Pathfinder General - /pfg/
120% real illusory gains edition
Unified /pfg/ link repository: http://pastebin.com/XehJXVjp
Old Thread: >>46196562
Most useful alchemical items? Most of them are garbage but there are a few gems like blood-boiling pills and tanglefoot bags.
>>46205970
>>46205966
Command word takes an action to activate, use-activated activates whenever you do the relevant predetermined thing with the item. Action economy.
>>46205895
>not using this as the backstory for the prince ending up as a Chosen One paladin
What is that cloaked wolf inquisitor archetype from ultimate intrigue?
>>46206044
Why the prince? Why not play the Chosen One Paladin doing the bedding?
Fetishes aside, this is actually a fascinating character concept; the virtuous prostitute who fights for the innocence of the young and vulnerable sounds like a fun person to play.
Is there anything else to figure out about this character? Traits or weapon focuses? Seems like a glaive-wielder, to me.
>>46206126
>Seems like a glaive-wielder, to me
Some kind of polearm, for sure. One way or another they need to know their way around something long and hard, whether they're male or female. In all seriousness though, this seems cool but I don't think I could play it at my table without getting some funny looks. We make too many sex jokes for anyone to treat it seriously. A shame, but then again I've got a half-dozen other character concepts I already wanted to play anyway, so it's not like I've got nothing else I can use.
>>46205970
>100% real illusions
Is it still possible in pf?
>>46206015
Most of them with a casting of Full Pouch.
>>46206309
Moreso than ever, since Blood of Shadows gave "illusions are 2% more real per level, max 100%" to fetchling arcanists as a favored class bonus.
Shadow mystery oracles get 1% per level as a revelation, too, and theirs doesn't have a cap, so it'll stack with Solid Shadows for 120% illusory power.
How would you bring a T1 or T2 class to T3 using only official Paizo archetypes? Is it even possible?
>>46206410
Even archetypes that severely weaken a class can't do enough work to things like the Wizard. Druid and Cleric could probably be severely brought-down with stacking certain archetypes.
>>46206400
Illusions more real than reality itself.
Magic is funny.
>>46206400
That adds some weird moral implications to using Shadow Conjuration to summon a creature that is more real than a real creature but still ceases to exist forever minutes, or perhaps seconds later.
>>46206126
But if you go Chosen One, you can't go Sacred Servant get 1/week planar ally threesomes.
>>46206410
Wizard: Spellslinger, Scrollmaster
I don't know if it's possible for an Arcanist, honestly. None of the archetypes completely replace exploits which is what you'd need to make it T3.
>>46206514
You forgot siege mage.
>>46206487
Won't be having celestial threesomes anyway since the sex itself isn't the point of the character.
>>46206487
>"Cecila, we really HAVE to stop meeting like this..."
>>46206514
For an Arcanist, there's Unlettered Arcanist which replaces sorc/wizard spellist with the witch one, and Elemental Savant which forces exploits for blasting.
I'm thinking about playing a Synthesist for our next campaign but me and my friend both agree that its a bit strong for the group we're in and while the GM will probably allow it, It would be sporting of me to take a penalty of some sort to even out the power of the class.
I've considered the lesser races but playing a monstrous race will completely lock me out of the political aspect of our game, not to mention I'm not into playing races like them. Halflings and Gnomes were also suggested (a race he knows I dislike playing as) so now I'm thinking of a fair compromise.
I take the young template and and take the rebuild rules for a human or half elf PC which imposes a severe penalty to my Con score, and diminishes my ability to play the political end of the game but not completely removing it.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/simple-template-young-cr-1
>>46206015
There are a few potent alchemical weapons like ghast retch flask (nauseated for 1 round if you fail an easy save but sickened for 3 rounds no matter what, people within 5 are sickened for 1 round no matter what), tangleburn bags (basically a tanglefoot bag + alchemical fire, not many better ways to distract someone like lighting them on fire and gluing them to the floor at the same time), and fungal stun vials (stuns or confuses people in a 30 foot radius if they fail a DC 20 will save).
The real fun business is in taking a hybridization funnel and using it to combine any two splash weapons into one if you pass a DC 25 Craft: Alchemy check. Even at high levels, a "tangleburn retch flask" will give someone a bad time.
>>46206477
Conjuration summoning doesnt actually create a fully sapient creature, it more or less creates a rift in reality shaped like said creature without completely being alive.
>>46206715
What sort of theme do you actually want to use Synthesist for?
>>46206772
JJ can claim that all he wants, but he's explicitly wrong per the core rules.
>Summoning: a summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can't be summoned again.
>a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from
>>46206772
Which makes it worse! You're creating a being that can think and act, which will be wiped away, irrevocably (since it's not 'real' and doesn't have a soul to go to the afterlife).
JJ's opinion that this makes it perfectly fine morally is hilarious, since this ruling makes the question a lot more complex and significantly more horrifying.
>>46206833
What if the shadow version is a philosophical zombie, though? Then it'd be perfectly fine.
>>46206606
Celestial threesomes would be perfectly fitting if you can use them to keep impressionable wizards from calling up sexy demons, though.
>>46206865
The thing is, it's not. Conjured creatures aren't puppets or actually controlled; they act on their own and you can give them orders.
Is Extraplanar a valid subtype for an Outsider Bane weapon?
Asking again:
Anyone have the leaked pages from Ultimate Intrigue, particularly the archetypes?
>>46206884
>they act on their own and you can give them orders
That doesn't discount a philosophical zombie, though. The whole point of philosophical zombies is that they act exactly like a sentient creature would.
