Technicolor Edition
>Rules databases
https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
https://kat.cr/warhammer-40k-pdf-library-t9575373.html
>FAQs
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata
>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef_V7.pdf
>Forgeworld Book index
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index
R.I.P. Forge World's Chaos Dreadnoughts
I've got roughly 200 points to spend to add some long ranged support to my CSM army, using only units from the base codex in a CAD.
wat do
>>46390946
What?
>>46390952
>only units from the base codex
Isn't playing CSM a punishment already hard enough?
>>46390957
They're gone!
They're all gone!
And so, many other stuff.
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-IT/Warhammer-40-000?N=102764+4294965218&Nu=product.repositoryId&qty=8&sorting=rec&view=table&categoryId=cat2140034&_requestid=7880353
>>46390946
But... Why?
>>46390973
Best case scenarios, GW realize that the Helbrute is a nice alternative but will never replace the original Dread, so they give us a plastic kit.
Worst case scenario, even FW give up on 40k CSM, and will do only 30k from now on.
Tomorrow I have my first 3000pt game against War Convo with my Ravenwing. (both first 3000 and against the actual War Convo)
How no fun allowed should it be?
Anyone familiar with the army that could tell me important units (especially those with ignore cover) to kill first?
His knight is an Atropis(?) and will be the first Lord of War I have to face.
Also he has a full unit of Kastelan Robots and two of them were pretty annoying to deal with at 1000pts.
He is letting me pick the mission but we usually play maelstrom and I think he has a lot ObSec than I do (seeing as I have none).
What would be the best Maelstrom for us to run?
Maybe I ask him to play an Eternal, what then?
Probably too late in the thread to look for critique on my list but probably next one. Sorry in advance when I repost this.
question: for an 1000 point game, how many marketlight sources should I have?
Right now I have 5 ML drones, and a squad of 10 pathfinders, but I'm wondering if I should exchange some of my pathfinder MLs with rail rifles.
>>46391008
>first 3000 and against the actual War Convo
>the first Lord of War I have to face
>How no fun allowed should it be?
Since you have been playing in some sort of fluffy safe space meta this will define No Fun Allowed.
>He is letting me pick the mission
Classic card shark move. You can pick any mission anywhere. War Convo wins missions, it is what it does. Perhaps not to the extent of a Battle Company and drop pod spam but still its a lot to deal with.
>Probably too late in the thread
When you copy and paste from the last thread you could've left this part out. Either way might as well hit us with that list. 3000pt lists can get huge so format accordingly.
>>46391065
Rail rifles are a waste. You'll never get back the points you invested in them without markerlight support, which you're already cutting down on by buying them in the first place.
>>46390970
Pls be an elaborate april fools joke by forgeworld
>7th ed. Codices are all an april fools joke
>Tomorrow GW brings back Tyranids 4th ed., chaos 3.5 ed., Dark Eldar 5th ed., Eldar 4th ed., Tau 4th (or whatever iterwtion wasn't so broken)
>mfw this many codices need fixing
With the disappearance of some of FW stock, do you think this is the future of this hobby?
I know this has been a sales purpose for companies like FF X-wing from the start. You make a batch, sell out, and then create a new batch. As of minimizing loss of merchandise just standing on the shelf.
GW´s interpretation to this has been all the "limited ed" things they release outside their models.
But just think for a minute, what if this is the future of GW. Every model they release is limited time only. When its out, its out.
How would you react to this?
>bought a IW Dread from FW way back in the day, with a loyalist siege drill and plasma cannon cos it's IW as fuck.
>finally got thrown a bone with Destroyer of Cities in IA13
>handwave the plasma cannon having long lost the focused gravity bottle for stable projection and now operates like a plasma flamethrower, since the flamestorm cannon is AP3
>it's the most fun I've had with the model in years
RIP
>>46391102
and im assuming ion rifles are the same? I was thinking the RR might be helpful because i dont have all that many heavy weapons, right now just 3x crisis suits (plasma, shield/flamer, burst cannon/and dual fusion blaster) and a broadside suit with a rail cannon. Plus a bunch of fire warriors but I don't think they'll be punching through much heavy armor
>>46391143
Meh, 3d printing will fix it
>>46391143
Model railroads are another hobby of mine so the phenomenon isn't new to me; this is how 90% of new locomotive models go.
>>46390963why yes it is Kari. I also run unmarked CSM. narrative: forged
>>46391173
>meh, casting your own miniatures will fix it
>meh, knowing the right China man will fix it
>meh I know how to convert
>meh, I'm a pleb that doesn't know shit like this has existed for decades.
Seriously, one machine wont change the industry. I casted my own miniatures about 10+ years back. I'm talking on how the industry as a whole would react, the major population.
>>46391210
>one machine wont change the industry
You're an idiot
>>46391210
>one machine won't change an industry
>>46391211
>>46391265
Yes, because we know by facts that your average 13-20 year old participating in this hobby wont have one at home. The same way we know by fact that your average wargamer today wont cast his own models at home.
You both are idiots if you truly believes this (failing that, fat neckbeards living in moms basement, and actually believing that just because YOU are all about getting a 3d printer, everyone will).
nice cherry picking btw.
>>46391314
What do you mean people aren't printing their own magic cards? But we have all these laser printers and shit.
>>46391314
You've completely missed the point. What you're saying is basically the equivalent of "Yeah, that whole computer thing is just a fad, it'll blow over soon." Even if people don't have them at home (if they're into wargaming, they will, it's a simple economic choice, buy this $150 robot figure or buy a $500 printer and make 30 $150 robots), GW or other companies can use them to reproduce literally any model that has ever been a part of 40k and sell them. No ordering new casts, no archiving old casts, no sending them to a foundry, just opening a 3d mesh file and pressing print. It MASSIVELY reduces their contracting and logistic expense.
Given a few years, 3D printing will probably completely change industry (not THE industry, industry as a whole). It's like what Ford did with the assembly line. They just have to make one that can print different kinds of materials.
Also, there is literally no cherry picking in either of those posts.
Playing first game tonight! Any tips or things to prepare for?
>>46391143
FFS.
FW models go OOP all over the time. Either they just aren't selling or someone damages the master.
>>46391314
the casting process is WAY more complex than the 3d printing process. If it's a choice between buying $600 worth of figures or a printer around that cost, the smart choice is to buy the printer and just make whatever the fuck you want.
Obviously they're not that cheap yet but it's new tech, given time the price will come down.
>>46391441
that's another thing, if you 3d print, there's literally no such thing as "damaging the master"
>>46391441
Or - a plastic version replaces them.
Either way, this is not some strange occurrence.
>>46391420
Remember to come back here with some retarted hyperbole story about your game. Crowd favorites are:
>Cheating whining tau waacfag
>tabling orks/nids/csm before deployment
>opponent brought "friendly" list and the game was awful
>ork player messed up basically every fucking rule
>anecdotal evidence of fringe tactic working
Just remember tohave fun________
>>46391447
You can tell you've never done it. Printing something that you only have a physical model of is extremely difficult. There is a shit load of prep work to make a 3d scan ready for printing.
>>46391459
Asking that you started with a digital master which most FW models do not.
>>46391485
Turns out I already won!
Fired blind 4 hours before games where even drawn. Won all
>>46391503
>There is a shit load of prep work to make a 3d scan ready for printing.
