few decades its going to be a rebuilding phase, but in a generation or 2 the end times would have been a historical event, and a new age of progress can begin. Moving setting forward a few hundred years allows us to explore new heroes, new developments in factions, and now the turmoil of the end times shaped things in the along term.
Also, sorry, but i hate the whole concept of the Norscan of Salkalten. A norscan turning to the worship of southern gods despite their absolute belief that the chaos gods are the strongest? imperials being lead by a norscan? Norscans doing anything in the wake of end times but being chaos chaff? its a no from me.
>>46474810
What, you think it isn't?
The problem, and he makes this point in the video, is that CA go on about "muh lore" for some aspects of their gameplay (regional occupancy), but then they go and do completely lore unfriendly shit such as that. CA have got to pick a side and stick with it.
>>46489156
>entitled
Wew. How is he an "entitled prick" exactly? He's actually praised quite a bit of the work CA has done and is still just cautiously optimistic on the whole.
>>46489126
anon, did we read the same fluff? This is what i found in my version of it, and it shits on everything you just said
>>46489385
Some TK kits were 8e era.
>>46489385
The Beastmen are the least popular faction, and the TK kits are not that old actually.
Not only that, but ALL TK were squatted while in armies like High Elves older kits were dropped. Not only older kits, but most of them.
>>46489399
Haven't tried, but they are in the same scale. GW rider legs are only built for a flat posture, so you'd need to make a saddle or use different legs.
>>46489510
The heroes sank with Ulthuan.
Only the wicked and the traitors sided with the Bastard of Aenarion.
>>46489542
How many, two?
>>46489612
Beastmen have cross over appeal. AoS has no restrictions on army construction so a person may decide to add a few Beastmen units to their army because it fits the lore.
In my opinion, any kit that was dropped was done so either because GW didn't view it as fitting into their current plans or they have a new kit in the pipes.
For example, of the High Elf factions in AoS, Spearmen really don't fit into any of them.
>>46489510
Does it? I mean, I read this and I see hatred for his fellow High Elves (in Tiranoc and Nagarythe) and a recognition that Malekith is the key to victory, falling in line with my Teclis argument of needing Malekith to unite the elves.
>>46489413
If Karl Franz were to come back, it also helps dillute the character of the Empire that GW had been doing by removing the Ulricans and weirder knightly orders. I want that diversity back.
As for the Norscan of Salkalten, it's been poorly explained. The idea is to crib off Beowulf, which was itself a story about a Viking warlord in a time when the Norse gods were dying and Scandinavia was converting to Christendom. For a quick run-through...
Olaf was a Norscan marauder same as the rest, tagging along on the greatest raid the world had ever seen and following the veritable herald of the gods and the end times, Archaon the Everchosen. The world was supposed to end. The gods were supposed to walk the earth. All of the shaman stories were meant to come true. But the only god he saw at Middenheim was Valten, and he felled Archaon and promptly died as a result. A crisis of faith shook the Norscan. The Times didn't End. Archaon, the greatest of the Everchosen, died. And the gods failed. Bitter and angry, he began returning with the rest of his clansmen, back to Norsca.
However, on his way, he continued to be angry and disbelieving in the gods. And so he left the campaign trail and went to Ostland, one of the fertile grounds of the Empire that Chaos had conquered. If the gods had failed they were not deserving of his reverence. What had he to fear of FOUR gods who could be defeated by the herald of ONE weak southern deity? And they would not grant him eternal battle in the afterlife, so he might as well carve out an earldom of his own on this earth in this life. He took a few of his men with them, promising them booty and war and glory, and traveled to Salkalten, a shattered shell of an Ostlander city.
>>46489704
The elf fluff for endhammer is way worse than the actual endtimes fluff and thats a pretty big achievement. The only way High elves EVER unite with Malekith is if he is the literal chosen of Asuryan, or he pulls the widow maker and the weak willed high elves also get pulled by his side. This whole plot relies on the majority of the high elves being retarded enough to follow Teclis with a level of obedience they hardly follow their king with. At some point, someone in the ulthuan courts would call bullshit on Teclis' claims, and probably have him imprisoned or exiled for lunatic claims like "Malekith is supposed to be our king." Teclis can't manipulate an entire fucking race, and this plot makes Tyrion seem like the one reasonable guy in an island full of head up ass incompetent fools who decide that one mage has the authority to declare a 6000 feud over.
In an attempt to create better fluff than end times, this particular bit is fucking terrible and whoever made it should be ashamed of themselves for thinking this is an improvement over what we actually got.
>>46489413
>>46490219
In Salkalten, our Norscan warlord (Olaf the Godhater or simply Olaf Godhater) encounters a mighty beast in the castle's keep. A Chaos Troll who remained behind and has been feasting on what few Ostlander refugees live in the forests around the city and the Chaos marauders who have been returning from Middnehim. (Some suggested a Dragon Ogre, but that seems too big to me). Olaf, a mighty warrior in his own right, manages to slay the beast with the help of his huscarls and sets himself up in the shattered mayoral estate of Salkalten (Wolfenberg having been utterly fucked and the Knights of the Bull totally corrupted by Chaos, I felt Salkalten was better).
