Link to the Trove:
>https://mega.nz/#F!3FcAQaTZ!BkCA0bzsQGmA2GNRUZlxzg!vJsyAa5T
Relevant Items and Miscellany:
>http://pastebin.com/FQJx2wsC
Question of the thread:
> How many of you are actually playing OSR games? Tell us some stories.
first for a good basic fantasy character sheet
playing chaotic caves today
>>46359301
>How many of you are actually playing OSR games?
I am DMing about 4 games a week.
>Tell us some stories
Last month one of my groups went astray and they all died, inside the dungeon.
>>46359753
>Last month one of my groups went astray and they all died, inside the dungeon.
Conclusion: Traps are a bitch!
I've been toying around with a system for stat generation for Castles & Crusades that provides some link between your designation of primary and secondary stats and the modifiers these stats give you. (I posted this the other day in the short Castles & Crusades thread.) It seems like if designating strength a primary stat gives you a 6 point boost towards checks related to physical power, it should also give you *some* sort of boost to melee damage. As it is, you're just as likely to end up with a 3 strength and -3 damage as you are to end up with an 18 strength and +3 damage. (And the guy with a 3 strength as a primary attribute? His checks are identical to the guy with 18 strength as a secondary attribute.)
So what do you think of the system in the pic here? Does it work well, or is it too junky?
>>46361486
>>46359301
I've played in some old AD&D games, but sadly never any proper OSR ones. I will, however, be running a Dark Dungeons campaign on Roll20 soon!
Who's played ACKS? How are it's rules for running a domain different than other games?
>>46359301
I'd love to run an OSR game sometime but I'm already DMing a 5e game and I don't have the time to run or join another game.
If I did DM, it might be a little too lighthearted and low on lethality since that's basically all I can do.
>>46363341
>DMing a 5e game
Good on you, bro. 5E is a lot of fun!
>>46363226
They're pretty detailed, and the game has a lot of economic and social considerations for it. It also changes some assumptions about how characters work and how things play out (for example, you can get devoted henchmen from level 1 onwards).
The short answer would probably be "it's pretty detailed and has more attention devoted to it than usual in these kinds of games."
Sadly, the all-but-essential mass combat and war rules are their own separate book. You can get the basic rules for that free, though.
>>46364352
On a sidenote, ACKS is a pretty good system just for general play as well, and should not be considered to be just a game of domain running. It has all the parts anyo other OSR system would in general have.
Also, cleaving is awesome and makes fighters feel like badasses.
>>46359301
>>46361486
>>46361772
Dungeon maps were that particular shade of blue to prevent photocopying. Realizing that they probably get more exposure now as digital media than they ever did in the 70s & 80s is kind of amusing.
>>46364870
Excuse my ignorance, why would blue be harder to photocopy?
>>46365361
It's not blue in general, it's the color blue they used. Old photocopiers couldn't pick it up,k registering the blue as white rather than a darker color so that you could try and scan it but chances were low that it would.
>>46365606
If you were smart though, you would trace everything with a dark pen before photocopying it. Yeah, they didn't think of that one, did they?!
>>46359301
> How many of you are actually playing OSR games?
None at the moment but I'm going to start DMing my first game of BX/LL next week.
>>46359301
> How many of you are actually playing OSR games?
I was playing some LotFP. Now I'm preparing a full sandbox/hex crawl thing to do through roll20. We're likely going to stream it on twitch/throw it on youtube. I remember when I first got into OSR I looked all over the place for actual play recordings and couldn't find any.
>>46359301
so the classic D&D character creation is roll 3d6 down the line, choose class. And there's no fiddly bits like choosing feats and prestige classes and all that shit.
So is there an online character builder? You know, something that rolls the 3d6 down the line for you, then lets you choose class.
It sounds like something obvious, but online all I see are dozens of "random character generators" which make you choose class before you know your rolls, or leave it at "random class".
I mean, it's not like character generation takes long, but it'd be nice to be able to just make a quick character with a few clicks without having to write down stuff.
>>46366465
Not sure about OD&D and BX or whatever, but I know there is one floating around for AD&D, used it once. Even calculated followers which was nice.
>>46366465
If all you're looking for is 3d6 down the line, you can use any of the generators and just take the stats, ignore the class they chose and pick one for yourself.
I enjoy this one: http://character.totalpartykill.ca/basic/
This one lets you decide what it decides:
http://barnadesigns.com/BCG/Index.html
>>46366686
>http://barnadesigns.com/BCG/Index.html
I would like this one if it let me change the class after rolling.
Basically, what I want is not have to write down stuff all the stuff that is part of the class and stats, like hp, saves, hit bonuses,. Guess it's time to grab excel and start making my own version.
Ideally what I'm gonna aim for is a 2 step proccess:
>press buttan roll 3d6 down the line
>choose class
>done.
Don't know if the Requester saw it from last thread; but I finished the Cold Fae North encounters pdf.
Not sure if this is exactly what you are looking for, but I hope someone enjoys it either way.
>>46366967
I'm world building a Frostfell style game, so I'll cannibalize this for ideas for sure. Keep up the good work anon.
>>46365722
If you're goona got to that much trouble, why not break out Ye Olde graph paper, and just hand copy the thing?
Oddly, the room/monster/item descriptions in the modules were always regular black type.
>>46366967
Not the requester but damn, that shit is good!
How compatible is becmi with AD&D 1e?
I want to use the village of homlet module for my becmi game, but I want to know if I have to convert it or something.
>>46367790
The 1e conversion rules are in some of the Gazetteers (most from 6 onwards, I think). 2e conversion rules are in the back of the RC.
Max hit points at level 1 or roll?
>>46368357
are your players babies or men?
noob dm here, if using random tables in a encounter lets says, the party is in the fore and 1d8 orcs attack them, how do i measure the distance?, today all my players just runned away because there was no way the orcs could chase them down, and i let them do a save of death ray+dex to finally escape the orcs
>>46368357
At this point my homerules are so completed fucked I barely even care anymore.
But yes, I give maximum hit points on first level. Your randomness of hit points is entirely based upon your Con score bonus hit points, that's it.
>>46368357
Max Hit Points, unless I'm doing a DCC style Funnel that is
I was reading some old modules for D&D and AD&D, and wew there is a lot of combat.
I was led to believe OSR dungeons were more about exploration, players should try to avoid combat and focus on getting loot.
But looking at a lot of these adventures, (like keep on the borderlands), 4 in 5 rooms are filled with monsters. And most there's just no way for the players to pass by without being noticed.
The best example for this I can think of is keep on the borderlands where there's no fucking way you can get in without fighting a billion creatures. How the hell do people play those module? With the amount of hp you get at level 1, I'd see the players maybe explore 5 or so rooms before having to retreat due to not having hp to continue.
>>46368384
The encounter distance rules are usually in the same place (roughly) in the books as the surprise rules. In the Rules Cyclopedia for instance this is on page 92 and the distance is 1d4x10'. Similarly the evasion and pursuit rules are on pp. 98-100 and are pretty extensive, kinda too much for my tastes tb h. I do like the OD&D rules about throwing food/treasure to distract pursuers. (RC has a variant of this rule but it's vaguer and less likely to succeed, which I think is a shame)
>>46368882
You're supposed to roll for reactions every time it's reasonably appropriate, thereby ensuring that not all "encounters" are automatically "combat encounters". You could also sneak around and explore without engaging, to plan for a strategy before the fight.
