Elaborating on ideas created in this thread:
>>46347398
This is a magical world that might be worked into a splat or a Quest. In this world there are Flyers. And there are Groundlings.
There are Castles made of semi-solid clouds and jangling, choking, primitive flying machines. There are subterranean monks and duelists that fight on starlit nights miles above the Earth. There are monsters made of thunderstorms that eat clouds heavy with the light of past sunsets.
There is danger and beauty and adventure here in this world.
First order of business is that we really, really need something not called Sky Knights.
It just doesn't...inspire.
>>46352812
I don't like the idea of there being floating "lands" in the sky. If we do that the environment of the sky itself will suffer. Slow moving flying machines and stuff made of "hard" clouds will help show the immensity of the blue and white void that is the sky. Floating continents will not.
What do you think? Should we have landmasses in the sky? I think the idea of "cloud gardens" will be more than enough. They're unique enough visually with their focus on visible roots and their smallness and location -inside- clouds won't detract from the immediate power of the setting.
>>46350946
>>46350766
>Are Groundlings Human?
Yes, and can breed with Flyers. How else are we supposed to get a Flyer/Groundling romance?
>Feudal society?
I'm tempted to make something weird and strange, but this setting revolves on the power difference between Flyers and Groundlings. A simple feudal relationship works. The Flyers are gentry, they just control the Sky AND the land.
So wait, does this include the other places in the world or just these psuedo-European sky knights?
Yeah, I'd keep big flying landmasses out. I think there are quite a few settings already there that have flying landmasses.
Having the nobility Build Mansions or something on top of a foundation of (semi-)solid clouds can be a way to express wealth and influence, since you need to get a fuckton of other Flyers to get the building materials up there.
>>46353835
>Other people in the world
Such as? Who should be added and how?
I don't want to steal from the other setting though. But throw whatever ideas you have out there.
The Sky Knights are global. Their reach extends over all the world. It would be pretty silly if something like an ocean stopped them from expanding.
>>46353860
>Building materials as a sign of wealth.
I really like this! The best of the best make ice castles from the frozen poles or dredge up coral from the oceans and stick it on top of clouds.
This also makes brings a great demand for "cloud sculptors" who can paint and shape semi-solid clouds to look like material from the Earth. Because if a Flyer can't have his castle made of solid gold he's going to want it to at least -look- like gold!
This creates the irony that cloud castle made of fantastic cloud material are the least opulent in the Flyers' opinion and yet most opulent in the opinion of the groundlings.
Cloudscape Creation
Let's leave the people and factions alone for the moment and talk about the Cloudscape environment itself.
You have your regular, normal clouds. Cold water vapor. So it makes sense its cold in the sky right?
How about we add to the flying ability of the Flyers the ability to keep warm? The force that propels them through the air is a warm force. This will allow them to get away with wearing cool outfits among the clouds. They won't have to bundle up like the guys from Chronicle.
Weak Flyers DO have to bundle up. It's very shameful. Such clothing robs them of grace and weighs them down hampering their already inferior abilities. There have been stories of Weak Flyers that refuse to bundle up just so they can be that much better and killing themselves through exposure and sickness.
This bit of heat fluff, good idea or bad idea?
>>46353989
>other setting
Are you talking about the stuff I was suggesting in the other thread with other peoples, like the Native American shapeshifters, Mongol teleporters, and Arabic telepaths? Because that's basically what I was asking about.
Wouldn't it be cool if they fought with crude planes?
It's likely that Flyers don't consider what we know as clouds as "clouds". They might call the semi-solid clouds "clouds". They might call the water vapor clouds "false clouds" because of their treacherous nature (place something down on it and it falls through and vanishes in an instant) or just "water".
"Look out for that bank over there. It looks like clouds but its really just water!"
>>46354255
What would you like to see exactly? A whole planet full of magic races seems to overcompensate things. And they become trite when we link a power to an entire culture (It's on the agenda to create diverse Sky Knight cultures).
But what do you want to see and how do you think it'll work in this setting?
>>46354360
Idea that was had in the last thread was that primitive airships like hot air balloons and blimps exist, but anything more advanced is blown out of the sky by the Skyfolk, as they rightly see it as a threat to their power.
Skyfolk works, methinks. Makes them sound vaguely fey.
>>46354360
I do so want to see a guy with a cape and rapier fight with a bunch of biplanes.
The issue of the groundlings developing heavier than air, maneuverable flying machines (flying machines exist, but they're like balloons. They hold things up for the Flyers and not much else) has been discussed.
1. They just never get to to making biplanes. Conspiracy by the Flyers combined with a propagated belief that a machine can never fly like a man prevents their creation.
2. They do. This will shake things up incredibly in the setting. So much so that "Biplanes Knight" might need to be an alt take on the setting.
How would the setting be if the biplanes were a thing?
>>46354381
I just wanted the "divine right of kings" to be a sort-of-real thing, where the noble houses of all places are granted some kind of power by the divinity they worship. It may be kind of stupid.
>>46354502
Imagine every stereotype about WW1 pilots. Upper class, stiff upper lip, vaguely homosexual.
I'd play that campaign.
>>46354474
>Skyfolk
That reminds me of an idea to include a race of sky beings from the other thread based on Medieval devils being princes of the air and being composed of air. Add to that folklore about phantom islands that would sometimes be seen in the clouds like Hy Brasil and Tir Na Nog and we have the makings of something.
I'm not sure exactly -what- but its something. I'm seeing a race of very alien beings. Very alien.
I'm thinking maybe something like an intelligent cloud bank that reads that thoughts of those it passes over and changes itself to mimic them. So it passes over a Flyer civilization and mirrors it-but imperfectly. The people talk gibberish. The buildings blend into one another. Things just aren't -right-.
If you guys like this we can add uh...whatever we're going to call... this to the list of "living stuff in the cloudscape" along with Thunderheads.
>>46354715
I'm not really sure it fits in with the rest of the setting. I mean, we've got Sky Knights (Skyfolk?), Terraneans (Groundlings) and Subterraneans (do we have a proper name for them yet?) as the "big three", with Thunderheads acting as a semi-sentient "hand of god".
I guess what I'm saying is I'm not sure it fits very well with the rest. Nothing wrong with a good eldritch abomination every now and then, but I don't feel very good about these aliens.
