My LG paladin just got his alignment reversed and I have no idea what to do with him now. Is there anything I could do to salvage the situation besides retiring the character?
>>46198465
Tell your DM he's a dick for forcing personality changes you aren't comfortable with on you. Some things shouldn't be done without player consent.
>>46198465
it's rape, OP
go to your college counsellor and get him arrested
>>46198465
Why was your alignment switched? Any context? If he just wanted to switch it, bring it up with him. If you murder raped 40 orphans, that's your problem.
>>46198518
A stupid decision on my part and a few failed rolls. It was an environmental effect, kind of like the misty hallway in Tomb of Horrors.
Have him be really shit at being evil. Like, really shit. Below Saturday morning cartoon villainy
>>46198594
This sounds like a fun idea.
Steal a full meal, realize you have to make room in your pockets, drop some cash.
>>46198465
Consider pic related.
>>46198594
people can, of course, change alignments over time.
It's perfectly reasonable for him to realise that being evil sucks and decide to be a better person again.
>>46198653
The way he became magically evil feels narratively cheap compared to a long journey of character development. If it were me I wouldn't do it.
>>46198594
"It's not midday yet-but I'm already having lunch! Truly, my chaotic behavior matches the ones of most foul demons!"
>>46198678
Beholdeth! I flagrantly ignore you petty laws of jaywalking and cross where I please and as I please!
As soon as the light changes, of course.
Laugh and gloat often.
If your character was a freakishly good paragon of light, as most paladins should probably be, consider using his low bar for evildoing to your advantage. Perhaps he has always had a secret urge to never return his library books. While this urge was one that would make him feel terrible he is now liberated. He can do whatever he wants! The sky is the limit! Somebody who steals candy from children, spoils the ending to bard stories and dines and dashes for the fun of fucking somebody over is still chaotic evil.
Or, y'know, talk with your GM about it because that is a pretty shitty and artificial thing to do to a character that isn't good for storytelling at all. If the GM refuses to compromise: Leave.
>>46198549
You sure it isn't a temporary thing?
>>46198770
I have no idea, but my gut tells me it's permanent.
>>46198788
If it was some sort of mystical mojo, then maybe getting your ass out of there will fix it. Maybe. Depending on how much of a dick your GM is.
>>46198788
Pay for the atonement spell.
>>46198822
..or go to jail.
>>46198844
Do not pass go, do not collect $200.
>>46198822
How would you justify that as an in character action?
>>46198864
"Oh shit my alignment was forcibly changed by magic. Wait the atonement spell fixes alignment, especially if the shift wasn't intentional"
>>46198880
I said in character.
Why would an evil person have desire to be good? Not a normal person who does bad things. We're talking DnD alignments. An evil person.
>>46198718
>"The fool offered me one free sample....So I took THREE!"
>The kid asked me if Santa was the one that brought him the present. I laughed and proclaimed that it had been I instead!
>>46198465
Become an anti-paladin, then make enough of a mess that someone changes you back.
>>46198880
Then call your GM a cunt for purposely sabotaging your character.
I can understand falling for killing innocents, using poison, or even lying a lot but a mist magically changing your alignment is bulldog lbullshit.
Atonement is designed to fix that.
>>46198892
>We're talking DnD alignments
Exactly why you shouldn't ever use D&D alignments.
>>46198892
Simple, "Oh shit, I'm much less effective in combat now so I'm much more likely to get murdered, it's in my best interests to get my alignment magically shifted back to good so I don't get fucked over"
>>46198892
The spell doesn't just change your memory, or your relationships or anything except your perception of them.
Your character basically now doesn't feel any need to follow the law or help others.
At the very least, they should wonder why suddenly this has shifted.
It's only reasonable to worry you got brain damage from the fumes or something. Take it up with a cleric. That's what you were taught to do.
CE makes you selfish and impulsive, not a sociopathic monster.
>>46198892
Because it was a forced change that wouldn't effect a characters outlook.
He didn't wrongly kill anyone or do anything evil it was forced.
Even a paladin in the orc baby dilemma doesn't go from an upholder of Justice to a moustache twirling asshole.
To suggest otherwise is retarded and fundamentally doesn't understand alignment.
