How do you have a good lawful evil character?
>>46122910
you don't, they're evil you doofus
>>46122910
I can't they are evil, if they were good they would be lawful good, you are a moron.
Kill yourself.
>>46122910
Have the same objective as the rest of the PCs, and the patience to work with them towards that goal, without rocking the boat.
"Defeat the greater evil" and all that.
Evil is an abstract
>>46122910
OP here, I should have been more clear.
I meant good as in quality wise, not as in actually a good guy. Sorry for being retarded
>>46123168
Just play chaotic retarded, faggot.
>>46122910
It really does depend on the setting, especially if good actions = good alignment and a good afterlife.
But generally speaking, a good LE PC is one that is like "I believe in synergy, therefore by not pissing off this group of mostly good people I stand to gain more" Mostly it's the idea that pretending to be moral is beneficial, but in cases where one is not required to be moral, being completely ruthless. A good manifestation of this idea is "I'll fuck up anyone who fucks with my comrades, without them knowing about it"
>>46123168
generic black knight. or lord soth.
Assuming you mean good as in how to play one effectively?
I find it helps if they have a code. A set of rules that they won't violate under any circumstances. Never break your word, never harm children, stuff like that. I mean, that's kinda what defines the Lawful side of Lawful Evil, but I find it helps to write it down because Lawful Evil really cares about the specific wording, so that they can take advantage of any loopholes. They're also ultimately concerned with self-interest first and foremost, and assume everyone else thinks the way they do, so they're very wary about contracts.
This really comes into play in civilized environments; living in society means following an unwritten contract; a set of rules for which violation will get you ostracized and vilified if not outright incarcerated or executed. The fact it's often an unwritten one is infuriating to many Lawful Evils, and they will do their best to figure out what it would be written as and use that to avoid getting entangling in the web of unwritten rules while using their knowledge of it to manipulate others.
Take that never harm children example from before? It doesn't sound very evil, but a Lawful Evil character doesn't (usually) follow it out of concern for the child's well being. They're concerned with what breaking it would do to their reputation, and they'll likely consider ways to use that to their advantage and sully the reputation of their enemies.
Once you understand the rules they're trying to follow, you can start figuring out how they'd use those rules to benefit themselves and manipulate others. From there you're well on your way to fleshing out a good lawful evil character.
You take a Lawful Good character, and you keep reason but take away accountability.
>>46122910
You don't play D&D
>>46122910
What, like he feels evil but does good, or feels good but does evil?
Both work I guess.
>An honor bound knight serving a corrupt king. He is sworn to his duty, and believes that in some way, despite it all, the situation is better than if he were to let another perform his duties. At best, he believes he can save his king and redeem the country, at worst, he feels trapped in the bonds of his oath. Regardless, as the party brings him down at the steps of the keep, he thanks them with his last breath for freeing him from his oath, and tells them to do what he should have, but lacked strength to do.
Best for the bbeg's trusted general.
And the opposite
>A power obsessed student of the cursed arts, he has gained horrific powers and learned unspeakable truths through his deals and contracts with blasphemous and obscene entities from beyond the realm of mortals. He twists words and carefully manipulates his deals and contracts, but his cursed and demon-affiliated condition has rendered him physically bound to the oaths and agreements he makes. In a twist of fate, and a single poor judgment of intelligence, he has bound himself to the service of a just and caring wandering cleric with a surprisingly vast knowledge of law and a lineage of magistrates and court bailiffs.
Would make a good character if you had a buddy to do it with I think.
>>46123168
Basically what you're looking for is 3 things.
1) An objective: This is the thing you will pursue to the detriment of anyone else. A lot of classic LE characters have wealth or power as their objective. Whats yours?
2) A code: This is where the lawful comes in. You need some laws to be lawful but if you actually follow the laws of whatever land you're in then you could be rendered incapable of committing evil so, instead, decide on a code to follow. Chivaly perhaps.
3) A backstory: Every hero has a reason they became one, same with every villain. A good on will seperate you from a lot of shitty LE characters.
Of course, if this is as a PC then you need to add a 4th thing, which is a reason for cooperating with others and for them not to outright murder you immediately. Maybe you need them to achieve your goals and they will accept you as the lesser of 2 evils?
>>46123168
Start with Lawful Neutral's obsession with order, structure, and keeping bargains.
Add extreme callousness in pursuing this obsession.
Shake with a few additional character traits and stir.
>>46123803
>The fact it's often an unwritten one is infuriating to many Lawful Evils, and they will do their best to figure out what it would be written as and use that to avoid getting entangling in the web of unwritten rules
You mean they're autistic?
>>46123811
So like a smitebot with reason?
>>46122910
Selfish and follows the law. Their main motivation is their own wants with everyone else a distant second but they operate within the law. Most likely sticking to the letter of the law and exploiting loopholes.
It would be hard to play one in a DnD group though since 99 out of 99 PCs are chaotic good
>>46123920
It's more that they want to manipulate the law to their benefit, and having it clearly laid out makes it easier to find the loopholes. Unwritten rules make it harder to game the system.
