Discussthe culture wins
Space marine augmentations seem more extensive, and definitely seem to serve to make better warriors. Arguably, their technology is better.
In comparison, though, and depending on the specific chapter, their training and doctrine is very typically shit. Spartans are soldiers, not warriors, and they fight like operators, not trophy hunters. They don't pray to their gun, don't mind being disohonorable, don't mind avoiding engagements, and are not above using xenos equipment, and don't limit themselves to the Codex Astartes.
In a direct battle, most things being even, Space Marines would almost certainly be victorious. Spartans, however, would almost certainly avoid direct battle. Compared to Space Marines, Spartans would excel at guerilla-style warfare and strive to achieve less direct victories. Psykers would make a big difference. It'd be a lot like fighting the Tau empire. Imperium only wins the war by being waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay bigger than all other opposition. Remove that advantage and the Imperium struggles against most fictitious factions simply because everything they do is soooooo incredibly ignorant and wasteful.
If a blank-slate galaxy were created, and both a UNSC-style human faction and an Imperium-Style human faction were placed at opposite ends, and given the same total amount of resources/resistances and, say, 100 years to get entrenched, the UNSC would probably win because their methodology would make much more efficient use of those equal resources and be better about negotiating with xenos races. Imperium would basically have to rely on the advantage psykers and warp-travel bring.
>>46426691
Space MarineDon't Fuck with the Culture
>>46430082
/thread
Ok, let's turn this thread into: THINGS THAT COULD BEAT THE IMPERIUM and CHARACTERS THAT COULD KILL A SPACE MARINE
I proclaim The Last of the Metabarons would beat the Imperium by himself.
>>46426691
You're not wrong.
>>46430511
OK, what about... The Principality of Zeon? More specifically, I wanna see Zaku wrestling with Imperial Knights.
>>46426691
The Imperium would drown the UNSC in ordinance.
Mainly due to the Mechanicus's mass production capabilities and their disregard for safety.. And their technology is by far more advanced.
>>46429214
> the UNSC would probably win because their methodology would make much more efficient use of those equal resources and be better about negotiating with xenos races.
I honestly have doubts about this. The UNSC are kind of hilariously under-gunned. IIRC, they still use the 7.62mm standard NATO round and they're main battle tank uses ammunition that went out of vogue some time in the Vietnam War (90mm shells, I think).
>>46430597
And Imperial tanks are not much better than WW2 ones.
>>46430675
>Using out dated and unsupported sources
Why don't we also use the half eldar half human libririan space marine for this battle too?
>>46430559
Zakus can fly and have energy swords, they make tau crisis look primitive.
>>46426691
>The culture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GLvBLO-blY
>>46430751
>Zaku
>energy sword
They have heat axes, and they can't fly. They can jump pretty far though. Unless we are talking SEED zakus, those did have energy swords, don't remember if they could fly though.
>>46430597
You don't win by having the shiniest guns, you win by getting the most guns ti the battle field and keeping them shooting. Production and Logistics win wars, and the Imperium's is a nightmare.
Given the same amount of resources, (IE, Materials to produce weapons, ships, and guns) as the Imperium, the UNSC would be able to field SPARTANS as if they were IG. A dozen UNSC frigates could be made for the cost of a single Imperium crusier.
>>46426691
better question
40k vs the forerunners who wins
>>46430511
>THINGS THAT COULD BEAT THE IMPERIUM
Just from Halo there's the Forerunners. Then we havethe Culture. I think some of the beings/races from Stargate could wreck the Imperium's shit given the opportunity. Also Farscape. Do not fuck with John Crichton and his Wormhole Universal Murder Machine.
I honestly think Star Wars' Empire has them beat in space and in sheer numbers, but Imperium rapes them planetside.
Oh. And the Daleks. Never mind Timelords.
>CHARACTERS THAT COULD KILL A SPACE MARINE
I don't know. Depends on setting. Krillin could do it no problem from DBZ. I'm sure the average DC or Marvel character could bring one down. A Jedi or Sith could too. Hell, most bullshit anime characters tend to end up on a power scale that'd scare the Ultramarines shitless. The Doctor? Bill Cipher? Keeping with the Halo theme, Master Chief is a badass no matter how you slice it, and has survived shit on par with or greater than your average SM.
Kind of a broad question.
>>46430810
You might not have realised, but the Imperium actually has a tremendous ability to mass produce weaponry and soldiers on a mass scale unheard of by moist other universes/armies. You only hear about the mishaps and fuck ups though..