I'm running Keep on the Borderlands as well, and the party is getting by fine by fighting smart. Flasks of oil, rope traps, maneuvering numerically superior enemies in choke points, planning on casting sleep on beehives and throwing them inside the caves (that's a hilarious idea), and so on.
Just because "there are monsters" it doesn't mean you are automatically required to fight them on their terms. What were you expecting, a dungeon full of loot but with no monsters living in it?
>>46368384
Depends on the edition. in B/X:
a) Encounters in the dungeon are either around the next corner, at visual range given light sources and darkvision, or, if neither applies, 2d6 times 10 feet.
b) Encounters in the wilderness depend on local terrain, or, if you want to roll it randomly, 4d6 times 10 yards. If either side is surprised, distance is just 1d4 times 10 yeards.
c) B/X has an "evasion table" to handle pursuit and escape, pic related.
>>46368357
Max, and reroll 1s on subsequent levels. It's how Rob Kuntz had me roll when I gamed with him at a con game, so I consider it legit Old School by proxy.
>>46369467
>c) B/X has an "evasion table" to handle pursuit and escape, pic related.
There's also evasion rules for the dungeon as well, but they're a bit different - you need to lose your pursuers by going around corners or dropping stuff to distract them.
Also, if either party is surprised then the encounter starts quite a bit closer. And in OD&D at least monsters are immune to surprise in the dungeon on account of the party's light sources making them a dead giveaway, but I'm not sure if that made it into later editions.
Since another guy advertised his OSR style game here: I run a game with these rules and I am always looking for new players. We game every thursday evening from 7pm CET to 10pm CET. It's a voice game (we use TS) on roll20Post your contact information if you're interested, next game is in 5 1/2 hours
>>46369651
There are a few places (Monsters, Magic Missile) with the German abbreviation for dices (e.g. 1W8 instead of 1d8), in other parts 1d... is used.
>>46370330
W, huh? What's the German word for dice?
I think the nomenclature here in Sweden is 1t6, for instance, for "tärning".
>>46370330
>>46370423
MFW Americans call tinky, tanky, click and clanky, flick and patter, num-num clatters "dice".I roll 1ttccfpnnc8 for longsword damage.
Rolled 1, 3, 2, 6, 1, 2, 2, 1, 2, 4, 1, 1, 6 = 32 (13d6)
>>46360388
Let me roll up a character. I'll go for an elven ranger and with Strength and Dexterity as primary attributes.
That puts my raw numbers before rolling at:
Strength 3
Dexterity 4 (3 base +1 racial adjustment)
Constitution 0 (1 base -1 racial adjustment)
Intelligence 1
Wisdom 1
Charisma 1
>>46370603
Strength gets -2 from the gimp die. The rest of the rolls add 1 apiece, so I end up with...
Strength 5 = 15
Dexterity 8 = 18
Constitution 3 = 12
Intelligence 2 = 9
Wisdom 1 = 8
Charisma 3 = 12
I will now increase my Strength and Constitution by 1 apiece by lowering Charisma and Wisdom by the same amount. So my final scores look like...
Strength 16 (+2)
Dexterity 18 (+3)
Constitution 13 (+1)
Intelligence 9
Wisdom 7 (-1)
Charisma 11
I rolled really well on Dexterity, and well enough on Strength to overcome the gimp die. Overall, this is a really kickass character.
>>46370423
Würfel - it also means cube.
>>46362484
Adding to this from yesterday, if you wish to join there are 3 slots still open for the Dark Dungeons game.
app.roll20 (dot) (net) /forum/post/3160578/new-to-slash-osr-slash
for your petty theft needs.
>>46368357
I've started using the gygax house rule that 1s on HD were re-rolled and added.
So if you rolled a d6 and got a 1, you would re-roll and add the 1. If you rolled a 1 and then a 6, you'd get 7HP.
>>46370330
It's an alpha
Does anyone know of a space sci-fi game or setting that uses BX/LL compatible rules? I know there's SWN and Whitestar but iirc neither is directly compatible with BX. I want science-fantasy planet-hopping in my game and I love the BX system.
>>46369651
Are you still there?
>>46372554
Spelljammer?
Hey, it's me again. I've posted my hexcrawl map a few days ago, and now I've added some encounters. I think that there isn't really enough, but I'm not sure how many I should have, any tips/guides? Also, I've heard that thieves in B/X are kind of lame, any houserules?
>>46372643
Sure,start is in 45 minutes, post a way to reach you if you want to join
>>46372767My skype name is morosierra, im from Argentina
>>46369651
this is fucking cool. I like.
>>46372725
Figure out your endgame. Who is the big bad? Who are their minions? What other threats or quests are there?
>>46368357
Roll first hit die, but raise to a minimum of high average if lower; i.e. d4 will be at least 3, d6 will be at least 4, etc.
>>46372725
A thief's abilities are an EXTRA chance. Anybody can climb up a wall, given time and gear. maybe in challenging situations they might need to make a strength roll.
A thief, however, can climb any wall. Smooth glass? Howling gale? Monsters at your heels? Fail your strength roll? Whatever the situation, the thief ALWAYS gets to make their % roll.
>>46372725
>>46372725
Use the thief from Labyrinth Lord for a direct clone with better stats, or use the Specialist from LotFP for a more malleable character build. (Thief? Focus on Tinker and Sleight of Hand. Ranger? Bushcraft and Stealth. Assassin? Stealth and Sneak Attack. Etc)
someone here plays basic fantasy? what additional rules do you recommend me to use?
>>46375735
What are the differences between Labyrinth Lord and regular B/X? Also, is the advanced book good?
>>46376268
They're nearly identical. LL has changed prices for things and better skill % for the thief. I'm sure there's a plethora of minor numerical adjustments.
I haven't looked at ALL too much, but I'm pretty sure it's basically an AD&D clone, with separate race and class, assassins, paladin's etc.
>>46376268
LL & B/X Are identical except for some minor copyright changes, and one huge change to cleric spell progression. Lvl 1 clerics in B/X get no spells, yet in LL they receive a Lvl 1 spell.
The AEC adds some options present in AD&D, such as separate race and class. It basically skims AD&D, lift some subsystems and imports them on the B/X adventuring and combat systems.
>>46377268
Clerics - SHOULD they get spells at level 1?
I think early editions said no.
>>46376268
>>46376786
Labyrinth Lord thieving abilities are not appreciatively different from the ones from B/X. They start off about 3% better at 1st level, but by the time you get to 10th level, it's pretty much a wash, with some being a few points better and some being a few points worse. Maybe you were comparing LL to BECMI, where they padded thief skills out to 36 levels rather than just 14, making them extra crappy?
>>46377326
Do they get Turn Undead? If yes, they don't need spells as well. At least, not at level 1.
>>46372725
Here's a boosted version of the regular thief percentiles, if you wanted to keep the same basic system, but with better success rates.
>>46377445
>>46372725
You might also want to check out the d6-based skills in Lamentations of the Flame Princess. Attached is a simple homebrew d20-based way to do thief skills.
>>46377363
Gotta agree with this. Turn undead is your first 'holy' ability. Spells are just bigger miracles that you can perform.