>>46206886
I . . . um . . . yes? It certainly looks that way RAW.
>>46206886
Nah, you go off the same list the ranger has available for favored enemy picks. Alignments, elements, or native, in other words.
>>46206939
Where does it say that?
Same question goes for Humanoids, since there's a lot of humanoid subtypes.
>>46206892
Here's the link to the thread: http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/46042423/
>>46206410
The "stop playing at level 10" archetype available to all characters.
Seriously, though? Use the Eldritch Scoundrel archetype for Wizards and Sorcerers. Fuck it, just make all of the full casters Bard casters and force people to play Unchained Summoners.
>>46206991
>Eldritch Scoundrel
Or Occultist. It's the psychic spell list, but it's a better "mystic wizard" vibe than the actual Wizard class is, since you're toting around bells and crystals and stuff for your magic.
>>46206828
>It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can't be summoned again.
That would also make JJs idea pointless since if every summoning is a brand new creature, why is there a cooling down period to wait to summon it again and where does it 'reform' if it never existed before the spell was cast?
What would be the most inconvenient character by race and class?
Kobold Barbarian?
>>46207045
Kobold chained rogue
>>46206801
The original concept was a minor aristocrat, possibly Chelaxian if I want to be cliche about it or Andoran if not. His cover story is that he moved to a developing region in hopes of making it big via entrepreneurship in this land of opportunity. This is partially true but the true reason is he's also looking for a backwater place where he has reduced risk being discovered that he's actually host to a horrible eldritch abomination from beyond the black tapestry.
The concept still works for a child character except that he's the heir of one (possibly orphaned?), and will instead rely on subtle manipulations instead of directly interacting with whatever local government where is in that area.
A few alterations on the narrative end of things can also be easily made, instead of getting into a marriage of convenience maybe he'll get himself adopted by actual nobility and play his angle from there. Maybe some unfortunate accident will happen to his adoptive parents that leads into him becoming the head of the household, or maybe he can pull the strings from behind the curtain. I still havent finalized his alignment yet so maybe I'll start TN and see how it plays out.
As for the eidolon itself, I'm thinking either star spawn if I go biped, dark young if quad, and shoggoth if I go serpentine.
>>46207058
No, I think it would have to be something Strength based
>>46207045
I'd say Kobold Unchained Barbarian.
>>46207045
Barbarian is actually probably the best straight-martial class for a kobold. It's the only one that will help them mitigate their STR and CON penalties. You'd probably want a Kobold Commoner, or a Kobold Fighter in ignoring NPC classes.
>>46207160
but fighters are actually good with weapon master's handbook
>>46207160
>>46207045
>>46207058
Kobold Kineticist.
>>46207173
This is a total lie, they got a minor buff and nothing particularly unique or powerful in it.
>>46207207
they got enough to make them get into t4 with more archetypes.
>>46207058
>>46207153
>>46207160
>>46207189
You know, we don't have to stick with Kobold for the worst build everunless Kobold truly is the worst ever in terms of race.
>>46207236
Have you seen Kobold stats?
>>46207045
Kobold kineticist with Con 5.
>>46207236
>unless Kobold truly is the worst ever in terms of race
Yeah. Yeah, they are.
>>46207285
Don't forget to make him venerable.
>>46207126
Check out Spiritualist. It's basically Summoner Lite, with 6/9 casting and a Synthesist-lite mode you can switch on and off.
>>46207160
They dont make bad gunslingers or swashbucklers either, at least as far as slingers and swashers go.
>>46206126
Deific Obedience feat and the Evangelist class.
>>46207268
Point taken. Thought there were worse ones but I'm not finding any as bad of a modifier.
>>46207502
Worst part is when you compare them to goblins. Gonlins at least have an overall +0, and they get a +4 to dex. Kobolds are the only ones with an overall NEGATIVE ability score adjustment, as far as I recall.
Have you ever seen Marvelous Pigments used in a game? What were they used for?
>>46207469
Nah, just Deific Obedience.
For Lymnieris, it includes a 1/day permanent duration Greater Polymorph on a willing creature once you hit level 16.
>>46207606
This depresses me for some reason.
>>46205758
>Dreamscarred Online
Someone running off with my DSP MMO World idea?
>>46207697
The bad news: You're stuck in an MMO
The good news: See above
The better news: It's PoW
>>46207697
I saw someone actually run that game a while back. Seems to be a semi-popular idea.
>>46207791
The worst news: an eldritch force from outside the universe is breaking through the borders of reality, and hopes to destroy everything.It's Paizo.
How would a nice guy, social person, helpful character, but secretly hates people in general and trust nobody would work?
How does Protection from [x, let's say Evil] interact with outsiders bound with Planar Binding?
Protection from Evil reads:
"[T]he spell prevents bodily contact by evil summoned creatures. This causes the natural weapon attacks of such creatures to fail and the creatures to recoil if such attacks require touching the warded creature."
Do bound outsiders count as summoned creatures?
>>46206126
If I were to do somethig with this, I'd have her armor not be obviously female at all (eg no boobplate), to play up the contrast for when she dresses up for high society.
The Extremely Fashionable trait would be a must, of course.
>>46207791
I choose to play a wizard.
>>46207876
Calling is not summoning.
>>46207876
Bound outsiders aren't technically summoned. They're called. They can bypass Protection from [Alignment]'s bodily protection clause.
>>46207872
Like everyone on 4chan.
>>46207923
>>46207924
Alright, thanks!
Planning to do some Binding shenanigans when (if) I reach next level, and am looking for ways not to get slaughtered by whatever I'll Call.
>>46207944
This. But what would the inverse be like?