Actually I have. And I'm not talking about current capabilities, obviously modern 3d printers can't print warhammer figs because it's new technology. Give it 5 years or so. Also, who says you only have a physical model? You know there are repositories for models and shit online right? They'll be even more ubiquitous by the time they can reliably print at 28mm scale. No scanning necessary.
>Asking that you started with a digital master which most FW models do not.
and if they did, they would reduce casting expenses and never be forced to have something go OOP, unless they just didnt want to make it anymore. But if that's the case, someone else will.
>>46391447
I love how these faggots that have never operated a 3D printer or any kind of Cnc machine tool or the software to run them tell us how easy it'll be. You'll just press a button and a free army will fall out of the machine just as soon as you afford the very cheapest one on the market, right?
>>46391503
the thing is it only has to be scanned once
>>46391555
Listen you moron, I have operated them, I have a makerbot mini. See >>46391542
I'm not talking about current models. Back in the 90s nobody knew how to use a computer, now every fucking 4 year old walking down the street has a laptop.
What Tau HQ best fits a rogue drone collective army?
Mechanicly mainly as I'll be converting a model to serve as mobile command hub.
>>46391065
It sounds like you have a decent source of markerlights, if you're really worried you could add some more drones
>>46391420
Just have fun and be a good sport. Remember to go for objectives and don't get hung up on whether or not your dice rolls went how you wanted. Come back and tell us how it went
>>46391008
This sounds awful, a 3000 point War Convo? That guy is probably closer to a 4000 point list.
GW is winning. We are mow playing Epic with 28mm.
>>46391634
The Ethereal sounds like a good bet. Handwave Invocation of the Elements as the command drone giving hot-fixes to surrounding units that increase their combat effectiveness.
>>46391588
You realise there is no equivalent to Moore's law for 3D printing?
>>46391314
Ignore them. We are 10+ years away from the proper medium and detail capability.
>>46391679
Ugh, fucking shitty layout even fucks with notifications.
Ethereal might work, also considering a suit commander with iridium armour, puretide engram and every drone possible.
>>46391069
>>46391673
I think he may also be taking an Ad Mech formation with it but I am too unfamiliar with his the faction to know. Will see tomorrow.
Posted my 2500 list not too long ago but I added a Silence Squadron onto it. May dropw a grav bike squad to take the last Black Knight for each unit (so 6 models a unit)
3000/3000
RW Strike Force:
Sammael - 200
Interrogator Chaplain - 165
>Auspex, Mace of Redemption, Bike
Ravenwing Command Squad - 250
>5x Black Knights, Grenade Launcher, Apothecary, RW Banner
2x Ravenwing Darkshroud - 80 ea
>Heavy Bolter
2x 5 Ravenwing Black Knights - 200 ea
>Grenade Launcher
3x 3 Ravenwing Bike Squad - 120 ea
>2 Grav Gun, Combi Grav, Meltabomb
2x RW Attack Squadron - 140 ea
>Ravenwing Attack Bike w/ Multi-Melta
>Ravenwing Landspeeder w/ Multi-Melta and Typhoon Missile Launcher
RW Support Squadron - 245
>3x Ravenwing Landspeeders w/ Double Heavy Bolters
>Darkshroud w/ Heavy Bolter
RW Silence Squadron - 500
>Dark Talon
>2x Nephelim Jet Fighter
WS Lib. Conclave - 330
>3x Level 2 Librarians on bikes
I fucking love Vulkan, but I have a hard time fitting him into my lists. He is a 190 point Heavy Flamer that dies to a shit load of Crisis Plasma and Fusion, no matter how many meat shields I give him. I suppose I need to work on using Assault Transports to deliver him, but fitting a 200-250 point box just to deliver 1 squad seems so all-in.
>>46390896
It's sold out in Freedomland.
>L-land of the Free
>>46390952
long range support is rather vague, what do you need, all useful options best first:
for general tasks, but fragile and getting the models is problematic, either ebay, forgeworld kit or kitbash as the havoc kit has only 1 inside
115pts =>5havocs with 4 autocannons
Depending on your list it may be good, but I found getting all 3 to shoot (line of sight)can be a hassle, also AV11 sides make it fragile
Predator TL-Las + Las Sponsons =>140pts
(cheaper 1 additional shot, but not as good against say a riptide)
Predator autocannon+Las Sponsons =>115pts
Only good if your heavy support slot is stuffed because of the crazed table
Helbrute Las-ML => 135pts
I don't like them personally because you often need a lascannon twice in a row, also has leadership issues
Obliterator with Mark of Nurgle => 76pts
It might work, however being a flyer has issues for long range as it arrives late, keep in mind you do not have to fly but then it is vulnerable, also anti-flyer but BS3
Heldrake with Hades autocannon =>170
Forget the others, they are too expensive, to fragile or do not deliver useful dakka against vehicles like a rhino, which you should desire
>>46391163
Weird crisis weapon layout, remember they have to shoot both weapons at 1 target and cannot fire 3, even if they can take it.
Firewarriors can take a DS8 turret for either Missle or Smart Missle system, the former gives some anti-armor as well
Broadside can also take plasma, which is helpful against armor and a seeker missle,
>>46391420
Read the basic rules again, don't be afraid to ask anything. remember to ask your opponent afterwards, what you did wrong
>>46390996
It seems like FW and GW have their "cleanup days" rather than a kit here or there its
90+ GW-AoS products
40+FW-40k
8FW-AoS
, is GW-40k next?
>>46391855
You can fire one weapon and a second twin linked weapon. Might be what he meant.
>>46391739
You put him with a squad of TH/SS guys, otherwise he's just there to be a distraction
>>46392011
>, is GW-40k next?
They already cut a good amount of kits in the last weeks.
>>46391008
Good news, there is no ignores cover!
Bad news, most stuff reduces your cover by one or two, keeping your possible 2+ rerollable cover a bit more fair.
Robot guns can shoot alot of targets, and reduce cover by one. the rangers and vanguard will drop your cover by one. And if he took dunecrawlers, their guns can reduce by one.
even the striders can have a rifle that reduces your cover. If I was playing against my war convo, even if other thingss were more damaging, i think i would take out the infiltrators, rust stalkers, and vanguard/rangers first. they die easy, and reduce the number of units he gets for his bonus. Since at least 1000 points are going to be tied up in those robots.
>>46391723
"Hey guize I don't feel like 2+ rerollable cover and a white scars librarius conclave for even more bullshit is enough of an advantage. Please halp me list tailor too!"
worst kind of scum.
>>46392445
Dude! It's space marine list. They get free pass. Why don't you go and make some strawman arguments about taudar like rest of the thread.
>>46392386
Thanks for the great advice.
>>46392445
I am playing against War Convo and the only "list tailoring" I am doing is trying to decide if I want three more black knights or a unit of grav bikes you humongous faggot.
Also as you see with the post right above you they will be reducing my 2+ save that must have fucked you up your tight asshole recently.
Cry more bitchboy.
>>46392445
I know, right? How dare he try to make a strong army to try and win at the game.
>>46390952
Get a Sicaran and a better group.
>>46392520
im the same person in both posts, i forgot to add that after i saw your tremendously gay list combining every bullshit bonus you could cram up your ass.
>>46392539
this is why faggots like you ruin games. strong armies dont need to fucking list tailor. I hope in the future you fight nothing but space wolves with thunder calv, white scars librarius conclave, blood angels apothecaries, and wulfen making them charge you turn one.
>>46392445
Ravenwing is definetly a pain to deal with but at 3000pts I would rather face them than any Battlecompany and pod spam. Also he said he was looking for critique on his list not a specific tailor.