>>46355012
Maybe they were there once, and then left?
>Long ago, all men walked on the ground, and the air was forbidden to us. But the Goodly Ones, praised be their names, granted our ancestors the skies. It is their will that we lead the groundlings. We are of their blood, and it leads us to the air.
Body horror anon from last thread. You can see where I'm going with this.
>>46355012
Fair enough. If they are going to be in the setting they're just going to be something distant and mysterious. They float about copying things and take no other interest. They won't be a faction by any stretch.
I like the idea of each faction having different ways of referring to other factions. Flyers call each other Sky Lords/Knights/Ladies depending on the social standing of the one being addressed. Groundlings call them Skyfolk. Subterraneans call them Watchers.
Flyer Terminology
Flyer: Sky Knight/Lord/Lady/King/Prince/etc
Groundlings: Groundlings
Subterraneans: Groundlings (They generally refuse to honor them with a distinction. The ones that do just call them Subterraneans)
Groundling Terminology
Flyers: Skyfolk
Groundlings: Folk
Subterranens:Earthfolk
Subterranean Terminology
Flyers: Watchers
Groundlings: Terraneans
Subterraneans:Subterraneans
"Subterraneans" is a nice, big, sweeping word for our underground intellectual monks to call themselves.
>>46353559
Does the Black Death happen in this world?
Also, while the flyers can go anywhere, wouldn't the ground below still be occupied by locals, who don't accept the flyers as their lords and masters, and will kill them if possible?
>>46355443
>Groundling Rebellion
They handle that like Laputa did in Gulliver's Travels. They just drop shit on them.
Or worse yet, agitate some of the semi-solid clouds and attack them with weather. Or dry up the crops by keeping the clouds out of the sun. Or move the clouds to block the sun.
>Does the Black Death Happen
Probably not. The conditions aren't in place. Flyers live in vast estates, so no overcrowding among them. The Groundlings potentially live in enough overcrowded squalor to trigger a plauge, but Flyer rulers can lock down an afflicted area far more effectively than our real historic rulers.
![Skyland01_1024x768[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/QwYkpaz.jpg "Skyland01_1024x768[1].jpg")
For reference, the french cartoon and comic Skyland had people living in floating islands. Obviously different, but can provide some nice plot points for sky adventures (water wars, central rule and frontier territories, the state trying to get his hands on everyone with special powers,...)
>>46355443
I'd say yes. It would reinforce the status of flyers and the disparity between the two castes, since flyers wouldn't have too much contact with it and be relatively spared (unless we have flying fleas)
If you add some big peasant uprisings before, it might been seen as a punishment from the gods, and ensure that the flyer's rule is left undisputed for a long time (in appearance, at least).
Subterraneans would be hit very hard by it, mirroring the caste ssytem pretty nicely.
>>46355214
Half cloud half people?
...That ties in extremely well with medieval stories of incubus giving birth to cambrians from human women. Also mooncalf stories and faerie changelings.
What if the rare encounter with the Goodly Folk (Ones is too Lovecraftian, and I want these guys to be strange, but not outright hostile) has a chance of changing a Groundling?
Some say if a Groundling woman meets a Goodly One she will give birth to a Flyer and beget an entire new bloodline of Flyers.
This is partially true. What happens is they give birth to part-cloud people called...I'm really garbage at names...
These cloud people aren't Lovecraftian horrors (unless you want them to be, in which case have fun with your blood-clouds). They're people that can turn intangible and "fly" by being blown by the air. They were sometimes confused for Flyers which is how the stories started.
Some are born as "ghosts", never able to assume anything more than a barely-tangible form. Some say these beings aren't really alive. Some are normal humans until they "will" a change. Whatever parent they take most after these beings are incredibly rare. Most regard them as mere folklore like the stories of Flyers that build houses underwater.
>>46355669
>Plague is seen as another example of Flyer superiority
>What it means, unknown to everyone, is that Groundlings are building up an immunity Flyers don't have...
I retract what I've said before. This idea is too good not to have.
>>46355574
Except that it's in areas outside of Europe, which the flyers would have had immense difficulty capturing in the first place. Not to mention the difficulty in controlling a place where no one loyal to you speaks the language. Also, hitting a highly mobile enemy would be difficult, and so they'd have to get closer, which would make them vulnerable to arrows. Which means that the Mongolian Hordes would be their worst nightmare, because they literally lived in the saddle, and used bows quite heavily, as well as the whole "invite enemy prince for peace talks then pour molten silver in his eyes and mouth" thing.
>>46355975
This thread is about a fantasy realm and not alt-history afaik.
And as I understand it every nobility everywhere are Flyers.
NPC "Creatures"
-Goodly Ones
-Thunderheads
"Goodly Folk" "Class Options"
Mistake: Horrible abomination of flesh and air. You came out of your mother -wrong-.
Kindly One: Based on Brownie and "friendly faerie" concepts. You take more after your father than your mother. You may have even been born without anyone noticing. You're a "ghost". Air is your default form and you must struggle to take solid shape. You help your people like a guardian angel. They know you're presence by your actions, no matter how small they might be.
Blessed: You take after your mother more than your father. With concentration you can make parts of yourself wispy and cloud like, even intangible. With practice you can pass as a flyer, although close observation will reveal you for what you are.
>>46355975
>>46356028
This is a fantasy world, not alt-history. That's the other thread. Every noble everywhere is a Flyer.
You're also underestimating Flyers. Part of their existence involves constantly shuffling their floating castles to avoid Thunderhead migration patterns. They can drop rocks and fire and thunder on uppity groundlings all day long. And all night to.
>>46356134
I feel that the key to making Goodly Ones work is to make them not very Lovecraft at all. Make them like the Fae. They can be deadly, and should always be respected, but sometimes they're helpful. But most of the time they just do their own thing. "Very weird neighbors" is the feel I want. Flyers sometimes enter their cities to try and understand and study their existence. It is said that hidden in the gibberish of the Goodly Ones is true wisdom, and that if one is kind to them they will make him wise. It is also said that their cities mirror the cities of the Flyers perfectly, in their own way, and as such can reveal truths about the mirrored cities to those that know what to look for in the strange, warped architecture.
Groundlings of course seek them out to make Goodly Folk and sneak into Flyer society.
Just got here and this all sounds pretty cool. Shouldn't all of this be on some public doc?
