What is the Biblical God's alignment?
>>46174428
Lawful evil.
>>46174428
Chaotic Neutral
>>46174428
If you are Christian or Jewish, Lawful Good.
If you aren't, then nothing. This thread is going to be shit anyway, /tg/ goes full retard whenever military tactics, religion, and for some strange reason food is brought up.
>>46174428
OT: Chaotic Neutral
NT:
>Father
Lawful Neutral
>Son
Chaotic Good
>Holy Spirit
Neutral Good
>>46174449
> for some strange reason food is brought up.
You can thank Dungeon Meshi for that one.
Also, to add onto your list, elves.
>>46174428
Jewish Version: Lawful Evil
Christian Version: Neutral Good
Muslim Version: Chaotic Evil
>>46174428
He's God. He IS the alignment.
>>46174428
it swings from Self-Righteous Good to Chaotic Twat
>>46174428
Whatever he wants it to be. At his power level, he could literally reach into his character sheet and rewrite it as needed.
>>46174630
He's the DM?
>>46174570
>so I told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac and he actually did it the absolute madman!
Honestly, with OT stuff, I'd say Lawful Neutral.
While he commands absolute authority and in general calls for "goodness" of his worshipers, he himself is stated to be the creator of both good and evil.
>I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Of course different interpretations have different views of God, but a lot of verses in the Old Testament make God seem to be something beyond mortal standards of good and evil.
>>46174655
Yes.
In a certain point of view, God is the DM of this great RPG called life. And most of us are NPCs.
>>46174428
Chaotic Bait
>>46174689
And all the Biblical heroes are the PCs?
Does that mean that Jesus was a DMPC?
And Adam and Eve were dumbass players that didn't follow the railroad so the DM punished them?
>>46174428
Lawful evil.
>>46174707
>Does that mean that Jesus was a DMPC?
Either plot important NPC, DMPC, or just the DM's favored PC depending on interpretation.
>>46174707
Any hero or legendary figure is a PC in a different type of game.
Adam and Eve where dumbass players that fucked up the simplest quest they where given. There really is no easy way of generalizing Jesus in this analogy.
>>46174676
>So get this I dressed up as a burning bush and told Moses to start writing into stone these rules like he's my fucking secretary.
>We got to "thou shall not kill" and he asks me "What about when you killed all the first born in Egypt? All the first born that were born a week before Passover?"
>mfw
> I told him "Don't question me I am the LORD now get to writing!"
> sucker bought it
>>46174428
Actually as an Atheist, I don't believe in the existence of Alignment.
2nd coming and all that it entails is pretty fucking evil. All the shit Jesus did on Earth during his life is basically smoke screen.
>every single Non-Christian person will be obliterated and Earth shall be made kingdom of the dead
>>46174872
>every single Non-Christian person will be obliterated and Earth shall be made kingdom of the dead
what are you on about?
>>46174454
I'd probably say that they should still be within one alignment step of the next one, so
>Father
LN
>Holy Spirit
LG
>Son
NG (While he's about changing things, he's not actively destroying all that is OT)
>>46174428
Seriously, you're either a troll or retarded.
>>46174872
The Book of Revelation is political allegory, written long after the other gospels. IIRC it's about Emperor Nero's reign.
>>46174872
The 2nd coming in Christian morality, which if Christianity is true is the only true actual moral path, is perfectly good and lawful - the wrongdoers and evil people are punished. For example, all the nonchristians who disrespect God by not worshipping him.
>>46174428
What alignments do the Norse gods have?
>>46174428
The Demiurge is Lawful Evil, but thinks that it is Lawful Good. This is because it does not comprehend good vs evil, only obedience vs disobedience. In it's obsession with obedience, it engages in endless atrocities for what it considers the only important thing.
The divine revealed is Neutral Good. Concepts other than good and evil melt away in it's perfected understanding of what is righteous.
>>46174441
First post was the most correct.
>>46175230
this
>>46174428
Seems like bait, but I'll through Lawful Neutral on the pile.
>>46175159
For the most part Smug Tosser
>>46174428
Christian Fag here - OT, Lawful Evil. NT, Chaotic Good.
Islam - Lawful Neutral
Judaism - Lawful Neutral
>>46175303
Sorry, self correction: in NT he's NEUTRAL Good.
>>46174454
This is roughly accurate according to my faith, at least.
>>46175303
>OT, Lawful Evil
>Judaism - Lawful Neutral
Shouldn't these be the same?
>>46175325
No, because.among other things, Judaism has no Hell. Jehovah in general is more of a dick TO Jews than to non Jews except when he's committing genocide
>>46174740
>Adam & Eve
>Ok guys, here's your sandbox world, do whatever you want
>WTF God-DM, you said there would be fights and intrigue
>Lolno
>Have fun playing with the animals and the trees, except THIS TREE FOR SOME REASON
>Well, here goes our plot hook
>This NPC snake suggest you EAT THE FRUIT FROM THIS FUCKING FORBIDDEN TREE
>Gee, I got it God, I'll bite into your literal bait
>WOOOOOOOOOW WHY THE FUCK DID YOU DERAIL MY EDEN, GTFO
God is a shit DM
>>46174428
Lawful Good.
>>46175366
>players given literally one job
>they listen to a talking animal they just met instead of the LORD
God has shit players.
>>46175425
We deserve each other.
>>46174428
Ialdaboath: lawful evil
Yeshua, hallowed be his blessed name: true good
>>46174428
More importantly, what alignment is Thoth?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwCaZaSon9A
>>46174428
unaligned
>>46174776
It's thou shalt not murder
Try again.
>>46174428
Chaotic Evil, just on the basis of the whole "infinite punishment for finite sins" thing and him generally being a petty, vengeful asshole.
>>46174454
This.
>>46176951
You mean like he murdered all those children?
>>46174428
Once again atheists who never made it far in life start a thread on an anime discussion board to provoke other people's beliefs rather than googling their questions and seeking the advice of professional theologians.
>>46174428
I'm not Christian, but Jimmy Rome (SoS threads) gave a pretty good pragmatic view of it from a Catholic perspective. Good and evil are human constructs, us trying to project our infantile conceptions of good and evil on a universe far beyond our comprehension.
God isn't good or evil, he isn't anything, he's fucking God, when you're playing League of Legends, do you call Summoner's Rift good or evil? Of course not, that's retarded, you don't blame the map for your performance.
Good and evil don't exist. They're just words you use to contextualize your suffering.
>>46177049
>everybody should take an effort to buy into my delusions
Keep supporting that demiurge though
>>46174570
>>46174525
Both these answers are correct.
The older version's of god are fuckin' weird.
>>46177049
>I want to bend the knee to a being who made us sick and commands us to be well, and will burn even the kindest, most selfless individual forever if they dare to be a non-believer (but hey, God still lovestheir tormented screamsthem)
>>46177227
Thing reminds me of Patrician in Colour of Magic and subsequent novels.
