Does /tg/ appreciate Nasuverse lore?
>>46222028
i am a Fate/ scholar.
>>46222028
I don't. /tg/ does.
Mostly because it creates autistic neckbeards on the subject, like >>46222059 and it reminds me of the time I thought I knew a lot of nasuverse.
It's a clusterfuck of a setting.
>>46222028
Every board hates Typemoon.
I enjoy the source material, I hate the fandom.
I feel like all the sperging over the minutiae of the nasuverse magic system and how ability x interacts with effect y is utterly meaningless, and completely misses the point.
In the source material, conflict is never about the powers. The powers are awesome, but the explanations of them are basically just an endless torrent of mystic technobabble used to justify what happens, but the result is always based on a deeper conflict- The conflict between personalities, ideologies and concepts.
It's that layer which makes the nasuverse really interesting to me, but people get so obsessed with the windowdressing they completely miss the thematic heart of the whole thing.
>>46222046
It actually belongs on /jp/
>>46222028
Nasuverse in a nutshell:
"This law can't be broken... Except by this character!!"
or to put it in another way:
Tohsaka's anus
>>46222028
Nasuverse?
Is that like the Naruto universe? I am genuinely confused.
>>46222215
No. It's just weebshit porn games gone too far.
>>46222268
I enjoyed the anime and give no fucks about the VN.
>>46222215
Franchise started by a visual novel around people summoning historical and mythological figures to fight for the holy grail.
Notable for turning king arthur into a chick because cute girls sell more than good stories and thus starting a trend of shitting all over historical figures and bringing in the worst of the anime/weaboo/otaku crowd.
Apparently has some good action anime adaptions, but I'd say it's still not worth it dealing with the fans.
>>46222295
You're what is called a secondary, anon.
>>46222326
Indeed. It's pretty fucking retarded.
The design choices don't even really make a lot of sense even when he decides "Oh, this guy is a dude like he should be!".
Well, usually when it's Japanese stuff, but his ideas about European stuff are about par for the course in terms of being hilariously misinformed or wrong. (The strange stuff with Nuns and Priests, kind of fucking retarded weapons and armor, other stuff.)
>>46222028
It's good for being a setting where a wizard can fight a ghost knight; it's shit when its fans act like there's an obvious way a fight between two made up magic people should go.
Is it true that Toksaka Rin pleases old men for money?
>>46222350
And?
>>46222567
I wonder who could be behind this post.
>>46222295
>>46222575
No, Nasu's a hack and should be bludgeoned to death with books about european history and mythologyTfw Saint George is rider and not lancer
I like the concepts behind Fate/. The Grail War, magecraft, servant system, etc. is all well and good.
However as a minor history buff and a fantasy writer I hate the execution of a few aspects.EMIYA's summon making no god damn sense, Arthur's battle dress seemingly being intended for a Rider class rather than Saber, Medusa's... Everything.
And then there's the cluster fuck that's Grand Order. Fuck everything to do with Grand Order and Nasuverse!Solomon.
/Extra is fun and doesn't seem to break its own rules the same way most of the series does. Which is surprising given that it ignores most of the rules in the series. Thanks Moon Cell.
>>46222567Ohohohoho
>>46222028
I appreciate the parts of it that aren't directly connected to Fate/ shit.
>>46222028
No, because his bullshit won't let the White Death be a noble phantasm
>>46223662
That's the Sniper Guy from World War 2, right? I thought you could summon the gun instead.
>>46222870
>Tfw Saint George is rider and not lancer
I'm a secondary who doesn't give a shit about anything in the Nasuverse besides the porn and even I know that Servants can be of plenty of different classes depending on which one they're summoned into
>>46222028
I think I've given it a fair shot, and I've come to the conclusion that Nasu is kinda shit a lot of the time.
Battle dresses are fucking stupid.
>>46222870
what about Sekkou boys.
>>46223662
>his bullshit won't let the White Death be a noble phantasm
Wait for fate/grand order to keep going
Given its profit margins I would be astounded if it didn't continue to the point where they start including westaboo favorites like simo, red baron, etc just to add new servants
It's kind of amazing to me how Nasu is capable of churning out all this batshit lore constantly. I'd have lost track of my creation ages ago, and I suspect many sane people would be with me on that.
>>46222028
Somewhat. The universe is actually interesting but the actual writing is terrible and that's why you'll find many people here knowledgeable about the nasuverse despite no being loved as a whole.
Or at least it was because Fate GO fucked up everything with it's MASSIVE powercreep.
>>46222326
>Apparently has some good action anime adaptions
Not really, as for the action scene they still haven't managed to top a fight from the magical girl spin-off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfSdCSM9s9k
>>46223032
>EMIYA's summon making no god damn sense
What's wrong with it?
>>46223737
Sniper guy from the Winter War (Finns vs Russia, pre-WW2) Simo Hayha (On the Finns side) Actually had a shit ton of kills.
The sniper guy from WW2 was Vassilli Zaitsev, Russian sniper, lots of kills, but mostly propoganda.
