Is Age of Sigmar now a flop or not?
it looks stupid
>>46263977
>goy on The ribbon
Seriously?
Were it a new franchise I'd like it. I like the aesthetic at least, but not as the cost of good old Warhammer.
Half of the range are now Sigmarines. You tell me.
Age of sigmar is a flop
The aesthetics are horrid and stale. The lore is edgy and mostly cool buzzwords (even worse than 40k, way worse)
Game is meh. It would have worked for me if the game came out as an extra suplement to normal fantasy, but age of sigmar destroyed a hobby I was an avid fan of for 25 years. Now I can just throw out my tomb kings and bretonia
>inb4 butthurt
No, I also play high elves and goblins.
btw, Everytime I see sigmarines I die a little inside, truly
No one can say with certainty outside of GW, but how many people do you see playing it?
>>46264008
Do you even have eyes?
That's not the full thing and it's not written in english.
> Go back under your rock shitposter-kun.
>>46264088
Are the sales good or not though?
>>46264487
We don't have any kind of concrete proof one way or the other, but the weight of anecdotal evidence suggests it's doing very poorly in most places.
>>46263977
Fantasy was generic but had personality and charm.
AoS is just dull and even when compared to rest of GW a stupid concept.
>>46264652
>Fantasy was generic
In what way?
>>46264505
>>46264487
http://www.stockcaller.com/it-seems-games-workshop-group-plc-will-go-down-just-reaches-52-week-low/62454/
(FYI most stock articles are [badly] written by robots)
It would be interesting to see a put/call ratio though it's probably too small a company to have much short interest since who's gonna buy it from you?
>>46264665
Humans, elves, dwarves, orks, pre industrial, etc
It is better than most generic fantasy settings, but still generic.
>>46264487
Considering that revenue has dropped according to the last sales report, either 40k has started flopping suddenly (doubt it) or AoS is a big flop.
>>46264219
Haha, how many people did you see play whfb?
Inb4 anecdotal evidence
>>46265419
more than what aos is doing apperantly
>>46265419
Six regular customers at my fifteen regular customer GW.
I have seen zero AoS players, and since AoS launched about half the 40k players left too. It's gotten so bad that our old manager has been fired for dying sales, and the new manager is some 19 year old broseph who has no fucking idea what he's doingand also can't convince people to buy sigmarines.
>>46265436
>>46265477
And my observations have been the opposite. What's your point?
At my LGS it's round bases errywere
>>46265477
>blaming the seller and not the unsellable product
GW in a nutshell
DoA in Huntsville, and I've heard similar from pretty much everyone that came to the Redstone Rumble.
Kings of War has taken off, though. Both at my FLGS and several of the gaming-friendly breweries.
>>46265419
>>46265642
Fuck off shill
>>46266080
Here we come to the crux of AoS threads outside the general.
People are THAT buttblasted by AoS they refuse to admit people may enjoy it.
I do enjoy it, it's a simple easy skirmish game I can play for a few easy mins with models I already had.
It's like people lamenting the loss of the Brets. If the Brets were so fucking beloved, they'd have been played more.
>>46266129
>If the Brets were so fucking beloved, they'd have been played more.
Except GW continuously fucked them over?
Why play an army that never got updated.
>>46266165
>Why play an army that never got updated
Why update an army that never god played.
>>46266191
Why shill a game that is and will never be played
>>46265419
> Asks for anecdotal evidence
> 'Inb4 anecdotal evidence'
>>46265778
Hey now, they also blame the consumer.
>>46266191
Because there were lots of opportunities to sell Arthurian knights by the bucket load if their rules didn't blow chunks.
>>46266239
Even now people just bought historicals instead.
I understand completely why Brets are shelved.
>>46265042
name me one fantasy setting with the human faction being the holy roman empire with landsknecht.
warhammer fantasy is one of the least generic fantasy settings of all time. this is clear to anyone who actually played/read it.
>>46266129
And here we come to the Crux of AoS, people refuse to admit that people enjoyed whfb and that the setting and factions had value.
>>46266228
this tbqh famalam
>>46266289
Were you around in the generals before End Times?
ENDLESS and I mean ENDLESS High Elf, Dark Elf, Vampire counts, Daemons and Warriors. That was the ONLY thing that was talked about because that's what people played the most.
Like it or not, AoS managed to free us from this shit even in the Warhammer Fantasy general.
>>46263977
If sales are a metric that matters, then AoS is a flop. By GW's own admission, 2015, and specifically the holiday season did not meet expectations. The kits are expensive, even by GW standards. The 'free rules' thing is misleading. To get access to the meat of the game (oxymoron, I know) - you need to buy the AoS books, which are also priced higher than typical GW army books. The whole thing seems poorly thought out, and the execution has been even worse.
There is also a mountain of anecdotal evidence from within the industry that AoS is not selling much at all in North America.
Last time I checked, AoS starter sets could be purchased at several places online for 40% off, a few even cheaper than that.
Then there's the models, and the rules. I think everything that can be said about these already has.
>>46266391
I think AoS still is more profitable than WHFB because as it's design, AoS just wants people to buy models and let's you use them fairly easily.
WHFB required a huge investment and each army release was costly because if the army wasn't already popular and the book wasn't strong, then we get the TK release where it was worthless.
>>46265171
Sales have been shrinking for 5 years now, according to the annual shareholders' reports.
>>46263977
Take a guess.
>>46266466
So the Hype of End Times petered out....
>>46266129
>I like AoS, therefore it's not a flop
>I play AoS, therefore no one played WHFB
>It's the customers fault WHFB died
Everyone knows you're an idiot except you.
>>46265171
>either 40k has started flopping suddenly (doubt it)
http://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/33912/top-5-non-collectible-miniature-games-fall-2015
>>46266510
>Getter hyper defensive just because I don't religiously hate AoS
AoS has taken nothing from me, it's taken nothing from you.
