Why do you hate this guy so much? In my opinion it was one of WotC's best creations both flavor and gameplay wise, especially considering that it's a common.
>>46129046
Mostly because he's way too good.
>>46129083
>Tarmogoyf is too good.
>Need to ban good cards pls papa Wizard,
>I'm confused, the blue player touched my weewee and assraped me :(
Fuck you
>>46129046
Blue is supposed to suck at creatures, not get a common one-drop you can build a very effective deck around.
>>46129046
reduce flip side power by one
>>46129184
I mean, delver is better than most creatures out there, is blue and is way too easy to activate.Tarmogoyf is fine by the way.
>>46129083
>>46129188
>>46129191
Look at all this fuckers that want Wizards to ban shit and then, they will be the first to cry when the format is shit because it'll become like Modern.
>>46129083
>>46129188
>>46129191
Delver is already ruined in modern, no need to ruin the most fun archetype in another format.
>>46129286
I didn't say anything about banning, I just said Delver is shit because getting a hyper-efficient aggro one drop is not what blue is about from a design standpoint at all.
>>46129286
>>46129295
I'm not saying Delver should be banned, I just think he should have been a 2/2 Flying. I also don't really like his design, I mean, it makes sense, but having such a great tempo creature isn't really blue's thing. The last good creature they had was Morphling, and for good reason.
>>46129257
>What is bolt
>What is Galvanic Blast
>What is Disfigure
>What is Journey to nowhere
the list goes on.
If you can't play removal for a 3/2 flyer on turn 2, just don't play the game
>>46129350
Delver shoulda costed more. Blue's suppoused to be the worst at creatures, not the best
Imo Delver is fine, it's other colors that need better creatures in Pauper not blue needíng worse ones.
>>46129350
>Tempo is not a blue thing
wut ??
>>46129188
Nah, Delver's actually a perfectly Blue creature.
>>46129046
>2016
>thinks delver's rarity is actually appropriate
you must be new here.
Rate my Burn deck also should I buy Slivers or is it ass.
4 Chain Lightning
4 Curse of the Pierced Heart
4 Fireblast
3 Forgotten Cave
4 Incinerate
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
16 Mountain
4 Needle Drop
4 Rift Bolt
3 Searing Blaze
1 Shard Volley
1 Spark Elemental
1 Echoing Ruin
2 Electrickery
3 Martyr of Ashes
4 Molten Rain
1 Searing Blaze
4 Smash to Smithereens
>>46129365
The point is that BLUE shouldn't have great creatures since it already has pretty much the best spells.
>>46129395
B-but draft can't have good creatures, what would the players do?
>>46129396
Tempo is Blue's thing, but in spell form. Not in creatures.
>>46129397
>The color that is designed around having stronger spells and weaker creatures, and tends to be designed towards slower controlling strategies
>Having a strong, aggressive one-drop
"Being better than the other colors" is not actually part of blue's color pie, particularly not where creatures are concerned.
>>46129434
I'm aware which is why I'm also scared about the future of this format, since nowadays rarity seems to play a big role in terms of playability of the card.
Mythic=constructed staple, Common=Limited garbage
thanks Jews of the Coast
![Image[2].png](https://i.imgur.com/O1inxbo.png "Image[2].png")
Can't this be played in Tron ?
>>46129479
And in order to be anything other than a 1/1 for 1 you have to build your deck around having a large number of instants and sorceries.
It does not fit in a deck with a bunch of other aggro creatures because of this - there's a definite upper limit before your chances of flipping delver become low enough to be not worth the inclusion.
Regardless of one's opinion on the power level of the card, Delver of Secrets is a Blue card.
>>46129600
Pulse of Murasa also.
Rebuying a fattie while gaining 6 life seems good.
Eldrazi Devastator seems good too, Trample can close the game quickly.
>>46129600
It can, but is it better than Ulamog Crusher?
>>46129792
5/5 that can't be blocked with all the mana that you can generate is a 4 turn clock.
It can be played on turn 3 unlike Crusher.
T3 Pathfinder into T4 Crusher + Swing for 5 (and might even be unblockable) seems good.