Oh look, this thread again.
>>46430511
>THINGS THAT COULD BEAT THE IMPERIUM
Spreadsheets.
>>46430831
If every 40k faction is united against the forerunners, I'll go with 40k because of daemons.
Also necron space science could be on par with the forerunners.
>>46430810
>the Imperium's is a nightmare.
Is a nightmare when you have to deal multiple threads on a galactic scale, I would fear the logistics of the administrarum against a single for with half galaxy of resources.
>>46430859
Because they have a tremendous amount of resources, since they mostly control most of the galaxy. So, try again, but this time read this part:
>Given the same resources...
>>46430810
>Production and Logistics win wars, and the Imperium's is a nightmare.
The UNSC don't get to point fingers with regards to that. Especially not since they were really only fighting (and losing) a one-front war.
>>46430878
necron spess science on par with everything
>>46430843
>I honestly think Star Wars' Empire has them beat in space and in sheer numbers,
IOM space ships void shields are better than the SW ships, also IOM ships doesn't need to be at short range like SW ships to be effective.
>>46430899
>implying I didn't
>>46430903
Yeah, they suck real bad for losing the dozen or so systems that they hold against a much larger, much more technologically advanced civilization.
Meanwhile the Imperium struggles against forces a 6 forces each an 8th its size. They are masters of warfare.
Where do Warframes measure up on the future supersoldier power listings?
Just from the general feel of their games I'd put Warframes above Spartans, you can't turbo-slaughter entire rooms with space magic as Spartans after all.
Maybe they're around Eldar level for 40k?
>>46430980
They are DAoT anon
>>46430980
Man who even fucking knows. The lore for that setting is so confusing, what little of it there is.
>>46430957
Ok. But since both are wildly inconsistent settings, I'll go with the one that has objectively bigger numbers. I believe 75-90% of a Galaxy is bigger than 25% of one?
>>46430963
Alright, what do you know about STC that makes producing huge flying space cathedrals with tons of structural weaknesses, worthless ornamentation, and cubic acres of wasted space more efficient than conventional production of something with logical design?
Because it sounds like you're saying that a culture that spends the resources for 20 ships on 1 ship that could only do the job of 7 or 8 ships would be able to out-produce another culture that would make those 20 ships instead, if both had the same square footage of factory space. And I want to know why you think that.
>>46431027
Because those ships that do the job or 7 or 8 ships in your opinion do the job of 30 in mine
>>46431044
Oh, so you're saying the Imperium ship design is incredibly efficient.
You're just a fucking moron, then.
>>46430967
>8th its size
Dude the galactic north is plagued by orkz and they rapidly replenish their number if left unchecked, each Craftworld have probably the same numbers of warriors like high charity, necrons exist by trillions just waiting to wake up, Tyranids might be numberless for all we know, dark eldar can produce as many warriors as they need, daemons never truly die unless the correct procedure applied and we aren't counting the many other races that don't have an army on tabletop.
>>46431024
Except the Galactic Empire is fucking tiny. The GE considers a massive fleet to be 25,000 Imp Star Deuces. Which are laughably outgunned by IOM frigates.
>>46431073
Compared to the Imperium of Man.
>>46431024
Well the IOM aren't pushovers either they can built a cruiser class battleship on a stone age planet in a year, forgeworlds produce many times more and the imperium have lots of those.
God into a little debate with a buddy the other day, i didnt know shit about metroid but space marine vs samus is a bad pairing, she wipes the floor with many many space marines
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/FvGL8Of.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
The Imperium, the UNSC, and the Galactic Empire are each given a third of the galaxy and 100 years to build up and entrench before war begins.
And then pic related is dumped on some random world on the eve of war.
How long does it take to conquer the galaxy, and which of the three put up the bigger fight.
>>46431066
bungee spunk is dribbling from your mouth, anon.
>>46426691
Aren't space marines supposed to be like 7 feet tall? Black Crusade says they are around 6'11'' in armour. That's like 3 inches shorter than Master Chief.
In their respective primary games, spartans and space marines can be killed by basic infantry weapons. A sniper rifle to the face kills/KOs both of them instantly. Space marines and spartans can be punched/stabbed to death by relatively normal xenos/humans.