"Was he the same character?"
"Yes, but written by younger author."
>>46174441
/thread
>>46177511
If you wanted to /thread, you should have picked this one >>46174565
That one was just edgy garbage.
>>46175236
>the guy who matches my argument and beliefs looks like a well adjusted man
>The guy who disagrees with my arguments and beliefs looks like a raging retard
>every one of these ever
I didn't even read the paper, so I have no idea what side you're on. I can say with a certainty that you're a faggot though.
>>46177777
One man should never possess such power over digits.
>>46177777
The sevens don't lie, he is a faggot
>>46174428
Whatever God dictates it to be.
>>46174441
Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. Did thou teach the gorilla warfare? Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? When I made for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors, And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed? Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place; That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? From the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken. Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death? Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all. Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great? Hast thou given the horse strength? He mocketh at fear, and is not affrighted; neither turneth he back from the sword. The quiver rattleth against him, the glittering spear and the shield. He swalloweth the ground with fierceness and rage: neither believeth he that it is the sound of the trumpet. He saith among the trumpets, Ha, ha; and he smelleth the battle afar off, the thunder of the captains, and the shouting. Doth the hawk fly by thy wisdom, and stretch her wings toward the south?Doth the eagle mount up at thy command, and make her nest on high? She dwelleth and abideth on the rock, upon the crag of the rock, and the strong place. From thence she seeketh the prey, and her eyes behold afar off. Her young ones also suck up blood: and where the slain are, there is she.
>>46174428
Depends - is he truly all powerful? If so then he is definitely chaotic evil.
If hes not all powerful, who gives a fuck what his alignment is.
>>46174676
Correction, he told Abraham to sacrifice Issac, but stoped him at the last second
>>46174428
Lawful good
>>46174428
Moral
>>46174428
True Neutral.
God is pre-moral, indeed, the system of morality is of his own devising, and so he is fundamentally Amoral, because morality is the set of "laws" he created for mortals to abide by, and he never intended himself to be constrained by it.
For clarity, I do not believe in God, but an Ur-being who precedes any social order or system in which morality actually has a function, is logically neither moral nor immoral.
>>46174428
Depends on whether or not He is the source of morality or not. If so, then He is considered technically LG as He is infallible. Should He decide to do something that was, only a moment ago, considered evil, that act becomes LG for him to participate in.
If He isn't the source of morality, he is CE, as his behavior in the bible without the added backup of being immediately infallible is indicative of psychosis, which always makes it's victim's alignment shift to CE in most additions of D&D. His host of Angels are probably all still LN in this case, as they have no concept of good or evil but are unwavering faithful. I mean, most of them.
>>46175591
Space Jews
>>46174428
Chaotic evil.
Seemingly random, no interest in anything besides frightening people into obeying him, frequently makes an example out of people who had no way of seeing it coming and who were not actually hurting anyone, just doing stuff he didn't want them to. No qualms about murdering innocents.
If you actually read the bible everyone is a huge dick, including jesus.
Bibleguy:
>Jesus, we're eating, wash your fucking hands.
Jesus
>YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO, FUCK YOU, YOU DON'T EVEN KILL YOUR KIDS FOR TALKING BACK TO YOU, YOU HAVE NO MORAL HIGHGROUND!
God
>Hehe, those kids made fun of a bald guy, watch as make a bear kill them all, hehe.
>>46180642
Except we, human beings, are the ones asked to assign labels to him in this case.
It doesn't matter if a criminal doesn't consider what he does a crime if everyone else does.
We're the ones passing judgement in the thread and according to any reasonable framework of human morality and law, God would end up in the chaotic evil category.
>>46180834
To be honest, the 3x3 alignment grid isn't exactly a nuanced treatment of personal morality, but I would argue that since God creates the very distinction between order and disorder, and good and evil, and defines them, then he is either "lawful" because he creates a system with consistent internal rules, or neutral because he allows chaos to exist within his creation alongside order.
Then there is the possibility that Chaos is just an order that one cannot fathom.
I don't think you can really say the Judaeo Christian God is Chaotic anything, he makes far too many rules.
>>46174428
Lawful evil illusion.
It ain't good, I'll say that much...
Came up with an idea based on some stuff about him, with the biggest sticking point being Hell.
Basically, an immortal being, who's consciousness expands the length of space and time, see's all and knows all including everything you will ever do, will throw you into a place of eternal torment if you fuck up in your dust-mite equivalent lifespan.
Seriously? ETERNAL torment? Nobody outside of an all powerful deity can even comprehend the idea of something lasting forever. At least not in any meaningful way, and that punishment being doled out for anything and every kind of sin from suicide to murder to rape to theft, or any of the really fuck-tarded sins that have been dreamed up by various religions is fucking BS on a stick.
Know what that is? That's a dad with three kids.
One steals his car, wraps it around a tree and walks away fine, and the dad takes out a leadpipe and smashes all of his teeth out.
The second kid was in the passenger seat next to the first, cause he was nervous and didn't want his bro to do something stupid, and is in the hospital on life support. After dad's done punishing his first son, he goes to the hospital and does the same thing to his second child even though he's still on an I.V. drip.
The third son? He stayed home, cause he had a test tomorrow. When he takes the test, he's upset about his siblings, but manages to get a 94/100. When the dad see's that his last son didn't get a perfect score, out comes the pipe.
The thing is though, the idea of "Eternal Hell" is appealing to people, because
A: We get a vindictive thrill, thinking that people we don't like are suffering forever.
B: There's a sense of Ego that comes from the idea of fucking up badly enough that the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE has to pay attention to YOU, even if it's just to say "Son, I am disappoint" before chucking you into the pit.
Yahweh/Biblical God is evil, and I frankly can't bring myself to believe otherwise.
Old testament god: LE
New testament god: LN
>>46174454
The father would be lawful neutral.
The son would be LG (never sinned, ever)
The Holy Spirit is CG.
>>46181380
Yahweh is that God.
>claims to be allmighty.
>gets rekt by iron wagons
>claims to be nice
>unless you walk less than 100 steps at sabbat, otherwise it's death for you
>>46181380
Pretty similar to my personal conclusions on the matter.
Human beings are just a means to an end for God, and his actions don't add up to those of a remotely benevolent being.
The faithful will try and say that God IS goodness, and whatever he wills is good, but if genesis is taken for true then we were cast out of paradise because we ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and by these allegedly mythologically dispensed faculties, many of us have handily deduced that God is evil, apparently by his own standard.
Hmm I'm not sure where I'm going with this.
Time to walk the dog.
>>46174428
True jerk
>>46174428
I'll be that fucker and bring a sourcebook into this mess.
>>46181417
This is about right senpai
>>46181150
>I don't think you can really say the Judaeo Christian God is Chaotic anything, he makes far too many rules.
But the point is that he is wholly inconsistent in his actions.