Stop fucking crying and just play whatever edition you enjoy.
>>46266448
Unless a miracle occurs, AoS will be unsupported and officially dead within 2 years.
If it is truly selling as poorly as it appears to be, GW will have no choice but to cut their losses.
>>46263977
couldn't have flopped harder
>half the games armies squatted
>players mostly just kept playing 8th or 9th anyway or went to kings of war
>>46266554
>hyper-defensive
I dont think so anon. But if thats what you need to tell yourself, by all means.
>>46265779
>caring about a nation that votes for Trump
>>46266558
Do you have any actual proof?
I mean all I here is people spouting stuff like >>46266578
And think it somehow hurts their install base.
Have you people forgotten WHFB made GW so little money their fucking paints and paintbrushes were making more? Alot more.
AoS is not WHFB, it's clearly much smaller and designed for much less, It's a slow burning franchise where one or two casual releases will keep it going.
>>46266606
and accounts for probably 50%+ of GW's sales.
>>>/b/
Take your adolescent bullshit back where it belongs retard.
>>46266554
>it's taken nothing from you
It actually killed my hobby and literally made a few thousand dollar investment made over a decade and a half worthless.
But ya, sure. AoS is great. Which is why I literally can't sell any models at my store, and despite being the only place in town I can't get more than three people together to play it, when I had at lest ten regulars and 15 irregular WHFB players. The only good thing out of this is that my WHFB day is more popular among the regulars.
>>46266466
Sales always peak Christmas and Autumn
Post year on year
>>46266628
>Have you people forgotten WHFB made GW so little money their fucking paints and paintbrushes were making more?
Source, because we also heard that WHFB was near 30% of their sales and AoS makes only 10%.
>it's clearly much smaller and designed for much less,
Yet still prices make difference smaller and smaller.
>>46266628
How long have you been playing warhammer?
Because I can tell you that people were buying knights before they were £40 pounds for a box of FIVE
>>46266631
If GW cared about USA they wouldn't have installed a bunch of shitheads in Memphis
Literally 50% of USA hq are embezzling and more than that on the shops eg damage product slightly on purpose write off the stock then sell it on the sly
Then there was goth slut who slept with everyone
>>46266658
>Sales always peak Christmas and Autumn
It's not sales it's shares and they are dropping just right after holidays which makes rumors about bad sales more believable.
>>46266638
How? How has AoS killed your hobby? Did the GW police come around to your store and burn your books and models?
... Is this an American thing?
>>46266694
..Are you trying to say AoS is reponsable for shit like Blood Knights now?
Or are you trying to imply GW being jews is a new thing?
>>46266717
>Not know GW shares drop and rise fucking massively anyway
Post the year.
>>46266753
>How has AoS killed your hobby?
May be he is Tomb Kings player.
>>46266799
or one of the other squatted armies
if you go on the website right now the total number of products on "last chance to buy" is ninety five (95)
JUST
>>46266799
You mean one of the 13 in the world?
TK were fucking dead even in 8th when they got their new units.
>>46264088
I mostly see people gutting their kits for parts, but you're not going to make a whole lot of money that way.
>>46266832
You'd be surprised.
I have seen the bret heraldry transfers used more than the models themselves.
Sigmarines are fucking terrible and don't fit the aesthetic or setting, and there is only so much Khorne you can buy.
Its a flop because they're removing 5 item for every 1 put out.
>>46266864
>Sigmarines don't fit the Aesthetic or setting
>Of the fucking setting they are designed for
...wat?
>>46266753
They won't be selling models much longer, the armies that needed an update will never get one, and eventually the game will die out. That's how these things work, once official support is dropped, it's only a matter of time before death. There will eventually be no new players, and the regulars will move on.
>>46266628
>Have you people forgotten WHFB made GW so little money their fucking paints and paintbrushes were making more? Alot more.
Not even 10 years ago WHFB made more money than 40k.
Guess what killed it ?
>>46266911
>Regulars will move on.
...I have not bought a new model for over 10 years and I still play, I still buy models I like off ebay and I still do conversions.
You ARE American ain't you? This is a fucking hobby not some kind of video game addiction, you don't need Sequels everywhere, and if you really do, make your own!
>>46266952
8th edition.
>>46266554
>AoS has taken nothing from me, it's taken nothing from you.
You best be fucking joking nigger
>>46266988
My models didn't vanish overnight.
In fact I played a game with my Orcs yestderday, 6th edition.
Was it a fever dream?
>>46266954
>You ARE American ain't you? This is a fucking hobby not some kind of video game addiction, you don't need Sequels everywhere, and if you really do, make your own!
Man no one gives a shit about your fucking eurocuck opinion. Youre trained at birth to gratefully accept whatever shit is plopped in your slop bowl
>>46266954
Right. Only I own a store and have seen how these things pan out. And I can tell you that in a few years I will have to stop doing WHFB nights because nobody comes in anymore, and then I'll have to replace it with something that's more popular and increases my chances of selling models and paints.
>You have to be American.
I live in America, but I'm an immigrant. That's just the way these hobbies work. You need to jump off whatever high horse you walked in on and realize that there is a reason why people would be mad at AoS. Also, what the fuck do video games have to do with anything?
>>46266969
Matt wards magic phase and massive infantry units being unmovable.
I loved fantasy, I tried to transfer my dark elf corsair force and 2000pt tomb kings legion ive to AoS on its release, but the feel just wasn't the same, no depth or customization. just a mash in the middle with flat dice rolls.
With the dropping of my favourite faction ive dropped it completely. I now just play heresy and prodos games warzone.
My flgs dropped his entire GW as sales plummeted and the local GW itself has lost all bar 4 fantasy players, who all just turn up with the cheesiest things they can image and try to out WAAC each other.
>>46267067
Why is it every single person who decrys a massive "AoS IS DESTROY MY HOBBY" is a store owner?
