I think it's getting to the point to where we can't say Mantic is terrible anymore.
>>46152464
Terrible? No. Inconsistent though.
>>46152464
Mantic's good stuff costs more, so you can't really keep saying "hurr Mantic better than GW" either.
>>46152482
i think the inconsistency stems from the old stuff being worse looking than their newer stuff, but they still continue to sell the old crappy stuff. no different than gw. old kits are cheaper than new kits, which is why everyones so damn confused when it comes to gw pricing
>>46152492
Fair enough.
All I know is I am seriously tempted to make a squat army counts-as space marines now. I would replace their guns with 40k guns though.
These JUST came out.
I'm still comfortable calling mantic trash tier.
>>46152573
forgot pic
>>46152573
>>46152591
Nigga you serious? ive been thinking about cutting those in half and sticking the tops on a unit of hexwraiths
>>46152591
I like these models but I don't like the flames. Not large or flamey enough.
>>46152591
I kinda like those, the flame would look way better in blue.
>>46152516
Dwarf space marines would be pretty legit. I'll be checking the WIP threads for you anon
>>46152464
The Steel Warriors were improved... the Veermyn all turned into kangaroo leg, long armed rat-monkeys... so >>46152482 this anon is right, they'd get more praise if they improved on all fronts, not just because they give a job to one good sculptor and pass off the others...
>>46152464
The problem I have with mantic is not the quality of their models. They are far, far smaller then GW, yet have a myriad of different game systems and factions. I honestly fear, they are completly over their heads and will collapse because they cannot give the systems the attention they need, so they, like deadzone, float around without getting more than a token update.
>>46154631
To be fair, the updates they've put out for things have been substantial in terms of changes between versions. Eg Deadzone is pretty much a different game entirely from the original version. Warpath is undergoing also drastic changes. Even Kings of War underwent huge mechanically significant changes from 1st, all for the better.
All of their 1st edition games so far have been like proof of concepts but not viable games. The biggest example might be Dungeon Saga coming from Dwarf Kings Hold.Maximum Kek realizing those new SquatMarines in the OP have more sculpt/pose variety than the Sigmarines.
>>46152464
The detail and poses may be better on the bottom but I prefer the concept of the top.
>>46154631
I can't speak for the other games because so far im really only interested in deadzone atm, but deadzone 2 is a massive improvement over the first. A simpler system that keeps a majority of the tactics from the first and dumps the annoying cards used for everything. So it seems that when mantic does an update for a game, they REALLY do an update for it. I checked out warpath firefight but it doesnt use tlos, so dropped.
But I can see what you're saying though. I can't roll my eyes hard enough over the walking dead game
>>46153325
The veermyn are what got me to look at deadzone again and back the kickstarter. I love those little guys. The new kits improved over the old ones definitely. The old ones look like humans with rat heads and tails. The new ones look like they'd be actual uplifted rats.
>>46155241
Well the ones on top are going to be repurposed into militia. The rank and file soldiers. While the steel warriors and stormrage veterans (the bottom kit) are supposed to be the more elite troops.
>>46155241
I was going to say something similar but you worded it better. My other complaint is that the heads on the lower guys are a bit too small and their necks look stretched in some poses.
>>46154714
>Even Kings of War underwent huge mechanically significant changes from 1st, all for the better.
Truth.
>Removed rules for banners and musicians
>unit leaders are no longer a specific model
>Nerve calculation simplified by 2 steps
>inclusion of thunderous charge and disruption
>Nerfed warmachine LOS
>Removed half-regiments and standardised unit sizes
>Decimator troops are no longer Breath Attack 20 for 80 points
>War machines hit more than once a game on average
>Warsmiths no longer give dwarf war machines Elite
>No more unstoppable bloodbath vampires
>No more Individuals getting flanking bonuses
>No more elves shooting if they survive a charge
I can't think of anything in 2nd that is worse than it was in the old rules. Such an improvement.
>>46154631
>yet have a myriad of different game systems and factions
To be fair, Mantic only *really* have 4 systems; Kings of War, Deadzone, Dreadball and Warpath.
Everything else they've made are one-off games that don't get any updates or development attention after they're released (yeah, sure, they MIGHT get an update here and there, but when was the last time you heard about an update for Mars Attacks or Loka?).
