A vast empire of human controlled systems has just made contact with the imperium of man, they begin to invade and conquer outlying systems under the leadership of someone called vader.
This empire has thousands of ships deployed in the systems they are attacking and are moving between systems using a method of that doesn't use the warp.
What is the imperiums response?
>>46457046
Lightspeed, Uses plasma based weapons.
Thousands of ship for every system they are invading.
Without a doubt the imperium of man will fall, they can't mobilize fast enough.
It would take about 800 years to mobilize for war.
>>46457077
By then the zerg will have killed everything in the galaxy.
>>46457104
That's probably why the Emperor of mankind is preventing the plot from advancing he is giving the imperium time.
>>46457046
Imperial response
pic related
Star destroyers fight at slow sublight speeds and have short ranged weapons.
Imperium ships fight at comparably very long ranges and at great speeds according to BFG rulebook.
>>46458142
It's funny how space battles in 40k are more realistic than Star Wars.
>>46458193
That's what I like about 40k. Even though everything is in extremes they still have a base in reality, a minute one, but still there none the less.
This thread is just bait tho.
And vs fags are the worst kind of pond-scum.
>>46457046
>1.000.000 of Clone Troopers.
Are you even trying?
>>46457077
40k Imperial ships have ridiculous range compared to star wars ships, read page 6 of the BFG rulebook.
>>46460379
and to add to my post, 40k cruisers are bigger than imperial class SDs, so while Star Wars does have ships bigger than anything in 40k, their work-horses are smaller.
>>46458193
How is it funny? Star Wars is space fantasy, and starship combat isn't the focus of the setting. 40K is a wargame at its core. It would be silly if Star Wars somehow had more realistic combat.
>>46460752
its pretty funny considering how insane the setting is
although you could also say that sw has turned bretty crazy
>>46457046
Seriously? This shit again.... We had one literally two days ago (or so...)
1/10 for making me post.
>>46460494
Nope. That chart is utter shit and doesn't include Gloriana Class ships. Or for that matter Imperial Space Stations, which are bigger than the Death Star. Considerably.
Hell the Dark Angels alone could probably solo star wars thanks to the Rock.
Then everyone becomes best freinds and lives happily ever after the end.
>>46458646
Every clone trooper you shoot down, ten more will take his place.
I've found a 30k-Imperium Great Crusade (led by the Emperor/Primarchs) into Yuuzhan Vong-era divided Star Wars galaxy the more interesting scenario, especially since Imperium would be flat-out genocidal unlike the Empire
>>46457046
It's fucked, Star Wars travel is pin point precision warpless travel. They can simply kite around the imperium and force them to spread out to defend agri worlds and such or risk starvation of nearby hive worlds. Once sufficiently spread, massed numbers will ensure victory.
1v1 I doubt much can beat the imperium in terms of ships and strength of said ships but battles are won by supply lines and morale.
>>46457046
One of the worst threads on /tg/ right now.
>>46461957
Except there is only three million of them.
>>46461987
Which doesn't matter because Star Wars ships can't match 40k IOM ships. They can't destroy agri worlds when they don't even have exterminatus weapons and the local defense fleet will royally fuck them up. An Agri-World with just some Cobras would have some laughable kill ratios against Imperial Star Destroyers.
Reminder that Imperium ships don't need exterminatus weapons to blow up planets. They can simply dump enough fire into a planet with a moderate fleet to mass scatter a planet. Just ask Nostramo.
>>46461920
Episode 7 has a weaponized planet with a faster-than-light-speed canon that can destroy multiply planets with a single firing from a nearly infinite range thanks to hyperspace abuse.
That alone basically dismantles the 40k universe before they even realize what happened.
>>46462103
firing a cannon through the warp, what coulg possibly go wrong.
>>46462103
Which doesn't matter because it will be unlikely to penetrate planetary void shields. It could only be used to hit unimportant planets. And by then a Deathwatch Black Ship pops out of orbit and drops a cyclonic torpedo into it.
>>46462054
LOL. Doesn't matter if you have a billion planet killing weapons, if only 2% of them hit, the 10% of the enemy you can detect with your shitty sensors.
While yes, the IoM has superior range, they have a far less hit percentage and detection ratio. They fire football field size shells that mostly, miss. Star Destroyers on the other hand have pin point ftl drives, accurate sensors and decent hit percentage against targets of the same size groupings. In individual fights, the IoM gets it's shit pushed in on a regular basis and whenever they might not, Vader withdraws in less time then it takes to load a single IoM torpeado.
On a grand scale, Vader can't win. He doesn't have the logistics to support a continued invasion of sufficient speed to overcome the massive girth of the IoM. It's just too big and on the defense, their massive, slow size works.
That not even counting the likelihood of Vader becoming Tzeentch's bitch about 3 minutes after using a massive amount of the force while fueled by hate and rage. Beacon in the night.
Batman joins the fight.
>>46462054
Star Destroyers can conduct exterminatus.
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Exterminatus#Exterminatus-style_Destruction_in_Other_Fiction
>>46462054
>Except there is only three million of them.
10 more take his place.
If 3 million die.
It's thirty million.
If thirty million die.
It's...
>>46461987
>It's fucked, Star Wars travel is pin point precision warpless travel.
Nope. Star Wars FTL has to follow known hyperspace routes. Routes are difficult and slow to scout and map out.
In known space, with existing charts, SW FTL beats 40k FTL in almost every way, but in unknown space, without existing charts, 40k has superior freedom of movement. Of course they pay for that freedom of movement with daemons and other warp bullshit, but still.
>>46462343
The Imperium is perfectly accurate with their weapons across long distances, especially with lances. Meanwhile in Star Wars fights only engage at point blank range with highly inaccurate STL turbolasers. The Imperium meanwhile uses lance batteries that are literally laser accurate and macrocannon volleys which would be impossible for Star Wars ships to dodge given their high hypersonic railgun nature. Plus Star Wars ships can only take a couple hits from even a Cobra's weapons before being destroyed given that shield and armor in Star Wars ships is fucking awful.
Finally, Star Wars sensors are garbage. While they can -detect- ships at long ranges, they can't aim for shit. At all.
Also, you have to prove as well that Star Wars ships fight like you claim. Which they don't. The Empire especially never used tactical FTL to avoid projetiles. In fact the GE is incompetent as fuck given they often deploy without any escort craft at fucking all, instead spamming carriers like nobody's business while driving their ships very slowly right up into the enemy's faces for broadsides that take place at distances less than 100 kilometers even. Imperium ships meanwhile have sublight drives that allow them to move at a significant fraction of lightspeed and trade shots beyond visual range.
>>46462443
WRONG.
You can make a blind jump, You just don't know what's there or in-between the space.
The only reason roots exist is because they are safest to travel, you can jump directly to a planet from the other side of the galaxy sure.
You may not get there.. but you'll certainly jump and it may or may not be safe.
>>46462367
Tell him to join the club.
>>46462524
are they loyalists or traitors
>>46462299
> it will be unlikely to penetrate planetary void shields.
Why? Because you want to pretend that defenses designed to protect against conventional weapons that might have the capacity to withstand a weapon that can destroy a single planet should be able to withstand a hyperspace canon that can simultaneously destroy multiple planets millions of miles apart?
That's kind of like wishing that a bullet-proof vest might be able to save you from a direct hit from the main gun of a tank.
>>46462414
No they can't. Almost all of that was retconned, and now Base Delta Zero is back from Rebels, but it's just a light glassing. Additionally Star Wars ships like Imperial Star Destroyers only dish out megatons at most per shot. IOM ships unleash gigatons or even teratons of energy, and a fleet of IOM ships can mass scatter a fucking planet with their lances combining fire for a couple hours. The disparity in firepower is hilarious.
>>46462431
There are only three million clones. If you run out of three million, nobody takes their place. Because they're dead and it takes a fucking decade to make Kaminoan Clones.
>>46462552
Void shields protect against exterminatus you retard. Or are you not familiar with the Rock? This is the reason why troops even matter in the first place, as unless you bust down the void shields anything shielded may very well survive the exterminatus and end up drifting through space unharmed.
>>46462562
>three million
Where does this number come from? Because it sounds like a very low number to police a galaxy-spanning empire.
>>46462612
I suspect that is the amount of clones made for the Grand Army of the Republic back in the one movie.
>>46462612
The movies. The Kaminoans state that three million units of clones are ready, and "units" actually refers to individuals. Star Wars is actually fucking awful when it comes to numbers, even compared to 40k. The fleet of the Galactic Empire only consists of 25,000 Imperial Star Destroyers.
>>46461920
>That chart is utter shit and doesn't include Gloriana Class ships.
Anon, I...
The only queston that matters is how fast could each side reverse engener what the other side has?
>>46462505
>WRONG.
>You can make a blind jump,
Well, yeah, you CAN do that. It's just a complete roll of the dice whether you die or not. Not really a viable option in a military campaign.
>>46462505
>Traveling through hyperspace isn't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?
>b-but the Galactic Empire won't employ strategy or tactics which make use of their tremendous technological advantages. They'll just fight like idiots!
Guess this argument is over.
You're looking at a classic island-hopping campaign from the G.E. It doesn't matter if you run across the occasional Yamamoto or strongpoint - worst case scenario, you just ignore it and go cut their supply lines and let them cool their heels in the middle of fucking nowhere until it's convenient to kill/capture.