>>46267070
So 4 fantasy players show up and play 8th edition?
People need to stop pretending this death was somehow not predictable.
8th is what started it all, a chain reaction of stagnant shit.
>>46267097
>People need to stop pretending this death was somehow not predictable.
Yeah, GW slowly kills WHFB for years, since the retconnig of SoC.
>>46266969
Exactly, but I think it's started with the massive "fuck you" they sent to the players after Storm of Chaos.
8th edition infantry powercreep was the nail in the coffin.
>make badly-styled infantry costing 30€ for 10 minis
>wonder why they don't sell
>try to force the sales trough rules
>>46267012
I think the guy was implying that AoS affected the future development of WHF.
So in essence, AoS stole away the future.
>>46266753
Are you just deliberately ignoring the devastating impact AoS had on wargaming communities across the globe?
>>46266954
>...I have not bought a new model for over 10 years and I still play
I think this sort of player (I am one for the record) makes up a good chunk of the WHFB fanbase, and that kinda kills the sales on the game. I know I've not bought much for my Dwarves for at least 2 editions, having 8000 points all told kinda lowers what you need to buy.
>>46266677
>Source, because we also heard that WHFB was near 30% of their sales and AoS makes only 10%.
Chapterhouse case.
>>46267097
Oh no, they play AoS not fantasy, they're just the old WAAC players whove seized the games terrible rules as a chance to try and our cheese each other.
>>46267131
The future wasn't really there, let's say End Times and AoS never get brought to the table, how do we go on?
Big model, occasional core unit release, nothing changes ad infinitum.
WHFB never had a future because it was doomed to stagnation after Storm of Chaos.
But they made the game so much more accessible to new players!
>>46267097
Because we usually know how these things work as our livelihoods are tied to recognizing the trends in wargamming? Especially since I don't do Magic.
Also, I doubt that everyone who said they didn't like AoS is a fucking store owner.
>>46267143
Exactly my point, I have plenty of Warhammer players, some of them even new starters, how do that start?
>Buy cheap army or units on ebay, download book
And all the old guard, well, we already have armies.
>>46267176
Hold the fuck on, that's the old LotR Mumakhil base! The Dragon is bigger than Griffin
>>46266715
>>46267203
Wat
Thats just an oval flyer base
>>46267154
That is what is so sad about the idiots defending AoS with the 'b-but points are for WAAC players!'.
Removing points and army restrictions is a shithead powergamers wet dream because they can take anything they want.
>>46267143
Well when GW made it so you had to spend £40-60 for a single standard infantry block the people who already had big armies were the only ones still playing. New people saw the prices and rightly never bothered.
>>46267153
Actually, everything fucked up could probably be traced back to Chapterhouse.
It's why we suddenly need to have trademarkable items.
Sometimes I wonder if GW even knows the demand curves of their products
Since they don't have a marketing branch, I guess they don't
>>46267229
Jesus I feel old then, It's the same size.
The dragon is still much bigger than the Griffin because Stormcast are bigger than humans by a fair bit.
>>46267176
Fuck me, that dragon is ugly. The armour especially
>>46267173
You are missing the point.
Huge world changing narrative events is the worst thing they could have done, raising the stakes over and over kills interest.
Its a SETTING, things are meant to be constant so people can tell their own stories and know things won't be radically upset. Things like Lustria or Albion campaigns are fine in that respect, its a new thing to play through but it does not mess up the setting.
>>46267273
Why should things be stagnant all the time? That's 40k's problem. Nothing ever happens.
Really what we need is more things like Age of Sigmar to keep settings fresh.
>>46267250
Taking into account the base size, this should be accurate
>>46267154
It's sad that the most fun I've had with this "game" is trying to look for ways to break it. Summoning is the easy way put, but you can also do shit like base characters on terrain features two feet in the air, and abuse two Archons (the old, good model) to spam hero phases over and over until you win.
>>46267315
The angle of the dragon is a little off, but more accurate.
$140 sounds like a Colossal model from Warmachine, and come to think of it, AoS is priced alot like Warmachine.
>>46267312
Still missing the point. Its 'stagnant' so things aren't ruined by horrible shit like Age of Sigmar and so people can tell their own stories.
Settings allow your dudes, what is the point of having a well detailed warband of mercenaries or the guards of a dwarven outpost if the entire world blows up and all the characters you converted and painted are dead?
>>46267250
Its not $140 of big whatever the case. GW prices are set by crazy people who live in a bubble.
>>46267312
Because people love investing hundreds of dollars, hundreds of hours, and their hearts into an army just to have it totally fucking destroyed come next campaign book
>>46267345
>Can abuse two Archons
Pretty sure there are rules for unique heroes.
>High Terrain feature
You know hits need to measure to the model right? So counting the big MODELED base.
>>46267315
Keep in mind the griffin also comes with 4 head options and 3 rider options
>>46267370
>"destroyed"
Oh, you mean like what sometimes happen when a new rulebook comes out?
Look, if you're too poor to buy new models, maybe this isn't the game for you.
>tfw they turned Archaon from one of the best models in the game into an over priced, over designed piece of garbage
Don't even get me started on his fluff.
>>46267391
>Pretty sure there are rules for unique heroes
There aren't. You may "bring any models you like!". There are no further restrictions.
>>46267418
>Shut up nerd. Buy some more models then shut up some more.
>>46267391
>Pretty sure there are rules for unique heroes.
Nope.
>You know hits need to measure to the model right? So counting the big MODELED base.
Again, no. Bases and basing are not counted for measurement, only the figure itself.
>>46263977
It's flopped.
>>46267418
No wonder you like Age of Sigmar if you despise fluffy armies that much.
Guess what, when a company actively drives away its own customers and makes them feel unwelcome they stop supporting their products.
What is it with GW fanboys and this toxic attitude that you must support the company whatever it does and no matter how shitty its products get?
