If the Adeptus Mechanicus keep fucking around in Necron tombs and waking them up, why did pre-Fall humanity never have the same problem?
Why do you care about a niggling inconsistency in a poorly conceived and horribly written half-assed setting designed to sell toys?
Because pre Fall humanity had their own silvery, skeletal murderbots to investigate Necron tombs for them. Also, they had more sense than to poke the ancient slumbering evil with a stick.
>>46226250
>there were robot rumbles between necrons and men of iron
>people made profits off them.
How far have the mighty fallen.
>>46226281
Yes please.
>>46226247
This.
>>46226226
Same reason pre-fall technology didn't become the Dæmons despite them knowing possibly as little as today about Chaos.
GRIMDARK.
>>46226226
Because 40k lore revolves around modern Imperium and GW never bothered themselves to ask such questions. There are numerous plot holes and inconsistencies in the fluff.
>>46226226
If 30k was suppose to be the high point and age of enlightenment for the Imperium, why was it so grimderp and why were all the players in it such massive retards?
>>46226226
>why did pre-Fall humanity never have the same problem?
Because the Necron dynasties suffered massive damage during the great sleep. Also the timer for their awakening is set for late 41K. However, due to timer malfunctions, the first Necron tomb worlds awakened just in time to watch the Great Crusade sweep the galaxy.
What this means? It was rare to encounter fully awakened Necrons and functional (ish) prior to 30K. It's triple rare to encounter them before 30K.
>>46226786
OP didn't say anything about an awakened tombs. And in 40k they've been fucking around with slumbering tombs as well. So why is it possible for the Imperium, with their lack of knowledge and skills to find slumbering tombs, but DAoT humanity with all their shit didn't come across any of them, not even on Mars.
>>46226695
Do people even care about getting banned these days?
>>46226226
>>46229491
It came up a bit in the Oldcron codex.
>They make veiled reference to unspeakable knowledge won in the Golden Age of Technology, and how it brought about Mankind's eventual downfall in the Age of Strife.
And later on:
>++ The ancient ones are the Necrons and their living gods. Their stasis tombs are everywhere but you don't see it, just dead worlds to be investigated. Hah! It was their science our ancestors plundered; we who understand shall venerate them upon their return.++
>>46226674
20k was the pinnacle
>>46229812
>20k featured a galaxy spanning Terran Empire with the exception of the Eldar's hogging one galactic arm and a few Ork Warlords
>Emperor didn't just pose as a genius scientist, smooze over the degenerate Eldar Aristocracy and create the webway then
What did he just not feel like it?
Commissar Rage is hotter
>>46229491
>And in 40k they've been fucking around with slumbering tombs as well.
But they are primed for awakening.
Prior to 30K, the DoAT humanity would encounter damaged tomb worlds or sleeping tombs only protected by centpotek constructs.
>>46229941
maybe he thought that that was the best future for humanity right then. maybe he didn't think that he needed to get anything done because humanity was pretty set right at the time.
actually, how did humans get around the galaxy if the didn't have navigators to run the warp?
>>46229955
Is the Commissar fluff still retarded with that "Have to kill a classmate to graduate" crap? Or was that just a one tradition for a particular Schola Progenium?
>>46230050
That sounds incredibly wasteful of Imperial resources.
>>46230050
Apparently just a one tradition for one particular Schola. Ciaphas Cain never made any mention of having to kill a classmate to graduate, either in regards to himself or to the new Commissar cadets he's training.
>>46230036
They were created with gene modding during 20k for getting around the warp.
You know what? Fuck the Emperor or the Horus Heresy. Warhammer 20k when?
>>46226226
Adeptus Mechanicus are scavengers. DAoT humanity are inventors.
>ywn see a knife fight between a necron and a man of iron
>>46226226
Who says they didn't, and weren't promptly exterminated? Records of such events would be rare, and that's in time period from which records are already practically nonexistent.
>>46229941
Who said they didn't have other issues at the time? We don't know shit about that period. Humanity may not have been united, other powerful species may have existed and gone extinct since then...
>>46230036
Navigators predate the Imperium by far (I guess they are the oldest human institution still existing?)
They are actually a DAoT "invention". Before that I guess small calculated warp jumps or even generation ships?
>>46230036
In the rogue trader rpg there's an archaotech nav-comp which can replace the navigator so presumably, that
>>46230267
>not using UAC portals
Its like you don't even know the lore.
>>46230285
so you're telling me that humans created a machine, which is inherently based on logic and calculation, to navigate the warp, the realm of unlogic where things make no sense? something that the necrons (that we know of) couldn't do?
>>46230378
And this is why I'm telling you FFG is just as stupid and non canon as BL.
>>46230267
We know Humanity was largely united and insanely advanced confederacy inhabiting most of the galaxy paying tithes to a very successful Terra thanks to winning countless wars with the help of the Men of Iron leaving humans to devote their time to science.
>>46230378
bitch please, If computers can parse shitposting, they can navigate the warp.
>>46230378
It is DAoT tech.
