Drown Orgrimmar Edition
Discuss the viability of the Warcraft Universe as a tabletop RPG setting.
Last thread
>>46083298
Platinum jaina a beast
>>46100698
Fucking blue dragons, man. She was going to go through with it; the spell had already been cast!
So, on the subject of the idea that would never happen where the Burning Legion manages to destroy prime-timeline Azeroth, and people jump ship to AU Draenor and set up shop there, there was another idea a friend presented to me. Basically, another status quo shake-up that would never happen, but I think would be cool.
His idea was that, once the Old Gods become even more prominent, the two-faction system shifts. The Alliance and Horde become firmer allies, but themselves have massive separatist movements engineered by the Old Gods, and the opposition turns from Alliance vs Horde to Free Peoples vs Old Gods, essentially. The two factions, for the most part, share races and classes, but with twists. Shadow Paladins for the Old Gods, for example.
Like I said, it would never happen, but I think it could be cool. Maybe for WoW 2, if that would ever exist.
>>46100830
or we could have AU alliance invade AU Draenor
>>46100830
>Players jump into AU Azeroth
>Utilizing the experience and knowledge from their Azeroth, every single problem their Azeroth suffered get resolved in the most easiest way imaginable (including beating the unholy crap out of Deathwing so hard the world would tremble)
And then there was this thing with Jaina going so far as marrying AU Terenas so to make sure AU Arthas won't turn into the Lich King.
>>46100830
>The two factions, for the most part, share races and classes, but with twists
How would that work mechanically, though? What could differentiate, say, the "shadow" paladins so that they're more than black-and-purple reskins of the grossly incandescent originals?
>>46101188
It'd mostly be aesthetic changes.
>>46101188
Grossly neon, as it were.
>>46100241
>UED
Got some serious feelings right now...the United Earth Directorate was one of the best things in SC.
Hope they come back and fucking CONQUER the sector.
>>46100897
I like the idea of visiting AU Azeroth created by the Horde not invading, but no Horde invasion means no Alliance. All the human kingdoms, Stormwind, Lordaeron, Gilneas, Kul Tiras, Stromgarde, Alterac would still exist.
And they'd have never been friends with the dwarves of Ironforge, who would never have made peace with the Dark Irons, who would still be ruling Blackrock Mountain as servants of Ragnaros. The Elves, both High and Night, would still be isolationist dicks fighting their petty wars against nearby trolls.
Tauren would still be mostly nomads wandering Kalilmdor, occasionally fighting the quillboar.
It also means no Scourge. So Sylvanas would still be Ranger General over in Quel'Thalas. The Sunwell would still be up and running.
So would Teldrassil, the the World Tree.
>>46101286
>Grossly neon
Fel magic out the wazoo with heavy inspiration from Tyrant Velhari's attacks?
>>46101297
The anon who did the post in that thread here.
Indeed. I hope they'll waltz in with a larger force and with all the techno stuff they have, forcing everyone in the Koprulu Sector to go into a Forged Alliance like in SupCom.
Blizzard didn't have time to make them into a faction in their own rights and justified them being Terrans with the same tech because they needed to somehow manage to supply themselves on the spot, hence why they had to downgrade their forces to being simply Terrans.
The fluff states they are Terrans 2.0 in terms of advanced tech. And this tech is OP enough to make the Protoss have a serious challenge.
>>46101322
>So Sylvanas would still be Ranger General over in Quel'Thalas.
Alleria would be, Sylvanas replaced her after she went missing
>>46101446
Oh yeah.
Wonder how they'd react to evil undead Sylvanas showing up.
>>46101464
Hell, I wonder how evil undead Sylvanas would react to showing up in a Quel'Thalas that is 100% zombie free.
>>46101446
>>46101464
>>46101514
No matter what, it would be awkward in the extreme.
>>46101556
Well, unless she had some kind of psychotic breakdown over it and went full corruption. Then it would be less "awkward" and more "expansion's newest raid boss"
>>46101591
>went full corruption
>expansion's newest raid boss
That's the standard MO of Blizzard these days.
Azeroth being overrun by the burning legion would be pretty cool.
Blizzard could end Legion with us defeating some random big demon overlord kinda thing but in more of a "winning the battle, but not the war" kinda way.
We go to AU draenor only to go to AU Azeroth during the next new expansion and then preparing to retake our Azeroth.
>>46101650
I know, hence why I bring it up as an unfortunate possibility that is entirely in line with what happens in new content.
