Let's try this out, edition.
Discussion of all of Mantic's games set in the Warpath universe: Deadzone, Dreadball, Firefight, Warpath
Discuss playtesting, list building, gripes, minis talk, etc.
Let's start by providing some resources for an OP copypasta. There isn't much because Firefight is still in beta and warpath rules haven't been released yet either. But I have the deadzone redux stuff at least (and the containment protocols anthology of short stories for some fun insight into the setting):
https://www.mediafire.com/#woayb5yb9fke1
Dreadball is still in full swing, deadzone is set to be released in may (with the kickstarter backers getting their stuff this month). Firefight is still in beta, and warpath rules have not been released yet. That stuff is all set to be released late this year.
To start us off, I will copypaste the stuff I wrote in the last big mantic thread with brief descriptions of the factions for Deadzone, which will in turn generally be factions for the rest of warpath.
First off, the whole setting is not grimdark. Technology still advances and is very high tech, but the setting does have a darkness from the total corporate control enacted on the colonies. Propaganda shows a galaxy of enlightenment and peace, where the corporations usher in humanities' greatest era. When in reality war is all around and the galaxy is full of dangers. (reminds me of the Alliance from firefly/serenity)
Enforcers - they are the superhuman elite soldiers, but they work directly for a greedy organization and are grown completely from test tubes. They follow orders by the corporate heads without question, even if it means killing innocent people. All their dudes (except the pathfinder scouts) are equipped with advanced armour and jump packs.
Forgefathers - An alien race that are essentially fantasy dwarfs. They are not metahumans and have an empire that predates even the earliest human civilizations. They have the most advanced weapons and armor in the galaxy (armour piercing errywhere), and their starships are second to none. They are incredible miners and resource gatherers, being able to strip mine entire worlds down to their molecular components. They pretty much play like you would assume any dwarf army would play.
cont.
>>46438392
The Plague - Peppered across the galaxy are these strange alien artifacts that infect people with a mutating virus. Those who come in contact with the artifacts initially become these monstrous giant exoskeleton stage 1 creatures that act as the generals of others infected. Then through clawing or touch those can infect others, and those become stage 2s, which are not as big, but still very beastly fighters. When those infect others, they become stage 3s, which actually retain their intelligence to use guns, fly ships, etc. But are still 'converted' over to fight for the plague as a whole. Their goal seems to only be 'spread the plague'. They are a swarm army.
Veermyn - Nobody knows their intentions or goals, but they are pretty much like any nest of rats scavenging and spreading. They have castes like the skaven and are lead by brood mothers. They are also a swarm army.
Asterians - Ancient and wise, believing in a balance in all things (like a yin/yang philosophy), looking down on those who don't believe in such. Pretty much space elves. More like elves then Eldar though. They have the most advanced robotics and stealth tech. Their main troops are constructs of bio material and machine which are remotely controlled by users on the ships a la Avatar. Few asterians physically go to the battlefields. They fought and contained the plague millenia ago, and are facepalming big time as the greedy corporations went around to all the artefacts going "Oooh, what does this button do?"
cont.
>>46438413
Marauders - Once taken and trained and uplifted by the corporations to be their elite guard force (before the Enforcers program), but they have an intelligence that belies their appearance and fought for their freedom from the corporation. They are the galaxy's mercenary force, sometimes hired by the corporation themselves. They are good tacticians and smart on the battlefield, but still very ferocious in combat. They are made up of diffeent races: orcs(generally the leaders), goblins(small technicians and snipers), and hulks(big and stupid ogres), and a few others. Not necessarily a horde race.
Rebs - Not everyone is happy with corporation rule on everything, and some of those actually do something about it. Particularly alien races assimilated into the corporation are treated as second class citizens and even sentient ones are deemed 'indiginous wildlife' when their homeworld is discovered to contain valuable resources. This is the Star Wars Rebel Alliance fighting back. A jack-of-all-masters-of-none army because of the wide variety of equipment and individuals fighting for them.
cont.