>You shall not kill
followed by
By the way, kill all these guys/I'm gonna kill all these guys/all these people deserve to die
is definitely chaotic.
He's murderous, random and has no compunctions about killing innocents, not even in the "for the greater good sense" but in the "well I'm mad now and I want to wreck shit" sense which is why he is pretty spot on chaotic evil.
He's inconsistent, cares for nothing except people doing what he says, and isn't afraid to do horrible shit when they don't.
>>46177777
Quints speak the truth.
>>46182207
>>46181417
>God intentionally sets people up to fail so he can punish them.
>Incredibly random and inconsistent.
>Makes rules he doesn't follow even a little bit, just wants to make people obey.
>Kill fucktons of innocents every time he gets cranky and decides to throw a tantrum.
>Totally plays favourites.
>Jesus says he's intentionally cryptic so that people won't get saved and will instead burn in hell.
>Jesus admonishes people for not murdering disobedient children.
>Lawful
>Neutral
>Good
Jesus fuck, did you guys learn everything about G and J through christian comicbooks or something?
>>46182352
>>46182445
did you get fiddled by a priest m8?
>>46174428
Seriously m80s, you're all getting caught.
>>46182445
Who are you quoting?
>>46182352
It's the problem of translation. Rsh is not a direct analogue for kill. That would be nkh (which also has other meanings).
Effectively, it is more like saying "do not kill unlawfully". Killing in war, or as punishment, do not fall under the term.
Also, as the one who created Cosmos by separating Chaos, he's kind of anti-Chaos. (Of course, this is the problem with D&D alignments)
>>46177033
>It's murder if I don't like it
Murder yourself plskthx
>>46182486
>>46182533
ITT: People who have never actually opened a Bible.
>>46182569
No, anon seriously.
>Jesus says he's intentionally cryptic so that people won't get saved and will instead burn in hell.
Gimme a citation on this that isn't from a noncanon or omitted work.
>>46177049
moshi moshi, baito desu
>>46182569
apocryphal texts are not in the bible tho
and having read it doesn't mean arriving to same conclusions as you did, or that your interpretation is the right one because it feels that way to you.
>>46174428
Just Lawful. Not Lawful Good, or Lawful Evil or even Lawful Neutral.
Just Lawful.
A very well done Chaotic Neutral
>>46182352
Thing is, his rule is "Thou shall not kill"
Not "I shall not kill".
They mostly begin with "Thou" come to think of it.
"Thou" pretty clearly means us.
Not him.
>>46175425
Come on, cut them some slack. That snake was like, the third person they ever met.
>>46184697
>Define good and evil
>Make beings that do not understand good and evil
>Leave knowledge of good and evil lying around in a delicious form where they can easily find it
>Tell them not to eat it
>Act surprised when a creature with no knowledge of good and evil does not understand the ramifications of it's actions
Biblical God is either a horrendously abusive parent or actually retarded.
Though if we're being fair he'd only been God for like, a little over a week at that point.
Haha, stupid God.
>>46174428
Lawful Good.
>>46174428
Is that what we are going to do today? We're gonna argue?
>>46185143
What else is it you think we do here?
>>46181380
Yeah, you could make Adolf Vlad Attila Genghis von Stalin in a lab and set him loose to commit atrocities that make all the other horrible things people did to each other in the past look tame, and they would still only inflict a FINITE amount of suffering, compared to an infinity of unrelenting torment, and yet people still defend God as being the "good" guy.
>>46179120
>Smelleth
Worth reading.
>>46174428
>What is the Biblical God's alignment?
New Testament? or Old Testament?
>>46182666
You would say that SATAN
>>46185848
Note that that is a heavily truncated version of the angry speech God gives at the end of the book of Job, with the addition of the phrase "did thy teach the gorilla warfare?"
>>46174428
Lawful right
>>46186096
Of course, Job ended with God basically going "no, you're right to complain when I do shitty things. Quick, have some new family and goods to make up for it."
>>46175425
You're forgetting that they had no way of knowing why not doing their job was bad (or even what "bad" meant)
>>46182657
>Matthew 13:10-15
For fucks sake it's not exactly an obscure passage if you've ever read it.
>>46182486
>>46182544
>>46184646
My point was that God is highly unpredictable and sometimes seemingly irrational, which is the definition of Chaotic. He does not follow any pattern or personal code, other than "Those people better not piss me off, or I'll make them pay, except they don't really know what pisses me off and have no way of predicting when I'm going to be nice and when I'm gonna be a giant angry child stomping on an anthill"
For something to fit the lawful alignment, they need to have some kind of structure to their actions, even if they're not law-abiding.
>>46174740
>Jesus
Solo PC in a 1 player 1 DM game
>>46174441
>Lawful evil.
Just because you're the one in charge, that doesn't make you lawful. Given the arbitrary and inconsistent nature of his actions, I'd say he's clearly CE, at least if we look at the Old Testament. In the New Testament, I think we see him transitioning towards Good, but there are still enough vestiges of the old god that he's probably Chaotic Neutral but with Good intentions.
>>46186427
Thing is, his creation contains law, chaos, good and evil, and he lays down laws, but doesn't always apply them consistently or fairly.
Neutrality on the law/chaos axis makes the most sense to me.
A truly chaotic god wouldn't even bother creating an order superfluous to it's own brute unquestionable supremacy, because it would have no need.
>>46186307
You mean how Jesus isn't speaking vague, but people just aren't getting what he's saying?
10 The disciples asked him, “Why do you use stories as illustrations when you speak to people?”
11 Jesus answered, “Knowledge about the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you. But it has not been given to the crowd. 12 Those who understand these mysteries will be given more knowledge, and they will excel in understanding them. However, some people don’t understand these mysteries. Even what they understand will be taken away from them. 13 This is why I speak to them this way. They see, but they’re blind. They hear, but they don’t listen. They don’t even try to understand. 14 So they make Isaiah’s prophecy come true:
‘You will hear clearly but never understand.
You will see clearly but never comprehend.
15 These people have become close-minded
and hard of hearing.
They have shut their eyes
so that their eyes never see.
Their ears never hear.
Their minds never understand.
>>46186096
Is Jobe one of the canon books?
Also, what was the decision progress of what was and wasn't a canon book?
>>46186877
Yeah, Job's canon.
And really it depended on the sect. The protestants basically go: "Does this seem like a legitimate document? Do other sects agree with it? Did the ancient Christians read it? Does it seem out of place with regards to its message?"
>>46186427
That makes him logical. It makes him a dick, but a logical one. It's the whole idea of him having a plan, it's just ineffable. Working in mysterious ways, etc.
Basically, the excuse every Lawful being has ever used to justify being a dick.