>>46101687
Seriously, I really am wondering if there is anyone legitimately evil in WarCraft.
Everyone is either a jerk, of a nicer shade, or pretty chill dudes, but never legitimately evil unless they get corrupted.
>>46101786
Dreadlords and Old Gods, mostly. They appear to be completely evil on their own without anyone corrupting them. They also happen to be the ones doing most of the heavy lifting on corrupting people, so its really just those guys ruining it for everybody.
>>46101786
Gul'dan
>>46101653
That would mean coming up an entire set of world to replace the current one.
WoW don't have the resource to do that anymore.
Its not a matter of writing but a matter of not having the budget.
>>46101786
Demons and Shadow-minions (like Old Gods) are inherently evil.
>>46101843
>>46101861
>>46101938
Wished there were more legitimately evil mortals.
And Gul'Dan got turned into a demon with a shit-eating grin and with chains that don't make any sense.
>>46101933
:'(
>>46101954
Unfortunately when bad guys turn into demons it suggests corruption was involved. Not to say that he wasn't evil before, but turning demonic definitely suggests that he's more evil now.
>>46101984
Hoping he'll dethrone Kil'Jaden and Archimonde as leaders and then go for Sargeras then.
>>46101954
Whats with the random fuckign horns and chains? The whole point of Gul'dan is that despite all the incredible power, and evil he was still just looking like an old orc. It was like an event horizon of evil, hiding the most powerful mortal even lived(before the retcons).
>>46102060
Bad writing and a ton of coke for Metzen. That is all.
>>46102030
I wouldn't mind Gul'dan being a Cobra Commander type enemy who hatches a whole bunch of crazy ideas and always manages to slip away when they collapse around him.
>>46102098
That would be fun to see.
>>46101786
Since Warcraft 3 has Blizzard been writing everything in the Warcraft-franchise as ambiguous, with no faction really being the D&D definition of evil.
However, just like Warhammer that attempts the same but goes full-out on everybody's arsehole-dick level being off the charts so everybody is still in varying shades of greys compared to eachother, so does Warcraft take nearly all of their factions and makes them temporarily misguided or reveals at a later point that an evil faction actually was misunderstood and attempted to fend off an even greater evil.
Up until this point, at least the Burning Legion and Sargeras were considered the ultimate evil, but Warcraft Chronicles actually retconned that, as well, so now Sargeras is trying to prevent an even greater evil from entering reality - By destroying all reality. (Yes, there's a more refined reason behind this, but come on, the consequence of Sargeras' plan will be to exterminate every single planet in the galaxy just to make sure)
So yeah, Blizzard have basically written themselves into a moronic spiral from which there is no escape by making everybody good, so there's valid reason to have the factions antagonise eachother, and pull villains out their arse to create justifiable antagonists that then immediately get subdued.
>>46101984
I think this time it is a voluntary ascension to demonhood. Gul'Dan has always been attempting to become more powerful until he would reach some level of godhood, being mutated to the point of being indistinguishable from a demon is probably an inconvenience he's willing to take on his road.
>>46102094
Are we done blaming Kosak now? Somebody a few threads back made a fairly good point that Metz-boy is actually so high up in the management that he's all but removed from writing lore, himself, and basically just nods off the stuff that is presented to him, while Kosak is one of the major authors now.
Sure, it doesn't take all of the blame and shame away, but it also puts the poor sod in a new perspective.
>>46101984
Gul'dan was kicked out of the Shadowmoon Clan(by Ner'zhul) before he went all in on the demon thing. He was already a greedy, self-serving asshole by the time he discovered the Legion and swore himself to Kil'Jaeden for even more power.
So I would put Gul'dan as a genuinely evil mortal who found a source of power to use in pursuit of his own gains.
>>46102342
Speaking of Gul'Dan, does anyone remember that old quest for Night Elves in Auberdine before Cata where you find a big ass red crystal that was turning Moonkin crazy?
Needed to try purfying it with Moonwell water and all you could see inside was like the lower portion of a jaw bone. Did they ever do anything with it or what? I remember doing that quest and being really excited to figure out what the hell it was in the first place.
>>46102409
Probably one of the many storylines Blizzard has completely forgotten about by now.