>>46438448
Then of course is the basic setting of the games of deadzone:
The corporation will put a containment protocol on a planet, usually because of a plague outbreak or veermyn infestation. The corp will remove any sign of that planet from the galactic nav system, and delete all public documentation about it, dooming all the citizens to their fate. Then they send some enforcers there to make sure nobody enters or leaves the world. When a ship FTL drops in orbit, they shoot it down. When a ship tries to leave, they shoot it down.
However many corporations have big investments on those worlds they want retrieved, so the enforcers have their secondary objectives to recover those. So all the races usually have their own goals when it comes to a deadzone.
The forgefathers are scouting it out for their next mining world, because it doesn't look like the humans want it anymore.
The Asterians are trying to contain the plague because they dont trust humans
Marauders are often hired by a corporation to recover something on those worlds.
Rebs, of course, are desperate to find incriminating evidence of the corporations atrocities to use in order to gain more followers, and to rescue any natives.
>>46438135
>Firefight is still in beta and warpath rules haven't been released yet either.
I thought someone posted one or both on 4chan in the last month or so?
Or was it the Firefight beta?
Some anon posted their opinions too, one of them was considered to need more playtesting.
>>46438559
That was the firefight beta. But yes the concensus is the game needs a lot more playtesting and points adjustments. The rules committee of mantic knows this and are working on it.
>>46438604
It might be too early for a thread then.
I'm down for it when one of the new versions launches. Otherwise I guess the only one is Dreadball?
Initial impressions.
Firefight:
-Shields on Astarians are too high
-Steel Warriors could stand to be a few points more
-There's not much reason to take more than the minimum size on units
Mass Battle:
-Suppression is too much, the system used in Firefight would be better
-Same as Firefight, there's little reason to take more than the minimum
Played a couple of games of KoW and Deadzone today.
KoW was fun and as solid as I expected, Deadzone wasn't all that great though IMO.
I'm going to give it another go since I have a sneaking suspicion we didn't play it right.
>>46439076
How do you think you didn't play it right? Was there some obvious balance issues or the flow of teh game?
If you want a couple videos on how to play, while these guys are a tad awkward, it gives you a good idea on how things are done.
https://youtu.be/OyeTtVgJPFY
https://youtu.be/inuJFLv89-k
>>46439190
I've heard people say that suppression and pinning are important but the majority of stuff just died pretty quickly without ever actually being pinned.
There doesn't seem to be anything in the rules that says beasts can't claim objectives but it seems cheap that they can.
Moving between levels seems odd.
few other things I don't remember.
>>46439312
Well are you sure you're not confusing things with the old game? In this version you can either shoot to damage, or shoot to pin. Some weapons just do both.
Also did you play using recon? did you use the command dice? Did you do secret missions?
>>46439417
That's my point, I'd heard that shooting to pin was a big deal but when shooting to damage kills whatever you are shooting at so easily why would you shoot to pin?
And yeah we used recon and commands.
>>46438135
>https://www.mediafire.com/#woayb5yb9fke1
That link doesn't seem to work for me
>>46439076
What was wrong with the game, in your opinion? I haven't played Deadzone yet but I'd love to hear people's opinions of the game.
Mass Battle:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dwkk5x5ooszx0zu/Warpath%20Beta%2014-03-16.pdf?dl=0
Firefight:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hyc72fvva6e3dmf/Firefight%20V%201.3.pdf?dl=0
>>46439657
Well shooting to pin has uses.
When it's on a cube with a single troop model, you might as well shoot to kill, but if there are 2 or 3 models on that cube, firing for effect shows its use. When models are pinned they must spend a short action to get up, meaning they can't run, fire heavy weapons, move and fire, etc. Also if a model would be hard to kill with your little rapid fire weapon, and you need to slow it down, pinning shows its use there too.
It's situational of course, but has its use.
>>46439736
When I get back to my computer I'll check it out
>>46439787
Thanks
>>46439882
Actually I figured it out, for some reason if you replace the pound sign with a question mark it makes it work I guess?
Either way thank you for sharing anon.
I was looking at the Warpath kickstarter, and I noticed that the battle groups listed as part of the kickstarter had a Mars Attacks Martian and human battlegroup. Does anyone know what's up with that?
>>46440602
It's just a little nod to the Mars attacks collectors, they like that it can have some cross compatibility. While it's not officially part of the fluff or setting, it was a popular request for it so they provided
>>46440602
That is weird. I'll repost a new one here in a bit
>>46440675
Its like with the Martians team for Dreadball.
