Did you guys like Necrons more when they were slaves of the C'tan instead of how the current version of the fluff is? I know I did.
>>46166119
No.
nah
>>46166119
I like the new blings, but not the new justifications.
Why coulnd't we have a middleground?
>>46166119
Nope.
Newcrons are shit. They took a lovecraftian ancient race of genocidal soulless machines and replaced it with egyptians in space, and just another threat on the eastern fringe. Newcrons aren't really very threatening, they do stupid shit like trade with humans, have "honor", and fight each other. What's even the point of making them machines?
What's even the point of the Necrons now? They used to be one of the grand players, the anti-warp made manifest and the great enemy of all organic life. Now...Now they have eccentric kings who do XD stuff in between their honorable dealings with Space Marines
There's a reason FW basically made their homebrew Necron Dynasty basically what Necrons were pre-5th E, because they actually wanted a threatening opponent.
Newcrons are the greatest abomination Ward ever did.
>>46166426
This. They used to feel like a real threat, even more so than the tyranids.
>>46166426
I disagree and also question your parentage and/or sexual orientation.
The whole
lets listen to the one surviving black box on this entire city of a space ship
>"OH FUCK WHAT THE FUCK GARBLE GARLE *sight*"
What the fuck happened here and where are the bodies?
Angle they were going for was already ruined before that and it took a lot of the rest of the mystery out with it. Instead of the new fluff that has most of the fluff boiling down to "Because crazy" it had "Old Ones/Necrons did it".
Which wouldn't be too bad if they just stuck to ineptly trying creeping horror to their own background fluff. But then they came out with
Eldar? Old Ones did it
Eldar gods? Old Ones did it
Chaos? Old Ones did it
Orks? Old Ones did it
Omnissiah? Necrons did it
Pariahs? Necrons did it
Cadian Pylons? Necrons did it
Ancient race of anti-Gods darkly alluded to in ancient eldar myths? Turns out its just Necrons
The unspeakable thing shunned by gods and man behind the Gates of Vaul? Necrons
Hrud? Old Ones did it
Jokearo? Old Ones did it
Which I have no problem with in and of itself. A war going on for so long that it's not even a war anymore. Both original participants are extinct and the war itself just carries on because its more a force of nature and so ingrained in the background that it just never occurs to the younger inheritors of the conflict to ask who started it, what it was over and how long its been going on for.
Shit could be alluded to but never stated.
But no.
Instead we just had a sort of cross between The Terminator and movie zombies and hamfisted attempts to make them sound super mysterious.
At least with the Saturday Morning Cartoon Villain Necrons they successfully made them Saturday Morning Cartoon Villains in all their 60s era Batman campy glory.
>>46166763
this.
The nids are the great soulless enemy. Necrons are pretty much guys doing campy stuff because they have grown tired of the galaktik conquest routine
>>46166119
no.
oldcrons were just boring.
>>46166119
>take something with no character and limited popularity
>give it character
>bad
I've seen more necron players since the newcron shit came out, and I personally don't mind it.
>>46166119
Nope.
Oldcrons were cool and all, but they also had little personality as a race. While running a silent horde of machines that never speak is cool, it's not cool when that's the ONLY option you have.
The whole, "nothing is explained, everything is shrouded in mystery" angle is perfectly fine and even really good when done for a small race that exists in a very specific location (like the Rak'Gol), but when the race starts popping up around the galaxy and making an impact with the major races, it's time for you to give some exposition and explain their origins a little more. They now act much more "reasonably" - the player can now justify certain decision in his army without completely raping the fluff (or having to completely invent new fluff about a major facet of the races existence out of his ass). You want silent, unending horde of Terminators? You can do that. You want a ruthless, absolutely evil millennia-old unkillable tyrant whose intellect is so alien to you you can't even comprehend it? You can do that. You want to do petty, squabbling kings carving out fiefdoms with slave-troops that may or may not be aware of their own existence and settling million-year-old grudges brought about by a slight breach in social etiquette? You can do that.
Oldcrons worked when Necrons were a minor and relatively unknown faction, but they've risen to prominencei.e. sold a bunch of modelsand as such need to be expanded upon to not cause confusion and uncertainty, and mitigate the chance of major conflicts between players who might come to radically different conclusions about vague details of the factions lore.Rak'Gol Codex when
>>46166817
>>46166763
I like to think of necrons as grumpy old men who want the kids to get off their lawn, except literally everything is their lawn.
>>46167053
I kinda think that necrons are alright with the kids as long as they don't poop all over the lawn
>>46167106
problem is, they do shit on the lawn, and chasing them off is less effort than greenstuffing their assholes shut
>>46167171
but they are old and don't want to get off the porch
The C'tan were the worst fucking part of necron lore. They were tacked-on as fuck in attempt to make necrons look deeper than they were. To call them lovecraftian is an insult to Lovecraft's works. (He's more than just spooky star ghost gods XDDDDDDD)
The newcron update added more options for players to enjoy than it removed from old lore. You can still use your army of emotionless copypasta silverspooks if you want, there's just other options now for people who wanted such. Most of the new kits are easily converted into oldcron kits, and the oldcron players generally don't have room to complain since they already have their old-styled models. Well, I guess you "lost" Wraiths, since the bug ones are large models now. (not that that they were often played before anyway.)
3e crons have tighter miniature design
5e crons have plastic immortals without the bendy gauss blaster supports
My problem with newcron fluff is mostly the same problem I have with a whole lot of new fluff, in that it just opens up a lot of inconsistencies for seemingly no reason. Like, honestly, what does having them use the Webway bring to the table. Shit's a pointless change.
>>46166668
It was a little tedious to have both, imo.
>>46167197
It's kind of like if they added an extra main chaos god who was clown and pony themed. It wouldn't remove Khorne or Nurgle or anything, but it still severely lessens the lore just by existing and being dogshit.
>>46167576
It also doubled up with Cegorah a little too much.
>>46167197
But yeah, this. I don't mind slavecrons, but having the C'Tan be at least as influential with the Chaos gods - out of nowhere - was annoying. They aren't anywhere near as likeable as the Chaos gods, and they really detracted from the Necrons themselves.
I'm glad they've been toned down and Necron lords made more important without also making Necron warriors less slavelike.
Though I do miss all the stuff about the AdMech being obsessed with the Necrons. I know it hasn't been retconned out completely, but it was fun fluff and there hasn't been any of it in a while.
>>46167222
>problem I have with a whole lot of new fluff, in that it just opens up a lot of inconsistencies for seemingly no reason
so its exactly like the old fluff then. 40k fluff was never consistent. There's just more of it now.
>>46167197
>emotionless copypasta silverspooks
Oldcrons were far from emotionless.
>>46167576It's funny how easily this exact argument could be turned around and used as a counterpoint to the claims that Oldcrons still exist and Newcrons only added, if one were inclined to do so.
I don't see how Oldcrons fill the same niche as tyranids. One is old, robotic, and slow. The other is new (to the galaxy), fast, and entirely biological.
Oldcrons also served as an anti chaos force that was more horrifying than chaos.
Now they are just metal fedora's, with an Egyptian fetish.
I really enjoyed the way the older codex was written. Piecing together the mystery of the necrons from scraps of rumor and artifacts, fragmentary reports, and all that. I find the new style of writing to be tiresome with how direct and cluttered it is.
Expanding the personally of Lords was a good move, but they became far too human and relatable. And the wacky zaniness got annoying quick.
Visually, I feel like it was a massive downgrade. The previous version was sleek and menacing, with just enough detail. Now everything is cluttered and noisy. The old green rods weren't the greatest, but a bit of sanding removed the gloss and made them nice and cloudy.
So the new version had some nice bits, but on the whole I'm not really a fan.
>>46166119
WE WUZ CHAOS ANDROIDS N' SHIT
>>46171932
JESUS FUCK, THAT FACE!
if they wanted to keep the necrons scary they should have just stuck with that GOD DAMN
>>46166904
Depending on what you're dealing with more personality is not necessarily better. Sometimes less is more, and a cosmic threat of unimaginable scale is far more scary when it's devoid of personality rather than the opposite.
>>46166119
>>46166817
>they have grown tired of the galaktik conquest routine
If you gonna pretend to like Newcron lore, then know their lore.
All Necrons, even Trazyn, are programmed to reconquer the galaxy. The issue is that all of them intercept the programming differently but their one goal i to restore their empire and enslave and destroy everything else.
nah, wish the gods were still alive however. Maybe they could of enslaved some of the necrons instead?