"You're all a bunch of faggots. If I was struck down right now, I wouldn't miss any of you."
Later, in his tent by himself...
"Dear diary, these guys are just the gosh darndest nicest people I've met!"
>>46207966
That's literally the entire point of the alternate mode of the Magic Circle spells.
>>46208031
>"B-Baka! I-It's not like I wanted to destroy evil with you guys, hmph!"
>>46207898
Dammit, I had art that would be perfect for this but I seem to have deleted it.It was a redheaded woman in plate armor taking off her helmet, it wasn't the art where the helmet had horns, it was a fairly "realistic" suit of plate.
>>46208031
That's called a tsundere, Anon.
>>46208090
>>46208114
>I forgot tsundere was a thing
>>46208062
One of my plans is to Call a demon, murder it and raise it as a guard ; I expect the Magic circle might be broken as I try to slay the fiend.
Have there been anymore UI leaks? Kinda interested in the Rogue and Inquisitor archetypes.
Also what about Inner Sea Faiths?
>>46208146
Put the magic circle in front of a loaded ballista.
>>46207966
Go and carefully read these pages.
When you bind an outsider you are taking a very very very dangerous step that will get you killed if you do not follow every step carefully.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Conjuration
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/planar-binding
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/variant-magic-rules/binding-outsiders
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/magic-circle-against-evil
>>46208146
...why the hell would you go to that much effort for an undead demon that will lose most if not all of its abilities?
>>46208147
There have been a bunch.
Most of it has been disappointing.
We still haven't got everything yet, though.
>>46208146
As soon as you break that circle you are dead unless it's a much weaker demon.
>>46208155
I like your style.
>>46208159
Thanks!
>>46208167
It's mostly for shock value, I want any possible intruder to think "oh shit, we're definitely messing with the wrong guy here!"
>>46208199
Demons summoned through Lesser or medium Planar Binding don't look _that_ strong, actually. A party of lv11 adventurers should have little issue taking one down, but I might have to face one alone, so I'm taking every precaution I can.
>>46208244
The issue is that circle is the only thing keeping it from travelling back to it's home plane. If that happens expect it to return with some very angry friends. If anything disrupts the circle as much as a fucking cunt hair it's ruined.
>>46208155
Ah, yes, then you can do a pitiful amount of damage instead of making it save versus losing.
>>46208286
I thought of that, and so far my best plan of action is to manage an Anchor spell through the demon's SR. Hopefully it won't come back very angrily -- after all, if demons could travel to the Material plane on a whim, why wouldn't they do so constantly?>inb4 they totally do and I'm just lore-deficient
What was the general reaction to the Vigilante? I looked over it with my DM and another players, we all were thinking a lot of the vigilante talents were pretty powerful, granting multiple feats or a feat+some other benefit when you get the feat normally, or abilities that were otherwise difficult to get (in particular Mad Rush and that one I forget the name of that lets you hide in plain sight like a Shadowdancer as an Ex ability), and it got what was situationally Sneak Attack+ (but would usually be Sneak Attack- during a fight). It's obviously not a high tier class, unless you take an archetype for casting (we didn't take the time to do more than just skim the archetypes), but it still seems like it can be pretty powerful in the non-tier based sense of the word.
>>46208387
Tier 4, Tier 3 for the spellcasting archetypes.
"Better than feats" doesn't say much when most feats in PF are superbly underwhelming in the first place.
>>46208387
I generally feel most vigilante talents are pretty bad. I mostly looked at the social ones, which has some neat things and a lot of awful things.
Which parts of the combat talents stood out to you? All the ones I looked at seemed to come on kind of late. I also remember the improvised object talent being worse than Catch Off-Guard in 80% of cases.
>>46207697
I've had this idea for a while, was originally based on SAO then I watched KonoSuba, Overlord, and Log Horizon in the course of 3 days for more inspiration and turned out my idea was better suited with Log Horizon in mind with the different schtick of it actually being ported to a fantasy world (KonoSuba/Overlord)
>Freshman year starts at college
>have to live on campus
>make about four friends who also have interest in DnD
>everyone thinks it's a good idea to start a campaign and play once a week
>suggest that since we have two years ahead of us to do a slow campaign, and since our conversations have shown that we prefer The Witcher's kind of environment over high-glossy cheese to do a low fantasy campaign
>everyone agrees to that as well
>basically our campaigns have been way more tactical in our approach of scenarios, die rolls have become gut-wrenching, and escaping death by running leaves us in a cold sweat in the real world
>do this for a few months
>caster-class player starts getting pissy about not being able to light EVERYTHING on fire
>demands we take rests whenever a fight ends if he casts a spell so he can participate in the next fight
>try to reason with him about how we can't start a fire in a subterranean cave or set up camp on frozen peaks in sub-zero weather
>this week tells everyone he won't be playing with us anymore because we're "out to get him"
This isn't the first time that I've had a caster-player get angry and accuse the DM if setting up scenarios specifically to spite him. Are all caster-players under the impression that the game revolves around only them?
>>46208387
It's not too badexcept the Brute, which is hilariously awful. Could be fun in the right kind of campaign, but there's no real reason to take it over similarly-powered classes unless you want features specifically intended for costumed heroes,
>>46208570
There are bad players in any class.
Don't blame a whole subgroup of the playerbase for one dick's mistakes.
>>46208548
Ah, mine's definitely more Overlord flavored - basic idea is that the world was designed as a sort of 'living Dungeon Master' running a fantasy game for PCs. When players stopped showing up, the AI was programmed to keep running adventures, so it's just started taking the world's NPCs and giving them AI so that they can become adventurers instead.