>>46462542
Considering how that dude in the center seems to have the head of an Inquisitor, they are most likely traitors.
>>46462676
>Imperium
>reverse engineering anything
AdMech called. They say you're a "01100110 01100001 01100111 01100111 01101111 01110100".
No idea what they meant.
>>46462648
star destroyers are capital ships and I recall the republic having a hard time centralizing power to undergo these projects because of all the conflicting interests
>>46462739
funny how that's the only thing that distinguishes them.
>>46462474
Really. So a battery of over a dozen guns per side on some of the heavy cruisers and you are lucky to take down a single void shield... accurate my ass. Lances hit at only 50%. Not perfect by any match. Try again moron.
Against same size targets, the SW sensors work great. Fighters hit fighters and cruisers hit cruisers. And they fuck them up. Fighters go in a single blast and crusiers over 2 km long can take maybe a 15 second broadside before crumpling and becoming a floating wreck. It's not that the defense are so shitty, you just can't see that the weapons are that good. You are an idiot. In less time then a single reload of a cannon, a Star Destroyer would completely decimate a IoM cruiser. The Cruiser would get one volley and die. If it didn't kill the SD, they it would be a gutted wreck. Rate of Fire on a SD is too fast for IoM.
Watch Jedi again you fool. The Rebel Alliance jumped into Endor just outside of gun range of their "Shitty Ranged" guns. Which is FAR inside the range of IoM guns. They knew where they needed to be and they jumped in that close. They can jump in closer. Vader wanted his Hoth invasion force to jump into orbit to suprise the Rebels. When he didn't get it, he choked a bitch. They can jump wherever they want to. IoM can't. Mobility win, Galactic Empire.
IoM cruisers are hammers compared to the dagger of the GE star destroyers. IF the IoM hits, yes, it will crumple a SD, and then be gutted before it could reload by the second SD. And that IF is pretty fucking huge.
>>46462431
That's some impressive math and all, but he was talking about things within the realm of reason, not pulling clones out of an alternate dimension made entirely out of human meat.
A lot of sources say that there were only 3 million clones in the Clone Wars. Whether or not that's true, they can't just keep pumping out exponential amounts.
>>46458349
>>46458193
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>46462542
They're Night Lords. I'd like to see them get loose on a Star Destroyer
>>46462836
that's just excessive the crew would never survive
>>46462788
>They knew where they needed to be and they jumped in that close. They can jump in closer. Vader wanted his Hoth invasion force to jump into orbit to suprise the Rebels. When he didn't get it, he choked a bitch. They can jump wherever they want to. IoM can't. Mobility win, Galactic Empire.
You might have a point, if this was taking place in the star wars galaxy that has hyperspace routes plenty well mapped.
>"You're off the edge of the map, here there be monsters."
ITT: Dick measuring 101
>>46462836
One of them would live long enough to lead them to Coruscant
>>46462737
>Guess this argument is over.
It is. You are posting as if the Galactic Empire will act if YOU were the Emperor controlling it. What matters is how the EMPIRE will canonically act based off their behavior in the canon. Which is incredibly stupid, lacking in any intelligent tactics when it comes to "naval" warfare as see in Episode V or VI where eager captains charge out of formation, or they simply get a shitload of ISD2's and throw them at the enemy with zero fucking escort craft to speak of. Which would be like blindly flinging a carrier group at something and wondering why it lost when you had nothing to defend them but the fighters stationed on them.
It doesn't help either that the GE makes zero use of tactical FTL in canon.
>>46462602
I mentioned that.
>you want to pretend that defenses designed to protect against conventional weapons that might have the capacity to withstand a weapon that can destroy a single planet
Exterminatus is the process that doesn't even really destroy a planet, only wipes out all life on it.
That's hardly anything even compared to the original Death Star's power, which vaporizes the entire planet, and the Starkiller is several magnitudes more powerful.
If anything, the "bulletproof vest vs. tank round" would be more of a satisfactory analogy for just the void shield vs. the original Death Star, with the void shield vs. the Star Killer being more like a vest vs. a nuke.
>>46462788
>using game stats
Okay, well armada says lances always hit, so your argument is shit.
>Getting in range to fire anything
Read the BFG rules. Most engagements are targeting sensor blips untill one side decides to try and board, ram or attempts to run.
>Unlimited mobility
This always gets brought up, but hyperspace only works well when you have target coordinates. Unless the Empire some how managed to map out hyperspace routes through every planet they plan on hitting, they're jumping blind, which is a terrible fucking thing to do.
>>46462903
SW ships cant make in system jumps due to the effects of gravity wells
>>46462788
>Fighters hit fighters and cruisers hit cruisers.
Because they are shooting at each other so close they might as well ram each other.
Yes, the SD can kill the Cobra IF the Cobra lets the SD get that close. Also the Void Shields in 40k, unlike the ones in SW, actually do something.
>>46462921
A thing to consider is /how/ the shield works. Star Wars shields deflect/absorb/whatever attacks.
IIRC, void shields dump the attack into the warp. Doesn't matter how big it is if it's in hell instead of here.
>>46457046
Given the empires complete control of the electromagnetic spectrum (regularly we see jamming references) it's entirely possible the imperium wouldn't even be aware they were being invaded until late in the game.
Given the time it takes to mobilize, they would just slowly get steamrolled at the edges.
An invader who can move ships freely while you are stuck is a nightmare at the galactic level- for every ship you deploy to bumfuck nowhere, you are leaving behind a ship guarding a world that could "matter". The over reliance on a few worlds that still have decent tech is a huge handicap- especially when you consider the Galactic Empire readily uses planet-killing superweapons that can, as seen in TFA, cross the galaxy (technically that was the First Order, but given that the empire shit out the Death Star 2 in about a year it's not unreasonable that by the time the imperium could mount a coherent defense you would see Star Killer base-levels of construction, or simply more Death Stars).
Now the imperium certainly has the ground advantage, but in a space setting the ground hardly matter when "turn the surface to to slag" is a legitimate option to a star destroyer.
It would, in all honesty, just result in a Fuckton of new minis being sold at a massive premium, a new faction into the meat grinder that is 40k, and butthurt fans.
>>46462980
>it's entirely possible the imperium wouldn't even be aware they were being invaded until late in the game.
Imperium comms aren't electromagnetic, they are psychic.
>>46462903
I feel like the Imperium would do a lot better than the Galactic Empire just because it's what they do constantly.
In Star Wars, the Empire can get away with a lot of this stupid stuff, because they're already firmly in control. There's no big enemy states to fight, just a bunch of unruly rebels. Whereas the Imperium fights these kinds of enemies constantly.
But I'd like to think that the Galactic Empire would see the Tyranids, Orks, Necrons, and Chaos, and think "you know what, maybe we should team up with the only other humans around here".
And although initially distrustful, the Imperium of Man realizes that they could sure use the help, and brings in this powerful group with its strange fetish for buddhist psykers. With the proper indoctrination, of course.
>>46462676
>The only queston that matters is how fast could each side reverse engener what the other side has?
Not really. A lot of 40k tech is probably less advanced than the stuff they have in SW. Most of their mass produced technology follows the principles of big, robust, reliable and easy to maintain. To account for the vastly inconsistent tech base that needs to support it and the logistical requirement of Eternal War. Most of their shit needs to last forever and be serviceable by the most provincial of Enginseers and mechanics.
As a result, having the plans for most of their weapons would be worthless to the GE.
>"My Lord we have the plans for the enemies Lance Weapons."
>"Excellent, how long until you decipher its workings?"
>"Oh, well, we already have, it's actually quite simple."
>"Very good. Begin impliment-"
>"Ah, sorry, that's the thing, the huge turrets out mass any ship mounted weapons we've ever seen. The superstructure of our ships couldn't support them."
>"Surely you can make them smaller?"
>"Oh, yes. They can be scaled down easily, but then they wouldn't be capital ship grade any more and no use to us."
>"Can we not increase the power feed to the smaller versions?"
>"Increase it? Ah, yeah, that's the other thing. Our existing ships just can't support the power generation needed for these things. There just isn't enough space for that many reactors and attendant cooling systems."
>"So, these weapons are only really viable on fuckhuge ships that can support turret mountings the size of frigates and power generators on par with the Death Star."
>"Well, essentially, yes sir. We'd have to completely reinvent our industrial base and produce an entire new fleet to take advantage of these weapon designs."
>"Damn."
>>46463053
Oh shit, right, forgot that part somehow
>>46457046
Send the Ultramarines to handle it.
Serious answer is that currently there's no way to get into the Galaxy safely. The Tyranid invasion would cause this invasion fleet to slam into the mass of Bioships entering the Milky Way.
>>46462960
You have to remember that this is a hyperspace weapon. It's basically an enormous load of concentrated energy traveling in an alternate dimension, but with so much power that a portion bleeds through into our own, with most of its payload appearing directly on target at the end of its run.
If we say the Warp and Hyperspace are the same thing, than void shields are basically useless since the weapon wouldn't even interact with physical dimension with anything except a fragment of its delivery until it's at the core of the planet, and it would just be dumping that energy where it was going to end up anyway. And, if they're separate concepts, than the same applies except that it's not also killing a couple billion unfortunate daemons in its path.
We're talking about a straight-up stupidly powerful weapon designed to wipe out Star SYSTEMS from across the galaxy.