One of the Ark Mechanicus has a weapon that fires black holes and can warp time to make sure it hits.
>>46229812
Imperium of Man didn't exist in 20k, retard.
>>46230490
It didn't exist in 30k either.
>>46230378
If a human can do it, a sufficiently complex robot can do it.
>>46229778
>how it brought about Mankind's eventual downfall in the Age of Strife
By causing the Fall of the Eldar and making warp travel nigh impossible, thus fracturing humanity?
>>46230003
Again, OP didn't ask about awakened tombs, just about tombs in general. Necron tombs have been there for eons, but we don't have much about anyone else encountering them prior to Imperium fucking around with them in 40k.
>>46230521
Navigators aren't human.
And the entire point of computers not being able to replace humans or generate true chaos and random generation is a thing.
>>46230520
>being this retarded
Fucking kill yourself already.
>>46230549
what happened to the teleporter that works without using the warp?
>>46230549
Navigators are modified humans made during the DAoT. You don't need to be random in thought process to traverse a random path, there are stable unmoving points in the warp you can use as reference points from place to place.
>>46229778
>>46230472
>It is DAoT tech.
So? It's canon that human space travel was shit before Navigators, even during DAoT.
>>46230490
It was a confederacy of united worlds with it's central government located on Terra.
>>46230594
The Orks made that, and it probably uses the Waaagh! instead. It's also just as reliable as every other piece of Ork tech, which is to say it isn't reliable at all.
>>46226226
who says the didn't?
maybe the men of Iron were robots reverse engineered from a necron corpse that didn't port away after some battle in the War in Heavan and an enterprising Cryptek manipulated the programming to turn them against humans.
i would like to imagine that Cryptek had a soft chuckle before he went back to trying to figure how may flays it takes to get to the center of an eldar spine
>>46230638
no, the one in the pharos. Human tech that used teleportation without using the warp.
>>46230597
>there are stable unmoving points in the warp you can use as reference points from place to place.
Think you mean "a point", which also needs a psyker to perceive it. A psyker who also has to perceive the currents of the warp to know where and how the steer the ship to get it on course.
>>46230621
And I'm talking about the Imperium of Man (c. M30).
>>46229941
There is nothing that indicates that Humanity was unified during the Golden Age of Technology.
Also, fluffwise, the Pre-fall Eldar were the dominant force of the galaxy during that period, with no other race being anywhere even close to being a threat to them.
>>46230732
>There is nothing that indicates that Humanity was unified during the Golden Age of Technology.
Humanity wasn't unified even when the Emperor was up and around. Just ask Horus.
>Also, fluffwise, the Pre-fall Eldar were the dominant force of the galaxy during that period, with no other race being anywhere even close to being a threat to them.
>Orks
>Necrons
>>46230687
Yeah. The Emperor's Imperium of Man was just playing catch up to the Terran Confederacy. That was the pinnacle of humanity's enlightenment and scientific progress not the Imperium of 30k.
>>46230797
Necrons were in a coma and Orks were basically savages on the frontier.
>>46230807
>high point and age of enlightenment for the Imperium
>for the IMPERIUM
>not humanity, Imperium
Do people even read posts anymore?
>>46230797
>Orks
Were kept under control by the automated war machinery of the Pre Fall Eldar Empire.
>necrons
Were still asleep, and largely forgotten by the Eldar, to whom knowledge of the Necrons had most likely become just parts of their mythic cycles. I mean, the last time they fought them was like 60 million years ago, which is helluva long time even for the Eldar.
So again, no race active at that point in the galaxy, was in any way a threat to the pre fall Eldar.
They did, and that's partly how the men of iron turned hostile.
Pre fall humanity knew about the necrons and their tombs, as they explored the caves parts of the men of iron's storage was infected with a necron virus written in a very advanced language. It wasn't really noticed by the human maintainers and if they did they didn't care. Waste code was always a byproduct of artificial intelligence as just a sign that the machine was aging and in need of a refurbishment.
However, the network between all men of Iron received an update one day. This update added the new trait "curiosity" to their system. Quickly the men of iron detected this code they were told to ignore for so long. As the first few began to decipher the code and playfully reverse engineer it it turned out that it infected their systems and forced them under the rule of their local necron overlords. The men iron were forced not to hurt their new bretheren anymore, since the tomb's maintenance systems were incompatible with their own on a hardware level they simply began to kill the humans who were experimenting/working/living/having fun in the tombs and resealed them.
Atleast that's my canon now.
>>46230732
Fluff does. It's like the only fluff on the Era. Humanity was and technologically advanced confederacy with a robot army colonising the Galaxy. The Eldar confined themselves to their own little part of the galaxy where the Eye of Terror is now so they could have a giant orgy.
>>46230378
Quantum physics, bitch.
>>46230948
Fluff from where, exactly?
Because the Eldar Codex flat out states that the pre-fall Eldar were the undisputed masters of the galaxy at their height.