In their respective books, space marines are gods of war who are nearly impossible to kill: immune to all but the most massed small arms fire and resistant to anti-tank weapons and inhumanly quick. Master chief can react and think faster than any unaugmented human, able to dodge bullets and literally slap missiles out of the air. His shield is basically immune to small arms fire and can repeatedly tank plasma rifle shots. Like 40k, plasma rifles can destroy tanks in the books. Also like 40k, master chief realizes he might die if he fights a hunter in melee. This parallels a space marine fighting an ogryn (who can easily kill CSM in melee in fluff.)
In addition space marines are not stupid, they are often operators operating operationally, use of cover, camouflage, tactics and everything.
Space marines are probably slightly stronger and tougher (assuming they can flip tanks). Spartans are probably slightly faster (assuming the fastest spartans can keep up with eldar bakers).
It really comes down to equipment. 50 cal machine guns struggle against spartan armour and human made small arms are not doing shit to space marine armour, give either person a plasma weapon or power sword and it starts becoming rocket tag.
Assuming equivalent equipment space marine wins 60% in melee and Spartan wins 60% at range is my gut feeling. If a captain or someone else equivalently filled with the power of the emperor is present and not fighting the very best spartans, that immediately jumps to like 90% at range and 95% in melee.
>>46431066
The works of genius is below all the ornaments anon, the STC designs are wonders beyond anything we can conceive, the imperium just put bling all over the supre tech and us testament of their efficiency when they work despite the cathedrals on top of them.
>>46430967
The Imperium isn't just fighting a 6 front war. Its fighting against 6 separate forces on a huge number of fronts, constantly. There is no point in time in all the Imperium that it is not at war. It is able to send troops and material to all of these fronts simultaneously, and win at least as often as it loses.
The Imperium did not put all its resources into fighting the Tau. It didn't even put a significant portion of its resources into fighting the Tau. The Imperium has never put a significant portion of its resources into fighting any single faction, except perhaps Chaos.
Its really easy to claim that the Imperium is bad at logistics until you consider the fact that it is constantly coordination literally millions of men across thousands of battlefields at the same time. A hundred fuck ups are to be expected. US marines today can't even consistently get everything they need and they're not even supposed to be fighting a "war."
>>46426691
What can the Master Chief do that no Space Marine in all of 40K can?Save Humanity.
>>46431117
>Spartans are probably slightly faster (assuming the fastest spartans can keep up with eldar bakers).
How fast are Eldar bakers, by the way?
100 loaves an hour? 50 croissants a minute?
>>46426691
Someone was already autistic enough to go through this
>>46431117
>literally slap missiles out of the air.
Minor bit, I think it's Cortana, not Chief, who handles the timing for stuff like that. Of course you might be able to count them as a fighting unit so I'm not sure it makes much difference.
>>46430843
The Master Chief is a total badass, I think he could take an average Space Marine. He is the greatest of the spartans after all.
But could the greatest of the spartans take on the greatest of the space marines?
>>46431143
How exactly does the Imperial logistics network function? Is the administratum actually somewhat layed out to support the IG in a meaningful manner, or is it just a bunch of semi-autonomous, decentralized nodes asking someone to get them something, knowing that at some point down the line someone will know someone else who can get the stuff.
>>46430967
>each an 8th its size
tyranids alone outnumber the imperial military
orks alone would also do that
and that's not even getting into the fact that they're also fighting the forces of hell, doom style.
They've remained the galactic superpower for ten thousand years in a state of constant total galactic war. While functionally being the dying, beheaded corpse of an empire. UNSC is baby tier in comparisonMuch like the Imperium is baby tier to other, larger science fiction empires
halo sux 40k roolz get dunked on vidyafag
>>46431027
Dude the Arc mechanicum ships can fire black holes and use chrono targeters to make sure those black holes won't miss they are still produced by the mechanicus for their fleets and they have hundreds if not thousands of fleets just for Mars agenda, only the dead star and the star killer are on that level of reckless destruction
>>46431146
One loaf per decade, but it's the best bread you will ever eat, and wars have been fought over baking exarch lemon bars.
>bungiefag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG_aSi3_NbI
>>46431163
>But could the greatest of the spartans take on the greatest of the space marines?
Impossible Cato sicarius is fucking invincible and we hate him because of this.
>>46431163
I, Cato Sicarius find it laughable that any Spartan could best I, Cato Sicarius on the field of battle!
>>46430082
>>46426691
>there will never be more Culture books
My fucking heart.
>>46431241
What is this Culture joke that I'm missing? I have no idea what you guys are on about?
