Why do so many mages attempt to become liches instead of vampires? Both can cast spells and live forever. Yes, okay, liches are better in every way that matters, but they're harder to become and if you fail your soul is thrown into the Abyss or whatever.
Dying almost instantly in the sun is a pretty big drawback
>>46430324
>Why do so many mages attempt to become liches instead of vampires?
>Yes, okay, liches are better in every way that matters
Answered your own question there. Also vampires are riddled with weaknesses no self respecting thaumaturge would inflict on themself.
>>46430324
The most common method of becoming a vampire requires one to be at risk of being in thrall to the vampire who turned you.
Obviously, a mage that powerful would put contingencies in place, but it's a hell of a liability.
Being a baller ass skeleton wizard will always be cool.
Being a vampire runs you the risk of being a complete faggot depending on what world you live in.
> Why not cut corners? It's only ETERNITY, and only puts YOUR IMMORTAL SOUL at risk.
Found the fighter, guys. Or maybe a rogue. Shake him upside down with a level 2 spell and see if lockpicks fall out.
>>46430382
>>46430373
Sounds like you need to build a better vampire, rather than being a square thinker and going for talking skele.
>eternal life
>eternal life (possibly enslaved to another immortal) dependent on drinking blood of living
Easy choice.
Best process would be Vampire turned Liche. First buys you time to do the second
>>46430443
But I don't want to be a vampire.
>>46430443
If you start making vampires that don't burn in the sun you end up with Twilight
It's a fact that the farther you get away from "traditional" vampire traits the more terrible the resulting vampire becomes
Also Gentle Repose. A lich can look more passable than any vampire. Subdue your aura and put some ranks in disguise and you're in the black.
>>46430465
>If you start making vampires that don't burn in the sun you end up with Twilight
The trope codifiers, Dracula and Carmilla, we're not threatened by the sun. Solar death was a special effect for a movie.
>>46430324
If we were going by just dnd, the stats for lich are much better than vampire due to the dr 15 and +2 to int,wis and cha.
Only other system I have seen liches and vampires in is oWoD and becoming a vamp in that kills all Mage potential while a lich makes you as tough as a 4th gen vampire and able to more with your magic since by definition you are a vulgar display.
>>46430411
If I didn't vant to be a complete faggot I vouldn't have become a vampire in the first place. Nov step aside, I must admire my nevest finery in the mirror.
>>46430324
Why do so many soldiers learn to use guns instead of disintegrator rays?
>>46430465
Dracula didn't burn in the sun you faggot. He just didn't like it.
>>46430538
>>>w
>>v
>is a chekov gotta stab a bitch?
>>46430324
If you are a wizard with a shot at becoming a lich you are probably going to think you are enough of a big shot to pull it off.
>>46430532
>If we were going by just dnd, the stats for lich are much better than vampire due to the dr 15 and +2 to int,wis and cha.
we had this debate in another thread, it's by no means clear that the D&D lich template is better than the vampire one, all other things being equal.
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/46302320/#46312875
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/46328587/#46330035
>>46430324
but of course it depends on the setting. oWoD has the tremere, for instance, who were formerly mages and became vampires for a shot at immortality.
Who writes down the lichification procedure? You go through time and effort of becoming lich, why write up a procedure for others to follow? Do you want competitors? Publication record in the Journal of Necromantic Research?
>>46432828
All magical text and spellbooks are actually written by demons to trick humans into falling from grace.Magic and sin is are same thingSin is analogous to antimatter concerning heavenEarth is heaven
>>46432828
GURPS Banestorm Abydo has a pretty interesting necromantic society. Instead of becoming liches or vampires, they just use necromantic magic to steal youth from slaves. They've even turned it into an industry so most of the nobility is centuries old. They also believe Jesus Christ was a necromancer (in a good way) so there's that.
>>46430324
Because it's an RPG and if you fail you can just roll another character.
The REAL question is, why aren't there more wizards trying to turn themselves into dragon eggs or elementals? Those two things are already spells in and of themselves temporarily, why not go full time?
There might be disadvantages to being made of air, but it certainly beats babysitting a golden jar for the rest of eternity.