>>46198892
A character doesn't need to think in terms of alignment. He could conceivably just be against things fucking with his mind.
>>46198892
>Party members notice that weird fog has caused paladin to cackle maniacally and sing about murdering innocents.
>Party members restrain the now-powerless paladin and bring him to cleric for exorcism.
Done.
>>46198892
Someone fucked his brain up and he's going to do anything to a: fuck up the thing that did it to him, and b: fix it, because fuck that shit. And he'll murder anyone who doesn't help him fix it.
>>46198465
>My LG paladin just got his alignment reversed and I have no idea what to do with him now. Is there anything I could do to salvage the situation besides retiring the character?
Man, if I was more given to hyperbole, I'd tell OP to go back to his hugbox on [OTHER WEBSITE]. Just roll with it, ya big baby. This anon had a great idea >>46198594
>>46198892
>oh no i stepped intoweird fog
>welp, i'm evil now, time to rape and pillage, i guess.
Your character's entire outlook doesn't suddeny change if you step into magical shit. This is retarded even for D&D alignments.
Your paladin could feel he got possessed by something evil, that thoughts appear in his brain that are distinctly not -his-.
He could suppress them (and risk succumbing), go to town and find a cleric, or become double-plus good to counteract evil cravings, that's all good roleplay. "Beep boop i am an alignment robot" is absolutely the worst roleplay imaginible and i sincerely wish for everyone doing that to have a sea urchin shoved up their dick.
Jesus fuck, i shouldn't explain this shit to grown-ass man.
>>46198594
Do this, OP. It would be perfect.
>>46198788
If you fell because of a magical compulsion you should role play it. Paladin sucks that you lose your effectiveness as a class while a rogue can shift from Robin Hood to Stabby McRape-Murderson and not lose his class effectiveness. Tell your gm you don't mind role playing it but if you aren't permitted some avenue of keeping effective then there isn't a point in keeping your character alive. The rules usually don't let a mind fucked paladin instantly become an anti paladin, but just an ineffective fighter. You'd have to go out of your way to become an anti paladin, and it would probably be easier for your newly evil character to just go get the mental compulsion removed because he has lost his powers.
A fallen paladin isn't as good at fighting, and should lose all class features except for proficiency so a single spell by your party members when you are distracted should be enough to get you chained up and having the spell removed. Either they can get their holy warrior that annoys them to do the right thing but they know they can trust, or they can have a dickbag with no powers who might betray them at any point to steal your treasures or join the cultists and make up for his lost power.
If it's not a mental compulsion then just do atonement.
>>46199032
After a particularly bad session with a dude, we got to talking about morality and ethics.
I asked him "How do you know what is good?"
And he literally couldn't answer.
Not "There is no good" or some shit like that. This dude, this grown ass, nearly 30 year old man, couldn't tell me anything about how he determined the morality of something.
>>46198892
>>46198934
Consider how stupid this sounds.
Justice McStrong, stalwart upholder of the righteous and all around good guy has been raised in a cloister since early childhood to be a paladin and defender of the meek.
He has based his entire identity off of his moral code and belief.
One day he walks through a portal, one which happens to contain an alignment shift spell.
What makes more sense
His alignment shifts towards evil, McStrong realizes there's a problem and gets it fixed with an atonement spell.
Or
The spell rewrites his entire upbringing, moral code and life experiences. McStrong becomes a bad Saturday Morning Cartoon villain.
>>46198892
Alignment in D&D is a mechanic like health. It is like asking why a character in DH would try to keep his corruption at minimum
Rape your DM and murder all other party members.
Apparently this is the only option.You fucking baby.
>>46199085
Second one makes more sense, yeah. First one is just stupid and reeks of metagaming.
>>46199032
Difference being that stepping on a frog isn't something that magically shifts your alignment. It's pretty much mind-control bro.
Sure, you do something wrong. Your alignment changes to reflect your actions. Alignments should be reactive. Descriptive rather than prescriptive.
But that isn't what's happening here and therefore any arguments about alignment botting aren't relevant. Something magical came along and twisted his mind so now he's evil. Yet again, not neutral, evil. He has an ACTIVE DESIRE to do wrong.