>>46439736
My biggest issue is mixing such simplistic movement rules with true line of sight just feels off.
Like I say I'm going to give it another go but thats my biggest issue atm.
>>46439657
I think shooting to pin being important was really the first version. It was too powerful an ability as well as being a bit wonky. To briefly summarise:
You targeted a single cube and all enemy in that cube were effected.
You made a test against every enemy model in the target cube, you got extra dice for a cube with cover in it (as the enemy were more likely to go to ground if there was somewhere to go to ground to).
If you beat the enemy roll significantly you caused damage to the target too. Oddness here is you were more likely to damage them if they were in a cover filled cube due to the bonus dice this gave you.
Current rules just target a single target model, but it is very easy to put him on the floor, which I guess makes it worthwhile in some circumstances I guess. Need to try out the new rules once I have my Enforcers done.
Pic related, it's my Plague, was 70 points in old Deadzone, 100 points this version, so no faffing about painting more then.
>>46444475
I like that color scheme.
In case anyone is wondering, the big guy in the back is the stage 1, who initially comes in contact with the alien artifact. The other big guys are stage 2, those infected from stage 1s, and the ones holding weapons and clothes are stage 3s, those infected by stage 2s
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/woayb5yb9fke1/deadzone
Ok here is the updated link for the deadzone folder.
Trying to decide between Veer-myn or Forge Fathers.
The idea of Space Skaven with laser guns and chem-throwers appeals to me, but I like the firepower the not!Squats bring to the field. Brokr-heavy would also be fun.
>>46446153
The 2 have different playstyles.
If you're into smaller numbers with powerful expensive elite units, that's forgefathers. Even Brokkrs. (pic related, my brokkr chief in front and the rest of the relic hunters in the back.)
If you like swarming your enemy with lots of ratmen, then that's veermyn.
>>46446153
Well for Forgefathers, a single 5 Dwarf sprue will make a 100 point force, so doing them is not likely to break the bank.
>>46446318
>>46446330
I'm also trying to keep in mind which I'd expand into Warpath, also. Not a huge fan of the Veer-myn vehicles shown so far, so I guess a big factor is going to be how essential they are in the final product.
>>46446595
The forgefather tanks i wasnt to keen on at first, but now i think these could look really cool with the right paint jobs. Theyre starting to grow on me.
>>46446726
Same. Never been a big fan of tanks and such, so most vehicles don't appeal to me. But I'd put FF over the Veer-myn ones shown so far. On the other-hand, Veer-myn do have giant rat monsters.
>>46446926
You seriously dont like any of the veermyn vehicles? because these things are pretty cool. I would love to run a formation of them, having not even seen the rules for them yet. Definitely remind me of the skaven doomwheel
>>46447046
Its mostly tanks that I'm not a fan of. I like walkers and bikes
The rules are they are fast, decently armored, and do damage at close range. They are armed with a dual-sprayer with a range of 9", 2 shots, AP2, and does D3 hits each shot. They can assault with 4 shots at AP1.
Man, I really regret missing the warpath kickstarter. I really wasnt interested in warpath at the time, but now i think i am, even if its just to get some of the cool models for a discount.
This set i am super excited about, no doubt they are going to be about $30 retail when they finally get released. Expensive. Better than GW but expensive.
>>46447575
>Expensive. Better than GW but expensive.
Just wait for the Warpath army bundles.
>>46447847
Not a big fan of bundles because i like buying individual kits and slowly building my army. bundles will generally have too much of something i dont want, or not enough of something i want.
>>46447575
I didn't really care that much until reading the beta rules recently, and now I'm sad I missed it.
>>46444475
>2nd edition
>playing plague
>not playing zombie swarm
https://youtu.be/GasFOHLVQ6Y
This video convinced me to buy maybe a stage 1, a couple specialists, and put to use my shit ton of zombie models. Just imagine. Swarm your enemy with hordes of zombies, cap objectives easily, and your opponent getting no VP for killing them off. I think it might be one of the top builds in the new meta
And a bump before bed.