Reposting from the other thread since apparently they don't take kindly on anything other than history:
>how much can the flyers carry? Only their own weight (nude fights, then), some light gear, full plate armor, a backpack full of stones, anything?
Is there different bloodlines with different stats? (higher ceilling, more manoeuvrable, faster, able to carry more stuff or to fly for a longer duration,...)
>Cloudscape Creation continued
Now to talk about the semi-solid stuff that people in this world actually call "clouds".
What the hell is this stuff?
It comes in a variety of thickness and consistency. Some act like quicksand. Others almost like brick.
Would varieties add flavor or just be a cheap gimmick?
One variety is the food of Thunderheads, and can be spotted from the rest by the way it slowly changes color "out of step" with the other clouds during sunrise and sunset. These "sun clouds" only appear like other clouds on the outside. But inside they hold a rainbow of oranges and yellows and reds and pinks. Sun Clouds hold within themselves the sunrises and sunsets of days gone by.
Some even preserve images of past events. They're almost like living primary source documents.
They're also a good source of heat and worth when used properly, and warm many a Cloud Citadel. It is customary among the Flyers to decorate the insides of their Cloud Castles with Sun Clouds, making a warm and colorful room. Children, not yet strong enough to project an aura of potent enough heat with their "flying power" are commonly given a Sun Cloud room.
This has also led to Sun Cloud rooms to be thought of as "nurseries". Shivering Groundlings brought up to the Cloud Castles don't understand it when the Flyers laugh at them for bunking in the Sun Cloud room. They think its an honor to sleep in such a colorful, warm room.
Is it dangerous to make a castle out of Sun Cloud rooms? Only if you don't have larger amounts of Sun Clouds placed away from the castle. Some Flyers even "herd" Thunderheads by setting up irresistible "feeding paths". It's not an uncommon tactic in a war to hurl sun clouds at an enemy's castle in the hopes that a nearby Thunderhead will take the bait...
Damn. I got a feeling the fluff of the weird magic semi-solid clouds could make or break the setting. But I don't think the fluff is at the level it needs to be yet...
>>46356521
I think it should remain as a secondary feature only. Clouds are an essential part of the background of this setting but not its foundations.
I dig the various flavours of clouds though.
>>46356357
Don't worry, I'll put something together later. I'm not going to let this all l just dry up.
>>46356387
>How much can they carry?
Eh...enough so that a big heavy lance stuck inside them the right way causes them to drop. But they can still fly if they hold this lance as a weapon and distribute the weight properly...
Probably their own weight plus a bit more. A good rule of thumb would probably be "what could a person wear and carry while still being able to walk at a brisk pace".
>Different bloodlines with different stats
Not yet, but I very much want there to be. It'll also give us a chance to make differing cultures of Flyers.
>>46356521
Intriguing, but...I dunno. Making things out of clouds irritates the physicist in me way too much. And yes, I know it's stupid to care about physics in a setting where people fly, but it just feels like mining clouds is stupid.
What if we just had some kind of lighter-than-air mineral or rock, only capable of floating up to a certain point in the atmosphere but still vulnerable to weight? Basically, helium but a rock and with greater lift per unit mass?
>Fliers regularly contract Groundlings to build them strange castles, airy and large, with strange "holes" intentionally left unfilled, then ban them from watching what happens. In the night, teams of Fliers bring down huge, heated (and thus no longer buoyant) chunks of skystone and set them carefully in the sockets before allowing them to cool, sending the castle high into the sky, making it seem to the ignorant Groundlings that the castle has vanished.
>The groundlings know exactly what's happening, but those prissy sky fops are annoying enough, and if we tell them we know they'll be angry and won't hire us, so we'll shut up.
![Monteverde+Cloud+Forest%252C+Costa+Rica[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/QawbK6a.jpg "Monteverde+Cloud+Forest%252C+Costa+Rica[1].jpg")
>>46356521
I'm not a fan of solid or special clouds.
What if instead, the clouds where regular clouds, and some parts of the fauna had evolved like the humans, resulting in plants able to float.
Then they'd stay in the clouds, since it provides nutrients and water. The more plants in the cloud, the solider it gets. Some old clouds with forest on them can support massive castles. Some other ones have vegetation that look solid at first glance but clumble as soon as you set foot on it.
Also "rainforests" would look hella good IMO, with trees on top roots dangling underneath them.
To reuse your idea, thunderheads could "feed" on such forests. Burning them with lightning to provide heat and smoke that add to their power or something.
Besides, it allows for easier to manufacture aeroplanes, provided that floated wood doesn't lose its levitating powers.
This feels morally wrong. At least credit the guy who gave the original idea, even if this was a mistake.
>>46356628
Weather eggs are also a thing. On the outside, a cloud. On the inside, weather! If you strike these clouds hard enough you produce weather. You cause a rainstorm or snow or even a tornado.
These, like Sun Clouds, often find themselves as they rooms inside a Cloud Castle. A Rain Cloud becomes a bath. A Snow Cloud a freezer for exotic foods. A Tornado Cloud a very very kinky seraglio...
Some philosophers say that the entire world is really just inside a cloud, and one day it will spring forth.
>>46356669
>Making things out of clouds
Its the opposite for me. I want magic bullshit clouds. I want "cloud sculptor" to be a thing. The little kid in me gleefully demands it.
>>46356802
He specifically asked the idea not get developed further in this direction so he wouldn't be accused of "ripping off his own ideas" if he ever wants to revisit it. Which would happen if this gets turned into a quest, community document, project, and whatever else these guys have in mind. This thread is a gigantic dick move. I know the internet is lawless, but there is such a thing as decency. Or at least there should be.
>>46356802
>>46356904
You mean the guy that said "make a setting with flying European Nobles" and then booted me because I dropped the alt history shtick?
He contributed a single sentence. I did all the actual world building. Those first green text posts are all mine.
>>46356829
Maybe we can compromise? People can make art out of clouds, but it's just not stable enough to make anything big enough to live in - maybe a sky-gazebo, but no more?
>>46356971
Yet you'd still be ruining what he started if you continue this. He asked you nicely to stop. Talk to him if you want to and ask him to give you permission, or do as he said. This isn't a question of legality, it's a question of not being a dick. At the very, very least, do like >>46356802 said and give credit.