Turn undead, once a round, turn, or day?
>>46377498
And a general d12 system for covering all sorts of checks, including those for thieving skills.
>>46377502
none of those. Once you've failed to turn a target, you can't turn it ever again, but you can keep turning a target you turned successfully indefinately.
>>46369651
>links to tv tropes
>calls dungeon crawling stupid
>EMPHASIZING RANDOM PHRASES like it's a comic book
>just as elitist as every other primer
what is it about this sort of things that makes only the most autistic people write them?
>>46371881
Should add a paper with the phrase
>I see you
Any good, goofy module recs?
>>46372725
B/X DM here. What i do to boost thieves is:
First of all, use Labyrinth Lord's skills. They're a bit higher than B/X's.
Second, every +1 in Dex modifier you have is a +5%.
Third, and perhaps most importantly, what >>46375597 said.
Anyone can move silently, thieves have a chance to move in ABSOLUTE silence. Everyone can hide behind cover, thieves have a chance to hide IN SHADOW. Everyone can find a simple pit trap, thieves have a chance to find the most fiendishly complex and well-concealed mechanical and magical traps. and so on and so on.
Your map is pretty cool.
...
*squint*
...is that Lodoss?
Would a Bard/Minstrel in LotFP work, with specialist type skill accruals, but the skills are song types? Like an Inspiration that gives +1 attack to allies, an Overture that gives +2 AC to allies, a Mockery that does d4 damage on success, a ballad that does -2 Moral damage etc.
Too dumb or broken?
so the main difference between a lvl 1 fighter and a lvl 20 fighter is HP and AB?
>>46380255
Sometimes there's also additional attacks per round.
>>46380255
And number of attacks/cleaves/whatever depending on the system.
>>46380214
too clunky. Just build one as a specialist with high charisma. Maybe add 'performance' as a custom skill for the campaign that makes people like you.
>>46380255
>so the main difference between a lvl 1 fighter and a lvl 20 fighter is HP and AB?
And their saves. But basically, yeah.
>>46380255
Also, all the magic items that they've picked up over twenty levels of adventures.
And a barony, and an army. Possibly an empire, tons of vassals and even more armies/fleets, if they've been proactive.
And millions of gold in assets. Not so much liquid wealth, necessarily, but a lot of wealth and income.
So, using squares instead of hexes for your maps!
Pros:
navigating north/south/east/west is easier
finding squared paper is much easier than finding hexed paper
easier to designate a grid reference (such as 'six squares left, one square up')
Cons:
Corner-to-corner movement gets silly
Easier for players to construct a square-by-square reproduction of your map
Doesn't look as cool
Thoughts?
>>46380403
I want him to be a buffer in battle, not just easy to accrue retainers, which is all CHA is really good for in LotFP.
>>46380545
yes but having the bard playing the lute SO WELL that they inspire all their allies to fight harder, in the middle of a gritty battle, instead of fighting... is dumb as hell. It really is.
Maybe give their music (as a standard X-in-6 skill tacked onto the specialist) the following effects with a successful roll:
-Completely counteract a sound-based attack such as a harpy's song or a banshee's wail
-Add the number on the dice to retainer's morale
-Improve allies saves vs mind fuckery by the number on the dice
-Improve a reaction roll by the number on the dice.
These require the bard to know that their music will be useful ahead of time (no use using the music after a save's failed, for example), and to have the opertunity to play. IE, you'd roll bardic music to pump up your saves vs hypnosis BEFORE going into a fight with a vampire, rather than the bard strumming away mid-battle.
It makes the bard another build for the Specialist, and has a slightly mystical feel without treading on other classes toes.
>>46380694
>yes but having the bard playing the lute SO WELL that they inspire all their allies to fight harder, in the middle of a gritty battle, instead of fighting... is dumb as hell.
The bard as an adventuring class is dumb as hell. Bards and monks can fuck off and go home.
>>46380540
>Easier for players to construct a square-by-square reproduction of your map
Counterpoint: diagonal passages and rooms, and odd-shaped rooms and passages (e.g. every single cavern).
Also, of course, using large maps, teleporting hallways, shifting rooms/walls, surprise elevators, one-way doors, and all the other fun tricks that are out there to make mapping a challenge.
Squares for constructed areas, hexes for more open/natural areas, and gridless for maps where that's not really a relevant way to approach the situation (e.g. city maps).
Actual gameplay is fully "theater of the mind" with only the DM having a complete copy of the map, obviously - if the players have access to the map through a battlemap or whatever, being worried about mapping is a moot point!
>>46380694
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_music
Its not unheard of. Music has been used to inspire soldiers, lead attacks and create distraction in war for centuries. Adding modifiers to AC and Attacks and Morale etc is simply a way of translating it into game form. It is fantasy after all.
>>46380994
Large scale battles are one thing, but if you're a bunch of six idiots sneaking in a dungeon full of evil, hostile critters, playing music instead of fighting sounds just about the absolute worst thing you could possibly do.
>>46380952
>Talking shit about rockerboys
>>46359301
What's up with Deep Carbon Observatory?
I've seen people trying to get me to buy it everywhere.
>>46381351
No clue, personally. I've heard of it but never looked into it
>>46380952
>>yes but having the bard playing the lute SO WELL that they inspire all their allies to fight harder
musical magic and battle music are ancient traditions mate.
Bands were used in actual war.
So I don't see how having a drummer or flutist using magical music to help his allies is any more ridiculous then a priests prayer closing their wounds.
>>46381116
>if you're a bunch of six idiots sneaking in a dungeon full of evil, hostile critters, praying to some god/throwing flaming batshit instead of fighting sounds just about the absolute worst thing you could possibly do.
>>46372725
neat, are you going to do a version of this with the place names added back in like the first version you posted?(maybe add some names for the 2 or 3 places you didn't name the first time around)
also as for encounter density, could just have those represent ones that are permanently there, while in other hexes you randomly roll like normal(but adding a couple more fixed encounters probably isn't a bad idea)
>>46381351
Maybe I'll make a separate thread asking about it. I went through a lot of recent reviews amd noticed it kept popping up everywhere osr was mentioned.
>>46381351
It's in the trove under LotFP, download it and take a look.
>>46380027
It's not, but VEEEEEERY similar.
>>46380694
I had been considering exactly that.
My LotFP setup includes Chirurgy (Medicine) and Arcana (look up Ten Foot Polemic's arcana skill) skills already. I was planning to add Inspire to my list and have it function as follows:
X-in-6. During a battle, you can take your whole turn to try to inspire your friends and allies. Roll on a d6. If you roll equal to or under your number of dots, you can use the die result as a modifier that will benefit all of your allies within earshot. Choose one of the following:
> Attack rolls
> Damage
> AC
> Bonus to saving throws against fear or mind-affecting spells
> Morale roll for NPCs
This applies to all relevant characters within thirty feet. Alternatively, it can target enemies using the reverse (penalty to instead of bonus).
The modifiers last from the beginning of the character's action until they take their action in the following turn. If they choose to continue, they can maintain it indefinitely each round until they are attacked.
I deliberately chose it to be "Inspire" rather than music, both because the original bard archetype was a poet/orator.. but also because I like the idea of a character being able to choose whether they are playing an instrument, giving impassioned speeches, barking orders, etc.