>>46432828
In a lot of settings you have to figure that shit out for yourself.
Sure some liches might write tomes on advanced necromancy because they have an eternity to do that sort of shit, but your still looking at piecing semi-reliable information that is hard to come by from multiple sources. You dont get get to write "1x Book of Lichdom for Dummies" on your starting character sheet
>>46432828
I imagine the first guy to figure it out, being a wizard and all, didn't really see anything wrong with it and would get all giddy at the thought of being published in a peer-reviewed journal.
>>46430373
Vampire spawn almost instantaneously perish in sunlight, sure, but more powerful forms of vampires have good ways of mitigating that.
Or, if you really want, you could just be a regular vampire that's a warlock and constantly cast the Darkness spell around yourself.
>>46430324
generally speaking by the time a caster is looking to become immortal he's either strong or arrogant enough that he's going to go the litch route rather than the vampire route.
>>46433561
Well, now I know what my next lich character is going to do. Write a simple how-to guide to lichdom and distribute it fucking everywhere, then giggle from my extraplanar wizard's tower as I watch.
I wish there were more incentive to become a Worm That Walks rather than a lich, since they are about 10X cooler, but there really isn't any.
>>46430324
look cooler, and can take sunlight.
>>46430447
Don't forget how the setting treats vampires! lets say it's VTM, and you end up as a Nosferatu or a Malkavian - then shit can become even more difficult
What other viable immortality methods are there? Immortality elixirs?
>>46436919
There is if you're an epic-level Vermin Lord.
Holy shit is there ever an incentive.
>>46430538
>Vampire
>Mirror
I'm afraid I've got some bad news.
>>46436994
apotheosis
Because vampirism is when you die and an evil spirit possesses your body. It's not you.
>>46432828
I can imagine that if you have much spare-time, you'll need to keep yourself busy. Writing a book or two will probably be mandatory.
Hell, just imagine if a worlds most famous writer of childrens fairytales was a lich working under a pseudonym and intermediates.
>>46436772
Nobody capable of performing the ritual will trust your book.
>>46437081
You're right. I'll need celebrity endorsements from other liches.
Maybe some reviews.
Though seriously, why wouldn't they believe the undead guy's published book on necromancy? Anyone powerful enough will be able to fact check it themselves anyway.
>>46430500
Very true.
Underrated post.
>>>46432266 He just didn't like it.
He didn't /just/ not like it. He couldn't use most of his magic powers in it.
But he got his magic from studying at Scholomance, not from being a vampire.
>>46430532
if we're going by dnd then every Wizards' goal is replacing their patron God, liche is plan c. plan b is somewhere in between immortality as a God and immortality as a bag of bones.
>>46437718
>if we're going by dnd then every Wizards' goal is replacing their patron God
It is? Man I have been doing it all wrong then.
>>46437786
It's the goal of any high level character in BECMI D&D, at any rate
>>46437818
>never read dragonlance
>doesn't know raistlin
Why do plebs act like ad&d 1st Ed never existed.
>>46432828
Maybe some liches are nice dudes that just wanted to research forever. Maybe they do write books for other wizards or just for the sake of the advancement of magic.
>>46437917
Because 1st edition AD&D was dumb and 2nd was barely any better.
Fucking caps by class and all that shit.
>>46437936
>researcher lich
>regularly publishes papers on magic
>a lot of it is super advanced and only archmages can even get the gist of it
>also publishes beginner and intermediate guides every so often though
>SUPER racist by modern standards though
>there's a chapter included in every book somewhere about using the magic described in the book to;
>"eradicate the halfling menace, for they carry a cutlass and wand on their person at all times"
>also publishes poems
>he's shit at poetry
>>46430324
The real question is why they aren't more ways to become "immortal" in high fantasy settings like D&D?
For example warlocks or clerics being turned into immortals by their patrons or monks refining their bodies through magic to the point of reaching immortality etc.
>>46438031
Gotta remember the racial bonuses were a pretty big deal, and the human racial bonus was "no level cap"
>>46438031
It's ok if you only like the millennial eds, but not everyone needs dbz-tier characters to be entertained.