Same for Devastator.
8/9 for 7 means it can be played on turn 3
and swing on turn 4.
I always find Tron to be slow because you just cantrip until you have your Crusher on turn 4. Then you're weak to removal spell.
Playing more fatties and rebuying them with Pulse of Murasa seems pretty good.
Removing the Oracle might be the way, always find them slow and not that good compared to other search effects in the deck.
Does an aristocrat deck exists in pauper ?
Don't have hope it exists, because Blood Artist/Cutthroat are uncommon. But may never know.
Is there a simple combo to generate infinite amount of mana in pauper ?
>>46129444
Man you guys are dicks.
>>46129511
>Mythic=constructed staple
I /really/ want this to be a deck.
So far all we have for demons are:
>7/4 legendary vanilla for 5BR
>5/3 vanilla for 3BB
>3/2 for 1BB that pings each player 3 when it dies
Anyone else hoping for a good common demon in SoI?
>>46129511
>Mythic=constructed staple
>Common=Limited garbage
While I don't completely agree with you I see your point. Anything remotely playable is at least an uncommon these days. Most recent new staples were only commons because Wizards didn't realize how strong they were.
Can someone explain to me why Chainer's Edict is a 10$ card in US meanwhile it's a less than 2€ Cards in Europe ???
>>46132001
meanwhile you can have it for less than 2€ in Europe
>>46131656
Neat idea. Wasted on 4chan though. All they do is defend/complain about delver when there are obviously decks that completely fuck delver in the ass, but no one wants to use them. Scrubs.
>>46132001
"Collectors" speculating, happens to cards randomly all the time. Remember MtG is not for playing.
>>46129736
Mark "The nose" Rosewater, there is reddit.
Go shitpost there.
>>46132031
What decks destroy delver ?
>>46132001
Because States players and investors are idiots and came out one day and said the card was going to be the best card ever, leading to inflated prices. Nothing to do with supply and demand. At local shops you can find them in common bins.
They gave blue it's win condition on 1. That's what makes it so good.
>>46131656
Those have NOVALUE over the normal apostle other than not dying to nausea.
Also generally low as fuck value overall.
>>46132001
>>46132022
USA
>IN THE KIKE WE TRUST! ALL HAIL MARO! STAR CITY GAMES, NOT TRADING. OK? OK. DUAL 600 DOLLAR
EU
>We believe in dredge, hitler did nothing wrong, Merkel und Maro mus weg! TRADING card game, not jewing card game. MCM and friendship.
>>46132100
>We believe in dredge
Time to migrate towards Europe
>>46132067
Stompy, any green Mono deck, any deck with crypt rats in it, elves.
Delver shits on anything red in the format.
>>46132151
You forgot UR control.
That shit bettfucks U delver right in the pussy
>>46129046 >>46129184 >>46129286
>>46129365 >>46129396 >>46129434
We can live with Delver, but it was a mistake.
>>46129395
You're not wrong.
>>>46129444 Rate my Burn deck
>my
This is card for card identical to MTGoldfish's sample burn deck.
Unless the game drags out /far/ longer than you want, Curse of the Pierced Heart seems mana inefficient.
It might be an OK SB against stalling matchups, but I wouldn't maindeck it.
And why the singleton Shard Volley and Spark Elemental?
They're not bad cards, but ... why singleton?
>also should I buy Slivers or is it ass
It didn't get into the top 16 decks by being ass.
But it also didn't stay near the bottom for being great.
If you like the playstyle, pick it up. Otherwise don't.
Magic is a /game/.
It's fine to be a tryhard, but at least have fun.
>>>46129511 Mythic=constructed staple
>>>46130807 Man you guys are dicks.
You must be new.
>>46132001
Speculators got bored.
>>>46130241 Is there a simple combo to generate infinite amount of mana in pauper ?
Speaking of which, I made the mistake of posting tis right before the last thread died. >>46129080
But not really, WotC went out of their way to ban every viable combo deck in Pauper.
>>46132177
>WotC went out of their way to ban every viable combo deck in Pauper.
Aren't there less than ten cards on the banlist? Sure, some stuff was banned but I'd hardly call it going out of their way.