>>46186877
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea
>>46186427
>except they don't really know what pisses me off and have no way of predicting when I'm going to be nice and when I'm gonna be a giant angry child stomping on an anthill
Heres the thing though, the Christian God knows everything. He's omniscient, and as such, we really can't hope to comprehend his actions, because we simply don't know what he does. Do you know how to square the circle? I can garuntee that you don't, but I can also garuntee that God, if he exists and the christian depiction is correct, does know how to. He sees connections, facts, events, etc. that you never will, and as such his actions may appear irrational and inconsistent to you, but you and I are children judging the actions of adults. Just as a young child doesn't understand a result resents some of their parents rules, like say, you have to go to bed at a certian time, you resent the actions of God. That doesn't make the parent or God wrong, nor the child or you, but it just means that your level of knowledge and understanding is not at the level of a being that knows, according to the Christian depiction litteraly everything, and as such, you won't come to the same conclusions due to your lack of knowledge.
>>46187591
>Do you know how to square the circle?
Draw corners on it.Alternately, circle^2.
>implying that God is not above alignments
>implying your puny mind can comprehend what God is
It's like a fish trying to contemplate a human. Our brains are just too small to understand this shit.
>>46187703
No it's actually impossible as far as we can know because pi is a transcendental.
Also when I say trying to square the circle I'm reffering to a the challenge of constructing a square with the same area as a given circle by using only a finite number of steps with compass and straightedge.
>>46187591
>Insane Troll Logic
So, God is the original Trolling 4channer?
>>46187842
Would we have enough insight to understand God if if we hadeyes on the inside?
>>46187967
No.
We are just specs of dust compared to his raw power to influence the universe. By his will, you would be a human one second, then a fish the next. And then by his will you would of never existed.
God is alpha, he is omega, but his will we live and by his will we die. He rules the universe in absolute control and by that we are merely his puppets to play with.
Do not feel despair, for now you are on his good side and pray that you never feel his wraith.
>>46187952
I wouldn't charecterize it as that. It's more that God sees causes, effects and other factors we don't, and, unrestricted by any limits, is able to see all the connections between them and thus has alot more information to base His actions off of. Like I said, it's not that His actions don't make sense, but that we are inherently limited in our understanding of the universe amd as a results, our understanding of His actions
>>46187967
No. The human brain has limits, and God doesn't. Your basically asking if you can understand everything, and the obvious answer is no, of course not.
>>46188073
If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear, right?
Freedom is slavery.
>>46188161
Freedom leads to sin.
And sin has consequences.
>>46174428
depends on the edition
>>46188184
Freedom leads to virtue as well.
>>46188184
Your vision of god sounds like an asshole.
If he existed, he would exist in all moments and all timeframes.
That being so; he can suck juicily on my nuts across infinite realities.
>>46187911
Actually squaring the circle is a thing that's been deemed possible, the traditional problem was doing it with JUST a compass and straight edge and that has been proven to be impossible unless you either perform an infinite number of operations with the compass and straight edge or you perform a finite number of operations upon a non-euclidean surface, such as a sphere.
Obviously there is nothing stopping a person working out the area of a circle and then just making a square with the same area, but that's not the same thing as what is historically deemed to be "squaring a circle". And equally obviously, partial circles can be easily "squared" via calculus and integration.
>>46180802
I love it when people bring up the bear issue. It shows they don't even know the context of what was going on between the mob and Elisha.
>>46188161
God gives us free will, and then lays out his set of laws, but you don't have to follow them.
Techincally the Catholic church teaches that hell isn't necessarily a pit of fire and everlasting torture, but a complete seperation from God, and sinners are sent there because they act in such a way that clearly rejects God, His laws and everything He stands for, and as such they wouldn't be happy with Him forever.
Also the catholic church makes very clear that they do not know whether or not any human is in hell, and they admit that is 100% possible that only satan and the fallen angels are there.
>>46188313
The whole idea of hell and all that bullshit only really exists because of stupid heathens and infidels not being able to comprehend a religion where there is no eternal suffering and punishment for PeopleYouDon'tLike. That's why they had to reintroduce the idea, even though Christianity pretty much did away with it.
There's a huge difference between the actual theological discussion and held belief by the people studying and dissecting those writings, and the shit some dumbfuck preaches in a church in buttfuck-nowhere.
>>46188256
>Obviously there is nothing stopping a person working out the area of a circle and then just making a square with the same area, but that's not the same thing as what is historically deemed to be "squaring a circle"
Actually that's not true. You can only do this if you use an aproximation of Pi in order to get an approximation of the circles area. Because pi is transcendental it's impossible to do in a finite number of steps in euclidian geometry. You can do it with an aproximation of the area, an infinite number of steps or in non-Euclidian geometty, but none of those actually do it within the challenges constraints.
>>46188313
That's an interesting concept.
God does not want to see his children tortured so Hell is a separate room for them, away from him so they can be happy away from him.
It's kinda sad really. He works so hard for your love and you reject him. But he loves you so much he still wants to make you happy so he puts you in a place away from him, hoping that maybe you'll be happy there.
>>46188240
I think he'll just cast you into the lake of fire.
>>46174428
>applying dnd alignments to real life
Lawful good - according to himself.
It's good to be the guy writing the rules.
>>46185143
Same thing we do every day anon, have petty arguments about a nonsensical dnd alignments as applied to three dimensional beings
>>46188313
Free will intrinsically cannot exist if God is omniscient, which he is. Because God is omniscient, everything that happens is something he knows will happen. He knew everything that would happen even before he created Lucifer, before he created Adam, before he created the universe itself. He knew everyone who would be damned and everyone who would be saved from the get-go. It would be like assigning random values that could produce unpredictable results in a simulation, except you're so fucking smart you already know all possible results of the simulation so the randomized values don't mean a fucking thing.
>>46188454
Yep, God only wants whats best for us, and sometimes what's best for us and what will make us the most happy is not being with him.
God doesn't take joy in damning people to hell, He does it because it's what will make them the happiest. It's also the reason purgatory exists, because sometimes what is best for people and what will make them the happiest is a "time out" so to speak
>>46188529
>everything that happens is something he knows will happen
Here's a summary of the Catholic teaching on it:
Will is rational appetite. Man necessarily desires beatitude, but he can freely choose between different forms of it. Free will is simply this elective power. Infinite Good is not visible to the intellect in this life. There are always some drawbacks and deficiencies in every good presented to us. None of them exhausts our intellectual capacity of conceiving the good. Consequently, in deliberate volition, not one of them completely satiates or irresistibly entices the will. In this capability of the intellect for conceiving the universal lies the root of our freedom. But God possesses an infallible knowledge of man's future actions. How is this prevision possible, if man's future acts are not necessary? God does not exist in time. The future and the past are alike ever present to the eternal mind as a man gazing down from a lofty mountain takes in at one momentary glance all the objects which can be apprehended only through a lengthy series of successive experiences by travellers along the winding road beneath, in somewhat similar fashion the intuitive vision of God apprehends simultaneously what is future to us with all it contains
To sum it up, because God exists outside of time, he knows everything we can, will, have and are doing, but this doesn't negate our choice in what we do, God just also exists at the time after we make our choice.