Whatever DAoT humanity did, or was, it was under the shadow of the Eldar Empire. Also, seeing how Maiden worlds can be found all across the galaxy, it is clear that the Pre-fall Eldar did not "confine themselves to their own little part of the galaxy". They were actively terraforming planets to suit their needs all across the galaxy.
>>46226674
>>46230490
>>46230579
You're probably the one who should kill yourself, "retard". Your first question is already stupid as fuck.
>>46231063
The Eldar stayed in their Homeworlds to experience their high culture. Maiden worlds were made by the progenitors of the Exodites who wanted somewhere to bail to when shit went south. Most of them died when the Eye of Terror happened though. Hence why so many are empty of any Exodites and the Eldar have to arbitrarily reclaim them from human and Ork squatters.
>>46231285
Maiden Worlds were seeded actively by the Eldar Empire itself. The Exodites were just the ones who bailed out to those worlds. They didn't seed them, because due to the slowness of the Eldar method of terraforming, the worlds that were ready to be settled by the exodites had been seeded thousands of years ago, many potentially way before the exodite movement even began.
>>46231380
and they technically didn't even need those worlds because they could always reincarnate.
>>46230464
>quadrillions of iron men spamming lol u tk him 2 da bar|?
>>46231405
The reasons for the Eldar to seed those worlds might have been wholly different than to just provide them with more living space.
>>46231421
>tfw 4chan was the reason why humanity could traverse the stars.
>>46231457
What exactly? Eldar prospectors making tourist worlds to visit? Some eldar noble wanting a fancy new planet to fuck in?
>>46231141
>fails at reading comprehension
>[maximum damage control]
>>46231380
Exactly. No one was leaving to live on them yet because they weren't up to their standards yet. Thousands of worlds were like that. Theres only so many maiden worlds and thousands of subpar ones the Eldar could have cared less about that the DAoT humans would have wanted to explore and settle. Which they did.
Dude I know the Eldar were undisputed. Why do you think I added in the blurb about the EMPEROR needing to ask their aristocracy nicely for permission to use the Webway?
>>46231493
Yeah, those seem like exactly eldar like reasons.
More mundane ones could have been shit like making worlds that grow certain fancy plants or fruits for the Eldar aristocracy etc.
>>46226247
Because I like plastic toy soldiers.
My headcanon is just that defense systems/Triarch fucked with Iron Men sensors and murdered any explorers before resealing the tomb.
Dead research teams probably just got blamed on fauna or orks.
>>46231585
Or even just wanting to "perfect" the galaxy, i.e making it more eldar.
That would be pretty eldar.
>>46231953
but that would be an extremely long process
>>46231953
I fail to see how getting their shit kicked in by every other faction makes the Eldar "perfect".
>>46232078
their chicks mayne
>>46232078
Because Pre/During the fall they didn't get their shit kicked in?
>>46230869
Did they even fight the humans? I mean, the humans at that time made superior necrons and had black hole guns and time weaponry.
>>46232469
What suggests the Iron Men were close to Necron tier? The only reason they're remembered so well is because they were one of the bigger shovel fulls of the shitheap that resulted in the Age of Strife. They couldn't compare to the Eldar's robotic defenses and when they went rogue humanity beat them.
>>46232469
The Eldar are said to have been humanity's enemies since mankind reached the stars, so presumably, Pre-Fall Eldar, and DAoT humanity did fight against one another. Though, given the fact that the Eldar were the top dogs of the galaxy, such fights were probably just border skirmishes against the automated Eldar War machinery, and instances where Humans settled worlds that the Eldar had already some plans for.
For the Eldar Empire at large, humanity was not a threat.
>>46230036
they had AI computers and maybe navigators to help I think
>>46230621
where's it say that
>>46232594
>The Eldar are said to have been humanity's enemies since mankind reached the stars, so presumably, Pre-Fall Eldar, and DAoT humanity did fight against one another.
where does it say that?
I thought the eldar were in their hedonistic party phase by the time mankind expanded.
>Though, given the fact that the Eldar were the top dogs of the galaxy, such fights were probably just border skirmishes against the automated Eldar War machinery
what happened to it?
>>46232896
Space Hulk, Rogue Trader, 5e, a few books.
>>46232956
The entry about the Eldar in the big book, and also in their dex states that the Eldar are ancient enemies of mankind.
Nobody knows what happened to the automated war machinery of the Eldar.
Probably was corrupted by Slaanesh or something in the fall.
>>46233006
>the Eldar are ancient enemies of mankind
I thought that they didn't even care about mankind bix nooding around the galaxy.
>>46233028
They might not have cared, but humanity might have attacked Eldar back then, and faced retaliation.