>>46263977
Do people even buy Sigmarines? I have seen a one or two on /wip/ but that's not saying much
>>46263977
Completely. I can't even get AoS in a store anywhere near Seattle anymore, everywhere Fire saled them for 60% off and stopped stocking them
>>46267472
>What's that? This game costs money? Oh come on, give me shitty chinese knockoffs so I can afford to play.
>>46267418
>Oh, you mean like what sometimes happen when a new rulebook comes out?
When the fuck has a new armybook ever literaly destroyed the army it covered in the fluff...?
>>46264487
>Are the sales good or not though?
What sales?
>>46265419
It is still being played at my local GW and LGS
>>46267435
On the AoS specific named models they will usually have an extra rule saying you can only take 1. The new Archaon has this rule
>>46267267
The armor sucks dick but I think the actual body looks okay.
The criticism that AoS looks too much like 40K is definitely valid though, especially in that pic. That armor looks like something straight out of the Imperium and definitely not made for a dragon like that.
>>46267520
Squats.
Oldcrons.
Anyone with early 40k models.
>>46267516
I didnt once complain about the price
All i said is why would someone invest so much into an army that could be destroyed or removed from the fluff at GW's whim?I have enormous Bretonnia and Tomb King armies
>>46267478
>Again, no. Bases and basing are not counted for measurement, only the figure itself.
Care to point out the rules where it says basing?
>>46267539
The old model, the model in question, does not.
>>46267250
Almost as if they were... engineered that way...
>>46267549
So you're poor and you have awful taste in armies.
>>46267563
>>46267315
Good lord.
>>46267267
Its amazing really, my eyes refuse to focus on any one bit for very long but it still looks like the thing can't even unfurl it's wings or bend its knees. It seems to have weird little howdah thing instead of a saddle as well.
>>46267516
All games cost money, its just some actually cost reasonable amounts. Instead of having prices set by people who think their fanbase will gladly swallow any price increase out of blind loyalty.
Plastic infantry should not cost more than $2 a model, the Perry brothers are better sculptors than everyone at modern GW put together and they release multi-part kits at $1.50 a model or less.
>>46267578
Look, why don't you sell all your crap and invest in a good army, like Chaos?
>>46267558
It so dense, every miniature is full of images.
>>46267549I have spent upwards of five thousand US paper rectangles on my Bretonnia army.
Fastest selling last chance to buy models though. I have to hold onto the hope that they'll New Coke AoS...but even if they do, what assurance do I have that there will be a place for Bretonnia in the new order?
I kind of like the Stardrake but everything else looks meh
>>46267552
Right here
Page 1 of 4: Paragraph "Tools of War"
>A model’s base isn’t considered part of the model – it’s just there to help the model stand up – so don’t include it when measuring distances.
>>46267241
It's Kirby's final parting curse. Where can we trace near every significant and terrible aspect of AoS? Kirby. It's written across his shitty, egotistical and borderline psychotic manifesto, and in numerous articles he's published publicly and in interviews. Even the lack of points is his pet idea.
My impression is that AoS was to be his greatest masterpiece, a culmination of all his "brilliant" and infallible ideas into a single product, his capstone project.
>>46266715
>>46266954
Whats with this retard and shoehorning his anti-american sentiments into an AoS discussion?
Just demonstrates how utterly stupid AoS customers are.
>>46267586
Speaking of the Perry brothers, the Green Knight is still an amazing model (more so if you know the story behind how it was made). I wish I had one of those and the old Archaon on a horse just to paint.
>>46267609
Even if GW canned AoS they would probably refuse to bring back many of the old WHFB armies. More likely they would decide Fantasy in general is not worth bothering with, I think they lack the self awareness to realise its their own fault.
Bretonnia exists only in our hearts now.
>>46267639
Because you're screaming and crying just like Americans do.
You demand OUTRAGE and how anyone who dislikes this pathetic impotent rattling is somehow AN EVIL CORPORATE SHILL.
I have played this game fuck longer than really I should have, It died back at the Storm of Chaos.
>>46267658
Its OK, they can't hurt us any more now.
Plus I've still got all my old WHFRP books, so I can go back to my little world of dirty, stinking peasants and slightly less dirty, stinking nobles whenever I want.
>>46267658
I get the feeling that the new CEO, Roundtree, knows what's up. It was simply too late for him to fix this mess before it released. The End Times had its foot out the door, they were already printing Sigmarine minis, and if they stopped now it'd be half a million lost in moulds alone, so he just had to take a bite of the shit sammy that Kirby served up and try to make the best of it.
>>46267273
The thing is, WHFB setting wasn't even half exploited.
No tileans, kislev, estalian, araby, ming, southlands, ind, kurgan, hung, nippon or even amazon lists or figs. No dogs of war with minis less than 20 years old. The last new army were the Ogres in 6th edition.
Way to stay stagnant.
>>46264487
My flgs was a huge fantasy shop with ~15 or so regular players and god knows how may occasional ones.
when AoS came out they got in 4 starter boxes. so far, 1 has been sold and 1 has been opened as a shop copy to do demos with, the other two are still on the shelf.
None of the fantasy players picked it up. They all either bounced to KoW or flushed their armies onto e-bay. One guy torched his and briefly got e-famous.
>>46267504
Yeah, the two most successful flgs' here in Phoenix, AZ have a small token display of AoS kits. I'm guessing the GW rep demanded shelf space for it? Because they both move tons of 40k kits.
Even the 40k stuff has lost a bit of space though. As more and more of the local playerbase loses interest in Xenoformationhammer 40k, other games are gaining more and more of a foothold. 40k used to be an everyday thing a few years ago, the playerbase has shrunk so much, you rarely see it outside of friday night 40k.
>>46267724
Even if he wants to 'fix' it its simply too late.
