Why is MtG lore so shit?
>>46204923
Because we jump locations every block now. So you have to have an open and shut story concerning the plane you are currently on in what used to be 3 books, then 1, now a bunch of web articles and flavor text, all had to be released simultaneously with the cards, so not a whole lot of time to do the writing since they writer pool isn't as large as the development pool. They only just recently started working on an overarching plot, but no one really knows what it is. Most importantly, WotC is trying to sell cards, not lore books, so their resources go into the cards an the lore is more of an extra
Shit got way too expository and detailed
Cards feel more flavorful when you get to fill in the fluff with your imagination rather than each having some cringey explanation of exactly how each card relates to the major plot
because neowalkers
>>46204923
How so? It seems to sell cards just fine, which is all it needs to do, really.
>>46204923
name one card game with good lore.
>>46204923
what lore?
>>46204923
See >>46206406
Oldwalkers were powerful, often obscenely so, but they weren't the stars of the stories. You could always see the effects of their actions (cf. Urza, Mishra, Feroz, etc) but they themselves didn't get much screentime.
>>46206566
Call of Cthulhu
>>46204923
Because we're constantly jumping to new locations while simultaneously sticking with the same group of characters for a prolonged period of time. So the characters get boring and drawn out, while the locations become cookie-cutter backdrops with no depth.
>>46206609
Planeswalkers used to be bit players (except Urza), doing just enough to move the story along (if they showed up at all), while the locals of whatever time period or plane we were on were the story focus.
This allowed the location and locals to be the stars and get the most story development. It also allowed the creative team to tell self contained stories that felt important and weren't just speedbumps on some planeswalker's journey of self discovery.
Even during Invasion block, the block where oldwalkers got the most screentime and story importance, they were still only a piece of the larger story.
>>46206566
War of Omens
>>46206609
Mishra wasn't a planeswalker
>>46204923
It's shit because fantasy has one of the lowest bars to entry. And WotC employ writers who probably can't get published as novelists. It's a worry.
>>46204923
I'd assume it is due to the fact that they can't linger on a plane for too long and introducing a new plane probably pushes more cards than returning to one.
>>46205251
this so fucking much. and if they wanted to be detailed they should've at least hired good writers. have you read the lore stories in the mtg site? shit reads like a high schooler wrote them.
>>46206566
A Game of Thrones
>>46207866
>York-Lancaster war, splashing three kingdoms with a dash of dragon's in a shaker.
It's passable, not good.
>>46207775
I find more annoying how trigger happy they are to retcon stuff now. They don't seem eager to establish some rules for their world and follow them. If they need to rewrite a character, the power and history of the eldrazi, events or all that stuff about "special time travel" in Khans to resurrect a character so be it.
Not like previous writing teams were wonderful, mind you. But with the new one I am not sure where we are or if the stories of today will still be the same stores when the next block arrives and they need to change stuff again.
It's like they have decided they want to tell superhero stories and they are falling in all the pitfalls of the genre on after the other.
>>46207972
>It's like they have decided they want to tell superhero stories and they are falling in all the pitfalls of the genre on after the other.
This. Modern Magic stories are fantasy themed cape comics in all the worst ways.
>>46207775
>>46205251
this desu
>>46207972
>>46208218
is there any place where we can complain and tell them they are ruining the game?
>MtG lore is shit
4chan has shit taste, confirmed once again
>>46208498
just since recently, Origins specifically. mtg lore used to be great.
urza was right
>>46205251
Fourthing this
And I'll add: The entire concept of the lore as it is right now is inherently retarded. How can a bunch of superhero teens traveling across different worlds to fight evil/have romances ever give good stories?
It can't
It is the way it is because of the need to constantly have new planes with new aesthetics, mechanics, lore etc. and because focus group studies show that WotC's target demographic wanted cool recurring teen drama heroes to relate to
>>46207972
Did they ever explain how Mirrodin Goblins went from spiky Dominarian gobbos to whatever the hell SoM gobbos are supposed to be?
>>46207972
>all that stuff about "special time travel" in Khans
The funniest thing is that the clans were way more popular than the dragons in the end. So wait and see how they'll do to undo the results of a story done to undo the death of a character. Maybe they'll gather the Gatewatch again to take down the dragons of Tarkir. I mean c'mon, what are some dragons compared to two Eldrazi titans.
>>46208916
>the clans were way more popular than the dragons
Wow. Who wouldhave thought?
>>46208916
But market research shows new players love dragons! Are you saying making creative decisions based on market research and catering to new players somehow resulted in something bad?
>>46208626
Then why was he such a fuckup?
Urza was so bad at being right even his greatest creation can accidentally entire planes
>>46208916
Fucking this man, I need mai sexy snek waifu back.
>>46208650
Does anybody actually like Jace? Even on just the surface, his name is a faggot's name.