Or just use PAO+Wish and become a dragon. They're functionally immortaland grow more powerful with age. Plus eeveryone respects dragons.
Also, Dragon Ascendant provides you with a relatively easy path to legit apotheosis.
>>46438269
I didn't say I liked those more, just that 1st and 2nd AD&D were dumb.I've only had a chance to play an actual game of 3.5 though, so it probably works better than I think.
>>46438269
Jesus Christ just how high does your horse go, please get off it before you make yourself out to be any more of an elitist prick.
>>46430373
Even Dracula didn't disintegrate in sunlight until he got staked. He was just weaker.
>>46438091
>>46438645
Either way that's still half a day where you either die near instantly or are weakened a good bit, something that's going to be a major issue of your opponent is clever or a caster.
>>46438091
>A racist grandpa lich
...I want this.
>>46430324
There was a massive discussion on this here
>>46432366
Long story short, vampires vary enormously between settings while liches aren't in as much media but are almost unanimously powerful in every setting that features them.
The discussion devolves into people whose main impressions of vampires have been the super powerful ones, dracula etc., who have virtually none of the weaknesses of the stereotypical vampire, vs people whose main impression is from the versions where they die to a ton of stuff or have to be invited inside, or any of the other really specific weaknesses they've had in various iterations.
And both are right, because depending on the setting, vampires range between demigods and absolute fodder. So your answer is "more people go for lich because across settings, it's more reliable."
>>46430324
Because becoming a lich is something you do of your own volition through a bony assload of study and dedication. Becoming a vampire is usually something that happens by accident or through a pact that might leave you indebted or enthralled.
It's not a big surprise reclusive academics go for the study and independence route.
>>46430324
Lich
>Everyone knows you're one motherfucker not to be trifled with
>Don't need sustenance
>Can tan your bones at a tropical resort
>Not bothered by pesky mundane weapons
>Can cross ankle-deep streams
>Can go wherever you want, no sweat, crash any Magic University frat parties you like
>Look fucking awesome
>Infinite respawns
Vampire
>Sun hates you
>Gods hate you
>Everybody hates you
>Can't look at yourself in the mirror so prone to embarrassment at social events
>Can't enter anywhere uninvited
>Can't cross running water
>Have to keep your home soil with you, which is lame
>Need to be sucking necks (and cocks) all the time
>Dies to removal
>>46438870
>vampires vary enormously between settings
>>46433551
If you're a dragon you still have to babysit your hoard. But, if you can turn yourself into a dragon you can turn yourself into a dracolich. Have your cake and eat it too. You'll still have to babysit a golden jar, though.
I'd imagine there are actually more vampires than liches, but that's because vampires want servants and misery loves company.
Actually, a vampire *does* have the advantage of easier servants, but that's about the only thing I can think of.
>>46438929
Or theft.
>>46438228
You can create Clones of yourself to reduce your physical age when you get too old.
One of the epic level boons in 5e is just "k' you're immortal now".
You could have a druid Reincarnate you over and over.
>>46439070
>dirty dan
Forgot I had that on. Was testing the names on april fools day.
Can someone become a vampire, die, become a revenant, then become a lich?
>>46438588
Nah, he got it right. Just checked, 3rd edition came out in 2000 and it is undeniable that d&d has drifted more into anime than fantasy novels.
>>46430324
Because a true wizard plans to use the power of lichdom to become a god latter
>>46439021
Dragon Ascendant lets you become a quasidiety, and requires you consume your hoard at the start. So if having to be shackled to material goods is a sticking point for you, there's that.
>>46439021
>turn yourself into a dragon you can turn yourself into a dracolich
Why the fuck would you do this
Turning yourself into dragon only to become dracolich is fucking stupid
Dragons get stronger with age and if you are going to get rid of that you as well stay as humanoid
>>46430465
>farther you get away from "traditional" vampire traits the more terrible the resulting vampire becomes
Bullshit.
>>46439150
Sure buddy, sure
>>46439005
>>46439296
post the rest
![Nosferatu (1922).avi_snapshot_01.28.20_[2015.05.07_16.37.07].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Vbgc7YT.jpg "Nosferatu (1922).avi_snapshot_01.28.20_[2015.05.07_16.37.07].jpg")
>>46430465
I do believe that only started becoming a popular trait after Nosferatu but I agree. Take too many weaknesses away and you just end up with supermen.
