I'm DMing Numenera right now. As a DM, I never have a "correct" path for the players. I always have a backdrop and several plot hooks to choose from their own way, yet they STILL wait around for an indication as to where they're "supposed" to go.
This is so infuriating. Does /tg/ have any advice on this matter?
>>46272322
Find or encourage a player to make a character that is actually self-motivated, that has a want beyond kill the baddies, take their stuff, rescue the (correct) princess. Have them come up with something for them to work towards, be it recognition, titles, land, honors, or what have you.
>>46272322
Sadly not. I have the same problem.
Or I would, if I hadn't established a noble patron for them who can always find something for them to do.
The patron is sort of morally dubious, but they go to him because it's "easy".
I'm starting to wonder what consequences this noble having a band of powerful mercenaries practically at his beck and call should have.
I plan a session out just a few days before I actually hold it, that way I can account for previous events. I have a FB group for our game where I posted several strange happenings they could investigate with the addendum "Please discuss your plans here."
I reminded everyone a few days ago by text message to use the FB page. I only JUST NOW got a post basically saying "Let's do hook B, I guess." The session is tomorrow at noon, so I have to plan shit out by then.
>>46272415
Oh man, the last game I played in was Star Wars Age of Rebellion. I created this utterly repugnant and defiant soldier to give the commander a challenge in reigning in this loose cannon. When there was a problem, I would always suggest the most pointlessly violent option with as many casualties as possible.
The commander was too chickenshit to do anything about my character and the other players just filed in behind me, much to my disgust. It basically turned into Cawadooty: The Tabletop of running in and shooting everything without any thought. Cops, civilians, didn't matter. Me and the DM were sick of it and agreed that the Alliance should put us on trial for war crimes. Most of them actually were disappointed in themselves for allowing themselves to be dragged down that path.
Most players most the time want to be tugged along on the leash. Leave a little slack, let them sniff a tree now and then, but drag them along.
The larger your game is, the more you have to provide EXPLICIT CLUES THAT HERE IS THE PLOT PEOPLE, or else it gets lost in the shuffle.
The best trick is to take the plots they don't follow and roll them right back into whichever bait they do take. All roads lead to Rome.
>>46272702
Grim, but pragmatic and it works.
>>46272702
I gave explicit clues. The whole game is about discovery. The first session had a big revelation where a phenomena they were investigating was a godlike entity. The players seemed to believe that this godlike entity is the BBEG that they are "supposed" to defeat. I reminded them that ignoring it was absolutely on the table.
I posted on the FB page basically saying "You can work against Godthing, OR you can investigate the silent screaming man who was reportedly in city X for hundreds of years OR you can check out this alternate universe where something is happening OR you can dig around this tomb that's emitting cold energy throughout a desert."
I know that's a lot of options, but I have to pull teeth to get even a minimal amount of feedback.
>>46272954
Alright, I was a bit too flippant there. Sorry. When i say explicit clues for the plot, I should have said "directly address them with the plot".
Have an NPC beg them to help against Godthing. If they say no, have the next bring up the screaming man. if THAT is too dense for them, have the plot outright attack them (a portal opens up and sucks one of them through).
Your players are in a reactive state of mind. Most are. They expect you to serve up the story so they can look dramatic and roll stuff. So to get the ball rolling you have to do stuff TO them.
The hard part there is to find the right balance of how to smash them with plot without encouraging them to turtle. Don't open with murdering their family - open with their little sister crying because zombies invaded the farm and almost killed somebody. You want something that might be threatening but won't end the world if they don't respond right now (or else they resent you for forcing them off their asses).
If all that doesn't work, then dude, they don't really want to play that game.
>>46273136
Great advice, it sadly doesn't apply to the Godthing.
I have two players who ARE proactive. One of them is gone for Easter, the other hasn't had her character introduced yet so she (rightly) feels that she cannot be part of the discussion.
In case you're interested, Godthing appears as an elderly, rather eccentric old communist dictator. Nobody but the players even know it exists because one of them was able to pierce the illusion. It claimed to be the One, True, God who was basically content to slowly torment and deprive everyone until eventually withering them away and there ain't shit you can do about it. It said that there are worse things than it out there "But you will never have to meet them, for I will have killed you by then."