>>46102342
Just you wait until it is revealed that Gul'Dan actually had had a vision from a creature from a far-away planet, coloured in red and black, created to be the ultimate lifeform by its masters but ultimately spinning out of control and going on a cosmical rampage in order to never again be shackled by any tyrant. He is now on a global and selfless quest to become powerful enough to defeat this evil creature, and is even willing to be declared the vilest of criminals by his peers just to stopShadow the Hedgehog.
>>46102224
>Up until this point, at least the Burning Legion and Sargeras were considered the ultimate evil, but Warcraft Chronicles actually retconned that, as well, so now Sargeras is trying to prevent an even greater evil from entering reality - By destroying all reality. (Yes, there's a more refined reason behind this, but come on, the consequence of Sargeras' plan will be to exterminate every single planet in the galaxy just to make sure)
Eh, it doesn't really change much. The means are still evil as shit. Just because he has good intentions doesn't mean we wouldn't be totally justified in beating him until he becomes another loot pinata.
>>46102483
The most sickening thing about that is that Blizzard just would do something that stupid.
>>46102224
>Make everyone good
It's truly moronic. I would understand if everyone was grey, but seriously how high they were with this stuff?
>>46102299
Seriously and people are buying this.
Was Blizzard's biggest mistake making the orcs become unwitting slaves to the Burning Legion? I feel like Metzen's dick-riding of Thrall is the center of the destruction of everything that made Warcraft notable as a franchise. That and fucking Med'an being mongrel god.
>>46102532
Yes, he's really a dick about it and his methods are absolutely atrocious and in some regard even absurd as fuck.
Yet because Blizzard decided to give him officially a "YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS IS REALLY FUCKING IMPORTANT" reason, they are in a position where they can declare him as a tragical antihero at their leisure. Technically speaking, that is cool, because nobody likes 80's cartoon villains in a setting where you actually witness bloody murder and genocide, but the authorteam seems to completely have missed the fact that first, you should give the tragic antihero-turned-villain some spotlight where the reader/player/consumer has a chance to properly relate to the character, so it feels like tragedy and more like another justification to continue the power creep.
>>46102532
Yeah, some anons act like Blizzard is trying to make Sargeras out to be a hero. Even with the change to his motivations in Chronicle, he's most certainly not a hero. He's absolutely evil. He may have good intentions, but that does not make him good, and that's even assuming that this isn't a solution he came up with during a descent into madness, or that he's being manipulated by the Void Lords be somehow playing into their hands.
>>46102683
No, that was an interesting period. Their biggest mistake was turning WoW's storylines into DBZ-tier power scaling.
>>46102710
Plus there was nothing wrong with the original lore. It had a sort of cosmic scope, that even a god of order can be slowly chipped away, even a titan can fall to despair and madness fighting an eternal war with demons.
>>46102753
Plus Sargeras leading the Burning Legion made Azeroth relevant because Azeroth was the first planet where the Makers "messed-up" and gave their creations free will, and destroying Azeroth gives Sargeras the excuse that he was destined to always be evil instead of falling from grace.
>>46101954
>that new model
Darkness Incarnate? More like DORKness Incarnate, am I right?
>>46102536
God damnit Jaina looks superslutty in that picture. It's probably the eyeshade, but hot damn.
>>46102671
I think it started in Warcraft 3. It was a different time back then and the popularity of being edgy was running out. Instead they went with the gritty version of "friendship!", which culminated with the mortals working together at Mount Hyjal and proved that everybody actually wants to do good. When WoW came around, they had to maintain that all factions and races were ultimately good, because who wants to play a villain race right?
They probably didn't even have their entire lore or timeline in mind and just decided to pile stuff upon stuff for each expansion, individually, but always maintaining their status quo.
You must admit, Chris being too far removed from actual writing himself is at the very least food for thought.
>>46102683
It's stated in the ending mission of the RoC Orc campaign by Grom that the chieftains accepted the demon's gift. sure they didn't know of the strings attached, but they largely also didn't care: They were suspicious of the Draenei already, those resentiments were simply extended, and at the very least Grom and Blackhand were described as very focused on martial prowess, so they'd pick up on the promise of being even stronker. After Draenor became a shithole, the orcs were simply too deeply in it and jumped to the occasion when they were promised a way out of it.
You could technically say they were unwitting pawns because the Legion, of course, had very sinister ulterior motives, but about all decisions made from the orcs were based on very real and very relatable needs and circumstances.
Their biggest mistake is a.) powercreep, as >>46102712 says, and b.) that their game design came first and then they wrote the lore to justify those design decisions, which I still strongly believe is the fault of autists who couldn't understand how Warcraft 3 units were just a representation and not to be taken at face value.