>>46199085
The latter. Because that's how the spell works. It doesn't care about your previous thoughts an ethics, it just changes your morality to evil. If anything the ability to resist turning evil is represented in the saving throw (with paladins get a bonus to, representing their upbringing and life experiences).
>The villain mind controls you to do his bidding
What makes more sense
>The character continues doing exactly what he was going to do anyway but has a hawrd time :< even though you lost the save
or
>He fucking mind controls you and you do his bidding, like the spell is meant to represent
If it were something like he did something that made him slip off the path. Like, he killed a guy in cold blood because he was angry and his alignment shifted. Yes. What you were saying would be true. But it wasn't that sort of action. It was mind-altering magic.
>>46198892
If we're talking D&D, he should have already turned good again for not starting to plot the universe' demise and how to kick the largest possible number of puppies most efficiently right away.
>>46199059
Well, shit.
Guess it's not really surprising considering people usually drawn to traditional games.I wish it was.
>>46199085
>The spell rewrites his entire upbringing, moral code and life experiences. McStrong becomes a bad Saturday Morning Cartoon villain.
This one is the only reasonable option. It's magic, it's supposed to work like that.
>>46198465
>Gain clarity of moral purpose
>slaughter hundreds of hippies as you hold hands with a rape-nun of the tentacle rape sect
Basically go fully Sword of Truth?
>>46199123
>The latter
Well, then the most appropriate course of action is to punch DM in the dick. He didn't just derail player's whole character, he also made him a shitty fighter in one fell swoop of the die. Could have just pulled "haha, you die, no save", as it's essentially the same.
Also, mind control spells do not just fucking switch your whole alignment, that's retarded even by D&D standards.
>>46199184
You're absolutely right. Alignment shift things are and have always been incredibly forced and reserved for only the most retarded of GMs. There are ways I imagine to make it work but on the whole it's really, really shitty and artificial.
And right again. Mind control spells don't shift your whole alignment. They control your mind. Alignment switch spells switch your whole alignment.
>>46199123
>But that isn't what's happening here and therefore any arguments about alignment botting aren't relevant. Something magical came along and twisted his mind so now he's evil. Yet again, not neutral, evil. He has an ACTIVE DESIRE to do wrong.
Then party just does >>46199049 and >>46198944 .
>>46199032
>Your paladin could feel he got possessed by something evil, that thoughts appear in his brain that are distinctly not -his-.
Except that if his paladin was changed by what you're suggesting - the fog from Tomb of Horrors - then not only is the paladin's alignment changed, but they actually now consider it to *be* their natural alignment and will as strongly resist being changed back as they would have resisted being changed in the first place were it possible.
>Your character's entire outlook doesn't suddeny change if you step into magical shit. This is retarded even for D&D alignments.
It does, actually. Leaving aside that Good, Evil, Law, and Chaos are actual, measurable forces in D&D, a character's alignment is the sum of his outlook, thoughts, and actions. If he doesn't think or act like an evil person, then he ISN'T evil. If he doesn't think or act like a Chaotic person then he ISN'T Chaotic.
A formerly Lawful Good person who just shifted to Chaotic Evil should damn well act Chaotic Evil, not like a Lawful Good person who occasionally has Chaotic Evil thoughts. No, this doesn't necessarily mean raping and pillaging everything he comes across, but it does mean that they're now selfish and utterly unconcerned with laws and morals when trying to do what they want; pic related.
>>46199085
>His alignment shifts towards evil, McStrong realizes there's a problem and gets it fixed with an atonement spell.
Again, that's not how the damn thing *works*. They'll most likely consider a forced shift in alignment to be just as fundamentally horrifying as they would have if they'd been given a choice originally. Most likely their mind frames it as having had a sudden revelation about their life choices: "I have been mistaken in everything I've assumed and done up to this point!"
>>46199119
>>46199123
>>46199143
Word of God is that magical alignment change doesn't affect one's background, experiences, goals or perception.
If you want to be a bunch of edgy contrarians go for it but the creators of the game say you're wrong.
>>46199184
>He didn't just derail player's whole character, he also made him a shitty fighter in one fell swoop of the die.
The Blackguard and Oathbreaker classes exist for a reason...
>>46199224
>magical alignment change doesn't affect one's goals or perception
>changing one's goals and perception doesn't change one's goals and perception
This is utterly retarded.