>>46225753
I can only hope that the westaboo favorites show up, I'd be interested (and subsequently disappointed) to see how they get included.
>>46225656
San Giorgio a best
>>46224642
I think he only appeared in Grand Order and only as rider. I don't know much about the newer Fate/ stuff though
>>46225780
>Not really, as for the action scene they still haven't managed to top a fight from the magical girl spin-off
I thought to myself, wow this scene must be really good if none of the actions in UBW could top it. Then I opened it and got some badly animated mediocre fighting that you probably enjoy because it has loli bellybuttons, I'm not going to judge you anon but that's not how I measure the quality of my fight scenes.
>>46222028
/tg/ approves ofOld Men and Money
>>46226516
>but that's not how I measure the quality of my fight scenes.
Well I'm sorry your taste is so shit
>>46222028
Newfag to fate, read 2 random articles on wiki.
My head hurts, i can taste purple and i think i just lost around 5-6 virginities.
10/10 would recommend.
>>46222028
I've heard it said that Nasu is good at world building even though his prose is terrible. I don't really get that, his world building seems awfully inefficient and indecisive to me.
>>46226516
You are so retarded that hurts to read shit like that.
>>46226516
UBW's fight felt incredibly underwhelming IMO.
>badly animated
Actually, while it didn't reach UBW tier of animation, it was well above the standard in the anime industry.
>mediocre
None of the fight in UBW has battle choregraphy that can even hope to compare with this one.
>you probably enjoy because it has loli bellybuttons
>implying
At least try to hide that bias.
>>46222268
>all that shit
jesus fuck
I love it, but there's a lot of flaws to it.
Stay far from powercreep and waifuwars threads.
>>46222028
Ah, the Nasuverse. Full of great ideas but absolutely awful executions.
It's a gigantic, stupid, clusterfuck mess.
I love it.
I hate it for taking the Grail War idea and making it shit so now nobody else can ever use it.
>>46222567
Rin is cute! CUTE!
>>46222028
I appreciate Aoko's lore if you know what I mean.
>>46222028
It's like a better World of Darkness.
>>46222028
Yes, it's the exact kind of clusterfuck that I love to spend 300+ posts arguing about the minute details of.
>>46222028
It's like a worse World of Darkness.
I read tsukihime, fsn and watched knk.
I have no clue what a 90% of the things people seem to talk about is.
ORT? What? Where is it even fucking from? Why do you keep talking about it? 5 years latter i still have no idea
>>46222326
He said nasuverse, not fate. Nasuverse started with Tsukihime. Or maybe KnK, not sure when that was released. Anyways, Tsukihime just get less attention because it's less battle-shonen-y and doesn't really have anything comparable to servants for people to OC DONUT STEEL over
>>46226897
Actually I'm pretty sure the Nasuverse started with Angel Notes, an 'after the end' type of story. Someone posted the entirety of it in the TM thread on /jp/ and it should still be up.
Who is the best girl in Nasuverse and why is it Tamamo?
>>46226896
so as you know, full power Arc is essentially Type earth right?
ORT is type mercury, with weirdass superabilities and is nigh unkillable, its brought into more detail in fate/notes really.
>>46226963
>http://poal.me/54drq4
She's quite literally at the top
>>46222567
Exhentai
Kotori
You'll thank me later.
>>46226896
>>46226968
>>46226575
It's fairly indecisive. He's retconned quite a few things over the years. I have no idea how world building can be "inefficient".
It's not necessarily that his prose is terrible - the prose for Tsukihime can be pretty poetic at times. The translations, however, namely the translation of Fate, are very stilted and poorly written.
>>46226932
Ah he's, forgot about that. I'm not sure if that really counts, since it's older than type moon as a company.
>>46227094
A lot of stuff from it has been mentioned in various Type-Moon works, so I'd say it does.
>>46222180
>I enjoy the source material, I hate the fandom.
I'm in this boat. Only came around from hating the source material due to the fandom recently.
>>46227039
>this chair
>>46222028
The only good thing that came out of the entirety of Nasuverse is Carnival Phantasm and Koha Ace.
>but muh Prisma Ilya!
It's shit.
>>46227170
>>46227157
As funny as it is, things like this do a pretty good job of conveying how Shiki's losing his fucking mind in context.
He also takes advantage of the VN format to do some things with text placement, as I recall. It has been a while though.
>>46226846
>>46226878
>>46227191
the prototype OVA from phantasm was pretty sweet
I'd be down on a series of that.
>>46226495
he was originally going to be in the apocrypha MMO which was turned into a novel. and then the leftovers of the MMO were turned into Grand Order.
he has only been shown as rider but it doesn't change the fact that he qualifies for other class.
>>46227191
>It's shit.
You're shit
>>46222588
>>46223136
She needs to get over her teasing and just confess she wants Rin between her legs.
>>46227272
Yeah, but the fact that he was introduced as rider when his most famous act is literally lancing a dragon is slightly questionable, don't you thinkk?