I know there is little traction for these games right now, so I will probably do something like 'Warpath Wednesdays' just to keep the discussion going periodically. Things are getting exciting as we see backers are supposed to get their deadzone stuff shipped out within the next week, and the pre-order for it (according to an adepticon video interview with ronnie, they wanted to drop the price on the box set and get preorders up) and the full releases near the end of may.
Video interview:
https://youtu.be/Caan0BpHo8Y
In it he talks about deadzone, then walking dead (yawn) then the release plan for everything this year, vaguely.
Even if youre not into deadzone, it's important to watch its development because ronnie said in another interview (dont have a link, sorry) that deadzone is to be the kickoff for players wanting to get into firefight and mass battles. What this means is pretty much the whole minis range for those games (except tanks transports flyers etc) will have stats in deadzone first, then added to the full range. So seeing things appear in deadzone will give you an idea of whats next for the warpath games. It's pretty cool.
This is why I believe that there may eventually be a Rebs army. Maybe units of mixed aliens, just categorized by their battlefield role, and simplification of all the weapons. The unit to have a heavy weapon upgrade? Stick the grogan in there for that.
so which gcps soldiers are the regular ones and which are the rangers?
>>46450733
Surprisingly cinematic.
How's the game compare with Infinity though?
>>46452472
More focused on campaign play perhaps.
Be surprised if they're more than $20 at retail release. Peacekeepers (the Enforcers equivalent) go for 15 bong quid for 5. I expect they'd aim for around 20 dollaridoos for you lot.
>>46453777
That's in reply to:
>>46447575
>>46452472
Infinity is a great game. But it has ultra dense rules. I think infinity is great if you want to be competitive and if it is your main and only tg.
Deadzone rulebook has +- 50 pages of rules. Infinty 150.
Personally i cant play infinity anymore. A single bad choice and you lost. Too stressful game and too much rule checking in games.
>>46453846
The all metal models precariously balanced on high scenery would stress me out the most. Like painting models exactly once, without routine retouches every game.
Lovely looking, wrong material, even Mantic's early (and now largely superceded) plastic resin stuff is better in that regard.
>>46446726
I've seen the FF tank in person. It looked amazing. I've actually seen resin casts of all bar the Corp dropship. I was really impressed with the detail. I hope Mantic carries that over into the hard plastics
>>46452242
Helmets with visors are the rangers. Think they get the heavier rifles too.
>>46452242
The new hard plastic covers both marines and rangers. You could probably mix both options and make vets (as the rangers have lots of tacticool bits)
>>46455538
Yeah rangers have heavy rifles and jetpacks.
>>46453846
From what I gather:
Deadzone is built for a running campaign, with XP, better support of randomized scenarios and objectives and asymmetric play, a streamlined movement system, and denser environments.
But mechanically it still needs balance worked out.
Infinity is well regarded for balance, but mostly is a straightforward tabletop skirmish game in comparison.
Either way Deadzone seems like a good deal for industrial terrain packs.
>>46454019
Fucking this. Infinity models are gorgeous, but I hate metal models with a passion. I'd rather work with that shitty restic.
>>46452472
If you want to see cinematic, these guys are doing their deadzone batreps in a little more cinematic style. I like it.
https://youtu.be/CeWonSqoH-0
>>46457539
Would be nicer without the gap filler everywhere and a little less proxying.
>>46456646
You say that, but have you ever tried scraping flash off the faces of five orc commandos?
I love those figures to bits, but holy fuck, I just finished 50 of the bastards for my Warpath army. Plastic non-horde orcs can't come soon enough.
>>46461052
Did 4 Maraudrrs for dreadball (and some goblins), not something I'd want to do for a Warpath army. Shame Orcs aren't getting any plastic for Warpath any time soon.
Have a Warpath battle report.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK1bmeTOb84&feature=youtu.be
>>46463310
>Preparing 50 phase 1 DZ restics for painting
God fucking damn it.
Marines were fine. Enforcers were fine. Veer-myn were fine. That face flash on the commandos though. Never again.Now I have 10 Orc captains painted like M Bison
So the movement rules are really unclear, is it one movement to move to an adjacent space and then one to move up a level or just one to move to an adjacent higher level.