>>46210729
I like Jace. He's not really a faggot in the Uncharted Realms.
>>46210780
I used to dislike him, but I actually enjoyed his Origins story.
>>46210833
Yeah, same.
>>46208741
there's like a dozen different goblin species across the planes
krak goblins aren't even the only goblins on Mirrodin
>>46210528
Hubris, thats why. Joined his mortal enemy because he had nicer toys, was a dick to Serra, and everyone who attended his school because "Gotta beat phyrexia". Killed his adoptive mother and eventually his brother because he was a greedy piece of shit (Also might have been cucked by his brother but never comfirmed). Super dissapointed in how lame his son is, and got sentimental over a defective phyrexian, to the point where he put her rocks in Karn.
Please don't bully Urza, hes just having "a really bad day"
Its' not if you stop after Lorwyn. After that they just start following the same 5+ bland characters over and over again. Urza who was a super god and even cranky old cops like Argus Kos are more interesting characters than most of the Neo-walkers who are impressively boring despite them getting so much development because there the game's mascots.
>>46213003
>It's not if you stop before Lorwyn
ftfy
>>46204923
This one is easy..... Lore in a TCG is like like a plot to a porno, you expect it to be there, but it doesnt really matter that much.
>>46212837
Urza did nothing wrong
>>46206789
>the block where oldwalkers got the most screentime and story importance
You know Urza's Saga is a thing, right?
>>46216028
/thread
>>46206789
>Planeswalkers used to be bit players (except Urza), doing just enough to move the story along (if they showed up at all)
>'Waah, planeswalkers these days are involved in everything! Why can't they focus on the settings more and less on the named characters?'
>mfw Urza got literally three consecutive blocks of focus flying around on a magic boat with all his friends
>>46216466
As was pointed out, Urza was the exception. Even then, he only got one block focused on him.
And while Invasion was the block where oldwalkers got the most screentime and story importance, they were still only one part of a bigger the story.
>>46216625
>mfw Urza got literally three consecutive blocks of focus flying around on a magic boat with all his friends
Was Tempest block about Urza? No, he only showed up on one card in the last set.
Was Masques block about Urza? No, he's not mentioned in the whole block.
Was Invasion block about Urza? He's a main character, but only one of many.
Urza's block was the only block about Urza.
The only block besides Urza's to focus on an oldwalker was Time Spiral, where they killed most of them off and depowered the rest to make way for neowalkers.
>>46216625
weatherlight crew lost their ship/got separated quite a bit, and the planes they visited were all related in some capacity
Them being regular dudes and interacting with regular dudes on a regular basis brought a bit more to the table. Like, Eldamri and Gerrard were ultimately just dudes. They had dude lives and dude armies, and dealt with dude problems despite being snowflake assholes. They couldn't just nope out of their problems with planeswalker powers.
>>46204923
Because it's a card game. Only. Every card game only setting is shit lore.
>Hire good writers
>lore becomes a selling point on the same level as the cards
does this make the card game better? Yes or no.
>>46216061
Urza did everything wrong that could be done wrong, and a few things that couldn't.
>>46206918
Urza 1
Mishra 0
Feldon 0
>>46208916
They did leave plenty of open ended threads that could easily be worked into a revival of wedge clans. You have things like:
Narset looking into old clan lore
Zombie Sidisi biding her time for a chance to take over
DRAGON PUNCH Surrak figuring out dragons can be beaten and eaten
Kin tree worship going on secretly and keeping Anafenza around
>>46218299
Economically yes, because you get more people interested from different angles and can therefore expand the kinds of products you sell. Realistically though WOTC probably thinks that improving the lore is too much work and that they're doing just fine right now. It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy when I think about how the constant stream of shittier books and comics served as justification for culling them completely.
>All hail the Gitrog
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/sacrifice-2016-03-23
The newest chapter is LITERALLY hypnotoad: the meme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64Qq31ucGy0
>>46219199
That seemed to be a fine chapter about a primitive lovecraftian cult to a bizarre monster.
It doesn't do any actual hypnotizing, it's just large and terrible and hungry, and they are stupid/insane.
>>46219286
>it doesn't do any actual hypnotizingThe Gitrog loomed over her, its girth taking up all her vision. It gazed down at her, its eyes two black, fathomless pits, empty of emotion, empty of thought. Mia stared into its eyes and saw...nothing. Wilbur was pulling her to her feet again, yelling something about running, but Mia couldn't hear him. A low drone echoed in her skull, growing in volume, as she fell into the endless hole of the Gitrog's gaze. She fell, tumbling through oozing shadows, fell through the crevices of her mind, collapsed through the membranes into the spongy slime of delirium, cocooned by a strange warmth seeping into her bones and chasing away the pesky cold of doubt and fear and uncertainty. She knew, knew everything now. She saw truth in its blackest form, the clarity of a thousand lifetimes compressed into one moment. Then she turns and kills her best friend, cus you know, hypnotoad.