>>46463174
There's also the issue of not doing it correctly.
Do it wrong, and the new piece of equipment you just assembled either explodes, goes homicidal or turns into daemons.
>>46463291
>goes homicidal or turns into daemons
Yeah, that's the other thing. If the GE is invading the Imperiums turf ... the Imperium isn't the only thing around.
Chaos would look at the invading war fleet, thinking about all those delicious, supple, souls, unguarded by Wards or gellar fields....
>>46462921
Exterminatus means anything from the life eater virus to mass scattering a planet.
Caliban was mass scattered.
The void shields on the Rock did not burst and that's why the rock still exists, and the continent it existed on.
>>46457046
>YOU KNOW WHAT WE NEED??? WE NEED YET ANOTHER IMPERIUM VS -X- THREAD!!!
>LET'S DO STAR WARS AGAIN!!!
anyone have that picture where an admiral describes his tour of a fuckhuge star destroyer?
>>46464180
Here you go.
[ACU.png]
>>46463053
FTL comms, yes, but what are voxcasters? I'm fairly certain the Imperium doesn't use tactical psyker communications, but I could be wrong.
>>46463869
That's still adorably quaint compared to the Starkiller.
With superior recon and mobility, SW has all the pieces it needs to make the Starkiller the final note in the question "who wins?"
Nearly instantaneous destruction of literally anything from a galaxy-wide range with absolute precision from a mobile hyperspace-jumping planet base with an impenetrable shield?
It's point, click, win.
>>46464686
Usually there are astropaths with each general, squad level though coms are vox based.
>>46464765
But are commodores giving battle instructions to their flotilla via psyker?
Using ground as an example, I always figured that the highest Imperial authority was the one with the psyker comms, and everything below him was relegated to vox. Obviously less true in space, but still, astropaths aren't exactly ubiquitous, IIRC.
>>46457046
The Star Wars universe thinks a >1 million man army is huge...
I'm pretty sure the Imperium of Man's response is to throw a few hundred million guardsmen at them, using weapons far more powerful than the average Star Wars small arm, with a higher rate of mechanization and simply obliterate them.
>>46464858
>But are commodores giving battle instructions to their flotilla via psyker?
Yes. Every ship has a compliment of astropaths. It's not their ONLY method of short range comms, but is available if other methods are blocked somehow.
>>46464733
>With superior recon and mobility,
You can keep saying that all you want, but it doesn't make it true. They don't have superior recon or mobility outside of known and charted space.
In a new galaxy, exploration and mapping of viable hyperspace lanes would be a slow grinding process, taking years to cover a single sector.
>>46465490
Even if it had worse recon, which I won't argue with you since that point was already argued earlier, all that needs to be answered is the questions "Where are the planets and fleets we need to hit?"
They can then proceed to hop around the galaxy, devour stars, and systematically annihilate anything worth mention while the Imperium desperately tries to find the base and attack them before they jump across the galaxy again.
Really, it's an unfair weapon that makes everything in 40k look like children playing with peashooters. Simply destroying a planet in 40k is a huge deal, while the Star Killer vaporizes several in each shot with no practical consideration for range.
>Star Wars versus 40K
>again
Really, fuckers?
Why isn't the imperium just striking back?
Everyone's going on about how powerful the SW offensive will be and how strong the imperiums defence is. You're all forgetting that if the imperium is in a losing situation they might just send out an expeditionary fleet into enemy territory to burn everything.
>>46462737
>b-but the Imperium of Man won't employ strategy or tactics which make use of their tremendous resource and manpower advantages. They'll just fight like idiots!
Fixed that for you. Works both ways
>>46465965
Also, nothing would save them from the Mechanicus if they found out what kind of technology they're throwing around. They're mostly human so it's almost guaranteed that they'll take a personal interest in it.
>>46465680
>They can then proceed to hop around the galaxy
No, they fucking can't. You're not paying any attention to what people are saying, are you.
Hyperspace routes need to be scouted and mapped out. Finding and mapping hyperspace lanes wide enough for PLANET size vessels would take even longer.
Even allowing that the GE could move into the galaxy, seize enough territory, build a large enough industrial base, then construct a planet size weapon, all without any local faction fucking them long before it was finished, the thing would have shit mobility.
The Imperium would easily catch it then treat it the same way they treated the World Engine. They'd throw fleets at it until if was fucking dead.
>all that needs to be answered is the questions "Where are the planets and fleets we need to hit?"
Not to mention the fact they won't possess this information. They just gonna pull the locations of planets and fleets out their ass?
>>46462788
>Lances hit at only 50%
Lost me at that. Even the most accurate rifle in a battle situation would be lucky to get a single hit from hundreds fired. For literally any weapon ever designed and used in a battle situation a 50% hit ratio is mind blowingly high.
>>46465490
taking a decade to map a sector still puts them years ahead of the imperium forces acting against them.
>>46466086
>Even the most accurate rifle in a battle situation would be lucky to get a single hit from hundreds fired.
Uh... There's no beginning to how wrong you are. Putting aside the fact that Army troops are required to regularly achieve a greater-than-50% accuracy rate against targets, and their rifles often manage this task perfectly well, you have smart weapons like the Tomahawk:
>"...the United States has been employing naval-fired long range cruise missiles - the BGM-109, or "Tomahawk" - in combat operations since 1991, and the reality associated with operational malfunctions and other technical issues that arise from the employment of technologically advanced weapons systems are known all-too-well. During the Gulf War in 1991, 297 Tomahawks were attempted to be fired by the US Navy. Nine failed to leave their launch tubes, and six suffered booster malfunctions which caused them to fall into the water shortly after launch, representing a 5% failure rate on launch. Of the 282 missiles successfully launched, 245 hit their targets; 37 did not. The Pentagon claims that Iraq shot down between two and six Tomahawks, meaning that between 31 and 35 Tomahawks went "astray", or around 12% of the missiles launched. These calculations are consistent with the Pentagon's claims of an approximate 85% success rate for the Tomahawk during that conflict."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-ritter/the-trouble-with-missiles_b_8272280.html
I think you may be mistaking suppression fire, i.e., the "hundreds of rounds fired", for accurate fire. When soldiers shoot to kill, their weapons reliably back them up.
>>46466083
I'm not listening because what you're hoping to say doesn't matter.
You're hoping that there's something that the Imperium could do against the Starkiller, which had an impenetrable planetary shield. Even without it's ability to say "Nah, fuck this, I'm out of here", it's still a star-system destroying, impenetrable fortress that has reality-warping firepower that can hit targets from ranges that make "unfair" an understatement.
Literally the only way to destroy it is the way it was destroyed, by a series of fluke occurrences, with each of them considered an impossibility before they were accomplished.
The interplanetary shield was basically invulnerable, but it could be passed through with insider knowledge of the refresh rate by potentially a single ship going through hyperspace within the fraction of a second of a window there might be.
Han Solo (a legendary pilot who specialized in daring hyperspace jumps and was piloting a legendary spaceship that was likely the only ship he had mastered to the level that was necessary to make the attempt) managed to perform a hyper-drive jump with such precision that it it's doubtful that anyone else in the Star Wars universe could have achieved it, and certainly no one in the clumsy and clunky warping world of 40k. After that, it's the process of having someone who knows all the important weaknesses, and disabling them in turn before they're repaired.
I'm sorry, but you're trying to argue against a weapon that has a single, solitary weakness, and it's something that the Imperium just isn't equipped to handle. It's a weapon that was designed to be the final word, and it really is.
>>46466499
there's no gellar fields on the starkiller tho
>>46466640
It travels through hyperspace. I'd assume an equivalent.
>>46466499
>impenetrable planetary shield
Yes, because they've never faced that before. It's not like they have exterminatus grade Vortex weaponry capable of tearing open the fabric of reality.... oh wait.
>shield was basically invulnerable
You don't just get to declare something is magically invulnerable. Even if it's really, really, REALLY tough, it still has limits. Sending entire fleets with planet-cracking weaponry are well within the Imperiums means, even if they decided not to use the reality fucking Vortex weapons.
>>46466499
>which had an impenetrable planetary shield.
Impenetrable to the Resistance's available firepower is not the same as completely Impenetrable.
If there is one thing the Imperium is good at, it is firepower.
>>46466696
Hyperspace and the Warp have nothing in common. No such equivalent would exist.
>>46466696
Sadly the only thing they have in common is that they are being dimensions parallel to reality, the warp is literally an ocean of souls inhabited by demons, all hyperspace has is grav-shadows cast by planets in reality.
>>46464733
>impenetrable
Not to 40k weapons. Starkiller base would get casually smeared by meager Battlefleet.
>>46466750
>You don't just get to declare something is magically invulnerable.
I don't, but the Star Wars writers get to, and they did. I explained the one weakness it had, and that's specifically something the Imperium has incredible trouble with. It's needing a needle when all you've got is a hammer.
Also, entire fleets are hardly anything compared to an entire star system, and it's not like the Starkiller needs to simply sit back and take an assault. It can single-handedly obliterate complex regions of space with scattering beams of hyperspace energy.
It's sad, but anything you could try to send at it, the only thing that would work is a storm trooper traitor, a hyper-drive specialist pilot from a hyperdrive proficient universe, the Will of the Force awakening in a human avatar, and a wookie.