Now, don't take my word as gosple as I am not a priest, and if you want a better explanation and/or conversation of this topic, I can almost garuntee that your local preist would be more than happy to indulge you. Teaching people about God is their job after all
>>46174454
As a catholic, this is actually fairly accurate
>>46188529
free will can't exist with or without an omniscient god, it's a meaningless concept.
but since god is omnipotent, he can in theory make it exist, even though it makes no sense, and even though it contradicts his omniscience. because omnipotence also makes no sense - but if we grant that god has the characteristic of omnipotence than he can do things which don't make sense, like give people free will.
if you limit his omnipotence by saying he can't do things which don't make sense, you might as well limit his omniscience first by saying he can't see the future.
>>46188576
Wait...Are you being ironic?
>>46188835
Nope, why would you think I was?
>>46188576
So kinda like this?
>>46188835
>eternal torment
>making people happy
Not that anon, but this is usually the bit that trips people up.
>>46189185
It's not eternal torment itself, it's a godless place.
I think that means eternal debauchery and all the good/bad things of a lawless place.
But that's the catholic in me, not that Anon
>>46174428
Vengeful Good
OR
Lawful Absolute
>>46189185
It's torment because you're away from gods presence apparently.
Which is torment for those who want it, but otherwise it's like a masochist in a dungeon.
>>46189149
Somewhat. Though I wouldn't agree with the logical conclusion of this, that all "devout" atheists go to hell because they don't belvie and thus wouldn't be happy with God, but instead that the people who go to hell, no matter what they believe, are those who love in such a way that they wouldn't be happy in heaven. God's law in turn is essentially Him telling us what the general code of conduct, expecations and such is for heaven and then Him saying "heaven is eternal peace happiness and all good, but if you feel you'd be happier doing the stuff I've banned because that's not what we do in heaven, there is a place for you, just be aware that it's filled with demons and the legions of darkness and is ruled by the father of lies, the prince of darkness and the master of evil, so I can't garuntee that you won't be tortued in this realm where you are completely divorced from me, so it probably won't be so great."
It's why I personally take issue with the depiction of heaven as a place where everyone only goes around singing psalms of praise. I personally think that you can do most of the stuff here, even stuff that would at face value seem to go against the idea of always happy all the time. Honestly I think perhaps, to use ignatian language, heaven still has sadness, anger, and the plethora of emotions that make us human and give us joy, but that in heaven one is never experiencing desolation, but is always in a state of constant consolation.
>>46189185
well, if they're committing to shitty debauchery and being awful in life, why wouldn't they wanna keep it up in death?
>>46181380
>believing in eternal damnation
>>46189185
>>eternal torment
God doens't torment them. He just complety divorces himself from them, because they have shown they don't want him. The torment idea comes from the fact that hell is home to all the fallen angels and demons, and people just assumed they would torture, because that's what demons do.
>>46189241
>>46189309
Maybe this is because I'm an Amerifat, but the version of hell that I've heard from most preachers is one where its all fire and torment and pain and no matter what it cannot be enjoyable. As in, no matter who or what you are, Hell will be the absolute worst thing that could happen to you. It wouldn't be a masochist in a dungeon, it'd be a masochist who is ignored forever, or a masochist who cannot ever feel pain or degradation no matter what they do.
>>46189348
So rather than being a dick ("fuck you, I will punish you now"), God is a doormat ("well okay, if that's what you want").
Why not, I don't know, actually work on helping people. Like, actually doing good.
>>46189504
God helps those who helps themselves.
>>46181380
Your analogy goes against bassically everything that defines the Christian God.
You know, the one that is repersented by the father of the prodigal son, who forgave the kid who took his fathers money, basically said "fuck you dad", then went and wasted it on everything the father wouldn't want the son to do, then comes crawling back to the father and asks for forgiveness, and not only does the father/God forgive him, he fucking throws a huge feast because the son returned.
God is all loving and only wants us to be happy.
Much like the older son in the aformentioned parable, God doesn't damn us, we instead choose to remain outside of the house.
God is always ready to accept us with open and loving arms, but we must choose to come to him, because he would never force himself on us.
>"God is beyond mortal comprehension"
>still assign it lower life concepts such as 'alignment' or 'sex'.
It's like asking what God's favorite food is.
>>46180642
It's like you've never heard of the Euthyphro dilemma....
>>46189552
>>46189589
Pizza, obviously.
>>46189504
He does. All the time. He's just doing it the right way, the way in which we don't know he did anything at all.
Moreover, God never wants to force us to do anything. He came to earth and literally told us "help eachother out, be good people" and set out a guideset for peace on earth and eternal happiness, but he won't force us to follow it.
Also, the catholic church, the extension of Gods work on earthinb4 triggered hereticsis the largest charity on earth. God is helping mankind, he just does it indirectly so as to preserve our free will.
>>46182544
>>46182544
Which highlights another flaw - dictates his law to men into a language that is intentionally vague and open to mistranslation when converting from that language to greek, then to latin then to English.
>>46184646
"Do as I say, not as I do" is a shitty rule though
>>46189727
Nigga, how do you want to do as the entire spectrum of imaginable and unimaginable things, including the spectrum itself, the paper it was written on and the dude that wrote it?
>>46189504
He does, but He's not gonna actively interfere with a choice YOU make. He gave you free will, He wants you to use it. If you use it to His purposes, then it's all to the good. Don't listen to that railroader Calvin.
>>46189637
That's all people helping people. Which is good. That's shit's the best. But end of the day it's people helping people while God doesn't do shit.
It always comes down to "maintaining free will" excuse, and that rustles my jimmies something fierce. Oh, it would be against free will to fix someone's brain chemistry, to both heal their mind and prevent them from causing more evil?
>>46189589
The organs. Because they smell nicer, so the priests burned them up for god.
>>46189494
That's because Sheol, the "hell" of the original Jewish belief, got merged with Gehenna.
You see, millennia ago, the Isrealites lived nearby the Canaanites (before the former destroyed the latter.) The Canaanites had a great many gods, including a bunch who liked sacrifices. Specifically human sacrifices. Even more specifically, child sacrifices. To be blunt, some Canaanites (and some apostate Israelites) sacrificed a bunch of kids by burning them to a god now remembered as Moloch.
These sacrifices took place in the valley of Hinnom (Ge Hinnom), just south of Jerusalem. Naturally, this place didn't get a good reputation, and so it became viewed as cursed, and being sent there meant having your body and soul destroyed by flames (by being sacrificed to an evil god)
So Gehenna, being a place of fire, got conflated with the idea of Sheol, the Greek Hades, the Outer Dark mentioned in the New Testament, and they all kind of merged together into Hell.
>>46189863
I don't know anon. Perhaps a priest or someone with equal knowledge in Catholic theology could put your concerns to rest, but I, being neither educated in this subject enough to answer your question in a manner that faithfuly repersents catholic teaching, nor being The Divine Itself and making no claims to be able to truly comprehend It, will just have to say, I don't know.