>>46219339
That seems like generic madness to me but whatever.
>>46210729
He's honestly not that bad in the fiction.
Koth is probably the worst, though that may just be because the writing for The Quest for Karn was almost physically painful to read. He's a racist blowhard with anger issues and a brain the size of a walnut.
MTG can have decent writing sometimes. I am happy they killed off Avacyn instead of making her the sole bulwark against the forces of evil. I have a bigger issue with their card design and the color pie, and how Red will never get cards focusing on emotions besides blind rage.
>>46219339
Is this the same writer who has been inserting his mindbreak fetish into other Uncharted Realms lately?
>>46205251
Fucking millenials, man.
>>46206789
I will say though, as a player who started when Ice Age had just come out, and then quit around Mirage (or possibly the set based around an airship cruising around, Weatherlite?) I'd always wanted to actually play a card named Lim-Dûl, but it never showed up (actually I just googled it and it was in a set named Time Spiral).
However looking back at my 13 year old autistic self, probably having him as an actual card would have been a bad idea. It was a good idea to keep powerful beings in the background and being able to play around with their effects. Being able to field Urza's factories and such made it feel like you were part of a world that had a lot of history, and you wanted to find out more. Being able to just slap Urza down on the tabletop would have removed much of that, because he moves from being some mythical legendary being to, well, someone who can be killed by some random summoned mooks.
>>46219460
No. Last one this guy wrote was All the Cairns of Jund
>>46206605
>4chan themed meme card
>not costed at UUUU with big guy levels of toughness
>red frame with blue and red mana costs to top it all off
The only thing you got right was being bad at Magic on /tg/.
tbqh this was kinda a troll thread but then I read the wiki for Jace and it was fucking terrible.
Take that back, you fa/tg/uy fuck.
>>46204923
The lore is secondary to how the cards interact with each other. if anything, the lore is just there to get people excited for new cards and sets.
>>46223063
It could be less Marvel cinema pleb terrible though. I'd prefer if they went all out and failed rather than rotting for an eternity.
>>46208650
>How can a bunch of superhero teens traveling across different worlds to fight evil/have romances ever give good stories?
That sounds fucking awesome though
>>46219748
millienas are a meme
>>46207921
This is like saying the Lord of the Rings is just a heroes journey with midgets. That is to say, it's patently untrue, and shows that you must not know what you're talking about.
>>46223129
Shh, Anon
don't let him know you actually enjoyfun
>>46208650
This is what I think as far as planeswalkers though. Market tested archetypes that aren't allowed to develop or be offensive. I read the Jace book. His character was nothing new, but his arc was good and it played out like a teen getting in over his head with the mafia. Years later and Jace isn't allowed to be anything but what he is. Nissa was my favorite because she was unlikeable, biased, somewhat cruel, and her actions had dire consequences, and then they retconned half of that out and made her the chosen one. Meh.
I like going from plane to plane though. Problem is they put a huge amount of effort into asthetic and image, and nothing into story. Mirroden falling to Phyrexia was fucking cool, but their trash book was about three cardboard cutouts walking in a tunnel.
Magic lore and mechanics leave a lot to the imagination, which is good, but recently they've not put effort into telling a story other than, "And then these homeless pretty people fixed everything and no one dies." It's gone from impenetrable fantasy concept work to DC comics.
>>46204923
because they never try
>>46225241
What they did to Nissa was borderline criminal. I want to vomit know when I look at miss hippie-dippy leyline lovechild.
>>46225241
>recently they've not put effort into telling a story other than, "And then these homeless pretty people fixed everything and no one dies."
But that's not true. BfZ was actually kind of different in that it ended on a more positive note instead of a bad one like most other recent planes. On Tarkir, Sarkhan saved Ugin, but fucked up the human population and got them all enslaved by dragons. On Theros... do we even need to talk about Theros? Elspeth? Yeah, that's really not a happy ending, and there were a bunch of people that died for no real reason.
>>46225415
What's even worse is that they keep flipflopping.
Sometimes she's the sparkly purepure chosen one who made an accidental booboo because of Mean Old Mr Markov, sometimes she's repentent Elf Hitler who decided FUCK THE MULTIVERSE GOT MINE, and it changes from article to article, and I think once within the same article.
>>46204923
Because some motherfucker decided that Nicol Bolas should just be a mustache twirling villain without any logic to his actions besides MUHAHAHAHA I'M EVIL, LOOK AT HOW EVIL I AM, now. And shockingly this also ruined shit for everyone else because the threat while still there, but is now impossible to take seriously and results in everyone looking like a Mary Sue in comparison with absolutely no tension.
>>46206566
Pokemon