>>46132177
Yeah. I think I would have enjoyed learning Slivers more than a burn deck. I just wanted to hop right in but burn is so boring I might pick up Slivers or Acid Trip. Maybe in a month though, my wife says I've already used my allowance this month.
>>46132166
list ?
>>46132517
No idea now, it was the average UR delver midrange.
>>46132551
>To beat delver, you need to play delver
thanks senpai
>>46132586
Its k now, we banned cloud :D
Hey guys, it's me Mark "Best dev" Rosewater!
How about you post your fun brews and what is broken so we can see if this is a FUN format or not
>>46132802
fuck you
>>>46132443 Aren't there less than ten cards on the banlist?
9 cards.
>Sure, some stuff was banned but I'd hardly call it going out of their way.
Let's take a look.
Initially Banned
>Cranial Plating (not combo related)
Absolutely bananas in affinity.
>Frantic Search
A good ritual on good dig.
Downright silly in storm.
January 2013
This is pre-Guildgates, so most decks were mono-colored.
>Invigorate (not combo related)
I would say inb4 infect, but infect already won.
>Grapeshot
Banned to kill a successful combo deck.
Reason given was only white had a good answer, and some colors had no answer at all.
Wouldn't break the format if unbanned (in the presence of multicolored decks).
>Empty the Warrens
Banned to kill a successful combo deck.
No reason given; of note, every color had a good answer.
Wouldn't break the format if unbanned.
September 2013
>Cloudpost (combo related, but they also banned the relevant wincon)
Banned to weaken URpost (now URtron). Also a cornerstone of Temporal Fissure (along with Cloud of Faeries).
Wouldn't break the format if unbanned (in the absence of Cloud of Faeries).
>Temporal Fissure
Banned to kill a successful combo deck.
Reason given was that the deck was "unfun" to play against.
Wouldn't break the format if unbanned (in the absence of either Cloudpost or Cloud of Faeries).
January 2015
>Treasure Cruise (not combo related)
First set of bans after it's release.
Also banned in Modern and Legacy, and restricted in Vintage.
January 2016
Only one popular combo deck remaining (Esper Familiars).
It's on the slowside and any creature removal can disrupt it.
>Cloud of Faeries
Banned to kill Esper Familiars.
Reason given was to make the format "less blue". Esper Familiars deck was also cited.
The ban /did/ weaken other decks that needed it, but other bansDelverwould have worked better
Wouldn't break the format if unbanned.
I'm 31, wife, kid, house, bills. I just watched a pauper burn vs sliver go to turn 35. What the fuck am I doing with my life. I even ordered MTGO and net decked. I'll never play this game. I don't have any friends.
What the fuck is wrong with me? Pic related.
>>46133415
You want hobbies and friends, but you don't have the willpower to commit to them.
So you're settling for imagining having hobbies (and maybe friends).
My advice is "don't settle".If you need a good mantra, try "today is my only today".
>>46129736
Its also a flyer, which is primarily a blue ablility.
>>46131656
Also 11 common changelings. Still not viable yet.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&text=+[changeling]&rarity=+[C]&type=+[%22Creature%22]
>>>46132076 can't into reading comprehension
>Anyone else hoping for a good common demon in SoI?
>>46133710
>Hoping for more than a simple (and shitty) beatstick
>NWO magic
hahahahaha
>>46133710
>Gatherer
Just off urself mah man and use magiccards.info
>>>46133719 you're not allowed to dream
;_;
>>46133734
Can't be assed to learn the search syntax.
>>46133749
>press "advanced"
>????
>High quality photos and oracle text plus non-eye bleeding backgrounds
You're not allowed to dream until you kill MaRo.
>>46133487
At least I didn't spend real money on 3 duel decks and try to have my wife learn with me! Haha! Ha! Awwwwe.
>>46133819
Why don't you go to your nearest LGS anon ?
>>46133835
It's a bunch of furries or weaboos, if not that then smelly fat guys I'm fedoras and leather jackets who wear fingerless gloves. Every one of them with the social skills of a brick of shit. There is a older store here but it's just a bunch of old hippies who hold private vintage meetups and have been into it since it's inception.