>>46172637
interpret*
>>46172660
I think it'd be cooler if the C'tan just became separate from the necrons in general, make their own personalized armies and such.
I bet the deceiver minions would have the shittiest grins imaginable.
>>46172726
an army of the Handsome Jack cult
>>46166426
>Lovecraftian
Nigga nothing in 40k is remotely Lovecraftian. It's like a child claiming he's superman because he's wearing the costume and tries to jump off the roof of his house and fly away. Oldcrons had little to nothing to do with Lovecraft, like all things in 40k were poorly written trash written by hack writers, only unlike newcrons utterly lacked any character and were nothing more than two dimensional pieces of cardboard a child could have created.
At least Newcrons, for their failings, are three dimensional characters with depth and motivation behind them that couldn't necessarily be created by a four year old child flipping through a thesaurus on synonyms of "doom". Oldcrons were flat as fuck and had zero artistic merit to them. They were just an excuse to bring back the Chaos Androids.
>>46172552
"Unimaginable" is just another word for lazy fucking writer who can't be bothered to actually write. People ape Lovecraft while forgetting that his literature was good because of his masterful and anachronistic purple prose coupled with cosmicism. The "lovecraft" people often rave about are just poorly described space monsters that again, a fucking child could write about with zero skill at all and are no achievement with the pen.
>>46166426
They were unfeeling, unknowable omnicidal killing machines -- and we ALREADY HAD THOSE. they're called tyrannids. At least now they actually have personality and character and can actually be "your dudes". Oldcrons could only work if they were the ONLY such threat, but they weren't, so they were redundant and now they aren't. simple as that.
>>46172902
people also forget that Lovecraft was terrible at least as often as he was great.
For all their flaws...I like Oldcrons better because spooky space horror robots just suits them better in my mind. That's just personal taste. I liked them as anti-tyranids, sort of, they both had similar goals in the destruction of all other life, but for the tyranids it was the unification of all life under the nid banner, whereas the necrons were about the annihilation of all life. Nids were loud, necrons were silent. Nids were a fast wave of terror, necrons a slow wall of doom.
>>46166119
I made my own fluff and it's better than those two.
Do you guys wanna hear it out?
>>46173286
That too. Lovecraft had lots of good poems. He also had a lot of terrible short stories full of so much xenophobia it'd make /pol/ blush coupled with just objectively bad grammar.
I bet Lovecraft would have been a far better artist had he taken opiates.
>>46173286
I think his great stories outweigh his bad on their merits. The stinkers are bad and there's a good damn few, but I kind of feel like 'who cares?' when we have At the Mountains of Madness, The Colour out of Space, The Call of Cthulhu and more.
And even when it was shit, there's at least one good nugget in the story.
>>46173305
Dude didn't need them if his night terrors were to be believed. They apparently provided much of his writing material, Dagon is one such story, the night gaunts are a night terror creation, too.
>>46173097
>unfeeling
They had feelings. Oldcrons were said to be hateful and they radiated an enjoyment in the slaughter they were committing. Oldcron lore had personlity and could talk (Xenology) but choose not to talk most of the time.
The "Metal Tyranids" crowd have to be the worst offenders in these kind of the threads because they always show complete lack of understanding of Tyranids.
If wanted personlity, then they should have expanded on the Oldcron rather than uproot them and replace them with a zany abomination.
> now they aren't. simple as that.
This does not follow. They are as "redundant" as they were before.
>>46173351
I'm thinking more that drugs would balance out the crazy with a more blissful state.
>>46173291
>they both had similar goals in the destruction of all other life,
Oldcrons did not desire the annihilation of all life. They sought to enslave it and harvest it like farmers for their C'tan masters for all eternity.
I like both.
>>46173456
lack of understanding of the Tyranids and Oldcrons*
>>46173496
You don't.
>>46166933
>Rak'Gol codex when
I hope never, honestly. I just don't think they deserve their own army, they're too minor a faction to really be a threat to the galaxy at large. Even the Tau are a bigger problem than they are, and that's saying something.
>>46173517
Why can't I?
>>46173305
It's still fucking hilarious he had a black cat in a story named Niggerman
>>46173525
According to the latest lore, the Tau have ascended to be a major power in the galaxy.
The Rak'Gol are just a minor race of pirates not so dissimilar to the dozens of hostile species that the Tau crushed.
>>46173533
Because nobody can be fair and balance.
>>46173551
Aren't the Rak'gol also purposefully mysterious so your Rogue Trader DM can come up with their origin?
Like the Tyrant Star in Dark Hershey's?
They'd never work with the tabletop.
>>46173536
Fun fact: it's based off a childhood cat he had, simply named Nigger.
Which was in 1890's/1900's Providence, and probably wasn't all that rare.
>>46166933
I'd like to read more about them. Afraid they'd be too similar to Tyranids for GW to make a full codex.
>>46166119
I like what the Newcrons bring to the table, but also appreciate what the Oldcrons represented. I also like that current fluff (as exhibited by the Forge World IA and references to C'tan roaming free of their shards) allows for both to still exist in the fluff. This is often overlooked by faggots like >>46166426.
>>46173551
>Tau have ascended to be a major power in the galaxy.
>The Third Cept is blockaded by a cordon of space on literal fire
>>46166426
Best 'crons were Sandy Mitchell's, and he wasn't even writing about them. They weren't nebulous, they weren't cunning, they didn't come up with retardedly convoluted plans that any random inquisitor could foil in an afternoon. They just woke up and killed. They disappear, and all you know is that they went somewhere to kill someone else.
>>46166933
This guy fucking gets it. Shit, even C'tan-enslaved Necron Dynasties still work since C'tan are known to break free of their shards and cause havoc. No reason to think they wouldn't get back to enslaving their favorite robots and fulfilling their grand plans immediately after regaining their freedom.
>>46166933
>You want silent, unending horde of Terminators? You can do that. You want a ruthless, absolutely evil millennia-old unkillable tyrant whose intellect is so alien to you you can't even comprehend it? You can do that. You want to do petty, squabbling kings carving out fiefdoms with slave-troops that may or may not be aware of their own existence and settling million-year-old grudges brought about by a slight breach in social etiquette? You can do that.
Where is the C'tan worshipping Necrons in the new fluff? If I can have anything, then why can I have those? The Newcron fluff keeps cockblocking the possiblity of that happening with each release. So stop being dishonest.
> absolutely evil millennia-old unkillable tyrant whose intellect is so alien to you you can't even comprehend it?
You can't.
The problem with the Newcrons is that they are too human. Maybe it was done to make them more sympathetic (oh Ward why?) or not, but anyone can comprehend what is in the intellect of Newcrons due to their humanity.
>>46173665
it is still much MUCH better than
>le ancient cosmic horror with doom robots.
Make your own fucking dynasty that thinks that the c'tan were the good guys all along and worship them.
>>46172726
Well, if my understanding of pic related is correct, originally (as in when they first made the transition from spoopy name to an actual thing in the setting, development-wise) the C'tan were pitched as a separate race before being merged with the Necrons, much like the Tau and Kroot.
Although apparently even before the merge, the C'tan were conceived as the Necrons' masters, so I'm not sure whether that meant they would have been separate armies entirely but with a fluff connection to each other, like how the various different Imperial armies have their own codexes and lists, or a single combined army featuring Necrons as footsoldiers but with more representation of the C'tan themselves, in a book literally called Codex: C'tan. The latter option would certainly have made the vampire parallels more obvious (not to mention that the final result ended up being derisively known as Codex: C'tan anyway).
I like the Maynarkh Dynasty because it strikes a middle ground between the two versions.
>>46173638
>>The Third Cept is blockaded by a cordon of space on literal fire
>Still have armies of hyper technological forces
>still producing technology at arapid rate.
>working on creating shielded ships that can travel through the fire. Already they are having some success albeit with high losses. It's a matter of time before they perfect the shields
>>46173657
>Shit, even C'tan-enslaved Necron Dynasties still work
Oh look the dishonesty rears its head.
Show me where in the lore that C'tan Shards have dominated dynasties. You can't. Not even small tomb worlds.
What do we know about the C'tan Shards?
-Most of them are feral and mindless
-They cannot take control over Necron technology (Anti-C'tan Protocols + the limited minds of the Shards).
-All C'tan break outs end with the C'tan fleeing to the stars or being recaptured or destroyed.
Even what few intelligent shards out there just destroyed the Necrons rather that enslave them. It had no interest in them other than breaking them apart before leaving.
