Kyr Vhalen's Swear Jar Edition
Old thread >>46337197
HH Book 6 - Retribution PDF:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/8aqx9j3a8erqv8d/The_Horus_Heresy_Book_6_-_Retribution.pdf or
https://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fkat.cr%2Fthe-horus-heresy-book-6-retribution-pdf-t12199249.html
HHG FAQ - http://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
Official HH 7th Edition Errata (Updated January 2016) - http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_7th_Edition.pdf
Other official downloads: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads#horusheresy
HH Rules:
Crusade Army List: http://www.mediafire.com/download/1lprm5vd99yafa3/
Isstvan Campaign Legions: http://www.mediafire.com/download/deadtdf0y47k59k/
Mechanicum Taghmata Army List: https://mega.nz/#!LFwTjQ7B!mF0eVOY8P1MPT0a-QSXypXo_ZfskhYynD41PrkaTbD8
30k/40k Rules: https://mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ!EVh0GZZS
30k/40k Rules and more (torrents): https://kat.cr/usearch/%22Forge%20World%22%20heresy%20user:epistolary/
30k Black Library: https://mega.nz/#F!0RlxDZQC!qAu9BaubWa3KeihJRmOcsg
>>46355514
Might as well post here.
>>46355694
Orchestrators with CC gear is a bit counter-productive, I mean if the Kakos are in close combat then you fucked up and theyre getting fucked up no matter how much bling your squad leader has.
>>46355980
In my experience they end up tarpitting any charges that go off due to -1WS so i don't want to lose scrub challenges and route, but yeah that was meant to be a power weapon, not a phoenix spear.
>>46355694
While I don't mind the list it simply seems to be an inefficient use of third company elite. Third company elite lets you equip any unit for with shriekers for 2 points per dude. This could potentially be massive, hit before enemies and hit most enemies on a 3+. Give some regular terminators shriekers and get pseudo legion bodyguards as they effectively are WS 5 (-1 to enemies) and swing at initiative 5 on the charge. Also tacticals that hit most enemies on a 3+ like DA but still swing at I 5 on the charge like EC is a neat combo. Kakophoni seem like they would be great vs hordes, but against marines they seem lackluster.
>>46355243
Failed exactly ten times harder than the Iron Warriors?
>>46356423
>6 hours later
I know being in the right place at the right time ain't exactly your forte Rorgie, but come on.
>>46356423
No they purged themselves for failure.
>>46356329
Don't forget the pain glove.
>>46356507
The best offence is a good defence.
>>46356727
False. The best offence is in fact offence.
>>46356727
Well yes indeed, I find that huge ass aquila of yours offensive as fuck
>>46356834
It's not that big.
Anyone found a decent conversion bit for the White Scars power glaive?
Only one I've found thus far is the Kromlech Vibro-glaives, but they look a bit more grey-knighty than I'd personally like. Looking for more of a guan dao look...
>>46356348
>kakophoni
3.7 marines per volley (before leadership shenanigans) with 36" on a relentless, scoring unit that can also threaten vehicles in a pinch, served me better than tacticals in the few games I got in.
>Terminators
Phoenix blades to that at I6 and sweep(yes there are generic tartaros), score, and win ties.
You make good points, but nothing that sound like more than a side-grade.
>>46356898
Dorn is about 2.5m tall or so? Weeeell what can you do, silly pic is silly
Is this list truly this bad? Should I go Ironfire instead?+++ The Iron Brethren (2000pts) ++
++ Solar Auxilia (Allied Detachment) (275pts) ++
+ HQ (100pts) +
Legate Commander (100pts) [Artificer Armour (20pts), Iron Halo (10pts), Melta Bombs (5pts), Power Fist (15pts), Volkite Serpenta (5pts)]
+ Troops (125pts) +
Auxilia Infantry Tercio (125pts)
····Veletaris Storm Section (125pts)
········Prime (10pts) [Charnabal Sabre (5pts), Melta Bombs (5pts)]
+ Fast Attack (50pts) +
Tarantula Sentry Gun Battery (50pts) [Drop Capsule (20pts), Tarantula Sentry Gun (30pts)]
+ HQ (225pts) +
Legions Astartes
Legion Praetor (225pts) [Artificer Armour, Iron Halo (25pts), Melta Bombs (5pts), Paragon Blade (25pts), Servo-arm (35pts), Single Lightning Claw (20pts)]
+ Troops (590pts) +
Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple (250pts) [Castellax (105pts), Castellax (105) Enhanced Targeting Array (30pts), Frag Grenades (10pts)]
-Legion Tactical Squad (170pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines (90pts)
Sarge with Melta, power fist.
-Legion Tactical Squad (170pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines (90pts)]
Sarge with Melta, power fist.
+ Elites (495pts) +
Domitar Class Battle-automata Maniple (180pts) [Cybernetica Cortex, Domitar Class Battle-automata (175pts), Flak Missiles (5pts)]
Legion Dreadnought Talon (135pts)
Legion Rapier Weapons Battery (180pts)
····Legion Rapier Weapons Battery (60pts) [Quad Mortar] x3
+ Heavy Support (415pts) +
Legion Whirlwind Scorpius (125pts) [Extra Armour (10pts)]
Thallax Cohort (165pts) [3x Heavy Chainblade (15pts), Melta Bombs (15pts), 3x Thallax (120pts)]
Legion Astartes [IV: Iron Warriors, Traitor]
>>46355658
Imagedit anon, could you put a cigar as the source of the steam of Dreygur? I'd do it myself, but I'm afraid removing his mask would be extremely painful
>>46356958
That's probably the ceremonial aqulia. The one in the FW sketch is probably his work aqulia.