>>46385142
>>46380027
>>46385142
to be fair a lot of fantasy continents look like Lodoss(and incidentally a lot like Australia or North America) in shape
>>46385734
Or Europe/Mediterranean.
>>46385714
Huh, I didn't realize Lodoss's setting was that detailed...
>>46365722
yellow cellophane was easier
https://github.com/Stumpbeard/LLCharGen
Made a really basic console app to roll a level 1 Labyrinth Lord character. I haven't gotten around to picking spells or inventory yet, but the rest of the stuff is there. If you don't want to compile from source there's a link to download the exe in the readme.
Sorry it says Labyrinth Lord is a BECMI clone, I'm pretty sure it's actually B/X.
>>46387622
You are a good person, anon!
>>46386934
It was a roleplaying setting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Record_of_Lodoss_War
>>46378073
>ever again
"Until you gain a level", surely.
>>46378073
>>46388299
I believe he was referring to the target, as in once you failed to turn a particular zombie, you can't ever try to turn those same zombies again.
Personally I think its a fine enough rule, but I also think its quite funny if once the Cleric gets to level 20 some evil lich assembles an army of all the undead he failed to turn when he was a shitty low level character and uses them now to assault his abbey.
>>46389083
SAISPH? Not making that shit into an acronym shows a real lack of commitment. How am I supposed to be frightened off by something with such lackluster execution?
I'm having a really tough time deciding what my first game/session should be about. First time running /osr/ by the way, but I have a lot of GM experience.
Basically my first and most evocative idea is to set the situation in a burning city, currently being torn apart by barbarian raiders. The players are not here to save it, they are here to scavenge whatever the raiders are leaving behind so hopefully they can sell it. What for? Even that I am not sure of. Any ideas?
>>46389448
I'd actually recommend you look up a classic model like B2. OSR is almost as much about a certain style of gaming as it is about certain mechanical flavor, in my opinion.
What is the best OSR setting that has a good sort of "lonely horror" setting. Kind of how the Dark Souls series is portrayed.
A cyclical world where the mighty rulers of the land are long gone. Travelling to these lonely ruins will often end in the loss of your emotion, sanity, and very humanity, but ancient secrets and treasures are hidden around every corner.
>>46389642
Without excellent narration and player invesent, it will end poorly.
>>46389642
The story shouldn't be exactly like the Souls series, just the setting.
>>46373990
I was thinking about not having a "main" big bad, and just having a bunch of lesser badguys, but I suppose that would mean my campaign wouldn't really have an endgame. Do you think that would work for a sandbox game, or should I have some kind of end planned?
>>46375597
>>46375735
>>46377445
>>46377498
Thanks for the responses, I'll try to figure something out.
>>46380027
I didn't watch Lodoss yet, so it's purely coincidental. I did plan the island to be similar to something you'd find in an old JRPG though, with cryptic clues and weird monsters.
>>46383150
This is an updated version. The reason why I didn't just name everything in the first version was because it was supposed to be places that "had" names.
I've marked some more encounters (writing them all out will be a pain...), but I'm still not quite sure it's enough, especially around the west area. Does anyone have some decent hexmaps so I could compare?
>>46390561
what the hell is with this name
So, megadungeons. How deep should alternate entrances go?
>>46390561
>but I suppose that would mean my campaign wouldn't really have an endgame
No, that would mean your campaign would be player-driven right to the end, rather than switching gears from sandbox to linear halfway.
>>46389087
think of it as like taking a little bit of poison every day to build up a resistance
>>46391685
Depends. I'd go for two on opposite sides of the first level, maybe a hidden one that goes down to the third level (like hidden in a nearby shrine, needs some puzzling to open) and at least one that goes down way too far that's nearly impossible to open.
>>46393995
>and at least one that goes down way too far that's nearly impossible to open.
That kind of defeats the point, dunnit? Deep entrances are more so that higher-level parties have ways to quickly get down into the lower levels (and out again), after all.
All you need to do is have the entrance be somewhat hidden so that you're most likely to just find it through the other end inside the dungeon - there's no real need to make it hard to open, I don't think.
>>46394680
And hell, if players want to journey into parts of the dungeon that are too powerful for then let them. They know the risks, and they can decide if it's worth it.
>>46390561
neat
For big dangerous multi-leveled dungeons.. Why do the mean critters stay on the lower floors? What keeps them there? What do they do all day? (..what do they eat down there?)
Whenever I try to design a dungeon, I always get hung up on this kind of stuff.
>>46398412
>Why do the mean critters stay on the lower floors? What keeps them there?
Depends on the dungeon. If it's of the "mad archmage" style, then that's a reason in and of itself (hence why it's a useful excuse) - it could also be because of general mythic things regarding down=bad and the Underworld/Hades/Hell and whatnot, or it could be because that's their natural habitat, or it could be because they just don't see a reason to go up for whatever reason, or it could be because they CAN'T go up (perhaps they odn't know about the stairs).
Lots of options. Personally I prefer the "mad archmage" thing, since you don't need to try to make a dungeon make sense. Because they generally don't.
>What do they do all day?
Whatever they want, I'd imagine. I can't see someone saying "no" to a Balrog twice.
Really, though, it depends on the dungeon. Do they just live their lives? Do Balrogs have beds and libraries and gladiatorial arenas?
This is another thing where you either need to really think about it or not think about it at all. I'd suggest meditating over which method would work out better in actual play, though.
>(..what do they eat down there?)
Beyond the obvious answer of "adventurers", there's the other obvious answer of "each other". Also, various other sources of food such as sacrifices from upper levels, weaker wandering monsters, convenient and mysterious underground fungus forests, and all the other fun fantasy dungeon ecology stuffits.
If you do work something about about this, try to work it into dungeon politics. Group A likes B and wars with C but is deathly afraid of D 'cause they eat them.
Also, by the way, go read the Dungeon Meshi manga for some inspiration on the topic of dungeon cuisine.
>>46398681
And the other image.
>>46398412
>Why do the mean critters stay on the lower floors?
so, the deeper you go, the more dangerous it is even before we bring monsters into it. More likely cave-ins, less good air, more lava etc etc. So, in very broad terms, if you assume most monsters start at the surface and go down into the dungeon (in the same way as adventurers) they'll eventually hit a depth where any deeper is too dangerous for them, so they'll set up their base-camp there. Once this trend has started, it's self-reinforcing, with weak monsters only being able to get to the first level before being scared off/killed, and stronger ones being able to get deeper before Bad Shit happens.
Think of it like a fighting tournament; in the first round you'll come up against all kinds of weaklings, but by the time you make the quarter-finals, everybody who got that far is pretty hard, and the semi-finals and finals will be even more dangerous.
>>46389480
Man what is wrong with this general?
Every attempt at creativity, every question on what could be added new or even just for ideas for adventurers are shot done and replaced with ancient modules and 'by the book' RAW attitude.
I think you people want to play video games more then you want to play tabletop games. There are plenty of them out there that conform to your style of game. Leave the rest of us out of it.
>>46398412
>Whenever I try to design a dungeon, I always get hung up on this kind of stuff.
you shouldn't
the players will never worry about that shit, and neither should you. Anyone asks just say "magic, I ain't gotta explain shit"
>>46401294
There are plenty of them out there that conform to your style of game. Leave the rest of us out of it.