>>46208570
No, though it is possible that man-children looking for a power fantasy would be more likely attracted to caster classes in general.
>>46208570
Only the shitty ones. The others learn to manage their resources and share the limelight.
>>46208570
Of course they are.
On the other hand, Pathfinder is absolute garbage for a low magic game.
>>46208570
Probably something to do with >>46208610
>>46208570
Welcome to caster privilege.
>>46208642
#notallcasters
#allclassesmatter
>>46208629
He did say low fantasy, not low magic. Low fantasy just means it's based in the real world with alterations.
>>46208387
Prematurely:
Vigilante (Stalker) is Tier 4
Vigilante (Avenger) is Tier 4
Vigilante (Brute) is probably lower end of Tier 4
Vigilante (Magical Child) is low Tier 3 to mid Tier 3
Vigilante (Cabalist) is low Tier 3 to mid Tier 3
Vigilante (Zealot) is low Tier 3 to mid Tier 3
Vigilante (Warlock) is low Tier 3 to mid Tier 3
Vigilante (Mounted Fury) is Tier 4
Vigilante (Psychometrist) is mid Tier 4 to high Tier 4
Vigilante (Wildsoul) is Tier 4
Vigilante (Gunmaster) is low Tier 4, maybe Tier 5
Anyone have the picture of the Skinshaper druid archetype?
What is the worst race you can see on another players sheet before the first session?Hardmode: No kender
>>46208694
#exceptfighters
>>46208432
True, but to some extent, don't we need to evaluate new content by the standard of what content already exists? I mean, I'm all for the idea that the Fighter shouldn't be the standard martial classes are measured against, but it still seems like a Vigilante can grab a lot of really useful abilities that you otherwise have to spend a lot more build currency to get- especially if you want to get a lot of those abilities! In particular, the fellow player I mentioned became increasinly booty blasted by the class as we read because it gets easy access to a lot of abilities that his character (a Shadowdancer) had to devote tons of build currency and character wealth to getting.
>>46208517
I'd have to find those pages that were posted several generals ago to look up the specific ones, because I didn't save the images. The two in particular I mentioned earlier (Mad Rush and the thing that's basically the Shadowdancer's Hide in Plain Sight) both were available around level 10 IIRC but also came with no prerequisites (other than choosing the right Vigilante specialization). Some of them would grant you whole series of feats (I know there was at least one that gave you all the Blind-Fight feats as you level) and others would give you one feat earlier than you could normally get it and then an extra bonus if you take the feat normally (IIRC one gave Weapon Finesse and then later DEX-to-damage). Again, the only prereqs these had were a minimum Vigilante level, meaning you get them for minimal build currency investment. Several of them could have easily been split into multiple talents. This is on top of the social talents as well, which as you said have a fair amount of nice things.
A lot of it also stretches what's believable for Ex abilities, like the thing that lets you swap personas/outfits in a move action, but I'm less bothered by that than my fellows were.
>>46208727
Unicorn pony.
>>46208727
Gnome.
>>46208727
Ken--
Tiefling.
>>46208727
Gully dwarf or tinker gnome. Seriously, the fuck were the Dragonlance people thinking?
>>46208742
Gnome Sorcerers can be pretty good.
>>46208737
>True, but to some extent, don't we need to evaluate new content by the standard of what content already exists?
Not if the existing content is worse than other stuff in the same ruleset.
You need to look at the forest, not the trees.
>>46208727Kitsune.
>>46208763
Gnome players can't.
>>46208727
Followup question: What is the worst class you can see on another players sheet before the first session?Hardmode: No Bard
>>46208742
>shitting on gnomes
Found the dwarfcuck.
>>46208740
>mfw Ponyfinder
Do people actually use that?
>>46208570
That dude probably didn't understand how to play a caster really. If he wanted to light shit on fire he was already fucking up. A smart caster player will be the glue holding a group together with one or two well placed spells that make everyone else think they did everything by themselves and they are the hero. A caster should not seek glory.
>>46208799
Kineticist.
Even a plain Fighter can at least do lots of damage.
>>46208727
Aasimar/Tiefling whose alignment is opposite their heritage.
>Hey kids, it's time for the Edgy Rebel Angel Boy show, with special guest star, Angsty Redemption-Obsessed Devil Girl!
>>46208799
Chained rogue, Vivisectionnist alchemist.
Hey anons, I had a quick rules question. So I'm going to be part of a fairly overpowered game where gestalt builds are allowed. After looking around through some classes I got myself wondering if I could combo the enhancement bonus from Ancestral Warrior Skald and Bladebound Magus. Is this correct?
>>46208838
But paladin tieflings are the best.
>>46208799
When I went on vacation I appointed someone to take over for me and left him notes on good house rules. I came back and discovered two had gained the "prestige" class of Dead Men. They said they can shoot blood or something despite not being DEAD (as I had presumed it was some sort of Undead heredity), and it was cringy and disturbing to witness, even for a DnD game.
>>46208855
Generally speaking:
If it "applies" an enhancement bonus, it overlaps.
If it "increases" an enhancement bonus, it stacks.
>>46208839
>Vivisectionist alchemist
u fuqin w8 mot that's easily alchemist's best archetype
I think you meant this
>>46208805
Even if you don't like the show, there's actually some legitimately good stuff in there.
But yeah, I love the show and legitimately use that book for some games.
inb4 cancer deviant purge yourself etc
>>46208868
I love Paladin Tieflings. It's just rough since your first feat has to be Fey Foundling.
The result though is an extremely difficult to kill Paladin when you combine the FCB with Fey Foundling.