>>46355658
You couldn't wait huh? Thanks man
Any news if assassins will ever be added to HH? I want to add an allied detachment of Sisters of Silence and a few Culexus so I can bully all the local Magnus apologists
>>46357076
I think the Sisters will be enough. Otherwise you'll create a void in the Warp filled with bullying.
>>46357120
aka Prospero?
>>46357132
Nah. It was filled with 280% wolfing, 60% oiled abs, and 70% soulless bullying.
>>46354425
>Model the moritat in golden armour, black-haired, sullen-eyed, flaming sword in hand.
They warned me heresy would be tempting, but not like this
>>46357161
>Oiled abs
>Wolves'?
>1kSons'?
>SISTERS'?
>>46356942
>3.7 marines per volley
That really isn't that many, especially if you have to deal with blob marines. 3.7 a turn vs a 20 man blob takes 5.45 turns assuming they don't have FnP. The leadership thing is nice but isn't that useful against high leadership units. Plus 10 Kakophoni aren't a really steadfast unit.
I mean Kakophoni are useful but they seem like they would be better as support units than the backbone of an army as they lack sheer numbers or extreme lethality. I would probably use tacticals as the backbone of an army using kakophoni to fuck with low leadership hordes.
>Terminators
>5 Phoenix Guard costs 265 points
>5 Terminators with sonic shriekers costs 185 points
Sure they don't get Phoenix Spears but you could easily give them fists or axes for super cheap pseudo legion terminators
>>46357263
Custodes
>>46357279
Oh, right. I always picture pre-ascencion Custodes as banana kitten
>>46356795
Under what circumstances?
>>46357048
>Ceremonial Aquila
>Work Aquila
kek
I wonder what his sleeptime aquila and beach aquila look like
According to Book 5: Tempest, up to two units can embark/disembark from the Gorgon transport in a single turn. Does this mean the Gorgon can carry two units? Otherwise what is the point of this rule?
>tfw the potential for legionnaires hiding behind cultist meatshields in a single gorgon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82RTzi5Vt7w
>>46357344
The sleeping one comes with a power pillow and alarm clock. The beach one comes with a bucket and shovel and sunblock.
>>46357048
>work Aquila
Fuckin lol'd
>>46357306
If your custodes models aren't actually going to be dripping with oil, you aren't doing custodes right.
>>46357370
The sleeping one IS the power pillow.
>>46357360
Super-heavies can carry multiple units.
>>46357379
Having an aquila made for any possible situation is the key to going above and beyond the call of duty at being a Grade A loyalist.
>>46357416
>is the power pillow
How could I have been so blind?
>>46357360
>"Potentially" hiding legionnaries behind IM
Anon, that's what levy squads are for. I'll have 4 full 50-man of them, hold the pickles
>>46357275
>That really isn't that many
better than tacticals, and better percentage than tacticals, while being more on theme.
>Terminators
If I'm springing for them over palatines then they are there to win versus something competent, and 2+.
Doesn't matter if they are almost half the price if they can't do the job.
>>46357360
Read rules regarding super-heavy transports.
Too bad Gorgon is only available as DT, so no starting several units inside it, extra units have to board during gameplay.
>>46357342
All of them. A good defence isn't offence or it wouldn't be called defence obviously
>>46357342
A defense that is also the best offense? I call it "The Iron Cage"
>>46357686
>>46357624
I'm sure EC could come up with some pretty offensive defences.
>>46357784
Offensive doesn't even begin to cover it.
>>46357686
hmph... nice battle barge you got there...
would be a shame if somebody were to requisition it for the imperial fists..
How much do you guys differentiate your squads? Do you write any fluff for your squads or just the army in general? Pic related, there's marines from my three terror squads.
>>46356727
Wrong. The best offense is rape.
Any idea when the secutarii are hitting the webstore? I want me some 30k skitarii.
>>46357468
>better than tacticals, and better percentage than tacticals, while being more on theme.
Tacticals are a hell of a lot more steadfast and cheaper though. Not gonna argue on theme, that is a legitimate reason for doing things and if you really love Kakophoni go for it, I am simply saying that if I was to use them I would use them more for support, eg. two units of tacticals as the backbone to camp on and seize objectives and the kakophoni can be used to ripping up any light infantry that happen to exist.
>Doesn't matter if they are almost half the price if they can't do the job.
They can act much more like workhorses and being pseudo legion elites makes them a scary prospect. Think of it like this.
>8 terminators with power axes and sonic shriekers
>5 Phoenix guard with sonic shriekers
Both charging 5 WS 5 terminators with power fists (assuming 2 attacks each, 3 for sarge)
>8 terminators with power axes and sonic shriekers
Both strike at same time
>EC terminators score 12 hits, 8 wounds, 4 unsaved wounds (assume 4+ invul)
>Opponent swings at same initiative 5.5 hits, 4.6 wounds, 3 unsaved wounds (assume 5+ invul)
>Phoenix Spears score 10.7 hits, 7.1 wounds, 3.5 unsaved wounds
>Opponent swings at initiative 1 5ish attacks, 2.5 hits, 2.08 wounds, 1.4 unsaved wounds
So Phoenix spears suffer fewer losses in the melee but inflict fewer in return. However, the generic terminators are much more flexible in terms of options. They can be given cataphractii pattern armour and probably win out over the Phoenix Guards in a melee, they can be given fists, combi-weapons, heavy weapons. Hell the sergeant can take a Phoenix Spear himself anyway.
Honestly though this doesn't really matter, I am simply stating that you have options to bulk up your list more while remaining fluffy and taking advantage of your RoW since your list seems a little squishy (5 terminators, and 35 regular marines).
>>46357275
IIRC, FnP doesn't work against ID attack. Didn't S >= target's Tx2 attacks induce ID?