>>46431199
Necron bread is tough, tasteless and makes the eater vaguely want to kill everyone else. It literally lasts forever though, even fruitcake will decay first.
>>46431146
As fast as a white scar chapter master and faster than 99% of space marines. The difference between space marine and eldar poet or drug addict is literally the same difference between a human poet or drug addict and a space marine.
>>46431148
I consider her equipment/cybernetics in that scenario. If i remember correctly it is a little of both of them.
>>46431105
Who or what is that supposed to be, even?
>>46431256
you need to leave.
>>46431241
>You will never be a bisexual Special Circumstances agent with a sardonic drone partner
>>46431262
I think it's from the Command and Conquer series, but don't quote me on that.
>>46431228
>Cato sicarius
Not the marysue Draigo?
>you will never be an ancient spaceship with a cool name and possess enough firepower to wipe out entire fleets in microseconds.
>>46431105
>1 hour after quantum incursion
The ACU has already set up a fully functional primary base and econ is stable, ready to proceed with exponential growth.
>12 hours after quantum incursion
ACU has begun tiling the surface of the planet in fractal complexes of factories, defensive structures, power generators and matter converters, and so forth. Every inch, foot, block, and region is simultaneously a fortress, factory, and farm at every square foot.
The rate of expansion continually increases as a majority of factories are devoted to producing engineers.
>24 hours after quantum incursion
The planet has been entirely tiled in production and resource facilities, and the ACU has begun construction of orbital shipyards and mass quantum teleport relays.
All nearby stellar debris has been converted into pure energy, and nearby stellar bodies have begun being transformed and being connected to the network.
>48 hours after quantum incursion
As the various forces across the galaxy are making their move, hundreds upon hundreds of vessels suddenly appear in nearby systems (let's assume they're imperial)
Local PDF are baffled and terrified as gigantic transports protected by powerful shields descend upon their worlds and disgorge legions of war machines, the smallest of which are the size of baneblades. While the defenders have some initial success against the vanguard forces, massive quantum gates are quickly erected at their landing points. An unending horde of vehicles and terrifying super weapons pour forth from the ACU's center of operations.
>72 hours after quantum incursion
Initial planets have been conquered, transformed, and added to the quantum network. The next fleet of vanguard ships are sent out, this time numbering in the thousands upon thousands.
>168 hours after quantum incursion
A quarter of the galaxy has been conquered, the ACU's fleets blot out the stars and the weight of its armies cause tremors felt from across worlds.
>>46431262
Armored Command Unit from Supreme Commander. It uses nanomachines to break down matter and turn said matter into war machines.
>>46431256
The Culture is an anarchistcommunistutopianimperialistsociety where everything is just fine as long as you get along with them nicely.Don't fuck with the Culture.
>>46431279
Well, that was a given.
>>46431291
>culture ship names
>cool
If you're a smarmy douche maybe.
>>46431290
He's a wizard, he's expected to be broken, also Cato sicarius have more victories than most chapter masters and he's still a "young" captain.
>>46431301
The culture would be pretty awesome desu if it weren't so fucking hedonistic.
All that power, technology, and knowledge, and they give themselves over to pleasure rather than virtue.
>>46431164
Roll of the dice. A mix of warp-fuckery, records being scrambled and warp-travel sometimes screwing up means that everything is literally on the Emperor's hands.
>>46431262
Grey goo given humanoid form that listens to orders.
>>46431117
This post gave me cancer.
>Spartans can flip tanks lolol game mechanics matter lolol
Are you retarded? Game mechanics have nothing to do with a reality of a fiction. Game mechanics are an abstraction so this thing called a GAME can exist. Spartans cannot flip Scorpions, and likewise Spartans do not die due to casual bitchslaps. Also Space Marines in videogames are fucking retardedly durable, so you really don't want to go down that road.
>But FFG said...
FFG aint' canon.
>Master Chief can slap missiles
No he can't. That was done entirely by Cortana, and he didn't slap the missile out of the air, he positioned his body at the last second to glance it off his armor.
>Spartan shields are stronk
Spartan shields are fucking garbage compared to power armor. We know that MJOLNER shields can be popped with around a magazine and a half of 7.62mm rifle rounds. The kinetic energy from that in a modern sense is impressive, but a single bolt from a boltgun delivers enough energy, before even exploded, to deplete MJOLNER shields by half or more. On top of this boltguns will tear through simple titanium armor with incredible ease due to boltguns functioning like miniaturized HEAT rounds. Spartan guns meanwhile are utter shit, the only thing Spartans have in their arsenal that could possibly penetrate power armor is the Spartan Laser and that takes a fuckload of time to charge up making it effectively useless. The only way Spartans can even kill a Space Marine by shooting them is if the Spartans raided a Forerunner base and are packing Forerunner antimatter guns. But that'd be like a Marine pulling out a fucking grav gun.