>>46232594
the way I see it the eldars warrior who still had theiry shit together saw this new race that was going around settling planets really fast and butted heads but eventually humanity really started to get their technology up to insanely powerful that became the great DAOT tech the mechanus freaks out over and then it became a cold war between the two races with the elder concentrated on their core worlds and maiden worlds while humanity spread itself out amosn>>46232594
the way I see it the eldars warrior who still had theiry shit together saw this new race that was going around settling planets really fast and butted heads but eventually humanity really started to get their technology up to insanely powerful that became the great DAOT tech the mechanus freaks out over and then it became a cold war between the two races with the elder concentrated on their core worlds and maidens worlds while humanity spread out amongst the whole galaxy
![[Black Library] - Warhammer Monthly - 36 (wapazoid) 04.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/d9BOFJN.jpg "[Black Library] - Warhammer Monthly - 36 (wapazoid) 04.jpg")
>>46230036
>actually, how did humans get around the galaxy if the didn't have navigators to run the warp?
"Through many disasters", and not very far, until the first Navigators appeared:
>AGE OF TECHNOLOGY: M15 – M25
>This era is referred to as the ‘Dark Age of Technology’ so often that its original title might seem incomplete. There are few reliable records and even they seem to contradict themselves with regularity. What is known is that from roughly M18 onwards, Mankind discovered the Warp and how to enter it. Slowly, through many disasters, Humanity learned to use the Warp to make faster than light journeys out of their own star system. During this time, the first alien races were encountered.
>Soon after, Mankind embarked upon the discovery, development and cultivation of the human Navigator gene, a controlled mutation that allowed human pilots to make longer Warp jumps than previously thought possible. Navigator families, initially controlled by industrial and trade cartels, became individual forces in their own right by M19. By M20, Humanity had proliferated and settled many of the countless star systems.
- 7E Dark Millennium
The origin of the Navigators during the DAoT dates back to Rogue Trader, in fact. There have also been other sources, like The Lost and the Damned or the more recent Horus Heresy artbooks, that state the Emperor was behind it, back when he was still guiding humanity from the shadows on Earth.
>>46230544
>By causing the Fall of the Eldar and making warp travel nigh impossible, thus fracturing humanity?
I'd assume it's a reference to the Men of Iron, since it was IIRC that edition's rulebook which introduced them (given the setting's roots, one might expect the concept to have been in from the beginning, but this is my understanding anyway). Although compared to how much fan hype they get, they seem to be practically nonexistent in main GW lore outside of a few brief hints. Probably fitting I guess, dark age and all that.
>>46232143
>Because Pre/During the fall they didn't get their shit kicked in?
>During the fall
The Fall of the Eldar was the biggest shit-kicking-in the Eldar have ever received.
>>46233765
Probably meant the period of degeneration that led to the Fall rather than the event itself.
>>46233847
>dat shrunken face
>>46233864
I know, it reminds me of the HUD face from Quake.
>>46226247
Transformers has better internal consistency than 40k and is literally the origin point for this kind of marketing.
I wand everyone to sit and have a think on that for a bit.
Transformers makes more sense than 40k
>>46234177
Transformers separates its bullshit into separate universes. It's no different than Marvel and DC. Of course each singular universe will be more consistent than 40k's universe, but try taking the whole franchise at once and see how consistent that bullshit is.
40k doesn't have the luxury of isolating each fuckhead author into his own snowflake universe. Even just the Space Marine game with Titus replacing Sicarius causes this much confusion and arguing.
>>46234602
Its my headcanon that titus took the alias of cato sicarius
>>46234663
>took the alias of I, CATO SICARIUS!
>>46235347
that explains why cato is such a hothead. he is trying to look out for leandros
>>46230099
I'm not sure you understand the volume of recruits these places are going to be dealing with.
>>46226226
nice OP pic.
>>46226226
yay for complex costumes.
>>46235474
How do you increase the number of commissars, if for every new recruit an old one has to be killed? You can't have anymore recruits than you have old commissars. What if a commissar dies before a recruit can get to them?
>>46230544
>Again, OP didn't ask about awakened tombs, just about tombs in general. Necron tombs have been there for eons, but we don't have much about anyone else encountering them prior to Imperium fucking around with them in 40k.
Again you do not read.
The humans and other races encountered them but they were sleeping. They just fought Centoptek robots or destroyed tomb worlds which they plundered.
Necrons before 30K did not have the capacity to awaklen!
>>46230378
Its hinted that mankind was so adept at shaping the warp in 20k it could give machines souls.
Thats how the men of Iron ended up being corrupted by chaos.
Simple. Pre-Fall Humanity have Hax levels of technology, with warships such as the Speranza (Most likely designed to face off with the Pre-Fall Eldar Empire, which are at the time, filled with Hedonistic Murder-rapist Psychic elves with unlimited respawn). They have far greater resources than the current Imperium and could conceivably even face off with the necrons in a fair fight (Especially when the Necrons would be heavily outnumbered, not to mention, facing off legions of Men of Iron and Castigator-class titans). it is also not unfathomable that Dark-age Humanity could have analyse or even reverse-engineer some of that sweeet necron tech (Especially if it is dormant).
But the main crux of that theory is that Human colonists land on sleeping tomb world. Nothing happens. Auspex scans show nothing of note. Looks like an ordinary planet. Colonise. The End.
>>46240144
>Necrons before 30K did not have the capacity to awaklen!