>>46173638
>>46173683
>arguing with Carnac
Careful now.
>>46173707
I only wish they had a cooler color scheme. That orange is not my thing. If only they were purple instead...
>>46173286
I love how his very first story, the first one he ever wrote, ended with a triple exclamation point. That tickles me to no end.
>>46173759
>>Still have armies of hyper technological forces
>>still producing technology at arapid rate.
>>working on creating shielded ships that can travel through the fire. Already they are having some success albeit with high losses. It's a matter of time before they perfect the shields
>"just you wait gue'la once our ships get through, the imperium is fucked"
>>46173683
>Make your own fucking dynasty that thinks that the c'tan were the good guys all along and worship them.
Using fanfiction to solve the glaring issues with the writing of the lore shows how much of the lore sucks balls.
And it's not so much better. It's horrible catroony stuff. It could have been written much better and I cannot fathom how can any praise it so much.
>>46173790
>pic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6kSKMW2E_w
>>46173768
>Beware of him
>He is always right!
>>46173707
It's not a middle ground. They are Newcrons in every regard.
They got a Oldcrony feel because FW did not show you things from the Maynarkh perspective. If they did, then Maynarkh Necrons would be shown to be as zany as the rest of Necrons except more bloody.
>>46173551
Even if the latest lore says so, the Tau can only keep up with the other factions on sheer technological prowess and using heretical things like 'logic' and 'proper tactics'. I don't think that's a BAD thing, mind, but they're clearly still an underdog race. The Rak'Gol are a fantastic threat for a Rogue Trader, but not for an Imperial Navy fleet. One might be about as powerful than the other, but one of those has infinite resources, and it's not the Rogue Trader or Rak'Gol.
>>46173791
>entire point of the setting is to buy overpriced plastic miniatures and paint them in your favorite colors
The newer lore allows for the retard dynasty to exist. Think of them like the necron Tal'darim. So up their own asses that they think that they are the chosen ones of the gods and all necrons deserve to die.
>>46173790
It speaks more of the failure of the Imperium to have went to this extreme measure because they feared the Tau so much.
I mean 2 failed crusades against the Tau. Still waiting for 11 more.
Anyways most expedition forces are on the other side of the Fire Wall with the Farsight Enclave. If the Imperium starts get again, they will be sent packing again.
>>46166933
So basically you like Newcrons because they operate more like independent Chapters of Space Necrorines. And thats retarded. Oldcrons were a cold, disciplined menace Now they're just robotic Egyptian variations of the Chaos Space Marines. You got your Thousand Sons Oldcrons, you got your squabbling Newcron chapters doing infighting, you got not-Abaddon planning the next not-Black Crusade, its retarded.
>>46173825
>The newer lore allows for the retard dynasty to exist
It does not.
The C'tan shards as shown in the lore are incapable of taking over Necron dynasties thus it's just baseless fanfiction at the same level of female space marines.
>>46173847
The Imperium's problem is they're not taking the Tau seriously. The Tau crusades are fucking nothing compared to other large scale offensives in the past; and the region is so remote that it would be a waste of effort and resources to devote more when the Imperium is already besieged on all sides.
>>46173862
>The C'tan shards as shown in the lore are incapable of taking over Necron dynasties thus it's just baseless fanfiction at the same level of female space marines.
Ignoring the idea thta these necrons are just idiots who like the C'tan for some unfathomable reason.
>tfw they get all sad when they release a shard and it tries to kill them all
>>46173862
hence the willingly serve part
>>46173848
Which is still better than >le blank doom legions.
Again, Oldcrons could be written by a fucking child. Newcrons at least are no longer two dimensional cardboard cutouts of villains drawn up by hack writers. Newcrons can have actual motivation and depth to their actions. You're bitching that an objectively shit job at writing is superior to something that had at least some minor effort put into it. It's hilarious.
>>46173868
Actually, the First Damocles Crusade was said to be a massive crusade in recent lore.
Also the Second Damocles Crusade (Warzone Damocles) had been even larger. The war featured one of the largest tank battles in Imperial history.
The Imperim took the Tau seriously but still failed in their crusades.
>>46173903
Only by plot because GW's writers suck ass and can only justify the existence of the Tau by the other factions behaving like retards. The Second Crusade involved the Mechanicum simply forgetting to deploy their fucking titans. Or just orbitally bombarding the Tau position before sending in troops, as it's a Xenos world, they don't need to worry about recolonization as much and would have instantly decapitated the entire Tau Empire in one blow.
But of course the Tau live to fight another die at the cost of the intelligence of all the other factions. They really need to either be retconned into being a far larger xenos empire and far older, or retconned from existence entirely and the model range squatted.
>>46173882
>>46173876
Anti-C'tan protocols. Even before that, all Necrons in the lore hate the C'tan and have nothing to gain from serving them.
>>46173892
Actually, the zany and cartoony nature of the Necrons (the fucking 5th ED codex has "buahahaha" written in the rules) is indicative that Newcron lore has written by a child. There was no effort in the Newcrons other than poorly copypasting the Tomb Kings but forgetting to include what made the Tomb Kings awesome.
>>46173947
>The Second Crusade involved the Mechanicum simply forgetting to deploy their fucking titans.
Actually, the crusade titans couldn't be deployed because they were called back to fight other battles.
>Or just orbitally bombarding the Tau position before sending in troops
The Tau were dug in and orbital bombarded wouldn't have done much. They needed to draw the Tau out.
> Xenos world
It was an Imperial world. An important one because it acted as a Warp travel hub to the resource rich Dovat system. The Imperials wanted it back. Only when they were defeated did they consider blowing it up.
>>46173950
Okay, I'll bite, what made the Tomb Kings awesome?
>>46173950
I take it you haven't read anything about the Silent King then? The "lol xDDDD dem zany crons" is only in the main Codex. The Shield of Baal materials paint Szarekh as one of the few sane "men" in the galaxy, wishing to broker actual peace with the Imperium of Man because he's seen just how dangerous the Tyranids are. It's the Space Marines that behave emotional and irrational to him and his forces.
The modern Necrons aren't some retarded EEEEEEEEEEVUUULL for evil's sake faction, but rather an actual faction. They aren't good. They aren't bad. They're a broken race that cheated death at the cost of what made them Necrontyr and fractured into numerous warring states. Szarekh is the grieving king lamenting his actions done during the War in Heaven and wishes to raise his people from the ashes, reforge the Necron Empire, and bring order to the galaxy at any cost. But without being a genocidal maniac, but a reasonable ruler in contrast to the Emperor- as the Silent King doesn't wish to exterminate humanity, but make them into something like a vassal state.
Hell one could say that the modern Necrons are the true protagonists of Warhammer 40k.
>>46173995
>The Tau were dug in and orbital bombarded wouldn't have done much. They needed to draw the Tau out.
Bullshit. You can't dig in to resist an orbital bombardment of lance batteries capable of carving through continents.
>It was an Imperial world. An important one because it acted as a Warp travel hub to the resource rich Dovat system. The Imperials wanted it back. Only when they were defeated did they consider blowing it up.
It's Xenos held and deep in Xenos space, they aren't getting it back any time soon, and decapitating an entire xenos empire is an acceptable loss for causing a minor mass extinction event. You don't need to blow the planet up, simply bust through the ground they're currently standing on and create a couple new multi-kilometer wide pits into the mantle.
>>46174053
>I take it you haven't read anything about the Silent King then? The "lol xDDDD dem zany crons" is only in the main Codex. The Shield of Baal materials paint Szarekh as one of the few sane "men" in the galaxy, wishing to broker actual peace with the Imperium of Man because he's seen just how dangerous the Tyranids are. It's the Space Marines that behave emotional and irrational to him and his forces.
False.
You misreading the whole story. Typical really.
The Silent King was manipulating the Blood Angels. Maximizing their losses while lowering his. Dante was enrage at the end of war and swore revenge on the Silent King.
Also the Silent King never spoke at all except a single line to Dante. So we don't know how sane he is. As for the rest of the Newcrons with him? Have you read how fucking silly the Judicator Prime was? With his robotic speech in all caps?
>The modern Necrons aren't some retarded EEEEEEEEEEVUUULL for evil's sake faction, but rather an actual faction. They aren't good. They aren't bad. They're a broken race that cheated death at the cost of what made them Necrontyr and fractured into numerous warring states. Szarekh is the grieving king lamenting his actions done during the War in Heaven and wishes to raise his people from the ashes, reforge the Necron Empire, and bring order to the galaxy at any cost. But without being a genocidal maniac, but a reasonable ruler in contrast to the Emperor- as the Silent King doesn't wish to exterminate humanity, but make them into something like a vassal state.