>>46431164
As far as I know its spotty at best about the details. There's always the usual exaggerated passages of "thousands of miles of dataslates blah blah blah hundreds of billions of something or other etc." when they talk about the Administratum, but never really any details about its actual functionality.
With the astropaths being able to send and receive messages across the galaxy reasonably reliably it does become a bit more reactive than it could be. I imagine most IG regiments travel with the material to support themselves for a fairly lengthy time (measuring in years I'd bet), bonus for their main armament not requiring ammunition. Anything longer than that would require resupply, probably at the request of whoever happened to be in charge of whatever front they're on.
>>46431314
There is virtue in innocence. Why do you think the Minds try to shield their charges from the evils of the world?
>>46431309
>Fate Amenable To Change
>The Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival
>Sense Amid Madness, Wit Amidst Folly
Alright, you're right. I only found three that weren't for smarmy douches.I still like all of them.
>>46430799
>can fly
>has energy sword
This is No Zaku boy, no Zaku
>>46429214
>Compared to Space Marines, Spartans would excel at guerilla-style warfare
>he doesn't know about the Night Lords
>he doesn't know about the Raven Guard
>he doesn't know about the Alpha Legion
>he doesn't know anything
>>46431354
>There is virtue in innocence.
I wouldn't call the culture's citizens "innocent", in the immediate sense of the word.
And why is being protected and shielded from evil good? Why is suffering bad? Suffering is a major part of what drives the individual to greater heights, not chasing whatever fleeting fancy their pleasure-addled mind happens upon.
>>46431361
I believe I addressed that, by referring to them as SeeD zakus. UC zakus don't have energy swords because their reactors aren't powerful enough to support them, and none of the (non transforming)MS in UC could fly. Cosmic era zakus however, did have energy weapons, though as I said, I don't remember if they were capable of atmospheric flight.
>>46429214
Space Marines can track smells as well as a bloodhound and can filter the noise they hear or enhance them, so good luck sneaking up on one. And that's ignoring the fact that some chapters specialise in stealth, while still wearing their Power Armour. Fuck, an entire Raven Guard company spent 2 years behind enemy lines and never got caught.
>>46431105
>>46431297
>>46431298
>>46431328
I'd prefer an ARM Commander.
>>46431314
Why bother with Virtue though. An average citizen of The Culture has literally zero impact on anything at all. The entire humanoid population of The Culture could disappear and it would function almost exactly the same, besides the ships wondering where all the passengers went. When you don't matter, literally anything you are capable of could, and will, be done better, faster and more beautifully by a machine, its a wonder they do anything but fuck and take drugs. The only reason people do anything in The Culture is something to do to stave off boredom.
Contact and Special Circumstances only employs humans because the Minds in charge of them don't want to end up seeming too handsy with the lower civs, and it looks better if you have fleshers doing some important stuff.
Asking why The Culture is Hedonist is to deny the fact that people get bored.
>>46431073
>>46431143
>>46431182
All of those factions are also fighting each other, and not just the Imperium.
>>46431112
>>46431182
Cool. I pulled the 20/7-8 number out my ass. You guys are saying that: If the UNSC used the same amount of material to produce their ships as the Imperium uses to produce one ship, they wouldn't be able to hold more planets and ship more materials, nor would that X number of ships be able to damage/destroy/or defeat as single ship. You are saying that a single Imperium ship would every possible advantage over X number of same-materials-costing UNSC ships.
Just in the amount of cubits of oxygen needed per crew member, the UNSC is a dozen times more efficient. And yet you are saying that, WITH ACCESS TO THE SAME AMOUNT OF RAW MATERIALS, including not just the ores, but the same amount of materials to produce mining equipment and factories, the air, food, and water to supply the workforce, and time spent to make those things, that the Imperium, who's fluff is that they are completely fuck-off shitbrained backwards and are only able to keep up their current pace because they already own all of the rocks in the galaxy, can out produce the UNSC.
Tell me more. Don't give me example of how the Imperium can build ships in a day with a galaxy of resources. Tell me how the UNSC wouldn't be able to match that feat with the same galaxy of resources.