>>46208799
Rogue, probably. In my admittedly limited experience, rogues are the most likely to be played badly.
>>46208891
It may be the strongest, but it's also very edgy, and the "all natural attacks, all sneak attacks" one-trick pony is overwhelming at low levels and instantly becomes underwhelming when enemies get DR / invulnerability to sneak attacks with nothing in between.
>>46208805
Yes.
I'm GMing for the first time outside of an adventure path, what kind of adventures do a party of 3rd level characters have?
>>46208882
That's actually a really good piece of information, and I'll keep that in mind. However, I re-read the rules looking for those keywords and I wasn't able to find them in reference to the enhancement bonus.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo---magus-archetypes/bladebound
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/skald/archetypes/ascension-games-llc/ancestral-warrior
>>46208968
>yfw you see a low str, low wis chained rogue join the party
>>46209012
Small time stuff in my experience. Level 3 PCs aren't going to be saving the world from anything.
>>46208876
>Anime classes
remove
>>46208737
>one gave Weapon Finesse and then later DEX-to-damage
Huh, I really don't remember anything like that. The closest I saw was 'if you use Dex to hit and Str to damage, you get half your level as bonus damage."
Which isn't awful, I guess, but still.
>>46208727
Followup question 2: What is the worst alignment you can see on another players sheet before the first session?Hardmode: No CEExtrememode: No CN
>>46209077
True Neutral, usually because they don't actually know what it means or don't have a well enough developed character to really decide
>>46209016
Ancestral Warrior grants properties, not an enhancement bonus.
>>46208825
>tfw maybe playing as a DSP archetype kineticist soon
Writing 'kineticist' on my character sheet was a really weird feeling.
>>46209077
LE being played as CE.
>>46209068
Well, I'm also trying to recall something I saw almost a week ago now, so it's possible that I'M the one who is remembering it wrong.
>>46208740
>>46208805
>mfw a new player wanted to play a pony
>mfw it only got vetoed because we were partway through a paizo APand the GM didn't want to do the work to make them fit
>mfw they switch to Dhampir because it's "the closest thing to a playable vampire"
>>46208727
Merfolk
>>46208799
Samurai
>>46209077
Any chaotic
Any evil
Any lawful
These are all shit
>>46208607
Interesting, I only recently included psionic 'cos of watching Log Horizon and only PoW classes were gonna hinder my encounter building.
>>46209113
>magic equines are just too exotic to fit into the setting
>but half-vampires, half-demons, robots, and giant talking birds are perfectly fine
>>46208799
>hardmode: no bard
That's an easy hardmode to clear, bard is one of the best classes in Pathfinder
>>46208101
>>46209201
>>46209175
But letting them play a magic equine will make things awkward when you're trying to make sure all the PCs have husbandos and waifus later on down the line!
>>46209000
Getting the Pantheon book sometime in the future, currently my house has the setting book and the tribes book.
>>46208953
>I love Paladin Tieflings. It's just rough since your first feat has to be Fey Foundling.
Why? It doesn't look like that big of a deal to me. And how is it tiefling-specific?
>>46209227
This one is more barbarian than paladin, but whatevs.
>>46209159
My favorite part of justifying it as 'an MMO' is that I can use playtest docs and homebrew and readjust them on the fly.
"Oh man, the DM issued a new patch again, have you seen the buffs to Akasha?"
>>46209120
I want to play a merfolk sometime.
But I'd only do it to choose a class that can offset its poor movement modes.
>>46208968
>Rogue, probably. In my admittedly limited experience, rogues are the most likely to be played badly.
Fighter tyopes can be pretty bad too, but rogues can just be an absolute disaster when they're thrown out on the front line because of MUH SNEAK ATTACK instead of actually doing roguey things. Sneak attack is supposed to be a side feature to help you out when your skills aren't quite enough, and that's all.
>>46209278
Cavalier
>>46209278
>I want to play a merfolk sometime.
>But I'd only do it to choose a class that can offset its poor movement modes.
Any class will work as long as you can put a bathtub on a chariot and have enough space to move around.
>>46209278
Merfolk Harbinger.
I've been wanting to play a Xeph. I'm not sure why the iconic Soulknife race got +Cha instead of +Wis, to be honest, but they'd still make solid Zealots or Warlords at least.
>>46209278
Synthesist summoner.
Turn into a merfolk-drider.
>>46209304
>Sneak attack is supposed to be a side feature to help you out when your skills aren't quite enough, and that's all.
What the hell.
What on earth is a rogue supposed to do in battle then, roll stealth and intimidate the whole time while all their allies beat up the enemies?
>>46209241
Tiefling FCB is +1 to LoH heal
Fey Foundling is +2 per die roll.
So a level 4 Tiefling Paladin can LoH himself for 2d6+8
The result is a Paladin who can easily LoH himself and stay in the fight considerably longer than any other option.
>>46209278
I suppose the alt trait to get Fins To Feet as an SLA doesnt appeal, eh?
>>46209175
Tfw Practiced Horn Magic makes a unicorn wizard just as good at hitting enemies in melee as a fighter.
Literally just make a 20 post racial Int unicorn wizard and take Practiced Horn Magic and your one handed weapons are straight up murderous.
>>46209374
The rogue is supposed to let the wizard handle everything, duh.
Put those 8 skill points per level into Perform so you can be a cheerleader.
>>46209201
I vaguely remember this pic from a thread about Harlot Sweets.
Daily reminder to report all substance abuse to your local authorities.
>>46209374
A successful rogue does not need to engage in battle to accomplish his objectives.