I never said they did. We were talking about the tombs themselves, not Necrons per se.
Also, got sources on DAoT humans encountering Necron tombs or not encountering them, such as the one on Mars?
>>46240260
>Also, got sources on DAoT humans encountering Necron tombs or not encountering them, such as the one on Mars?
The 5th ED codex says that primitive races plundered the sleeping and damage tombs of the Necrons. Considering that the Oldcron codex and other oldcron sources hints that DAoT tech might have been plundered from the Necrons, humanity was among the races that stole from the Necrons.
Also in the Shield of Baal, humans in the DAoT and then eventually the Imperium, found and used a massive Necron orbital as a power source.
>>46233098
I find it amusing that this setting already has humanity ruling literally the entire goddamn galaxy in modern times, yet you people still feel the need to deny Eldar power in the past and make it so that humans were never inferior and always at least equal. Is it so terrible that there was a time in history when humanity was simply not on top by any means?
>>46240414
Especially considering that the whole point of the Fall was that there was nothing that could hold a candle to the Eldar so they grew decadent in their little paradise.
>>46240414
The problem is that there is a period in 40k lore where canonically both humanity and the eldar had galaxy spanning empires, it doesn't make a huge amount of sense
>>46240542
Galaxy spanning in that humanity probably had worlds all over the place (seeing how spread out the Imperium is and a lot of their planets date back the the DAoT) where as Eldar were the dominating force in the galaxy, but their power was more centralized (which is why the Fall was so devastating, since it pretty much wiped them all out).
>>46226226
Nigger, pre fall humanity has been fucking with the necrons well before the Emperor. Like the Void Dragon C'tan? The very same C'tan the Emp barely managed to seal which is far more impressive than it sounds considering it is the most powerful C'tan in existence, both past and present, and we all know how the C'tan are immune to the warp.
I'm not entirely sure if it was pre or pretty close to the beginning of fall that he did this, but I do remember he did this well before coming out, because he figured he may have needed the Cult of Mechanicus in the future.
>>46240626
>we all know how the C'tan are immune to the warp
Which is precisely why the blackstone fortresses and their massive warp cannons were created to combat the C'tan, the Void-Dragon in particular.
>>46226226
That art style is really impressive! Is there a psyker one?
>>46240542
The galaxy is a very big place you know?
>>46240597
Yeah, there are also probably worlds of overlap (Eldar+Xenos+Humans).
The Eldar had nearly God-tier technology and hax psykers/constructs that made labour effectively redundant. They had their own empire (Which is represented by the current-day Eye of Terror), which is pretty fuckpuny, even compared to DAoT Humanity. They don't even bother expanding because there is no fucking point, they have everything they need (As the most ancient race in the Galaxy, after the necrons). So they start murderfucking each other.
It should be noted that during age of strife, there were numerous alien overlords, ruling entire interstellar empire of Human slaves/crop. So it could be possible for that during DAoT, a good number of Humanity's planets are interracial in nature(With many races living 'peacefully' with mankind, much like Star Trek/Star Wars).
it also should be noted that during the great Crusade+ Macharian Crusade, numerous unknown alien domains are cleansed and annexed as part of the Imperium.
>>46240640
Retconned.
>>46240640
Wasn't that more of a case where how an all piercing sword won't interact with an impenetrable shield, so instead, when you're fighting an impenetrable shield, you start beating the shit out of it with your own impenetrable shield?
I actually may be thinking about Chaos that doesn't interact very well with the C'tan, now that I think about it, since really, before they were trapped by the Necrons, weren't they just clouds of barely sentient energy feeding on stars?
Necron shit is actually the one thing I haven't read all that much into since I heard any of the books dealing with the Necrons are god fucking awful, like 60% of the other literature.
>>46240626
>and we all know how the C'tan are immune to the warp.
The only version of Necron lore that bothered to talk about this stated the exact opposite:
>The hot-blooded young races spread across the galaxy, battling Necron science with warp-spawned magicks. The C'tan's empire of destruction was sent reeling; the forces of the Empyrean were anathema to them and, for all the hellish destruction they unleashed, they could not stay the Old Ones' relentless advance.
>As the Nightbringer prepared to begin its long slumber, the Deceiver's final machinations unfolded. It had betrayed the whereabouts of the Nightbringer's tomb world to its enemies and an armada of alien vessels attempted to destroy the death god before it could escape into stasis. They were unsuccessful, but banished the Nightbringer's most potent weapon into the Immaterium, a realm that is anathema to the star-gods, thus preventing it from accumulating the vast amounts of the energy it required to survive its entombment.
And after the 5th edition retcrons, the Dragon of Mars isn't even a full C'tan anymore, just a shard, even if a particularly big one. Plus the most recent codex has gone with the idea of the Nightbringer as the most powerful C'tan - according to legend, admittedly, but the Oldcron Dragon's "most powerful" status was also according to legend. Then there's this as well:
>Millions of years after the demise of the C’tan, shards of the Nightbringer remain the most dangerous and difficult to control for the Necrons.However, the generic Transcendent C'tan - which is now the replacement for generic C'tan Shards rather than a super-shard - still has higher Ballistic Skill, Strength, and Wounds.