>>46353810
>The Flyers are gentry,
Theyd have to be because all of modern warfare revolves around occupying "the high ground", even if that means satellites in space.
>>46354176
>The force that propels them through the air is a warm force.
No thats lame. Fart-wind is lame.
Just give them an inability to feel cold. Like, antifreeze in their blood or something. Adding more tangible benefits to the bloodlines.
>>46356971
>B-but I COULD'VE come up with those ideas myself!
One should never, ever be in a position where they defend themselves using the same sentences Chris-Chan has. You may've done a great deal of worldbuilding but it's still based off his idea. Moreover, since he was explicitly planning to continue with it, you splitting it off into a completely different project is going to fuck him up when he does.
As I said, there are no laws involved in here. There is no internet police that will stop you. There are still, however, ethics. Ask for the guy's permission.
>>46354255
>Native American shapeshifters, Mongol teleporters, and Arabic telepaths?
But thats LAME. All youve done is take two ideas and combined them.
Get on my level. I either combine 3 ideas or combine a known with an unknown, a bit like youve done with the powers there, but... more anknown.
>>46356802
>>46356904
>>46357027
literally lolwut
>>46354381
>It's likely that Flyers don't consider what we know as clouds as "clouds". They might call the semi-solid clouds "clouds". They might call the water vapor clouds "false clouds" because of their treacherous nature (place something down on it and it falls through and vanishes in an instant) or just "water".
This would require complex cartography of what clouds were stable or not. There could even be mythical stable clouds to the south(?) which cannot be found.
What would be the tactics used by the nobles, against groundlings and against other nobles ?
I was thinking ,arrows and rocks against peasants (gotta use that gravity). Maybe some low passes with lances and swords, to mimic cavalry.
Against flyers, weighted nets and bolas to make them fall. Or would attacking another noble at a distance be considered a dishonourable thing ?
>>46356904
He said "what if european nobles could fly", nothing more. Then he got all prissy because it didn't fit his vision. Guess he should have been more specific instead on writing a single line of text in his OP.
And now he kicking people that speak about contacts with China since apparently alt-history is Europe only (must be based on Hecateus works, surely).
By that logic, we should own everything besides his original post.
Magic clouds, spirit thunderstorms, planes and balloons, different powersets, all of it was provided by others anons.
And FFS, don't post things on /tg/ if you don't want people to use them.
We had a story bouncing authors tow days ago, and nobody went "muh copyright, muh children".
You don't want imput? Don't post, then.
>>46357239
The guy who started the previous thread had a different idea in mind for it and asked, very politely, that this one doesn't get turned into its own project separate from it so as to not ruin his future attempts at getting it right. There's nothing unreasonable about asking that he at least respect that person by asking him for permission before going full namefag and releasing a game based on this, since he already seems to be planning at least that far.
>>46357269
really complex cartography, since clouds are always on the move. I love this. It's like cartography, biology and astrology are fused together in a sweet weird science.
>>46357330
If he wants to write a book I have amazing software suggestions for him. A public anonymous forum is not one of them.
>>46357310
Not the same person. I'm of the moderate party. Continue doing your own thing if you like, but credit the original poster. You'll just be saving yourself headaches later.
>>46356904
How the hell is this a "dick move"? He asked for a setting, I with contributions from other anons made the setting. He said to get lost. He called all the world building faggotry. It's not my fault if I create while he complains.
He did nothing but postulate "Flying Nobles". That's it. Think of this as Stan Lee Steve Ditko thing. Stan Lee suggested a teenage superhero named Spider-Man. Ditko did everything else.
>>46357021
This is still the brainstorming period. A lot of the ideas about floating vegetation and rocks sound extremely tempting. I might have to replace the semi-solid stuff with something more plausible.
>>46357088
I suggested that some flyers become "aeronaughts" and strive to go out into space
>>46357169
>Nobles are literally cold blooded
This has potential...
>>46357206
Except I actually did come up with those ideas you stupid dick. The Cloud Castles, the Subterraneans, the Dueling, the Dances, the Thunderheads, The looming threat of flying machines. Those were my ideas.
And he's so eager to claim those ideas he called them unwanted faggotry.
His idea was "Flying Nobles". And magical alt history race wars.
He's free to continue and make his own Alt History Flying Nobles setting. It's entirely possible to create more than one setting based on the single sentence premise just as one can get quite a lot of mileage out of "superhero".
>>46357401
A "Based on an idea by..." should be fair. How would he like to be credited?
>>46357399
>MUHAHAHA! HE MADE THE MISTAKE OF TRUSTING STRANGERS! HE DESERVES TO HAVE HIS IDEAS STOLEN! FUCK ANY FUTURE PLANS HE MAY'VE HAD! SHOULD'VE BEEN MORE PARANOID!
See, this is exactly WHY ethics are a thing. For all you know, he DID have plans for a book and right now you may be ruining them. By acting like a selfish faggot, you're perpetuating the idea that there the rules of basic human interaction do not protect decent people on the internet, which means that next time people would simply not post their ideas here. For all of how 4chan takes pride in being full of assholes, creative boards like /tg/ have everything to lose and nothing to gain from acting like this.
>>46357424
>A "Based on an idea by..." should be fair. How would he like to be credited?
You're asking me? Ask him. Try on the other thread or something. If he doesn't respond just link to the post and do something like "Some anon suggested X". /tg/ has done things like that before, even when "X" was really short concepts that later got taken in completely different directions.
>>46356800
I wrote about "sky gardens" in the first thread that were kind of like this. They weren't any thing like wild jungles, they were like quiet bowers hidden behind mists with complex, beautiful root systems.
I'm for "Rain-Forests". They're have to be designed carefully though. I don't want them to be continents. Never should it look like they have a "ground". I'm thinking something like a constant Rainforest canopy. Almost like a rough ball.
Any chance for flying megafauna making "Rain-Forests" into nests?
>>46357457
There's a difference between saying "So, I'm going to write a book, here's my premise. Any advice?" and saying "What if X" and absolutely nothing else. The first, yes, it would be a dick to steal it. The second has no reason for us not to use it.
>>46357659
You're grasping at straws in here. You clearly understand that you're doing is wrong, and you're attempting to justify it. Nobody's asking that you dump all of your ideas. So far, requests have ranged from "give the guy credit" to "ask for his permission before proceeding". None of these require you to spill your blood.
