So, I've decided to buy & build a Baronial Court of three Imperial Knights (size of 3 so that it may serve as either a Household or Oathsworn formation).
What should I pick?
>crusader w/b-cannon
>paladin
>errant
Who should I choose as allies, and which of these two forces should be the "primary" to which the other serves as an allied detachment?
>space wolf anti-tarpit bloodclaw or gh pack +hq
>space wolf iron priest on bike with cyberwolves
A little about me:
>long-time lurker
>first-time player
>sudden influx of substantial capital has inspired me to take up this long-wanted hobby
>don't particularly enjoy winning or making other people lose, but enjoy the spectacle of neckbeard frustration
Nigga what you need is a Warden, or two. Personally, I would just spam gatling cannons.
Crusaders are 'okay' but you're dumping a lot of points into a 6hp super.
>>46395529
pick 3 crusader and magnetize, then figure for yourself what is the best given your meta
>>46395529
Whenever I run just three knights I tend to field a Warden with stormspear as my Baron (BS5 is huge here) and two paladins with icarus autocannons.
Never fucking ever take the gauntlet, it's a trap.
Crusaders are also nice, but I prefer to have the terrible D to scare off enemies and carve open hard targets where needed. Errants really only come into their own as solo knights in support of another army or dedicated flankers/tankbusters in larger knight armies.
That said, a Baronial Court is neither a Household nor and Oathsworn detatchment, it's its own formation (and, frankly, superior to either) and can thus be allied freely.
>>46395721
>Never fucking ever take the gauntlet, it's a trap.
Please explain yourself
>>46395814
The big thing for Knights in melee is their Initiative of 4, which allows them to strike before the vast majority of other superheavies and gagantuans and, thanks to the D on the Reaper chainsword, probably annihilate them before the enemy gets to swing.
The Gauntlet trades in I4 for I1 at no relevant damage increase. That can cost you your entire knight, which goes from incredible dangerous melee combatant to probably dead before it can even swing if faced with any halfway-competent big stuff. In a way, the Reaper is your insurance against any nasty shit coming your way and will probably scare away anything but the hardest or most determined SHs/GCs.
The importance of I4 here can really not be overstated. The piddly shooting attack you gain is notoriously poor and unreliable, especially with its AP- it will not impress anyone.
Yes, it can be funny to pop open a Landraider like a beer can, pour out the marines inside and then drop the LR on their head, but the resulting damage is abysmal even with the heaviest tanks (S7 AP- *at best*).
The only way to make the gauntlet work is on the Gallant, which comes with the Reaper also built in, so it can pick and choose according to the current foe. Transport without melee capabilities or something actually incapable of hurting you in melee? Sure, use the fist. For everything else use the chainsword.
>>46396152
Ok thanks.
>>46395721
>>46396152
Excellent advice. I think I've settled on a Paladin (Baron) with a pair of battlecanon-armed Crusaders, all three with Icarus, for a total of far too many points (1335).
>actually 1350 because baron paladin gets mark of the omnissiah and/or might give someone a melta
Okay, that handles the Baronial Court, but we've still got another question unanswered:
>who to ally with?
Looking at 1500, 1750 & 2,000 point games, obviously, so we're looking at allies for 150, 400 & 650 points (respectively).
Hmmm, this feels like it'll be rather competitive; do you think, with plenty of skill, I'll be able to win some serious tournaments with this growing list?
>>46396619
Upgrading the baron's carapace weapon to the supernasty missiles costs only 5 more than the ac, so I'm probably gonna do that unless I need to go full SKYRAPER due to planes and FMC.... Which reminds me: I guess the allies chosen will have to deal with air.
Would it then be prudent to go with something like this:
>skyfang or skywolf?
Run it as an interceptor (skyfang?) or troop carrier (skywolf?) carrying an Iron Priest and a bunch of servitors to quickly repair the Knights as needed (otherwise staying airborne repairing the plane as it gets shot at lol).
How expensive is this?
>^tl;dr: 150 points for allied detachment with repair/aa/anti-tarball capabilities wut do?
>>46396619
With knights? No, probably not, unless your opponent is a fool or you manage to pull major shenanigans. Knights don't lend themselves to serious tournies, I'm affraid.
Allies at a mere 150 is tough; generally I'd recommend Scitarii, i.e. two units of vanguard, but I can't really speak for that at 1.5k, since I just run 4 knights there (2 paladins, an warden and an errant).
>>46396771
By the time you deploy the Ironpriest rom an airborne transport your knight is dead meat, and at that point the now hovering flyer will soon be the same. If you must have Fix-it Felix, you'll need to have him on-site the moment shit goes down. Despite their high stats, defense and everything, a wounded knight is living on borrowed time, as it's something your foe will be gunning for with every piece of anti-tank he has.