If you are stuck in battle, then yes, sneak attack is nice. But being there means that you have, in some sense, failed - because your party has been detected and the alarm has been raised, and your work will only be more difficult now.
>>46209175
>implying the problem is "it doesn't fit into the setting!"
>implying the real problem isn't "stop inserting this shit into everything you massive faggot"
It wouldn't have been a dealbreaker, but I'd like to have SOMETHING I do not constantly have reminders of that fandom's existence.
>>46208985
>edgy
Ah, I see, this must be coming from personal experience. Understandable, but still wrong.
>>46209374
Attempt to Full Attack with TWF using a club and a dagger, BAB 15 and 12 strength
>>46209096
They attempt to justify being good at times and evil at others instead of actually trying to be in between.
>>46209374
From the outset of the class' creation, the thief/rogue class wasn't supposed to be a Fighter, that's the Fighter's job
Thief/rogue is supposed to run around in the shadows/background doing dank dick ass thief stuff like climb up to the top of the guard tower and shut the porticullis on the enemy to block their escape, or sneak the explosive powder underneath the BBEG's throne room and set it off, occasionally dispatching a 1 HD guard here and there when the need arises
It just so happens that this isn't a style of play that people have gravitated to, especially since 3e - where people expect all challenges to be defeated in straight up combat with enemies of an equal CR
>>46209412
And what does that rogue do when an almost-mandatory combat occurs because all the actual combat classes want the chance to contribute sometime?
Pathfinder is a combat-focused game: being good in combat is the baseline entry requirement to being a playable class so your party doesn't have to carry you through every battle.
There's nothing wrong with intrigue campaigns, but PF is not the system for it.
>>46209412
>If you get into battle (a segment of the game several classes are designed for) you have failed
>If you are playing a Rogue, you should be preventing other players from doing their job, or you're not doing yours
>>46209434
Their entire shtick is "I like to dissect people".
I believe the archetype was banned from PFS because it was too edgy.
>>46209498
Exhibit A: Ultimate Intrigue
>>46209509
>I believe the archetype was banned from PFS because it was too edgy.
oooooorrr because it made the Rogue obsolete.
>>46209374
>mfw I had to crush a fresh newbie rogue's dreams recently when I told them they can't really Stealth around in combat and it barely yields real benefit when it's possible
>>46209374
I mean, if you're playing unchained rogue, you can really just go 1.5x-Dex-two-hander and forget about sneak attack. You just happen to get bonus damage whenever you're doing your main job of applying debuffs and smacking shit with an estoc.
>>46209581
Barring flagrant abuse, the sole purpose of the sneak skill in 3e combat is to get a single extra standard action over your enemies
>>46209535
Ultimate intrigue was an attempt to write classes for something that pathfinder isn't.
The vigilante is useless in a standard campaign and any caster in an intrigue campaign would have the utility spell list to solve all the problems without rolls.
Again, an intrigue campaign isn't a bad thing in itself, but Ult Intrigue jars so heavily with all the rest of the content PF has put out that it's useless in normal games.
>>46209578
That's not what I heard, but you may be right.
However, why hasn't Paizo banned all caster classes since they make most other classse obsolete?
>>46206828
You silly billy! Things that go against JJ's personal wishes need to be retco--ERRATA'd out so that they fall more in-line with what should be morally (CG) acceptable.
>>46209101
I tried that arche, but it felt a little hamstrung. The power of constructs is their adaptability, thanks to customization. Being locked into one set that you pick in the morning robs it of that. A Metacreative Psion gets MORE support AND more flexibility for their constructs, so why would I want to do this instead? I get that it's a JoJo thing, but it Feels Bad, Man.
>>46209493
It's not that it's not a style people don't gravitate to.
It's that IT SUCKS AT IT.
In 2e the thief wasn't all that great either, but people played it. The thief was good at handling dungeons, skulking, and otherwise doing all of that utility shit for the rest of the party.
Come 3e onwards however, the "Rogue" only has slightly more skills than others, must sink a majority of said skills into what used to be class abilities (thieving skills), and is no longer better at dealing with traps, locks, spying and other jobs than others in the party, because others in the party have more spells than they know what to do with and can thus steal the spotlight half the time.
So we're left with this non-multiplier "sneak attack" that many things are outright immune to, and a class that developers pretend is okay where it is "because lol high DPS like the rogues in MMOs thats why because see there the same name and they both have stealth".
>>46209535
That's not even out yet, you don't know most of the stuff in that book INCLUDING the new Rogue archetypes and abilities. Plus that's what, 5 years after the Rogue in PF and 20-ish after the thief even existed? That's not a book that was intended when the classes were created.
>>46209631
No, I was agreeing with you. Ultimate Intrigue is an example of trying and failing to fit that into Pathfinder.
>>46209498
Intrigue is fine in Pathfinder. Having characters lack at the main course of the system just to support their intrigue proficiency, THAT's fucking dogshit. And perfectly avoidable and reparable (not that Paizo ever will).
>>46209632
Because Paizo loves casters, which is exactly why they're so much better than martials.
>>46209509
>"I like to dissect people"
Or its "Biologist who uses knowledge of anatomy to help him fight"
And I don't know about you, bit most Biologists I know are the opposite of edgy.
Also, PFS banned it the same reason why they banned Synth Summoner : it made one of their core classes pointless (this time Rogue instead of Fighter
>>46209498
>>46209505
If you want an all-combat game, play fighters and barbarians instead of rogues and inquisitors and investigators. If you want an intrigue game, play sneaky skill classes instead of brutes. No matter what you do, a party that tries to cover every single base is going to be weak at any specific thing and somebody's going to be sitting there twiddling their thumbs because their class is the wrong tool for the job.