>>46360506
Their basic shots aren't instant death. In order for the biopsychic shock or whatever to work they need to fail a morale test anyway hence their guns are great for thinning our hordes, much like volkite weapons, you can kill more dudes than shots you fired if you are lucky.
>>46357686
Seriously the iron cage is the most retarded thing ever, it's not even that kind of 40k cool retardation you can be ok with, it's just unbearably stupid.
>>46361146
Well I won't argue with you anon. Sendind your legion to an obvious trap really is unbearably stupid
could someone explain to me the white scars rule please?
>>46361146
>implying Pert didn't stay awake at night, drawing the blueprint, the thought of "nah, this won't work. He's not fucking dumb enough." running through his head
>his fucking face when it works and he finds a new level of disappointment/hatred for his battle brothers.
So do seekers work pretty much the same as Sternguard where I take 5 with Combi-X and put them in a pod, or with cheaper extra guys and the new ammo is there a better way to run them. If my choice of Legion matters it's SoH
Why did FW give Dorn a bolter if he isn't relentless, what do they expect me to do, hide him in my fortification?
>>46361368
>>46361476
Y'all know Dorn walked into the trap willingly, right?
Guy had the worst case of PTSD ever and wanted to purge himself and his legion.
>>46361636
>Had the worst case
More like received the worst case from the Iron Cage
Is there anyone with a Fellblade that would be willing to do me a quick favour to help me with my latest, probably insane, project?
>>46361567
>what do they expect me to do, hide him in my fortification?
Isn't that literally what IF do?
>>46358623
As an IW player, everything is fodder. Working on some named sergeants though.
The squads themselves are a clusterfuck of Calth marines kitbashed with various bits, Forge World resin troops, and general kitbashes using things like 40k Devastator legs and CSM vehicle crew.
I'm also working on salvaging some pretty fucked up Berzerkers I got second hand, scraping off all the leg details and combining them with MKV torsos and beakie heads for some ghetto MKVI for a later project.
>>46361691
>raped so hard it gave your past self time traveling PTSD
>>46361636
>Dorn walked into the trap willingly
Yes, that's why I said "obvious trap"
>>46361773
Tbh would that be the weirdest thing to happen in the heresy?
>>46361146
>>46361368
>>46361476
>>46361636
>>46361691
>>46361773
>>46361775
reminder dorn was saved by our spiritual liege
>>46361822
Isn't that literally what happened to Curze?
>>46361758
>Named sergeants
They gotta be badasses. Pay attention to Dreygur's mask; it says #285 (or 2B5?) from the 14th legion.
As in, he's a named character, with rules and all, yet probably his brother iron warriors didn't bother to remember his name.
I wish IW had remained loyal. They could have recruited from Krieg, it'd fit.
>>46361881
>Reminder the worst fucking primarch of all time had to get bailed out by the best.
Seriously, they should have just been dissolved, and made into Ultramarines, then they could have been great.
>>46361926
>Seriously, they should have just been dissolved, and made into Ultramarines, then they could have been great.
Are you my evil twin brother,Omegon?
>>46361903
More like "raped so hard it gave his past self future-vision PTSD"
>>46357263
I sure do hope it was the sisters
>>46361881
reminder our spiritual liege abandoned terra in favor of his backwater ultramar worlds in the middle of nowhere.
>>46362057
>what is warpstorm
>>46361972
Absolutely notAlpha rius, I'm just some nameless tactical marine, sharing my opinions, won't you agree that disolving the Imperial Fist chapter, and shooting their primarch in the street like a dog is the best course of action
>>46362135
>what is warpstorm
Reminder that the Angel braved the warpstorm, arrived on time and died for your sins
Any ideas when the Mastodon will be released?
>>46362135
Excuses of cowards and traitors.
>>46362192
>Sanguinius relies on reckless intervention while our spiritual liege relies on cold hard facts
>>46362186
I, for one, would welcome Dorn's children into my legion. Which is entirely made of Ultramarines and contains no elements of some erased legion, or something like that.
Just look at my Silver skull boys, completely original, in no way descendants of traitors and what-have-you.
>>46362257
Yes yes, Lion, I believe you. Loyalty is its own reward, and whatnot. Say, how's that working out for you, anyway?
>>46362236
>Relies on cold hard facts
Anon, what is a man?
>>46362135
an excuse used by the coward, traitor, and probably xenos-loving rawbutt girlyman in an attempt to justify his treachery to the imperium.
>girlyman thought some 30 ultrasmurf world mattered more than the emperor
>girlyman considered himself emperor of a more important imperium, the smurfperium suckundis
>>46362236
> cold hard facts
Like that he was too shit to even buy time for the Emperor?
>>46362297
>inb4 miserable little pile of secrets
>>46362305
>the Emperor?
Who? that guy who kidnapped our liege from his Empire and told him to work for the Imperium or else?
I posted in the last thread about scanon taking a while on the new masterclass book. Didnt mean to be mean to that beautiful mofo. Take your time bro
>>46362352
>The guy with the Empire that wasn't shit, and fucking made Girlyman
Yeah that one.
>>46362390
>being mean to Scanon under literally any circumstance
>mfw
1v1 me in vassal right now
How Alpha Legion-ish the Games Day Delegatus model is (Skorr I belive)? Can't check full 360 degrees of him with google image search. Would other Legions be able to use him as their own without cutting and grinding?
Also, what kind of base does Bikes use these days? Not sure if it is still the rectangular one, or the new oval one.
>>46362352
yeah, the guy your liege abandoned to die, and then tried to steal as much power as he could from in the vacuum left afterwards.
>>46362288
>Say, how's that working out for you, anyway?