>>46466696
Necron Codex. The Necrons actually have hyperspace, but it's been invaded by Daemons. Any jump by a Star Wars ship would be through a compromised dimension filled with daemons that they possess zero defense against.
It's why the Necrons don't use hyperspace, because it's suicide.
>>46466956
Writers mean shit. Pull your hands off your dick and prove that the shield can resist firepower that can crack continents, let alone energy needed to mass scatter planets. The writers saying it's invulnerable means jack shit, the word is only in the context of the Resistance which HAS NO FLEET TO SPEAK OF. They only had snub fighters capable of unleashing kiloton blasts AT MOST. The Imperium meanwhile can fire one torpedo that, is not only capable of simply going straight through the shield as a physical object, but proceed to destroy the entire planet and turn it into an asteroid field.
Warsies are literally the worst. At least Trekkies aren't so autistic they actually understand what weapon yields are.
>>46467048
I'd expect they could clear a path to travel through if they only had some sort of.. I don't know... some kind of hyperspace weapon that can vaporize entire star systems or something like that.
>>46467165
You assume finite daemons.
The Galactic Empire is gonna be hilarously outnumbered. Depending on you source the IoM will have between a third to just as many space marines as tjere were clonetroopers. Then you have the imperial guard and planets like armageddon with a population of about 100 bilion people despite half the planet being covered in orks. Because of the orks their tithe is lowered from the usual to only several million men and several 100 thousand vehicles per batch. This is one planet under siege.
40k deals in some seriosly retarded numbers.
>>46467165
What?
That has fucking nothing to do with daemons. You don't defend your ship against daemons with a superlaser that can't even hit anything besides what's in front of it. You need gellar fields and psykers to defend your ship from possession and having your entire crew getting raped/eaten/sacrificed/possessed/etc. Without psykers or gellar fields the ship will be lost the second it jumps into hyperspace and turned into a daemonic buffet. They have absolutely no way to protect themselves from daemonic assault, especially when daemons can do whatever the hell they want.
The only place safe from Daemons is the materium, and even that's not staying safe for much longer.
On the bright side we now know that you're either a troll or retarded, and nothing you say can be trusted and can be thrown into the trash. Come back when you have proof that the Starkiller base can survive teraton broadsides for an hour.
>>46466463
>Battle situation
>taking slow aimed shots from a prone position on a range against a target that isn't trying their hardest to outshoot you, while also manuevering and using cover
>not realizing that those are mutually exclusive propositions unless you're some kind of sniper and those guys don't have 100% hit rates either.
My point is that a Lance weapon that hits 50% of the time in a combat situation is hugely impressive when compared against a modern age battleship who could fire dozens or even hundreds of rounds before scoring a hit at anything beyond point blank range.
Can we all just take into account for a fucking second that the Starkiller was part of the seventh movie? This is significantly beyond Vader's time, and I believe we're talking about the empire under Vader here. Any argument using the Starkiller as a trump card isn't a relevant argument.
>>46467138
>Writers mean shit. Pull your hands off your dick and prove that the shield can resist firepower that can crack continents, let alone energy needed to mass scatter planets. The writers saying it's invulnerable means jack shit,
Welcome to Fiction. First stop, realizing that if a writer says something, you're just going to have to deal with it. I'm sorry that frustrates you, but you can't just say "it doesn't work that way because I don't want it to and its not fair."
More importantly, you're talking about torpedos that don't even vaporize the planet. All they do is destablilize the core, cracking it apart. There's literally nothing in the Imperium's arsenal that even comes close to the level of destruction that even the first Death Star could accomplish, and that Death Star was specifically created as an answer to the planetary shields of that era. Fast forward several decades, and we're talking about planetary shields that simply say "No."
We're talking about the strongest planetary shield in the galaxy, protecting a star-system destroying canon that also conveniently is able to travel through hyperspace. It's on it's own level.
>>46467427
Especially when you realize that's against targets so far away they can't see anything and use biological computers to run all those necessary calculations. The human brain is actually excellent for use as a super computer for crunching numbers like that. You just have to be a heartless bastard and willing to lobotomize somebody to sever all higher thought and turn their mind purely into a number cruncher.
But do that and you're basically unrivaled when it comes to computer power unless somebody invents a quantum computer.
>>46467467
>We're talking about the strongest planetary shield in the galaxy
In Star Wars' galaxy. But they're stomping on someone else's turf now.
>>46467467
No it means nothing. Impenetrable is clearly used to refer to the Resistance and the fact they don't have anything that can pop the shield. Superman would obviously be able to penetrate those shields with a single punch, likewise so will Imperial bombardment.
Prove it's impenetrable. Show calcs that the shields can resist teratons of energy unleashed constantly for hours or you're using a thing called a "no limits fallacy", AKA a logical fallacy that is an improper argument. Unless you have proof, the adjective "impenetrable" does not matter.
>>46467467
The Imperium does actually have firepower more powerful than the Death Star. The Night Lords fleet destroyed Nostramo with combined lance fire. The planet exploded with so much energy that chunks of Nostramo can be found roughly 400 light years from its original location. Meaning the planet was mass scattered with so much force that the pieces of Nostramo were accelerated to a significant percentage of .C that they drifted into several star sectors away over the course of ten thousand years.
Oh and you lying shit, either you don't know the English language at all or you are in fact, a lying dishonest shit. Alderaan was not vaporized, there is a giant asteroid field formed form the planet's destruction. If it were vaporized there would be no asteroid field. Only vapor. Because that's what the word means.
>>46467530
A turf that doesn't even come close in terms of firepower.
>>46467531
>Impenetrable is clearly used to refer to the Resistance
Actually, the First Order designed it to be impenetrable in reference to even the capabilities of the old Empire, not merely the resistance. It was supposed to be a base that was a successor in every regard, and it's silly to think that one faction among many competitors would not have the capabilities to resist (and defeat) other Imperial factions.
If you want "proof" that it's impenetrable, you are in the wrong argument. If you really want to see the math, here it is.
They use "dark energy" technology. It's basically "the bullshit power needed to run an impenetrable shield alongside a star-system destroying canon."
There's all the proof you need of it's abilities to destroy several planets from halfway across the galaxy. Compared to that, a shield that resists mere teratons of energy is simply the cherry on top of a VERY large sundae.
Starkiller base and the death star got rekt by small fighter squadrons and ground teams ranging from rebel veterans and a jedi to two seniors and two rookies.
Are peoplr seriously suggesting that the IoM can't match that?
>>46467782
>A turf that doesn't even come close in terms of firepower.
[citation needed]
>>46467982
The Starkiller destroyed several planets from half a galaxy away just as punctuation for a speech.
>>46468012
Good for it? Now explain how a single (destroyed) superweapon somehow invalidates all of 40k's firepower.
>>46467802
The Imperium has a specific weakness compared to the Star Wars universe, and that is warp travel being unpredicable and imprecise compared to hyperspace travel.
One vital reason the Starkiller fell was a legendary hyperspace maneuver performed by Han Solo that was thought to be impossible until he performed it, and it required insider information of the planetary shield's refresh rate alongside a powerful guiding presence from the force.
IoM has a lot, but what it lacks is the specific tools required. It's ten thousand spoons, when all you need is a knife.
>>46468253
Why don't you read the thread. This argument has been dismantled about 3 times. For Star Wars FTL travel to be feasible, you need a set warp route. Han Solo was a legend, but now he's fucking dead. With a commandeered Millennium Falcon, and enough practice, I bet any Space Marine could do better.
>>46468153
We're talking about scale of power. The Star Wars planetary shields exist in a setting where there are star-system destroying weapons that eat suns.
Trying to say that 40k's has more impressive tech when it's happy about destroying a single planet doesn't really add up. I'm not trying to say that 40k's firepower isn't significant in volume or to invalidate it, but the Starkiller simply exists in another magnitude of scale.
It eats stars and shits death. It makes a halo or dyson sphere seem insignificant in comparison.
>>46468253
The resistance needed to pull off their impossible maneuvers because they lacked the firepower to breach the shield conventionally, because all they had on hand was snub fighters. The imperium is not so lacking in firepower.
>>46468419
40k's tech IS more impressive. Star Wars has world destroyers as notable things. 40k pops a few worlds, that's a tuesday.
>>46467782
Whats stopping something along the lines of a Terminator warp in that proceeds to melta bomb the crap out of everything? Or hell, a whole Grey Knights Interceptor attack?
Also, why the hell would the GE have the starkiller base? It has like, a build time of 40 years dude.
>>46468419
Death star shoots holy terra, gg
>>46468418
You can bet, but you're still talking about commandeering a legendary, one-of-a-kind spacecraft that was custom tuned and refitted by a legendary pilot who spent decades with it, and they still just barely avoided all dying in a horrible crash.
We're talking about Han Solo, who is not simply legendary in general, but legendary for specific feats of incredible hyperdrive navigation and feats of piloting dexterity, and was even aided by the guiding hand of the Force, and he barely got through.
It may literally have been the only circumstance in which any one person and any one ship in the entire hyper-drive proficient galaxy could have penetrated that planetary shield, and you forget that they first had to come up with the plan, and even after the decision there were still plenty of people who considered the idea impossible.
I know you have a hard-on for space marines, but really, this is the moment where you probably need to rethink how far your love for them goes.
>>46468615
Well said, sir. At least you're not a faggot like that other guy.