AoS was such a disaster that it even drove off some 40k players. Killing WHFB changed things forever, now dozens of smaller companies are taking business share from GW and a huge part of their former fanbase will never trust or recommend them ever again.
And they have so far made zero indication they want to fix the problems with their flagship game either.
>>46266911
Oh, like what happened to Epic?
>>46267784
It seems more like >>46267781 happened to it.
AoS was it's own thing, and killing the Fantasy line hurt the Fantasy crowd, but it's the endless formations and cheese combined with endlessly imbalanced armies and rules that never get better that have made 40k unpalatable to most players.
>>46267724
Dont give Rountree undue credit. Remember, this guy was handpicked by Kirby.
>>46267784
That's pretty much right. It'd take a complete rehaul of Age to be worth much at all, and even after that they'd need a public apology to old customers for their poor product, axing of WHFB, and generally shit everything. And that's only the bare minimum to start with if they want to salvage this mess.
>>46267714
Wow you are an idiot.
>>46267658
Really fantasy isn't worth it to begin with.
Kids today aren't huge LotR buffs, they want to see things like Star Wars and Edge of Tomorrow. Not tired old tropes.
I'm interested in lizardmen, should in play the AoS Seraphon or just make 40k conversions?
>>46267808
AoS had a definite effect on 40k too, lots of people simply stopped buying until they see if GW is going to do something similar with it.
40k is screwed either way, GW is making too much money off knights, super heavies and other things that belong in Epic/Apocalypse to ban them from 40k. Some shops have tried to vote ban them but too many people freak out if you try to ban their expensive knights for the good of the game.
>>46267714
>LOOK AT HOW MUCH I HATE THOSE IMMATURE WHINY AMERICANS
Mate. You just happen to be a lousy cunt. People are mad because something bad happened to something they liked, that doesn't make them Americans, nor does it make them in any way worth being insulted for it(there is also literally no reason to insult the Americans in this conversation either, I can't even fathom why you ever brought it in). The reason you're being called a fanboy is because you attack people who don't like what you like, and fail to see the reasons why they may think this way. You try to state that what happened was for the best, despite the fact that it really wasn't because a lot of players got burned.
>>46267893
Well if I shelled out that much dosh for a modle I'd want to get use out of it
>>46267893
Well, if they can't backpedal the momentum then this is how 40k will be, and that's probably what will kill it.
I got models for Kill Team, but I'm not investing any more into GW. I'm even avoiding their paint and brush range. Premium prices for average product.
>>46265778
That's pretty standard for most, if not all, sales jobs.
I mean, GW is pretty bad about it because they seem to forget that they produce for a niche hobby, and thus sometimes set some unrealistic sales goals in low-traffic areas, but it's still not uncommon.
>>46267824
Yeah GW has alienated so much of it's core, idk if they can recover to former levels.
This hobby is marketed by hobbyists and players in the gamerooms of flgs' and clubs around the globe. The more players there are, the more new players there will be. And the retarded demographic that enjoys imbalance and formation bullshit has not filled the shoes of the guys that used to be there every weekend. It used to be young and old, enthusiasts, lore dorks, painting and modeling guys, campaigns, etc.
All (most) of that has been replaced by sperglords fielding unpainted formation lists. Thats not going to attract new players.
GW has dug quite a hole for themselves, and unless they wise up - they will be a fraction of what they once were.
>>46267890
Lizardmen aren't really that good.
Play Chaos.
>>46267893
Even if 40k was suffering there's still HH that prints money and is actually in good hands thanks to FW
>>46267808
I've stopped spending on 40k as a result of AoS. That shit is scary. Why spend money on a product that's being handled by someone who has clearly demonstrated that they're not above pulling the rug out from under their customers and dragging their oldest and most iconic setting out back to shoot in the head with little to no warning?
I'm not about to surrender my money to somebody after I just saw them upsell old players on massive over priced models and books before turning around and making those huge purchases worthless a month later.
>>46267903
It still fucks over the people who want to play 40k instead of Apocalypse in disguise. There are places where everyone but the superheavy/knight owners just stopped showing up.
>>46267951
Fuck chaos
Lizards stronk
>>46267966
>there's still HH
Very niche game and out of top.
>>46266715
source?
>>46267987
>There are places where everyone but the superheavy/knight owners just stopped showing up.
Yeah, thats what killed 40k here. It's only formation armies and superheavies now. And the playerbase has gone from 40+ regulars to maybe a dozen or less.
What does that say about the direction GW has taken 40k in?
>>46267036
>eurocuck
>trained from birth
Fuck off back to /pol/
>>46266717
Dropping back to same level before those peak periods idiot
GW has only a small amount of traded shares anyway so they tend to spike
Most of the shares are held by kirby and others as pensions
>>46266903
He's saying they clash with everything else. He's not wrong either; I just can't take the models seriously, they remind me of the angels from infamous second son and diabolo too much. Everything else meanwhile feels like normal Warhammer if gaudy and tacky looking.
>>46267987
I feel like Knights could have a place in the meta, but only as their own army and without all these ally shenanigans. Give them a few smaller units to round their codex out, call then squires or some shit, and limit the number of knights you can bring in an army to one per 1000k pointsor some other restriction that makes them unable to field superheavies in large numbersand their whole thing can be that they're the only army that field a super heavy or two in regular games.
Of course, we're probably just already too far gone to make them into a reasonable army.
The biggest effect in my area was on 40K. About a third of the playerbase, upon seeing AOS, just dropped the game entirely. The amount of fear in the store was palpable, nothing could convince people to add to their armies. Over the course of several months there are now two people who play 40K in the store and it's not their main game at all.
There is no longer a fan base in my area for GW to save.
>>46268158
I'm seeing almost the same thing at my store, though it's taken longer. 40k is clearly dead, and the store's a lot more diverse now. Lots of Bolt Action, Kings of War, etc.
I think a lot of 40k players see the focus on giant models, the increasing irrelevance of point values and the aesthetic of some new models as a sign GW wants 40k to be more like AoS.