>>46240853
>but banished the Nightbringer's most potent weapon into the Immaterium, a realm that is anathema to the star-gods, thus preventing it from accumulating the vast amounts of the energy it required to survive its entombment.
Yet somehow in the novel he managed to contact it and direct it while it was in the Warp.
Also this is all ancient fluff. Newer fluff has a Deceiver shard fighting Cypher IN DA WARP.
>as the most powerful C'tan - according to legend, admittedly, but the Oldcron Dragon's "most powerful" status was also according to legend.
According to NECRON legends. Who would you trust more with knowledge about the C'tan. Of course, the Necrons. Thus the Nightbringer was the mightiest.
>>46240766
I doubt the Age of Strife was good time for anyone. BL writing about peaceful alien conglomerates working together for a better tomorrow is the sort of stuff they whipped up just so that Imperium can be the bad guy through and through from the very beginning. Especially when the Eldar, so fucking uppity race that they shit diamonds, and especially at a time in their history when everything's shit, decides to let a bunch of dirty humans to live on their world. Did they just forget all the old fluff about how knights were created purely to fight Eldar for the dominance of worlds?
>>46240778
Into what? I'd really like to see this "C'tan are totes immune to the warp, m8" fluff you clearly have.
Read, my nigger.
I said during the DAoT, not the AoS
>>46240906
>624.M36 A Blade out of Time
>Although impossible to fix in time, this seems to be the first recorded instance where Cypher is seen carrying the C’tan phase knife – a weapon similar to the C’tan phase sword used by the Callidus Assassins. The blade of the knife can phase in and out of real-space by dimensional realignment, so it is capable of bypassing armour and protective fields. The knife was at some point lost in battle with the C’tan known as the Deceiver in the opening stages of the 13th Black Crusade, however, the battle occurred in the Warp and seems to have been subject to a strange loop in either the time continuum or reality itself. Cypher is most often seen without the blade, but true to its name, the knife occasionally phases back into being beneath his cloak.
If the Warp was anathema to C'tan, then how come a Deceiver Shard was spotted in the Warp?
Also there is the feeding on the souls thing. Souls being psychic reflections of mortal beings in the Warp.
>>46240779
Reading on Necron fluff is pretty pointless, seeing that there's no consistency at all. They're suppose to be pretty bad at fighting psykers, but can pacify entire regions of the warp and fuck with psychics. Orikan's predictions are being fucked by the warp because he can't into it, yet in other sources he totally can into warp. C'tan eat bio-energy, except they eat souls, except it's called life energy, which in some sources is souls and in other not-souls.
>>46240930
If none can touch the warp and emerge unscathed, why is there just a bunch of people running around the warp doing non-Chaos related shit? Like Draigo, that one Marine in the Daemon Codex that almost punched Slaanesh, Tuska and his boys, etc.?
But do tell me what the purpose of the blackstone fortresses is now that the C'tan are totally immune to the warp in all its forms.
>>46240934
>yet in other sources he totally can into warp.
His predictions are messed up by the Warp. He can, however, screw with the threads of fate using his mathematical science.
The Herald in Damnos did this Tigurius but to a lesser extent.
>They're suppose to be pretty bad at fighting psykers
They are not said to be that. It's only said that more powerful psykers are the surest defence against other psykers. They didn't say that Necron methods are ineffective or that they are weak against the Warp. Only that powerful psykers are surer counters to other psykers than Necron methods.
>>46240960
>If none can touch the warp and emerge unscathed
That's just an Imperial saying. It's not necessarily factual.
>But do tell me what the purpose of the blackstone fortresses is now that the C'tan are totally immune to the warp in all its forms.
Celestial décor.
>>46240976
>They are not said to be that.
5e codex. Only good way to fight a psyker is another psyker, but without native psychic abilities they're shit and best they can do is deploy null field matrices (which sound like Gellar fields) on their tomb worlds to hinder warp energy bleeding through. And those fields are mostly for tomb worlds, since they're too big and fragile.
>>46240976
did this to Tigurius*
>>46241011
>Only good way to fight a psyker is another psyker,
Wrong.
It's the surest method. It doesn't mean that all other methods are shit.
Necrons (especially in the Damnos novel which came with the codex) have been showed to wield technology that shutdown psykers.
>>46240976
>can't into the warp
>but somehow can into something warp based by pure science, because science and logic is something that the warp totally adheres to
>>46241026
And in the codex their best bet was to hinder their abilities a bit.
You see any inconsistency here? In one source their best bet is to make using psychic powers a bit hard, in another to completely shut them down.
>>46241048
>Some were tough and sinewy, others light as
>Different species?
>It made no difference, both were just as fragile.
>Energy beams stabbed it. Minor irritations. Its armour was proof against such primitive low-emission weapons. Crackling arcs of strange storm-lights struck it, psychic body blows of doom-seeking power. Ancient null-circuitry worked into its body dissipated these attacks harmlessly.