>>46356669
>What if we just had some kind of lighter-than-air mineral or rock, only capable of floating up to a certain point in the atmosphere but still vulnerable to weight?
Instead why not have 'artifacts' up in the clouds like in STALKER. Thunder artifacts, sun artifacts, rain stones, snow poffs etc. This could create the reasons for turf wars and resource gathering.
It sounds like the sun clouds already fit nicely with this.
>>46357369
Bingo. This is what we've been needing. A reason to have the Flyers up in the air in the first place (besides being able to drop shit on lowlies).
They're obsessive mappers. There are mysteries in the sky, because the sky is constantly in motion like the earth bound waters. They want to know and discover and learn. And find the choicest "Weather Eggs" to build their castles out of.
>>46357369
>Cartography, biology and astrology are fused together in a sweet weird science
I love this! Our world has its own unique scientific discipline! What should we call it?
>>46357457
Having plans for a book, going on line to harvest the thoughts and ideas of others, and then publishing the work when your only contribution is a sentence is the epitome of being a dick.
One does not ask for work to be done and then claim they did the work.
If I have an idea for a Superhero and then get Grant Morrison to write it from the plot to the characters to the setting is Grant stealing from me by claiming its his work? Fuck no.
You're the one ethically bankrupt Anon. Writing is about work. It is not a game of "be the one to claim the idea first".
>>46357659
This. If he had been upfront about it I'd listen to his complaints seriously. But letting people do all the imagining for you just to go "nuh uh, its my setting, do it right or not at all!" is a truly dick move.
>>46357731
Oh no. He gets one line of credit to match his one line of contribution. He asks us to stop the answer is no.
>>46357330
Id just like to say that your internet morality is really out of step and clearly ignores the fact that some people come up with ideas which they then turn to shit and really SHOULD be taken over by someone else. Its not like they should own the rights to a story just to ruin it.
That said, i also support his euro-centric view rather than wanking off every country that thinks it should be included. For example; china, that has a really bad case of the 'should be's' instead of the 'actually is's'.
>>46357808
Let's just not answer him. If he wants to keep on discussing about internet ethics he can do it alone.
But the cartography is pretty neat, I think. It's a leisurely activity, fitting for nobles. How about Nephology? The greek radical for cloud plus the -ology (since I like the vague esoteric connection) What do you think?
>>46357533
I was thinking more of icebergs. They are big like islands, they sometime split or crash together depending on winds. Cumulus are the most dense, so I suppose they would be the ones to have plants on them. Other clouds would have nothing more than grass, lichen and other small plants, no trees. Cumulonimbus are the biggest but they would have nothing on them since they'd be Thunderheads.
Birds would certainly have adapted. You can have the whole range of birds, from the smallest to the biggest (like the andean condor) that can hunt a man.
I don't think fantasy critters are really necessary. Birds should provide enough life and challenges.
>>46357659
Pretty much this. I think everyone has made his positions clear and won't bulge. No need to continue that discussion, let's concentrate on worldbuilding on both threads.
>>46357808
>What should we call it?
Throwing Nimtography out there. For nimbus which is latin for dark cloud. (dark cloud could be the ancient name before solid cloud and semi-solid cloud)
>>46357808
>If I have an idea for a Superhero and then get Grant Morrison to write it from the plot to the characters to the setting is Grant stealing from me by claiming its his work? Fuck no.
Actually, depending on the legal terms involved, he very well might be. As I've been repeatedly stressing, however, 4chan has no laws, no lawyers, and no C&D orders. This is why it is vital that it has morals, enforced and observed by its people.
>clearly ignores the fact that some people come up with ideas which they then turn to shit and really SHOULD be taken over by someone else. Its not like they should own the rights to a story just to ruin it.
I don't even know how to respond to this kind of reverse logic. It's his idea, who are you to say what's the right or wrong way to handle it? I may not like Rowlings' idea of pairing up Ron and Hermione, but it doesn't give me the right to release my own version of The Deathly Hallows (except as fanfiction, which is all about acknowledging the original author). In fact, to draw the point further, quite a few stories about magic schools that popped up following the early 2000's Harry Potter craze WERE, in fact, hit with legal action, even if it couldn't be proven that the author "couldn't have" come up with the idea on his own.
Don't get dragged down into arguments about intellectual property on fucking 4chan. Just give the guy his fucking credit and be done with this.
>>46357982
How about Ætherology ? It got a notion of divininty and plain smug superiority that is fitting, I think. (Æther being the god of the upper states of the sky in greek mythology; the lower strates are Ær, the air that mortals breathe)
Hoping no one missed this \/
>>46357748
This is fucking stupid, he doesn't own the concept of flying nobility because he posted about it once. It's like claiming a recent movie is plagiarizing you because you had the same idea when you were a child or trademarking the word "react"
>>46358125
I like it. Although Æther does basically translate into "pretentious anime drivel," so we'll have to be careful. Also, I'm not sure I like the whole "floating clouds" thing, as I've said before. I dislike the idea of blatantly breaking physics any more than we have to; maybe it's a lifetime of indoctrination of cape comics, but "people flying" breaks less than "solid clouds." Or maybe it's just that I took a meteorology course for honors credit at one point, I don't know. I like the idea of Fliers being able to shape clouds, I really do, but that should be a rare and generally not-so-useful power for anything large-scale.
>>46358214
You know Tarantino actually went on to credit the guy in the hair salon whose random misheard line (Tarantino never even got to find out what the conversation was about) gave him the idea for the name "Reservoir Dogs"? It's just being respectful to your fellow men, on principle. "I had all those ideas, but this particular idea I admit I wouldn't have had if not for this guy" (or in the case of this thread, "I had all of those ideas but never would've had any of them in the first place if not for this guy"). This is especially true in the case of people who went on to benefit from said ideas, whether it's the recognition of using them in a movie or of releasing a setting book on 4chan.
>>46358327
Man, Tarantino is such a good guy.
Alright, let's move on.
>>46358235
What? Your throwing out 'cloud castle' just because its unrealistic??
Sorry but this is essential.
>>46358458
Clearly, you should start your own project, with cloud castles. Don't forget to imply you'll turn it into a document of some sort, too, so you can get emotional defending its uniqueness.