GW thinks balance, army restrictions and point values all reduce sales so they do not care that these things make the game playable.
>>46267644
What story?
Paid shills can say whatever they want, the simple fact is that this game is flopping harder than shit twinkie 4e did. /tg/ was right about 4e and they're right about Smegmar.
The sad thing is that GW won't roll back in WHFB. They're far pettier than most companies; they'd rather just kill both product lines and up 40k prices to make up the difference.
>>46267893
Weird thing is the super heavies make for a perfect game of "Giant Robot Fightin" in my mind. They mostly just need to fix the narrative of the game on the board. It's really indicative of the problem they face as a brand that they can't separate things out so that people can enjoy the aspects of the game they like the most. They don't seem to grasp that they need a lot of rules systems so everyone can the size and type of game that they want.
First and foremost, they need a board game to get people in to things at a basic level. Heroquest/Warhammer Quest/Space Hulk level stuff that a player can drop in, control a single model, and face a GM's menagerie of creatures and oddities. Follow that up with a skirmish game, where you control a small warband of some faction to achieve glory or treasure or whatever, and keep increasing the scale until you have fuckhuge armies of mechs and dragons where dropping 5 super heavies is the order of the day. Having only one set of rules or bust really fucks things up because people looking for a different type of game are alienated.
>>46268248
That was the first model one of the Perrys sculpted after his arm was blown off by a cannon and he taught himself to use his left arm instead.
>>46268259
GW thinks smaller scale rule sets stop people buying the main game. This was one of the reasons they killed the specialist games.
>>46267878
Its funny that GW thinks that way.
>>46267878
>Kids today aren't huge LotR buffs, they want to see things like Star Wars and Edge of Tomorrow. Not tired old tropes.
Which is why Total Warhammer is the most anticipated Total War game ever, right?
Honestly they fucked up hard and this was doomed to fail even if the rules were good.
People hate on end times a lot but that event revitalized fantasy as a game and sold out across the board and up to and including the fall of Altdorf it was an amazing changeup for the lore. So everyone that went back into fantasy for the cool new stuff got fucked over with all of it getting canned. Hell my local was going to start a fantasy league with the new edition because people liked End Times and then that stopped dead in the tracks with AoS
Then they only supported 2 armies for a year so anyone with goodwill to the game got sick of it and left
What they should've done was make Age of Sigmar one of the main selling points of the new specialist division and kept going with regular fantasy. Honestly though Warhammer Fantasy will probably come back under the name Warhammer classic or someshit after the new Total War.
>>46268353
Which is bizarre because that shit is what gets people in to the hobby in the first place. You sit down with some friends, crawl through a dungeon or a space hulk having a good old time, and then you notice some people at the table over playing a fuckhuge battle.
>>46268316
Yeah playing around with gunpowder in the company of drunk neckbeards is dangerous
>>46268158
Pretty much this. Huntsville fag from upthread, and I am still just baffled by the numbers of people selling off their 40k armies. A strong population has watered down a lot, and there aren't really many people looking to start now.
That said, much like KoW has gobbled up a majority of the Fantasy players, I've managed to shill and grill up a lot of support for the Warpath kikestarter, and I know of four or five people alone that have dropped over $500 on it, plus the people that are already playing Beta Test games using their 40k armies. We more or less belong to Mantic now, and the shelf space that Mantic gets now is slowly growing to reach and beat back 40k.
>>46267983
That's why I took the chance to take advantage of the Skitarii models when they were released. I'd been wanting those models for years and finally I got them and they were everything I'd hoped for.
Doesn't hurt that HoR Kill Team has taken it on themselves finally to start going their own way with regards to GW, doing updates for their own mini-Codexes independent of GW releases, though they'll still borrow from them when they can, should anything fall in line with Kill Team.
>>46268447
Same here. End Times hyped the game and people were excited by the new edition. Then AOS rumor dropped in Jan. Everything stopped. It didn't pick back up until that October when everyone switch to KOW.
>>46267520
>>46267546
Oh don't forget the Tyranid's who got a shitty rushed update and lost some really awesome hero units all because GW were massive morons.
>>46268435
And don't forget Vermintides success.
>>46268666
Just hate waiting for those fucking sequels. Vermintide had a really juicy pop for a while, but they waited so long on the Survival maps that it died off fairly significantly since there was so little in the way of new content.
I need my fixes badly.
>End Times: Chaos Warriors
>End Times: The Undead
>maybe if lucky, End Times: Beastmen
>>46268666
Lets not forget GW whole heartily embracing power creep by giving skaven Storm Ogres or whatever with dual ratlinggun arms or whatever the fuck
So 2 years from now are we still going to get these threads with posters saying it's a flop?
>>46268816
Depends on what happens. If it is, then no. If it isn't, then yes. Just like how every month GW is 2-3 years away from bankruptcy.
>>46267878
>Really fantasy isn't worth it to begin with.
>guys dark fantasy is unpopular today
>>46268838
Witcher 3 sold horribly.
>>46268846
Still more popular and notable than F4 and DAI.
>>46268435
I want that game to be game of the fucking year and I want CA to take time to shit down GWs throat for abandoning it.
7th Edition was a mistake.
6th Edition was too good to last.
>>46266461
Big flashy new releases cause a bump.
Except that didn't happen with Sigmar, and they've been fobbing investors off with restructuring as an excuse for profit issues for years now.
>>46266903
You ever see a really messed-up high-level clownsuit from an MMO? All that armour was designed to fit the game's aesthetic, and yet.
(age of sigmar's aesthetic is sterile and overstimulated at the same time, it's a fucking hideous mess)
>>46266818
>Tomb Kings
>dead
Heh.
(Not that I doubt you, it's just that your choice of words was funny.)
>>46268435
>Which is why Total Warhammer is the most anticipated Total War game ever, right?