They seem to be handling things well enough, especially since their games are pretty simple to begin with and aren't as difficult to balance as something like Infinity or Warmachine.
Mantic has managed to put out everyday, unremarkable, and uninteresting minins for a long time now.
It's just that they still weave in utter rubbish things like those fucking battle nuns on a regular basis too.
>>46155942
What battle nuns?
Also their zombies and skellies are probably my favourite plastic undead by a long shot. Some of their stuff has always been pretty good, and then some of their stuff has been... not. It's inconsistant.
>>46156955
These. To be fair, they are getting better, but nothing outstanding so far.
>>46152464
Wait what? Squats exist again?
What changed at Gam
>>46157073
>Gam
What?
>>46158232
>being this new
>>46152464
Even if the models in the top image are kind of derby, they communicate the idea of "fantasy dwarves in a sci fi setting" better than the bottom does.
The bottom image's models look like tubby, bearded C3-POS.
>>46158303
Doesn't change the fact that I don't know what Gam is.
>>46158476
It's an old meme where as soon as you mention anything about squats, games workshop would send agents to take you away, often so quick to repsond that they would take you mid-post.
Due to squats being, well, squatted, they are not to be mentioned ever, and GW is trying to keep them under wraps like a secret government organization. So people would do joke posts mentioning squats and wou
>>46158476
Maybe if you send them an email, you can get an answer. They have a guy nowadays specifically for questions about this sort of thing. I think the address is candlejack@games-wo
Like lts of anons say, mantic worse sin is inconsistence in they minis. I liked the last release (the troll needs at least one day in legs, the centaurs a bit of work in proportions for my taste, the evil dorf less derpy decorations) but they aren't bad or perfect, they still need a last push imho.
![texplainthejoke[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/FLAS0UD.jpg "texplainthejoke[1].jpg")
>>46158506
>>46157031
What exactly is wrong with these? They look pretty good, especially for not being borderline fetishy bullshit that nine of ten other companies put out.
>>46158506
Oh, okay. That makes sense. Thanks
>>46158537
>let's make this place more like reddit guys!1! What could go wrong??????
>>46158800
>Inside jokes faggots need to lurk more if they want to get
>le ebin reddit xdddd
Mmm mmm mmm that's some tasty bait right there
>>46158830
Just accept the fact that you've exposed your newfaggotry and move on, you're only making even more fun of yourself this way.
>>46158849
That's not me, that's someone else.
>>46158537
It was never a very good joke, and the squats have since been mentioned by GW in the main rulebook.
outdated memes don't deserve any respect
in that anon's defense, I assumed Gam was an acronym or shorthand for a game expo of some sort... Also, where are all the photos of the new warpath models coming from?
>>46158950
now if only forgeworld would give us generic squat models for use as imperial auxilia in 30k...
>>46158957
>I assumed Gam was an acronym or shorthand for a game expo of some sort
That is exactly what I first thought it was.
The photos are all coming from the Warpath and Deadzone kickstarter pages.
>>46158950
GW outright rewrote a BL book to replace a squat character.
>>46159361
squats are literally mentioned by name in the main rulebook, both 6th and 7th edition
>>46158232
>>46158476
>>46158741
>>46158800
>>46158913
>>46158950
>>46158957
>>46159200
You newfriends are lucky. Back in my day we'd *CLANG*
What the fuck was that?!
>>46159533
>>46152464
There is nothing wrong with the Forge Fathers on top.
>>46158512
Kek
>>46163376
That's fine. The ones on the bottom are still better, though.
I really like Mantic's skeletons but I hate their heads. Too goofy.
>>46164294
I love they heads, full Evil dead.
>>46159520
Have some helpful source, anon.
>>46159520
Writing "squat" in a list of shit but never give them models, and going way out of your way to never mention them, even going to far as to retcon old canon to push them out is not bringing them back. All it is is tossing a reference to old fans.
>>46154631
There's some truth in that, but Deadzone is a pretty poor example given it's about to get completely re-done within weeks.
Support is a tricky thing though, Dreadball is a great but flawed system, fixing it really needs a new edition, but if they did that too soon, they'd get stick for it. You really can't win as a games producer.
>>46158570
Proportions are weird arms too long and necks too long.