>>46101514
She'd probably hate it, because she has a hateboner for the living now. She threatened to pull Forsaken support out of Quel'thalas and let the remaining Scourge massacre everything outside of Silvermoon's walls unless Lor'themar pledged sin'dorei support to aid in Northrend.
She doesn't give a single solitary fuck about her living kin anymore- hell, she was planning on murdering Vareesa and raising her as undead herself.
Sylvanas only cares about Sylvanas at this point, because she's terrified of the big inky blackness of death after she committed suicide at ICC.
Hell, the only reason she wants the Forsaken around is so they can keep her not-dead, and her logic seems to be that if everyone in the world is undead and under her command, she will be safe from getting murdered (again) and thus will live as a frigid corpse for all eternity.
Such as I gathered it, anyway.
>>46103140
It's only a matter of time before she challenges Bolvar for the Lich King's crown.
>>46103140
She's reached a point where she can't be comfortable any more. The Forsaken were a massive force when the events in WoW started because it was right after Arthas fucked shit up in Lordaeron. Over time as the Forsaken's population dropped, she realized that she was going to get fucked up hard because even the orcs, who weren't born on the same planet, outnumbered the Forsaken to the point where the Kor'kron could "safeguard" the Undercity with no loss of manpower in Orgrimmar. Months after that, she loses her drive for existing because Arthas gets killed, and instead of finding peace she finds out that if she dies she's going to Nether anyways because she's damned with the rest of the undead.
Before the ICC raid, she had respect through fear and will to live. Now the rest of the Horde, even the Tauren, have their swords at their throats because she's desperate to "increase population" through the new plague and, like >>46103366 says, she's going to try to become the Jailor of the Damned in a mad bid to try and achieve her atonement.
>>46103129
>They probably didn't even have their entire lore or timeline in mind and just decided to pile stuff upon stuff for each expansion, individually, but always maintaining their status quo.
This, I feel like the had no concrete idea for long term story until MoP (when they started working on Chronicles).
>You must admit, Chris being too far removed from actual writing himself is at the very least food for thought.
this is barely speculation, we've got quotes from him from way back during TBC
>A lot of my story stuff on Warcraft these days is coming from a very high level, conceptualizing zones and characters, especially looking forward to future expansions – expanded content – I'm really keen to get in there and kind of create the broad strokes of things and then it really goes to special teams.
He goes onto note that he has sit downs with the teams to make sure they are on the right track, but the gist of it is that by the end of TBC he was working in more of an oversight capacity, as far as the game was concerned. At this point he's got even more projects to manage, so I would genuinely be surprised if he is doing much more than that these days.
He did however work on Chronicles, as he is listed as co-author along with Matt Burns and Robert Brooks.
Time is money, friend
>>46103577
Good day to you!
Why the hell is this not a 3-4 person mount. It makes no sense and would be so fucking neat.
Alliance version? Just use that Gilnean Carriage from the Worgen starting Zone that could fit the same amount of people.
>>46103585
King's honor, friend
>>46103613
I'm still surprise there isn't a five-person mount where the four passengers can use ranged weapons, so for once in the Catababbies lives they have a reason to ride to the physical dungeon and can gang up on level 19 fuckers who entered the Contested Zone and wreck shit up.
>>46103585
My, you're a tall one!
>>46103676
You know, I think that vendor short changed me. ...Get it? SHORT changed... Oh, never mind.
>>46103585
ah! I've been expecting you
>>46101954
>>46103090
It looks better in orange. I think the model might imply he absorbed the power of the Avatar of Sargeras.
All the same, I'm surprised there hasn't been more backlash like there was for Xavius's old model. It just looks fucking stupid and makes the character hilarious rather than threatening.
>>46103719
At this point we are used to the abuse.
>>46103400
>she finds out that if she dies she's going to Nether anyways because she's damned with the rest of the undead.
Well, that... is extremely unconfirmed, and it's probably just because of all the atrociously evil things she's done in the name of revenge.
>>46103863
HER perspective is that she's going to the Nether from being undead, because even kid-Arthas ended up in the Nether in her vision when she an-hero'd. She's going to keep abusing the Val'kyr until she discovers the miracle to come back to true life.
>>46103976
Well, she's going to be talking to Helya, the First Val'kyr and creator of the Kvaldir, so odds are that she's going to get that mess sorted out in one way or another.