Total Warhammer was allowed to exist because they were killing the Old World anyway. That's literally why, after all these years since the last major Warhammer game, they've gone for it.
Because they feel safe and secure, because the scary video game definitely won't compete with their tabletop game.
>>46266658
>>46269248
Wasn't 2014 the Tyranid release?
>>26863644
>Brettonia has finally had its last models put on no longer available
Au revoir. We won't be around, but the memories will always be there.
>>46269248
>2014
Isn't that was the time when they closed shitton of their stores?
>>46267405
Wow, it's fucking nothing?
>>46264008
>you see what you want to see.
Seriously.
>>46269327
>Model customization = nothing
Youre the perfect customer for modern gw
>>46269301
Only thing left is their warscrolls for AoS.
Man, I bet the same thing is going to happen to Sisters for 40k. Just a new edition and quietly all that pewter is just going to be sold off, a token update for rules and never again, until it's dropped entirely.
>>46267893
>>46268259
I don't think SH/GCs by themselves are really that broken. A single Knight or somehting, while big, doesn't seem that out of place on the board and isn't all that hard to deal with, and a Wraithknight has the same stats as Wraithlord (which as been around forever) except with more wounds and some extra rules. They make a good centerpiece model for an army.
The problem comes when you start throwing in ridiculously big things like Titans and Stompas that really seem out of place on a small board, or have multiple SH/GCs supported by tons of other big and hard to kill models.
>>46268920
CA pretty much confirmed bretonnia as FLC.
>2018 Total warhammer GOTY edition
>every fucking hero is present
>every race is present
>CA actually balances their game so multiplayer is fun
Simon mann pls.
>>46268846
6 million physical copies, 1 million GoG purchases, 5th in sales during 2015 in steam
>sold horribly
>>46269305
>>46269282
No it's when they got BTFO by chapterhouse
>>46269130
They still experienced shrink while releasing:
Imperial Knights
Skitarii/Mechanicum
7th edition
Updating nearly every army
Betrayal at Calth
What is left for them to do other than face the music? 40k the game is a mess. The awful balance combined with waac encouraging formations have the game in a bad spot. These things arent growing the playerbase. Time to recognize mistakes have been made, and do it the old fashioned way.
>>46267516
Poor quality trolling
>>46269301
>Remembering my first army
>All dat lore
>All dem peasants to oppress
>All those filthy heathens to charge and lance
>That time the lady beat a Daemonprince of Tzeentch for me
Like tears in the rain.
>>46269353
Oh I misread you post anon. Though you were defending the star dragon as if the price tag was justified by the options.
>>46269384
>CA's will wheaton says in their stream that bretonnia will live eternally in Total war warhammer.
Godspeed
>>46269355
That's what they did to Squats way back when. They stopped publishing stuff for them, didn't update their rules to the new edition (which admittably was a bigger issue then, as while you could theoretically play 7th edition with a 3rd edtion codex with only some pretty minor FAQs, like changing the psychic powers, the change from 2nd to 3rd edition pretty much rewrote the entire game), said people could still use their models for counts-as IG or something and then never mentioned them again.
>>46269361
>everyone exciting forTWW
>game released totally unplayable
>bad reviews
>it's last WHFB appearance
>>46269369
>BTFO by chapterhouse
Wut?
>>46269384
At least 9th age and Kow will let us live on anon.
3rd part mini makers and 3rd party games
we pathfinder now.
>>46269423
I'm really excited for it
>Mfw seeing that masonry flying through the air from those catapults.
>>46269375
This. GW keeps hitting their head to a wall while trying to figure out how to make more profit while changing their policies. But since they're incapable of double loop learning, they are making barely any progress on that. At least their current CEO isn't Kirby, thank god.
>>46269468
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/ChapterHouse_Studios
They tried to sue a company for making space marine alternative bits.
The got rekt in court.
When you lose a lawsuit to defend your ip your stock get's rekt to.
Because of that they no longer make anything generic, everything is named FYRESLAYERS STORMCAST ASTRA MILITARUM ORRUK AELVES so they can trade mark is and the art no longer contains anything but existing models so as not to accidentally inspire any 3rd parties.
>>46269449
>game releases perfectly
>everyone asks GW about where they can buy miniature Karl Franz
>"lol guys, buy sigmarines."
>>46269468
They had a big tiff with a 3rd party producer named Chapterhouse. They charged Chapterhouse with a lot of shit because Chapterhouse straight didn't bother to change the names on all their conversion bits to not!40k names. They pulled a lot of shit like bullying the courts to freeze Chapterhouse's assets.
Court ruled that GW can't copyright words like "Space Marine" and "Grenade Launcher" and Chapterhouse won the case very publicly. GW dropped a lot of rules support for models they weren't making, since the court ruled you kind of have to make a product for it to be copyrighted (Chapterhouse was actually making Tyranid Mycetic Spores, GW was not).
It's been theorized that all the stupid new names in AoS are designed to be unique for the sake of being unique so they can copyright all of it without threat of IP theft.
>>46269369
The stock price drop was actually due to them announcing that they had a 30% decrease in profits compared to the previous year.
source
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/criticalintel/10946-Games-Workshop-is-Dead-Long-Live-Games-Workshop
another source
http://observationdeck.kinja.com/the-empire-of-games-workshop-is-burning-1504415669
>>46269472
>mfw GW currently holds the bread winner for undead skeletal models
Mantic would you please get your shit together.
>>46269575
>mfw almost all the legendary lords are now gone off their store
>>46269375
They also enacted pay freezes, cut a huge number of their stores down to one-man operations and did other bits of financial jiggery-pokery to cushion the impact and keep paying out dividends. There's very little they can cut back at this point while maintaining the image that its all hunky dory.
>>46268248
See the * bit at the bottom
>>46266191
It was very much played, back in the day it even featured in the starting box.