Might go there to see if I can make a few cheap pauper decks from the Commons bin though.
>>46129444
16 mountains with 4 blast is too low. Drop the caves for more mountains.
I also don't like Needle Drop, and would probably replace with Faithless Looting or Dangerous Wagers.
>>46133761
Leave
>>46133719
Delver of Secrets and Gary are both NWO commons
>>46134027
Mark, it is time for you to sleep.
I know Sabbath is over and you're allowed to shill, that doesn't mean you should pull an all nighter.
>>46134020
Thanks, I do see the caves in almost every single burn deck I've seen, but I'll mess around with it.
>>>46133761 High quality
Compared to gatherer sure. But that's a joke, right?
Everyone and their uncle is using the HQ scans torrent.
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/m14/114.jpg
http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1458453467975.jpg
>>46133819
Forcing your wife to learn isn't a very smart idea, but buying a duel deck as a learning tool is fucking awful.
What do you think the free (while supplies lastthey never do) 30 "sample decks" are for?
>>46132802
4 Freed From The Real
4 Arbor Elf
3 Lifespark Spellbomb
2 Wind Zendikon
4 Fertile Ground
2 Sheltered Aerie
2 Axebane Guardian
2 Viridian Longbow
1 Valakut Invoker
4 Drift of Phantasms
2 Trinket Mage
1 Heliod's Pilgrim
4 Muddle The Mixture
2 Sea Gate Oracle
3 Overgrown Battlement
2 Wall of Tinder
2 Halimar Depths
1 Seat of the Synod
7 Forest
1 Tree of Tales
3 Thornwood Falls
4 Simic Growth Chamber
*30 card
>>46134108
Never heard of free sample decks.
>>46134046
On one hand it's good to have a cycle effect, but on the other hand if you are forced to play it as an actual land it really hurts your speed.
Not really a fan of Spark Elemental either, as if the game drags on and they get blockers he loses value.
>>46134158
WotC has been giving those away every year since 1997.
http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Sample_decks
>>46134209
I guess no actual newbies ever get these since most card shop owners are shitheads.
>>46129444
Wow this list is shit. Learn to build.
I don´t hate the card. it's strong but very fun to play with and against.
>>46129985
Please just do not play tron.
>>46134108
That deck looks really cool. What are you looking for with the Muddles though? Maybe better to play something like Gigadrowse or Maybe even something like Commune with the Gods?
>>46134454
why ?
>>46134530
Because it's beating his ass in?
New fad of the moment is Stompy in reaction to Mono u Delver bullshit.
ITT: People who don't realise that the 3/2 flier for U that spawned entire Legacy decks and all of the cards that enable it are legal in pauper
>>46131776
Rarity is largely determined by how good the card is in limited. Most constructed playable cards are bombs in limited and therefore end up in higher rarities. Delver is rare kind of card that's very good in constructed but not very good in limited and can therefore be printed at common.
>>46134926
But this isn't R&D we get delver is broken beyond all recognition.
Also fow isn't legal:^)
>>46134942
>Also fow isn't legal :^)
Oh no, you have to settle for Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, and Daze :^(
>>46134958
And no fetchlands ;v(
But I mean, a beatstick can never be broken
>>46134989
>And no fetchlands ;v(
You can always run Evolving Wilds/Terramorphic Expanse. This makes running Gurmag Angler more viable too. And don't forget that following a Brainstorm with a Ponder or Preordain isn't the worse thing in the world either.
>>46134996
>Using those fetchlands
No. Tempo loss is just too big.
Armadillo Cloak should be a must in sliver decks right?
>>46135014
This is pauper you faggot.
>>46129459
>blue shouldent have great creatures.
No you dipshit, it just shouldent have a lot of them. Unless you want to see mono blue that only plays full counter or has to splash white to deal any dmg you will give blue something. Red has a few counterspells, so dose green, white, and black. So why the fuck shouldent blue get a good creat. from time to time?
>>46135028
TEMPOLOSS.
TOO.
FUCKING.
BIG.