Ostlander woodsmen begin returning to Salkalten when they hear tell of men living there once more, but are frightened away by the presence of Norscans. That is, until they see Olaf's men butcher a group of Kurgans coming through, as they jealously guard their new prize. Finally, one of the woodsmen is sent as an emissary, who the Norscans promptly try to kill, until Olaf intervenes. The city is broken. Clearing out the mayoral estate was enough work. He needs labor if he's going to rule a city.
So, he begins accepting the Ostlanders into the city, and in return, he and his Norscans provide protection (and no longer following Chaos, some are converted by the locals to worship Ursun or Ulric or Taal or Tor or Manaan, already a Norscan god in his own right, albeit with a different aspect -- familiar, Old Gods). Olaf, of course, remains disdainful of the gods, but carves out his petty kingdom and wins people over through fear and a twisted subservience-turned-loyalty.
>>46490245
The only way to fix ET Elves is to axe Khaine entirely.
>>46490245
Are you retarded, dude? It's like you're reading a sentence here and a sentence there and then making the rest of the shit up.
Teclis doesn't just say "Malekith's the leader guys, he was supposed to be." It's left ambiguous but heavily hinted that Teclis provided the wards for Malekith to pass through the fire, thus successfully passing him off as King. Tyrion and his loyalists (not just Tyrion, I don't know how you've missed this again and again) leave. Alarielle is barely convinced by necessity of the End Times. The rest of the High Elves are only onboard AFTER Tyrion pulls widowmaker and becomes a greater threat.
Teclis doesn't just "convince everybody." He pulls a con and then convinces Alarielle (barely, because she betrays and leaves Malekith once the crisis is averted), who convinces her people. And not even all of them. Half of them follow Tyrion away!
>>46490219
I don't see any hatred for Tiranoc or Nagarythe there, simple acknowledgement that Caledor doesn't hate the Dark Elves as much as them.
>>46490219
>>46490219
>I read this and I see hatred for his fellow High Elves (in Tiranoc and Nagarythe)
so you are looking at different fluff when you see this. Reading comprehension anon. Caledor doesn't hate the dark elves on the same level that Tiranoc and Nagarythe do because they didn't have their lands directly fucked during the sundering. Tiranoc lost most of its vast lands, and Nagarythe still bears the stigma of being the home of malekiths court. Caledorians Hate the dark elves too, but it isn't at dwarf slayer levels of hatred like their neighbors.
Also, imrik just accepts his role in events that are beyond mortal control, its entirely the opposite of the claim that he betrayed his people for personal gain. He now sees himself as a pawn in a destiny decided long before his time. Take away this aspect and change it to Teclis just scheming, and it become retarded.
>>46490219
>For a quick run-through...
Ok, that is some respectable fluff there, though i like the idea of him as setting up an independent faction rather than uniting the empire.
But the empire doesn't need to be in 3 emperors state to have diversity, they always had diversity. Their rulebook even says they thrive because of diversity, not in spite of it. Diversity in a whole, and under the control of a great leader, can achieve much more than a bunch of smaller factions. Theres no reason the empire isn't getting more diverse, with all the refugees from Tilea, Estalia and Kislev, as well as the displaced dwarfs and migrating ogres. Bringing Karl Franz back ensures that the empire will survive, and does nothing to dilute diversity
>>46489236
Caledor the first was the best phoenix king of them all.
don't know if this is the right place to ask, but where's a good place to start for wh40k literature? I don't like the tabletop and I'm not a fan of the video games but the universe fascinates me, and I want to at least try a warhammer novel.
>>46490439
There is still absolutely no reason Teclis would ever think that Malekith would be a better leader unless the gods told him so, this being a plan he came up with is divine levels of retarded. There is still no reason for anyone, not alarielle, not malekith, not the majority of the high elves, to think that Teclis is telling the truth if he says Malekith is the chosen one. There is absolutely no reason Teclis has any credibility in ulthuan once he is revealed as a conspirator with Malekith. Imrik would never join Malekith unless Caledor Dragontamer told him to. There are so many plot holes in the endhammer version, and it isn't an improvement over the original at all. We are better off keeping the elves in the state they were in after the events of Archaon if we want retarded elf fluff.
Hell, while we're on about dumb plots for the elves, why not just have Teclis step through the flame? Maybe he tries to ward himself, but when he steps through Asuryan goes all "YOU ARE THE ONLY ELF PRAGMATIC ENOUGH TO UNITE MY PEOPLE" and makes Teclis the Legit Phoenix king?
>>46490405
Agreed. Even if it means something really cliche, like Tyrion overcoming his flaws to become the true phoenix king. Even if it means the elves never unite. The united elves under malekith seemed to number in the low tens of thousands if even that, since so many died in the civil war. Without that war there would have been far more high elves left to face chaos, the unity of races did nothing until they were all concentrated into Athel Loren, and even then theire numbers seemed really low.