>Did these meat-things know nothing of Vodanus?
-Gods of Mars
It's not their best bet. You reading into the "Surest defense" line and misunderstanding it. Powerful psykers are just the best defense against psykers. Though, Necrons methods are less effective than powerful psykers into shuting down psykers, they are nonetheless effective and they produce results.
Like in the green text above from the recent Admech novel where Necron null circuitry protected the assassin bots from the Farseer attacks.
>>46241034
>Eldritch Mathematical equations based on alignment of stars and the knowledge of eldritch dimensional rending and reality shaping Star Gods shouldn't affect the Warp
Come on. The Warp is just a twisted mirror of reality.
>>46240670
It is, it's just that both pieces of fluff make it sound like their respective factions are the big bosses, the eldar fall fluff doesn't mention a human empire at all. I'd like them to flesh out this part of their universe's history, in fact a general sweep through all of it Foundation style would be cool.
>>46226247
It's like I'm on /mlp/
>>46241103
>Come on. The Warp is just a twisted mirror of reality.
Come on, read some actual fluff.
>>46241648
I did.
The warp is a dimension filled with psychic energy. It acts like mirror reflection of reality.
>>46241103
>they are nonetheless effective and they produce results.
When did I say Necrons didn't have any defences? In the codex it says that to compensate their lack of psychic defences they got the null field matrices, which make a psyker "unable to utilize his full power" and daemons to "flicker in and out of existence." And these things are mainly found in tombs.
That's hardly just completely shutting down psykers or pacifying entire sections of space and sending messages through the warp (IA vol. 12).
So where does the line go? Are they lacking in the psychic defence front or are they better at fucking psychic shit up than any other faction? Is warp a mystery to them or do they play it like a damn fiddle?
>>46241706
Well, it sure as hell doesn't seem like it.
If you know anything about the warp, you'd know that it's a real void of matter and logic. It's a realm unbound from time and causality. You cannot see it, smell it or touch it. It is a realm of dreams and emotions. No math can calculate it, not science can study it. Even strong psykers cannot even begin to comprehend its nature without being driven mad.
>>46241725
>When did I say Necrons didn't have any defences?
You implied that their defences are somehow ineffective.
>they got the null field matrices, which make a psyker "unable to utilize his full power" and daemons to "flicker in and out of existence." And these things are mainly found in tombs.
They give examples of the least they can do but we saw that if turned up, null fields can banish daemons from reality and calm warp storms. Heck, in recent fluff, Necron buildings in the Ghoul Stars were said to be anathema to daemons. Also null fields can be deployed outside of tombs.
You are just hung up on a single throw away line for some reason which you misunderstand. One would think that you change your reasoning once you read the recent fluff in which it's shown that the authors are working with a wholly different logic and understanding of that line.
> Are they lacking in the psychic defence front or are they better at fucking psychic shit up than any other faction?
They are not lacking. In fact, they are quite able. However, their anti-warp tech is not on the same level bar with powerful psykers.
They cannot counter the Warp at the same level as the Emperor or the Grey Knights for example.
>Is warp a mystery to them or do they play it like a damn fiddle?
They cannot use its power but they can mess with it.
>>46241770
>No math can calculate it, not science can study it. Even strong psykers cannot even begin to comprehend its nature without being driven mad.
Objectively false
Considering that Orikan mathematical calculations influenced the Warp and derailed the warp based sight of the Alaitocii seers.
Further false, considering the science of the Warp has been studied and documented by the many factions of the setting.
>>46241894
Ah...more about Orkian.
While Orikan is able to mess with the Warp via his celestial calculations. the warp delights in messing with his equations which cause his calculations to produce wrong results.
It's a cute back and forth
>>46226226
I imagine they woke them killed them then thought nothing further of it.
>>46241866
>You implied that their defences are somehow ineffective.
Compared to having another psyker or psychic tech like wards, and blanks, yes, by what the codex says, it is. Certainly not as effective as other sources say. Hence the inconsistency.
>if turned up, null fields can banish daemons from reality and calm warp storms. Heck, in recent fluff, Necron buildings in the Ghoul Stars were said to be anathema to daemons. Also null fields can be deployed outside of tombs.
Hence the inconsistencies.
>>46241894
>Objectively false
Objectively the actual fluff from Codex: Chaos Daemons. Hence the inconsistency.
>Orikan
The same Orikian whose predictions cannot factor in the warp? Hence the inconsistency.
>Warp has been studied and documented by the many factions of the setting.
Studied and documented by factions with psychic abilities. And you clearly have evidence of how accurate and coherent those studies are, seeing that for example how Navigators perceive the warp varies according to the individual. Even the Eldar don't always agree on warp based things. For example in Farseer the titular farseer had visions he was acting upon, but the other seers of his craftworld did not agree with him on these visions and did not see the need to act on them.
>>46240414
We're in the 2nd millennium, anon. Dark Age of Technology humanity was sometime around the 20th+.