You sound like a butt mad autistic hobbyist that only plays fluff listswhich is fine at all but don't get upset when other people you will never meet in your life are enjoying a different aspect of the hobby
>>46392655
>strong armies
Ravenwing isn't even top 5, you cunt.
War Convo is top 2.
You probably really suck on the tabletop.
for a 2000 pts match with a friend of mine that runs IG
HQ
Big Mek (Mega Armour, KFF, Gitfinda, TW shoota)
Warboss (Mega, bosspole, Dead Shiny Shoota, powerklaw)
Elite
2x 12 Tankbustas w/ Rokkit Trukk (extra armour)
3 Mega Nobz w/ Battlewagon (Kannon, Grabbing klaw, R.Ram)
Troops
2x 20 Shoota boyz + 2 Big Shoota boyz
Fast Attack
Fighta-Bomma (6 missiles)
2x Grot Mega Tanks (2 TW Rokkits, 3 Big Shootas, Pintle-mounted Shoota)
Heavy Support
15 Lootas
5x lobba 5 extra grotz, 5 ammo runts
I still have 31 pts left over, any suggestions?
>>46391143
Would be less of a bummer if recasters weren't also disappearing
>>46392774
Cut out the Big shoota boys and see if you can't throw in an extra trukk or something.
Convince me on why I should either play Necrons or Skitarii.
Bonus points for legitimate posts and points.
I'm not gonna even pretend like I'm good, so I'm just gonna ask the question and accept the shame:
Why are biovores good? I don't have any, but I'm looking at the stats and weapons, and I just don't really see it. My friends play necrons and tau, so are they still good?
>>46392774
what are the stats for Fighta-bomba?
>>46393008
BS 2
Front 11, 10s
HP3
Turret-mounted TL Big Shoota, 4x TLBig Shoota
Special Manoeuvres
Supersonic
worst part about FW mass squatting of models - if they're squatting a bunch of Ork shit, we can be sure they aren't updating IA8 anytime soon, or anytime EVER for that matter.
>>46392608
Why would anyone be interested in a "fair" list at 3k points, when anything above 2k clearly encourages game breaking?
what do you guys think about this for a 1000 point army? Sorry if I did something obviously stupid, but I'm new to the game.
+++ Tau 1000 (997pts) +++
1x Ethereal [2x Equalizers, Blacksun Filter, Hover Drone, Recon Armour]
3x XV8 Crisis Battlesuits, 3x Gun drones 3x Marker drones
····Shas'ui [Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Shield Generator]
····Shas'ui [Drone Controller, 2x Fusion Blaster]
····Shas'vre [Burst Cannon, Flamer, Target Lock]
11x Fire Warrior with Pulse Rifle, 1x Shas'ui with Markerlight and Target lock, 1x Marker drone, 1x Gun drone
9x Fire Warriors with Pulse rifle, 1x Shas'ui with Markerlight and Target lock, 1x Marker drone, 1x Gun drone, DS8 Turret SMS
7x Pathfinders, 1x Shas'ui, 2x Rail Rifle, Grav drone, Recon drone, Pulse drone, EMP grenade
1x Broadside Suit w/ 2x missile drones, TL Rail, TL Plasma, Seeker Missile, Shield Generator
>>46393203
Seems good. Ideally you'll probably want to divide up that crisis team so they're not forced to be firing at the same target with wildly different weapons.
>>46392925
Background Questions
When seeing kids play in your garden, do you wantt o take a stick beat them up yelling at them to respect the ancients?
Do you think preserving the history of the universe is important, including some of the better artefacts?
Does having an army of metal marching towards the enemy sound appealing?
Do you hate magic and believe in SCIENCE?
Did you watch Battlestar Galactica and cheered for the Cylons?
Do you think observing social protocol is important?
Have you ever felt the desire to be a mad evil scientist, complete with your legion of demented followers, maniacal laugther included?
Gamewise:
Do you hate having a box of models and you cannot decide witch special weapon to put onto the models?
Do you like to keep things simple, so you do not have to remember thousands of profiles and rules?
Do you hate to see your models die on the tabletop?
Do you like a good selection of melee and shooting?
Do you like to have an army that has everything (flyers, transports, melee infantery, shooting infantery)
Models:
Do you like to own similar looking models?
Do you like having a big spider with tiny little baby spiders inside?
Do you like an army that is rather easy to paint?
Do you like ancient egytian aesthetic?
Do you dread painting faces?
If you answered YES to most of these questions, join the legions, reclaim what is yours and get the youn'uns off your lawn so you can sleep in peace once more!
If you are enthusiastic now, choose NECRONS
>>46393232
I can split them up into 3 elite slots since I don't have anything else to take those slots, good idea. Thanks
>>46393250
That was an amazing post, 10/10 would kek again.
Now to see who posts for the Skitarii.
Alright, I need some help figuring this one out /tg/
I just finished off my Warhound titan and getting ready to put it into play sometime this month. What I'm slightly confused on however are exactly how Voidshields work.
let's say we have a...I dunno Scatter laser shooting at the Warhound with it's STR6 shots. For those familiar with the rules let's assume all 4 Scatter Laser shots hit and roll 6s to glance.
My question - Would those 4 shots take down each Void Shield or would they count as a single shooting phase taking down only 1 at max?
>>46393232
>>46393267
Follow up question: Since the shas vre doesn't need target lock anymore, which replacement should I go with to compliment burst cannon/flamer? I'm thinking one of the signature systems could be good
>tfw one of the cheap ebay auctions you were watching for days with 0 bids jumped up to twice its value over a few hours on the last day
I just wanted some more cheap tacs
What does a typical buffmander look like? I see Monster/Tank hunter show up alot but I cannot find where to get these special rules from.
>>46393385
puretide brain-on-a-chip
typicallyalso has iridium suite so does not when some melta points in his direction
>>46393362
Same thing happened to me with some Valkyries. Everyone just wants a good deal
>>46393318
would replace burst cannon with airbust frag launcher to complement the flamer
>>46393509
Do the crisis suits actually come with an AFL? I know you can have them but I didn't see the actual gun on the sprue
>>46392696
"Top 2".
Not the same guy but this is a troll right? Eldar, necrons, space marines, tau, hell even demons all easily place above war convocation in tournaments as far as top tier lists. War convocation is the same cookie cutter limited list every time, and it's tricks when new threw players off, but they are old hat by now. At the risk of sounding cliche, you need to get gud, son.
>>46393556
Both the old and new crisis sprue: NOPE
The old commander had had one, so does the new commander kit. Typical GW policy the good stuff is only found in the expensive kits
>>46393600
as an admech palyer, this is my experience as well. people balk at War Congregation initially but it's a severely limited build with easily wiped troop choices.
Flesh Tearers can be thrown in for a slightly harder punch but changes little as the list otherwise still tends to suffer the same weaknesses.
>>46393724
Alright, well I guess I can just call the burst cannon an AFL, no one in my group will care about wizzywig as long as they know about it beforehand.
Still thats kinda lame. I did mean to buy a commander soon though, ethereal seems kinda meh
I'm adding some non-30k forgeworld to my local scene, how does this look for a Renegades and Heretics army? I'm planning on allying it to Daemons, namely a D-thirster and a pile of distraction bloodletters, once i get my 'letters painted up.