>>46189869
So basically instead of a place of fire, hell is a grey, misty place that kinda resembles England on a good day... Give me a sweater and a cozy cottage
>>46189185
The torment is brought on by you.
Imagine, for a second, having to face absolutely EVERY action you've ever made from a completely, absolutely, objective viewpoint. And I mean EVERYTHING.
Scared yet? Stay with me. Because, hypothetically, I have rejected an open-handed gift which would prevent me from having to own up to these actions, the actions now own -me-. I wanted to be left alone to be happy with myself, after all.
So, now, I am alone with my sins, forever. In a burning, raging torment as cold as ice and terrible as fire. Hell is a place of one's own making.
>>46190002
>So basically instead of a place of fire, hell is a grey, misty place that kinda resembles England on a good day
C.S. Lewis would pretty much agree.
>>46189832
"Don't smoke crack and murderbang hookers ok!"
"But, but you're doing that /right now/ while I'm talking to you?!?!"
"Ah, but that's because I am all-wise and all-powerful..."
Being a cosmic be-all-and-end-all is no excuse for being a douche
>>46189994
(The kicker is I too am Catholic - just one eminently, incredibly, infuriated by the fact that what I am told does not line up at all with what I have experienced and observed in life, much less when I actually think about those observations.)
Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a time.
>>46189863
>But end of the day it's people helping people while God doesn't do shit
Well, not really, It's acting indirectly. While God isn't actively helping people, as least as far as we can observe, though when discussing a being that exists outside of space and time and everything, not observing is usually what we're doing, God did set down the rules and teachings that cause those people to do those good things, and, through divinve creation or far more likely the process of evolution, gave us an intelect and mind that allows us to solve our problems ourselves.
So God is doing good, but he's doing it through us. If hitler is responsible for all the actrocies of WW2 (inb4 stormfags), marx responsible for the many failings of communisim and socialisim, and the founding fathers for the many effects of the USA, then God is responible for those good actions done in his name and because of his teachings, or at least as much as those men are for the actions we lay at their feet.
>>46190139
If you have the power to stop evil being done in your name (which an omnipotent God would), and do nothing, you are fucking responsible - that's called negligence. And that is allowing evil to continue and spread. Which in turn is evil itself.
>>46190002
Also, another fun fact about Sheol, is that it wasn't a place of punishment. Everyone ended up there, because it was where the dead went.
The idea of a heaven for the virtuous only came about around 500 BCE, and in my cynical opinion, it was there to be the reward to justify martyrdom.
The whole 70 virgins thing people mock suicide bombers for? The entire concept of heaven is the same thing, it's just that more people wanted in, so they had to make it less exclusive.Religion is fascinating, and sorry if I come across as mocking faith. I'm just trying to view it in a historical context.
>>46174428
I'd say Lawful Good by definition, beacuse He decides what is Evil and what is Good and He dictates the true Law.
Presuming you accept canonic axioms, oc.
>>46190109
all the stuff you observe isn't Gods fault, it's man's. God gives us the instructions on how to not do all that, but he doesn't make us do it.
He's trying to make the world a better place for us, but has to do it without basically making us into mindless automatons, because then those good actions don't matter.
If you do something we deem as good, but had no choice in the matter, you didn't do good, as ypu would be lackong a major part of the moral act: the intent. Without it, actions are neither good nor bad, they simply are.
A much more interesting quandry is that of whether God, if he is by nature all good, has free will.
Is it sad that /tg/ is having a better, more civil and informed disccusion on religion than /his/, the board where at least 50% of the threads are on religion, ever has?
>>46190334
Boards are never good at their lead topic. /tg/ sucks at tabletop games (Don't let any of the self-entitled grognards pretend otherwise), /v/ sucks at video games, etc.
>Trying to apply modern, humanistic values to God
Na
>>46190258
In this case I would be much more favorable to a hands-off deity. The system is set, the shop is locked up, and he's fucked off to places unknown.
The idea of a God simultaneously very close to humanity and likewise doing an amazingly shitty job at stopping the dumb apes from slaughter each other -
"I allow evil because I don't want to impinge on their freedom" is bullshit if a human uses it as an excuse, and infinitely more so if applied to God.
That is the equivalent of saying "Well ISIS is doing evil things but they're allowed to because of autonomy and so I'm not going to do anything about it." - And what do you get from that? Evil wins. Because everyone is fucking dead.
>>46174472
>Dungeon Meshi
Hm? What's that?
>Google it
>Eating dungeon monsters
So?I've played NetHack.
>>46190411
So what would you prefer?
Free will is a lie, everything that happens is part of his plan. You being depressed because you realized nothing you do is under your control was part of his plan too. Fuck you
Free will is real, all the evils of the world, all the good is all due to humanity. God is omnipotent, but loves us and as such will not exercise his omnipotence on us, what would be the point then?
see the Lego Movie
or to make this relevant to /tg, everyone hates a railroading DM, God is the ultimate sandbox DM.
>>46191821
I'd settle for hands-off "I ain't touchin' this shit, but it all works out well in the end because the metaphysics were designed that way".
Hell would be God's failure state - he failed at reaching every soul, and if that is the case, God is incompetent, and I'd prefer distant and competent than close and negligent.
>>46174428
radiant purple
>>46174428
Motherfucking pure evil. Some megalomaniac mass murdering God he was.
>>46189863
>>46190411
If you took away a persons capacity to do evil then any good that person would do wouldn't mean anything because they are unable to choose otherwise.
If free will exists and you are given a choice between two options some people will make the wrong choice, at least at first. If everyone immediately made the same choice then there's not much point to making one at all is there? Good can't exist without evil, it's a required side effect of the system. If God were to interfere directly then the choice ceases to have any meaning.
>>46189863
>fix someone's brain chemistry, to both heal their mind and prevent them from causing more evil?
For what purpose?
If they do evil, they'll get judged after they die. If they harm others, it inspires others to prevent evil. If they kill others, they were going to die eventually anyway. Why would he intervene?
>>46190187
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
/Evil Alignment Thread
>>46189589
God's favorite food is shawarma.
>>46189589
COMPLETELY HARAM
>>46186237
They knew they were not supposed to disobey God and then did so.
They knew enough.
>>46192627
>Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
This bits broken, you're making assumptions regarding how he deals with evil.
By the same argument, governments are technically able and wiling to prevent all crime by mass public surveillance and slapping the death penalty on even the most minor infractions. Is the government evil for not doing so? Would a good government be a totalitarian police state?
>>46190002
Not quite. Hell is being cut off from god, including all the stuff he gives humanity. Imagine being alone in an empty void for eternity.