>>46209652
Like I said, especially since 3e, for a number of reasons:
>Everyone got to step on rogue's toes by having the same skill abilities
>Casters get to step on the rogue's toes by instead of sacrificing their 1/day spell to do rogue things, sacrifice 1 of their 10/day spells to do it
>Emphasis on CR and fighting enemies in combat fairly
>Emphasis on defeating monsters to gain exp instead of getting treasure to gain exp
>Decreased emphasis on traps absolutely wrecking everyone's shit
etc
>>46209180
How? They just seem like a sub par everything else with knowledge checks.
>>46209632
Most caster classes don't make the class obviously obsolete by beating them at their own game. An Alchemist does more damage than a Rogue against touch AC. casts 6th level spells, and has a unique buff ability. A Vivisectionist does more damage than a Rogue THROUGH SNEAK ATTACK. casts 6th level spells, and has a unique buff ability.
It's like the Synthesist, it's weaker or equal to a normal Summoner but obviously better than a Fighter, Barbarian, Rogue, or Monk because it beats them at their own game and still has 6th level casting
>>46209758
>Bards
>Subpar
lmao
>>46209077
NG is the most likely to become an unjustified murderhobo. "Justified" being a TN or CN character.
>>46209578
Don't Investigator, Ninja, Slayer, and Unchained Rogue already do that?
>>46209825
>Unchained Rogue
Yes, that's the point
>Investigator
He's not better at SNEAK ATTACK
>Slayer
He's not better at SNEAK ATTACK
>Ninja
It's just a rogue archetype
I want to fake my character and her cohort being a summoner and eidolon: how do I accomplish this?
I know I can arcane mark a glowing symbol on our foreheads, but it says that it fades over time, and I presume anyone with detect magic could just identify the spell effect in question. Is there a non-magical, permanent means of getting such a symbol applied?
>>46209885
>non-magical
No.
>>46209644
I gave forrest a lot of feedback when I was building it.
More changes to come - flexibility with the construct during the day is likely one of them.
Also I ran the numbers and it does respectable damage - enough to two-round an appropriate CR enemy like any PoW martial, and at low levels it's comparable to base kineticist but then starts to really pull ahead.
I think it'll be servicable but yeah, I still wonder whether it has a niche that other classes like the Ecto Artist Aegis, the Summoner, etc can't fill.
Regarding Silver Crane's Diamond Wings of the Imperial Crane:
"[...] While in this stance, the ghostly image of wings protects the initiator against the spells and powers of evil spells and dark powers, granting him spell resistance equal to 15 + his initiator level and a +4 sacred bonus to saving throws. [...]"
Is the part about "evil spells and dark powers" fluff, or does the SR/ save bonus only apply against Evil spells and spell-like effects?
>>46209885
Magical tattoos exist, or just normal ones, and you can just recast arcane mark out of sight. Also there's that monstrous cohort feat you can take. Not sure WHY your going through all of this to fake being a summoner though, seems rather pointless, honestly.
>>46209885
If 3pp is on the table, DSP has a feat in their occult stuff to fake supernatural abilities.
>>46209916
Not even anything pseudo-magical, like alchemy? I just want it to be non-obvious to all the many outsiders with constant detect magic and arcane sight and shit.
Could I use a Strike and a Boost in one round? Like a standard action maneuver and swift action maneuver on my turn?
>>46209782
Please explain. I get they have spell casting and buffing but it's just flat out sub par compared to cleric/wizard
>>46209885
Why not just have you play the Summoner and the other play the eidolon?
>>46209972
... Yeah?
So which is generally better for roguing? Ninja or Unchained Rogue?
>>46209972
Yes. This is a thing you can do. You can even Counter afterward (not on your own turn, but on someone else's turn as an Immediate)
>>46209885
It's not what you're looking for, but on the other hand, it's probably what you're looking for.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/magic-aura
>>46210007
Doesn't my swift action eat my immediate action too?
>>46209945
>>46209990
Well, said cohort can hulk out and turn into an inhuman monster. The goal is to have people thinking that if they take me down, my cohort will puff out of existence, when in fact I'm the bad-touch tank of the duo and he's just an archer with a backup natural attack.
>>46210051
The other way around. Your immediate action eats your NEXT swift.
>>46210051
No, Immediates eat your NEXT Swift.
>>46209975
They are, at the absolute minimum, the 5th best class in the PHB
In all of Pathfinder, they are around the 10-15th best class
>>46210053
But why?
I liked that one anon's rogue buffs. The one who was clearly trying to go overboard and may have been sarcastic with some of them.
-You roll up to your rogue level in chosen skills at the start of the day, and whenever you'd roll for it normally you can choose the pre-rolled die result instead of rolling.
-Swift 1-round greater invisibilty with a 2-round gap between uses, but you can fatigue and exhaust yourself (recovering briefly I imagine) to do consecutive rounds anyway.
>>46210051
Off-turn immediate actions eat your next swift.
>>46210002
Unchained Eldritch Scoundrel is the best of both worlds, since once you hit mid-levels you can just run any ninja trick you want off of spell slots (Forgotten Trick with Ring of Ki Mastery to lower the slot cost + Pearls of Power to replenish on the cheap).
>>46210083
>5th best class
Who are the other 4?
>>46209227
>>46209201
Naw naw, the woman looked a lot more motherly.
>>46210083
Solely because of their spell casting. Pathfinder tiers are literally just categories of spell progression.