It'd help if the rules example said what speed the mini in the examples are moving but it doesn't.
>>46465129
Yeah, took me a while to figure that part out. Its one to move to an adjacent higher level, as long as there's terrain to climb on, from what I can tell.
>>46465222
Seems silly but glad for the clarification.
>>46439190
>these guys are a tad awkward
I think they make a lovely couple.
>>46465247
It could be a little clearer, but it makes sense when most things would be moving only one cube per action. Otherwise terrain could be overwhelming, and the game is designed with lots of terrain in mind.
>>46465834
The idea behind it is these troops are elite enough to do quick climbs and jumps to get around. So one move to get to an adjacent cube, or an adjacent up/down 1 level cube (as long as there is a climbable wall in the path)
>>46465834
>the game is designed with lots of terrain in mind.
I'm new to wargames and have only seen a few KoW games with very sparse terrain. These Deadzone videos have so much it's overwhelming to me, in a good way. Do a lot of games use this much terrain?
>>46466076
Its still something to get used to when you are so used to climbing rules in games slow the models down.
>>46468923
Game are starting to. Traditionally, not really, since getting large amounts of terrain together can be a pain, but a lot of skirmish games have been coming out lately that increased the amount needed. Deadzone has pre-made plastic terrain available, so its easier to get things together.
You should see Infinity, so much more terrain needed.
>>46468923
Most people don't use a ton of terrain because terrain is a pain in the ass to create, store, and set up, but it's becoming more common as more and more games try and make it a major focus of how the game is played.
Infinity, Frostgrave, and ye olde GW skirmish games really wanted you to use a lot of terrain, and in my personal opinion the more terrain you use in 40k the more you cut down on a large number of that game's fatal flaws like overpowered long range shooting.
Block infantry games like KoW and WHFB tend to go towards less terrain because people don't like to have to manuver their big blocks of infantry around houses or through narrow corridors, but I personally think that it can add another layer of tactics and can lead to some more interesting games.
>>46468923
Depends on the game type. Generally smaller skirmish games favor it more. with these the terrain is there to make things more tense and cinematic
But mass battles games that use large units or rank+flank blocks want less terrain because its a hassle to play around them. In these games terrain really only is there to hinder shooting and hinder movement.
>>46468977
Definitely. But with deadzone movement is more abstract, and keeping things this abstract allows for denser terrain and doesnt punish you for having it. So you don't have to feel you need to sacrifice a valuable move to get to another level that may or may not pay off. In deadzone you will commonly have at least half or more of your force on higher levels generally, rather than other games when people only really put snipers on higher levels or go there for objectives, and most of the action happens on lower levels.
>>46469350
I'm not saying its bad. Just something different to get used to.
>>46469350
>allows for denser terrain and doesnt punish you for having it
See, THIS is what interested me about it, having super dense urban environments.
BUT despite the movement being fast paced IIRC it had a problem with most stuff being unkillable and the suppression mechanics being overpowered. That or people are playing it wrong and you shouldn't expect to kill everything especially since you draw for random objectives.
>>46472982
I think you may be thinking of last edition. In this new one plenty things die and few weapons have the supression rule, and getting pinned isnt really THAT debilitating.
>>46473094
What's the current edition?
I thought there was the original kickstarter, and whatever current beta that's closed and not leaked.
>>46473114
They had the new books at Adepticon, kinda bummed I didn't pick one up while I was there.
>>46473114
Current edition is >>46446098
A VAST improvement over the old. They got rid of cards of all types, models have weapon options, some achievable through converting, streamlined rules, etc.
>>46473168
..."2" or "infestation"?
What cards did they get rid of then? I kind of liked the idea of secret objectives.
>>46473147
Im kinda fucking bummed that the goddamn adepticon goers are getting their books before us kickstarter backers.
Seriously I hate it when companies pull off this shit
"Oh hey you guys are why this product is even happening, but we are going to sell it to convention goers before we bother shipping this stuff out to you guys, so youll have to wait."
>>46473187
ALL CARDS
secret objectives are still a thing. You roll on a table at the beginning of the game, each scenario has a table for it. Some are similar, some unique.
The battle cards are replaced with command dice. Just as useful and easier to track.