Try to be like Caesar. Most men are bound by honor and morality. You on the other hand are not. You are playing to win, whatever your goal may be.
Your goal should be in the same vein as the rest of the party so as to prevent interparty conflict, it's just your methods that are questionable at times.
Don't do something unless it benefits you, pointless acts of evil only make people dislike you, so it is better to only do evil things if you can benefit from it.
For lawful evil, "evil" isn't a motivation, it's a method.
>>46123937
That might be one potential result, though it seems somewhat contradictory.
>>46122910
Vader isn't lawful. He plans to betray the emperor and goes about killing his subordinates on a whim. I'd say he's Neutral Evil but functioning with a strong authoritarian regime.
>>46125757
>Vader isn't lawful.
"You don't know the power of the Dark Side. I MUST obey my master."
The only reason he plans to usurp Palpatine is because it's written into the Rule of 2. The apprentice must challenge the master for the right to rule as Dark Lord of the Sith to ensure the strongest always rules.
Other than that, he always follows orders.
>>46125757
>Vader isn't lawful.
"With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict, and bring order to the galaxy"
>>46123860
N-no, I just explained it horribly. I meant good quality, thank you for the good ideas though.
>>46126412
And then there's the fact that he went back on his agreement with Lando.
>Other than that, he always follows orders.
He's part of an authoritarian regime, where you pretty much need to follow orders unless you're gonna orchestrate a coup, which is exactly what he was proposing.
>>46126647
You think that Chaotic and Neutral characters don't have reasons/excuses for doing things? Or is it the "order" part you're talking about? Because a Chaotic guy who wants to be in power doesn't want shit in disarray (unless he's just insane).
>>46127119
As far as being a sith goes, Vader was dollowing the rules to a T.
Betrayal is part of the sith code. The strong usurp, control and betray the weak because they can and the sith code demands that they do.
Act like a cop.
>>46127174
>The strong usurp, control and betray the weak because they can
Which is 100% Chaotic. Rationalizing it as part of a code doesn't change the fact that you're behaving in a Chaotic fashion. Also, that Sith code is post hoc garbage.
>>46123881
>>46123879
both good advice
>>46127436
Is it really chaotic when its the code imposed upon you by your master? I mean, I would usually take Chaotic as anarchistic. Wreck shit, topple governments, everyone is now free sorta thing. The Sith code is basically structured betrayal and oppression.
It is post hoc, true. But regardless, he wasn't exactly chaotic, rather he swung between good and evil for some fucking reason.
>>46127119
>went back on his agreement with Lando.
Lawful evil characters will usually only betray those whom they intended to betray from the beginning. Hitler is a good real world equivalent.(not that I truly believe in good or evil in the real world)
>>46127119
>the fact that he went back on his agreement with Lando
I'm going to invoke Obi-wan here and declare "A Certain Point of View". Lawful evil characters will twist things to their own ends, such as the wording of specific rules/laws. Now, Vader goes a step further in say that "[he's] altering the deal" but that still falls under the above umbrella, I think. Certainly open to interpretation.
Point I'm getting at is that his behaviour is, by and large, primarily lawful evil. Doesn't always line up that way but for the most part, it does.
>>46127554
>Lawful evil characters will usually only betray those whom they intended to betray from the beginning.
Yeah, that's not Lawful. That's Neutral at best.
>>46127579
I still think that Vader only looks Lawful because he's operating within the framework of a militarized, authoritarian regime. You can't tell if a soldier is Lawful just because he salutes, says "yes, sir!" and does what his superior officers command him to do. I mean, I guess you can tell that he isn't defiantly Chaotic, but other than that, anything goes.
>>46127692
Vader is lawful, but i'm not sure if neutral or evil. Another great low profile LE character is Dolores Umbridge from the Harry Potter series.
>>46122910
My ex wife's divorce attorney
>>46127794
>strangles people to death who displease him
>engages in torture
>is cool with blowing up whole planets for political reasons
>not sure if neutral or evil
Sure.
>>46127794
Id say initially evil though he occasionally swings towards good as the series progresses.
It seems, in a way, that he desires redemption so he grasps it when he sees a chance. However, the Emperor keeps on impressing on him that he has no chance. As a result, he kind swings back and forth by the end of the series.
>>46127853
Alderaan was Tarkin's doing, though.
>>46128113
Yeah, and Hitler was the only bad Nazi, because the rest were just following orders.
>>46128270
Just clarifying, buddy.
>>46128382
I think that's why he said "Cool with" rather than saying he did it
>>46127119
>You think that Chaotic and Neutral characters don't have reasons/excuses for doing things? Or is it the "order" part you're talking about? Because a Chaotic guy who wants to be in power doesn't want shit in disarray (unless he's just insane).
The distinction here is between Authoritarian Evil and Fuck The Law Evil. Vader is clearly the former.
For the most part, alignments are vague, simplistic categories, Law & Chaos doubly so. Some LE characters will go back on their word, some CE characters won't.