They are cartoony villains and they are totally bad. You haven't processed the fluff well enough.
>as the Silent King doesn't wish to exterminate humanity, but make them into something like a vassal state.
Considering what we have seen in the World Engine, that's a fate worse than death.
>Hell one could say that the modern Necrons are the true protagonists of Warhammer 40k.
Wrong.
>>46174053
>I take it you haven't read anything about the Silent King then?
He's the biggest Newcron fan(boy) on the board. He reads anything and everything there is about them and is seemingly always the first to let /tg/ know about it.
Pic unrelated.
>>46174071
>It's Xenos held and deep in Xenos space,
Are we talking about Agrellan? Because it's not deep in Tau space. It's on the edge of the conflict. Look at the map. The Imperials wanted it back in one piece.
>>46174141
No, he is a Chaos fanboy.
>>46174046
Better written lore. A truly dignified race with a tragic past. They are not presented as silly or wacky but badass and majestic.
>>46174208
And then they got squatted.
What a world. What a world.
>>46174129
To put a mental image in your minds.
The Judicator Prime was speaking like (picture related).
>>46174177
I've heard if you show him this image he breaks out into hives.
>Bwhahaha!
Defend this, /tg/.
Tell is there any other faction in the setting has something as unprofessional as this in their codexes?!
>>46174177
Chaos, Necrons, Tau
...Space Wolves
>>46174243
Whoops, wrong image, same pose.
>>46174256
>taking 40k seriously
it was a losing game from the start, anon
>>46174292
Answer me.
If 40K was a parody, then why don't other factions have this kind of stuff in their rulebooks? I dare you to find something like this in a marine codex. You can't!
>>46174292
He's just trolling. Or a massive hypocrite. Or both.
>>46174311
I can forgive it since I don't take this frankly terrible setting seriously.Maybe Grimdark isn't compelling or fun?
>>46174339
If you don't like Grimdark, then you don't like 40K.
The setting stopped being parody since the days of Rogue Trader. So it's incredibly jarring when suddenly amid all the grim seriousness, that fucking thing happens. Fucking Ward.
>>46174256
>Defend this, /tg/.
The spark of a human soul, which makes it easier to understand the balance errors than the horrible, clinical messes of the later books.
What's hilarious is those rules were rather solid. 5e didn't have a whole lot to complain about beyond the lore.
>>46174378
>If you don't like Grimdark, then you don't like 40K.
That's a bit of a leap. I do enjoy 40k from time to time, I have fond nostalgia for the Ciaphas Books and I still enjoy a bit of fluff from it now and then, and the models still look cool.
I just don't care about it enough to throw a fit over a single line in a single codex, you autist.
Oh look this thread again
No, I did not.
>>46174390
No, it's not a leap. You called it a terrible setting and instead of glorying in the grimdarkness, you look at the bright spots and fawn about them. Utterly ignoring that these bright spots are meant only to enhance the grimdark instead of undermining it. I remove the 40K fanboy card from you. You disqualified henceforth, forthwith. Get out.
And it's not a bloody single line. The whole codex is plagued with such things.
He cannot predict Orks but does okay against daemons of Chaos who are UNREASON and ANARCHY incarnate. Daemons who are stated to be more chaotic than the Orks.
10/10 fluff and rule writing there, Mister Ward.
>>46174497
In the time before the great sleep, Nemesor Zahndrekh was a beacon of strength and discipline. His conduct was honourable, his tactical brilliance renowned, and his loyalty to the Sautekhi Phaeron absolute. Along with the looming figure of his ever-present Vargard, Obyron, the old Nemesor was a constant sight at the forefront of the Sautekh dynasty’s campaigns. The duo were much loved by the common soldiery, and the absolute terror of the separatists against whom they fought. Now, however, Zahndrekh’s mind is addled by damage wrought during the great sleep. The old Nemesor is trapped in the past like a fly in amber.
>Zahndrekh sees separatists where others see aliens, he insists upon strict adherence to the Triarch’s ancient codes of honour, and he maintains a cadre of four-score food tasters despite having consumed his last meal before Mankind discovered fire.
>Yet for all this, he is Imotekh’s greatest weapon against the menace of the Orks. Long have the greenskins confounded the Phaeron of the Sautekh dynasty, for how can one apply logical counter-measures to a race so impossible to predict? Time and again the Orks of the Charadon Empire have driven Imotekh to distraction, yet to Zahndrekh they are mere secessionists to be brought to heel. So it is that in recent years the Stormlord has left Zahndrekh to handle the greenskins that threaten his realm, a task at which the old Nemesor has singularly excelled.
Surprise, surprise. The mind addled overlord is the only guy capable of dealing with the Orks. Is it explained why? Nope. We just wrote it in because it's funny.
This is the low brow humor we are dealing with people. Wake up!
>>46174497
>Daemons who are stated to be more chaotic than the Orks.
>organize themselves into strict hierarchies and rigidly defined classes
>ideology and methodology similarly set in stone
chaos is predictable as fuck, ironically
Orks charge into melee despite being I2 and S3. You never know what those madmen will think up next.
>>46174536
>Wake up!
Truly he understands.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI8AMRbqY6w [embed]
>>46166933
>caring about fluff when you set up army
It's as if you don't play to win. Why do you play then.
>>46174543
Well, of course they charge, if they didn't they'd stay S3.
>>46166119
But...there still are groups of nectrons that are slaves of the C'Tan? Just play one of those armies.
>>46174603
>But...there still are groups of nectrons that are slaves of the C'Tan?
Oh really? Present a source.
>>46166119
I like the Oldcrons and aspects of the Newcrons. They really could've done a better job of blending the two. Don't know why they just binned the C'Tan like that.
>>46172726
newcron fluff suggeststhat some shards have managed to escape and taking back control, at least of local necron forces is do able.
on the TT just avoid taking an overlord, and have a trancendant shard as your warlord.
>>46174829
>newcron fluff suggeststhat some shards have managed to escape and taking back control
They suggested that shards can escape but there is nothing in the fluff that suggests that C'tan shards can take control of the Necrons. Stop lying.
>>46174856
necrons have been taken over before.
a tomb worlds maintenance AI did it (by just deleteing all the minds of the necrons it minded and them uploading AIs into their bodies).
no reason a ctan couldn't do something similar.
>>46174889
>no reason a ctan couldn't do something similar.
Every reason.
The C'tan are mostly mindless monsters and in Shield of Baal, it's stated that the Transcendent shard couldn't take over a piece of Necron technology and the stated reason was because it had a limited mind.
Furthermore, we have the Anti-C'tan Protocols (ACP, for short) that are engraved into all Necrons. Further furthermore, all instances of C'tan escaping has them wrecking the Necrons and departing without making any efforts to enslave them most likely because it would be a futile effort due to the ACP and the fact that they just can't.
C'tan controlling Necrons in the Newcron lore is fanfiction, with no support in the fluff.
>Alternate universe where the Tyranids got the newcron treatment instead of the Necrons
How would it go?
>>46175030
GW gets sued by Blizzard, and then TT gaming collapses.
>>46175030
Same level of butthurt, but since the Necron codex was never as weak in the firstplace we have mediocre 'crons and good 'nids instead of shitty 'nids and amazing 'crons.
As for fluffwise, as it goes now, nothing is different, as they're already starting on giving the hives personality. Swarmlord, anyone?
>>46175048
Swarmlord and every other Tyrant.
>>46175048
>Same level of butthurt,
What I would do for a mirror to that reality.
"They were just fleshy Necrons!"
"They were boring. No personality"
"Lawl Magpie nids"
>>46175077
>Tyranid Trazyn
The world's zaniest Lictor!
>>46175030
Genestealers are sudden;y removed and never spoken of again, seriously upsetting their fans.
Don't care about the fluff. I always homebrew.
I hate the newcron miniatures however. Just ugly and overdesigned.
>>46174602
>cunningly
>>46175048
but nids weren't weak prior to the necron rework. their 4th edition codex was the best they've ever had.
>>46173691
Deus Ex Mechanicus was such a sweet, short story.
And for the discussion, Newcrons are like all contemporary GW's worldbuilding: simply stupid. If the early Warhams was cheesy (and good for it) and the OldCrons tried a deadly serious approach (and they worked well, think of Pariahs) the Newcrons, despite what could have been adequate points, have been fucked by GW's writers being pretty much childish fanfiction writers.