>>46272322
Same problem here, man.
No matter what happens, I'm always the leader of the group even as the GM.
I have to herd these people, I don't know why.
>>46272597
>joke's on you, I was only pretending to be That Guy
>>46273416
Alright, so Godthing is probably too big for them to attack right now. What about underlings? Draw up a cardinal who appears to be utterly devoted to the Godthing and plans on taking the PC's shit/driving them out of town/doing something to somebody they're helping as part of his devotions.
This cardinal can immediately begin aggressive actions against them. Then you can bait and switch it into several ways:
The cardinal is a tentacle extruded from Godthing.
or the cardinal knows about the Godthing's evil and wants in
or the cardinal thinks that he'll get what he needs to kill Godthing by taking them out
Numenera tends towards the outright weird. You can get a lot of mileage out of the "Its awful and evil, but keeps things even worse in check" routine. Maybe have them discover an ominous Godthing facility (as in, drag them to it with a chase or something) where they have the opportunity to destroy whatever it does...oops, turns out that keeps the Other Godthing fed.
Also, talk to the other proactive player and work out a way for them to get into game ASAP.
>Be group's Forever DM
>Players pretty well universally love my games, always try to get criticism from them, listen (without judgement or defensiveness) if they have any, almost never get any.
>Be running the third consecutive game with half-assed two session bullcrap attempts at games from them in between.
>Get input on what players want from this game.
>Lead players by the nose with mentor/father-figure during early game so they can immerse in the setting, develop characters.
>Game adapts, various enemies become known, becomes up to players to decide how to move.
>Players choose to find another NPC to lead them by the nose.
>I tell my story of manipulation and betrayal. Father figure captured, NPC-leader is the betrayer.
>New goals, unknown what the NPC-leader who betrayed them's master plan could be.
>Do nothing but keep powering up.
>Dick around pointlessly when they can locate the NPC, and try to save their father-figure.
>Every time I ask what they want to do next time get "I dunno", every time I ask what they want to do this time they respond "I dunno."
>Infuriating.
>Players dick around accomplishing minor goals and amassing god-like powers for over a decade in game time.
>Last boss just gets more and more nasty as time goes on. Players dicked around too long and now it's likely they will be unable to save their father figure, and will probably lose to the betrayer as he has also amassed god-like power, but with the help of two massive organizations, one of which he took via hostile take-over during the manipulation/betrayal arc.
>Even with god like powers and aiming at really minor goals of limited scope and consequence, often face palm at just how bad my players are at problem solving.
TL;DR
>My players are probably going to lose the last encounter and die, and have already failed in their one goal, because they dicked around for over 10 years in game, and didn't give me anything to go on for planning that 10 years of dicking around.
>>46272322
>>46273693
One way is just be straight with them. Tell them outright there's no "correct" and "incorrect" path. Tell them to make their own decisions. Tell them that you aren't going to screw them over or punish them unless they do something completely shoot-yourself-in-the-dick retarded, and even then it'll just be realistic consequences.
You could also do a soft-pedal version of the above. Give them situations with multiple choices and say that you're not going to give them any clues or hints, they're just going to have to decide for themselves. Do this a few times to get them into the mindset.
>>46273839
>get pissed when players don't follow the railroad
>thinks he is a good dm
>>46272322
You aren't planning enough. Happened to me when I first started teaching, and the experience translates well to GMing.
You can't leave anything up to them. An experience that feels open requires a huge amount of planning to account for every possibility.
You're being a lazy GM and you need to get your shit together and give them a proper adventure path. You can't put everything on them the first few sessions because they don't really know the rules, the story, or the general gist of the game you're trying to run.
Stop blaming the players and get to work.
>>46274891
The DM is giving his players multiple options. How this is lazier than the DM just giving them only one of them?
I mean sure, you can argue that they players need more guidance early on, but I don't see how restricting and streamlining necessarily equates to more planning and not being lazy.