>>46199236
Why do you assume the DM will give the player those choices?
>>46199224
Source? And note that it depends on how he shifted alignment. The Helm of Opposite Alignment, for example, notes that the wearer *likes* his new alignment and will actively resist attempts to change it.
>>46199224
>goals or perception
Then what does it change?
Which God by the way? That sounds like Paizo. Which edition is probably also important for the discussion. I imagine 5th ed is more lax on it in favour of the more sensible RP option, while 3.5 if rife with alignments (and other mechanics) meaning and representing different things depending on what rule your reading for instance.
>>46199236
Yes they do, but you first have to get to them. Plus, the most likely outcome would be the rest of the party bonking him over the head with something heavy, bringing him to cleric and having his shit magically fixed, because "holy dude with cool utility magic" definitely sounds better than "backstabbing cuntwho eats children".
>>46199254
Why do you assume he won't? I did when one of my players stepped into the Tomb of Horror's fog as a Lawful Good male and stepped out a Chaotic Evil female. Specifically Pazuzu stopped time for everyone but him and the ex-Paladin and offered to allow him to instantly trade in his paladin levels to gain Blackguard levels, as per the 3.5's DMG's rules. The ex-paladin accepted.
Had I known about them at the time I probably would have allowed him instead to become a Paladin of Slaughter if he wanted.
Dude stepped into the fog and failed, knowing full well ahead of time that in the Tomb of Horrors, if you step into fog, you're gonna have a bad time.
He's being punished for the failure, but I want the game to keep going.
>>46199278
>"backstabbing cuntwho eats children".
Chaotic Evil doesn't necessarily mean that. Also the Party first has to realize that his alignment has shifted at all.
>>46199293
But you aren't OP's DM. That DM might have the same motives as you, or he may just have a hateboner for Paladins or the OP.
>>46199326
Well, we don't know either way, so it's a moot point. Positions reversed I would have asked my DM immediately if I can trade in those dead Paladin levels for levels in Blackguard. Apparently OP felt coming to /tg/ to whine about it felt that was a better option.
>>46199340
We need to have the OP describe exactly how the alignment shift happened. >>46198549 doesn't cut the mustard.
Don't change your demeanor, change your motivation.
>>46199340
Clarification on the whining part - D&D is a game where magical alignment shifts can and do happen, and this is known and has been known for ages.
Gender change, too.
Unless you have a talk with your DM beforehand about what you are and are not okay with, then there is no reason for the DM to ever assume that anything is off the table and so he should be and is free to implement anything and everything in the DMG as he likes. As long as the players are appropriately-challenged - no Elder Red Wyrm against a bunch of level 5s, for example - then everything is kosher.
So if you're playing D&D, and you step into some magical fog, and suddenly find your alignment having shifted from Lawful Good to Chaotic Evil, well, that shit happens. It is not, from a design standpoint, any different from failing a save VS death effect and having your character die - arguably it's actually better since you can still play your character, and you knew full well going in that this was a possibility. Perhaps a remote one, but a possibility nonetheless.
Ya rolls yer dice, ya takes yer chances.
>>46199392
though to be fair if a DM just one day asked you to save vs death out of nowhere, you're legally allowed to punch him in the dick
>>46199427
No you're not. Paladin shouldn't have failed his perception check.
You don't like surprise rounds? Get a better passive perception.
I guess the real problem here is that I don't know how to play an evil character. I'm pretty sure that if I try to act evil the other paladin would notice and smite my ass into oblivion.
>>46199470
Really, just talk about it with the GM. Then you can start approaching the issue. Talk about your feelings about what's happening. Find some middle ground.
>>46199470
Chaotic Evil, right?
- You work towards your own benefit as your primary goal
- You will help others, but require some form of compensation to do so. Money, land, rank, bitches, whatever floats your boat.
- You don't care about the law or morals. You don't necessarily go out of your way to subvert them - they just simply don't enter into your thoughts when deciding what to do.
- While you would love to just take whatever you want whenever you want it, you're probably aware that you're outnumbered a ton and doing so will result in prison or death. This is detrimental to you.
That should about cover you.