Still original Anon was implying they were in some way a recent release, there's been an entire edition of Kings of War come and go since their release. 3 or 4 years probably.
Pretty much everything they've done since the first Dreadball Kickstarter has been OK at worst, and some really nice stuff in there.
>>46152464
Better, newer example
>>46166477
>>46152464
>>46152464
That whole line is awesome. The space skaven are really tempting me.
There is a growing contingent at our flgs that wants to use that games rules with 40k models.
>>46158950
it dates back at least to the official GW forums; they would actively delete squat threads and if you mentioned it too much they'd place a ban on your account until you had a chat with a mod.
they also banned the word "beardy"
>>46152516
What is this? Sci-Fi dwarfs? what game?
>>46166606
seriously, read the fucking thread
>>46152464
Price range on minis for this game compared to GW?
>>46166642
use google faggot
>>46166619
>>46166652
What's the matter with you?
>>46166364
>>46158570
>>46157031
Honestly those are tabletop serviceable. There's far worse at higher prices even.
I don't think Mantic's biggest problem is consistency either. The problem is them outdoing themselves on occasion, and then people expect that 110% all the fucking time from everything else of theirs. By that standard, most of the stuff they've put out is shit, yes.
If you look outside the small core circle of "quality" miniatures companies that have an abnormal bulk behind them, there's a fuckton of just mediocre to complete crap options out there from smaller groups.
Sturgeons law ruins everything.
>>46166606
Mantic games has:
Not-40k (Space Dwarfs in this)
Not-Necromunda (Space Dwarfs in this)
Not-WHFB
Not-Heroquest
Aka:
Warpath
Deadzone
Kings of War
Dungeon Saga
>>46166642
They've pulled stuff from their store for now since the whole thing is undergoing a new election. Right now it's all old stock at retailers.
>>46166652
Don't be a faggot
>>46166685
>undergoing a new election
*EDITION
New edition
Sorry trying to type and have a conversation at the same time
>>46166685
>Don't be a faggot
Like >>46166642 and >>46166652 ? Got it.
>>46152573
Those models in question have been out for a year
Keep it up
>>46166571
It is in beta testing right now. You can download the rules for free from their website.
>>46164967
The only thing retconned was an old as dirt BL book.
Honestly, I don't really give a damn if Squats were to get models or not, think I'd rather see what other abhumans look like. If they do get models for 40k then they should just be a unit or units for the Imperial Guard, there is no reason for Squats to be their own army.
>>46158506
>>46158741
of course its all pointless now since GW brought back squats a few years ago.
>>46166918
I could see Squats getting a White Dwarf codex, like the recent Tyranid Cults, or a mini-dex like Harlequins, but I do somewhat agree. 40 has enough armies that suck diseased cock, we don't need another army that'll just get neglected in the long run.
>>46166571
>>46166815
Word of advice, there's still some BIG gaps in the rules, and here's not a whole lot of direct cross-over with 40k like KoW has with WHFB. There's Space Marines, Eldar, Guard, and Orks, though right now Orks are a part of the Guard.
The not!Eldar and the Squats are a little broken right now on the Firefight side.
>>46167534
I dunno, I have the deadzone rulebooks here and after reading through them they seem really solid. I'm excited to get a game in.
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/woayb5yb9fke1/deadzone
>>46167630
Sorry, thought we were talking about Warpath, which is currently in beta testing.
>>46167286
Harlequins and Genestealer Cults are actually different enough. Giving Squats an army would basically be opening the door on why someone can't make an Ogryn or Ratling army outside of unbound.
>>46167756
A pure abhuman army would be pretty cool.
>>46166642
1-1 Mantic and GW prices are similar, with GW being slightly more expensive.
The great thing about Mantic, though, are their bulk deals. Take the Mantic Elf Army and the GW High Elves Battalion:
Mantic Elf Army (76 minis) $85 USD
GW High Elves Battalion (49 minis) $120 USD
When Warpath comes out you can expect similar good bulk deals like this.
>>46168315
Some of their horde deals are astounding. You can get a zombie horde (40 minis) for $40, while their GW equivalent is $30 for 12.
Some models, especially their non-plastic ones, aren't much cheaper like the Abyssal Archfiend compared to a Daemon Prince.
Personally looking forward to at least using some of the cheap Warpath minis in a 40K Renegades army.