>>46431147
None of which takes into account the Imperiums shitbird weaknesses, like praying to your gun and calling for a duel instead of killing.
>>46429214
And this post gave me more cancer.
How can people know so little about 40k when this board is spammed with it nonstop?
>he actually thinks space marines are honorable
>>46431145
/thread
>>46431362
>said depending on the chapter.
Average chapter of average baseline marines are not Ravenguard/Nightlords/Alphalegion good. They are Ultramarines and Red Scorpions.
>>46431409
Speaking of, what do you think of Ashes of the Singularity?
There's a tad bit less tactics going on overall, but the meta-unit mechanics and auto-reinforce are really fucking neato.
>>46431416
Praying to your gun literally helps keep demons out of it though.
It has legitimate use.
>>46431434
So, still pretty damn good at it. Just not specialists.
>>46431434
So you mean they're all tactically brilliant chapters who curbstomp enemies with precognition or endless hordes of enemies almost flawlessly unless the enemy happens to be Necrons?
>>46431177
The Imperium controls less than 1% of the galaxy if you take the fluff literally. They're literally a drop in the bucket and not even worth calling a galactic empire. Really, they need to be 3-4 orders of magnitude larger to even be on the map. Alas, poor Gdubs have no sense of scale. On the other hand, it'd be hard for space marines to be special snowflakes if there were billions of them (still special compared to quadrillions of IG and quintillions of PDF).
>>46431438
Never heard of it.
>>46431438
Bought it and returned it. It ran like shit and the gameplay wasn't inspiring.
>>46430799
>heat axe
Is still energy weapon m8, it emit energy projections on its edge just like beam sword, but not as full.
>>46431440
No it doesnt. The prayers and litanies are meant to represent instructions for maintenance that have been twisted into a religious belief that what youre doing isnt technological knowledge but faith based, just like the priests atomic tech in the Foundation series on which that part of 40k lore is based.
>>46431329
In order
General mechanics are important because people tend to cherry pick specific examples out of a sea of bullshit to favor their side.
FFG (and Black Library) are cannon and always have been. Although I agree that they shouldn't be.
Master chief explicitly slaps the missile. Like, turns it away from him with his hand. This is also stupid.
Spartan shields in books are literally like tank armour in terms of resilience. In the primary games of the franchise they have roughly the same resilience as space marines with decades of experience: none.
Don;t take things so seriously frendo ;)
>>46431518
Really? It's running smooth on my machine, and the tactical AI stuff they have going on really shines once you reach 1000+ logistics.
I hope the multiplayer has a good population, though.
>>46430737
Never seen those stats retconned senpai, prove me wrong
>>46431329
Also
>Game mechanics have nothing to do with a reality of a fiction
> MJOLNER shields can be popped with around a magazine and a half of 7.62mm rifle rounds.
Don't go together very well. Unless you forgot that a squad of riflemen couldn't noticeably affect that same shielding with sustained fire and the weak shields are a game balance choice.
>>46430675
You know armor thickness means nothing when we're dealing with materials that don't exist in real life, right?
We don't know the density/heat capacity/etc of "ceramite," "adamantium," "plasteel" etc
>>46431601
I think he or she is referring to the listed conventional steel equivalency.
>>46431416
You're attempting to compare apples to oranges with this whole "MUH SAME RESOURCES" schtick here. Please stop.
The mistake you're making is thinking that the UNSC and the IoM even USE the same resources, which they don't because they're two fictional factions in fictional universes. For example, the UNSC doesn't have diamantine, plasteel, ceramite, warp-made stuff etc. Neither does the Imperium have any Covenant-made stuff or the types of stardrives that ships in Halo employ.
>>46431416
To paraphrase something I once saw, they pray to their guns because they have to. Machine Spirits are not some fanciful thing the Mechanicus cooked up, they are the fragments of trillions of self-aware programms that, after to galaxy-wide civil wars, are forced into every piece of technology that can hold one. So you'd better pray to your gun, because otherwise it might decide to stop working in the middle of a firefight. And that's to say nothing of the spirits in bigger machines.
During the Rynn's World Incident, a Landraider engaged in hit-and-run attacks against the Ork Horde that had descended upon the planets. On its own. Some of it's feats include slaying a Warboss, killing so many Orks it ran out of ammo for its Storm Bolter and the fuel cells ofr its Lascannons ran dry and then luring a bunch of Lootas into itself and then venting its plasma reactor blowing itself and the greenskins up.