He's alive, unlike some murderhobo that pretty much comitted assisted suicide. On hindsight, he reacts better to jokes now. As in, now he won't punch you in the face when the fight is over.
'Cause he's comatose, get it?
Heheh, he...hnnnng ᵃᵐ ᴵ ᵗʰᵉ ᵒᶰᶫʸ ᵒᶰᵉ ʷᶦᵗʰ ᵃ ˢᵉᶰˢᵉ ᵒᶠ ʰᵘᵐᵒᵘʳ ʰᵉʳᵉ?.
>>46361636
No he didn't. He walked into the super dangerous, heavily fortified, nigh untakeable Iron Warriors world knowing that it would be all of those and take huge casualties to conquer it.
He was entirely unaware that the fortifications were all built around a giant booby trap, that Perturabo wasn't on site, or that the entire Iron Warriors plan didn't actually involve defending anything and that they hadn't fortified anything so much as built lots of fortifications.
>>46362494
>Prepare for trouble
Make it double
>>46362672
Whatever Autist Mor, I'll smack you in the gobber.
>>46361822
Anon, I'm questioning your mental state. Why would you give BL more pointless "amazing" plot twists, and such an idiotic phrase?
>Tbh
>>46362719
desu fampi I just sort of say it now
>>46362641
That was a good joke. I'll let you off the hook for insulting senpai... for now.
>>46362719
>mfw dis busta ass nigga dont even say desu senpai like some sleek bix nood muhfuggah finna smd baka desu senpai
>>46362797
Every time you avoid the word filter GW gets worse, FW's prices go up, and BL takes longer to end the HH series.
>>46362751
>desu fampi
Fucking hell, whats up with people talking like retards all of a sudden? And Im not talking about the word filter.
>>46362855
They're doing that because of the word filter.
>>46362836
fuck your word filter hiro, dont make me fire up the enola gay again
word filter muh dik 2bh
>>46362192
>>46362235
>>46362297
>>46362300
>>46362305
>>46362393
>>46362510
>busy fighting 3 legions with the lion
>couldn't risk driving his legion through the warpstorm because he was one of the only primarchs who wasn't pants on head retarded
>didn't want to declare himself emperor
nice try Chaos internet defense force
>>46362509
The guy the model for Autilon Skorr would later be based on is actually portrayed as a Sons of Horus chieftain in some artwork book, I believe it is Illuminations. And no, there are no legion specific details, I have a mini.
>>46363199
>busy hanging out with the lion, a known traitor
>couldnt risk saving the emperor, because he wanted the power for himself
>declared himself emperor of imperium suckondis
>sat around with his thumb up his ass while terra burned
nice try, traitor internet defense force
>>46363401
>>declared himself emperor of imperium suckondis
Pretty sure he very specifically didn;t want to do that to avoid being seen as a traitor so he and the lion declared Sangy
>>46363453
>Sangy
Who he let die for his sins.
>>46363453
>didn;t want to do that to avoid being seen as a traitor
didnt work so good
>>46363453
>to avoid being seen as a traitor
>Im totes not a traitor guys! I just let the Emperor die while I built my own personal corner of the galaxy!
>>46363623
>>46363525
>>46363477
>>46363401
>it was beneficial for gulliman to let the emperor die
you guys cant be this retarded right?
>>46363638
>stale meme circlejerk
What do you think?
>>46363682
ah my bad I forgot where I was
>>46363401
>busy hanging out with the lion, a known traitor
A traitor? The guy Fateweaver had nothing to offer to convert him? Really?
>>46363638
>waa why did u make me warmaster i hate you dad
>fuck you im just going to build my own empire and itll be even better than urs!
>*seizes a bunch of worlds, declare it your own imperium, and defends them instead of helping terra*
he was a power hungry narcissist who only cared about himself.
>>46363722
>power hungry
>the guy who repeatedly stripped himself of power
>>46363763
>stripped himself of power
>by forcing everybody else to obey his codex astartes, which didnt even effect him since hed always organized his legion that way
>>46363623
>I just let the Emperor die while
Going by neo heresy black library faggotry, guilliman and sanguinius left at around the same time, but arrived at different times because of warp shenanigans. The latest batch of retcons has the Ultramarines being one of the reasons Horus lowered his shields.
In old not-imperium-secundus-retardation canon, the Ultramarines were just too fucking far away to make it because of Horus' orders and the Word Bearers jamming them up.
>le happy robot is a power-grubbing traitor memes
>>46358623
As a Raven guard, each of my guys is sorta his own character. They'd have to be pretty badass to survive Isstvan, so most of them have little characteristics to make them individuals, but still look unified.
Got a couple characters in the works, can anyone give me advice?
>>46363722
>Power hungry narcissist
>Man who deliberately limited the power of the legions so noone, including himself, could ever do heresy 2.0
Pick one
Things you're allowed to say to the Emperor and the Primarchs but not to the Black Library writers. Go.
>>46363831
>implying it limited the power of his own legion, which was always operating like that
>implying it wasnt his powerplay to neuter his rival legions, which had all done more than him during the heresy
>implying he didnt almost start another civil war over it
>implying he didnt open fire on dorns ship
a traitor and a coward
>>46363722
>he was only a tad flustered about not being war master but got over it and respected his fathers decision
>he already had a big empire
>defends his own worlds while not knowing whats going on on the outside due to word bearers trickery
"why didnt he rush into the warpstorm unprepared with his entire legion after he suffered major losses at calth!"
>>46363853
>I think we should talk like regular post human beings instead of trying to guess what is everyone thinking. It could save us some trouble
>>46363891
>"why didnt he rush into the warpstorm unprepared with his entire legion after he suffered major losses at calth!"
because he was a coward and a traitor.
sangy did.