>>46168618
>You can get a zombie horde (40 minis) for $40, while their GW equivalent is $30 for 12.
Fucking hell. And Mantic undead models are really good too.
>>46166921
GW brought back squats? I must have missed that.
Wait, nope, not seeing it on the webstore.
Please post the link to the models/codex on the GW site.
>>46168977
>Please post the link to the models/codex on the GW site.
Years ago they ret-conned squats' existence, but they've recently changed their minds and re-affirmed that they are a part of the setting.
There are no models, or codex and there probably never will be.
>>46166661
What's the matter with you dickhead? Look it fucking up! We're not hear to spoon feed you.
Google 40K Squats. Will tell you everything you need to know.
Now fuck off and educate yourself.
>>46169109
Whew, someone is a little toasty
It's OK anon, we can all get through this
>>46152516
I think it goes this way:
GW circa 2000 > Mantic today > GW today > Mantic circa 2000's.
I've actually liked mantic in theory for years but GW's business/marketing antics, combined with sharply declining quality in their sculpts, leave me open to buy from someone else now.
>>46152750
Yeah their painters still don't measure up to the heavy metal guys at GW. That painted mini on your web store is all-important, something companies STILL skimp on.
>>46164378
I love how the administratum and mechanicus both have spelling and grammar errors in the letters that proclaim their infallibility.
I'll have to insure that there is no seperate missuse of Imperial files.
>>46152750
>>46169370
I think they went green because in the fluff the balefire associated with necromancy is green. It's consistent with the depictions of the catapults.
>>46158570
>What exactly is wrong with these?
>not being borderline fetishy bullshit
you answered your own question:^)
>>46169370
>something companies STILL skimp on
It's not that they skimp on hiring painters, it's just that painting is the very last part of a mini's production and after taking care of the sculptor, master molds and packaging there is not much money left for a painter.
>>46167756
Because Ogryn are too stupid to be used outside of single squads, and ratlings are too physically small to do anything on their own. Squats offer better engineering than the imperial guard, as well as the physical hardiness necessary for mass combat.
Also, it could just very well be that Squats are simply more numerous than the other abhumans in their new fluff.
>>46170166
>Squats offer better engineering than the imperial guard
Which would have likely been stripped from them by the Mechanicum.
Maybe in the beginning Squats worked fine on their own, but there is a lot now which makes it difficult for them to be some kind of separate but equal entity to the Imperium.
>>46170366
IIRC the vast majority of Squat home worlds are/were part of the Imperium.
>>46170555
Then equality argument comes into play where you have to answer questions about the Squat's technology and relationship with the Mechanicus and why they're somehow not simply tithed into the Imperial Guard.
>>46166477
>>46166492
muh dick
>>46169327
wot. The quality of GWs sculpts is better than ever before. They have made a few questionable aesthetic choices lately but ugly isn't the same as bad quality. it's also a personal preference thing.
>>46172143
I don't think he's rating purely from sculpt in that post. Probably the sculpts, designs, cost, and maybe even the business practices of the company as a whole.
>>46152482
>>46152516
Holy shit m8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmivKyEY1Dk
>>46168618
I bought the zombie horde, but I can't make 40 full-bodied zombies. I have to make many being just a spine sticking up from legs or a zombie having lost his legs. Not pleased, famalama
>>46172143
No it is not. It used to be great. Now 4 out of every 5 releases are snap fit. The days of glorious highly poseable kits are over. Just look at any of the AoS releases, or the new Space Marine hero (which is funny because it's more expensive than the old, highly poseable one, than they still sell, and for less money).
>>46175516
posability hasn't declined. the monopose minis are just plastic now instead of metal/resin.
snapfit minis are still only in starter sets or those ultra cheap 3-5 basic infantry mini boxes, same as it has been for the last decade or more.
quality is undeniably up, minis are more finely detailed and more precisely fitted with smaller gaps and reduced moldlines.
>>46172143
You could have the best artist in the world create a fantastically executed painting of a dog shitting on the floor but you would not want it on your wall.
Aesthetics cannot be ignored. Especially if the painting of the shitting dog costs five times as much.
>>46175556
>more finely detailed
Adding lots of unnecessary and ugly detail is not the same as being 'finely detailed'. Who cares what the 'quality' is when lots of the new kits have poor poseability, the models look crap and the prices are insane?