Proof: everything they have published in the last 10 years, bar some exceptions or Forge World.
Oldcrons were better, because there was less stupid for them to fill and more void for YOU to fill.
Like the Horus Heresy.
>>46166426
Read Lovecraft for once and you'll know humans can fight back the horrors
Also that shit got boring it doesn't work for a playable race
>>46166119
Yes.
>>46166933
>Rak'Gol Codex when
Maybe as codex minor xeno races your main army can allied
>>46175323
>Rak'Gol
>Allyign
aren't rak'gol just idiotic fuckshitters who try and kill anyone?
>>46175169
>prior to the necron rework
I assume you mean when development began rather than the actual release of their codex, since the first nid Cruddex came out almost 2 years before Newcrons (though even then it was clear that the latter were on their way, and had been since at least the 5e rulebook).
>>46166119
I would like a mix of both. Basically old crones but they wrecked the C'tan and were filled with a deep loathing for all life, so they kept eradicating thembut I'm not a Necron player so I don't tend to involve myself
>>46174536
It's because Imotekh is too logically thinking while Zahndrekh’s is more "human" so is able to adept to the random of orks better than Imotekh
>>46175333
Yeah lime I said maybe kinda
>>46166119
I liked them better, but I was 15 at the time, so my opinions on one-dimensional edgy schlock was suspect at best.
By the time Newcrons were released, I had enough taste to realize it was an improvement.
>>46175333
Well, psychotic shitfuckers who try and kill anyone, totally unreasonable, and impossible to negotiate with.
Idiotic might be a bit of a stretch because they've sure as fuck demonstrated the crazy aggressive approach works for them.
All these idiots complaining that newcrons "hurr not scurry no moar" have no fucking imagination, which is ironic considering that pretty much everything about oldcrons had to be filled in with imagination.
Arcane, alien intelligences, older than you can comprehend, rise from the grave to conquer the galaxy once more. They ruled the stars when your ancestors walked on four legs, and two separate pantheons of gods were unable to stop them. You may think them to be allies against greater evils, but they laugh at your feeble ideas of alliance, and have you dancing on their strings. Every living thing in the galaxy has been living in borrowed time, and that time is now up. The very world you live on will turn against you as uncountable, silent, silver legions rise up from the earth to coldly and meticulously scour your race from existence. They cannot be killed, and they cannot be reasoned with. The laws of reality bend and break at their whims, and even the mighty gods of the warp hold no power over them.
>>46176734
>>46173300
>my own fluff
No anon. I don't want to read your fanfiction.
>>46176734
>They cannot be killed
They can be killed.
> and they cannot be reasoned with.
They can be reasoned.
In fact, Orikan's prophecy demands that the Necrons start allying with the lesser races to buy time for the rising Necron dynasties.
>and even the mighty gods of the warp hold no power over them.
They fall victims to Chaos nearly the same as everyone else.
The problem with the Newcrons is that we read the codexes and read the novels. We know that they are humans and in no way alien. We know what they fear and what they desire. We saw their pain and joy. All of it is too human. I do not fear humans and thus I do not fear Necrons. I don't fear them anymore than a Chaos Lord or Imperial officer
>>46176746
We're talking about 40k, for chrissake, is there anything that isn't edgy?
>>46176816
Your issue is that you're using the perspective of "someone playing Warhammer 40K" instead of an in-universe perspective. If you're reading the fucking codex of course you know all of the failings and vulnerabilities of a faction or individual. Necrons are scary because they're implacable robotic death-machines, not because they save on 3+.
Next you'll say, "Why should anyone worship the Emperor, he had doubts and failings lmao just a human."
>>46176909
Except that Orks, nids, and even Eldar (when done right) codexes and novels paint them as strange and inhuman for the outside viewer. Necron material? Not so much. So there is a failing in the writing.
I am not interested in roleplaying as a guy in the setting. I am here to enjoy the read fluff and from my point of view the "personality" of the Necrons is way too human. Fix it plox, GW, or don't show it.
>>46177015
>Eldar (when done right)
I love when the Eldar are portrayed nice and alien.ESPECIALLY when it's the Craftworld Eldar.
>>46177015
I wouldn't mind examples of how vastly superior the Ork and Eldar codexes are in portraying the races as alien. If we're going to be pedantic enough to say that Necrons are just metal humans, I'll argue that Eldar are just asshole humans, and Orks are just humans that can't spell.
The nids are a given. I should hope that they'd be able to portray a hive-mind swarm race as inhuman.
>>46177111
>I wouldn't mind examples of how vastly superior the Ork and Eldar codexes are in portraying the races as alien.
The beginning of the Ork codex. How the Ork perceive their pain and the pain of others. Just a sec. Imma copypasta it.
>>46177132
>Orkoid physique itself is so robust that it can withstand tremendous punishment. They feel surprisingly little pain, even from the most grievous of wounds, enabling them to fight on whilst horrifically injured and even for a short while after being technically dead. It is believed by some who study these brutes, albeit from afar, that this goes some way to explaining the greenskins’ ultra-violent sense of humour. As pain and fear mean little to them, they are highly curious and amused by the reactions of their weaker foes as they hack them apart, the screams of terror contrasting with a deep throaty rumbling that, on occasion, could be mistaken for laughter from the Orks and their snickering brethren.
>>46166119
The old necron lore was way cooler, they were a lot scarier, but I can understand that they wanted to make the faction more relatable, we already have the tyranids as the impersonal alien menace.
It's a shame they just went with goofy space tomb kings though.
>>46177167
>THE SIMPLE LIFE
>One of the greatest strengths the Orks possess is the simplicity with which they approach their existence. For an Ork, the universe is an incredibly straightforward place, free of the angst and worry that plagues most other races. Orks don’t try to influence their own destiny and get frustrated when plans don’t work out as expected. They don’t look for something to blame (except perhaps the nearest Gretchin or a hated rival tribe) and certainly do not reflect on weaknesses in their own way of doing things. They just try again a different way, usually because they have forgotten how they did it the last time. Thus the Orks make remarkable progress by trial and error, without counting the cost. Meanwhile other races steeped in high-flown philosophy fall into the same traps time and again, doomed to stagnate and decline, unless of course they are first conquered by the Orks.
>So long as the average Ork has someone to fight, someone bigger than him to tell him who to kill next, and someone smaller than him to beat up, he will know contentment. Orks don’t tend to go hungry as they can eat virtually anything, even grots, Snotlings or one another at a pinch. Greenskins have no concept of cannibalism or the moral outrage that accompanies it, as it is only natural that the bigger Orks should live at the cost of those weaker than themselves. With war and killing as their only real motivators, most Orks have little interest in gathering material wealth or luxuries. The one exception to this is a desire to possess ever bigger and louder weapons and vehicles. An Ork will go to almost any lengths to get his hands on a louder shoota or faster buggy. He will obsess over its acquisition until the exact moment he has it, at which point his eye will stray to something even bigger...
>>46177213
>In greenskin society, teeth are used as money and form the entire basis of the Ork economy. The teeth, or ‘teef’, must be big, sharp, ivory-like fangs to have any value – those of races such as humans or the Eldar are just too fiddly and pathetic to have any real worth. The Orks have used teeth as money since time immemorial. It is a natural form of currency, which is particularly useful as Orks shed and replace their teeth every few years. This means that the number of teeth in circulation never diminishes enough to create a shortage, and that no individual Ork can be reduced to dire poverty for too long. This simple approach to an issue most civilisations agonise about is typical of the pragmatic attitude of the Ork race.
The codex does well to portray a strange and fantastical alien culture whose character personalities reflect this culture.
The Newcron codex, on the hand, does a poor job at it. They are too human. It' probably because they are based on the Tomb Kings who are in fact a human culture.
>>46175095
Actually I think it'd be the opposite. To humanize them the aspect of Tyranids as a massive alien threat would be reduced to them being more like pilgrims from a dead Galaxy some of which do so by fucking themselves into Imperial populations with Hive fleets as another faction taking planets by force and terraforming them to suit their alien biology, not for biomass.
They'd be bionecrons with a persecution complex.
>>46177240
This seems quite easy to do for Orks, while I imagine the far more humanlike Eldar are not nearly as defined.
Though I concede that newcrons are a bit shallow, though one should take into consideration that they are in essence two editions old.