>>46135050
>Opponents have to run 2 mana removal instead of 1 mana removal
>WAAHHHH MUH FETCHLAND ONLY LETS ME CAST DAZE I WANNA PLAY TARN WITH MY DELVER IN PAUPER ;________________;
>>46134267
>>46134108
Why the fuck would experienced players or store owners try to get the sample decks?! It's not like they contain anything good. I gathered a few of them over the years but I got most from goodie bags at events and such. The best I ever saw in it was a Vampire Nighthawk or something.
>>46135055
>instead of 1 mana removal
????
¿¿¿¿????
>>46135043
>Unless you want to see blue that only plays full counter
>splash white to deal any dmg
Blue can win using methods other than damage.
>>46135083
>Mememilling
>Calling that a win condition
Pauper general, here's a thought exercise. You are in charge of reworking the color pie. What abilities would you give each color so that it would be enjoyable to both play with and play against that color?
>>46135091
It's still viable.
How long would it take to grind 500tix playing pauper and draft? So far I've entered 6 drafts and won 5, but I'm only up like... 60tix.
>>46135118
not all that much. Plus milling tends to be a late game win, which makes it easy target for a lot of tokenspan/burn decks. If someone beat you with it they either had a very good deck or you were not paying attension.
>>46135050
But pauper is a tapped land format and top8 decks regularly run evolving wilds..
>>46135099
More library manipulation in more colors. Stuff like red exiling top of the library
>>46135279
no no no no, i wont fucking deal with red burn decks that can mill two, there is a limit to how much bullshit i can take with my poor blue/white deck.
>>46135099
Blue loses untapping
red gains untapping
green loses card draw
red loses rituals and gains cost reduction
black regains rituals
>>46135158
But that still doesn't cut out the fact that milling is still a win condition. Sure, it can be difficult or niche, but it's still a win condition for blue.
>>46135383
It still doesn't cut the fact that blue decks need a good crit from time to time. And plus, i dont think you can build a working blue mill deck in pauper.
>>46135290
Not sure if srs
>>46135405
>And plus, i dont think you can build a working blue mill deck in pauper.
You can.
However it goes into turns every single time. Basically go UB teachings with curse was wincon or UB "counter everything forever" without teachings and tome as wincon.
If Delver really was a colour pie break, MonoG stompy would splash blue for it.
>>46135405
I do agree that a pauper mill deck is far fetched, I still think that blue has enough powerful cards at the moment.By the way, I don't hate Delver, I just got TRIGGERED about some people think damage is the only win condition for blue. Which is weird since I only care about Green and White
>>46135436
>Splashing
>In pauper
>Delver
>In a non-spell spamming deck without topdeck manipulation
mark pls
>>46135446
i will agree that it's not the only, but it is the main one. Plus blue is not all that op as everyone makes it out to be. Getting a more powerfull crit from time to time would be a nice way to say "sorry" for throwing half a billion sea monsters which have a high attack but are useless in like all formats.
>>46135459
That's my point.
>>46129985
I see what you mean, and I might test it.
One thread without delver bitching and I'd be so happy.
>>46134108
I tweaked your list. Suggestions?
2 Arbor Elf
3 Axebane Guardian
1 Commune with the Gods
4 Drift of Phantasms
3 Fertile Ground
7 Forest
4 Freed from the Real
3 Gigadrowse
1 Halimar Depths
1 Island
3 Lifespark Spellbomb
1 Orochi Leafcaller
2 Overgrown Battlement
2 Ponder
2 Sea Gate Oracle
2 Sheltered Aerie
4 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Steel Wall
1 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Thornwood Falls
1 Tree of Tales
3 Trinket Mage
1 Valakut Invoker
1 Viridian Longbow
2 Voyaging Satyr
2 Wind Zendikon
Voyaging Satyr because if you enchant an island/bounceland with fertile ground the freed goes infinite. Arbor Elf only works with the Sheltered Aerie (but does seem necessary in early ramp)
Longow and Invoker can both be fetched. There´s a bunch of artifact hate around and Invoker gets around that plus mid-combo it cannot be removed.
Tree of Tales to be searched by Trinket Mage if necessary.