>>46226846
How?
Fate Zero was the only thing I have seen from it that was even halfway watchable. The rest is a bunch of waifu shit that doesn't even stand up to WODs worse game lines.
>>46227468
>Watch
There's your problem
>>46225780
>Just straight-up Dragonball Z at the end
>>46222268
>multiple days to finish
maybe I'm just a casual, but this seems really excessive.
At 96 hours I'm fairly confident I could find something better to do with my time
>>46227739
It only takes about half that if you just want the 3 main endings. And you can easily take breaks between routes. I took a week off between Unlimited Blade Works and Heaven's Feel.
>>46222268
Christ. And one of the most important pieces of information there is one that is not stated directly: This is not a game where you steer the story and make it your own, taking advantage of the interactive medium and ending the experience after finding the one and only ending that makes sense for you. This is a movie you have to click on after each line of dialog, and one that you're expected to keep playing over and over until you've seen every possible ending. Why the hell would you do that?
>>46227739
There's a decent Let's Play on LPArchive if you don't feel like actually playing it. It's mostly text and screenshots, with video for figts and the like, and it covers all the important stuff while letting you read at your own pace.
>>46228093
>watching a let's play of a VN
Pleasse tell me people don't do this
>>46228139
It's useful for quick reference and quote-hunting, but as for actually having that be your primary way of reading it I shiggy diggy.
Then again, Let's Plays that translate the moonrunes so that we filthy secondaries can read it are alright. Not too many of those around, though.
>>46228093
That sounds absolutely retarded, as expected from LPfags.
>>46226516
>I thought to myself, wow this scene must be really good if none of the actions in UBW could top it.
It's not hard to top UBW's fights, considering they had really fucking mediocre choreography hidden with special effects and a bunch of cheap animation techniques that made them look better at first glance than they really were.
>>46227739
You're on 4chan. Clearly, you don't value your time much.
>>46227260
That would most likely cause a fuckload of rage thanks to Manaka. If you know about Prototype: Fragments you'd understand why.
>>46226968
There's no fate/notes, just Notes
>>46226932
Nope, the first story of the universe will be Witch on the Holy Night, which was originally written when he was high school.
>>46227094
Tsukihime was also published before Type moon was a company, you know.
>>46222215
It's like the Naruto universe if it never had its first four good volumes.
>>46229848
>Tsukihime was also published before Type moon was a company, you know
No it wasn't. It was their first release, in December '00. Unless you mean the demo, in which case I have no idea and don't really care.
Also Kara No Kyoukai was the first thing Nasu published, came out in '98. Notes was '99.
It's retarded shit on every level.
>>46230083
Type-moon was not a company when they release Tsukihime, it was just a doujin group.
It only became a company in 2003.
Kara No Kyoukai's actual publication is 2001.
before that is just a post on the diary.
Witch on the Holy Night was "published" to like 5 guy back when he was in high school.
>>46227354
not the first servant to have his first appearance be in a non optimal class.
I want to cum inside Saber Nero.
>>46230707
ROMANES EUNT DOMAS
>>46230707
I want her uncle to rape her.
>>46230764
>>46230724
>>46230707
>>46222028
>Saber
>Doesn't use a saber
>Lancer
>Doesn't use a lance
>Rider
>Doesn't ride a mount
The only redeeming thing is ufotable's Fate/Zero.
Also
>>>/a/
>>46231001
i prefer tamamo
>>46233104
Tamamo prefers you!
>>46227468
>watchable
>doesn't read VN
It's fine, I just like it because of all the S tier waifu material, especially pic related.
>>46227739
It's a pretty good story, and you can do it faster by just speeding through the text/only going for the endings.
>>46233104
this
>>46226871
Sacchin;_;
>>46238102
>>46236011
but that would be pointless.
Saber is actually very unlikeable outside of SN/HA, skipping through the daily dialogue complete miss the point.
>>46231400
If anything it'd be >>>/jp/ you tremendous pleb
I like the idea of historical figure Pokemon wizard death wars but the lore is really way up its own ass
>>46227739
>At 96 hours I'm fairly confident I could find something better to do with my time
if none of the characters are instant waifu tier, it seems pretty wasteful, yeah
idk how anyone who isn't a saberfag/rinfag/fujo gets through it all
>>46230676
That makes it even worse, really.
>>46235771
I thought I made it pretty clear that I wasn't interested in the waifu shit and since the visual novel is a hentai game then I assume they lay it on thick.
>>46222268
You just know some autistic sperg from /a/ wrote this while jacking off to Find anus scene
Fate/Zero Gilgamesh and Alexander
One of the precious few Fuckawesome shit that came out of the franchise (I did enjoy Kara No Kyokai though)
>>46238745
Why bother when you aren't even interested in the waifus?And even the waifus are pretty mediocre
>>46238745
Tip, there's hentai games that were made hentai just because its easier to attract customer.
A lot of them are perfectly fine without the hentai, its just there so it qualify as a hentai game.
Companies like Key or Nitro+ are both known for games like this.