>>46358171
>>46357748
This could tie into the Goodly Ones. Their mirror cities have strange mirror objects that work in ways similar to what they reflect, but always in a weird way.
>>46358086
>>46358125
>>46357982
Hm...ah, they're all so good!
>>46358000
This is a great post. I love how fluid and dynamic the "Rain-Forests" are becoming and how they open up a lot of options for fluff and color. The Ice Berg comparison is brilliant. They collide, they crack, they split.
>I don't think fantasy critters are really necessary
I won't to keep the amount of fantasy creatures low. I think I might already be pushing things with Thunderheads and Goodly Ones.
The idea of most "monsters" in the setting being just birds is really need. Its something no other setting has and really distinguishes ours.
Would insects be a possibility? I don't mean like giant magic insects, I mean regular ones.
>>46358458
I believe the setting is flexible enough to be bent to suite certain tastes. If semi-solid clouds are too whimsical one can easily use Rain-Forests instead. Or one could have both in the setting.
>>46358488
I'm totally fine with someone making their own setting involving cloud castles. I promise I won't throw a hissy fit in his thread and demand he recognize my ownership of all cloud castle concepts.
>>46358533
>I'm totally fine with someone making their own setting involving cloud castles. I promise I won't throw a hissy fit in his thread and demand he recognize my ownership of all cloud castle concepts.
Well, it wasn't yours in the first place. "Thief from a thief, and all.
>>46358235
I'm with you there, I see no reason for clouds to be solid just because people happen to be able to fly, but let's not turn that into a second schism.
I think the "plants on clouds provide support" idea is a nice middle ground, allowing for floating islands without breaking physics too much.
If we keep the healing kings from the previous thread, we could have them* be able to shape clouds. Nice little power that creates a lot of flavor but isn't too unbalanced.
Goes well with the idea that kings are divine vessels, too, if stormclouds are already considered gods.
*Maybe alongside some prophets, saints and/or rare noble mutants.
>>46358458
No, I'm not saying that. I like "flying castle," but having an entire castle literally made out of clouds is just a bit too far over the line. Maybe something like a normal castle, but flying because magic rocks, and with some cloud-based decorations? Cloud gargoyles would be amazing. Now I want gargoyles as a feral race, basically the orcs of the setting - capable of clumsy, pathetic flight, but flight nonetheless.
>>46358563
Oh shut up already. We already said we'd give him a little credit, didn't we?
>>46358577
This could also work. Maybe the plants have a tendency to coalesce clouds around them (physics-wise, this works, because clouds tend to form around particles in the air) and are self-suspending, with bladders full of magic floating gas? Hell, you could get entire ecosystems up there, with plants living, dying, and decaying into fertile soil.
Got to break for dinner. We've made a lot of progress so far. I'll work to organize it.
Thinks I would like to see focused on:
Different bloodlines with differing abilities. Maybe we could use the "warm air sheathe" vs "antifreeze blood" distinction as a spring board?
Different Skyholds. How do these separate bloodlines manage their groundlings?
And finally, gargoyles. How would they work? I take from >>46358646
Good night thread!
>>46358646
>Clouds vs Plants
Like I posted earlier I believe its possible to run the setting with one or the other or both.
>>46358646
Ignore him. He'll charge you a quarter for copying his "shit posting" concept.
>Plants on plants doing plants
I really, really, really love these "Rain Forest" ideas. You could run an entire adventure in one of them!
Nobles were supposed to portect their peasants during the middle ages. Problem here is that it's pretty hard to get in touch with someone that is in a sky castle or on the top of a mountain.
How do this work? Do the peasants have really powerful horns to alert the nobles in case of attack? Is every the village and farm fortified so it can hold its own until the local noble checks what's going on? Do the nobles have small fortresses/watchposts with a couple of flyers near the villages to provide defense or fly to the castle and rouse the guards? Are they simply raiders that terrify the groudfolks and provide no protection, just threats? Or are nobles residing in ground mansions most of the time, the sky castles being like hunting pavilions and being used for balls and holidays?
>>46358533
>insects
Definitely.
I've seen bees and flies land on my ship when I was 6 miles away from the nearest coast. They would totally colonize clouds (and it's necessary for a really viable ecosystem).
>>46358834
I suppose our nobles are the removed-from-everyday-issues-until-revolution kind. They wouldn't be much concerned with the day to day of the peasants (as long as they pay taxes) and just regulate airship and balloon operating.
>>46358733
>Gargoyles
I would use them like unique mythological beasts or medieval dragons rather than a fantasy npc race.
Very rare and old, most people don't know if they're real or not.
Emerged from the Earth when the subterraneans dug there, or pitiful remnants/former servants of a titan-like race that went to waragainst the Thunderheads?
Lots of rainforests are probably inexplored, who knows what lurks in there. Could be nice to have old ruins and mysteries from antiquity or the age of gods hidden inside for the brave young nobles.
Anyways, folks seing a gargoyle would create some nice legends about werewolf-like nobles.
>>46358733
You managed to reply to me three times. I don't actually know how. Anyway...
>Gargoyles
Big hulking gorilla-like leather-skinned monsters with oversized bat wings. Basically, they're the offspring of a groundling that managed to really annoy the Kindly Folk. Or, as the gargoyles themselves say, received the blessing of one of the Kindly Folk. Nobody knows for sure.
>Clouds vs plants
My main argument about solid clouds is that it drags us a bit too far into "It's magic, I don't have to explain shit." I mean, we're pretty far in there already, but this is just the tipping point for me.
>Rain forest
I hoped we'd like it. It lets us get the idea of walking on clouds without actually having to solidify clouds, and it gives the Subterraneans a good reason to be angry - they are keeping Earth from the ground, how dare they?!
>>46358834
Noblesse oblige. Someone has to make sure all the dirty groundlings don't kill each other, after all, and if it means staying on the *ugh* GROUND I guess we'll have to.
>>46359069
Also intriguing. Maybe, if we're willing to go far enough into ancient-aliens territory, that could be the source of legends about solid clouds - temples made of a cloudy, perpetually warm, mysterious rock or glass floating in the skies far away, toppled towers floating just a little away from their broken-of bases, mysterious artifacts and runes carved into the interiors? Sign me the fuck up. The Kindly Ones are getting more and more mysterious by the minute.