Okay, so here's the list:
1350 BARONIAL COURT
>Paladin (baron) +krak & mark of omni
>Crusader (battlecanon) +melta
>Crusader (battlecanon)
150(&+) ALLIED DETACHMENT
>biker Iron Wolf (hq) +4 cyberwolves
>Grey Hunter pack (size adjustable for 1500, 1750 & 2000 pt games)
...or thereabouts; let me know if my math's wrong or where to adjust it, or critique. Have you seen anyone run this list before?
And, I guess, for 2,000 point games, I'd just change out the Iron Wolf bike & cyberwolves for a retinue of servitors and throw them all aboard that wolfy transport gunship the Space Wolves have.
>>46397002
Skitarii make sense, thematically, but how about a super-cheap Penal Legion of peasants from the Knightworld? Can a 150-point IG allied detachment serve to cover at least two IK weaknesses?
>>46397146
>>46397146
Of course, I'm forgetting about the time it takes to deploy; alright: Iron Priest on a BIKE it is! (I've heard there are mathhammer advantages to the bike over the thunderwolf, especially if the cyberwolves get peeled away and the IP needs to boost 24" to the next IK).
But, I won't need a mechanic on-site if I can just deal with two or more IK shortcomings:
>anti-tarball
>anti-air
If the Baronial Court companions each have autocanon and are using overwatch, does this essenially handle about 98% of all flyers this list would encounter?
If not, would a flyer of my own or an anti-aircraft unit be advisable?
And, finally, with TWO of those sweet vindicator whatever squadraping multibarrel machinecanons on the Crusaders, do I really have to worry about enemy infantry at all? Like, do I give a fuck about enemy mobs then? Do I *need* my own INFANTRY to protect my giant robots from enemy troops?
>>46397406
Ironwolf without servitors sucks balls at repairing; a MSU grey Hunter pack will just get clobbered right away.
I'd recommend the same meltas on both Crusaders, it makes getting to grips with the models' capabilities easier and the melta might make some enemies twice about moving into range with a vehicle.
>>46397588
I <3 Melta, but the Battlecannons are far more powerful, no? This is why I was originally keeping the Heavy Stubbers: with the main weaponry already being great against armor, I wanted something to deal with hordes of infantry.
I would like to keep things far away, however....
>iron wolf of questionable value without servitors
Alright, then: what about a Drop Pod containing the following in reserve?
>1 Iron Wolf
>4 Servitors
>5 Grey Hunters
Just drop it next to whatever IK needs the most help (if it hasn't already been dropped on an objective or strongpoint).
>>46397464
>penal legion
Don't exist anymore.
>>46397550
>anti-air
Overwatch does jack against flyers and the icaroi are more of a deterrent than any serious anti-air gun. It'll make most flyers hesitate, but the flying brick types couldn't give any less of a shit about them.
But supplement them with a aegis line with a quad gun and suddenly it starts looking a lot better.
Mind you, anyone seriously spamming flyers (croissant fleet, Elysians) will still annihilate you, but against one or two aircraft it may work.
>anti-tarpit
Between battlecannon and avengers you can remove squads of MEQs *out of cover* easily.
Trouble are big hordes skulking in terrain. Can't get near them, or they'll tie you up forever (stomp and A3 only go so far), can't really shoot them in a timely manner.
Bigger trouble are Deep Strikers lugging around anti-tank. Those will hurt a lot and there's not really that much you can do about them except maneuver smartly. Even if they don't kill you, they *need* to be dealt eith, otherwise they'll also tie you up for some time.
Having some infantry cover your rear and claim backfield objectives is pretty advisable overall.
>>46397844
Ah, I was refering to the small stubber-replacing melta. Apologies, I should have been clearer. With the battlecannon you still retain a stubber and can melta transports that get to ballsy to shell the stuff inside with your big guns.
The drop pod idea seems pretty decent, but I'm not sure Iron Wolves with servitors can actually join up with the Grey Hunters. Sorry, not that versed with SW. If it works it'd be a nice combo; flexible, too.
>>46397932
>overwatch doesn't help anti-aircraft
Dang. Alright, and then I agree that deepstrikers are troubling, as I've read a lot about meltascouts etc.
One of the Rune Priest upgrades is this item you place anywhere on the board which prevents anyone from deepstriking or flanking or popping out of nowhere anywhere within 18" of it, so I suppose if I can afford a Rune Priest, I'll do that.
>>46398038
Makes sense; giving BOTH of the shooty Knights meltas will funnel anything that wants to get close towards the Baron instead.
Glad you agree with the droppodding WP+GH.
Let's please keep this thread going in order to discuss stories of people fielding these things at tournies & the LGS.