You're right, there are plenty of games that conform to that style of play, and those are the games we discuss here, because that's what OSR is. Maybe you should find a game that does what you're looking for?
>>46401472
Oops, fucked up the green text.
Can anyone give me an AC conversion chart for LotFP so I can run B/X and LL adventures with it?
Also, how easy is it to run B/X and LL modules with LotFP?
>>46401863
I don't have the conversion chart, but B/X AC 9 is equal to Lamentations AC 12 if that helps.
>>46401294
I'm not sure if you're new or just a troll, but most of OSR shit is house-rules. Even if someone tried to pull a "by the book" "RAW" attitude, there are literally dozens of OSR games to choose from that all do things in subtly different ways.
> Every attempt at creativity, every question on what could be added new or even just for ideas for adventurers are shot done
You didn't present "an attempt at creativity." You asked people for their ideas. They recommended you check out some pre-existing modules for ideas, particularly if it's your first time running OSR.
>>46394680
>>46394680
Yeah, I fucked up - I meant to say find for that one
>>46402052
OSRG has always been a hotbed of houseruling and ideas. However, a lot of the time, since these games tend to be pretty cross-compatible, it's easy to just tell people 'yeah, use X rule from Y game' and cobble what you want together from existing games rather than inventing new mechanics for the sake of it. We're tinkerers, not inventers, if that makes sense?
>>46401294
These "ancient modeules" are still recommended today because they're good. And he didn't say "use this and don't ever make stuff up" he said "look b2 up so you can get inspiration".
as an aside, I love your silly idea that there are a lot of video games out there that conform to OSR style. I wish that was true. Even the recent modern dungeon-crawler revival still suffers from shit dungeon design. pillars of eternity was specially disappointing in that aspect.
>>46402525
> We're tinkerers, not inventers, if that makes sense?
I wouldn't even necessarily draw that conclusion. I see people offering brand new stuff on these threads - different combat house rules, new classes and conversions, magic items, dungeon maps.
But yeah, there's literally more material out there for OSR stuff than anyone will ever live long enough to play.
> Best OSR games that aren't traditional fantasy?
Also, does Traveller count as old school?
>>46403783
While Traveller is old school as fuck, "OSR" specifically is more about the playstyle associated with early TSR D&D. Which, understandably, is a bit different from some other old-school playstyles.
There's been some arguments in these threads on the topic, though.
Also, of course, "old school" is a broad enough term that I've seen some forums that include 3E in that group.
bumping with a sweet Hex Map I found in my images folder that I had forgotten about
>>46403920
>Also, of course, "old school" is a broad enough term that I've seen some forums that include 3E in that group.
Wasn't the emergence of 3e what prompted the backlash that eventually coalesced into osr? This seems, to my mind, very wrong.
>>46403783
>Best OSR games that aren't traditional fantasyMy homebrew. Totes. It's got cavemen.
I'm also a big fan of Hulks and Horrors, which does SPACE ADVENTURES with a sort of unpretentious blend of grit and silliness to it. It feels like Red Dwarf, almost.
>>46401863
>>46402042
Here's this table. A quick and dirty way to do it (that should land you within 1 AC of what you'd get using the table) is to subtract the Basic AC from 21 to get your LotFP AC. If you're converting from AD&D, use the same formula unless your AC is 7 or worse, in which case subtract from 22 instead of 21. Or just say say "fuck it" and stick with the Basic AC formula the entire way. The original Monster Manual uses the Basic D&D scale, after all, since Gygax changed the scale only after it was done.
>>46401294
I present my homebrew rules all the time--in several posts in this very thread, in fact--and have seldom gotten a negative response, at least not on balance. Sometimes I get ignored, but you can't reasonably expect other people to always be interested in your shit.
>>46367060
I suppose it just made it a little less convenient to bootleg the whole module.
Sort of like ripping a DVD in 2003...
Bump
>>46398412
Honestly, I've always wondered this, though mechanically speaking it shouldn't be thought about too much.
Why would the stronger monsters be on the bottom? where only the strongest adventurers reach? wouldn't you think the stronger and smarter monsters would subjugate the weak ones and force them to live further down, where food ultimately won't get to them? The strong ones waiting on top for weak wanderers as easy meat.
On the other hand, you could simply turn it on it's head and say the weak monsters living so close to the surface slay weak journeyers and pay them a tribute so they don't come up and eat all them.
>>46407483
May favorite dungeon of all time.
>Those kobolds can fuck up everyone in that place.
>>46405695
It emerged from the OGL, and maybe by the fact that older editions are fading from memory.
I remember buying a full set of AD&D books for maybe ten dollars apiece after 3e came out. Now they're just starting to be treated like collectibles.
Regardless, the core of the games became available for independent developers to tinker with.
The OSR is kind of fascinating in that way... it's a bit of a rebellion against the monoculture of WotC D&D, but it's also fueled by a bit of nostalgia for the days when D&D was the only tabletop RPG on the shelf, and everybody played with the same conventions and aesthetics in mind. You've got conservative grognards who reference Gygax essays in Dragon sitting elbow to elbow with kids who turn B/X or OD&D into their own crazy gonzo ratrod game.
>>46407556
Indeed. Personal favorite thing was my DM ran it and had cultists escape so we followed them out of the caves. The DM then ran B4 The Lost City but dropped the references to the desert and simply made it apparent that the party had chased them to a ruined city (and a trap!) and we had to flee to what appeared the only safe place, the pyramid.
We didn't even learn until later that he had swapped out modules!
>>46408784
Ha, yes. I always make the kobolds the most demeaned and bullied race in the caves, too docile to do anything more than fend off adventurers that enter their cave. The rest of the monsters have varying alliances with one another, some tighter than others, but the kobolds no one likes. If the party goes to them first, they can convince the leader to rebel, ad sweep through each and every cave, full force, and slaughter everyone.
The party doesn't even need to be there, if they did something like this, I'd give them XP for every kill the kobolds made, and they get to witness and loot the graveyard the oppressed kobolds made.
>>46389087
>I believe he was referring to the target
Yes? So do I? What else could I possibly have meant but "you can try turning the same zombie again when you gain a new level"? Did you think I read him to mean that once you fail to turn a zombie you can *never turn a zombie again, ever*? What?
What's the coolest magic item any of your characters ever received in an OSR game?
Had a game once where my character got a flying tower. Problem was he had little to no clue how to operate it and (after a rough landing) he got out and looked up at it. It had crashed in the middle of his town (we were level 17 or so and we were using the domain rules) in the dead of night. He took out the command rod, had the magic-user in the party cast some spells to hide the fact that there was a spot inside it to fly it. Told the town it was supposed to be a might tower to mark his reign in his domain but the magic-user had screwed up a spell erecting it. And thus the Leaning Tower of Misana became a thing.
>>46390561
loving the names for these locations, mind going into more detail about them?
>>46409488
>Did you think I read him to mean that once you fail to turn a zombie you can *never turn a zombie again, ever*?
that's what I meant, though
>>46410199
Why wouldn't you be able to turn a zombie twice? It's a zombie. It's not capable of higher thought. I doubt it even has a short-term memory beyond holding a string of directives and repeating them until destruction or redirection. Who's to say they don't immediately forget there's been an attempt to turn it?