>>46356800
>Besides, it allows for easier to manufacture aeroplanes, provided that floated wood doesn't lose its levitating powers.
Mountainers would claim wood from clouds that brush the slopes, and make planes (skyboats?) with it.
>>46358979
It's alright as long as we go with the plague idea, I guess. It should keep the groundlings sufficiently in check.
What prevents bands of highwaymen and underground folks to raid the peasants, though?
>>46356800
This I like, a lot. Not so sure about fauna that can fly like people; maybe there are a few creatures that can, but those would be probably be protected creatures and prized by the nobility, kinda like an exotic pet. I mean, CLEARLY they've been blessed as well, right? Could make for a good start for a groundling PC if the creature is large enough - found an injured one and now rides it, rebel against the natural order or some shit?
>>46359386
>>46356800
>Not so sure about fauna that can fly like people;
Oh shit, I meant flora. I was still only talking about the plants.
Yeah, I'd rather have flying animals being limited to birds and the occasional mythical gargoyle.
Well, now that you mention it, maybe one or two species that can fly, but I think it should be very restricted or it becomes silly (the tale of Jehan the farmer and the floating cow...).
Some kind of rare giant snake that can go from cloud to cloud to eat birds? At least it has no paws so it won't pedal while flying.
>>46359204
>Gargoyles
How about calling them Zotz or Xotz, just to make them their own thing. Homage to the Dominions 4 race.
You know, call it crazy but I got an idea about the "weather egg" clouds. I know the magic clouds don't seem too popular, but what if they were the actual eggs of...some kind of creature. No a Thunderhead. They eat the Sun Clouds right? But its an egg with something. The mini-environment inside the cloud is like a placenta. Its an ideal environment for whatever grows inside it.
Sometimes these clouds are fertilized, and when breaking a cloud open Flyers might find something more than weather.
Now I don't want to say Sylph race but...Sylph race?...Angel race?
Is my idea just retarded?
>>46353559
Yea i don't like where this is going. There is likely going to division between the SkyFolk and Groundlings that will keep on getting worse and worse as time passes. Once Anit-Air Weapons developed there is going to a huge bloodshed.
>>46353559
I'm appreciative of the romantic art style, but not super appreciative of the sentiment that predominated the art style.
>>46359204
>>46353559
This concept sounds really similar to pic related.
>>46361927
Intrigueing, anon. I suggest we think on this some more.
How would something like Gryphons fare as part of the fauna? They're majestic and could be considered the "good" counterpart to gargoyles: Almost mythical, but prized by the Sky Knights and honoured as representatives of the gods' will.
>>46361927
>I know the magic clouds don't seem too popularI like them
And your idea is good.
>>46363328
Yeah, having the nobility not being total dicks and actually doing noble things and halping Groundlings would be nice
>>46359249
>>46363328
>>46368862
Nothing prevents them.
I think the tension between the apparent safety of the nobility and the imminent threat that the peasants revolt and finally learn how to build a decent airplane is the engine that keeps this moving.
Also answering this I suppose.
In other words I don't see them as total dicks. Just as completely removed from everyday affairs (and not all nobles would be the same). Of course it's a revolution waiting to happen but, as I said, for me that is the real tension and heart that keeps the setting moving.
Just how many plot hooks can you think about (for both sides) from that simple opposition?
>>46369046
I fucked up my post.
>>46368862
>Yeah, having the nobility not being total dicks and actually doing noble things and halping Groundlings would be nice
they would need to be at least a bit nice, since groundlings provide thir food and manpower.
Services provided by the nobles could be work opportunities (they're filthy rich, after all), justice, protection against subterraneans, highwaymen, other countries and gargoyles, appeasing the thunderheads to crops aren't ruined, courrier between cities (very useful for merchants), and simply being fabulous.
That plus tradition, religion, and lack of interaction meaning that they wouldn't clash often.
Still, there are plenty of examples of unfair caste societies.
>>46369046
>>46369310
The set up is no more unfair than any other caste system throughout real history. And I imagine treatment of the Groundlings varies by Skyhold. While its extremely rare to find a Flyer that believes Groundlings are their equal they nonetheless tend to believe Groundlings are due protection and fairness.
>>46369585
They keep the groundlings safe from thunderheads and in use the magic clouds to control the weather to help their crops. They take care of their groundlings.
Good morning thread!
Things that need to be discussed:
Gargoyles, Gryphons, Slyph creatures, and other magical sky beings. I feel they're worth some expanding.
It is true that we risk stretching the setting too far with too many magical creatures, but I feel as if a handful more could strengthen the setting as long as we don't make them too critical to the goings on of the chief concern of Sky Knights, which is Groundlings and Flyers.
Think of the creatures as supplemental. They can be added or dropped from a game's setting per the taste of the DM.
A "falconry" class in Flyer and Groundlings flavors.
Adventures in "Rain-Forests". What secrets and dangers lie in these "green clouds"?
Different bloodlines with slightly different Flying Abilities.
>>46371457
Gargoyles.
Well, lets start with the basics. Gargoyles are rocky little monsters on the sides of Cathedrals. They're often depicted with wings. Rain water goes through their backs and out their mouths making gurgling sounds.
The elements important to the game are the elements important to linking it to the sky. So it can fly, wings or not, in spite of being rocky. And it gurgles rainwater.
Perhaps gargoyles evolved in such a way that they pull up waste materials in their bodies and need to "flush" themselves with rain water. Water is like their blood, and it needs to be replaced like the oil in a car with fresh water or they die.
So Gargoyles mark out their territory in Rain-Forests or by water filled Egg Clouds. They protect their water sources just like animals on the ground do with lakes and pools. (Thunderheads on the other hand are a different matter entirely. They'll crush their stony bodies like paper cups.)
When it rains packs of Gargoyles dive into clouds ("real" ones this time) to feed on the downpour. They'll even dive up into a black thundercloud. The lightning barely bothers them, and Gargoyle specimens tend to acquire black marks where the lightning struck them. The older the Gargoyle the more marks it is likely to have.
"Always listen to a raincloud before you investigate. If you hear a gargling sound odds are a pack of Gargoyles are drinking".
The low, thundering sound Gargoyles make when they drink combined with their lightning charred bodies creates folklore that suggests Gargoyles are children of lightning. Perhaps even created by lightning just as Sylphs are said to be the children of wind and Thunderheads are said to be children of Thunder.