>>46363785
And how many Primarch Heresies have we had since?
>>46363891
>he already had a big empire
For you
>>46363946
you mean since girlymans heresy?
>>46363938
We don't know how Sanguinus or Lionel got out tho.
>>46363873
>being the only primarch intelligent enough to actually organize his legion
>dorn, russ, khan, lion. doing more than gulliman
>his fault the three most retarded loyalists sided against him
at least try
>>46363956
Why didn't they just fix him up with bionics?
>>46363785
Ultras aren't even codex compliant. No one is ever going to paint their units to be 7th company purple trim. Not even getting into how they operate as a legion with successor chapters and have their own axillary milita. Astral Claws got excommunicated for less.
shit's hilarious how peps try to defend it.
>>46363938
how'd that work out for him?
>>46364018
>Astral Claws got excommunicated for less
Astral Claws got excommunicated for withholding tithe, then when they sent a force to go get it, attacked them.
Dude, try harder, this forced meme is not gonna get traction.
>>46364018
>Not even getting into how they operate as a legion with successor chapters
that's only the Dark Angels (but it's a secret)
>and have their own axillary milita.
most chapters have similar organizations on their home planets
>Astral Claws got excommunicated for less.
Actually they didn't get excommunicated for that. Lrn2fluff.
>>46363996
>dorn, khan
>defended terra, saved the imperium
>girlyman
>did nothing during the heresy, tried to steal as much power as he could afterwards
at least try
>>46362192
>>46363477
>>46363938
Sangy was the bravest of them all
He taught me that, even if the enemy has the very forces of hell supporting him, you can still prevail.
That even tho they break your legs, you can still send them back to the abyss screaming your name.
That even tho you get punched so hard even your grand grand children feel it, you can still hold back the terror
That even tho you are cursed and arguably a mutant, you can still be an angel!
FOR SANGUINIUS AND FOR THE EMPEROR!
>>46364140
I want to agree with you, but
>tho
>>46364125
>tried to steal power
>stepped down as leader of the Imperium when it was back on it's feet
>>46364125
You're arguing with 25 years of established lore. You try, bruh. You are simply incorrect no matter how you spin it.
>>46364183
>steal power
>everybody wants to kill him
>ok fine ill step down
cowardlyman strikes again
>>46364125
>khan
fucked around got shot up by the alpha legion and fought mortarion
>russ
teamkiller
>dorn
sat on his ass and did one thing (albeit one of the most important things)
>gulliman
Fought three legions despite suffering major casualties at calth and still won. He also scared Horus into committing suicide via emperor. and helped Actually rebuild and restructure the imperium after the emperors passing
>>46364271
What primarch do you acknowledge as worthy?
>>46356727
The best offence is to I am Alpharius
>>46364174
Sangy was the bravest of them all
He taught me that, even if the enemy has the very forces of hell supporting him, you can still prevail.
That even if they break your legs, you can still send them back to the abyss screaming your name.
That even if you get punched so hard even your grand grand children feel it, you can still hold back the terror
That even if you are cursed and arguably a mutant, you can still be an angel!
FOR SANGUINIUS AND FOR THE EMPEROR!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM6DJKUP51M
>>46364140
>>46364302
None of them.
Emps should have just made do without them.
>>46364271
I meant besides Guilliman here: >>46364302
>>46364302
Lorgar was objectively the most successful Primarch
>>46364271
>Fought three legions despite suffering major casualties at calth and still won.
>have a legion in excess of 250k marines, like twice the size of other legions, and have the DA and lion helping. fighting against already war torn traitors
>He also scared Horus into committing suicide via emperor.
nah that was russ
>and helped Actually rebuild and restructure the imperium after the emperors passing
so did all of them, except girlyman was the one who tried to start a second civil war
>>46364376
if he's so successful than where's monarchia?
>>46364376I agree, though Fulgrim (dat primarch kill ratio) and Angron (dat EVERYONE kill ratio) are up there IMO
>>46364404
Hes rebuilt it on multiple worlds in the Eye of Terror and Maelstrom, this time devoted to real gods
>>46363998
It would have been extremely painful
>>46364376
He got the least conquest of them all.
As in, even the Thousand sons got more shit done, and they stopped on each planet to read
>>46364385
>so did all of them
According to what?
It's established he took head of the Imperium during the Scouring and led the rebuilding efforts.
>>46364415
He's a big Astartes
>>46364376
abby is objectively more successful than any primarch
>>46364125
Every primarch had some temptation
The loyal ones overcame it
Russ and Vulkan - rage/depression
Sang - the thirst
Khan - felt betrayed ignored
Dorn - depression
Guilliman and Lion - doubt
It is stupid that guilliman believes Lorgar that the emperor is dead
However - remember the series was supposed to end at istavaan
To spin things out they had to make an excuse for why the ultras and Angels were delayed and why Horus took time and also how he went from gangsta primarch to daemon fucker
So we have imperium secundus and hyperbolic time chamber
Heck we have had Knights go from oh they are being phased out to they're integral
>>46364436
and reconquering, thanks to the manpower of the ultramarines being relatively untouched.
Exactly how they'll swing that in angron+lorgar at fucking calth instead of terra boogaloo I'm not sure.
>>46364436
>It's established he took head of the Imperium during the Scouring and led the rebuilding efforts.
nah that was dorn
>>46364447
https://youtu.be/oozQ4yV__Vw?t=51s
>>46364457
>Russ and Vulkan - rage/depression
>Sang - the thirst
>Khan - felt betrayed ignored
>Dorn - depression
>Guilliman and Lion - doubt
Is this tumblr?