Fate realta nua is F/SN with Voice over but without the hentai and it works perfectly fine.
>>46238745
The waifus seemed more tacked-on that anything else, but it's been a while since I bothered with anything Fate.
I do remember having the no-H patch and it affecting basically jack shit so there's that.
>>46227170
The "This chair"s start off displaying 1, flashing the screen red, then displaying 2 etc. and each time adding chairs faster and flashing the screen red each time, it's actually one of the better scenes, but looks dumb without the VN flair.
>>46227191
>Implying anything that gave us this face could be all bad
I'll rape you in the bum m8
>>46238904
or I was thinking of a scene from fate or something because after looking up that exact spot it's not what I remembered, shit.
I wonder if you could summon dracula as a servant, Not vlad using legend of dracula, the fictional one.
Maybe a 1st edition of dracula as a catalyst?
>>46239229
Happened, actually, iirc. It summoned Vlad as a vampire. He hated it
>>46222028
Kara no Kyoukai is about the only thing I appreciate now. Sure, Fate and shit are fun... but...
KnK is that paranormal magic-leaking-into-reality kind of feeling. It reminds me a lot of the World of Darkness settings. There's paranormal shit, and if you know about it, you deal with it regularly, but to everybody else it doesn't exist.
When you get into superpowered laserbeam wars then it just kinda goes out the window at that point.
>>46239318
Didn't i say NOT vlad. if one were to summon fictional drac i wonder what his NPs would be....
>>46222567
OHOHOHOHO.Hearing her do Lux in League of Legends is such a boner too.
>>46239418
If you want to have a good time, jine the cavalry, jine the cavalry, jine the cavalry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XquoxxcHmdc [Embed]
So if Nasuverse is just a shittier World of Darkness, how hard would it be to run a Grail War campaign with the WoD's system?
>>46239373
Considering how often Count Dracula has been depicted in fiction, he would probably have a more potent "bonus" for fame. His NP could be similar, with him being able to call upon powers based on which adaption of Dracula is the most popular in that region or era.
>>46239465
>So if Nasuverse is just a shittier World of Darkness
More the other way around
>>46239524
>attacking the analogy instead of answering the question
>>46239318
The berserker Vlad who were summoned as a vampire is actually fine with it.
>>46239345
actually that's the tone for TM every game up to Fate/Hollow ataraxia.
Daily life mixed without inhuman battle.
But so many ppl don't read the between texts these days.
>>46227354
Classes aren't classes like in D&D, they're constructs to serve as hosts for a spirit. So in their natural form nobody has a class, and spirits are summoned into ill fitting classes all the time, even as a plot point.
>>46231400
Don't forget
>Archer
>doesn't use a bow
>Assassin
>doesn't assassinate anyone
>>46239582
>even as a plot point
Please tell me this is why Black beard isn't a berserker, last I checked
>>46239551
I'm attacking the analogy because of how WoD shits everything up with having to put its own spin on everything plus horribly thought out rules, just maximize your stats and do an extended cast, win.
>>46231400
Heard you were taking shit.
>>46239636
People generally only select the Berserker class if they're completely desperate.
>>46239654
In other words: "Don't"
In that case what would be a good system for Fate/ shenanigans?
>>46239671
Black beard would still be one of the best non-Scandinavian HS to be berserker though
>>46222028
Yes, but I'm gonna fight you because you posted the worst Aoko of all. Brown hair a shit, red hair only.
>>46239636
Anyone who is famous for using transport of some kind is best fit as a rider, which is why all the pirates are rider so far.
Black Beard is the mid boss of the 3rd chapter in F/GO
kinda hard to make him work if he is a berserker.
>>46238745
Play the Realta Nua version. No porn whatsoever.
>>46239698
>Anyone who is famous for using transport of some kind is best fit as a rider
What about people who were famous for fighting from horseback, like Dschingis Khan or Attila?
>>46239760
They also fit. It's why Alex the Great was a Rider.
>>46239697
Her sister's better.
>>46239760
Depends on if their mount is famous, apparently.
>>46239465
Not hard. There was a homebrew book of it, complete with merits based on all the Nasu games.
http://heavens-feel.com/fate_nasuverse_rpg.html
>>46239774
The macedons were really famous for the pike phalanx though, the Hetairoi were just a nice bonus
>>46239760
Nah, don't you know? Attila was famous for being a brown tribal slut with a rainbow sword. Obviously a Saber.
>>46239803
>the whole Nasuverse reasoning on who should be what class
>Grand Order in particular
CAN'T WAKE UP
>>46239781
Shittest of tastes possible. Please immediately end your life.
>>46239803
Why did Fem-Attila decide to burn the Roman Empire to ashes then? Aside from her appearance, I know next to nothing about how they've characterized her compared to history.
>>46239803
God, I hate these people so much
>>46239816
Touko's a hot bisexual witch. Aoko is a frigid virgin destroyer. You are the one who should rethink your life.