>>46431416
>Tell me more. Don't give me example of how the Imperium can build ships in a day with a galaxy of resources. Tell me how the UNSC wouldn't be able to match that feat with the same galaxy of resources.
Can they build a infinity class warship on a stone age world? The imperium can and did, the lunar class cruiser is basically an infinity and they build it in a world without the standard infrastructure for that, forgeworlds are crazy advanced they're capable of building at an insane rate and in times of dire need they do make people work to their dead.
>>46431555
>General mechanics are important because people tend to cherry pick specific examples out of a sea of bullshit to favor their side.
And mean shit because they aren't canon. They exist for a game to exist and are abstractions. They mean nothing and anybody who actually uses them in an argument is being a bloody moron.
>FFG (and Black Library) are cannon and always have been. Although I agree that they shouldn't be.
FFG is not canon. It is not published by GW, but a third party source that is inferior to any contradicting information.
>
Spartan shields in books are literally like tank armour in terms of resilience. In the primary games of the franchise they have roughly the same resilience as space marines with decades of experience: none.
No they don't you lying shit, I own several of the books. Small arms fire poses a risk to Spartans and can pop their shields. Plus we know from the cutscenes of the Halo games that are not game mechanics (and used to be primary canon prior to 343i) that twenty-three bullets can pop a Zelaot's shields. At most a Spartan will only survive ten bolter rounds, and that's a real high fucking end assuming that Spartans have 3+ megajoule shields. And this isn't getting into the momentum of bolts- bolters can send multi ton objects flying with hits. Even if a Spartan somehow survives a burst from a bolter, he'll literally be sent flying two meters or more in the air.
>>46431556
Good for you. Bought it a couple months ago. Played for 1hr. Performance was terribad. I wasn't willing to wait for a patch (why should I keep a game I can't play for however long it takes them to fix the problem). Honestly, Stardock has been going downhill for a while.
>>46431577
Halo Reach, Halo ODST cutscenes show otherwise. They aren't dependent on game mechanics and are set directly by the animators in what used to be primary canon until 343i equalized things. ODST's pop a Brute Chieftain's shields with a shot from the sniper rifle and SMG fire (a laughably pathetic SMG at that), and in reach it takes exactly 23 shots of 7.62mm to pop a Zealot's shields, who are equal or even greater than the shielding on a Spartan II given their status in the Covenant.
>>46431547
They do also ward of daemons, the eagles and winged skull have a purpose, on one of Einserhorn books one priest chase the daemon prince cherubael with an Imperial eagle and it run fucking scared of it, all those eagles and winged skulls do ward against daemons.
>>46431566
Have they been mentioned again? No, I believe they were on forgeworld books and since they haven't been mentioned again on the second editions of imperial armour they are now non canon.
>>46431667
In the book that tells MC's backstory it clarifies that elite shields are universally weak (1-3 bullets) and spartans are near immune to small arms (shields included). Covenant weapons are a different story.
>>46431687
And those shields are shit in the books too.
>>46431658
Also remember it was screaming fucking litanies of battle as it killed the green skins anon, it fucking screamed it's undying fervor to the Emperor as it killed those little shits.
>>46431257
Orks surprisingly favor light pastries and infamous "Cook Bosses" are quite known for having tempers and rages that rival the warbosses of their tribes if their souffle does not rise
>>46431667
Wait, when did contradictory bs stop being canon? i thought that everything was canon as long as it was published with gw's blessing.
What is black library?
>>46431723
>never mentioned again=non canon
>equivalent of fingers in ears lalalala
keep kidding yourself bro
>>46431708
Totally besides the point of my reply
>>46431803
Black Library isn't third party. It's just as canon as everything else, but new material is superior to old material.
>>46431752
>>46431658
Can a guardsman get lewd with his/her lasgun?
>>46431417
>He doesn't know that true honour is simply service to the emperor
>>46431859
>anon belives in the ultramarine half eldar chief librarian
Whew anon what can I say.
>>46431658
I could've sworn that I read something saying that only sufficiently advanced technology that features some sort of self-control systems can have machine spirits. So lasguns, Leman Russes and suchlike don't have them, while most of the gear used by Space Marines do have them as they feature a lot of auto-targeting and autopilot systems.
And then there are battle titans which have such highly developed machine spirits that they're only a couple of shades off of being AIs.
>>46431971
That's unsanctioned use of the lasgun anon, that'll just get your head blow off by the commissar.