>nah that was dorn
"I'M BUSY PUNISHING TRAITORS, YOU SHOULD PUNISH TRAITORS TOO!"
da proppa attitude
>>46364417
After Monarchia Lorgar made the Word Bearers the most successful legion after the Ultramarines, though they usually just reduced worlds to rubble.
Lorgar did this + secretly set the stage for the Heresy at the same time
>>46364496
>"I'M BUSY PUNISHING TRAITORS, YOU SHOULD PUNISH TRAITORS TOO!"
>da proppa attitude
yeah, girlyman was building schools and libraries while dorn was leading the massacre of the traitors.
then when dorn got back with super PTSD girlyman tried his codex powermove and sent dorn over the edge.
>>46364415
Can you not meme and give me a serious answer?
>>46364559
That was the answer though.
>>46364065
They frequently do combined arms with other successor chapters and have a milita for the entire fucking ultramar sector.
>>46364480
>nah that was dorn
According to what?
>>46364611
>have a milita for the entire fucking ultramar sector.
The Ultramar is the sole Imperium power in the entire Segmentum, that's why, the hub of all military efforts. That's why it's so well defended.
>>46363998
He was basically blown apart in a stormbird crash, bionics have their limit with what they can do unless you approach forbidden dark arts like Fabius Bile/Haemonculi
>>46364611
>They frequently do combined arms with other successor chapters
Combined arms with other chapters in general, m8. And they'll frequently defer command, because they ain't like that.
>and have a milita for the entire fucking ultramar sector.
yeah, all sectors kinda have organized PDFs m8, it's part of being in a space nazi empire.
>>46364616
to all of the fluff, ever, period.
dorn led the punishment of the traitors. thats why when he got back with the legions who went with him, and girlyman tried to pull the codex bullshit, like half of the legions just wanted dorn to kill him and take the throne himself, considering girlyman a coward and traitor.
but dorn didnt want to tear the imperium apart again, so he tried to kill himself with the iron cage. so sigismund, nassir amit, russ, the lion, etc all told girlyman to go fuck himself and just did their own thing.
>>46364580
Just put him on some heavy duty pain killers. Horus could have been like a parent comforting his child getting a shot at the doctor's office.
>>46364559
I fear your cranial temperature may be somewhat elevated.
>>46364665
Librarians couldn't use biomancy on him to patch him up a little because of the Edict?
>>46364695
>dorn led the punishment of the traitors
Dorn was not the only one doing so.
The rest of the Ultramarines, Dark Angels and White Scars did as well, with Guilliman staying on Terra to manage the politics.
Everything else you are saying is pure fancanon, with no basis in any printed material, unless you are going to start quoting.
>>46364767
>Everything else you are saying is pure fancanon
its not, read the fucking fluff.
Prepare for trouble!
Make it double!
To protect the Imperium from devastation!
To unite all mankind within our nation!
To denounce the evils of truth and love!
To extend our reach to the stars above!
Alpharius!
Omegon!
Alpha Legion, blast off at the speed of light!
Surrender now, or prepare to fight!
>>46364665
I can't even imagine how's the lines are drawn among Bionic/Dreadnought/Stasis level of severity in this universe.
>>46364813
Which you should quote or cite like that guy's saying
>>46364826
Why are they fun sized primarchs
>>46364826
Lion'El, that's right!
>>46364875
Their children are bigger than them but they're just average marine height so 8ft.
>>46364855
>durr go quote everypage of every source of every lexicanum article ever
im not going to spoonfeed you, read the fluff yourself.
its clear he didnt even read the fluff considering he said that 'girlyman led the scouring' when it was always dorn who did it, in all the fluff, forever. he did it because he was completely insane and blamed himself for the emperor's death, so he led it out of 'atonement'
>>46364854
Bionic is basically anything that can be replaced to make you still function like a person. Anything but neural damage. Dreadnought is at the point where the person's neurologically damaged to the point where they need to be put on life support and drugs injected to keep them awake. Stasis is FUCK THIS, WE'LL FIGURE THIS LATER"
You're all wrong. Flesh Tearers led the Scouring...leaderboard.
>>46364921
so you have got zero citations for that guy. Very compelling.
>>46364962
yeah but its because they padded their stats with civvies :^)
siggy and amit never stopped the scouring, its still going.
>>46364875
They're about the size of a normal Marine so they can blend in with everyone else. This begs the question did the Emperor engineer the Primarchs to be what they were? It would seem so.
>>46365038
He didn't engineer them to be like that. It just happened.
>>46364747
Using Warp-craft to restore a marine even pre-edict would be very taboo
>>46365038
Well, they did each happen to fit a different one of the established legions...
>>46365007
KILLS ARE KILLS SCRUB
>>46365075
I'm sure Big E would let Horus get away with it at least once.
>>46364695
Dorn wasn't leading anyone but the fists. He was full rage mode.
>so he tried to kill himself with the iron cage
I can post the Iron Cage fluff if you like, because you clearly don't fucking know it. Dorn used the Iron Cage as a way of getting his die-hard legion to work through the grief of losing the Emperor.
The Imperium didn't fucking trust legions after the Heresy. Dorn realized it after he came out of his depression, his legion didn't.
>>46365077
Many of them molded the legion into their own. Some legions were drastically different/didn't compliment their Primarch.
Iron Warriors, Raven Guard, War Hounds, Dusk Raiders, etc. Even the Ultramarines used to be hardcore savage barbarians.
>>46365170
>I can post the Iron Cage fluff if you like, because you clearly don't fucking know it. Dorn used the Iron Cage as a way of getting his die-hard legion to work through the grief of losing the Emperor.
you know he wanted to die there
>>46364557 >>46364695
>what is infrastructure
see>>46361881
>>46365279
>what is infrastructure
probably the part where i said building schools a libraries when the real men were out crusading.. you know.. in that first post you quoted.