I feel like more effort into portraying Necrons as inscrutable alien overlords would go a long way. I very much like the "B-Movie Alien Invader" aesthetic their recent models have been pushing, what with the flying saucers (Doom Scythes), Martian tripod walkers (Triarch Stalkers) and literal Heat/Death Rays. They can still be campy, but preferably when comitting atrocities for their own amusement or vanity (Trayzn is good at this).
>>46166763
This, baby.
I love how the Necrons are the only probably natural race to survive as long as they did.
They're the only faction that isn't totally bound to a mantra, a set of ideals or some God.
They're the only ones to have almost total control of the galaxy and to inconsistently care enough to not blow everything to shit
>>46166119
As someone who used to love Necrons because of their old fluff, yes.
Everything cool that was added to newcrons was perfectly compatible with oldcrons fluff. That change was not necessary.
>muh independent necron heroes
C'tans gave necron lords free will and slaved the rest. Both C'tans and necron lords were assholes. C'tans still sleeping and Lords are in charge of the great plan.
>C'tans were too OP and a treat for humanity
C'tans can't go outside because warp current status. C'tan fragments are a 1/1000 part of the real C'tan.
The void Dragon is in mars. Until the imperium of man still existing, no great plan.
>>46177373
>a set of ideals
They are literally slaved by their protocols and traditions. Also the last command of the Silent King which compels them to seek to reconquer the galaxy and restore their empire.
>>46166119
Yeah.
Also wish they'd have kept the egyptian stuff more subtle. Evil is one thing, so 'evil' you keep a zoo and have shark tanks in your secret lair is stupid though.
>>46173815
DESU I don't mind the Tau being a "major" power if they still have to fight uphill both ways on a truly galactic scale to hold that title. They should still be underdogs regardless.
>>46173947
>tau models selling like hotcakes
>one of the most popular armies on TT
>have been around far longer than squats existed at this point
Pls anon
>>46166119
Yes. Just like old grey knights, Oldcrons were a complete mystery. I loved all the speculation these space terminators always prompted. Old fluff was definitely better than space egyptians who want your body.
Newcrons fluff changes were Grey Knights 5e tier. Gameplay changes were great though.
>>46175030
People would ignore that they copied off the Zerg twice because muh GW loyalty
>b-but the zerg copied the tyranids you idiot
Current tyranid aesthetics were heavily inspired by the Zerg after SC1 released, before they looked like goofy aliens and not at all threatening
>>46177451
Not all of the Necrons. There's diversity and disobedience now. Some didn't give protocols or outright disobey their social superiors.
Directly compared I prefer oldcrons, however narativistically they were redundant with tyranids, you only need one inscrutable cosmic horror army, so when you take the setting as a whole I prefer newcrons
>>46177918
>Some didn't give protocols or outright disobey their social superiors.
Wrong.
Necrons are slaved to the protocols. However, there isn't anything in the proocols about obeying your ruler. There is however protocols and rules that must be followed to usurp your ruler. That's why Necron coups and plots are always scripted and repeat in the same manner.
>>46178535
I like how the Necrons mere existence is a giant middle finger to Chaos.
>>46178535
They're talking about their social etiquette there.
>>46178535
>>46178604
Yeah, how I'm reading it, Necron court intrigue is more like an elaborate, pre-determined performance, according to their customs. Sort of like pro wrestling.
>>46178575
This is why they're my favorite. They want to give the biggest douchebags in the setting a middle finger so huge, that it'll kill every sapient being in the galaxy. Awesome.
Watch out, original Newcron coming through.
>>46178652
Yeah. You could argue that their back stabbing, deceitful, undermining and archaic system is hardwired and protocol but I'd call you a jackass for it
>>46166119
I adore the Newcrons.
I love personality in every overlord and the infighting between dynasties.
It presents a good reason for why they don't attack everything in sight instead the old cop-outs:
>Their methods are incomprehensible to us
>Most of them are still asleep
And the best part is that if you preferred the oldcrons, you can still have them. The change only added to the Necrons and only took away the C'tan's power and influence.
>>46178761
>And the best part is that if you preferred the oldcrons, you can still have them. The change only added to the Necrons and only took away the C'tan's power and influence.
Like it was pointed out in the thread consistently, it's impossible to have Oldcrons in the new fluff without going into fanfiction territory. You cannot have a real Oldcron army slaved to the C'tan in the new lore. So those who preferred Oldcrons got screwed.
And that makes you a liar.
>>46178604
Which comes in the form of protocols and also in the form of traditions that the Necrons have to follow.
>>46178740
What's hardwired in them are the protocols that regulate this behavior.
For example, when a Necron Lord usurped his Overlord by tricking him into activating a pokeball, he had to ask the Judicator if he done it correctly in a way that fit the rules. The Judicator nodded and approved
>>46179060
Beautiful instance but still doesn't apply for all
>>46178937
First of all, getting heated there?
But seriously, It's not "fanfiction-tier" in the slightest, necrons are still robots with programming, following the whispers of the C'tan could be in their base protocols, or they could be idiots.
Granted I think the shards is just a dumb idea, but I never thought the C'tan were fleshed out that well to begin with.
>Mindless space entities that somehow have distinct personalities and directly influence an entire race of people.
>>46179094
Yes, it applies to all. Even the mad AI of Sarkon follows Necron protocols.
But that besides the point, you claiming that disobedience of higher ups is against the protocols is false. Necron political strife is okay'ed as long as it's within the protocols set by the Triarch. This is why Necron coups have always in a scripted and predicable manner.
>>46179159
Is this the same guy who said a Necron army was un-fluffy if it didn't use the Decurion?
>>46179117
>First of all, getting heated there?
When people skip the thread the whole thread to say a same crap over and over, it gets tiresome.
>necrons are still robots with programming, following the whispers of the C'tan could be in their base protocols, or they could be idiots.
And we have a major issue here. Few actually read the Newcron lore.
The C'tan did not program the Necrons. They did not build them. The Necrons were loyal only to the Silent King and his command protocols. The Necrons were all programmed with Anti-C'tan protocols that protect them from the C'tan. Furthermore....you know what I just don't want to repeat myself.
>>46179206
Yep.
By the way, if trapping your Overlord in a pokeball and killing his vessels is not against Necron law, then reprogramming an entire dynasty to serve you does not go against it.
>>46179212
>...I just don't want to repeat myself.
Stop acting childish and finish your statement, this is an imageboard, not a face-to-face conversation.
As for the Silent Kings protocols, it's been seen many times that the necrons can malfunction. The Silent King remains at the core of their programming, but perhaps certain lines of code were corrupted? Leading to a situation where faulty logic favors the C'tan, and they start worshipping them.
>>46178937
How much of an autistic consumerist slave are you, if you can't even choose to just go with something that used to be canon?
I mean, and I hope this is not news to you, but all of W40k (except the TT mechanics themselves) is a game of pretend.
>>46179367
>is a game of pretend.
ITS REAL IN MY MIND
>>46179327
>Stop acting childish and finish your statement, this is an imageboard, not a face-to-face conversation.
No, read the thread like an adult.
>As for the Silent Kings protocols, it's been seen many times that the necrons can malfunction. The Silent King remains at the core of their programming, but perhaps certain lines of code were corrupted? Leading to a situation where faulty logic favors the C'tan, and they start worshipping them.
Perhaps. What if. Translates to fanfiction. Fanfiction spawned from poor understanding of Necron lore. The errors of the Great Sleep that affected the personality of the Necrons are the intensifying existing character traits and things, erasing their memory, or transforming them into the Destroyers. Even in their madness, Necrons continue to follow their cultures protocols.
What the fluff actually says? The C'tan are incapable of controlling the Necrons.
>>46166119
I liked the C'tans before, but I like the necrons more now.
I wish they had made a mix.
>>46179367
I hope you follow that line of reasoning during the next "Female Space Marine" thread.
>>46179416
I have in fact read the thread, but there is no reason you should just cut off your thoughts because, "ugh, I just don't want to...how dare...ugh...." Speak your mind.
Now regarding the fluff, like others said previously in the thread, and above me now, you don't have to adhere 100% to the current canon, 40k is based around that. Black Library constantly conflicts itself, and there are many different ways to look at the fluff.
Take Draigo for example, he is heavily implied to be tainted by Slaanesh, which explains his crazy antics in the warp that were never retconned. But it is never outright said that he is tainted, leaving the matter up to the audience to interpret.
>>46179540
>I have in fact read the thread, but there is no reason you should just cut off your thoughts because, "ugh, I just don't want to...how dare...ugh...." Speak your mind.
No, you did not.
or else you wouldn't have made your initial post. More lies.