>>46104018
Keep yah feet on the ground
>>46104231
>says the flightmaster as you take off on a gryphon
>>46104231
Wash yer back.
>>46104291
What can I do for you?
SEEEEE YA LATER!
>>46104403
I buy and sell
STRENGTH AND HONOR!
>>46103400
>in a mad bid to try and achieve her atonement.
It would be kind of silly if Sylvanas actually jumped to this option for atonement instead of going through more sensible, less potentially disastrous options like starting a charity.
>>46104605
LITERALLY started the Nazi Zombie Party.
>>46104641
I guess Operation Undead Paperclip is out of the question, then? The gnomish space program could always use undying, unbreathing test pilots, right?
>>46104703
STILL shocked that the Gnomes haven't reverse-engineered the technology behind the Exodar to have space travel. If underground dwarves can build planes, why can't gnomes build spaceships? And why can't goblins have the Russian space program?
>>46104703
So, this then?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiW-SIUBLUM
>>46104761
>reverse-engineered the technology behind the Exodar to have space travel
Don't the gnomes have a space center in Outland with rocket launch pads?
>>46104761
>Comrade Chairman Gazlowe, Launch Bay One reportink, all systems operational. Ve are green across ze board.
>Readink you loud ant clear, Launch Bay One. Countink down to Launch...5....4....3....2....1....All thrusters fire! Laika is avay!
And then they shoot a worgen into space.
>>46104916
And then it explodes in a shower of gold, because goblins.
>>46104916
>>46104761
>They're on space
>Floating necropolis dogfighting burning legion forces
Guys, I just had anbatshit insaneideia moments ago.
I imagined the formation of the first human kingdoms, back 1,200 years ago, followed of 200~300 years of science development and rational thinking. Then, they start diving on nationalistic ideals, and the prospect of an united empire is born. However, in the same ground you have Garithos-like politicians and HFY preachers, these ones slowly, but surely, gaining influence and power.
After some localized small conflicts and alliance treatises, the structure for the future empire is finished, but none royal family has a legitimate claim. Then, one radical group, which is backed by disguised Neltharion and his brood, ascends and seize power.
This new empire is largely industrialized, has a HUGE army, and will not stop until it subjugate the world.
I want your ideas on about the geopolitical table of this Azeroth.Or just your hate, whatever.
P.S: humans still do magic, but the majority of them don't see it as a big deal.
>>46105960
So basically the entire plot of vanilla WoW but Stormwind has dwarven technology and elven magic and Neltharion is playing the role of Prestor?
>>46105960
Hell, that storyline could realistically happen if the elves had refused to teach the humans magic and the humans had to turn to the Dwarves and gnomes when the Amani attacked. Sure, the High Elves would of probably been wiped out but it'd probably lead to an incredibly industrious human kingdom based on invention and technology rather than magic.
>>46106015
No, humans are more like Vinci empire.
>>46106080
God I loved that game, it's a shame so much content was cut, and that we never got a sequel.
You guys DO visit Scrolls of Lore, right...?
Red Shirt Guy spoiled a shit load about the Illidan novel.
Illidan and his forced successfully destroyed Nathreza during BC, the dreadlord home world. They were about to invade Argus and do the same but we fucked it up. Demon Hunters going to Mardum was a last ditch plan.
Illidan was fucked up beyond comprehension somehow before we fought him so we only fought a weak Illidan. Also, Illidan had nothing to do with the Shattrath attack.
Also, Akama is a faggot and Illidan intended to give back Black Temple to him but Akama betrayed him. Also, Illidan apparently does 2 really heinous things in the book to complete his goals.
Kael'thas went dark and didn't contact Illidan immediately after he settled into Netherstorm.
Illidan is over Tyrande.
Maiev considered slaughtering the BT raid party for "taking her kill" even though she finished off Illidan. Bitch is mad.
>>46105960
>>46106080
>tfw heavy artillery and gas-masked soldiers in Eversong Woods
>>46106369
>Also, Illidan had nothing to do with the Shattrath attack.
didn't we already know this. Or at least highly suspect it. I always thought it was Kael who false flagged it to ensure that the alliance/horde/Naaru factions all spent their energies on dealing with Illidan rather than him. it backed fired a little when we stabbed him tempest keep, but that was merely a set back compared to getting Illidan put down.
>>46106369
See, all this would have been good to know beforehand. Now it just reads like another shitty retcon.
>>46106369
>Illidan is over Tyrande.