Adding credence to the theory is the hard material (fuggerite) left behind when lightning strikes the Earth. The material is strangely like Gargoyle flesh...
How's this so far?
>>46371688
FULGURITE. I have no idea where "fuggerite" came from.
I sort of like the idea of this being a semi-animistic world where natural processes are filled with generative powers. Should parthenogenesis be a thing in this world (at least for meteorological phenomena)?
So how do they fly in spite of being heavier than air?
Maybe it has something to do with them being "born from lightning" if such a thing is indeed more than folklore. They use electromagnetism to fly.
Maybe they're made out of "floating" rocks as suggested in earlier posts.
One piece of folklore says they are actually exiled Goodly ones. When the city of the Goodly Ones copies a city during its travels it will sometimes copy a particularly wicked man not as he appears but as he actually is--ugly and monstrous. His ugly duplicate is cast out from from the city of the Goodly Ones for his ugliness, doomed to forever wander the skies shouting gargled unintelligible curses.
Legend has it that only the man copied by the Gargoyle can understand its mutterings. Another legend states that Gargoyoles forever curse the name of the man they copied and that those with a good ear can make out the name from the gargled noise.
Or Gargoyles could be plants. Very hard, dense plants. Its a strange existence in the Rain-Forests after all.
Now for a big question. How intelligent should these suckers be?
And what should their role be in the game? Should they be more or less the goblins of the world? Small violent XP fodder?
Personally I want to build on the "menagerie" quality of real life Gargoyles. I want a variety of little bastards PCs can fight against. And some big bastards as well.
But I'm worried about making Gargoyles the Orc/Gnoll/Bugbear/Kobold/Goblins. It bothers me.
What do you think?
>>46371831
Why are you worried about this? I originally came up with them as the orcs of the sky. I like what you did with them, but I was originally going with the Discworld style of gargoyle, albeit more bulky and ungainly.
>>46371831
Gryphons. Griffins. The Lion Bird things.
In real life they're a chimera created to embody the king of beasts and the king of birds. Let's use that idea. This is after all a setting about flying kings. The Griffon is the king of birds. Flyers consider the creatures to be a reflection of themselves. It rules over animals just as they rule over people.
The Griffin is so appropriate to the setting symbolically that I wouldn't mind if it became a symbol for the book. It would be a lot easier to convey the ideas and themes of the setting than a picture of a flying guy.
Griffons are considered birds by the Flyers, not half birds half lions. Griffons are just very big, very powerful birds. As such they're sacred animals. God help a Groundling who shoots an arrow at one or worse, tries to put a saddle on one. Even a Skyhold with a moderate relationship with its Groundligns is likely to put him to death for such a crime against nature.
Griffons make their homes in Rain-Forests. They tend to prey on other, smaller birds thus enforcing its image as the lord of all bird kind. They tend to hunt and live alone, only mingling with other griffons during a rutting season to produce young. They are fiercely territorial. There is rarely more than one Griffon per Rain-Forest.
"The Griffon is a king and the Rain-Forest is his Sky Castle".
Griffons are sometimes adopted as "pets" by Flyers. There is a code of conduct for "owning" a Griffon and a Flyer risks losing honor if he violates it. There are certain things one must always do with a Griffon and certain things one must never do.
"Griffon Keeper" Class?
>>46372096
It's probably just me worrying that they aren't unique enough as creatures. I'm probably worrying over nothing.
>More bulky and ungainly
I want there to be a variety of gargoyle types. So you can have small, mean bastards and big bulkly ones. Some have wings. Some have goat heads.
>>46372184
Griffons must never be removed from the forest. If a Flyer keeps a Griffon he must also keep the Griffon's forest. This has caused Flyers to sometimes go to great lengths to orient a certain Rain-Forest around their Sky Hold just to keep a certain favored Griffon.
Griffons may be trained and used in combat. They are considered as knights in service to their liege lord.
A Griffon must never be saddled or rode. The exception comes in the case of women, being generally weaker flyers than men. They are allowed to ride a Griffon. This is considered a chivalrous act on the Griffon's behalf for his lady. If the woman happens to find herself in combat she may ride the Griffon into battle.
Some Skyholds hold different views about Griffon Conduct. One allows and even encourages riding Griffons into combat. They believe that through this the Griffon achieves a greater connection to his keeper and that the two fight together as a greater whole.
Other Skyhold believes that Griffons are the reincarnation of past kings. When a new Griffon dies, a king somewhere is born and vise versa. Their constant fights with other Griffons over territory and mates is but a repetition of the fights they waged for land and the honor of their lady loves in their past human lives.
The Griffon closest to the Skyhold's main Sky Castle is said to be the previous King, and it is the duty of every new prince in this certain Skyhold to seek out his father, now an animal.
What happens next depends again on Skyhold idiosyncrasies. Some must fight the Griffon to the death in single combat. It is believed that the Griffon will not slay his son under any circumstance, and so if the young prince falls to the Griffon he is considered a secret bastard. It is possible this custom arose following fears of an uncertain succession in a certain Skyhold.
>>46372487
Sometimes it is said that by slaying his father the young prince lays his soul to rest. The old king's soul is freed from the body of an animal and ascends to the land beyond the Cold Dark.
Is it alright to call space the "Cold Dark" or is that kind of a meh name?
Still other Skyholds believe that it is the duty of the prince to awaken the noble mind trapped inside the Gryphon by taming it and fighting side by side with it against the enemies of the Skyhold.
These princes believe that they to will become a Griffon when they die, and that one day their son or grandson or great grandson will seek him out so that together they defeat the enemies of their eternal family.
The Menagerie of Gargoyles
Returning now to these rocky creatures.
I think it would be cool if we not only made a little bestiary of Gargoyle types but set aside a table or something for DMs to "customize" a group of Gargoyles. They won't all be uniform. Some in the mob will have horns. Others claws. Some will be really big. Some will have really big arms. This is why a group of Gargoyles is called a "menagerie".
If they're going to be the "low level badguys" of the setting I want them to be special and memorable, not just flying rock goblins. I think we're on the right track of accomplishing this.
Also, why do Gargoyles sit on the sides of Cloud Castles? The answer is that those are dead Gargoyles, arranged like trophies from a hunt to show the power of the local Sky Lord.