>Now regarding the fluff, like others said previously in the thread, and above me now, you don't have to adhere 100% to the current canon, 40k is based around that. Black Library constantly conflicts itself, and there are many different ways to look at the fluff.
Newcron lore has been consistent and the C'tan have been consistently shown to be unable to influence the Necrons. Again you show poor grasp on the fluff you claim to like. Disgusting.
> 40k is based around that.
Bullshit.
Authors state that GW's canon is the only thing that goes into consideration when making the story of the setting. You know what that means? My type of Necrons won't get content in any form while you guys can have it all. You selfish bastards.
>Take Draigo for example, he is heavily implied to be tainted by Slaanesh, which explains his crazy antics in the warp that were never retconned. But it is never outright said that he is tainted, leaving the matter up to the audience to interpret.
Bullshit.
The story about the silver knight comes from the same codex that states that no Grey Knight has fallen. Thus the Silver Knight is not Draigo.
Furthermore, the 7th ED GA codex states Draigo cannot be corrupted or defeated by any daemon or god.
There is implication here. It was just a bait for the players to story things up and you fell for it.
From all of this we can establish that Newcron fans
A) Don't know much about their lore.
B) Are selfish cretins
Despite not being immersed in the fluff, they want all the content for themselves. When Oldcron fans ask for GW to throw them a bone at least in the form of a single fluff mention to justify their armies, Newcron fans yell at them to go to the fanfiction corner and rot there.
Deplorable, utterly deplorable.
>>46174602
Nigga's dead
>>46175148
>>46180024
>Being ill-informed about the capabilities of His holy Adeptus Astartes
http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/2011/6/moviemarines-01194024.pdf
>>46166119
Honestly I didn't know anything about them originally. I played against them in Dawn of War.
I could, and can still, never play as anything but Spess Muhreens, but they were my favorite race to fight against.
>That cool aesthetic.
To me they were like a Egyptian zombie Terminator-Borg versions of the Golden Army from Hellboy.
And The way they kept getting back up was unnerving
>Ancient and forgotten.
They are older than the Eldar, who remember these fucks with terror. Their ultimate enemy who suddenly vanished without a trace before the Eldar conquered the galaxy.
>They creepy noises they made.
The fact that they didn't talk was SO cool to me. That made them feel totally alien. They couldn't be communicated with, bargained with, you couldn't ask for mercy, or build a relationship or trade. Those concepts might not even exist to them. Their goals were beyond me. Not so smart I couldn't understand; but so different and intranslatable that I couldn't really grasp it.
Later the more I heard; the less I liked. Oldcron and Newcron alike. mute slaves and a bargain gone wrong. Oh so they were tricked into doing something stupid and they don't like what they are? That's dumb
Or - They talk and have exactly the same goal as everyone else. And they can complain? Why?
They have factions with their own individual indentities that don't always agree. My enemy is going to be infighting? That kinda' makes them less scary.
(At least with Tyranids it was about proving which adaptations were stronger and then absorbing the biomass. I never felt like there was personal animosity between tendrils)
I could EMPATHIZE with them which took away all fear and loathing
If they had left them mysterious and with unknown endgame goals I think I would have ended up buying THEM instead of my first Space Marines.
>>46166119
>Did you guys like Necrons more when they were slaves of the C'tan instead of how the current version of the fluff is? I know I did.
yes.
>>46166119
Can still run them as Ctan slaves, some newcrons are. Some are free, some are slaves to their lords, some are destroyers. More flavour
>>46179442
I could not give less if a shit if someone else tried to play female space marines. Use SoB models and space marine lists. That's ok. On the table.
When talking about the fluff and whats canon or not it's a different thing. I agree.
But insisting on not using some part of your army that you really want to use because you have a hangup on some fluff written by a guy that is not the same as some other fluff by another guy working for the same company... That's just stupid.
>>46174543
>WS4
>T4
>3 attack base, 4 on the charge
>S 4 on the charge
Costs what 6 points? Theyre fucking incredible in CC for their points
>>46180711
>But insisting on not using some part of your army that you really want to use because you have a hangup on some fluff written by a guy that is not the same as some other fluff by another guy working for the same company... That's just stupid.
I use what I want for my army. What I want is content and justification for my army which apparently I will never get because Newcron fans just want everything to be about them.
As the fluff currently stands, my army is as non-fluffy as a female space marines.
>>46179776
the most delicious part of this is the situation was exactly the opposite pre-newcron, with people who wanted independant necrons getting told to go to the fanfiction corner.
How sweet it is when the shoe is on the other foot.
>>46178652
WHAT'CHA GONNA DO WHEN THE TRAZYNMANIA RUNS WILD ON YOU!?
>>46179776
>When Oldcron fans ask for GW to throw them a bone at least in the form of a single fluff mention to justify their armies
Nice job completely ignoring the Maynarkh Dynasty, which was specifically created to emulate the oldcron style retard. How about taking a look at the fluff yourself before making half-assed insults when its clear you don't know shit yourself?
>>46180887
As a guy who has been on this board for a long while? This never happened. Not on those board or anywhere else I have been.
You know what I remember, though? When the Newcron retcon struck, people who liked the retcon were toxic and vitriolic towards oldcron guys. It was almost like the Oldcrons raped and murdered their whole family. You can check the archives for yourself.
So no. Newcron fanboys are singular in their entitlement and vindictiveness.
>>46180820
Which is exactly what an autistic twat like you deserve.
>>46180982
You complete idiot.
I addressed that dynasty see >>46173814. This is why I tell you mofos to read the thread before replying to any post, you lazy gits.
>>46180820
>What is the Maynarkh Dynasty?
Also
> I will never get because Newcron fans just want everything to be about them
That seems to describe you more than Newcron fans more than anything else since you're complaining about how the new Necron fluff isn't catering to your every want idiot. Not to mention you're blatantly ignoring the fact that it actually does leave room for an army like yours, but keep up the selective attention; seems to be working out great for you.
>>46173814
>>46181005
I'm assuming you have never read the book since one read through the thing will show that you're kind of a retard.
Anrakyr the Traveler is still best cron and the Anrakyr/Szeras story page from the 5th edition codex is everything right with the change.
>>46180998
See? I rest my case. Newcron fanboys are the worst.
>>46181005
Another thing I forgot. The Maynarkh dynasty is the only dynasty we know that does not use C'tan shards.
That' how much they hate the C'tan.
>>46181048
I'm not a newcron fanboy, I just hate you Carnac.
I wish that you get ass cancer and die.
>>46181016
No, the Newcron room opens no room for my army and does all when its power to close doors for me.
>Maynarkh
read the thread, you imbecile.
>>46181038
I read the book and it seems you did not. The book is, like all FW books, is written from an Imperial perspective. Only the part where dynasty lore is discussed is not from Imperial perspective.
When Imperial interacted with the Necrons, it was shown that they were no different than the rest of the Necrons. They adhered to the protocols of war and issued warnings to the Imperials before going on the attack.
If we had insight into their courts like we do in the Newcron codex, then they will be zany fuckers like the rest of them.
>>46181081
>I'm not a newcron fanboy
Then get out of this thread!
>>46181127
Continued...
Lets educated you, mofos.
(picture related) is the warning Maynarkh delivered.
>>46181171
This is a warning sent by the Sautekh.
Notice they are pretty much the same. Warnings of agony and death for those who trespassed.
What's the only difference between the Sautekh and Maynarkh (Other that the out of control Flayer curse)? We got perspective into the Sautekh while the Maynarkh we got to see them from Imperial eyes.
In essence, they are pretty much the same. People who claim that Maynarkh are "Oldcrons" are deluded fools.
Lets continue on.
You see this SPOOOOKY messages that Maynarkh sent?
It's practically the same thing the Sautekh Necrons did on Damnos. They sent spooky messages and projected scary images to demoralize the Imperials. The only difference is that we got to see the Sautekh Necrons snickering at the cowering Imperials in that book.
Yep. 40k was better in general before 2011.
>>46180820
Except you follow the fluff as it once was, unlike female space marines which never existed. And yet both your army and a female space marine army is as ok as the ultramarines if that's what you want to play. Who the fuck cares if it's fan fiction tier or not? Any time you place a named character on the table it's fan fiction tier. If you play blood angels vs space wolves it might be fan fiction tier (I honestly don't know). If you put certain characters on the table at the same time when one of them fluff-wise died before the other one was even born that's extreme fan fiction tier, yet no one gives a shit.