>>46198594
Great idea, the palidan probably doesn't even know what real evil would be like
>>46199470
Just try to murder a drape everything at every opportunity while you're conscious. That way you can get him either A) Killed off so you can roll another LG character or B) knocked out and fixed by the party. Nobody said that this radical shift in your alignment was in any way stable for your mind.
>>46199392
>As long as the players are appropriately-challenged - no Elder Red Wyrm against a bunch of level 5s, for example - then everything is kosher.
When it's something that obvious, I'd say it's up to the players to bug out.
>>46199470
JJust because you're evil, doesn't mean you have to like it. Your character still remembers that he once loved and cared about the world.
Now, he can only feel hatred and coldness, but even in this agony, he can still feel the embers of the flame imprinted in his soul.
A radiant flame that gave him the strength to outshine the greatest darkness. To face impossible odds and through love, warmth and kindness persevere all odds. A flame that is now gone.
And hatred, coldness and loneliness has taken its place.
After an impulsive act of violence, should be followed by grief and sadness, not for what you have done (you are evil and don’t care about others), but for what you have lost.
You know what you did is evil, that you should care, but you simple can not.
>>46198482
>help help this isn't fate I can't cheat my way out of every single failed save
>>46199059
Just because is CHA is low, doesn't mean his WIS or INT is low.
>>46198894
"I give thee Hallows Eve vagrants not delicious confections but nutritious fruit and sugar free gum! Truly my evil is the greatest in all the.....HARK! Some scoundrel has striken upon my door the eggs of poultry! I now retract even my healthy offerings and extinguish my light so that none may partake. Thou hast brought this upon thineselves!"
Even if turning someone evil like that was anything other than shitty its even worse to not give them the chance to fix it.
If it s permanent just keep being a paladin but defile the commandement of your god and use some 50k$/h lawyer logic to justify your deeds.
basically behave like prophet mahomet kill none believer enslave them etc etc.
>>46200605
That's Lawful Evil.
>>46198465
Consider this.
Your memories, upbringing, and compulsions haven't changed. However, your New You is now 'evil' and impulsive.
So you're still a justice warrior of good, but now you're more like the dick super hero that shows up on Power Puff Girls or similar.
You impulsively act strongly against all offenders of your code, you're overzealous and can't hold back about it, you're vane about appearing as the best most shiny, super paladin ever.
However you might instead of being charitable be a dick to the less fortunate and offer them a psalm or something instead of a handout. A person with a tragic tale you'll cut off mid story and miss tree details, and instead just go be vindictive to that person's wrong doer "Repent or Die!" (But maybe only give him a severe beating)
You're still adhering to your code, but you're self righteous, vane, and vindictive about it, and maybe prone to spouting proverbs and psalms plus a spanking to the most minor offenders you just see at random.
"LITTERER! YOU SHALL TASTE THE FIRES OF RETRIBUTION FOR YOUR GRAVE AND WASTEFUL FOLLY! REPENT CRAVEN FIEND!"
>To 4 yo who missed the waste basket in the park.
Thanks for the help guys, I managed to raise my alignment to LN after my character refused to take part in the massacre of a kender village. Even evil has its standards, I suppose.
>>46203136
A kender village... how high was the will check?
>>46203136
Well what the fuck was even the point of changing your alignment in the first place then?
>>46199453
Your wrong, and here's how:
Mechanically, the only thing you've done with alignment change is punish a player for growing attached to a character they made by employing some bullshit fairy invention that compels them to play a character they don't want to. It also further Mechanically improves TN as an alignment, as oppositional alignment rules rarely fuck such characters.
Killing the character, at least, isn't forcing the player to deal with the horseshit of a Dm trying to force them to play something they don't want: it takes them out of the game, but that happens from bad rolls, not because some cockweasel decided one of the only classes that requires 2 specific alignments should suffer even further.
And this shit happens mostly to paladins: when is the last time this shit happened to an antipaladin or a class where alignment doesn't matter?
>>46198653
Depends on the source. The Helm of Opposite Alignment, for example, specifically states that the character loves their new alignment and would be horrified at the prospect of going back.
>>46198465
Is he also taking away your magic? If yes, then your DM is a dick for neutering your character.
If he can still use his LG magic then fine. I'd be fucked up if a god gave up on one of their warriors because they've been cursed.