>>46467782
>Actually, the First Order designed it to be impenetrable in reference to even the capabilities of the old Empire, not merely the resistance. It was supposed to be a base that was a successor in every regard, and it's silly to think that one faction among many competitors would not have the capabilities to resist (and defeat) other Imperial factions.
PROVE
IT
>>46468772
Prove that it's not impenetrable.
So far, we've got military experts in the universe and the writers outside of it expressing it being impenetrable on one side, and on your side we've got the strange hope that they're not being literal just so that the Imperium stands a chance.
It's a sun-eating war fortress planet that can kill things from across half the galaxy and perhaps further, with the most powerful shields ever created by a civilization that needed to create planet-killing death beams to surmount the earlier models. It doesn't just have the power of an entire star at its beck and call, but a form of dark energy that amplifies that power to the point where they might as well turn an 8 sideways and call it a day.
I know you don't want 40k to "lose," but that may very well be what the Starkiller was designed to be: An ultimate weapon that puts Star Wars into a tier of science fiction that launches it firmly past other type-II civilizations and bordering on type-III.
Really. Vortex cannons ignores the fact that it has a powerful shield. It simply sucks the part that is struck into the warp. Assuming the shield replenishes instantaneously then it will lose a lot of power needed to maintain the shield to the warp. If not then that leaves a hole in the shield that can be exploited by planet cracking weapons.
That is to say unless the Imperium just get's lazy and pulls a Macragge on the planet and suck IT into the warp where it will be raped by demons. Now that's probably not very smart since you don't want to give Chaos that kind of weapon by hey, it's possible.
>>46469047
No limits fallacy. Your argument is just as nonsensical as saying to prove that unicorns don't exist. It's your first job to prove that the statement is not simple hyperbole.
>>46469047
Impenetrable is an impossibility therefor it can not be impenetrable. That is unless we involve a omnipotent being in which case it becomes a paradox.
Also type 3? Really? I doubt the First Order has access to all power of all the suns in the entire galaxy at once.
>>46469056
The power required for its shield is hardly a concern. We're talking about a planet that eats suns while converting them into a more powerful form of energy and can annihilate several planets from across half the galaxy. The energy required for that feat makes even a hundred layered planetary shields seem paltry in comparison.
It's an entirely different magnitude of power.
>>46469150
>Also type 3? Really? I doubt the First Order has access to all power of all the suns in the entire galaxy at once.
Not at once, but considering that they can devour stars at their leisure, that's certainly closer to tier III than tier II.
And remember, it's relative power. They're not simply harnessing the power of a single star, their dark energy research amplifies it exponentially, so that a single star ends up being worth considerably more.
I'lll admit that bordering type 3 might be pushing it, but can we agree on 2.5? I might be willing to say 2.4, but certainly not below 2.3.
>>46469047
Impenetrable to star wars tech, but when 40k's destroyers are as big as first order capital ships, the scale has to be taken in to account. Nova cannons are firing star wars ship sized rounds, and they can be attached to most imperium cruiser ships and above. That's not counting the freaky deaky ad mech shit, who have literally set a region of space on fire.
>>46469177
False. It uses the power of the eaten sun to power it's planetary weapon. It says nothing about using that power to light up any shields it might have. Eating a sun is all nice and that but unless it can use that power for defensive purposes, which we did not see it do, then it has a weakness.
Also when it fires it runs out of power. So say that it fires of it's gun, either at a fleet or a system. What then? It will need to get to a new star to reload, a process which takes time. What does it do then to counter massed Vortex and Cyclonic bombardment?
Or for that matter how does it counter being sucked into the warp if they pull a Macragge?
>>46468012
So?
The necrons that tuesday.
>>46469124
Strong enough to resist any known power seems to be a safe limit if you want to play the fallacy game. And, the strongest known power destroyed several planets from half a galaxy away, so that's pretty strong.
But, your only hope is that when the writers say something, they're wrong, so I guess I can start saying that about all of 40k, especially considering how bad they are with numbers and scales.
Either way, you're still hoping to contend 40k with a civilization that went from death star to starkiller in something like thirty years, when they're still relying on 10,000 year old technology.
Likely, in the next movie, they'll come out with a weapon that threatens the entire galaxy or something, while 40k will refuse to ever progress beyond the same point they've been stuck on for the last thirty years.
>>46469432
>Strong enough to resist any known power
[citation needed]
All the resistance had on hand was snubfighters, of course a planetary shield is gonna be impenetrable in that context. You are removing the context of them having a no heavy duty firepower to make the shield something it is not.
>>46469432
No limits fallacy again. You have no proof the statement is not hyperbole (which it obviously is if you're not autistic).
>>46469432
Eh. Bypass the shield. Teleport Assault Terminators into the command deck of the planet and the problem is dealt with.
>>46469047
>I know you don't want 40k to "lose," but that may very well be what the Starkiller was designed to be: An ultimate weapon that puts Star Wars into a tier of science fiction that launches it firmly past other type-II civilizations and bordering on type-III.
The necrons laugh at the fact that you think one planet sized star system destroyer is impressive. That's litteraly every tomb world.
Also C'tan fuck you up in every way imaginable.
There's a great difference between being able to be the IoM and beating 40k. Star wars just got wepaons that can blow up systems, necrons have had weapons that litteraly restart the enitre universe from the big bang since the dionsaurs died. Hell even the IoM has the ark mechanicus, which alone could fuck up the starkiller base. Though using that is kind of cheating. But archeotech would be used against them, and then star wars loses. Hope you like having your entire region of space set on fire.
>>46469531
yeah, that's the weakness demonstrated in the movie too
>>46469531
Even better. Just teleport virus bombs directly to the surface. Hard for the crew to do their thing if they are all dead and the atmosphere does not exist anymore.
>>46469488
You're adding hopeful assertions, and that's really all you're doing.
The planetary shield is described as being able to resist -any- bombardment. Not simply any rebel firepower, not simply all the factions that opposed them's firepower, -any- bombardment.
We're talking about a planet that has magnetic field containing a supernova in its core. Pretending that they'd be incapable of a (for all practical, physical purposes) impenetrable shield is not really appreciating the level of physics breaking insanity that makes any of the Starkiller work.
I know it's your only hope, but even if it's just a really strong shield, it's still a shield that's attached to a mobile planet that can wipe out entire fleets from half a galaxy away.
Hell, it just needs to find out about the Emperor's throne and deprive the Imperium not only its ability to navigate the warp, but likely the only reason for its continued existence.
>>46469793
Does not matter because it only describes Star Wars bombardment, and again, fucking hyperbole. Provide feats for the shield of it taking teratons of energy or we'll continue to call you out for being a troll/lying dishonest/retarded shitposter.
Have you even taken an English course yet? Do you even comprehend the meaning of hyperbole? Boy, you don't want to play that game with 40k.
What a stupid thread.
40k and Star Wars are completely different settings. The respective forms of unobtainium and magical science their sci-fi tech uses are not remotely equivalent nor would they be able to interact on any way whatsoever until someone officially writes about it, which is extraordinarily untilkely.
>>46469793
>blowing up the Golden Throne
Fucking kek.
>>46469793
And still you can't answer what it will do against teleport attacks or Warp related attacks.
And it still can only fire once before needing to reload with another star.
And it's only been described as resisting any kind of bombardment so that could all be propaganda and over confidence. I am sorry but there is no way that Starkiller base would change anything what so ever no matter how hard you try to suck Star wars cock.
>>46469531
>>46469691
Planet is primarily droid operated. It might even be potentially autonomous to a certain degree.
Still, the only way to get past the shield is by knowing about the specific refresh rate interval, which wasn't particularly easy knowledge to obtain.
>>46469952
Doesn't matter. Teleportation completely bypasses non-void shields.
>>46469863
Look, I get it that you like to repeat yourself when you're backed into a corner, but you're really just offering nothing but hopes and prayers.
You've got hypothetical hopes, compared to expressed statements that you are PRAYING are hyperbole. And, at the end of the day, there's still a weapon that is killing planets from HALF THE GALAXY AWAY.
HALF THE GALAXY AWAY.
Do you understand? If they get coordinates, that's the end of the story.
You've tried to argue about shutting down their ability to navigate hyperspace, tried to pray away the effectiveness of their shields, and now your last hope is that these guys don't have a telescope.
>>46469952
Did not see a single droid on that planet. Not that it matters when it all gets melted by a Meltgun or stomped by power armor.
Also teleporting ignores Star Wars shields
>>46469987
How does teleportation work?
>>46469917
What's the joke?
>>46470096
>Implying the Chaos gods will allow the Emperor to finally die so he can be reborn.
>>46470045
>Getting coordinates
>when they can't hyperspace because they don't have those coordinates
gl hf
>>46470045
>You've got hypothetical hopes, compared to expressed statements that you are PRAYING are hyperbole. And, at the end of the day, there's still a weapon that is killing planets from HALF THE GALAXY AWAY.
Not him, but that statement is definitely hyperbole. As shown in the movie itself, it's not 100% impenetrable, meaning that statement is not fact, which means it is by definition hyperbole.
Also, 40k has quite a few weapons like that. The imperium of man can't deploy them except in the most dire of times because they are archetech, but it still exists
>>46470132
Chaos Gods<Force.
Polytheistic entities lose out to Monotheistic ones, if you want to bring that whole business into play.