>>46431658
Shit AI is Shit AI. I said it was a weakness and you telling me that it would stop in the middle of a fight isn't a counterpoint. Yes, they pray to their guns because they have to. And they have to because they're fucking idiots.
>>46431662
They built this Lunar class on a stone age world with only the items on that stone age world? Did they land naked or land with a ship full of tools and simply strip the world for parts?
Mechanicum worlds have a lot of cool stuff happening, but they also have a lot of useless walkways and shit buttons and space for servo skulls and servants and acolytes and candles and purity seals and waste. Forgeworlds are great, sure. But how many drydocks could the UNSC build with the same amount of >>46431656 equivalent material?
The rate they are able to build at is not particularly "insane" for the scale that they operate at, it's the scale that is insane in comparison to what a lone Earth is used to. If the UNSC were also operating on a galaxy-wide scale, they'd be even more insane. Because they would spend six hours of good production time each day in a ceremony where they fpray to and then fuck the closet doors before installing them, and they wouldn't make captains chairs out of 600 pounds of gold and prometheum when 10 pounds of steel and carbon will do a better job.
>>46431971
>>46432125
Also the lasgun think's of you more like a friend anon, it's nothing personal.
>>46432139
Problem with all this is Chaos. Without faith in the Emperor or some other deep social and/or psychological control, the UNSC would fall to corruption. Before you mention the Tau, their caste system is a form of protection against Chaos if the Fire Warrior novel is anything to go on.
In addition, I don't think the UNSC would do things that much more efficiently than the Mechanicus. Don't mistake conservatism for lack of efficiency. The Mechanicus whole belief system is about making themselves more logical and efficient.
>>46426691
>Special Character Marine (Officer) > Special Character Spartan > Special Character Marine (Non-Officer) > Rank and File Marine > Rank and File Spartan > Space Marine Scouts
>>46432139
Anon they don't have the luxury of resting in a forgeworld, they produce shit all day everyday, as primitive as they look assembly lines of servitors can built shit pretty fast and the mechanicus never lacks of them, prayers are reserved after your shifts, then you sleep 6 hours and come back to work, tech priest have high standards of efficiency, for all the praying and mumble jumble they do get shit done, the mechanicus is more efficient than the unsc.
>>46432139
>Shit AI is Shit AI. I said it was a weakness and you telling me that it would stop in the middle of a fight isn't a counterpoint. Yes, they pray to their guns because they have to. And they have to because they're fucking idiots.
>implying the unsc AI aren't shit
>implying cortana isn't the most advanced and that she isn't shit
They aren't abominant intelligences like those of 40k immortal and beyond anything the unsc can device.
>>46432119
All Imperial machines have them, they can be awakened and when that happens it's all sorts of bullshit.
>>46432156
But what if it's the only one that understand and care for me? Is "swabbing its hole" really all that wrong?
>>46431314
>All that power, technology, and knowledge, and they give themselves over to pleasure rather than virtue.
I want Plato to remove himself from premises
>>46426691
The hell is the culture?
>>46431256
>>46432612
Some of the best Scifi you'll ever read.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture
>>46431290
Draigo may be insufferable, but I'll grudgingly admit that he actually has the credentials to justify at least a degree of it.
>>46431438
>>46431518
Wait, it's a TA derivate?
>>46431434
What are Space Marine Scouts?
>>46430843
Could the doctor fix the golden throne? Would he?
>>46433284
Statistics.
>>46432139
>But how many drydocks could the UNSC build with the same amount of >>46431656 equivalent material?
Would it matter? What good are all those drydocks when your tech is outclassed, as we saw from the series itself, the USNCs space tech is horrifically lagging behind even the covenant, thinking even enmasse they could go toe to toe with imperial navy ships is just silly.
Also the amount of different weapons that the Imperium has access to give it a great advantage, from the gas weapons that turn you into flammable particles then explodes everything, man portable plasma canons, Plasma guns, bolters, melta weapons, imagine a spread of melta torpedoes and what one hit would do to a typical USNC ship. The tech levels are just too different to do an accurate comparison, it would be like comparing the USNC to the SGC they should not be compared against one another they are on too different of levels.
>>46431377
No, interest in doing things is what drives people. Science isn't done because of suffering but because people like to know stuff.
>>46432297
I have never heard any instances of a lasgun having an actual machine spirit beyond 'oh no it broke, I obviously didn't placate the machine spirit well enough!'.