>>46239698
I imagine as far as the berserker class goes Black Beard would probably be a weaker Heracles, but with better range given pirates usually had 6+ guns on them at any given time and the Queen Anne's Revenge to bombard the fuck out of an Archer who thinks they're funny. Probably would get the same "Not completely insane" awareness that Heracles had as well.
Also, not surprised something that punched me in the autism came from GO.
>>46239787
Nice, gonna have to play with it sometime.
>>46239803
I know I should be angry, but I get to the
>brown tribal slut
part and I just can't be.
>>46239847
Don't worry, I'm angry enough for the two of us
It was such a disappointment that in Fate Zero, Berserker didn't ever take Excalibur from Saber and corrupt it. In fact I expected that to be what they were getting at with his power.
>>46239829
Touko a jealous bitch who is assmad that her sister has the 5th and will be more accomplished than her. Aoko is SUGOI SUGOI
>>46239634
>doesn't use a bow
We got another shit-talker.
>>46239938
>Death
>Not THE BOX
Also those are a sensible chuckle, got more or a source?
>>46239949
I have neither of those things, sorry.
>>46239949
/a/. They are the true experts of Type Moon. Also the raging shitstorm creators and endless wafuwar trenchmen of Type Moon.
>>46239943
>Anrimmitetu Buredo Wakkusu
>>46238614
It can be discussed on /a/, /jp/, /v/, or /vg/ as long as you don't use the wrong image to start a thread.
I'm serious, Fate threads that start with a screenshot of the VN regularly get moved from /a/ to /jp/ by mods, yet a Melty Blood thread on /a/ primarily discussing the game was ignored despite being 95% about the games.
The moral of the story is, if you absolutely MUST start a Fate or Tsukihime thread on /a/ with a pic from the VN, try to find a CG rip instead of using the actual screenshot. And pray.
>>46239986
Also 80% of the time the thread will devolve into Powerlevels or Waifuwars. It is inevitable. Even here we already have a waifuwar brewing between Toukufags and Aokofags, and that's without a single mention of Wormslut.
I've discussed Fate on /a/ for years, but these days its very hard to have a decent discussion without something going to shit.
>>46239999
>but these days its very hard to have a decent discussion without something going to shit.
It's more or less been that way since Fate/Zero aired. Your best bets for decent TM discussions are to either wait for something actually new to happen (which, between Anime-Japan and the looming release of a new chapter in Grand Order, might be soon), or to go to /fgog/ on /vg/ late at night and hope that the resident Jetfag isn't around and stirring up shit.
>>46239986
If I recall, anime-based games are allowed on /v/, /a/, and /jp/, but visual novels are meant for /jp/ while more mainstream ones are allowed on /a/.
>>46240051
It's a relatively recent thing. I first saw it happen around Christmas, and just saw it happen again the other day. When I started digging in the archives for other instances of it, I saw some SciAdv (those anime/VNs with the semicolon names like Steins;Gate) threads get relocated for similar reasons.
It's a dumb policy, especially for Type-Moon.
>>46239820
The FGO attila is an Alien of unknown origin, with an instinct to destroy all civilizations.
All hints point to her having a link with Mars and possibly a proto-Type Mars.
>>46239943
okay, never uses a bow when its relevant, and doesn't have it as an important move, considering he shoots swords without need of a bow
>>46240176
Fate/ archers are silly things. Robin Hood is an oddity in that he actually uses a bow, and even then his is this weird wrist-mounted Assassin's Creed nonsense.
>>46240252
Over the years there have been more and more Archers that use actual bows as their main method of attack. Atalanta, Chiron, Arash, and Arjuna come to mind.
Then again, there are also plenty of new Archers that DON'T use bows, like David or Tesla.
>>46240277
>Archer Tesla
I didn't know I wanted this
I figure Rider probably gets a similar treatment with some Riders rarely fighting primarily on their mounts, but I wonder if Lancers or Sabers run into a similar issue? Or if Assassins are used more like an "other" category for anyone that can't be BS'd into a Caster. It would explain why Hassan is always yammering on about being the only "True Assassin."
>>46240176
Did you even read the duel in F/HA?
Also his 幻想崩壞 uses requires his bow.
Archer's strength was with his bow.
>>46240384
Save it friend, it's all yours.
>>46240508
Its beautiful. Tesla blurring the lines between magic and science yet again.
>>46222028
The nasuverse is a neat setting that I'm fairly certain is impossible to actually tell a good story in.
>>46240384
Kojiro is still the best Assassin of the class. Jack is almost as good, but she fails in a couple areas. Stupid Only Hassan rule.
>>46240599
The rule only apply for the grail in Fuyuki .
>>46240599
>Kojiro is still the best Assassin of the class.
Really? Better than Li Shuwen and both the Assassins from Strange Fake?
>>46240639
>the only kid who became a hero because he was PURE SKILL
>the only kid who trained so hard with his sword he learned how to cut space and time
>the only
Sorry, man, but Kojiro is just plain dope.
No gods, no kings, only sword.
And a swallow. European swallow.