I think that what you really want is to wallow in the lore of a robot species controlled by cthulhoid space gods. I personally like the necrons better that way. So if I would play them guess what I would be doing?
>>46181424
Again, I say, I play my army in any way I like. I play they as Oldcrons still. However, you guys keep saying that the new fluff allows for my army. It simply does not. It's a lie that keeps getting repeated. What the newcron fluff did is close the doors on my army ever being fluffy and also forever deny my army any content in the form of fluff, models, etc. Every new update will be more jackass Newcron crap ad infinitum, and when I ask for just a little bone for us Oldcron dudes? It's too much!
>>46166119
Last time I liked them was when they were called Chaos Androids.
>>46167053
>if you're with the government or the church get off my property, which considering that I own this rock, is effectivly everything
>>46181550
>However, you guys keep saying that the new fluff allows for my army. It simply does not.
Yes it does.
>>46182086
No, it does not.
>>46182127
Yes it does. Necron lore is very expansive and you can easily work your little kill toasters in there if you wish.
>>46182182
Nah.
In regard of the C'tan. It's pretty open shut case. We have been over this in this thread many times.
>>46182210
>In regard of the C'tan. It's pretty open shut case.
No it's not, there are loose C'tan shards out there.
>>46182259
Which are mostly mindless feral things
And the intelligent ones cannot or/and will not control the Necrons. Probably because the Anti-C'tan protocols prevent them from doing it.
If you think it's possible, then find a singke mention of C'tan controling Necrons in the new lore.
are people seriously still taking his b8
>>46182300
>Which are mostly mindless feral things
Mostly, but not all.
>And the intelligent ones cannot or/and will not control the Necrons. Probably because the Anti-C'tan protocols prevent them from doing it.
Protocols can be erased.
>If you think it's possible, then find a singke mention of C'tan controling Necrons in the new lore.
There are none, but that does not mean it couldn't happen.
>>46182344
>Mostly, but not all.
All of the C'tan in the codexes have been shown to be mindless or mentaly lacking. Only BL showed an intelligent C'tan shard. And guess what it did? It destroyed the Necrons and left.
So neither mindless ones and intelligent ones support your case.
>Protocols can be erased.
Source?
>There are none, but that does not mean it couldn't happen.
Translation "I can't prove anything. Let me throw my speculation as canon". You gotta do better than that.
>>46171932
>Milton Bradley
Holy shit did old game boxes scary as hell.
>>46182469
>So neither mindless ones and intelligent ones support your case.
An intelligent one choosing to do one thing proves nothing, it could just as easily choose to do another.
>Source?
The Empire of the Severed. The Necrons were all erased and the Computer took over.
>Translation "I can't prove anything. Let me throw my speculation as canon".
Nah, it's just logic. There are no canon loyal Space Marines with World Eater gene-seed, but that doesn't mean none could exist.
>>46177574
To be fair, Trazyn's tyranid zoo came back to nit him in the ass
>>46182469
Continued.....
>The Burning One had corrected the Magnovitrium’s decaying orbit, and augmented the mighty device with a portion of its own godly power. Yet the C’tan Shard was but a single sliver of a once-great mind. It could follow its master’s orders, could even pour its own might into the Magnovitrium’s blast once it was triggered. It could not, however, subvert the device’s failsafes or override its firing protocols – such improvisation was simply beyond the god-shard’s ability to conceive.
-Shield of Baal
This is (or was) a Transcendent C'tan Shard. It was made from an unknown number of C'tan shards.
Even with all its powers, its mind was a limited thing.
Yes, these shards are totally able to take over tomb worlds and overcome their protocols./sarcasm.
>>46182565
Minotaurs :^)
>>46177574
>egyptian stuff
>subtle
>ever
You would need to be blind to miss the Egyptian shit in Necrons in any edition.
>>46182676
Nope, their gene-seed is simply unknown.
Are you guys still debating with the faggot butthurt about the fact that if something is not 100% canon then it's fanfiction and you are not allowed to enjoy it?
Please stop. He's either a troll or an idiot, and this is not the first thread he's in.
>>46182565
>An intelligent one choosing to do one thing proves nothing, it could just as easily choose to do another.
it proves lack of ability. It could have had an army instead it destroyed them. This keeps repeating each time a C'tan shard escapes.
Free C'tan shard are always shown as fugitives hiding in isolated sections of space and such, Never behind armies.
>The Empire of the Severed. The Necrons were all erased and the Computer took over.
Their minds were erased, not the protocols. The Sarkoni Emperor who took over is adherent of the Necrontyr ideals and protocols.
>Nah, it's just logic
Bad logic because there is nothing supporting it.
>>46182587
nids stronk
fucking tinshits suck my big bio-plasmic dick
>>46182736
I am not telling anybody not to enjoy it. I am debating the idea that a C'tan controlled army can be okay in the new fluff.
>>46182736
He's also really done a complete 360 moonwalk on his old Newcron >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oldcron stance.
>>46182766
>it proves lack of ability.
No it doesn't. Just because you can do something does mean you have to do something.
>Their minds were erased, not the protocols.
Protocols are part of the mind. It's all just data, and it has been proven erasable.
>Bad logic because there is nothing supporting it.
There's nothing to directly support it, but that doesn't mean you can't work within the boundaries of the fluff, like loyalist wolrd eater chapter.
Lets break it down.
1. C'tan shards are shown to be able to be intelligent.
2. Necron software can be erased with sufficient radiation.
It would therefore be easy to write your own scenario in which a C'tan shard can exert control over a group of Necrons.
>>46182881
Far be it to criticize some elements in Newcron lore.
>>46181424
Anybody who fields an army of female space marines should only be laughed off the table. The only point to play 40k is to play for the lore. Outside of the "narrative" the game is objectively shit and there's no reason to even bother when there's cheaper and better historical wargames.
>>46182894
>No it doesn't. Just because you can do something does mean you have to do something.
Yes, it does. When in consistently happens with no break it becomes a rule. Intelligent and mindless C'tan want nothing to do with the Necrons. What does that tell you?
>Protocols are part of the mind. It's all just data, and it has been proven erasable.
It's not. Empire of the Severed. If it was part of minds of the Necrons, then it would have been erased with it. The Servered Necrons and their AI master still follow Necron ideals like the rest of the Necrons except like the rest of the Necrons they interpret differently.
>It would therefore be easy to write your own scenario in which a C'tan shard can exert control over a group of Necrons.
See (>>46182632). A big C'tan shard made outta between 12 to 100 shards was proven to be mentally deficient at manipulating Necron technology.
Furthermore, not even the C'tan at their zenith could break the Anti-C'tan protocols. These shards stand less of a chance.
So not only is there nothing supporting it, there is plenty against it.
>>46174256
>not enjoying having rules for Golden Skeletor from the He-Man movie
>>46183177
The movie was a Star Wars wannabe.
A failed one!
>>46166119
I always liked the Oldcrons. we had all of the stupidity and grimderp that was the rest of the universe, and then we had a race that was lightyears ahead of the rest of the galaxy technologically.
worse, they didn't actually invade planets:
they had always been there, just waiting for the signal to reawaken.
and to top it off, they had the single simplest goal of any faction in 40K:
they wanted to kill
Literally.
Everything.
I still think of them as my favorite omnicidal robot space zombies of doom and green lightning.
>>46183095
>Yes, it does.
No it does not. You are simply wrong in this regard.
>What does that tell you?
Nothing, we have next to no sample size and even if we had a sufficient one, you can always have the exception, because that's part of what making your own fluff is about.
>It's not. Empire of the Severed. If it was part of minds of the Necrons, then it would have been erased with it.
It was all erased. The Severed Necrons are just puppets of the AI, the AI who was himself damaged by the storm.
>A big C'tan shard made outta between 12 to 100 shards was proven to be mentally deficient
So what? We've already got evidence of non-mentally deficient C'tan. A big one being retarded simply means that mind does not depend on power.
>Furthermore, not even the C'tan at their zenith could break the Anti-C'tan protocols.
The Flayer corrupted Necrons to such a degree that even their physical forms change. It's not like a C'tan would even have to break them, just use some wiped ones ala the Severed.
>>46166348
There is.
It's called the Maynarkh Dynasty
>>46183212
>and to top it off, they had the single simplest goal of any faction in 40K:
>they wanted to kill
>Literally.
>Everything.
Oldcronfags can never even get their own fluff right. Necrons were farming tools. Life was not to be extinguished by farmed.
>>46166119
Space Egyptians > metal tyranids