Steel Wall for if you want to combo of with Axebane and have access to a Trinket Mage and no other defenders.
Orochi Leafcaller to at least make the Battlement combo or the Arbor elf combo possible.
Gigadrowse to eot tap out the opponent and combo off freely.
Drift of Phantasms gets Freed from the Real, Valakut Invoker, Axebane Guardian and even Trinket Mage (rarely) or Sea Gate Oracle (only theoretically) if necessary, plus it has defender so can work for the Axebane combo.
Commune with the Gods/Ponder. I am thinking it should be 3x Ponder but I was a bit scared of having too little blue mana.
Should this card be reprinted at common?
>>46137613
It could be. I don't think it's power level would get in the way.
I have never played MTGO before but want to play some pauper. Should I start or is it just a huge clusterfuck that will die in a few years anyway?
I want to build Tron and Affinity but I only have four Chromatic Stars. What should I replace them with and what deck would suffer the least from a replacement?
>>46135063
I wasn't saying stores took them privately (well ... some do).
What I was trying to say is that store always get a small supply.
>>46135865 see >>46075885
Last thread complained about the card in 3 of it's 322 replies, and complained about the deck in 7 more posts.
>>46138501 *46134108
>>>46135874 Voyaging Satyr because if you enchant an island/bounceland with fertile ground the freed goes infinite.
I missed this card somehow. Voyager Satyr into a boucneland looks amazing though.T3
>Arbor Elf only works with the Sheltered Aerie (but does seem necessary in early ramp)
Sheltered Aerie or Fertile ground.
Maybe it would work better with fetches, but I /will/ have a forest out.
>Longow and Invoker can both be fetched. There´s a bunch of artifact hate around and Invoker gets around that plus mid-combo it cannot be removed.
I know. But Viridian Longbow wasn't singleton because it is also a useful card.
>Tree of Tales to be searched by Trinket Mage if necessary.
Already had one.
>Steel Wall for if you want to combo of with Axebane and have access to a Trinket Mage and no other defenders.
My combo is redundant to the point where that shouldn't be a concern.
But Shield Sphere > Steel Wall
>Orochi Leafcaller to at least make the Battlement combo or the Arbor elf combo possible.
Battlement was just there for ramp, but that does look pretty nice.
>Gigadrowse to eot tap out the opponent and combo off freely.
A bit too blue intensive for my taste. It /is/ on most lists, so I guess I'll consider it.
Muddle the Mixture was supposed to support comboing.
It can also tutor for Fertile Ground and Overgrown Battlement (and Voyager Satyr).
>Drift of Phantasms gets Freed from the Real, Valakut Invoker, Axebane Guardian and even Trinket Mage (rarely) or Sea Gate Oracle (only theoretically) if necessary, plus it has defender so can work for the Axebane combo.
I know. It also gets Heliod's Pilgrim (which I'm strongly considering cutting) or Sheltered Aerie.
>Commune with the Gods/Ponder. I am thinking it should be 3x Ponder but I was a bit scared of having too little blue mana.
"Redundancy means I don't need consistency" is my Dao of shitbrewing.
But you're right, Halimar Depths and Sea Gate Oracle aren't enough by themselves.
>>46138538
Why not try to marry both redunacy and consistency?
>>46138321
Chromatic Sphere.
Or make both decks and move the Chromatic Stars when you want to use either deck.
>>46138950
Because that's difficult and I'm incompetent.
>>46137613
too complicated :v)
Why is Chromatic Star like 5 Dollars and Chromatic Sphere a dollar? Aren't they basically the same?
>>46140379
One gives you a card when you sac it to Atog and the other one doesn't. It's probably also played in another format to get the price that high.
>>46135065
>LIGHTNING
>BOLT
>>46129600
Aren't there way better things to be playing with tron anyway?
>>46137613
The only set I'd see them reprinting threshold as a mechanic would be EMA or some supplemental set.
>>46140500
Aa, makes sense, am just happy that I got mine before the price went up
>>46142401
That's what meant, I hope they had pauper in mind when they designed Eternal Masters, but probably not,,