He says that, but... he spent 10,000 years contemplating how he'd murder everyone involved for his imprisonment, but her showing up was nearly enough to make him cry tears of joy from his charred eye sockets.
>>46106646
>didn't we already know this. Or at least highly suspect it. I always thought it was Kael who false flagged it to ensure that the alliance/horde/Naaru factions all spent their energies on dealing with Illidan rather than him.
Yes and yes.
He basically revealed it as a fact after he did the illusory gloating thing in front of A'dal, going, "AHAHA, you think I'd entrust the future to some blind, half-night-elf mongrel?!"
Illidan has been given a raw deal, but he's a pretty shitty person so I don't feel too broken up about it.
>>46106738
>>46106369
>Akama is a faggot
Addendum: Illidan was not forthcoming with his plans because hey, he didn't trust Akama as far as he could throw him. (Which is actually probably pretty far, forget I used that.)
As such, Akama didn't trust Illidan as far as he could throw HIM, which is a considerably smaller distance. Illidan did legit start going bonkers from crazy paranoia after Kael fell off the grid and he replayed his defeat by Arthas over and over in his head. As a result, he figured Akama, the newest member of his band of merry men, was liable to betray him much like Kael'thas likely did, so... he kinda pulled some of his soul out and bound it to his will so he had leverage.
That's when Akama decided to up-end things with the players' and Maiev's help.
Let's say Legion is over, and Illidan is still alive. He can't go back to the Black Temple but won't join Horde or Alliance, so he creates a third faction to rival them.
Where do you guys Illidan would build his capital?
Felwood? Southern Kalimdor? Blackrock Mountain?
>>46106369
SoL is based.
their legion discussion page has the best tags.
>illidindu nuffinrage
>illidan cuckrage
>warlords of shitposting
>all this salt
>>46106837
Uh... Or he could use the demonic star destroyer that his Illidari stole from Mardum.
>>46106837
Suramar
>>46106909
>Illidan uses his magic and rips Suramar off the ground and uses it like Dalaran 2.0
absolutely based tbqh
>>46106907
it's small as shit
>>46104761
>the Night Elves provide surprisingly large support to the Gnomish space program
>so that they can get closer to their god (and prevent Goblins from mining their deity)
>>46105960
>>46106080
Sounds kinda like Divinity: Dragon Commander.
I like it.
>>46106369
Geeze. They went overboard with "Illidan dindu nuthin' ". He is completely and totally innocent of everything and we're the assholes. They could've at least said that Burning Crusade was a period of insanity where he had trouble with reason due to Gul'dan's skull.
That book makes him completely flawless, which frustrates me; and this is coming as someone who actually likes Illidan.
>>46107240
>Sounds kinda like Divinity: Dragon Commander.
If only they hadn't cut out so much of their plans. It sounds like the full game would have been amazing.
>>46107695
Wait until you find out the truth about Broxigar.
>>46107695
>reading Warcraft novels
>ever
Warcraft's core lore is bad enough. The side lore from novels is just a horrid mess of mary sues and ass pulls.
>>46107729
How long until the new Void Gods are really good guys, too?
>>46107784
Did you know that the Old Gods are ALSO good guys because if they die, Azeroth dies with them?
Is Alexstrasza an evil, unforgiving sex-fiend?
Everything she does just seems like the absolute opposite of what a guardian of life should do.
>Crazy old man goes rogue and declares war on Dalaran.
>"My brother is irredeemable, he must be put down."
>Daughter is kidnapped and raped by said crazy old man.
>"She is irredeemable, she must be put down."
>Bolvar gets eaten alive by plague goo
>"I shall revive him as a flaming paraplegic"
>Lord of Undeath exposes himself during a crucial battle.
>"I shall take my time to plant flowers and look pretty as he kills more people and hides again."
>Evil flaming brother destroys Azeroth
>I shall do nothing, let him start doomsday cults and raise an army, then I shall fight him once in single combat."
>>46107695
>He is completely and totally innocent of everything
HE.
ALWAYS.
WAS.
>>46107895
>"I shall revive him as a flaming paraplegic"
>yfw in legion bolvar executes her and shitvanas
>>46107895
Well what do you expect after the Dragonmaw mindbroke her with there fat green cocks and addictive orc jizz?
![28d1527dd3876a3e0c505c4d9ea45d38[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/nxcmgKq.jpg "28d1527dd3876a3e0c505c4d9ea45d38[1].jpg")
>>46107895
The best part about her is her human form. Really shows how much of a cockwhore she is.