65-Command Squad-Bloody Handed Reaver
110-4xEnforcers, one combat drugs
75-Marauders-Stalkers, two meltas
75-Marauders-Stalkers, two meltas
75-Marauders-Stalkers, two meltas
150-Mutant Rabble-50 mutants
65-Renegade Grenadiers-Plasmagun, 4 hotshots
65-Renegade Grenadiers-Plasmagun, 4 hotshots
65-Renegade Grenadiers-Plasmagun, 4 hotshots
65-Renegade Grenadiers-Plasmagun, 4 hotshots
145-Renegade Valkyrie-Lascannon, Rocket pods, Militia Training
955
Basic plan is footslogging the grenadiers behind the rabble and use free hotshots to remove MEQ, while the stalkers go tank hunting or tie up backfield dev squads and the like, and the command squad stays safe in the valkyrie. The drugs enforcer goes with the rabble to give Rage, while the other three stop any retreat shenanigans with the marauders. I could split the muties in half and add another drug enforcer, but i want to feel the satisfaction of being able to roll 200+ dice at someone's thunderwoofs if they get too ambitious turn one.
>>46393304
>>46393304
>>46393304
I could still really use help with this question guys, if anyone wouldn't mind.
>>46393842
One scatter laser can only knock out a single void shield, even if all four hits glance. If you shoot with a unit with two scatter lasers, then the first laser knocks one shield down and the second laser has a chance to knock down the second. This is what our group worked out, as the rules are never truly clear in regards to shields
>>46393842
Void Shield are essentially extra Hull Points at AV12.
So if he got lucky and rolled quadruple 6s and you have 3 Void Shields, then all Void Shields would go down and the extra 6 would be ignored since I think Warhound's front is AV14.
>>46393746
I would do that only if you do not have burst-cannons in your list to avoid confusion.
As for the commander kit....most people use the Iridium battlesuit. Which to further confusion, does not come in the commander but the XV8 Crisis team box.
>>46393913
Nah man.
>Each hit scored against a W arhound Titan
will instead hit a void shield (whilst they remain). A glancing or penetrating hit (or any hit from a Destroyer weapon) scored against a
void shield causes it to collapse. After all the void shields have collapsed, further hits
strike the Titan instead. At the end of each of the Titan's turns, roll one dice for each
collapsed void shield: each roll of 5+ instantly restores one collapsed shield.
On the plus side however is that you can potentially regen them all in one turn.
>>46393972
Yeah I don't have any other burst cannons except for that one, so it'll be fine
>>46393783
Where are your tanks?
>>46393913
it really isn't clear. been trying to find definitive answer to this
>>46393920
see, it would be easier to agree to this if the Voidshields didn't seem to act as separate entities rather than straight up additional HP that can be restored. Were it worded this way it'd be great and clearer
Also in either case voidshields suck, just give me a 4+ invul on one facing of my choice
Warhound is twice as expensive but also twice as vulnerable as two knights it appears. ah well, I got it largely because I love the model itself anyway.
>>46394007
In glorious Armoured Company, sitting in the awkward state of outdated rules. Also, they're too pretty to deface with heresy, and my commissar tanks would blam me. Tanks add very little to what i'm planning anyway except as maybe some long-ranged fire support, which goes against the idea of a frothing insane meat-tide supported by guerillas and grenadiers. The Daemons haven't been finalised yet, but it features a D-thirster, bare bloodletters and all the rest of my points on hounds. With my list, i avoid having to add the militia tax on everything from Reaver, while getting free hotshots and bs4 veteranswho the fuck thought ws4 bs3 a1 vets was a good idea i swear to god
Hey /tg/, I'm starting a space marine army after a long break and so I bought the new starter set and added some bits to some old models I was given, my friend was quitting his CSMs so gave them to me to convert.
I don't want to buy anything right now I just want to know how good the lists I could write are and maybe plan around that, I don't want to change the wargear on anything because I already marked each of the models to be what I listed them as other than a few minor things like melta bombs.
HQs
-Chapter Master combi-melta, lightning claw and artificer armour.
-Librarian with terminator armour, combi-melta and force staff.
-librarian with plasma pistol and force axe.
Troops
-10 man tactical squad with grav gun which contains a veteran sargent with a power-sword and grav pistol (Gotta try out the new gun type!).
-10 man tactical squad which contains a veteran sargent with powerfist and bolter.
Elites
-Command squad with which contains an apothecary, two marines with melta guns and two marines with bolter and storm shield.
-Venerable dreadnought with assult cannon and storm bolter.
Heavy support
-One plain vindicator.
Convince me on why I should play Skitarii.
>>46394286
Because you like robot men, radiation guns and footslogging infantry?
>>46394275
You can only have two HQ choices. Apart from that, its a not-awful list. Add some extra weapons to the Vindicator to prevent weapon destroyed, dump some wargear/upgrades and remember, boys before toys. You could run it no problem, just don't expect to win tournaments
what 3rd wargear/signature system with flamer/AFP crisis shas'vre?
right now he's got a failsafe detonator
>>46394275
Drop some bling and add a third Libby as part of a Librarius Conclave. Under current Psyker rules, you either have to go big or go home.
>>46394358
>>46394275
Also, holy shit, buy those second Mastery levels. As far as you should be concernd, Libby's are base 80 points and ML2.
>>46394353
Early warning override is always nice to have
>>46394353
None, unless he's a bodyguard. Only bodyguards and commanders have unlimited slots for Signature Systems.
>>46394286
Robuts!
>>46394371
90 points, but unless you're on a mega-tight budget, you're completely right
>>46394393
I mean if there was something worth replacing the FSD with. >>46394384 said EWO
>>46394286
Don't, go Mechanicus. They got bigger, cooler robots.
>>46394286
You are already an ugly nerd jerking it on front of computer. Might as well go the full mile.
>>46394275
>add third Libby and ML 2 for everybody
>footslogging Melta guns will never get to slag anything that your opponent didn't mind losing
>likewise, that ~200 point Chapter master will never get to fight anything worthwhile unless it's something capable of murdering him
>heavy Weapons would be more useful than Sarge upgrades
>give the Vindicator some extra weapon
So now that Nids have the genestealer cult, are we basically boned until 2020 for a new codex?
Also, vs. necrons, should I get biovores or an exocrine?
>>46394436
If the daemonkin is anything, have fun waiting.
>>46394436
No, but we're probably boned for 2016
Unless your opponent avoids warrior blobs, biovores. Even if he does avoid them, biovores.
>>46394420
If it is anti-horde, consider a Repulsor Impact Field. Otherwise, get a vector-thruster to get out of combat. Actually get both in the unit and you will be able to abuse the Repulsor Field more than once. Failsafe is a one-trick-pony for units you don't expect to survive.
>>46394275
>two marines with bolter and storm shield.
... Wat.
>(Gotta try out the new gun type!).
You were right, but you should have put the combi-grav on him. You should still have the bits so next time you do get a box you can kit a sane sergeant out.
Veteran sergeants with power swords and pistols cost 25 points more than they should (combi weapon, melta bomb, not a vet)
>>46394208
Forget armoured company. Use the codex now that you can get command tanks and all tank formations.
Hey folks, I was wondering if I could get some advice.
So I play Orks and I'm not entirely sure what to use to help out against my friend who plays Tau.
I used to run Battlewagons against him to help get my Boyz and Bustas up in his face since a standard Tau list has difficulties dealing with AV14 right?
But now that they have that fancy Optimized Stealth Cadre I'm not entirely sure how to counter or even defend against it.