>>46473187
'2'. Infestation is an add-on.
>>46473214
So they just got rid of arbitrary game pieces, not mechanics?
>>46473228
Pretty much. All things cards did got replaced with something streamlined and easier.
>>46473241
>>46473221
>>46473168
Hows overall balance? IIRC it was one of the warpaths that needed more work.
>>46474159
It seems MUCH better, except for one or two blips. The Rebs Strider is the same cost as the Enforcer strider but has one point less shooting (in a 3d8 game, so not the end of the world but a bit crap). Thats the only thing I noticed so far.
>>46474224
Could be a factional balance thing?
>>46474246
Possibly. Rebs are lightly armoured hit and run types, a mech is a bit different for them.
Is there any benefit to having 3 of the same weapon on a walker?
The stuntbot has 3 weapon slots but the Orcs only have 3 walker weapons so unless having multiples gives you some kind of benefit all stuntbots are going to have the same loadout.
Seems to make the customization redundant, at least for that unit, I guess it can be expanded on later.
>>46479262
For the stuntbot, no benefit at all. He doesnt have fire control so he cant fire 2 weapons in the same turn. The advantage i see is you can go cheap and take only one weapon, or full on and take all the weapons. It just depends on what role you want the stuntbot to fill.
Now the Iron Ancestor, he has fire control and 2 weapon slots. He can take 2 different guns or 2 of the same guns and fire them both. This is most likely why he is also a really expensive unit even without any weapons.
I think they made it this way so that with later expansions they could add more weapon options instead of making them standard for the models.
>>46451991
>I know there is little traction for these games right now, so I will probably do something like 'Warpath Wednesdays' just to keep the discussion going periodically.
You'd probably have better luck just integrating into the Kings of War General that pops up and actually making it into the Mantic General it tries to be. This thread is barely limping along, and those don't do much better.
>>46481775
Deadzone and Warpath barely get talked about in those threads, even when brought up. I think once things get officially released, it'll be different, but right now, the space side gets left in the dust. It also doesn't help that GW hasn't killed 40k yet, so we haven't taken in the influx of refugees, like KoW has.
>>46483908
Well we are in effect discussing 2 games that aren't even out yet (although we know what the rules are so there's no place for speculation). A hundred odd replies in a few days might even be an accomplishment under the circumstances.
>>46483908
That could probably be largely fixed by putting some Warpath stuff in the OP of the threads. It would draw more people than just having the other big game made by the company.
I'd rather keep warpath separate from the KoW thread. They are 2 different leagues.
That's why I want to go to a weekly thread like they did with Frostgrave for a while.
>>46486582
I think there's plenty to discuss, though, since Warpath is in an open beta state. I just think that there's been less interest, so less people have gone out of their way to playtest some games.
I also know that there was quite a few people in the KoW general that had interest in the game, but couldn't be bothered to help with the testing. Fuck those people.
Given the corporate nature of the...Corporation, I was thinking about painting up my Enforcers like racing cars, with each Enforcers number painted on their shoulder.
What sort of sponsors could I have painted on the armor?
>>46490675
Look at the usual racing car sponsors: Restaurants
Mcdonalds, taco bell, etc.
Have a restarant sponsor your dudes
>>46490675
I would suggest looking at both modern companies you would like to include knock-offs of, and from there you could move to taking ideas from other games as to what kind of companies would be around in a future that looks like the one in Warpath.
Real-world examples for knock offs go from the really simple such as Coca Cola and McDonald's, to the more complex like painting up any corporate walker like a KAT knock off.
Then you could look at some of the companies from games like Heavy Gear Arena from dream forge nine; they have a company that's called Weird But Tasty!, a company that makes foodstuffs out of creatures from other planets.
You could get really creative with it too, like making really well painted minis that look like they have armor made from other materials as representing different technology firms.
That and Security forces are a fun way to give your enforcers some character.
>>46490675
Parodies of real-world companies are always fun, especially the ones playing on a modern company in the future, like Futurama did.
>Admiral Crunch
>>46474224
That's weird.
>>46492911
>jokes are awful
>>46490675
I remember a comic than was something like this, people warring wars with sponsors and stuff, very cool art btw.