>>46364546
That's pretty much the worst thing anyone could do.
"I'm going to disobey my father so hard it'll fuck up ALL THE GALAXY"
>>46365324
He was successful at what he set out to do. He just set out to do horrible, horrible things.
>>46365263
>you know he wanted
nah, here's the actual fluff
How do I make reasoanble Primarchs? My buddy and I are making the II and XI legion for our mini heresy, using the Black Shield Rules for them. We both want to make our own primarchs, but would you guys have any advice on how to balance them?
I'm making the Shield Master, Which is the wrought by war Chymaera option #1 with as many defensive options as possible. He's going full Void Reaver Pirate Master, with the Void Option and going Terminator/Auxilia options.
>>46365357
he wanted to die there
he basically became suicidal after the emperor died, thats why he tried to yolo a whole chaos fleet by himself.
>>46365357
I distinctly remember the Iron Cage being told from both the Imperial and Traitor points of view in different books.
I suggest posting the other version of the fluff if you don't want to be labeled a biased faggot.
>>46365433
>*tried to yolo a whole black crusade by himself
is what i meant :^)
>>46365442
I can do that, but we're talking about Dorn's reasoning for going into the cage, not the result. The IF version is the only version that goes into it.
>>46365433
He was doing that BEFORE the Iron Cage, man. >>46365170. After Guilliman told him to chill the fuck out he realized he was being crazy.
>>46364875
When the Primarchs were scattered through the galaxy by the chaos gods, half of Alpharius remained behind, which splitted this big Primarch (for you) into two smaller (4u2) manlets.THIS ACCOUNT IS A LIE, though
>>46365102
That's what a khornate berzerker would say
>>46365350
>"Should have been gassed" tier
>>46365529
also you have to remember that matt fucking ward wrote a lot of the ultrawank right around that time period. so it wont be canon for long, since FW is rewriting everything.
What's the schedule for future character series releases?
>>46365603
>right around that time period
index astartes is from third edition
mat ward wasn't even part of the company when that fluff came out
>>46365652
5th was when they did a lot of scouring shit, and that was all matt ward
>>46365603
>matt fucking ward wrote a lot of the ultrawank right around that time period. so it wont be canon for long
"ultrawank" has always been canon, at least since the Ultramarine codex and will probably always will be. It had nothing to do with Matt Ward.
>>46365679
I literally just posted all of the scouring fluff, which has remained unchanged since it was first written.
Mat Ward had absolutely nothing to do with it. Blame Andy Chambers, Pete Haines, Jervis Johnson, Rick Priestly and all the other old boys.
>>46365793
>Mat Ward had absolutely nothing to do with it.
5th ed space marines
nuff said
>>46364457
>Lion
Lion wasn't doubtful. If he had any flaw it was egoism. Fucker was obsessed with being warmaster and leading the first legion.
>>46364385
>have a legion in excess of 250k marines
Everyone else sucks at logistics.
>>46366171
Easy to say it when the legions' geneseed Russ killed were absorbed by the Ultras, who also CONVENIENTLY didn't participate in the Rangdan xenocides, where the unsung Dark Angels then ~250k strong pretty much saved the northern imperium.
What were the Ultras exposed to before the heresy?
NOTHING
And they lost around 125k marines in the first hours of the betrayal. They simply weren't destroyed because they were so fucking many and they were in their own pocket empire.
>Everyone else sucks at logistics
Perturabo managed to get his legion up to 180k marines despite atrocious casualty rates. Had he done things Fulgrim's/Alpharius' way (aka minimizing their own casualties) the IW would have been the biggest legion.
The WB also increased their numbers by a huge amount
And the Alphas, well, I don't even want to think about it...srsly, I don't want to.
But what would the perfect son know about struggle anyway?
>>46366171
clearly quality > quantity was a concept lost on girlyman the brilliant.
>>46366325
Maybe it wasn't and he realised quantity was his only choice.
So, what are Blackshields?
Are they a leftovers legion?
>>46366383
kek
somebody needs to make a smug girlyman
>>46366300
>the legions' geneseed Russ killed were absorbed by the Ultras
The author of that particular book specifically said that was just the idle thoughts of clueless word bearer grunts.
calm your butthurt a bit m80
>>46366459
the handwave is strong in this one
>>46366388
Blackshields can be literally anything you want them to be so long as they were Space Marines at some point (and even then, with Chymirae that line gets drawn pretty thin).
>>46366849
Yeah, but what are they in the fluff?
>>46366937
Take a bunch of Marines. Paint over their heraldry. Blackshields.
>>46366937
Have you tried downloading the fucking book from the OP and reading it yourself?
>>46366937
>Blackshields can be literally anything you want them to be so long as they were Space Marines at some point
>>46365357
Strange, I thought Dorn was the master of fortification/defense and Pert was the master of siege.
Why the hell Dorn is such a masochist
>>46367317
When you build an entire combat doctrine based around not getting hurt, you get curious. Curiosity can kill a cat
>>46367063
For what purpose?
>>46367132
No.
>>46367235
Elaborate
SPOOOON FEEEED MEEEEEEEE!
>>46356727
The best offence is flying away when the enemy tries to hurt you.
>>46355658
Would it make more sense fluff wise for my Night Lords army to be made of Mark III or Mark IV armour?
Sure the MK IV armour would be more suited for rapid, fast close combat... But it was the newest Mark of armour by the time of the heresy.
And the Night Lords had been renegade for 20 years before Istavaan V.
So would it be fluffy-er if they had MK III or Mk IV?