>>46470175
Maximum fucking kek. Never have I laughed so hard.
>>46470148
> As shown in the movie itself, it's not 100% impenetrable
By bombardment? Yes, by the movie, it's 100% impenetrable while it's shields are fully operational. Beyond that, it was only bypassed by a freak occurrence of a daredevil pilot performing what was considered an impossible feat while relying on insider information.
>>46470070
Teleportation in 40k rips open a portal through the warp into another location. Basically you need dimensional shielding like void shields to keep them from attacking you. Otherwise they pass right through hell. Necrons do it differently for obvious reasons, but IIRC also use dimensional fuckery.
>>46470070
They basically jump through the warp, going through any physical obstructions by simply not being in that dimension. It doesn't matter what kind of shielding you have, since the way it works is by basically taking a short cut through another dimension.
>>46470096
emps dies then nobody to stop all of mankind from explodong into infinte daemons. So, kill the emprah and you at most get a pyrrhic victory against the imperium of man, and then proceed to die to all the daemons who will murder you, rape you and murder-rape you.
>>46470096
The Emperor is the only force holding back the Chaos Gods from consuming the material universe.
Once he dies, all is lost. The warp spills into the materium and becomes one with it, reality becomes another dimension to be ruled and corrupted by daemonkind. Mankind and all other races are enslaved by daemons as reality becomes literal hell on earth. It's why people tend to laugh at the idea of killing the Emperor if you're not in with Chaos. Cause you'll fucking lose big time if you shoot the guy keeping the door to hell shut.
>>46470175
Holy shit no. Tell me when the force can swallow whole star systems, teleport you through time or give you crazy mutations.
>>46470264
It's relatively short distance though, considering that all warp jumps can't be longer than a few lightyears with any degree of precision.
With a range of half a galaxy, a fleet might take several months to reach the Starkiller while being in their range the entire time.
>>46470257
>Yes, by the movie, it's 100% impenetrable while it's shields are fully operational
Really? Even to weapns that destroy enitre sector, like the bomb used at the end of montka and kauyon? Or hell, even to the gun on the stardestroyer base itself? No. None of that was shown, so you have no proof.
I see you autism, and match it as I once did to carnac. I DEMAND PROOFS.
>>46470307
>>46470309
But what about the emperor getting reborn?
>>46470132
>>46470312
The Force uses more subtle methods to achieve greater ends. A teenager blew up the most powerful space station ever built, and a old man and his dog blew up a planet.
>>46470459
Unknown. Things are confusing now as the Emperor may be a perpetual. Gotta love the Black Library.
>The Force uses more subtle methods to achieve greater ends. A teenager blew up the most powerful space station ever built, and a old man and his dog blew up a planet.
That's fucking tuesday for Daemons, let alone Chaos Gods. Daemons can possess and blow up stars.
>>46470379
>PROOFS
>"Starkiller Base was protected by a planetary shield that was strong enough to deflect any bombardment"
I don't know what else to tell you. You want to say this isn't true, but you've really got nothing on your end to discredit this aside from hopes and dreams.
>>46470526
Daemons are cosmic entities.
Chewbacca is like... 75% shitzu.
>>46470563
Can we bring up warp teleportation again? The IoM would be able to teleport any number of things onto the surface that could blow it (literally in some cases) to hell and back.
>>46470459
Yeah, and chaos brought down the culmination of all of humanity's efforts and created a never ending cycle of suffering to feed off of.
>>46470607
Just like they do with every one of their enemies right? They've already won right? No? So clearly it isn't that simple.
>>46470612
And, the Force is a monotheistic pseudoentity that essentially controls the entire universe and is responsible for everything ever.
>>46470656
To the point where they introduced a creator/origin deity structure about the light and dark side and the being above them, their "father".
Also a chaos entity.
God those books sucked.
>>46470563
Which still isn't proof. That's hyperbole anon.
>>46470840
If that's all you've got left, I guess I can consider you done.
I'm glad you've presented all that proof of the shield not being strong enough to deflect any bombardment, y'know, that mountain of evidence you've got, that towering pile of immaculate proof that isn't just you hoping and praying, but I think I'm going to have to take a dictionary definition over your wishes and dreams.
>>46457046
I take it you didn't know that mapping the galaxy took literally thousands of years in Star Wars and without those maps they are reduced to a slower crawl then the Imperium at it's worst.
The Imperium just need a single known, fixed point in the galaxy or they go one third their normal speed by warp skimming.
So if the Galactic Empire was to invade 40k they'd be travelling even slower then the Imperium. They would never stand a chance.
>>46470563
>>"Starkiller Base was protected by a planetary shield that was strong enough to deflect any bombardment"
Silly fool, is not proof.
Imperium of man say it can never fall, and it has yet to. By your logic, is proof imperium will not fall, and thus it wins battle.
Either give real proofs, or accept taht the imperium wins.
>800 years
One hundred, 100, days is the canononical response time to get a sector fleet to respond to an unexpected attack that takes out long ranged communication before an SOS can get sent.
>>46470953
Let's take a step back here.
The shield generator on hoth was strong enough to "resist any bombardment".
Specifically, the entire fleet at Vader's disposal could not have broken through.
They also could not land within its perimeter, and were forced to instead launch a surface attack.
That shield was powered by it's "Main power generator", a single building.
The shield on Starkiller Base is powered by a star eating planet, and is decades more advanced.
>>46470953
>I'm glad you've presented all that proof of the shield not being strong enough to deflect any bombardment, y'know, that mountain of evidence you've got, that towering pile of immaculate proof that isn't just you hoping and praying, but I think I'm going to have to take a dictionary definition over your wishes and dreams.
You have one quote. Don't act like that's a mountian of evidence, or else the crazt slav is right
>>46471047
>>46457046
Can they pun ch though void shields reliably?
Probably not?
So IoM eventual victory.
Seriously pretty much anything involving 40k navy or titans comes down to void shields.
>>46471095
One quote from a reference book.
Either way, It's considerably more than than the evidence presented against it, which has been... what? A pitiful whimper of "hyperbole"?
>>46470649
The answer is elegant in its simplicity:
During first contact fleets will collide, they have to. At least one of those ships would eventually be an IoM ship that uses boarding actions against the GE and one of those actions will (eventually) succeed. Provided the IoM manages to crack the data through Mechanicus shenanigans or through torturing the GE crew. Perhaps the location and existence of the Star Killer will be revealed, perhaps it will be hinted at, perhaps it will come out in torture sessions with some Inquisitors. Eventually be tracking leads and some good old fashion Grim Dark attrition Naval action the capabilities and location will come to be known. Something that big can't be fucking invisible.
a deathwatch ship (Extra ultra elite Space Marines) is sent into orbit over the Star Killer, escorted by other IoM ships. Companies of Marines are teleported in with plasma bombs and neutralize the command staff and the shield generators. The Star Killer is then either demolished for its affront to the Omnisiah or taken as another base for the Navy or perhaps a Fleetborn Space Marine Chapter.
Meanwhile all this action, drawing away dozens or even hundreds of IoM ships causes another hundred systems to fall to the Orks, Tau, or Tyranids, and the IoM continues its slow, grinding, writhing death.
>>46471223
No, I mean he's right in saying that the imperium has siad it won't fall, which, by your logic, means that it won't fall, because no evidence exists to the contrary, meaning that you auto-lose the battle because the imperium can't lose. Either accept hyperbole to be a thing, or lose.
>>46471242
See here's the thing, i admit i lack any knowledge of 40k beyond what you've posted, so i will take it 100% at face value.
If they can do that stuff with teleporting bombs everywhere, how do they have enemies that aren't exploded? If the assumption is solely that SW/GE shields are unable to stop it, i don't know if thats really a fair way to look at it. If it isn't, then i'd like to know more.
>>46467259
>>46471289
That's explicitly in-universe propaganda.
It's not like the Orks ever said that the Imperium would never fall.
And, the whole "strong enough to deflect any bombardment" is both stated in AND out of universe, by the rebels and the order. It's basically stated as an understood fact, not exaggeration or hyperbole.
Are you legitimately retarded?
>>46471422
But has it been tested? Claims are just claims, with nothing to back them up.
>>46471311
Teleports are extremely expensive and are relatively short range (within the star system). From what I remember they're used as a form of transport on the Table Top as a form of 'deep strike', putting melee troops from off the table into the midst of the enemy combatants.
In ship to ship combat the teleporters are used as part of boarding actions, usually trying to place the marines close to the command bridge of the ship and then take the bridge and vent the rest of the ship.
All this is prevented however by Void Shields, which prevent the 'dimension door' teleporters.
From Google:
>Void Shields use Imperial Warp-based technology to displace ranged attacks by subtly distorting the localized space-time around the point of impact. It is unclear whether Void Shields neutralize the projectile or energy beam, transport it into the Warp, or whether they use some other method to displace the damaging force of a physical attack upon the vehicle or vessel.
> Imperial Void Shields can be re-activated after being collapsed, even during battle. In combat, Void Shields do not protect from close combat assaults or other vehicles moving through them to then attack the shielded vehicle or vessel.
>Such shields are also used by Imperial military and civilian starships to survive the hostile environment that is the vacuum of space. Shields form an invisible band of energy around the vessel, a variable layer of force that can absorb radiation, interstellar dust, and particle showers as well as weapon hits. Shields have a maximum tolerance and can be overloaded by sustained weapons fire or massive collisions, forcing the generators to shut down temporarily to vent the excess kinetic or direct energy.