I like to think turning an undead gives it a glimpse of it's former life or something similar, they frightens it temporarily. When the turning effect ends, it looses that glimpse and returns back to a thoughtless soulless vessel. The actual turning is an attempt to break the negative-energy barrier that keeps the thing moving.
>>46398681
>>46398412
I find it very easy to answer in general -- higher levels have more turnover and more traffic. The bottom levels seem mostly extraplanar beings, undead, old dragons, constructs, and weird shit, and have the most fantastic treasure.
So I imagine that to be the original purpose.
The higher level riffraff tend to be brutal humanoids & giants, mindless vermin, lower tier undead, and so forth. Probably the whole dungeon was originally of the same overall "level" but the higher level creatures were killed off in greater number and the treasures more frequently stolen.
>>46407483
>>46407556
My players, quite simply, found the trap of the kobolds (via the elven scout) and went NOPE and left for easier pastures.
>>46407702
Alfonso, there may be some nostalgia, but I find it unlikely that nostalgia is more than 10% or so -- how old could the average age of 4channers possibly be?
>>46410453
Egh, and "Higher level" meaning of the dungeon.
>>46410468
What pussies, lol. My rogue would be ready to sell them the entire caves of chaos for the blood of their enemies.
>>46410591
>What pussies, lol.
They're actually pretty smart, considering koboldville is simultaneously one of the nastiest places in the Caves of Chaos while having the least rewards.
There's also not exactly much a thief can do about the pit trap, as unless you have a 10' or whatever long plank and feel confident in walking across while kobolds are attacking (and something insane like 80 giant rats charge you as well).
>>46368519
Even DCC is easy on them. They get their first level roll AND their 1d4 peasant health.
>>46407483
I've tried playing this as a LotFP adventure for a couple weeks now and it's going so very slow.
>>46401294
>I think you people want to play video games more then you want to play tabletop games
than
>>46409993
okay.
Barrier Hills are the hills separating the area around Seleci from everything else. Lizard-beasts live here, but other than them it's pretty safe.
The Devil Forest is a nasty place, where the wildlife is almost twice as big as everywhere else. People rarely escape it alive, so it's not really explored at all, which means that it is involved in a lot of scary rumors. Sometimes people see strange hooded figures here, but they have never caught any of them.
The Floodlands are pretty boring and too far from Seleci to actually bother working. The land is extremely fertile though, so halflings often transport soil back home.
Man-Killer Plain is home to the Terror Panthers (the name is pretty self-explanatory). These panthers rarely venture out of the plain in groups, but they always walk in at least pairs while they're inside, as if they were protecting something.
The edges of the Halfling Plain are dangerous, but the hills in the center are strangely safe. The halflings have a town here, called Halfling-town, where they enjoy a calm and cozy life. The halflings have discovered quite a few ancient ruins around here.
Shelm Swamps were bought by an old noble named Shelm for the last of his fortune. There have been attempts by his descendants to work the land, but the Snake-Men and Swamplurks stopped that pretty quickly. Shelm was an avid fan of the occult, so it's theorized that the swamps have some kind of amazing magic hidden in them.
The Land of Spooks was named by halfling children for the low-pitched sounds coming from the shrubland at night. Some consider the area to be haunted, some cursed, but no one has ever proposed an expedition there.
>>46411803
cont.
Contrary to the name, Willow Woods don't actually have that many willows in them. They are pretty bountiful and pretty safe, compared to the rest of the island. Strange blue-skinned savages are sometimes spotted here, but no contact has been made so far. There has been some suspicion that the fishing-hamlet of Marak had been trading with them, due to their sudden influx of ancient tablets and trinkets.
The Old Men's Grave, named by the forest-gatherers of Marak, is a half-flooded area of the forest. It seems a battle took place here, hundreds of years ago, since the place is full of ancient remains of bodies and weapons. No one dares to venture in deeper, because some of the bodies still move.
Ronald's Lands belong to Ronald T. Hacke, one of the richest merchants living in Seleci. It's a fertile land, but the spooky forest in the north scares off most workers. There have been some talk of outlaws hiding in the area, but Hacke wouldn't confirm.
I don't really know how to make the Dock Hills interesting, so it will probably just be a generic "boring" area until I get some inspiration. Nature's Fortress is supposed to be some kind of Super-Australia, and the Frog-God's domain would be the "weird shit happens here" place. The Foggy Island will probably house a mega-dungeon of some sort. That's about all I've got so far, but it should be enough.
>>46385734
That's partially because they both fit well in a horizontal frame. Anon's continent is literally a rectangle.
>>46410485
I'm talking about the OSR in general, not just the fans who post here...
And nostalgia certainly plays a role in it for me, and I'm only in my 20's--I got a 1e AD&D players handbook from a relative when I was in elementary school.
>>46411409
For our group it's going slow as well... We've spent almost 10 sessions on the Caves of Chaos while it's supposed to be done in one, I think...
>>46412673
Nah, B2 is one of those adventures that's supposed to take a while. Lots of trips into the caves and wilderness, lots of interaction with the locals in the Keep.
There's even guidelines for how the caves are restocked and change between sessions!
>>46412673
When I went through it it took out group four months, and we went through 30 characters, and these were AD&D characters not Basic. It's a big, tough adventure.
>>46412673
Took my group about 6 sessions before we finished it, so it can take some time.
why did Raggi make firearms only shoot like, once a fight? They don't do much more damage than a crossbow, and the only real advantage is the moral check for enemies.
>>46414280
Realism, probably. Guns historically took time to reload and fire (that's a reason why soldiers used to just line up in formation and take turns moving forward and then firing before falling back to reload)
>>46414280
a) because realistically, reloading a gun in that era takes for-fucking-ever
b) buying multiple guns (particularly pistols) is something to funnel your money into; historically, people often did carry a spare gun rather than bothering reloading in mid-combat
c) that morale check is a /big/ factor. Also iirc guns deal with armour better than crossbows?
d) a high-dexterity fighter with a high-quality gun can reload it in the same time it would take to reload a crossbow.
Just my thoughts.
>>46414627
>>46414608
good enough reasons for me
Hey there! I was looking through the trove and I didn't see dragon magazine 270 In there. Did I miss it or does anyone have it?
>>46415685
Isn't 270 3E era? Definitely late-2E at the latest, so either way it wouldn't be in the Trove.
in LotFP, it says that (most) spells are cast at "the beginning of the next round" with the current round being solely devoted to the act of casting.
Is this implying the next person's round in the initiative succession, or the next round of that Magic-User?
>>46416027
Its definitely late AD&D. The trove goes up to 250, or I thought maybe it was filed away somewhere else. I can't find this damn issue!
>>46415685
I have a copy that I got in a "every Dragon ever" torrent some while ago, but it's 120MB. I'll upload it for you, though.
>>46416027
>Definitely late-2E at the latest
*at the earliest, doh
>>46416195
Awesome! Up to the trove? Or on its own. Thanks so much!
>>46416125
People don't individually have rounds. People have turns. It means the beginning of the next combat round, so, for example:
>Initiative is rolled
>Fighter charges
>M-U casts spell
>Goblins attack
>Wolf attacks
>Cleric charges
>Round ends; new round
>Initiative is rolled
>M-U's spell takes effect
and so on.
>>46416436
I'm not Troveguy, so you'll have to be alright with just a link to it.
