Ok /tg/ if i loot with Jace and there are 4 cards in the grave and i discard a madness card and dont play it will Jace flip?
>>46348425
Yes, you discarded the card. Jace ability checks if there's 5 card and it flips. If you pay the madness, jace ability resolves first and he doesn't flip.
>>46348450
I just read onther site that the madness card would go to exile THEN Jace checks for 5....
>>46348490
When you discard a card with madness you're given the option to pay the madness as a special action. If you choose yes it's put in the exile zone, if you choose no, it goes to the yard.
>>46348500
This is incorrect.
This is "new" rule starting with this set for Madness.
When you discard a Madness card, it enters exile. At this point Jace's ability would enter resolution and check for 5 cards. Only 4 are in the GY and the madness card in exile, then you're able to play your exile card. If not, it moves to the GY.
The judge during the LRR Pre-Prerelease brought this up
>>46348531
Ohhh thanks
Now i think Jace is not going to do as well as people think
>>46348552
lol
>>46348778
You disagree?
>>46348863
Hell still be a format all star. With or without madness.
>>46348918
Jace is never going to flip, you'll loot once if you're lucky
>>46348863
This situation that is discussed in this topic is really irrelevant on how playable Jace is. The situation only occurs when you have 4 cards in graveyard and want to get madness on the spell you are discarding with Jace. You have the option of discarding the card normally or discarding another card if you really want to flip jace. Or you can madness the spell and flip jace next turn. And that is only with 4 cards in the graveyard.
>>46348952
excuse me nigga but
(source: starjew games)
>>46349055
Are you going to pay that much for Jace?
I hope you and others do
When you get shit on by aggro your are going to sell them for next to nothing
>>46349015
Ok bud
>>46349101
What I'm saying is that Jace is, indeed, used in many many successful standard decks.
The guy's been around for a while and has proved his worth. If he were worthless then we would have figured that out long ago. Apparently there is more to life than "getting shit on by aggro".
(Also I don't play blue in standard, in case that's relevant)
>>46349101
Because jace was totally unplayable in infinite removal and rhinos: the format. Right?
>>46349143
He "was" used in a lot of standard decks lol
>>46349170
Just look up recent standard decks and you'll see that he is actually used. In my opinion, if the graveyard mechanics in new Innistrad are actually used he'll still be quite useful.
You're incorrigible, I'm out
>>46349101
>your are going to sell them for next to nothing
>>46349216
BEHOLD YOUR NEW GOD
>>46348500
>>46348490
>>46348450
A Madness card ALWAYS gets exiled when discarded.
Jace makes you discard the card into exile, regardless of whether you want to madness it or not. Jace will check whether you have 5 cards or not before you get to make a Madness choice since its part of the same discard ability. After Jace's ability has resolved THEN the madness trigger goes on the stack, madness card still in exile. You then choose to pay its cost or not, then it goes to the graveyard no matter what.
So if you have 4 cards in your graveyard and discard a madness card, you will still only have 4 cards in graveyard when Jace checks to flip. AKA, he wont filp.
>>46349296
So now Jace is not as good
>>46349302
Yes. He also isn't as good because fetchlands are rotating out. So you can't splash for him so easily and you can't fill your yard for him.
And do keep in mind he sees little to no play in Modern and Legacy. A lot of people like to say he does, but its mostly just Legacy Reanimator as a 2 of.
>>46349334
So he is going to drop significantly in price after new standard gets rolling
>>46349334
He's still not that hard to flip. There's a ton of self mill support in this set. Jace into assemble the pieces flips him on turn 3.
>>46348425
No, if there discarded card would be the 5th card and has madness Jace does not flip.
>>46349403
Not as easy to flip as he was
Not worth as much now
>>46349484
Well to be fair after the first few turns he'll be able to flip whenever.
Jace is now a $20 card
>>46349398
He'll drop, the question is how much and how quickly. I probably wouldn't expect him to go below 50 until he rotates, purely on price memory.
>>46349776
I think 50 is kinda high. He was 50 when everyone found out he was good. Before that he was 30
Wait, with Delirium and how much self mill and sac effects Innistrad has, doesn't that make Jace easier to flip regardless of the fact that he doesn't play very well with Madness?
>>46349296
>However, the Shadows over Innistrad update did subtly alter the process of discarding a card with madness. Previously, a player discarding a card with madness made two choices. First, that player could choose to discard the card into exile rather than the graveyard. Then, if the card was discarded into exile, that player could choose to cast the spell immediately for its madness cost, or to let the card continue to the graveyard as usual. The first part of this process is no longer optional: a card with madness is always discarded into exile, after which the player can choose whether to cast it, or let it continue to the graveyard
You guys do realize that often you don't want to flip Jace immediately anyway and using him as a madness outlet is crazy card advantage.
>>46350156
Ok so say you flip Jace, now wut do you do? You dont have all those awesome 3 color spells to flash back
>>46350226
Thank you for the rules citation
>>46350271
>using jace cautiously and not using his flashback or breaking the opponents beater is crazy card advantage
Its tempo, not card advantage
>>46350271
Fiery impulse is still in standard lol
>>46350428
drawing a card then playing a madness spell is also card advantage