>>46168618
>Abyssal Archfiend
That range actually looks like mage knight/heroclix tier garbage famila.
>abyssal dwarves
meh tier, but very high quality chaos dwarves are available for cheap from other makers. Very few kits worth buying because of that.
>Basilea
Horrific
>dwarves
Pretty bad
>elves
Pretty bad
>Forces of the Abyss
Horrific
>Goblins
Meh tier. Have some kits worth buying
>Ogres
Pretty bad
>Orcs
Pretty bad, trolls are a new frontier of terrible that transcends the human experience and makes me desire death
>Undead
Meh with a few surprisingly strong units like zombies.
Overall seems pretty shit still. This may be the worst plastic miniature box EVER made. I'd like to see someone find something worse.
>>46175804
>>Ogres
>Pretty bad
>>Orcs
>Pretty bad, trolls are a new frontier of terrible that transcends the human experience and makes me desire death
>>Undead
>Meh with a few surprisingly strong units like zombies.
And here is comes redshirt.
>>46175652
fine detail necessary or not is still fine detail. Being ugly has nothing to do with quality.
the minis are just as posable as they used to be. In that they're still usually fairly limited.
>>46175817
I'm no red shirt, I spend my time making anti gw dank memes for fun. But we need to promote actual decent third parties and not just cut off our nose to spite our face by supporting a terrible manufacturer like mantic.
Pic related is 10 euros. This is the sort of company worth supporting.
>>46155578
>The veermyn are what got me to look at deadzone again and back the kickstarter. I love those little guys. The new kits improved over the old ones definitely. The old ones look like humans with rat heads and tails. The new ones look like they'd be actual uplifted rats.
Lets agree to disagree then. I own two pets races, and the forelimbs are not longer than the hind limbs. Whoever sculpted them couldn't make the rifle fit under the longer snouts so stretched the arms. That's just poor design. You can't even turn the heads because they're not a ball-joint, but a tab, meaning all Veermyn infantry have to be looking directly forward.
Very poor sculpting. GW were doing better than that back when they released the Ork Boys and Eldar Guardians in 1998...
>>46175940
Could someone post a comparison? I've always been keen on using Veermyn as proxies, but the sculpts just weren't the style and quality I wanted.
Mantic is trash
Not even cheap trash
>>46175804
>I'd like to see someone find something worse.
Are you fuckin' shitting me Anon? Welcome to GW's Bullgors. Apparently sculpted by someone who has ZERO IDEA what the hell muscles are or how they work... It's like these things flunked out of 'Fat Camp' and then ate the entire cast and crew of the show...
>>46176120
Yea those are pretty disgusting, but I still think the trolls are worse.
>>46176120
And these are cheaper
Mantic being cheap is a meme
>>46172143
The whole point of sculpting is aesthetics and design. And it's clearly declined from the 2000s.
Are you talking about cast quality? Yes GW improved in that area, but it's simply not enough, or as important at this level.
>>46175556
That's cast quality, not sculpt quality.
>>46152464
I got this a while ago. Still unassembled, and in bags. If anyone needs proof for something I can provide detailed photos of partsand I won't even resize them
>>46175556
What the hell are you talking about. Take a look at the dracoths and compare them to any cavalry unit. Everyone can move their torsos and at least one limb (plus heads) and through combination of mount halves it is quite hard to see the same mount twice in a 10 man unit.
The dracoths are monopose.
>>46176013
Mom is really the best at the moment, true scale, cheap and resine. Shame he will never make plastic because is literally one dude doing everything.
>>46176829
Well most of these start out as one or two dudes, but if he starts to make money he may be able to expand. Best case scenario the spanish trio join together and use their collective sculpting talent and resources to make a full replacement line of GW. I'd cum myself, but it is but a dream.
>>46176829
>Mom
Who? Is this guy a re-caster or an indie company?
>>46176981
Momminiatures aka the Drunk Spaniard. His Divine rage line does fantasy minis in true scale.
I think the fucker has made a new web now.
http://www.momminiaturas.com
>>46176941
Gamezone and avatar of war joining? Nah. But I can see AoW and Mom doing it, and do something together with mantic.