However not updating the miniatures nor the rules in 10 years tends to make people think twice.
>>46266628
Look up the Chapterhouse lawsuit papers. Fantasy amounted to 34% of total revenue.
However nobody has ever fucking referenced the source for the "paints and paintbrushes were making more" shit. Come on faggot, I'm waiting.
>>46267153
Chapterhouse states that 34% of the revenue came from fantasy. I kinda doubt you've ever looked at them.
>>46267203
>>46267250
You can't seriously be this stupid.
>>46267391
Hahahahaha you don't even know the 4 rules AoS has! This truly is a game for special kids.
See >>46267623
>>46266461
Yes. And if Fantasy was cut because it didn't bring enough money (34% according to the Chapterhouse documents), and the revenue has kept falling, then AoS is being a flop. Also, they admitted that the holiday season sales didn't meet their expectations. 2+2=flop
>>46266525
Yes, does means that X Wing has upped their game and 40k has sold less. But seeing as it is still no2, I highly doubt that the bulk of the decline is on 40k's shoulders.
>>46268927
7th was very good, fixed a lot of the little issues of 6th. The problem were certain amry books, such as Vampire Counts, that fucked it all. But the basic rules were golden.
>>46269600
I really want GW to shit bricks once Total warhammer becomes popular.
>people want to buy reiksguard because they are awesome.
>buy our stormcast eternals goy.
>>46269598
Mantic ones look ok if you stick gw skulls on them
The zombies they do are actually really nice
the rest of their ranges....eh, there are better 3rd parties and often cheaper ones too.
>>46269598
If Wargames Factory was still around, they'd be the killers for skeletons. Cheapest shit for skeleton and zombie mass infantry packs anywhere.
So who wants to create a new, traditional fantasy game to fill the awful void left by Sigmar?
>>46269633
>It was very much played, back in the day it even featured in the starting box.
Indeed. My first ever game of 'hams was with it. My opponent was a cheaty bugger who it turned out pretended all of the knights were grail knights and when all I had were skink archers and a few spearmen.He still lost
Aztec dinosaurs fighting Arthurian knights still ruled.
>>46269664
Supposedly all their molds went to warlord games, but it seems to be taking of ages to put that stuff back into production.
>>46269673
at least 3 companies already have, and at least 30 or companies are still making warhammer usable minis for far cheaper than gw.
>>46269673
KoW stuffed the gap already, almost preemptively taking up the mantle of WHFB before it fell. Mantic is just fucking coasting on its downfall, and it looks like their revenue has caused them to upgrade their own sculpts.
>>46269673
Just want people to start playing Warhammer 3E again tabach
>>46269695
....why would lizards ever fight brets anyway?
Come across the pond to get back the magic McGuffin some lord bought and stuck in his castle?
>>46263977
People still play Warhammer Fantasy at my LGS (and sometimes the spinoff games), but I've never actually seen Age of Smegma in person. Not one single time! So I'd say it depends on where you play, where I'm at the answer is that "nobody cares."
My lgs owner said the starter box sold great but he's only sold a bare handful of new other kits. He's had the same stormcasts boxes on the shelves for what, almost 9 months or something now?
>>46269357
Knights are pretty good, they just need to be slower and stomps need to be utterly reworked.
Wraithknights are significantly more durable and mobile and killier than Wraithlords.
GW's constant inability to give us balanced rules is a far bigger issue than the Superheavy thing though. Waaagh Ghazkull should be a giant wake-up call for all the deluded fools that think things are going to get better anytime soon.
>>46269735
They did that occasionally. I think it was one of the go-to explanations for why there would be Lizardmen fighting Old Worlders. I think there were also Lizards in the Southlands of Not Africa, back before Tomb Kings were a thing. I don't actually know if the box set ever justified it, I started with the Empire and Orks one which came after that.
>>46269664
Wargames got absorbed, havent seen any movement from them.
>>46267741
those were all just boring humans
based on real world places
>>46269640
>there are better 3rd parties and often cheaper ones too.
Such as?
>>46269833
>based on real world places
>implying it's worse than generic humans from FR
>>46269855
Drunk Spaniard
>>46269855
Well it depends on what kit you're looking for. Mantic does have the distinction of a very large range, but smaller companies often have choice kits that are pretty much superior for a similar or lower price even.
The warhammer fantasy general has links to a list of 3rd parties in the op.
>>46266228
>asks for anecdotal evidence
>inb4 someone calls him out on asking for anecdotal evidence
Seems logical to me.
>>46269944
The proper way to indicate that would have been
>inb4 "anecdotal evidence"
without quotes it's an action, presumably providing anecdotal evidence. With quotes it's someone accusing him of using anecdotal evidence.
>>46269833
They could have added exotic bullshit to spice things up.
How about nice beastmen for Ind, Stormvermin initiates for Nippon, Earth golems for Cathay and some other bullshit?
>>46267600
Troll.
>>46269535
They didnt get rekt, they won on the chapterhouse shit - they lost on trying to copyright shit like 'Ork', 'Space Marine', and some other even more ridiculous ones that escape me atm.
AoS would have been a lot better recieved if they just lowered the damn prices for the models. Just bring them on the level of the older Fantasy range today:
>Heroes €13
>10*small infantry/beasts €20
>10*rank n' file €30
>3*monsterous infantry €37
>1*monster €43
>super big thing €60
All it would take. But they literally doubled the prices. Combined with the non-existant trust and the complete lack of any worldbuilding they started AoS really terrible.
Witch sucks because I like it a lot, and anyone that played with me started working on their old stuff/bought new stuff as well. Mind you, none of the overpriced Stormcast/Khorne shit.
>>46270034
I would say just a fleshed out tilea and estalia army would be the first order of business, then araby.
Also they did do araby for warmaster.
I could have lived with the derpy rules, but squatting the whole world and lore killed it for me.
>>46269833
So is literally every other human faction in WHFB.