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Void_Shield
>>46471311
Because there are only a handful of enemies so weak that they can be fucked by killing a single planet, and precious few times that killing one planet is worth those resources. Anything that has a mere planet of force is basically irrelevant to the IoM's general command, and their response is to the local warlord 'fuck you, you deal with it, that's why we put you there'.
The Imperium coudl obliterate any given enemy it has. Its problem is that it has endless enemies and limited magical bullshit. They are effectively Germany 1944 - they could focus and win victories wherever they want but that would always mean losing other things.
The Starkiller Base is mean enough to be worth killing.
The IoM have dealt with planet-sized supernova-powered world slayers with shields so powerful they are impenetrable to conventional bombardment before. They teleported into shitloads of dudes to blow it up from the inside. They killed it, but lost many worlds before they killed it, and lost many valuable forces in killing it, meaning their victory cost them enough to make it tantamount to a defeat, because that is just how 40K works.
Starkiller base would be a big deal and kill a whole bunch of planets before it died, and be brought down at way too high a cast, but it would be stopped. Like the planet that blew up planets before it, and the one before that, and the one before that.
I'm still not sure how this is relevant since the question was about the Vader-era Empire, which didn't have Stakiller Base.
>>46471607
>Void shields are found on both civilian and military starships so that they may survive the hazards of space travel. Forming a teardrop of invisible energy around the ship, they are able to absorb and deflect stellar radiation and meteor showers, even weapons fire in the case of military vessels. Ships are protected by multiple layers of void shields, each one able to absorb a limited amount of energy before it collapses and the generator temporarily shuts down to bleed off energy.[25a][26] Active void shields also prevent the use of teleportation, forcing enemy ships to bring down their target's defenses before they can initiate boarding actions.[25c] It is also possible for a ship to shift power between different facings of their void shields to better deflect attack.[27]
As with smaller void shields those on ships are projected some distance from the vessel, upwards of a hundred or more depending on the type.[28] Normally void shields provide no barrier against Attack Craft and Torpedoes, and thus any which get through can cause direct damage to the vessel.[25b] However, void shields have stopped torpedo and attack craft on several occasions.[29][30][31][32] In addition a warship simply raising it's void shields presents a danger to attack craft as the flux of energy backwash can overload their systems, while the massive energy flares created by weapon impacts on the void shields are extremely hazardous. Finally when a ship's void shields collapse they create a powerful shockwave of electromagnetic energy which can scatter and destroy attack craft.[33b]
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Void_shield
>>46471574
It's not a "claim." It's an out-of-universe statement, as part of the base's entry in an official reference book, which is really one of the few things we can actually rely upon.
Is there really any "evidence" to claim otherwise? Anything at all?
>>46471635
>The IoM have dealt with planet-sized supernova-powered world slayers with shields so powerful they are impenetrable to conventional bombardment before.
Citation needed.
>>46462524
Kanjiklub?
>>46471223
That reference book also says durasteel is weaker than titanium, yet star wars ships don't instantly peel apart at high velocities.
I see you're new here kid, but nobody, at least nobody with a brain, has ever taken the visual guide/incredible cross sections serious. They're always filled with nonsense that does not reflect what is on screen.
>>46471745
You know that our space shuttles are made with aluminum skin and structure, right?
>>46471736
The world engine. http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/World_Engine
A better necron version of Starkiller that got destroyed
>>46471890
>http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/World_Engine
From that page itself it's obvious that it's several magnitudes weaker in terms of armament. While certainly "world slaying", since it can kill the life on the planet, this is hardly even close to destroying a planet, and still a magnitude beneath destroying several planets, and still a magnitude beneath destroying several planets from half a galaxy away.
As far as defenses, they were bypassed by being rammed by a ship, and the planetary shield of the Starkiller was said that it "could not be penetrated by any ship traveling at sublight speeds." From this, even with the ramming ship being a flagship of the imperial navy, we can assume that the Starkiller may actually have considerably stronger shields than the World Engine.
If anything, the fact that 15 marine task forces with additional navy assistance were unable to breach the World Engines defenses which can be considered inferior to the Starkiller's, and that the World Engine was considered a significant threat to the Imperium while being substantially underarmed, it's safe to say that the Imperium would be hardpressed to match up against the Starkiller.
>>46472103
>Weapons that flay molecules apart are somehow weaker than muh super torpedoes
>World Engines shields are also described as impenetrable.
>IoM ships are still on a completely different scale than Empire ships, IoM escorts being the same size as an ISD
>Necrons are a tier above Empire on the tech tree, since they have a device to remotely supernova any start they want to
>It still gets blown the fuck up.
>Starkiller still isn't in vaders timeline
>you still have no co-ordinates.
>>46472103
'Inferior'
>>Are you shitting me?
>>Ignoring Blackstone Fortresses
>>Ignoring Krukal'Righ
>>Ignoring the fact that it is a ship with a DAoT machine spirit and is prolly older than the Imperium itself
>>Making BS assumptions with no basis, save for hearsay
>>46471736
>What is the world engine for $500 Jimmy
>>46472195
>>46472239
The world engine's defenses were rammed through by a ship, and the largest IoM ships are still comparable to the largest Star Wars ships. Regardless, the Starkiller, and I quote, "could not be penetrated by any ship traveling at sublight speeds." Any ship. That certainly sounds superior to the defenses that were breached by a ship.
Ignoring that, weapons that flay molecules apart still were insufficient to destroy a planet, while the Starkiller can destroy multiple in a single shot from half a galaxy away.
And, this is hardly "hearsay." It's from the World Engine wikipage itself.
So, it sounds like the "World Engine" you think is so scary is several degrees, or should I say magnitudes, inferior to the Starkiller.
>>46472369
>You still have no coordinates for your gun.
>Necrons are still tiers above Empire in tech
>Ship scale in 40k is still more massive than star wars
>Black Stone fortresses have destroyed planets repeatedly and extinguish suns
Fine, I shoot a black hole at you.
>Elements of the technology that had gone into their construction would have been familiar to some of the more esoteric branches of black hole research and relativistic temporal arcana, but their assembled complexity would have baffled even the Fabricator General on Mars. Pulsing streams of purple-hued anti-matter and graviton pumps combined in unknowable ways in the heart of a reactor that drew its power from the dark matter that lurked in the spaces between the stars. It was a gun designed to crack open the stately leviathans of ancient void war, a starship killer that delivered the
ultimate coup de grace. Without any command authority from the bridge of the Speranza, the weapon unleashed a silent pulse that covered the distance to the Starblade at the speed of light.But even that wasn’t fast enough to catch a ship as nimble as one built by the bonesingers of Biel-Tan and guided by the prescient sight of a farseer. The pulse of dark energy coalesced a hundred kilometres off the vessel’s stern and a miniature black hole exploded into life, dragging in everything
within its reach with howling force. Stellar matter, light and gravity were crushed as they were drawn in and destroyed, and even the Starblade’s speed and manoeuvrability weren’t enough to save it completely as the secondary effect of the weapon’s deadly energies brushed over its solar sail. Chronoweaponry shifted its target a nanosecond into the past, by which time the subatomic reactions within every molecule had shifted microscopically and forced identical neutrons into the same quantum
space.
>>46471774
Space Shuttles don't move at physics breaking speeds anon.
>>46472467
Holy fuck that's some terrible writing.
And that's still inferior to the Starkiller's armament, since it's barely a fraction of its range, only moves at the pathetically slow rate of lightspeed, and only destroys a relatively small region of space compared to the star-system devastation of the Starkiller.
And, if you want to talk about coordinates, do you really think that any fleet can get within firing range of the Starkiller before the Starkiller annihilates them? We're talking about literally unfair range with unfair precision, with unfair power coming from an unfairly defended base, and that's even allowing you the handicap that the Starkiller isn't allowed to travel through hyperspace.
>>46472491
They also don't have force shields.
>>46472631
>>46472639
>>'Comparable'
Nice wanking there. Your blatant fanboyism clearly transcends even tg's expectations
>>46468529
ark mechanicus sets coruscant and nearby systems on fire, gg
>>46472631
>Pathetically slow rate of lightspeed
You do realize you literally can't see that coming
>Small region of space
It creates a fucking black hole. Does impenetrable shield stop a black hole eating your base?
> before the Starkiller annihilates them?
Considering it can't hit targets in warp, and the main gun hasn't been shown to be able to hit anything smaller than a planet, and you would have to eat an entire star again, while still not having coordinates to shoot at, I'm not seeing the problem. Even if you could shoot at the Sperenza, it can literally teleport you through time so that you didn't shoot it
>>46461920
>and doesn't include Gloriana Class ships.
Use your fucking eyes, moron.
>>46472670
>Your blatant fanboyism
Really? You're that blind to your own fanboyism that you don't even recognize that the Starkiller makes firing a miniature black hole insignificant in comparison?
We're talking about hitting multiple targets somewhere between 50,000 to 750,000 lightyears away with enough power to completely destroy several planets.
>>46471736
>what are blackstone fortresses?