>>46439005
Be fair, eating at a late night eatery is something I imaigne nearly all settings with vampires do.
I mean sure you're some mockery of undeath posing as a refined human but there's non reason you can't enjoy a greasy burger and fries.it's not like you can suffer a heart attack any more.
>>46430500
>trope
>something that is in most of ye olden storys told about vampires
The "im a special vampire that dose not fear the sun" is a trope, not the other way around.
>>46439371
Except that all that stuff turns to ash in your mouth, or even worse, since you have no bodily functions, ends up in your stomach and rots, making you a host for fungi, mold and vermin as you become bloated with rotting organic matter.
Nicely done, fucker, you ruined the one thing you had going for you.
Because ancient Aztec masks aren't exactly easy to come by.
>>46439457
I turn into mist and it all falls out.
Rinse and repeat.
>>46439443
This whole thread is only making the problem more obvious. If the argument for vampires is "here's this one setting specific type of vampire that my image of one," discussion isn't going to go anywhere.
>>46439457
>not wanting to be a fungal vampire, or a creepy-ass rotting immortal
>>46439588
>88 dubs
heil hitler
But on a more serious note, im basing this mianly on mythology, because that how i homebrew a fuck ton of fantasy creatures. And im from slavland, so i like seeing my party suddenly realise how fucked they are when fighting a normal ghoul.
>>46439549
And then you teleport behind your enemies and slice them with your 1000-times folded katana?
>>46439652
Which would seem like the most sensible way to go about it, but the image of vampires by setting has changed so much in pop culture and through outliers like Dracula that it's like arguing voodoo zombie myths in a discussion where everybody else just watched 28 days later.
>>46439443
>ye olden
Holy water and crosses are "ye olden", impalement is "old", and garlic is "20th c pretending to be olde" old. The sun thing doesn't show up at all in the folklore from different European countries.
>inb4 i responded to bait
>>46439635
The just go moss Lich http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/moss-lich-cr-2
>>46439296
>look it up
>read the rest
>it's shit
The joke is that they do not look normal hue hue hue
>>46439760
The sun shows up in most slavic myhtology and from what i remember (not at the library so i dont have my books) in some germanic folk lore.
>>46439777
There's a reason I didn't post the rest, and that's it.
The best immortality magic isFriendship.
>>46439855
Pretty sure you're mistaking death by fire with death by sunlight.
>>46439982
That's just asking for a wizard couple to get married and cast that spell at the altar on each other with their wedding rings as the focus.
And that's adorable.
>>46430373
Wizards avoid the sun to begin with
>>46430324
Vampires have a serious stigma, towns will riot, mobs will form, and elite orders of vampire hunters will rise at the meme mention of the word.
Vampires WILL be hunted until found, there is no room for error.
Liches on the other hand are extremely obscure. The average farmer will have no idea what a lich is, much less how bad they really are. Liches can hide and sleep for hundreds of years before being discovered, and even then, adventurers are far less likely to actually kill it due to their phylacteries.
>>46439855
The Slav's tradition of vampires is incredibly muddled. Comfused with werewolves or combined with werewolves, evil spirit babies, etc.
>>46440356
>meme mention
Typo'd 'mere.'
Derp.
>>46440356
This is dumb as shit. People back then murdered anyone who was different. Burn people at the stake because they had red hair and then called them witches or demons as an afterthought.
The idea that they'd be a walking skeleton and "welp, never seen that before... better go against all evidence and ignore it and continue farming" is completely retarded.
>>46440440
I think it's more "vampires need to actively hunt and prey on humans", which puts them into close proximity and interaction.
Liches can wall themselves in and have !literally no knowledge of the outside world as they do their thing.
For the farmer, the first is a supernatural monster that must be burnt and killed until it is dead.
The other is a weird old building on the outskirts that might be haunted.
>>46439505
But is the forehead-dick negotiable though?