I mean I'm glad that he is finally using his Stealth Suits, he had a lot of them because he thought they looked cool, but dang this is a hard nut for me to crack.
He runs two of the Formation with the Ghostkeels popping the Wagon and the Stealth Suits moving up with Gun Drones to shoot the occupants after they've gotten out.
I've tried using Mek Gunz and Bustas to knock out the Ghostkeels buffing but he then uses that Snap-shooting thing to make my Mek Gunz useless for that turn while the Bustas just get shot up.
And I already know what happens if I try to footslog my Boyz up the table and I don't have a massive amount of Bikez to try and tie him up with so any suggestions on how to fight this?
>>46394517
>no special ammo (beasthunter for ID, infernum for ignores cover, etc)
>no obsec tanksi think, i might be wrong
>no glorious commissar tanks to inspire insipid idiots
>no thunderers
>worse air support
>autocannon chimeras
>none of the fun FW stuff
>lacks almost all the fun, competitively useless upgrades
Nah, i'll run my Rogue Trader renegade blobs and wait for FW to take a break from muhreens
>>46394286
do you like the idea of having awesome medium range guns on expensive troops with flimsy armor and no transport?
or how about little to no real flexibility in the army and the only real competitive list will get you labeled a power gaming fagget while still not beating experienced players with straight up better lists? Do you like losing? Then Admech is for you.
>>46394620
>only use the war convo against other top tier lists
Boom. No longer do AdMech players have to fear being labeled WAAC assholes.
>>46394597
sorry, wait for a new codex or something
Or talk with your friend. OpStealthCadre is the good Tau stuff, far better than anything orks can get, so he should tone the list down....
>>46394597
Pic related.But, to be serious, I've got nothing. That's one of the nastiest formations in the game for dealing with vehicles, and he's got two of them.
>>46394600
Wrong on most of those points.
>>46394664
been done. average list vs average list they tend to do poorly. The only time is if it's vs other medium range builds.
>>46394597
Well the holophoton countermeasures are against single unit only per use so you can try to bait it out with MSU spam. Also the ghostkeel is "only" t5 w4 3+ and w/e cover it might have, 4+ in open field and 2+ in basically anywhere else. And optionally fnp too. You could try to just drown with gorillion shots. With t5 even humble shoota have ok-ish chance to wound it.
Also the drones are only 4+ models so scorchas can roast them if you can get nice position with it, maybe with buggies or burna bommer?
Smasha gun could one-shot it but that requires some serious luck to pull off.
>>46391186
>unmarked CSM.
The only other CSM besides me in my store does this, and I haven't the faintest clue why. He then complains about how my Slaanesh army stomps him every time. I try to explain that's because he keeps trying to assault my I5 Marines with his I4 Marines, but nooooooooooooo, apparently the Dice Gods just don't favor him.
Will I enjoy Nids?
Im gonna pick up a flyrant and the deathwatch box and I have some other small bits.
I know its not the best book but are they actually fun or am I gonna get frustrated each game because im getting ran over?
I just had an odd idea. What if any faction could take any formation, getting the relevant bonuses by taking equivalent units.
For example, you could take a battle company of Orks with 6 boys squads, 2 bikes or stormboys squads to fill in for assault marines, and 2 lootas or flash gitz to fill in for devastators. Then you get all the reroll bonuses along with free dedicated transports for anyone who can take them.
How much would this help weaker armies, and how much harder would it break strong ones.
>>46394701
>special ammo
where from? its not in codex or cadia, i just reread both
>obsec tanks
Where? im pretty sure there will be a formation, i just don't know it
>commissar tanks
nope
>thunderers
maybe, dont know
>no imperial navy support, avengers and thunderbolts
Only in CADs, not Cadia decurion
>autocannon chims
can regular dudes take them now? excellent
>fun fw stuff
can only be run in a CAD, not in formations.
Please enlighten me if im wrong on any points-you either replace tanks with FW stuff and lose obsec, or run a too-pricey decurion and get no fun stuff
>>46394715
Tend to do poorly is better than shitstomp mercilessly as far as casual games go. You can also look into folding in more cheese to try to balance it out. Maybe see if people will let you gain all the non-free wargear benefits of the WarConvo in exchange for reducing the requirements.
>>46394798
>Eldar takes six guardian squads, two scatbike units, two D-weapon platforms, an autarch, and a far seer
>gets a grand in free Wave Serpents
Hmm, anywhere cheaper to get marine style backpacks? I'm considering turning Irondrakes into Squats. Or heck, alternative ways to tweak them a little to look more like their armour is powered is also cool.
Incidentally, what could I do about bikers? There's not really a mounted GW kit with dwarf sized legs.
>>46394798
>Orks can take 2 'orkanauts and Deff dread for those sweet sweet heavy retribution bonuses. Throw in bully boyz to get some nobz in da 'naught.
>>46394835
well, by "poorly" I mean tabled
>>46394878
Wouldn't be D-weapon platforms, as those line up closer with Thundefire batteries. It would be probably be Dark Reapers.
That said, I see your point. Free transports means a lot more when they're more expensive like that.
>>46394597
I'd say to try some unorthodox tactics like outflanking warbuggies (or scouting I forget what rule they have) with rokkits or skorchas to burninate the fuckers.
Or you can fly Deffkoptas in with a similar load out but they can assault which can prevent them from powerfucking your transports, they also get access to a power klaw (buzzsaw) and a bomb (ranged attack that isn't a shooting attack so fuck snapfires)
Warbikers also work well since they can zip down field, shit dakka, then KRUMP those gits in melee.
A skyray launches a missile at a vehicle using markerlights from another unit, it can't draw a line of sight to the target.
Which armour value would the vehicle use to resist the missile?
>>46394833
You realise you just take your LRs from the formation and your much info squads from the CAD and then you get all your FW toys. Its not either or.
They aren't obsec (although the squads are) but they are bs4 and your opponent is rolling two dice to pen and discarding the higher.
>>46395023
Its still the one facing the skyray, since that's where the attack is coming from.
It doesn't loop around in midair and hit it in the back or anything.
>>46394940
>if AdMech doesn't get the WarConvo, they get tabled by all tier two armies
Yeah, naw. Skitarii and are fantastic as far as basic infantry go, and the rest of the army is solid outside a few stinkers, like the electropriests.
Sure, a lot of your firepower is limited to 18", but Scout and T1 moves reaches out 30'.
>>46395023
The direction the missile came from.
>>46394915
backpack:
try ebay, if you search long enough you will find people offering leftovers for cheap
Bikers:
-model some skirt around so you cannot see the legs. Would still look not that good IMHO.
-mantic has some dwarven riders on badgers see picture
-maybe some servitorthingie driving them
rather than sit, you make a bike where a dwarf kinda lies in it, but that would require serious effort to convert.
>>46395076
Don't Skitarriii also move an extra 3" by default?
I don't get why people call them weak.
>>46395023
RAW, there's nothing stopping it from just defaulting to the facing the Skyray is in. If I were FAQ'ing it, I'd probably have it go at Side armor like most other indirect targeted weapons.
>>46395075
you say this almost as if Tau can't do this already and is beyond reason to think the missles might lol
>>46394776
They're not terrible overall, but you need to know what you're getting into.
They have some actually good/great units, but they're limited to mostly just flyrants and maybe some biovores if you want to be actually competitive.