>>46222028
Its shit. Ive checked most of the things discussed here and those were ones of the worst.
>>46240599
Sasaki isn't actually all that great as an assassin. He can fight on even footing with knight classes in melee, but at just assassination he's not exceptional at all. Engaging servants in combat isn't even what an assassin is supposed to do in the first place, they're supposed to go after the masters.
>>46240662
actually Okita Sōji can do it too, so he ain't the only one.
>>46240599
I think I'm starting to notice a trend with Assassins. Most of em tend to be people that never technically existed.
Hassan: split personality so bad he's literally 100 dudes
Kojiro: Made up name for eight or so separate swordsman
Jack: Never caught, thus real identity unknown
Then there's obvious ones like Phantom of the Opera and Dr. Jeckel.
>>46240690
Phantom and Jekyll are both real people in the Nasuverse, though.
>>46240690
Hassan is the name that the leader of the Assassins's use, there's loads of them.
At least 4 different Hassan had appeared already.
and you have famous martial artist like Li Shuwen
>>46240662
Li Shuwen can warp space-time with his mastery of Chinese martial arts.
>>46240686
>Okita Soji
Literally a meme servant with Saber's sameface.
Also, the point is that Kojiro is PURE SKILL.
Literally everyone else has a phantasm based on supernatural things, or superweapons, or being more than human, or whatever.
Kojiro, on the other hand, is literally the kid who qualifies only because he trained so hard he became a legend. That's why he deserves respect.
How would /tg/ feel about a Nasuverse quest, which is basically not simply the Grail War but actually more something like EM2CF?
>>46240733
who participated in the 3rd grail war that involved Nazis and imperial Japan.
Okita Soji have no supernatural thing too, same with Li Shuwen, they are all pure skill.
Okita Soji can hit a place with 3 hit at the exact same time causing the space-time continuum to break up at the spot.
>>46239943
>>46239634
>>46240176
Actually the japanese concept of archery is different than just 'uses a bow'. There's this whole meditative concept where you align yourself with your goal. If you do it right and get all your focus into it, it supposedly means that you'll always hit the target. To be an amazing archer is to get rid of your identity and thoughts and everything to just become a machine whose purpose is 'hit the target with the arrow'.
In which case, Shirou is perfect for the archer class, no matter how many swords he's got. It's mentioned that he was in the archery club but stopped because he 'finished it', in that he's constantly so focused on one thing that whatever he's doing is 'perfect'.
Which is another way to say that he's completely demented, because his target is 'save people', so he's absolutely nothing except for 'save people'.
>>46222028
Nasuverse is a very simple setting to understand; powers are just meant to be fucking cool and no matter how powerful or all-destroying your power is, there is always someone who's power is basically "I ignore your power and anally rape you with mine".
The real trick to type moon is the philsosphies, ideologies and concepts that clash against each other. Like, the GARcher/Shirou fight is one of my favourite in fiction because it defends the idea of Don Quixote's Impossible Dream.
>>46222468
What are you talking about?
His non-Japanese heroes are way better than his Japanese ones.
Lancer is one of the best modern iterations of Cuchulainn I can think of. His Gilgamesh gets points for actually looking a little like how Gilgamesh is described in his Epic, rather than being based on a bunch of Assyrian carvings of muscular bearded men. The Lancelot/Black Knight thing was genuinely pretty good. Iskander was fun as a subversion of the popular idea that Alexander was a little girly fuccboi because he liked man ass.
And as much as /tg/ spergs over it, the whole 'king Arthur is a grill' thing is actually not a bad tweest at all. I doubt anyone would care about it if we weren't currently living in a period where 4chan is divided between soppy dicks and reactionary assholes who see tumbr everywhere.
>>46240690
Well as an Assassin it helps if people never discover your true identity.
>>46240067
This post has a whole lot of fanon mixed in.
She's not necessarily an 'alien' and she's related to the god Mars, not the planet Mars. She destroys what she deems as "bad civilization", and permits "good civilization". Rome was bad, Rome must be destroyed.
It's possible she is the apotheosis and end of human existence that Andersen described. A destroyer of civilization, born of civilization. Pulling Type-Mars into this is stretching it really, really far.
>>46240720
That's just cause Nasu takes the "Grain of Truth" ideology to its logical extreme. Granted it makes some great opportunities, like Lu Bu's transforming spear of +3 Go Fuck Yourself, but I'd like to say my assessment still applies to some level.
But then things like what >>46240726 said about Li Shuwen that reminds me that it probably is just an "other" category.
>>46240755
I'd be up for it, but I'm a scrub that only knows the Fate/ side of Nasuverse, and not very much of it at that
>>46240830
Well then you're in for a trek around stuff you might not know, like the Atlas Institute, Chaldea, Mystic Eyes, Dead Apostles, etc etc.
>>46239938
I can't help but sympathize with Touko more than Aoko.