Also see:
>>46199367
Your character's personality shouldn't be defined by their alignment in the first place.
Prove to your DM you can play a Chaotic Evil character without descending the game itself into chaos.
>>46203470
>Your character's personality shouldn't be defined by their alignment in the first place.
Yeah, but one, people always want to play D&D for some reason, and two, that makes them insist that it is.
>>46199912
Literally how. The dragon is faster then you in every way, and even if you roll a 20, his BONUS is bigger then your total possible hide score.
>>46203136
Really? Kenders? You should have become double evil for that.
>>46198594
This is the best answer. Completely over the top just to exasperate the GM.
> "..hey who messed with my stew?"
> "ha-ha! twas I! so much salt! how bitter it must now be!"
> "it's actually a lot better now"
> "curses!!"
>>46203136
Actually, societies composed solely of kender work just fine.
Once everybody's on the same page with the whole "no personal property, everyone just use what you need" thing it works well, at least on a small-community-where-everyone-knows-each-other scale.
>>46204435
Especially when taking into account that they are all inhuman and have a different mindset than is possible for a human to have
>>46198894
>You thought an old man in a red suit brought children presents every year, but it is *I*! DIO!
>>46204435
>>46204944
They would still be hung on gibbets all over the place anywhere else.
>>46198482
>Tell your DM he's a dick for forcing personality changes you aren't comfortable with on you
this,
A GM should only ask for an alignment change if he feels a different alignment would better reflect how your PC is behaving overall (for example your LN character has a long history of not honoring agreements and breaking laws whenever it suits him may lead to your GM, asking you to change the character's alignment to TN of CN, as this better reflects how the character has been behaving)
but dumping some magical do-dad that just changes a character's alignment upon activation, save or no, I still feel like this is a dick-move on the GM's part.
Espicially on a PC who's class abilities are alignment-sensitive, not just the paladin, monks, barbarians, and clerics have alignment-sensitive class abilities, so to dump some shit that forces an alignment change is especially dickish.
You know what I would do? continue to have your character act LG. when the GM calls you out on not acting according to your new alignment, give him the birdie.
>>46198482
If you want to be 100% in control of everything that happens to your precious character write a fucking story.
I bet you make a scene if your character ever gets a crippling injury or dies too. Pussy.
>>46205130
>>46205150
Girls, please, not all at once.
Don't GMs usually force an alignment change if you act out of alignment? Like, your Lawful Good Rogue goes around kicking babies in their not-fully-grown skulls, your GM would change your alignment to Evil. Nothing's stopping that Rogue from acting out of alignment, so what's stopping your Paladin?
>>46205150
>I bet you make a scene if your character ever gets a crippling injury or dies too. Pussy.
naw, that's just how these things go. Sometimes the dice just screw you, though it might make for some interesting character development.
now outright telling a player "your character will act this way from now on" please refer to my rant here: >>46205130
So you got switched to CE?
Jesus fuck.
>>46199123
>he's evil. Yet again, not neutral, evil. He has an ACTIVE DESIRE to do wrong.
Serious question. Would you say that someone who does what he wants and has no compunctions about horribly murdering anyone who gets in the way, is Neutral?
>>46205457
>has no compunctions about horribly murdering anyone who gets in the way
then he has crossed the line, now he is evil.
>>46199511
^Use this OP.
You might even be able to get your group to like it if you can push for them to receive extra rewards for things when you might've passed up on those before.
>>46203136
You're a fucking shit, that would've been a great time to be evil. Those fucks all deserve death.
>>46199511
Don't forget that he's aware that he loses all of his powers if he stops following the strictures, which is immensely against his own interests. Like someone else said he shouldn't have fallen just because of a curse. There are two interpretations of why a paladin falls. One is that his god forsakes him because of his deeds. No god in his right mind would do that just because a character got cursed. The other is that he loses faith and makes himself forsake his powers subconsciously. Which doesn't make sense either, because at this point he doesn't think he's doing anything wrong, so there's no reason for him to lose faith.
>>46205520
did it ever occur to you that maybe the player doesn't want to run a evil character in the first place?