>>46367317
because hes prussian
germans are into some weird kinky shit ;)
>>46367317
Because he felt responsible for the deaths of his father and his brother, the greatest man who ever lived and the second greatest man who ever lived respectively.
The guy had arguably the single worst case of PTSD imaginable.
>>46367360
>And the Night Lords had been renegade for 20 years before Istavaan V.
Whaaat?
They weren't renegade, else they would have been fucked up by Alpharius and Russ.
It was just that nobody liked them except maybe the World Eaters, as much as they could like anyone.
They were still loyal to the Emperor (though Kurze could see the future, hated his troops, and didn't care about the future of the civilians of the Imperium), and even if they were viewed askance, the Forge Worlds in their AO would have been too afraid to refuse to restock them with better gear.
Plus Mark 3 armour isn't actually a "new" design over the mark 2, in a similar way to how mark 5 is a variant of mark 4. It's mark 2 armour with extra plating built into it for legions who have tactical ethoses that suit that type of protection over mobility design philosophy.
If you wanted your Night Lords to have old, pre-heresy stocks of armour, Mark 2 would be the only reasonable choice, but if you find the idea of outfitting them in snazzy Mark 4 armour unsuitable for them in the midst of the disrupted supply lines of the heresy and the "gorrilla warfare" doctrine of their legion, then just outfit them in Mark 5 armour instead, because it's Mark 4 armour cobbled together with cheaper materials and construction methods, like the guys in your picture, who have studs and exposed tubing.
What's actually interesting about the Night Lords is that they cover up a lot of their armour with trophies, so if you just make your force from the BAC boxset with the FW upgrade set, they don't look like "fresh off the factory line" Ultrasmurfs.
>>46367444
Trips confirm.
>>46367546
>They weren't renegade, else they would have been fucked up by Alpharius and Russ.
Wait, I get Russ, but why also Alpharius?
>>46367574
Alpharius was probably the only Primarch better than Kurze at subtle warfare, and (from a certain interpretation of the canon) was actually one of the most loyal and definitely the most farsighted Primarch, so he could have undercut the Night Lords quite effectively with his sneaky tactics.
>>46367621
>(from a certain interpretation of the canon) was actually one of the most loyal
ELABORATE
>>46367621
>misspells Curze
>Night Lords
>the guys who descend from the skies surfing on the flayed carcasses of their victims while lightning flashes on their armor and speakers deafen the enemy with recorded screaming
>subtle warfare
>>46367639
It's in the wikis and 1d4chan - Alpharius talks to John Grammaticus of the Cabal and basically says he more or less agrees with the Cabal's strategy to let Horus win and kill off all the souls that feed Chaos. I don't remember the full details.
There's also the more general interpretation that Alpharius' legendary meme-levels of double-crossing and two-facedness extend to his "loyalty" to Chaos - he's basically the Emperor's "man on the inside", working to undermine Chaos, or at least reconnoiter it.
I like this interpretation of him. He's basically the meme of CREEEEEED made canon and brought up to 11.
>>46367639
"All I do from this point is, for the Emperor."
Something like that IIRC, when he decided join team Horus.
>>46367755
Well, "subtle" strategically, not tactically.
A bit like the Raven Guard.
>>46367763
>>46367773
Yeah, naw. He may think that just like the Night Lords don't think they're beholden to any higher power but I'm calling bullshit.
The moment he decided to use Chaos against itself is when he sold his soul to damnation.
Besides, he and the Alpha Legion are utterly committed since Horus lost. They and the Thousand Sons got dicked by Tzeentch hard.
They're fucking traitors.
Alpharius has taken half of the AL and joined team Horus, and Omegon has taken the other half of the AL and working for team Emperor. They believe by pursuing different goal at the same time they can make two fates (Horus win and humanity eradicated but Chaos gone, Big E win and the Chaos consumes all after 10000 years or so) cancel each other out or something.
>>46367817
I thought it was the other way around.
Speaking of Alpha Legion, does the Power Dagger option not replace one of their default weapons? Because if it doesn't, how would that affect my weapon options for the Moritat?
>>46367943
The Power Dagger is bought for 5 points and is its own upgrade. You don't trade in anything for it.
"any character model with the Legiones Astartes (Alpha Legion) may take a power dagger in addition to their normal options for +5 points"
>>46368003
Cool. That's what I thought.
So my question about what the Moritat's upgrade options are left open to - he has two bolt pistols and a chainsword in addition to the power dagger, and the rules say the generic Centurion can trade in his "bolt pistol and/or combat blade" for various options, so I'm left wondering if I could have 2 phosphor serpentas AND a plasma pistol for maximum rape, whereas the Moritats of other legions would have only two pistol options after having chosen a melee weapon for self defence.
I don't see why not, since 1d4chan says the way to use the Moritat is to have two upgraded pistols, though there's always the possibility that what they're talking about is swapping the chainsword for the second special pistol rather than the "additional bolt pistol" .
Even if I still have to be carrying around a bolt pistol along with the serpenta and plasma pistol, and don't have any melee weapon other than the dagger, the Alpha Legion Moritat is still a stronger Moritat than the average Moritat.
>>46368089
You cannot trade the power dagger for an additional utility pistol, because you cannot trade power daggers for pistols. If the Moritat had a rule that allowed it to buy more bolt pistols/combat blades (and probably chainswords if we used 40k wargear tables), you could trade for a third pistol because you'd start with 1 bolt pistol and 2 chainswords which you'd trade in for 3 special pistols.
>>46368141
Sorry, I didn't state the question I had clearly.
The basic Centurion rules say he can trade in his bolt pistol.
I'm wondering if he can trade in the extra bolt pistol he gets from the Moritat rule the same way he trades in the default Centurion pistol.