She was basically groomed her whole life to inherit the 5th, constantly told that being the inheritor to the Aozaki magus line was the most important thing ever, revolved her life around it, and then her granddad out of nowhere decided to pass the family's crest and signature magic on to her completely uninitiated and untrained sister instead, with zero justification given. I'd be pretty pissed off by that.
Touko worked her ass off and was snubbed for it, Aoko literally did nothing and was rewarded.
>>46240690
Most mythological heroes never existed.
Karna and Arjuna definitely didn't. King Arthur didn't. Lancelot was literally fanfiction.
Grail War stuff isn't about historical characters, it's about legends.
>>46240842
As a DM who lives by the principal of "Its fun if players don't know the source material I'm blatantly copying off of", I'm ready.
>>46240867
Assassins tend to be more obvious about it, while people like Arthur can still be "well, maybe", which makes what I said about Kojiro kinda funny in comparison.
>>46240867
He's talking in-universe. And in-universe, they were real in Fate.
Whether they factually existed or not, human recognition brought them into existence retroactively. They have entire lifetimes.
>>46240867
>Alexander the Great existed.
>Gilles de Rais existed.
>Joan of Arc existed.
>Gilgamesh is debatable.
Yes, there are legends in there, but there are also some historical figures.
>>46240802
My only problems with Cuculhain is that he lacks the Riastrad. Plus his description is fucking hilarious in the Tains. He has rainbow eyes and shit. I really want to see it.
>>46241050
He's been summoned as Lancer, not as Berserker.
It'd be cool if Cuchulainn and Heracles could swap places for once.
>>46223662
Except we now have a Servant from WW1 in Grand Order, so...
Mata Hari, y'know. She's garbage, even in-universe, but she's /there/.
>>46240867
>King Arthur didn't.
Debatable.
>>46241133
/tg/ meme. Every time Simo Haya comes up /k/ gets assmad that he can't be a heroic spirit because he's famous for using a gun
>>46241133
She's actually pretty nifty, since the only ways to really counter her is either by having mental resistance or by being a teamkiller.
>>46241133
right, but she didn't use a gun. so she's technically allowable.
Simo Haya, by virtue of being famous for being really good with a gun, is not qualified because, in the words of nasu, the gun did all the work for him.
>>46241188
>>46241171
>tfw statted Hähyä for the quest
>tfw probably won't include him because another archer would fit better
>in the words of nasu, the gun did all the work for him.
>hiding your breath with the snow
>Literally using no scope
>going on dangerous solo missions
Yeah, no.
>>46241204
I never said the reasoning wasn't stupid as fuck.
while I'm here, does anyone have the This Router edit of >>46227170
?
>>46241204
He's a bitchnigga compared to someone like Pecos Bill, the man who lassoed a hurricane, yes.
That's the big problem that you fucktards don't seem to process. He's just some fuck with a gun. Yeah, he shot a lot of people, but anyone with a gun can shoot a lot of people.
It's not capital L Legendary.
>>46241230
You might want to recheck his story, for real.
You're dumbing it down to "he shot people", while it's more like: "With inferior equipment and preparation, he overcame an enemy superior in numbers using tactics he came up with by himself"
>>46241244
So did Leonidas. Except Leonidas was also descended from Hercules and didn't use a gun.
>>46241230
You could make the same argument for Jack the Ripper. Anyone with a knife can stab a bunch of whores and get away with it.
>>46241256
>So did Leonidas
>With inferior equipment and preparation
>Spartans
>inferior preparation
Might I also remind you there were no choke points in Finland?
With this I am not saying Leonidas isn't deserving of being a Servant. He is, indeed, one.
Why does every single one of these threads derail into a whole lot of bitching about a dead Finnish guy who has nothing at all to do with the franchise?
>>46241263
funny enough, thats exactly why Jack the Ripper became a HS. It could have been ANYONE. The fact he was never identified caused the legend to spin out of control.
>>46241286
see >>46241171
>>46241256
>Comparing a warrior king descended from Heracles to a random farmer that happened to be a good shot descended from a family of farmers.
>>46241291
So ultimately the only difference between Jack and Haya is era and a confirmed identity.
>>46241325
Based on genetic spread Simo is probably descended from Hercules, Charlemagne, Saint Louis, Siegfried and farmers.
Would that crazy major in WW2 be able to be a heroic spirit? The one that went into battle with a longbow and claymore.
>>46222028
I hate it for various reasons.
>>46241370
And all that hero blood is probably thinned out (barring maybe Siegfried) compared to the natural demigod steroids that Leonidus had.
Unless thickness doesn't count, in which case the question comes down to how many of them can actually contribute to an Archer class working in minimum viable conditions while needing to stealth and keep a secure perimeter single handedly.
>>46241375
Probably, cause
>No gun
Real question is if Rider Patton will be allowed, or if tank = gun with wheels
>>46240964
Those guys are still legends.
Stories are told about them and their deeds ring through the ages. You don't have to be fictional to be legendary.
>>46241244
I don't think you get it.
Yes, Simo killed a lot of people, and he did it well.