>>46210126
Cleric, Wizard, Druid, Sorcerer
>>46210087
Because I want people to target me and avoid the cohort, and reverse psychology based on a known pet class seems a good way to go about that?
>>46210126
Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, Druid obviously
Is there any item that removes the limitation of crafting no more than one magic item per day? So that I could, for example, scribe more than a single scroll in one day?
Would you marry the Princess?
Or would you refuse, knowing that it's just an excuse for the DM to give you more trouble?
>>46210352
What kind of princess? What's she like? What does she look like?
"Would you marry the princess" is like saying, "would you marry a barmaid?" It depends.
>>46210329
I know of no such item, though I think you can craft several items a day if they cost less than 250 gp.
>>46210352
Well, if she's a jedi, I might give it a miss, because that's pretty much never worked out for anyone.
Otherwise, it depends on a number of factors, including the situation, my character, and the princess herself.
>>46210329
Learn Words of Power, use the Lock Ward spell
I know that Wizards can target their familiar with spells that target only "you", but is there a way for a familiar to target their master with spells that only target "you"?
>>46210352
There's a lot of roleplay vs rollplay debates on pfg, but genuinely, come on.
It's marriage.
Don't think about it from the perspective of whether it's a plot hook or not.
Think about whether your character wants to.
Sure, your PC can in-character weigh the pros and cons, but it's their decision on whether they want to take on the responsibilities and enter that lifestyle or not.
>>46209758
Bards make everyone around them better by default. Like no matter what else is horrible about the bard player's character and build, just by singing they make the party stronger in most of the things a party does. A bad party does better with a Bard around. A good party does better with a Bard around.
And while anyone can use skills, it IS nice to have that one guaranteed person who is good at the social ones, as a charisma-based class with social skills in-class and a spell list that specifically supports it. They also are the person the DM can use to tell the party about history and monsters, with very little investment at all.
Basically the Bard hits a bunch of checkboxes just by existing, that a party can often realize too late that they don't have and finds simple problems way too difficult as a result.
>>46209917
>>46209644
Speaking of that, I'm actually pushing these changes to live. Sorry that PsiAug Occult has been so dead lately, the release of Path of War Expanded has been eating a lot of focus.
Today I've got some updates to the Ectoplasmic Artist to bring though, including a change to its name: as a result of a lot of confusion with the Ectopic Artisan archetype for the aegis (really, I'm not sure what I was thinking with the new name), the Ectoplasmic Artist kineticist is now called the Avant Guard.
The Avant Guard can now choose from any element, though it still loses its initial set of wild talents/blasts. This should allow some more flexibility in utility talents; aether was rather sparse, and many of its utility talents depended on having Basic Telekinesis. They can also now choose the additional menu choices from the Boost Construct feat, their impeccable craftsmanship feature, and other abilities they might have that buff astral constructs at the time of creation, rather than the start of the day.
The archetype can be found here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19y_V3-_cKBzTYiFwt5M3Tij7ahQoPPt9XLTE1wreV68/edit#heading=h.d6k8i1ul1jjg
>>46209990
>>46210053
Well, keep in mind that classes, as an idea, don't really exist in-setting (unless you're using some weird homebrew setting). You don't have a sign floating over your head that reads "SUMMONER" or "RANGER". NPCs shouldn't be able to tell any difference between a Magus and an Wizard/Eldritch Knight beyond "that one seems like he can cast spells and still swing his sword at the same time, but he doesn't cast quite as well as the other guy".
So basically what I'm saying is, use a couple magical tricks like glowing tattoos, stick close to your "eidolon", and tell describe yourself to NPCs like you might describe a Summoner to NPCs. You'll have to roll some bluff checks, so max that skill. If they inquire as to how you keep your Eidolon around so long, tell them you've had special training or it's some innate talent, whatever seems sensible.
>>46210383
Nah, that's what I thought too but double-checking the rules, you can craft potions/scrolls that cost less than 250 GP in 2 hours but still can only craft one per day.
>>46210555
>how you keep your Eidolon around so long
As opposed to the summoner, whose Eidolon is around...always?
Archetype idea:
The player character is the eidolon and summons the summoner
>>46210580
Until the summoner goes to sleep...
How would I calculate how much a wizard's spellbook costs?
>>46209885
On an unrelated note, what's with your pic? Those eyes aren't exactly relevant to the conversatio
>>46210580
I thought there was an hours-per-day limit on having your Eidolon out. Sorry, I don't know the class as well as I do some others since it's kinda soft-banned in the group I play with. Anyway, that just makes it easier. All the PC has to do is call himself a summoner and tell people that his magic buddy would disappear if he died. Spread that rumor as far and wide as he can, getting the renown of high levels will help- and make sure no one who sees his lie demonstrated to be false survives long enough to tell.
>>46210617
What, are your enemies gonna be poking their heads into your tent at night to check on you?
>cohort forced to sleep under the bed at inns so nobody will spot him
Archivist is the best Bard archetype. Your Inspire Courage boosts your party's AC, attack and saves, stacks with other bards (because it's an insight bonus), identifies ALL the monsters and learns their weaknesses, and in general knows everything.
Alright, /pfg/, I need some feat-and-item-choosan assistance.
Buildin' a Level 5 Cavalier based onWilliam the Conqueror. What kind of feats would he have picked if Pathfinder had existed back in1066?
>>46210542
>Avant Guard
Clever girl.
>>46210797
Probably shitty ones like Toughness and Dodge. There was no internet to look guides up on and his group was pretty lucky if they had anything more than the Core Rulebook and Advanced Player's Guide.
>>46210797
Leadership was absolutely one of them.