>>46192874
>I am making assumptions
>Me, anon
>Not epicurus
>Not the guy who created the need for theodicy
>Not the guy who had religion by the balls trying to solve the problem of evil
Either god is omnipotent, omniscient and all that, or evil does not exist. I quote:
Another general criticism is that though a theodicy may harmonize God with the existence of evil, it does so at the cost of nullifying morality. This is because most theodicies assume that whatever evil there is exists because it is required for the sake of some greater good. But if an evil is necessary because it secures a greater good, then it appears we humans have no duty to prevent it, for in doing so we would also prevent the greater good for which the evil is required. Even worse, it seems that any action can be rationalized, as if one succeeds in performing it, then God has permitted it, and so it must be for the greater good.
>>46192874
And also, are you retarded?
Goverments are not God, they are not all powerful, all knowing, an all good and love. You cannot say "by the same argument" because a government is not god. A government can create a problem they can't solve, God cannot, and therefore logically there is no such thing as omnipotent btw.
>>46174441
> Be Enoch
>Chilling around on antediluvian Earth.
>Live 365 years.
>Defy death and metamorphose into divine entity.
>Now Metatron.
>Find out God is the boundless potential beyond creation filtered through ten sephirah.
>Realize that these are further dampened by the Sitra Ahra to allow for imperfect creations to exist.
>Now embody the transcendent nature of the divine and act as arbiter to a will that is alien beyond comprehension.
>Minuscule part of my being perceives angsty little faggot on the internet proclaim that God is evil.
MFW
>>46193363
Metatron is my angelfu
>>46189589
>what God's favorite food is
Beetles, duh.
>never bans eating them in any known religion
>covers the earth with a greater variety of them than any other animal
>made them plentiful as fuck
>full of all the nutrients you need
>variety of textures depending on how they're cooked and prepared
>incredible variety of chemistry leading to a nearly unending variety in tastes and colors.
>can't experience pain
>easy to catch and kill
God wants you to eat beetles.
>>46174428
DEPENDS ON THE BIBLE.
>>46192969
If you ascribe to his argument, you make the same assumptions he does. So yes, YOU are making assumptions.
>Either god is omnipotent, omniscient and all that, or evil does not exist.
I assume there' a "not" missing from the above, otherwise that statement makes no sense.
The problem theodicy is that it accepts the epicureans basic assumptions. By accepting them, they effectively reduce god to a simple machine with predictable actions. If god were that simplistic then we certainly shouldn't call him god.
>>46193062
They have a limited capacity, yes, but the binary logic of the epicurean argument dictates that their approach to evil should be equally black and white.
>>46192627
See the issue with that, like all versions of the Problem of Evil is that it assumes that an all loving God will seek to prevent any form of evil from happening. But that's like saying a parent must protect their child from any sort of hardship and make sure they never feel any form of hurt or pain. Such things are natural and important parts of life and things that every child needs to learn how to deal with. Just because God loves everyone doesn't mean he can't let evil exist, it just means that he wants us to do good and tries to guide us towards doing it. God can let evil exist because it serves some purpose or because the harm caused by it's existence is out weighed by free will and the capacity to do good that comes with it.
>>46192969
And this is just retarded. It's the same dumb reasoning idiots use to try and defend determinism and it falls apart to the same argument. If evil is necessary because it serves a greater good preventing evil could prevent a greater good in the future, or our actions could be the greater good that the evil was required for in the first place. We have no way of knowing so we might as well act as if it weren't true.
>>46192722
But they didn't, though. They may have known not to disobey, but they had no idea why they should listen to that. It's the difference between "don't drop the soap" and "don't drop the soap, you'll get buttraped". Without the knowledge of consequences they had no idea *why* disobedience would be wrong.
>>46193944
>They may have known not to disobey
So you agree.
>>46193716
There is only one Bible and Martin Luther King is his prophet.
>>46193637
I think this goes in the new new testament somewhere.
>>46174565
This. Over deities generally transcend alignment barriers.
Reminder that God loves humanity because he allows us the free will to chose to commit sin
he see's all, knows all and could stop us from doing anything we wanted but he allows us the choice to be immoral
>>46189552
>God doesn't damn us
Yeah, that's why both a monster who actually deserves punishment and the most kindhearted and selfless person ever whose only "sin" is disbelief would both be tortured for all eternity under your so-called loving and benevolent God. As other people in the thread have said, infinite punishment for finite crimes is infinitely more evil than any finite atrocities committed by humanity, because INFINITY.
>>46195371
>Yeah, that's why both a monster who actually deserves punishment and the most kindhearted and selfless person ever whose only "sin" is disbelief would both be tortured for all eternity under your so-called loving and benevolent God.
I like how people always say this but provide no source other than "muh old testament" which the New Testament straight up says "He was being retarded, pay no mind to it."
The only line of thinking this shit works with is Jews and Muzzies, so take your pick sandnigger.
>>46195450
My second point stands.
>>46188240
made me laugh
>all these edgy fedora tippers
Are you guys just false flagging Christians or you 12?
>>46195470
Not when I just pointed out that's not applicable to the New Testament, which is the most relevant work for Christianity. The Old Testament is for Judaism.
>>46195450
That shit doesn't work on Jews either. Jews don't believe in hell and generally don't give a shit about the afterlife at all. Fuck you don't even have to be Jewish to earn salvation, just follow a few simple universal rules and your goyim ass is as saved as any Jew's. And while I don't know much about Islam I'm pretty sure even the Muslims don't have the sort of afterlife you're describing. A lot of people's view of the Christian afterlife is pretty off. The fire and brimstone and eternal torture isn't in the bible, it's from pop culture, Dante's Inferno is a fucking fanfic complete with self insert. The actual hell is a lot different then what most people seem to think it is.
>>46196416
>Dante's Inferno is a fucking fanfic complete with self insert.
To be perfectly fair, said self-insert is meant to represent the audience and it was SUPPOSED to be shit-talking people, but it got taken at face value as an apt description for Hell.
>>46195371
This whole topic, it's like people forget satan exists in the first place, and considering he's got a significant amount of influence on the world which HAS had some effect, nothing bad is God's fault.
>>46195080
This philosophy makes for great parenting too.
>>46196416
>the actual hell
>actual hell
Anon, the bible is fiction.
>>46193928
>If evil is necessary because it serves a greater good preventing evil could prevent a greater good in the future, or our actions could be the greater good that the evil was required for in the first place
>God is not powerful enough to achieve this greater purpose without Evil existing, or is not willing to achieve this without Evil existing.
Try again.
>>46196416
>Dante's Inferno is a fucking fanfic
All religion is fanfic of earlier religions...
>>46181380
YHWH, the God of the Jewish bible, has no involvement with anything like eternal torment. That's a Christian invention.
>>46196576
Didn't God create Satan though? Isn't Satan "bad"?
>>46196826
>God is too weak or too malicious to brainwash people into being perpetually good, therefore he's weak or evil
muh epicures
>>46196991
>God is not powerful enough to prevent Evil without brainwashing people or removing free will
You're not very good at this whole "omnipotent" thing, are you?