He was no an earth shattering legend, though. Generally in order to get into heroic spirit territory based on skill alone your skill has to be such that it actually breaks reality. Simo is simply not on that level.
He was a great soldier. He did not, however, move mountains.
>>46241546
then explain Mata Hari, Charles Henri-Sanson and Marie Antoinette.
>>46241546
>He was a great soldier
No he wasn't. He was literally a random dude with no military background or any formal training. That's what made him impressive since he was effective a random mook when the Russians showed up on his doorstep.
>>46241582
Greater legends, greater impact on history, etc.
Some of them have magical bullshit going on in the context of nasuverse. If Nasu altered Simo to have, I dunno, some pixie shit or whatever, he'd work.
>>46241582
All three of them have an element of mystery and rumor surrounding them that can be filled in by the world as magic crap.
Simo's story is pretty simple. He was a Fin, the Winter War happened, he shot tons of dudes.
>>46241656
>>46241582
How much is known about Haya works against him. Mata Hari and Marie Antoinette are surrounded by so much rumor and misinformation accepted as fact that Mystery is applied to their persona's post ex facto.
>>46241631
>>46241690
Y'know, when you put it that way, Simo would probably be horseshit statistically, but have a np that would cause a freak snow storm to force everyone to play by his rules.
>>46241731
That's cool and original. No one's ever done that type of thing before.
>>46241759
I can't tell if your reply is delicious or depressing
Hayhafags please go.
"Man who was good at gun" is not a legend.
It doesn't matter how many people he gunned.
>>46241816
That means Rider General Patton's still a go
>>46241899
I'd rather see the Red Baron, to be honest.
>>46241899
>>46241913
Why Not Both?
I mean fuck, every other rule has already been broken during a grail war, why not have someone accidentally summon 2 modern servants instead of 1 ancient one.
>>46240176
EMIYA is pretty beast with his bow as shown in Hollow Ataraxia, though. He could just snipe more than half of the 5th Fuyuki Grail War Servants without much issue. The only ones who could actually survive his surprise shots are Hercules (because god hand), Lancer (because protection against projectiles) and Gilgamesh (bullshit armor).
>>46241913
Planes are like flying tanks, and therefore cool. Red Baron also a go. Lets throw in Admiral Yi, as his turtle ships were proto sea tanks, and I can't think of anyone particularly famous as a submarine commander (aka underwater tanks)
>>46241950
Gil wasn't even a part of the 5th war. He just decided to start fucking shit up.
>>46239892
Lancelot can only corrupt extremely weak NPs and non-NPs. Everything above a certain level cannot be corrupted.
>>46241816
> "Man who was good at gun" is not a legend.
"Man who was good at sword" is not a legend either then?
>>46240802
>Iskander was fun as a subversion of the popular idea that Alexander was a little girly fuccboi because he liked man ass
It was actually revealed that he was indeed a girly fuccboi when he was younger, but then got buff after he set out for CONQUEST.
>>46241993
Sword requires more skill to git gud. But you wanna know what requires the most skill?TANKS
>>46241993
It's about tool-use and the ease of doing so. Firearms basically destroyed much of medieval fighting simply due to their ease of use and ease of production. You know the saying; "God created man, Sam Colt made them Equal". Can't be a hero when you're just equal to everyone else anon.
>>46241993
There is not a single hero in Fate who is "man who was good at sword", except maybe Lancelot, who is "man who was good at sword, spear, hammer, bow, donkey jawbone, tree branch, gun (somehow), F15 (somehow-er), and assorted knick-knacks".
>>46222028
Are you the same fag that makes these threads once a week
>>46241992
That's just not true though. Knight of Honor nearly claimed Excalibur when he caught it between his hands, but she ripped it away before he could assume direct control.
The only thing it can't take is Ea because that's got an "only usable by Gilgamesh" rule.
>>46242047
>>46242049
There is also the little fact that, Black Barrel aside, there are no magic guns, which makes it a little difficult for them function as an NP.
>>46242059
There's Kojiro.
But he was "man who was so good at sword he BROKE TIME."
And he's a fake servant anyway.
>>46242079
The thing with Kojiro is that he's an empty vessel of a Heroic Spirit created from the legends of Miyamoto Musashi's rival that was stuffed with the soul of a guy that somehow achieved the thing that Kojiro could do in legends.
The wraith itself wasn't actually a Heroic Spirit despite being a "man who was so good at sword he BROKE TIME".
>>46242072
But what about, check this out, a magic tank! A tank that can be summoned and dismissed on command and had an infinite, auto reloading supply of Anti-Fortress rounds.
>>46242059
>There is not a single hero in Fate who is "man who was good at sword"
Come back when Nasu makes Musashi Miyamoto a thing in F/GO.
>>46242049
> Can't be a hero when you're just equal to everyone else anon.
>implying all people are equally good with wielding firearms
And don't pull that shit about "a stray bullet can kill a man". So does a stray arrow or a stray sword.
>implying there are no people who are just naturally good at it
>>46242119
Miyamoto Musashi was far more than just a good swordsman, though.