>>46430465
Bitch no. Dracula would travel in broad daylight without giving a pile of shit.
>>46440726
Draculas don't go out during the day.
>>46438091
I want this Lich to just hate every other race save it's original one. Southern too, if it can work.
>>46440511
That's where you get off the beaten track. Early historical accounts of "vampires" are filled with abandoned manors burned to the ground after mysterious disappearances of people. Sure, if no-one murders others in secret in town, then an eerie abandoned building is safe.... but there's never been a time like that.
>>46440859
That black girl on the right was a cutie. Curse you anon for dumping your nostalgia shit on me.
>>46430324
>Yes, okay, liches are better in every way that matters, but they're harder to become and if you fail your soul is thrown into the Abyss or whatever.
If a mage is powerful and ambitious enough to even be considering something like this, they will not give a fuck about a slightly higher chance of success if it will be significantly less powerful.
The whole thing is super imbalanced.
Comparing a folk legend with a super-warlord dnd version of a fantasy novel creature that was inspired by a Tolkien creature that was based on a folk legend.
Might as well pick the most overpowered version of vampire since the most overpowered version of draugr was put up against it.
>>46430324
Why not become a vampire before you become a lich? I imagine that that transition would be much easier.
>>46443043
http://realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/vampirelord.shtml
>>46443176
That just puts an adnd 2nd ed vamp up to the classic vamp tier. You'd have to make him the adopted son of the devil; death's lover; etc to make it the OP vamp.
>>46443125
You'd be Double Undead. Un-alive, maybe?
I wonder what happens if one member of the vampire family decides to become a Lich one day?
>>46443125
would you still have a soul to bind? I don't think so.
>>46430448
Fate tends to frown on people who make themselves a worse immortal to become a better immortal later. It almost never works out because some failing of the lesser immortality fucks everything up.
>>46430495
I never understood why a lich's body need be dead at all. Keep eating and drinking healthy and your body should stay alive, right? Every few decades kill yourself, phylactery makes new body, boom, youthful again.This is assuming newer definition of lich where the phylactery MAKES a body and doesn't need one laying around.
>>46437081
That's why he's giggling though. The chaos of a manual on how to become a lich being mass produced and spread would be hilarious. Powerful wizards go into a frenzy trying to determine whether it's a trap; stupid wizards do it right away and while some succeed many fuck up and die off, leaving a power vacuum; churches everywhere begin book burning crusades, drawing ire from everyone as the more corrupt churches add more and more book titles to the burn list; various holy orders begin arming for the inevitable war against all the liches; various wizarding guilds debate the morality of becoming a lich, with some claiming that liches don't necessarily have to be evil. This is hilarious to think about. Someone run a game with this, please.
>>46444520
Simple answer: lich literally means corpse.
Non-simple answer: you aren't "the body" anymore, you're the phylactery. "The body" is just a puppet.
You can shove food into a puppet, doesn't mean it's eating. You can move a puppet, doesn't mean it's alive.
"The body" is vacant, you're soul moved away.
>>46439275
Why does his sword never change?
>>46439341
The joke in that one is the warrior has lain with women and is thus not pure, so he can't kill the lich. Lich basically shames him into leaving.
>>>comic literally goes:
>i haven't had visitors for 500 yrs
>im not here to visit u
>fml
>>46444784
>>the joke is he's lain with women
>>shames him into leaving
10/10 best insight into the mind of a troll.
![tumblr_n6rrhk6Lrd1qk84mgo3_1280[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/yv6rIsX.jpg "tumblr_n6rrhk6Lrd1qk84mgo3_1280[1].jpg")
>>46444888
Er, what? That's literally the rest of the comic.
>>46445049
How could one unfuck a girl without fucking around with time and concepts?
>yfw u realize these daily "liche r da bestest" threads are advertisements for an upcoming vol 2 of a shitty kickstarter comic
>>46430324
>Unkillable and immortal, unless your enemies find and destroy a small item
vs
>Immortal and somewhat tough to kill, except from a few specific sources
>>46445369
They weren't until you opened your goddamn mouth.
>>46445387
More like
>you might need a cleric
vs
>you're gonna fucking need a cleric
>>46445454
Cleric into Lich. All Inflict spells.