>everyone focusing Starkiller
>when the OP states the fleet is led by Vader
>everyone stating that Void Shields would absorb anything
>implying that it is a 1:1 ratio and the emitters can't be overloaded with a large enough shot
>people implying that Hyperspace is comparable to the Warp
>implying that the Empire would ever go near the warp when they hear about it
>implying that if the even wanted to they wouldn't get their hands on a Gellar Field or Void Shield Generator
>implying so many things in this thread, these were just off the top of my head
>mfw
>>46472738
>50,000 tp 750,000 lightyears
first off you need to reorganize your sense of scale of even large galaxies
>little black holes incomparable
It only takes one to annihilate the starkiller. Yes, it can hit multiple targets at range destroying planets but even if it could destroy 50 planets in one go it is still not a drop in the bucket compared to the scale of the IoM's controlled worlds.
>>46472695
At the distances used in space? Do you realize it takes 8 minutes for the light from the Sun to hit Earth, and that it would take an entire year for a weapon moving at lightspeed to hit a target only a single lightyear away?
And the Starkiller's energy beam travels through hyperspace, destroying targets several thousands of lightyears away almost instantaneously?
>It creates a fucking black hole. Does impenetrable shield stop a black hole eating your base?
How does it even fire that thing when it can't get within several lightyears of the starkiller?
>and the main gun hasn't been shown to be able to hit anything smaller than a planet,
It destroyed a fair portion of the rebel fleet in addition to destroying the planets.
>>46472781
Fanboys aren't interested in any kind of debate, anon, they just wank the supposed awesomeness of their setting all over the opposition.
So, I learned that lucas' universe is immune to black holes.
This means jar jar will never be shoved into one.
A single Culture shuttle arrives and solos both the imperium and the empire.
>>46472831
Hardly, it just that the range of the blackhole weaponry is several thousands of times inferior to the Starkiller's effective range.
>>46472804
>Micro warp jump, since IoM can actually use their ftl in gravity wells.
>Impying the ships were targeted and not destroyed because four planets blew up right next to them.
How are you going to fire when Sperenza can repeatedly move you backwards in time?
>>46472839
> the photino birds threw a galaxy at the milky way
>>46472804
At no point has the starkiller been shown to be remotely capable of targeting anything smaller than planet sized stellar bodies with its primary armament.
And again this is GE-era led by Vader we are talking about. Deathstar, DS2: Electric Boogaloo, but no Starkiller. Otherwise you can go up against the era in Warhammer where there are 20 Legions and the Big E running rampant.
>>46472866
>At no point has the starkiller been shown to be remotely capable of targeting anything smaller than planet sized stellar bodies with its primary armament.
it blew up a solar system!
even vader era had access to the myriad devices and crazy weapons like the galaxy gun,
>>46472781
Anon for
1) Hyperspace EXISTS in 40k. The Necrons use it, but it's been compromised by Daemons and is now another violated hellscape unsafe for travel. Daemons have penetrated multiple dimensions at this point, corrupting them all.
2) Void Shields will absorb the starkiller weapon if they're of the planetary defense variety. We've seen void shields tank planetary destruction such as on Caliban with the Rock and the entire continent the Rock was located on surviving.
3) The Empire has no ability to build or replicate gellar field technology, which involves actual warp magic.
>>46472920
>>46472866
>mfw i reread what you typed
>mfw i went in the complete opposite direction
>mfw i fucked up so hard because the coinversation you were having didn't click
>mfw i can't follow conversation link chains
not that anon, but im just gonna go now
>>46472920
>Galaxy Gun
Not canon.
Nigga do you even star wars? The EU isn't canon at all.
>>46472631
In order to withstand a black hole the Starkiller base would require an almost infinite amount of energy (which it doesn't, it has the finite energy of a star) or its shields, which is irrelevant anyways, because if a black hole was at the range of being deflected by the shields it would have torn the planet apart long ago--atomizing the planet with the immense gravitational force.
The Starkiller base isn't shown to have an incredible long range arsenal, other than the main cannon (which by the way, takes a significant amount of time to recharge), and we haven't seen an instance of the main cannon firing on smaller targets or mobile crafts.
The Imperium would just be able to fire away a black hole while safely out of defense range, and watch as it sucks the Starkiller base to its doom. Should they NEED to get a closer shot, they can bring a fleet as cover and shoot when in range.
It is.
The big drmatic battles are when destruction of the planet isn't an option, they're trying to obtain an objective that can't just be blown up, teleportation isn't possible due to interuptions or they are verseing and enemy that can counter teleport tactics.
>>46472938
1) Hyperspace EXISTS in 40k. The Necrons use it, but it's been compromised by Daemons and is now another violated hellscape unsafe for travel. Daemons have penetrated multiple dimensions at this point, corrupting them all.
i though that the necrons just have inertialess drives and go fast in the materium.
>2) Void Shields will absorb the starkiller weapon if they're of the planetary defense variety. We've seen void shields tank planetary destruction such as on Caliban with the Rock and the entire continent the Rock was located on surviving.
i'll admit that caliban surviving was impressive, but the shields fell under sustained barrage, which caused the planet to become unstable. it only went kaput when the warpstorm came in and ripped it apart.
>3) The Empire has no ability to build or replicate gellar field technology, which involves actual warp magic.
i would argue that the Gellar field which is produced by the Mechanicum is purely mechanical and don't need a psychic interface. the only really psychic parts of the ship are the Astropath when they are piloting.
>>46472952
>talking about canon
>when debating against 40K
k anon
>Require an almost infinite amount of energy (which it doesn't have, it has the finite energy of a star) for its shields
Fixed. Sorry. Made a few typos.
>>46472977
the example of the Esperanza was a series of events that necessitated the Arch-Magos interfacing into the deep layers of the ship Machine Spirit. the ship said not to do that again because it was dangerous as fuck, then wiped everything that the Arch-Magos learned was at the heart of the ship.
for that to happen, someone would have to interface with the ship spirit, which would kill anyone who went to interface with it, convince the ship to open up it's guns.
Handling the entire GE would barely faze the IoM; they are used to war of a much greater magnitude and scale than what the GE would offer
>>46473115
More evidence that the Imperium got cucked
>>Doesn't mean that the amt. of Stars Fanwankery has gone down though
>>46473042
Inertialess drives is oldcron fluff. Newcrons used hyperspace until it was compromised now they have to hijack parts of the webway for transit.
But I agree that no void shields are gonna stop a Starkiller shot, too much in too short a time.
And yes Gellar fields are mechanical but come from DAoT when science was beyond logic and reason. They would be difficult to reverse engineer. The other issues are, has been previously posted, GE hyperspace travel effectiveness requires well-mapped routes. They would be jumping blind virtually everywhere for several decades. The second is that Gellar fields are not perfect, they fail for many reasons and determined warp predators is one. A hiccup in a particularly infested area of hyperspace will nearly guarantee the loss of the vessel as GE has no experience with such enemies nor effective means of combating them.
Home field advantage is huge in this case as IoM has more immediately reliable transit, resources beyond what the GE could hope to contend with, and exceptionally dangerous FTL environments.
>this thread
>>46473204
True but I occasionally enjoy nerd-fu battles even if I'm being led on.
>>46473042
>i would argue that the Gellar field which is produced by the Mechanicum is purely mechanical and don't need a psychic interface. the only really psychic parts of the ship are the Astropath when they are piloting.
Gellar fields project a pyschic bubble of reality that helps keep daemons from raping the ship. Although this is just more of a buffer to buy the ship time to drop out of warpspace if they get assaulted by daemons- gellar fields can be ruptured if enough force is directed against them.
Or you encounter a daemon whale.
>>46473239
Yes they can be ruptured but no on the psychic part.
It's ancient tech that maintains a bubble of reality around the vessel. The realspace is what keeps the warp shit out unless it is overloaded by psychic assault or fails for other reasons. Gellar fields were developed shortly after warp drives and centuries before navigators or other psykers became common enough for psy-tech to be implemented.
>>46473239
nowhere in any fluff that i can find does it say that it is powered by Psychic fields. everything i've seen shows that it is a mechanical device that works in conjunction with the warp drive, which is also mechanical. the fact that it interacts with the warp doesn't mean that it is a psychic device
>>46473288
Nope. Gellar fields are psychic in nature and are spawned from psychic technology.
>>46464934
>mfw the starforge created millions of droids every hour.
run that for a few weeks and you have a military force on the scale of the tyrranids.
>>46473400
>going back to the starforge
Well if that was still canon I'd say go back to the golden age of mankind and watch star wars still get BTFO.
>>46473432
I wonder if we should bring Da Beast and his grav-moons into this discussion
>>46473368
Where is this from? It is literally the first time I've heard of Gellar fields being psychic in nature.
>>46473579
Codex Daemons 4th Edition IIRC.
>>46473647
Huh, it's odd because Gellar fields predate psykers by about 2 millenia.
>>46473368
Odd, that is the first and only time it's ever been mentioned as psychic. In every other source it is described as sub atomic particles or forcefield.
>>46462876
Yes, welcome to 4chan enjoy your visit
>>46467374
And there's no understating what one single marine could do to an entire army of Clone Troopers, although rightfully so this discussion is about space battles not land battles. Land battles are so laughably skewed in the Imperiums favour that it's depressing.
>>46468419
Why would Star Killer have shields strong enough to resist another Star Killer attack? That's unimaginable amounts of wasted energy considering there's only one Star Killer and it took 40 years to make and is several magnitudes more powerful than the next closest weapon in StarWars.
That just doesn't make sense.