>>46189703
Unless you believe that the only language it's meant to be read in is the original. Anyway, any half-decent translation will have the word as "murder" or something other than just plain "kill".
>>46188529
Or you could believe in compatibility, as (I think it was) Rabbi Hillel said: "All is known, but permission is given."
Or maybe it's weird quantum shit.
>>46197004
Your problem is that you are trying to use your own very limited understanding of logic to explain (away) something that transcends it.
If being omnipotent can mean creating paradoxes and mutually exclusive ideas then you can't use logic to prove evil or malice. You're undermining yourself when you try to force definition that will suit your narrative.
The original question in the OP is like asking what alignment is the DM or better yet the author(s) of the manual.
>>46197065
>implying higher tiers of logic can contradict lower tiers
Further, not having evil existing does not contradict free will.
Humans can't frumlkat, nor can we grauraptl, yet we still have "free will".
If evil/suffering did not exist, we couldn't choose to have it happen. Like when we "choosing" to get Alzheimers...
Nice goal-post move, by the way, I almost didn't notice it!
>>46193363
Pseudo-Qabbalist idolatry, pls go.
>>46193637
Judaism and (I think) Islam forbid eating insects (except certain locusts). Jainism is hyper-vegetarian and forbids eating anything that would kill the organism it's from. So that's two or three well-known ones off the bat.
>>46195371
>>46195450
Except Jews don't believe in damnation, or that disbelief is a sin. Not everybody's theology is like Protestants'.
>>46197144
>not having evil does not contradict free will
it certainly prevents you from choosing good and not choosing evil
>mixing up evil and suffering
I guess fire is evil too, since it burns.
>>46197370
>Humans can't frumlkat, nor can we grauraptl, yet we still have "free will".
At least pretend to read the posts you reply to...
A: Humans have free will
B: Humans can't choose to do things which can't be done.
Assuming both A and B are true, then not being able to do things which can't be done does not contradict free will.
Fire occurs, it does not act, it does not have morality.
An omnipotent creator of suffering as a result of being burned is evil, because it created needless suffering.
>>46197468
>Assuming both A and B are true, then not being able to do things which can't be done does not contradict free will.
So if a slave is unable to conceive notion of disobeying his master but otherwise allowed to do as he pleases is essentially free?
>getting burned by fire is needless suffering
you just want superpowers desu.
>>46197146
Your orthodoxy a shit.
>>46196975
Well, it depends on who you mean by Satan.
All the word actually means is Adversary. It's a title. And not one which implies evil.
The Adversary we see in Job, is an angel whose role is to test the faithful. He is more like a celestial lawyer. Basically pointing out that Job's faith comes from all his blessings, and that if they were taken away, so would his faith.
Other Satans are mentioned in the bible, such as David and Hadad the Elomite.
The idea of Satan being God's Adversary comes only from the Second Temple period; after the Jews picked up a whole bunch of things from their Babylonian conquerors.
Of course, if you want the real difference to God, you would be better off looking at The Deep. Tehom. The formless waters which existed before creation. It was the separation of these, that allowed the creation of the Cosmos, and it is here that the Deluge's waters came from, and where the Red Sea went when separated.
It is also a cognate for the Babylonian Tiamat, and the Greek Khaos. The formless Chaos that precedes creation.
>>46174428
All of them because he is the alpha and omega.
>>46174919
>Jesus
>Lawful
Yeah no. Have you heard anything from the Bible?
The guy went into a temple and started chewing out the peddlers and flipping their tables and chasing them with whips.
The guy went up to a fig tree when he was hungry, but turns out figs weren't in season so he cursed the fig tree, and his acolytes were so impressed by the intensity, they wrote it down between the stories of miracle healing and great wisdom.
When he was crucified, the common people were given a choice to pardon him or an unspecified Bandit/Anarchist/Thief (accounts vary), and there were like "FUCK that Jesus dude"
Everything Jesus ever did was trying to be a reformist.
>>46175159
Their alignments are all over the place, depending on which god you look at. For the most part, they're probably at least partial Neutral, just because non-christian pantheons tend to not pretend to be infallible and righteous, instead they're portrait as very able, and thus arrogant, but human in spirit.
>>46196617
Everyone agrees the bible is not fiction. If you pretend it is you're Fedora-kin
However, Hell was made up by the papal congregation at around 600 B.C. with the purpose of gaining political stability and forcing the plebs to stop being so fucking annoying and do what they're told.
>>46197116
Both are lawful Good unless the GM fudges rolls and then they'reEvil Incarnate
>>46198243
>The guy went into a temple and started chewing out the peddlers and flipping their tables and chasing them with whips.
This is an interesting story, because it also plays into the revolt/war of 66CE.
You see, Jews had to pay tax for the upkeep of the Jewish Temple (based on a passage in Exodus). This was equal to half a shekel.
Now, the coins used to pay the temple tax had to be of a certain purity, and at the time, there was only one coin pure enough to count, the Tyrian Shekel. (On the left)
Now, the Tyrian Shekel had stopped production before, but the Romans had given the Jewish teachers permission to mint the coins, but they had to maintain the same symbols and text to prove that they weren't giving the Jews too much autonomy.
Now, this presented a bit of a problem. See the figure on the left, wearing the laurel wreath?
This was a figure worshipped by the Phonecians as Melqart or Baal, and called by the Romans Hercules.
The Jews knew him better as Moloch and Beelzebub.
The teachers declared that the coins purity was more important than what was on it, but still, having to pay the temple tax in coins with Beelzebub on it didn't sit right.
With the revolt of 66, the Jews started minting their own coinage, without Beelzebub's face on it.
Now, what does this have to do with Jesus.
Well, most people wouldn't uses Tyrian shekels for other purposes, so they'd have to change regular currency into Shekels at the temple itself, hence the money changers.
So Jesus was also fucking pissed at people using money with a demonic figure on it. Hence chasing out the money changers.
(And why Jesus never touches the coin in the parable of the coin, why Peter is questioned by tax collectors over whether Jesus pays the tax, and why Judas Iscariot was paid in them)
>>46198296
It is fiction in a historical setting. And sometimes not even that. The Bible locates Saba in Africa instead of southern Arabia.
>>46198296
>papal congregation
>600 BC
Uh?
>>46175425
>God makes innocent humans
>Puts down Tree of Knowledge
>Tells them eating from tree is wrong
>Innocent humans do not understand right from wrong
>God's most influential servant influences them
>mfw God upset over humans doing wrong before understanding right from wrong
Philosophy can be nice, I guess.
>>46182027
Nothing like founding yourself in a predominantly Christian society and then writing source to pander to the people who are most likely to use that content.
>>46199077
I dunno, it's not like it was harsh to other religions of the area.
>>46187591
>Knows everything
>Knows that you couldn't possibly know even one one-millionth of everything
>Punishes you eternally anyway