>>46445434
how much did they pay you to schill for them
>>46437384
>he got his magic from studying at Scholomance
Dracula played WoW?
>>46445546
Me? I'm saying there would have been no goddamn connection but then he went and made one.
>>46445514
>AoE holy spell
>expecting your undead flesh wouldn't crumble immediately
top kek
>>46439064
Yeah how is that working out usurper?
>>46445683
>Not understanding mechanics this badly
>>46444520
>I never understood why a lich's body need be dead at all.
Undead are dead bodies walking by definition, but it's a bit more than that. Liches are almost universally what happens when you go full wizard, and even the few who aren't still don't care about such petty things as bodies. They're not skeletons by nature, they're skeletons because they just don't care about anything but their arcane power, or whatever they went lich mode for.
>>46445992
Considering the world is ending now anyway, I'd say the Tremere had a pretty nice run.
>>46430448
A Vampire is just as a soulless of a being as all the other kinds of undead. Their souls are gone on to the great beyond whatever that might be in the setting. Being a Lich requires you take your soul and shove it in a thing.
You can't shove your soul into a phylactery if its gone.
>>46446018
>>mechanics
>thinking this hypothetical is limited to pen-n-paper
>getting this butt-blasted when called out on bs that wouldn't work in reality
Setting off a "grenade" in your own face is retarded when you can holy "shot-gun" him in his face. Also, you must have a real lazy dm.
>>46446179
>liches are what happens when you go full wizard
that post is what happens when you go full retard.
>>46445310
Wish I had that Simpsons frame for "Das the joke."
>>46430500
They were weakened/limited in their abilities by the sun, yes. But yes, they didn't burn to dust from it.
>You will never be haunted by a useless lesbian vampire who wants to spend all her time petting you and telling you about why you should not fear death.
>>46436994
>Alchemial
Basic elixir of eternal youth - no frills, no flaws, no extra boons.
>Outsider
Binding your memories to your soul and just Plane Shifting out of the afterlife is an excellent backup plan, but performing a more complicated ritual can allow you to become a more powerful Outsider like a Djinn. However, all of these are vulnerable to bindings, and many have addtional restrictions.
>Divine
Technically a form of the above, getting any measure of divine potency halts aging and offers increasing amounts of perks. However, it's legendarily difficult to perform, and almost universally opposed by all the existing gods.
>Construct
Oftentimes, a mage replaces some or all of his body with that of a golem, Warforged, or other nonliving being. When well done, they gain great strength and durability on top of their magical powers. However, it always saps creativity in some measure, and any miscalculation or error can make your new life a (semi-)living hell.
>Favors
By far the most varied type, currying favor with a much more powerful entity such as a diety, great Fey, or powerful demon can grant any style you so choose. However, its functioning is often subject to their whims - forcing you to be bound as such.
>>46447613
Philosopher's Stone is probably #1. Stealing God-hood, or finding a necromancy loophole is probably #2. Vampire and revenant is last at #3.
>>46447448
I think I read this book.... Minus the lesbian bit.
>>46447613
I always figured combining the theory behind phylacteries with a practical application of golem/warforged body would work best. A second form, which would be more difficult on a personal level, would be to figure out how to program a warforged with your entire psyche, in effect making a second you. This of course leads to the problem of there now being two of you, and it doesn't keep the first you alive. If you have the mental fortitude for it I suppose you could do this and then work with your copy to get a lot of research done before your first self expires.
>>46430324
Besides being better (and sexier)in every way, I feel that there is more agency in becoming a lich. You take destiny into your own hands. Most vampires don't have a say in whether they become vamps or not.