>>46176829
Russian alt is also pretty fucking based
Pic related is 16 dollars
>>46176981
Indie
>>46177021
That was 16 dollars during the 50% off sale. It's back up to 32 again.
Fuck, look at this dorf statue, how much do you thing this absolute madman charges for it?
Also sorry for Aussies, at least americans get free shipping for starting at 120 euros.
>>46177048
As of now it's 19.50 on eBay
>>46177084
A pair of those is 10 euros, or about 11 dollars. The absolute mad man.
>>46177183
>Russian Alternative Trolls for US$21
>current exchange rate is AUD$27
>Paypal exchange rate is AUD$37
What is this? Does eBay use the real exchange rate or the Paypal one? That's a ridiculous discrepancy.
>>46176120
the minotaurs are actually decently looking if you paint them as fur covered instead of naked manflesh.
>>46152464
>>46152516
Goddammit. Mantic's Forge Fathers are sweet while to this day stupid GW won't make the Squats come back as a playable faction at least under a different name. And the only thing that returns about 40K's Space Dwarves is a note in the list of still existing abhumans that they are still alive.
Hell, not even the Demiurgs who are supposed to be their spiritual successors as the Space Dwarf concept got a footnote on them and only this.
We can blame all these years on Tom Kirby.
>>46178035
>muh Kirby boogeyman
>>46175932
And could you give the name of that sort of company?
>>46178346
http://www.momminiaturas.com
>>46178384
Reading his blog, he will be make a sci fi game with rules and all inspired in 90'sci fi. I dunno if he will tank or what but godamn the magnificient bastard could pull it out.
These guys just look so cool. Hello squat terminators.
>>46176013
No seriously, which model is that on the left? Ive been looking everywhere now.
>>46177898
That's the point! If they were decent minis, one would NOT have to paint them in such a way as to camouflage their shitty designs.
>>46181577
Momminiaturas--->Barbaros and scroll down for Bestia Infernal.
>>46181559
I own a set of them. they're pretty awesome
I like their newer plastic models. the old Resin/plastic models are/were terrible.
Even the newer stuff like the Brokkrs are kinda bad for cleanup.
>>46181776
... I was dead certain it was GW since they'd sue the pants off anybody, given the Chaos branding on it.
Mom has nice miniatures for a good price, but browsing through the catalog, you couldn't build an army out of them. He doesn't have much, and in the time it takes for a new sculpt is the time it takes for other companies to produce a whole line.
>>46177021
Yeah these guys average like 3-4$ a miniature last I looked. They had that one crazy sale.
Same problem, you can't really make an army out of them, they don't cover everything.
Crazy pills, am I the only one not taking them?
Anybody else find it more important to grab eg for 3 regiments of the same unit, three different sets from different makes and mix them?
I'd rather have more variety than the same regiment cloned three times even if it is a really good sculpt for the price.
Grab the Mom, grab the Mantic, grab the GW sculpts, and mix some bits from Warmahordes even. Fuck it.
Did Mantic release a new revenants kit? There look like two different sets of models in the photos.
>>46181960
>Stealing the Chaos branding.
Literally GW stealed nearly everything from other settings, the chaos branding is from Michael Moorcock for example (and the Dark Elfs/eldar have a lot of Melnibonese with all they slave thing, big ships etc).
Also he launches one or two units for month, that isn't bad. He says the next will be boar riding orcs, human heroes and dorf warmachines.
>>46152591
> Implying KOW undead minis don't piss all over WHFB undead minis from a spectacular height
>>46157031
i dont think these are great, but they're pretty similar to gw sculpts. reminds me of most empire and bretonnia sculpts
>>46181960
It doesn't have to be one company you get your army from anon
Let's take chaos warriors for example
>infantry
AoW's warriors and Mom's warriors, shield wolf and Russian alts and AoW's mauraders
>cav
Gamezones chaos knights, pricy but amazing
>monstrous shit
Russian alts trolls, moms bestia and greater demon/demon Princes
>sorcerers and their ilk
Everyone and their mom
This is the case with all but the newest least generic units like the mortis engine. Everything is made by someone more or less
Armies of unsupported age is good
>>46183354
VC Skeletons from gw are genuinely the best skeletons out there. For ghouls and zombies, you're not wrong
>>46183354
GW's skeletons are better, especially the heads. They just cost a stupid amount.