>>46198465
Do >>46198482
But in the meantime cause your now CE paladin to take joy in incredibly petty, small crimes, like stealing one of every pair of socks, leaving peoples food out to go bad, and tipping cows
>>46203136
>yfw ops CE anti paladin rationalized not killing killing the kender would be eviler
>yfw him becoming LN as a result is entirely incidental
To be fair, my character hadn't seen what the kender had done to the others. For all he knew, the rest of the party had a major disagreement with the locals and decided to burn the place to the ground and leave no survivors. Seeing as he was a neophyte fresh out of the holy order, he wasn't prepared for what he saw there at all.
[spoilers]OOC I was glad to see the thieving bastards die, though.[/spoilers]
>>46204435
Fucking commies
>>46205099
Oh, sure. Even within the canonical Dragonlance stuff, they're basically seen as pests and vermin in cities run by other races. Think how Europe thinks about gypsies.
Whoever wrote their entry in the 3.5 Dragonlance Campaign Setting must have been high on something.
>>46198742
I like this take on it. 'He's evil' doesn't need to mean 'he's now a raping murderface who murders and rapes'
He now indulges in all the small evils he tried hard to avoid. he is liberated! And then he starts to notice that 'hey, my cool powers don't work anymore, and I'm way more unsafe because of that. How do I fix it?' like >>46198915 suggests.
>>46206727
ha ha
>>46198465
Alignment is Descriptive not Proscriptive. Just carry on as normal and expect Paladin attacks from those who ping you and don't ask questions
>>46198892
Evil could be defined as willingness to use evil methods to bring about a certain goal, and one could perceive one's personality switch as something which makes themselves less effective.
Honestly, you might have to take the "I think therefore I am" approach and try to use your old code as a crutch because your worldly perception just fucked up, and you've got to figure some shit out.
A similar thing happens in one Jack Vance story, where the character is pretty damned evil, but doesn't understand what good things are because the guy that created her fucked up when making her brain, so she has to kind of logically feel out what right and wrong are, like trying to identify things by sense of touch. Eventually she gets her brain fixed because she tries her best to be a good person in spite of being tempted to murder everything.
That could be a way to go;
>Alignment shift causes a sense of disbelief in Paladin Code
>Disbelief, rather than action, causes voluntary fall
>Fall causes loss of power
>Paladin seeks atonement in order to get powers back
>Atonement realigns Paladin
Or, you know, start kicking puppies or something. That also works.
>>46199783
>Just try to murder a drape
>>46198594
>>46205542
>There are two interpretations of why a paladin falls.
Three, actually. The third is that if a paladin ceases to be Lawful Good, as this paladin has. Again, within the context of D&D, Law and Good and Chaos and Evil are actual, measurable forces. The paladin's Law and Good just got reduced to 0, so he's now an ex-Paladin.
>>46205543
Ttthhhhppppp. Evil can be fun if you just give it a chance.
>>46210404
Nah, it's impossible for a paladin to fall without some willing action on the paladin's part that causes the fall.
>>46205542
Paladins aren't empowered by their faith. Paladins are empowered by their dedication to Law and Good. Faith in a god can help with that, but it isn't necessary.
>>46212258
Sometimes this is true, sometimes it isn't.
>>46198465
All right, I asked my GM before but I'm still curious what the answer "at large" is. If you suffer a forced alignment change, do you have to change your personality? I was thinking about werewolves and the forced alignment change to "evil". I thought that it was just there for holy water/holy warding, and not to make the character immediately a bad person. Is it on a case-by-case basis? Or does an alignment change ALWAYS change the personality of the affected? Could a paladin detect as evil, as chaotic, and still behave LG?
>>46212777
Are there rules you can look up for this?
I mean, this is shit you try to come up with at character creation, not straight during a campaign.
Maybe instead of being a good guy bro paladin, you turn into a firebrand inquisitor-type with a chip on his shoulder? I don't fucking know, fuck alignments.
>>46212777
You might act more impulsive, or more selfish, but your mind is still yours. And you can actively start to fix yourself if you don't like yourself. Many evil/neutral/good characters have taken actions outside their alignment repeatedly in order to shift their place in the system. They aren't manacles, but it could be a fun for some roleplay sessions to suddenly act selfish around people.
>>46198594
OP needs to just channel his inner Papyrus.