Anectodally I've noted that players who want to play as liches or undead skellytons have been pretty cool, whilst players who want to be vampires are fucking annoying as shit
>Playing half spider - half vampire wizard. 1st level (count as level 4 though due to ECL)
>First session
>5 guards with muskets and silver shot burst into out family home and kill our mother
>It just me and my brother in the house
>I hide and silently move for the secret exit along the ceiling
>my brother scrambles through the chimney system
>the guards know we're all vampires, and are searching for my brother
>There's a cleric with them too... he detects our magical send messaging
>Despite hiding with a 28 roll for hide, one guard rolls a 20 and spots me, fires his musket at me (1 shot would probably remove all my hitpoints)
>he misses. I cast sleep and send him to sleep
>my bro pops out of a nearby fireplace and magic missiles the next guard (he's a mage)
>the cleric turns my brother, and he flees back through the chimney
>Second guard rolls a 20 on spot and sees me too! He fires with the musket, just missing me
>I cast color spray on the second guard and he is blinded, stunned, etc for 4 ish rounds
>I make my way to the secret exit, trigger the door
>Cleric turns me, and I cower in fear, fleeing through the secret passages
We're only young vampire spawn, about 20 odd. the encounter was slightly above our level but a good challenge. Thankfully my racial abilities from vampirism and my half-spider race make for an incredibly stealthy wizard. I was rolling 32 ish for move silently, and mid 20 hides.
>mfw never been on the receiving end of a "turn undead" before. That shit could have disintegrated us if the cleric rolled high enough
Not enough lich porn, which makes me sad
Why not have both?
Choose vampire as your race, then turn into a lich once you get to a high enough level to handle it.
>>46446225
Is...is this post from thirteen years ago?
>>46439064
Hey, technically, the Tremere now come in both vampire *and* lich flavor!
>Oh, Nü Mage...
>Fucking shoot me
>>46439002
>Dies to removal
I chuckled
>>46430373
That's why you get a bigger wizard hat
>>46439675
not even that anon but every fucking good setting where vampires exist they can shapeshift, usually to wolf, bat and mist.
>>46445577
>The Scholomance (modern Romanian Solomonanţă) was fabled to be a legendary school of black magic run by the Devil, supposedly located near an unnamed lake in the mountains south of the city of Hermannstadt (Nagyszeben in Hungarian, now called Sibiu in Romanian) in Transylvania.
Everybody and their grandma steals the name for their own settings though.
>>46443043
>a super-warlord dnd version of a fantasy novel creature that was inspired by a Tolkien creature that was based on a folk legend
>draugr or whatever
Nigga, D&D lich is Koschei the Deathless. Just. Straight up that guy. Not a viking zombie gone through a wringer of writers.
>>46437025
Do his clothes still show up in the mirror, at least? Maybe that's good enough for him.
>>46439002
You forgot the one major drawback to lich:
>No genitals because you're a damn skeleton
That's gonna be a deal-breaker for a great many people who seek eternal unlife.
>>46452514
>12 inch unbreakable skeleton dick.jpg
>>46452514
Shapechange.
Vampire's genitals are at permanent six o'clock too unless you magic them up.
>>46452514
That's probably not a priority for wizards.
>>46446396
>not knowing a thing about negative energy or evil gods
>assuming one is even bothered beyond being amused by how overwhelmingly wrong you are
>>46430465
Darren Shan vampires could survive almost an hour of sunlight iirc, they just burned super rapidly and hated it.
>>46430443
> Implying I can't use my immense magical prowess to preserve my own body even in death.
>>46452847
>still being so delusional to think this thread is about dnd versions of shit
but plz, keep shit posting.
>>46448756
The book was Carmilla.
It was very much fun.
>>46449691
>things that never happened the post
>TFW I just want a group of undead scientists that operate in place where mortals cannot for the benefit of humanity.
>>46430324
If you don't risk you don't drink.
>>46438757
Haha, perfect.
>>46439002
>>Can't look at yourself in the mirror so prone to embarrassment at social events
This is probably 99% of why Vampires end up enslaving servants, so they can have somebody to keep them groomed. Then after a while they get tired of the servant whining about not being groomed, so they go get another one to groom the first servant, and next thing you know, you've got a fucking clan.
Savvy vampire hunters always head to barbers and salons first thing when they reach a new city, as professionals are a prime target.
>>46430373
>nerd
>sunlight
choose one.
>>46430324
Because vampires are complete shit and you should feel bad for bringing them up
>>46452514
If your powerful enough to become a lich, I'm sure you can figure out how to make a ghost boner or a better glamour