If don't care about being competitive and just want to have fun and be somewhat decent (not get stomped), their fine, but not the best, for sure. If this is more your angle, it's much more important that you like the aesthetics, fluff, and feel of the army overall. Also, know that you're going to have a lot of painting to do, but once it's done, there are few things more satisfying than fielding a complete swarm army.
So, what's the difference between Horus Heresy books by Adam Bligh(4 books i think) and the 30+ books Horus Heresy series?(Horus Rising, False gods, etc..)
>>46394878
Guardians aren't great with their shotguns, and the wave serpent's less ridiculous this edition (one of the rare nerfs in the last eldar dex).
>>46390957
>>46390970
>>46390973
nobody was buying those shits since the early 90's.
>>46395133
the books by Bligh are the ones from forgeworld? These can be used to play with models and offer background like a "history book", the Black Library (False gods ...) are novels, so stories.
>>46395135
Its still gonna be 600 points of free wave serpent though.
I think you're right though that even that wouldn't be very strong in the Eldar dex. Those 600 points spent on guardians for 600 points of free transports could easily buy 2 more wraithknights.
>>46395076
the Vanguard are fantastic. the Rangers are so-so. The problem for Vanguard is getting anywhere to shoot their awesome guns without dying due to lack of transport.
>reaches out 30
and any smart player after learning about these advantages can play tactics around that. Admech surprised people at first but the shock quickly wore off.
>>46395102
the melee models, which are extremely expensive and die to a stiff breeze do as well as the Dragoon walkers, equally flimsily for vehicles though actually somewhat decent.
>>46395047
Still missing out on everything except thunderers and Imperial Navy-no pinup paint jobs, no commissar tanks, no great ammo, no coaxial weapons, no obsec tanks. They lack all the nice stuff i added on that was supported. Plus running formations mixed in with regular CADs leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'll leave them shelved rather than have them miss out on half the customisation and all the cool special rules available to them.
>>46395135
>Assault 2 pseudorending S4 shotguns
>Free Av12 3HP skmmers with Serpent Shields and a respectable amount of firepower for their actual cost
Eldar Company supported by Wraiths would be the most heinously broken army in the game by a country mile. Which isn't actually much of a shift in terms of actual power level.
What units would CSM need to get access to the WarConvo benefits?
>>46391878
>>46391441
First game played! Ended up 7-9 to them. Went fairly well I feel and they had little negative to say at the end. And I learnt 2 things
Tech priests tank like no tomorrow
Infiltrators love cutting up guardsmen:D
>>46395191
If he's ceding all of that ground to you, you get all those sexy objectives to yourself. If he's only focusing on the Vanguard advancing into range, the rest of your units get to continue their killing that much more easily.
>>46395220
Well, a Chaos Knight from forgeworld is a given. Other than that, the formation is mostly basic troops right? Have the Skitarii half be cultists and the cult mech half be standard csm.
>>46395267
maybe I just suck at playing admech, but the army as a whole is medium range. the longest range gun they have is 48" on their tank and vanguard moving up typically means out of cover as well.
>>46395251
what list did he bring? I've played ig vs skitarii and absolutely murdered them. almost a natural counter.
>>46395335
Was only a small game because I lack much (900pts) he brought 4 tanks and a collection of guardsmen, unit of vets and las canons. I had the start collecting box + infiltrators and serviters
>>46395452
whenever those infiltrators actually get into combat they're beautiful. doing that is the... hard part though, how'd you manage that?
So, FW removed a ton of dreadnoughts.
Do you think it occurred to them that monstrous creatures have made dreadnoughts (and vehicles in general) complete garbage on the tabletop?
As in, do you think GW/FW is aware of the fact that their own shitty rules killed dreadnought sales?
Most people seem to love dreads, but fielding them is gimping your army. So a well liked model, that doesnt really sell - that is entirely GW's fault. And if they had competent leadership, would not happen.
Imagine if you had a way to increase sales at your job -for years- but instead hurt sales through sheer ignorance/stupidity? What would your boss do?
>>46394715
>anecdotal evidence'd
Welp, that settles that! Better run WarConvo exclusively, wouldnt want to take the chance of losing a game.
>>46395476
The flip side is (used) dreads are quite affordable now. They can be useful in casual games when specifically used as a specialist instrument of an overall strategy, so poor kids shouldn't feel bad fielding dreads instead of oh I don't know storm talons as long as they're used effectively.
>>46395476
>monstrous creatures
in general, they really are better. don't suffer stunned results. have a save. can't have weapons blown off.
what seems to make a big difference is if those MC have decent shooting or not. if they do they tend to be great. somehow Nids always lose out on this however.
I know I'd love to use my own Dreadnoughts again
>>46395103
>>46395086
>>46395075
Ok, just trying to see if I can worry AV14 vehicles without needing a hammerhead.
speaking of which, can you use the farsight enclave signature systems on something not in a farsight detachment?
How are Grey Knights?
I like mobile armies, and with their interceptor squads and gates of eternity they seem up my alley.
However, I'm kind of concerned about their lack of unit variety. Their entire army is basically "spess paladin", "slightly different spess paladin", or "space paladin in better armor"
But on the third hand, I could always just fix that by using allies, I guess.
What do?
>>46395335
48" range can hit most of the table deployed centrally, and you should be advancing.
If you can't get cover saves for your Skitarii, you don't have enough terrain on your tables.
The other guy has a bunch of metal boxes performing hit and run against your line? Bust out the Holy Requisitioner and take away his metal boxes.
>>46395123
Nice meme, dude. Wall of mirror fools the enemies so they aren't prepared for the attack from the right direction. You know there are some abstractions in the rules, right?
>>46395526
>can nonfarsight armies take farsight stuff
Are you stupid?
Your best bet against AV14 is gettin into another armor facing or Melta. I you're having trouble doing either as Tau, then this game may be too difficult for you.
>>46395542
As a GK player, we basically have three units-Power armour GK with extra ML/more special weapons/teleporters, Termie GK/2w termie GK, and the Dreadknight which carries the entire army like a baby. Our army is turn 1 deepstriking for its mobility, so vehicles are mostly pointless, and we have nothing else. I usually use them for an ally for a squishier army these days
>>46395597
Don't SMS always hit side? The Deredeo's missiles always hit side as well. It's not that common, but missiles attacking the sides as an abstraction for coming in from above has precendence in multiple armies. Plus Vector Strikes on Side armor, the Dreadclaws fire thing, hell, Fist of Khorne formation I think hits the side with its D hit.
>>46395555
I suppose I could try this formation more.
![day_26___sanic_hegehog_by_moxie2d-d8r3v0h[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/XgjA24a.jpg "day_26___sanic_hegehog_by_moxie2d-d8r3v0h[1].jpg")
>>46395623
Hmm. Well shit.
Any advice on what to pick for a mobile army?
I gotta go fast, bro
>>46395476
It's not the monstrous creatures, the problem lies in the vehicles rules.
They're like a strange tipe of mc with different T values, but with no saves and usually 3 wounds.
If you convert the armour value in toughness, you will see how really hard they are.
And then, they have several drawback wich are not compensated with ANYTHING.
>>46392445
Bro, he's playing against a 3000 point WarConvo.
I recently realized that the guys who bring these super-competitive lists and formations are usually poor sports taboot.
I've been noticing that the rules lawyers/temper tantrum faggots at my flgs all play waac lists. A double Wraithknight + scatbike spam, WarConvo, two Tau powerlisters, a Ravenwing guy, and another Tau guy. All the guys normal people avoid because theyre shitlords, are also waac fags.