>https://mega.nz/#!YcZwybYJ!f4T9nrJiiIvIA84aDKs7GJnkWEFu-qm0_or-06qzb4M
>>46416569
Thanks again!
random module dump.
>>46416694
>>46416734
>>46416447
Gotcha. So each turn is part of a round, and rounds are divisible by 6 turns.
but if I have more than 6 characters battling, how would you carry over their turns from their initiative roll? like, say i have 4 PCs and 3 Baddies. Would the 7th person in the initiative line just not get to take an action that round, or do they carry over and go first the next round?
Sorry if this seems dense, but I've never really played a game where initiative was rolled more than once at the beginning of an encounter.
>>46381351
>>46382124
>>46383916
I read it, didn't DM it yet though. It has a very unique style, being the work of Scrap Princess and Patrick Stuart. It's written in a way that make you piece together the whole thing along the way, without ever having to read bigass piles of text. It's evocative in a very cool way, it's bleak and dark but not edgy, feels a bit like a grim fairy tale. It has humor, too. I like it, but I think it's probably love/hate thing, cause it has a very specific way of conveying setting information and the drawings are all scribbly stuff, so it's great if you're into something that looks patchwork-y and amateur-ish but actually isn't. It's not if you like things neat and tightly packed.
>>46414280
>>46414627
>>46414725
if I recall, they also ignore some AC On plate armor. Wasn't it -5AC or something, to a minimum of 12?
>>46416901
>rounds are divisible by 6 turns.
What? No. Everyone gets a turn to act in each round.
But also, I just realized that LotFP might have group initiative, not individual? Can some other anon help out here so I don't confuse this poor guy even worse?
>>46417895
In LotFP, you may use group initiative (D6 vs D6) or individual initiative, which is also D6, with ties going to the better Dex (or D6+Dex mod.)
Since I went for Group initiative, I never went back.
>>46405523
God. This. This is the shit I have always needed.
Thanks so much dude/dudette.
I'm going to be streaming an OSR game on twitch/uploading to youtube. Probably going to tour some old modules on a weekly basis. What should I run?
>>46418205
Chaotic caves, keep on the borderlands
>>46418002
Group initiative is so much easier, but I like to stagger things somewhat so the first group to go doesn't get a huge boost. Like, each person in the first group rolls a d6 and on 1-3 it gets to go one the first round, and on a 4-6 he doesn't. Or, if you wanted to be really fancy, the second group doesn't automatically go either, but gets the better of two rolls, while the first gets the worse of two. Either way, at the end of a given team's turn, it will be half a round up on the other team, assuming everybody rolls average.
>>46418002
>Group initiative
>party loses initiative
>MU is dead meat automatically, hit by all the ranged attacks
>party wins initiative
>fight is easy as fuck
Nah man
nah
>>46418623
Well, you're not wrong.
But then again, in the Ye Olde Times groups were bigger.
>>46418623
There are ways to mitigate this. See >>46418388 for instance.
>>46418339
Was thinking similar. Can't decide what game to run though. I'm torn between LotFP, LL, S&W whitebox (maybe with White Box Heroes), and raw Bx
>>46418733
>>46418695
I prefer rolling initiative for everyone at the start of a fight. There's still a chance of "everyone rolls shit and gets fucked" or "all the enemies roll shitty, easy fight", but it's not guaranteed.
>>46416901
No no. Everyone rolls a d6. Whoever got 6s goes first. Then the 5s. Then the 4s etc. If there are ties, the DEX modifier decides who goes first.
>>46420332
That's a really overly complex way of saying "roll a d6. Biggest number goes first"
>>46420407
The dude thought there were only 6 turns per round. Just making it clear as day.
Can someone explain the quick and dirty difference between Swords & Wizardry and Labyrinth Lords?
>>46421080
Quick and dirty? Swords and Wizardry is based on OD&D, and Labyrinth Lord is based on B/X.
>>46421301
this reminds me
now can someone explain to me (a different person) the quick and dirty difference between OD&D and B/X and BECMI?
>>46420442
That does seem a tad silly. I, personally, just have my players do it like in more modern games: roll d20, add/subtract Dex mod, go in order. If tied, who has the highest level or Int or Wis?
Lamentations of the Flame Princess house rules?
>>46417133
I'm intrigued...
Moar?
>>46422592
Lv. 1 get max health.
Dual wielding just uses a dagger ect as a defensive weapon (so +1 Melee AC only).
>>46422592
If using a shield and hit with a melee attack for max damage you can break the shield to take half damage
>>46422592
No running "Fuck For Satan"
>>46421370
Basic D&D and AD&D both derive from OD&D, only AD&D carries on the legacy of OD&D with all the supplements, whereas Basic draws from OD&D with very little of the supplement material (mainly just stuff from Greyhawk). Whereas in base-level OD&D, race and class are technically separate, dwarves and halflings can only be fighters (so they might as well be race classes), and elves can choose between being a fighter or magic-user at the beginning of each adventure (which is just a screwy way of doing a fighter/magic-user race class). Once they added thieves in Greyhawk, this changed a little, but you can see how Basic takes the core stuff from OD&D and streamlines it.
Base-level OD&D had weapon damage and hit dice as d6s (though hit dice did increase at a different rate, so that a fighter has 2d6 hit dice at the same level that magic-users have 1d6+1). But Greyhawk introduced variable hit dice and weapon damages, the first of which Basic took as standard, and the second of which is presented as an option in Basic (after Holmes Basic, at least), albeit without the differing damage between man-sized and large opponents.
Of course, even if the Basic line is a continuation of the simple end of OD&D, the game continues to develop, and BECMI expands the game with stuff like weapon mastery, and generally moves the game at least a bit in the direction of AD&D in terms of complexity. But if you're comparing Basic and OD&D, the main thing you have to ask yourself is "which OD&D?" Because if it's the little brown books with Greyhawk, Basic is much the same game, at least in terms of material. Basic is, however, presented in a much more complete and comprehensible manner.
>>46425843
and what about becmi and b/x
>>46418815
Well, >>46418388 can result in all of one team going before the other. It's just simpler to keep track of who goes when, and therefore faster. You also don't get weird shit like people wanting to hold their turns because otherwise they'll get screwed over by going first, for one reason or another. On the first round, for the team that goes first it's "did you roll high enough to go?" in all other cases everybody on a team goes when it's that team's turn (in whatever order works best).
>>46425955
why not just ignore initiative completely and go on a Players go Monsters go basis?
>>46425954
B/X covers levels 1-14 only and is 128 pages for the entirety of the game.* The BE part of BECMI retreads the same material, but differs in presentation and format (particularly the Basic Set, which presents thing in a learn-as-you-play format that I honestly think makes things harder to learn and for damn sure makes things much harder to reference).** BECMI also separates each set (except Expert) into two different books, so once you include everything, it's 450 or so pages split between 9 different books, as compared to B/X, which is 128 pages split between only 2. And in order to fill those extra pages, BECMI gives you more rules for different things and, like I said, starts inching the game in the direction of AD&D (though some of the difference in page count just comes down to format, and repeating some stuff in both the DM's and Player's booklets).
*To be fair, it was originally intended for B/X to continue on with a Companion set. They just decided to start over with BECMI, for some reason. Still, thief skills are stretched out over only 14 levels rather than 36.