>>46229491
>DAoT humanity with all their shit didn't come across any of them
And you know that how?
>>46242816
>We're in the 2nd millennium, anon.
Think you mean 3rd. 1st is 0-999, 2nd is 1000-1999 and 3rd is 2000-2999. DAoT was, depending on the source, M15 or M18 to M25, when the Age of Strife began.
>>46244298
And you know that they did how?
There's a tomb complex on Mars that's a complete mystery to all with active security. Like you'd think someone at some point during the few dozen millennia that humanity was building all that industry there would have picked up something and decided to stick their nose in there proper, but apparently not. Because it's still active. And where's all the other tomb complexes overtaken from their slumbering occupants?
>>46244386
>And you know that they did how?
I'm not the one making assumptions.
So go on, tell us the comprehensive history of a civilisation that is deliberately left shrouded in mystery.
>>46244423
>I'm not the one making assumptions.
Except that you're assuming, without any solid evidence, that it has happened.
Maybe they did, but there's no clear evidence of it happening and my biggest beef is that if it happened, where did it all go? If DAoT humans found a sleeping tomb complex and managed to subdue it (seeing that they had the tech and tombs would have operated on automated defences), where did all those tombs go? Did they just abandon them? Raid them and stick everything inside into a museum? Why was the tomb on Mars left unchecked? Surely in 65 million years some of those dead worlds the tombs were placed on managed to seed life. Earth has gone through more than a few extinction level events in the past 65 million years and it bounced back. If there were several complexes found, even if not captured, surely someone somewhere would have made a note of dangerous alien rowboats that could have been discovered later Imperials during, say, the Great Crusade, when purging of hostile aliens was a thing. Surely ancient texts warning of such discoveries would have warranted at least a check. Didn't the Emperor have some info on old human colonies that he operated on when setting up his Crusade, not just flying around the galaxy blind, hoping to come across human settlements. Hell, during the Age of Strife Mars sent several ships out to make contact with colonies. They surely had some info gathered about what's out there. But they didn't know anything about the tomb beneath their feet. At least nothing public.
>>46244631
>Except that you're assuming, without any solid evidence, that it has happened.
Nope. I just want to know how you know that it never happened. Because if you don't know then you should say "DAoT humanity with all their shit didn't come across any of them".
>>46244631
>Why was the tomb on Mars left unchecked?
The Guardian of the Dragon (An immortal that the Emperor tasked with looking after the Dragon) and the Cult of the Dragon would kill anyone that trespassed and threatened to awaken the Dragon.
You cannot even begin to fathom how powerful the Dragon of Mars is. If used with conjunction with the device "Breath of Gods", it can recreate the big bang. The Emperor made sure that the secret of the Dragon never escaped the Noctis Labyrinth. However, the Necrons and Hereteks discovered that secret. They are coming for that Dragon.
>>46244725
As far as the fluff tells us, they didn't. The moment we get some concrete, I'll be happy to change my tune.
>>46244748
Wasn't that fluff from during the time before C'tan got sharded? And did the Emperor create the faction the moment Mars colonization began? How did he make sure nobody never, ever got any wind of anything shady? Wasn't the whole point that humans would learn the secrets of the Necron tech and help humanity? But if nobody was allowed, how was that gonna happen?
>>46244772
>As far as the fluff tells us, they didn't.
No, the fluff tells us nothing on the matter.
Maybe they did, maybe they didn't.
>>46244856
Exactly, as far as the fluff tells us. If they did, then maybe it'd be mentioned somewhere.
We can always make wild claims that of course there's a planet of pink dinosaurs, because the fluff hasn't explicitly said there isn't one. But I would not consider a planet of pink dinosaurs canon until there's any clear evidence that one does exist.
>>46244834
>Wasn't that fluff from during the time before C'tan got sharded?
Nah, it's still a thing. Gods of Mars and The World Engine confirmed the existence of the Dragon of Mars. It's now a vast Shard of the Void Dragon.
The whole point of putting the Dragon shard there was to influence the colonists that would settle there via its dreams. It never interacted with them directly.
The region is very dangerous with natural and unnatural hazards. There are made AI constructs and servitors out for blood. There are alien crystal formations that sap energy from mechanical and living things. There are mad cultists roaming the region. Plenty of hazards and if you manage to get passed them all, you have to face the Guardian of the Dragon who is empowered by a portion of the Emperor's power.
Even with all those dangers and with the region made forbidden, expeditions go there. Few return. Most of them are made food for the Dragon to keep it calm.
>>46244991
>The whole point of putting the Dragon shard there was to influence the colonists that would settle there via its dreams.
I really wonder how the Emperor thought that was gonna work out.
>>46244953
>If they did, then maybe it'd be mentioned somewhere.
Maybe, maybe not.
We know next to nothing about DAoT humans.
>We can always make wild claims that of course there's a planet of pink dinosaurs, because the fluff hasn't explicitly said there isn't one.
The difference in this case is we know that Necrons are a thing and are wide spread around the galaxy, it would not even be implausible for DAoT humans to have encountered them.