I guess this hobby attracts some really spoiled, self-centered people. It's up to the rest of us to afford them space in the community, and treat them kindly - while they just bring the whole scene down a peg or two. The worst part is, none of them seem to have any clue what huge assholes they are. And none of them can paint for shit. If they paint at all.
>>46395730
Eldar
Ravening gang
White Scar bike gang
Chaos Daemons?
>>46395730
Deldar are THE gottagofast army, or you could look into corsairs. That said, Blood angels supported by interceptors could be pretty good. A librarian, five troop termies and two ten-man combat squadded interceptors supporting a BAngels drop pod/jump pack army could be cool
>>46395679
SMS ignores cover and don't require LoS.
>>46395773
Any idea when the Delder ruling on jinking shots is going to arrive? The suspension is killing me.
Couldn't find a 40krpg thread, so I'll ask here.
I've been roped into a Rogue Trader game. I skimmed through the careers and decided to make a Seneschal. What I'm in for? The career looks like a weird mix between a stealthy-type and an accountant, is that right? Also, are there any guides on how to build a character well? I really don't want to make a decision I'd regret later.
>>46395471
Infiltrating went a long way. Moved up turn 1. Ran. Turn 2 move + charge. The table had a raised catwalk that limited who could shoot at them.
>>46395733
It is the monstrous creatures though. Without the three armies having walkers that for some reason ($ales) were awarded MC/GC status - the vehicle rules wouldnt look that bad. If we were all concerned about our walkers arm getting blown off, or his rear armor getting exposed - the vehicle rules would be acceptable.
But as it stands, your big metal suit with a guy inside gets good rules, while my big metal suit with a guy inside gets shit rules. And Mechanicums remote-controlled ROBOT, gets creature rules. While Chaos' CREATURES made of flesh and metal get vehicle rules.
If the Tau/Eldar/SkitMech players could for one moment try to see things from a perspective other than their own, they might be able to catch a glimpse of why so many people harbor resentment toward them. It's complete and utter bullshit, and anyone trying to justify these sales-driven rules decisions with their own fluff is a fucking retard.
>>46395922
Reality would be
>Tau and Eldar vehicles are constructed with such finesse that it is hard to find any weakpoint in their armour
>Tau and Eldar walker (vehicles) are immune to explosions and weapon destroyed results
Search your heart you know it to be true.
>>46395976
I could see it for Eldar stuff, since that's literally psychically controlled mass. There isn't any sort of reactor to blow up, so I see why they went with MC for it.
Riptide just makes no sense and is a holdover from them making smaller battle suits infantry because they were worried that many walkers would be OP.
>>46395976
Oh, well when you put it like that it makes sense. Crisis averted guys, turns out everyone irritated by walker/mc rules was wrong - they are an accurate portrayal of the real thing after all.
>Waah walkers and MCs waah
Fuck's sake guys. Literally everything that can be said on this topic has been said, and you still insist on filling threads with this shit.
>>46395976
Explain the Mechanicums Castellan Robot getting MC rules if you could? I'd like to get that one off the books too.
Explaining why Chaos monsters are vehicles can wait, we need time to digest all this logic.
>>46396050
Yet it still lives. People still justify it with headcanon/fluff, and walk away feeling entirely in the right. And other people shake their heads and laugh at them.
>>46396049
>>46396079
Joke
___________________
You guys
What the hell do Necrons have for firepower?
I feel like we have jack and shit for guns.
Can Adeptus Mechanicum in 40k use Mechanicum units from the Hours Heresy game?
>>46396050
Eat shit namefag. You bitching about the bitching puts you right on par with them.
>>46396141
But anon, everyone is namefag today.
![317[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/J2VKwrW.png "317[1].png")
>>46396118
(you)
>>46396141
>Says the namefag to the namefag
You're no better than he is, Duane.
>>46396122
No.
And take your name off ffs. Being anonymous is kind of the thing here. No one gives a fuck who you are, and no one wants to see that name up there.
>>46396177
Whatever you say Lance.
>>46396177
lmao
>>46395922
>skitmech
war congregation is all we have eat a dick
but really, I was just laying out to my friend how much more effective MC are vs vehicles which tau currently have a monopoly on. Let me lay out some pros vs cons
MC Pros:
>No "vehicle damage" chart
-Cannot be stunned, shaken, immobilized, weapon destroyed
>With no VD chart that means they cannot be one-shot by a lucky asshole with a melta.
It's easy to name off 5 weapons that can eat AV14 and pop an expensive vehicle in 1 turn but how many can you name capable of the same vs a MC?
>T6 = AV10, T7=11 etc.
so what you effectively have are “vehicles” with 3+/2+ saves, often have Invul saves and have options for a second save featuring FNP.
>No rear armor
No assholes with STR4 grenades glancing you to death and certainly not without a save
>Hammer of Wrath/Smash
tactical options to engage in CC
Cons:
>can be shot up by the 3 units in the game with points weapons.
>???
I hate to say it, but I need help. I play IG and my one of my friends plays Tau. However I keep getting demolished. Riptides blow up my Chimeras, run shoot-run jetpack Crises suits keep getting behind my tanks, and smart missiles make using cover for my infantry pointless. I thought about fliers, but after watching one of the other players get their Stormwolf killed before it could fire multiple times I expect that will end only with burning ships. He also just got a hammerhead and that looks pretty scary. What do I do?
>>46396177
Screw you Lance. Everyone is namefag today.
>like warhams more for the hobby aspect of sitting around, maybe having a beer, and assembling + converting + painting some models
>more interested in doing cool models than having a competitive army
Would people at my FLGS play me if I walked in with say, some Tyranid big bugs, some grey knights, and a necron monolith?
Is it alright to just kinda collect what I want? Or should I focus on building a workable army first, THEN switch to buying whatever I feel like?
>>46396207
MCs are vulnerable to poison, snipers, and Instant Death, though the saves often make up for that.
Anyone pretending they're vulnerable to massed infantry firepower is kidding themselves.
>>46396281
Go orks and loot shit.
>>46395922
It's not, MC is just an oversized infantry model rulewise, while vehicles have their own ruleset and overspecialized weapon that play with they'r armour and armour penetration rules are common.
My Dread can be literally been torn to pieces and glanced to death, still a MC did not have this kind of weakness and they are like 100% operational 'till the last wound are loosed.
To have a better comparison try to replace armour values with a T values.
AV10 is T6 and so on.
I feel like veichles in general need a little boost, like removing the hull point thing that was needed when suddenly popped out, but right now it's just the biggest weakness of every veichles, cause now they are all like something with an high T values, some wound and no armor saves rather some 4+/5+ cover
That way they pay the lack of armor saves with a kind of resilience.
>>46396281
You wouldn't be able to play those different things at once.
You should buy whatever you want, but if you want to play with it, you have to play by the rules
>>46396207
Let’s do some comparisons to try and bring this into perspective. Now, what will be important to keep in mind is that while not every MC is a powerhouse, the point is their rules are straight up superior in the current meta (and tau MC are horrendously underpriced)
let’s compare that Ta’unar unit from FW. The Stormsurge with three big dicks and two more on its’ arms vs a Baneblade. 600pts vs 525 (could make it 575 if we want to throw on two more Lascannons)
Ta’Unar: T8, 10wounds, STR D 7” blast w/ alt firing mode,+ Missiles, Plus 5 shot multi-meltas, or a different fast shooting gnu w/ alt firing mode.
in addition
>4+invul save
>FNP
>super shield that reduces D weapon Deathshots by half
>5+invul in CC
Baneblade: AV 14/13/12, 9HP. 10” STR10 AP2 blast, Autocannon, TL HBolter x3, Two Lascannons, Demolisher cannon
the BB can lose up to 4 HP from a single Melta gun or many, many other weapons. There is hardly such equivalent for a MC such as the T’unar.