**Though even after the Basic set, I find BECMI much, much harder to sift through. It's just organized in what I consider an asinine way. Instead of presenting the classes in alphabetical order, and then doing spells in a different section, it presents the human classes first, then the demihuman ones, and puts the spells right in with the class, which means you can't just thumb through the class section (because once you include the spells in with the classes, it's like half the book).
>>46426022
To minimize the advantage of going first. If each member of the 1st team to go only has a 50% chance to act on the 1st round, that puts the teams on roughly even footing. If all of one team gets to act before the other does, that can be an incredible advantage.
>>46426267
It should be mentioned that the Rules Cyclopedia is basically a reference-friendly version of BECMI (without the "I" part though), and is some 300 pages in a single book.
Aside from just expanding the rules, BECMI and RC make some tweaks. They regularize the weird cleric spell progression that B/X inherited from OD&D, for instance, and are a bit more permissive with spells (in B/X you can only learn exactly as many spells as you can cast per day). Overall though, they are extremely similar, and BECMI is essentially just an expanded version of the same game with a really annoying format.
>>46425843
>>46421080
To make things even more complicated, Swords & Wizardry has three different variants: White Box, which is just the 3 core books (the little brown books), Core, which includes material form the Greyhawk supplement, and Complete, which includes stuff from all of the supplements. This means that S&W Core has some decent similarity to Labyrinth Lord, which is based on Basic, which is based on... you guessed it... OD&D with Greyhawk. At that point, it mainly comes down to how the retroclones interpret and tweak the rules of the original D&D editions they were based on. Overall, I find Labyrinth Lord a bit less junky than S&W Core, though I do far prefer the singe category saving throws that S&W pioneers.
>>46409913
This made me giggle
Just ran my second session of B2 ask me anything.
>>46428720
party makeup? did everyone have appropriate head gear?
>>46428720
any deaths?
How did your players handle the constant fighting that I thought would quickly drain any level 1 party resources way too quickly?
Did you players map the thing themselves?
Online or IRL?
I'm (probably) gonna be dming b2 myself next Friday.
>>46428927
No deaths. They made tight with some orcs last go round who rolled with them. Rolled super well. I also forgot bugbears were super tough. Self mapped with some help. Used a battle map. IRL.
What kind of character are you playing?
I'm my groups DM, so I never get to use any of my character builds. I have a Welsh, arquebus toting Specialist (Tinkering & Search boosts) for LotFP that I've yet to use.
>>46429017
oh yeah, I forgot, how many players, and any henchmen?
1. Tips on building a multi-level dungeon? Something that has enough content to take the pcs themselves from levels 1-3 or so before branching out into more of a hexcrawl.
2. Is it better to kill a PC, or maim them? Instead of instant death, I was playing with the idea of having 0HP be some kind of mordheim-esq "random terrible things" table. Death is a possibility, but so is losing an eye, a hand, breaking an arm, or other significantly bad but not deadly things. We're going to be running LotFP so it seems somewhat thematic.
>>46429187
for #2, If I know my player put a lot of work and love into making their character (and didn't just roll up a faceless stat machine), I usually just maim them with long-term effects, unless its an obvious "no shit yer dead" moment.
>>46429187
>Is it better to kill a PC, or maim them?
You could maybe give a bonus to folks who retire a character who is maimed (or for any other reason, for that matter). Like, their new characters get more XP to start out with than they otherwise would, or they can receive a greater/any inheritance of items and/or treasure. That way, the player has a reason to want his character to survive to the end of the adventure, even if he's badly fucked up, and is never in the undesirable position of wishing his character had died (or hoping that he will).
Alternately, you could even give the player a choice: do you want your character to die now so you can start over, or would you rather he live with this disability I just rolled?
>>46429073
four players, three orcs were henchmen. They got 50 sp a head and some "smiles."
>>46429072
this thread isn't for you
>>46429187
both create pathos, use your judgement and don't pretend that the rolls don't matter.
>>46429187
I love maiming anything and everything in my games, PC's and Monsters.
>>46429187
can you post the table of random terrible things?
>>46429338
>this thread isn't for you
>>46429375
is it a build thread?
>>46429441
it's an OSR thread. so yes, since they always include myriad topics.
>>46429373
The current one, though I'll probably tinker with it a bit more before implementation. This is mostly for melee, presently.
D20 | Effect
> 1-3 | Instant death from obvious source - decapitated, crushed, disemboweled
> 2-5 | He's dead Jim - Despite the efforts of their companions, they go into shock and 10-20 minutes after the wound is dealt.
> 5-8 | It's in God's Hands Now - Could go either way as the character bleeds out from their wounds. After d3 hours, they may make a CON roll. If they pass, they survive.
> 9 | Severe Head Trauma - roll a d4. They lose 2 points of either (1)Dex, (2)Intelligence, (3)Wisdom, (4) Charisma.
> 10-11 | Sucking Chest Wound - the character is in for a rough night, but will ultimately recover, albeit at the permanent loss of 1 point of Con.
> 12 | Arm Destroyed - part or whole arm was either sheered from the body, or so badly destroyed as to require amputation. Roll a d6 (1-2) the hand (3-4) at the elbow (5-6) at the shoulder. Odds is left, evens is right.
> 13 | Leg Destroyed - part or whole leg was either sheered from the body, or so badly destroyed as to require amputation. Roll a d6 (1-2) the foot (3-4) at the knee (5-6) at the hip. Odds is left, evens is right.
> 14-15 | Limb Fractured/Broken - Roll d4 to determine which, limb is badly injured or broken providing an inconvenience and -1 to any rolls using it until healed.
> 16 | All Fun and Games - The character loses an eye, reducing their ranged attack by 1.
> 17 | Ugly Stick - Damage to the face leaving them monstrously scarred. -2 Charisma for reaction checks and hiring NPCs.
> 18-19 | Gnarled and Scarred - Character earns a few new scars, and will take -1 to everything for the next 24 hours, but comes out no worse for the wear.
>20 | Sucker Punched - Character took a blow to the head that knocked them out, but they otherwise have no lasting effects.
>>46429540
>> 2-5 | He's dead Jim - Despite the efforts of their companions, they go into shock and 10-20 minutes after the wound is dealt.
>> 5-8 | It's in God's Hands Now - Could go either way as the character bleeds out from their wounds. After d3 hours, they may make a CON roll. If they pass, they survive.
what of the case of healing magic?
>>46429576
If someone could intervene before the character expired, it should heal normally. Though, with healing magic in play, I might want to give those results an additional effect.
>>46429373
>>46429540
DCC has some crit tables for enemies that could help you add some flavor.
Hey, I recall someone sharing a good piecemeal armor system on here. Anyone have it or know of a system with one?
>>46429651
!!!!
>>46429707
Well shit son, here's a collection reference of DCC's tables. Those start on page 52.
The PC crits are also worth a look to add some pizazz to your characters rolling their 20's.
DCC gets a lot of flack, but I love the shit out of what they do.
>>46429777
I thought the tables were mostly systemy clunk.There's some dope shit in here.
>>46429864
most of the tables, you'll reference once during character creation.
the rest are for special occasions: crits, magic failure/success, mighty-deeds (fighter flair).
What are your top 3 OSRs I should look into?