>>46396329
I still like the idea of just removing hullpoints from vehicles. I don't think it would make them much better, but it does make things more interesting when you can't just get glanced to death and the damage table is actually necessary.
My only issue would be the lack of way to differentiate between a 2 Hullpoint skimmer and a 5 hullpoint tank, other than AV.
Perhaps heavier vehicles could give a minus on the table?
>>46396329
see, I disagree. I actually think vehicles are in a beautiful place right now walkers need some sort of advantage while MC need to be toned down and put on the same playing field that Vehicles are on.
>>46395679
It needs to be barrage to always hit side. The airfraglauncher we talked about earlier has it. SMS do not
>>46396285
I had actually meant Poison not "points" towards the end there.
But even then that still leaves them with their saves. Snipers are even worse with fewer shots. Id is the only real different one but models that can dish this out are either hot, priority targets that get mowed down or too few to matter.
>>46396422
The issue isn't the MC rules though. Its just specific MCs that are undercoated.
Go ahead and name 5 overpowered MCs that are better than your typical walker.
Anyone got any ideas for a Necron color scheme?
I want to do something other than metal and more metal.
>>46396497
You picked the wrong army then
>>46396497
Purple and gold
>>46396285
Vehicles are also vulnerable to instant death though. Ap1/2 weapons, or any weapon that can penetrate you if you're open topped.
>>46395976
The eldar war walker is actually a walker, other than that you probably should not search for a logic in it. Accept they rolled a die to see if its a walker or MC. Makes as much sense as every other definition i have seen.
>>46396463
this is true but but "bringing them down to the same play field" could include simple points adjustment. but this still leaves them with numerous pros over vehicles in general as a default. Every army has multiple answers and tricks to handle vehicles. stunning them, forcing them to jink, assaulting. there's no real answer however vs MC other than just herp derp shoot them more.
>>46396497
Thokt a best.
>>46396524
I already listed this in my previous post.
I forgot about OT as well. this is especially kek worthy when the Stormsurge just mocks everyone by having the pilots out in the open
>>46396524
Read what I said again. I'm talking about the Instant Death special rule.
A Land Raider doesn't have to worry about a Librarian walking up and poking it with a Force sword.
>>46396587
The explodes result is exactly the same as instant death except its available on basically any anti-tank platform instead of being limited to a very specific number of melee units.
>>46396548
MCs also suffer from leadership, as they're not fearless by default. This also leaves them vulnerable to psychich powers.
I get that vehicles weaknesses are obvious and more common, but its not like MCs are immune to everything ever.
>>46396587
no, just a meta saturated with squads with x3 meltas or STR10 AP 1 from across the map.
>>46396118
Lots of S7: Annihilator barge, Nightscythe...
Their basic guns can wound/glance everything, so drowning is a thing
the praetorians have a S5 Ap2 gun
Tomb blades have a nice ignore cover gun
Heavy Destroyers and Doomsday arcs bring the big bangs
>>46396611
I've never heard of this being an issue for MC. ever. it's so much of an uncommon tactic it's essentially ignorable
>>46396605
And somebody already brought that up. I was just listing things MCs were vulnerable to for comparison purposes. Stop pretending like you've made some grand revelation.
>>46396644
Stop pretending like instant death is only a problem MCs have. If anything, its another point in favor of them that they're only vulnerable to specific things with the instant death rule.
>>46396611
Doesn't that mean if you kill off a Ghostkeel's drone, they'll have to test for taking casualties?
If you kill both, does the ghostkeel need to roll double 1s to regroup?
>>46396521
That sounds pretty nice.
>>46396561
Not gonna lie. That looks pretty sweet.
>>46396667
That was my entire point! Somebody listed off all the things vehicles were weak to (including explosions) and I added on with the things MCs were weak to, which was a much shorter list.
I was also specifically talking about the Instant Death special rule, which vehicles are intact immune to. They get to deal with the much worse damage table and explodes instead.
Can you not read at all?
>>46396743
fair enough. these are things they're weak to but they're so few and far between they might as well not even be counted. If anything the inclusion of more of these rules would help bring them more in line with vehicles without hurting Vehicles at the same time.
>>46396640
Pic of your face when you realize a riptide with drones has to make a test if he runs like a scared little kid, please?
>>46396774
Err when the drones die
>>46396774
>>46396789
That gives me an idea. What if MCs had to test leadership for shooting when they took 25% wounds, just like normal squads do?
What Tau units would you recommend in an Eternal War:Relic battle?
>>46396789
there's three tau players in my FLGS that spam the damn things. this is almost never an issue. ever.
>>46396774
>LD9
Yeah, morale ain't why people skip drones. You could still have them hide behind the riptide and only leap forward to shield it when it gets low on health.
People don't take shielded missile drones because 25 ppm for 2 bs5 shots is fucking garbage.
>>46396812
What if AP1 Dealt instant death on a to-wound roll of a 5+, and AP2 on a 6+ to monstrous creatures; and tyranids in synapse range gained eternal warrior?
>>46396517
Very funny.
>>46396521
Sounds pretty nice actually.
>>46396561
That's pretty sweet.
>>46396281
As unctuous as most players find going unbound, you won't have trouble finding opponents assuming your shit is painted/being painted and it's not just a collection of OP shit.
So, there shouldn't be a problem as long as your mix of Nids, GKnights, and Necrons isn't just Flyrants, Dread Knights, and Monoliths.
>>46396857
this is a pretty great idea. might be a bit much though. maybe only on a wound of 6+ for Ap1 though. not that it matters, we have literally no say in what GW does
>>46396042
>There isn't any sort of reactor to blow up
legs (immobilized), arms (weapon destroyed), soulstone (wrecked/explodes!)
They were originally eldar dreadnoughts, you know. Wraithknights/'Tides have even less reason to be GCs, considering they're PILOTED VEHICLES.
>>46396926
and Stormsurges have 0 reason not to be counted as Open Topped but tau give no fucks
>>46397022
I just want to know why poison is more effective than haywire on them. Like, you could argue wraithbone is weak to biological attacks because it's technically alive, but what excuse do the tau robots have?
>>46396050
Just because other people have had the conversation before doesn't mean all of these posters have, and there's always the chance something fruitul will come of this.
>>46396905
He's making it similar to explosion, which is a 6+ on AP2 or 5+ on AP1
>>46396857
Why would Tyranids get Eternal Warrior?
>>46397078
Poison is a general term
Normal poison won't work on crons, they always bring the special shit
Also I wonder what the discussion would look like, with 5th ed rules, without hullpoints.
>>46397078
Personally I think they should port over the Mechanical special rule from 30k
Which basically made some Mechanicius units immune/resistant to Poison/Fleshbane at the cost of being more vulnerable to Haywire/Armourbane
>>46397131
riptides and dreadknights were in 5th, weren't they? I'm fairly certain people hated on them being MCs then.
>>46396463
1.Kairos Fateweaver
2.Daemon princes
3.Flyrant
4.Dreadknight
5.Ghostkeel