>>46107982
You can't tell me that Deathwing isn't about to cop a feel in that picture.
>>46108049
DW always came across the angry fag kind of person.
![1553323[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/yBc4NUY.jpg "1553323[1].jpg")
>>46108049
Real adventurers have felt up the Life-Binder.
so if men and dwarves and whatnot are titan creations. what about all the other races? where did the trolls come from? orks? space goats?
>>46108085
part of the reason Deathwing turned evil was because N'zoth promised him he could take Alexstarsza and Ysera as sex slaves
>>46108130
That makes him more of a faggot desu
>>46108130
Pretty shitty promise,
Ysera is always sleeping, so she won't notice.
Alex was already his sex slave before.
![latest[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/Ng3PCuD.png "latest[1].png")
>>46108121
Specifically speaking, the trolls are one of the first races to biologically appear on Azeroth. Their contact with the Moonwell created the night elves. Orcs are native to Draenor and naturally evolved. Draenei are native to Argus as Eredar, but their evolution is based on whether or not they have contact with the Naaru.
>>46108255
so are trolls the result of natural evolution too?
eredar existed before contacting either demons or naaru so they are naturally evolved too?
>>46108330
Yes and yes.
>>46108255
>>46108121
if men are already the master race imagine what would happen if they started drinking moonwell water
>>46106837
>Implying Illidan won't take over Dire Maul.
>>46108813
It'd be better than letting the Ogres have it and would make sense since that was also the place Warlocks went to get their epic mounts.
Back when "epic mount" actually meant something.
>>46104835
In Area 52, if I recall right. One quest has you help make rocket fuel.
>>46107895
>Crazy old man goes rogue and declares war on Dalaran.
You can't reason with crazy.
>Daughter is kidnapped and raped by said crazy old man.
Said daughter literally begs you to kill her once the mind control starts to crack.
>"I shall revive him as a flaming paraplegic"
I'm still not sure how that even worked, honestly.
>Lord of Undeath exposes himself during a crucial battle.
Lot of undead, only so much time. Also, y'know, have to make some allowances so the players can have a raid boss.
>Evil flaming brother destroys Azeroth
Works with the other dragon flights to come up with a plan to take Deathwing down for good. And actually tried to fight Deathwing first instead of just telling 10~25 guys to do it for her, so give her some credit there.
>>46109888
>>"I shall revive him as a flaming paraplegic"
>I'm still not sure how that even worked, honestly.
Actually, the LK raised him- he was dead as hell, but his body was purified by Alexstrasza's fire, which likely aided his will in resisting the Lich King's dominance/soul torture.
So is Bolvar rumored to make some reapperance or something? I've been seeing his name come up a lot in these threads. Also intrested in a certain majordomo
>>46109901
So the Lich King picked up Bolvar's smouldering corpse and raised him as a barely movable chunk of charcoal just to mock him? Arthas is an even bigger dick than I thought.
>>46109932
Yeah, Bolvar's made an alliance of sorts with the Knights of the Ebon Blade and will be a part of the Death Knight storyline in Legion.
>>46109932
I hope they do more with Kel'Thuzard. He's been criminally underused as an antagonist character
>>46109982
As much as I hated "There must always be a Lich King" I like that Bolvar and the DKs are getting involved.
>>46109982
Oo, exciting possibly. Why he didn't reach out during the cataclysm I'll never understand.
I'm more irritated Kel'Thuzad never did anything during Cata. I was always under the impression he like regained a measure of his will back when the forsaken split off, but choose to stick with the scourge. Hes the head of the cult of the damned, whoes territory definatly includes northrend. You think he'd take an intrest to the freaking dragon cult and dragon literally hanging out behind his giant flying fort. Don't even get me started on mists scholomance
>>46110053
>Why he didn't reach out during the cataclysm I'll never understand.
I'd chalk that up to Cata coming right after he assumed the role, and he needed some time to get a feel for it and ensure he has control.
Sending the Scourge out to fight Deathwing would be a great way to thin down the number of undead, but if he lost control of them and they went on a rampage while there was bigger shit going down? Would just make the situation even worse.
Total headcanon, of course, but I think it fits.
>>46110036
I just love his voice, so any excuse for them to make up for him to have diolouge is ok in my book. Hearthstone was like my christmas
>>46110053
>I was always under the impression he like regained a measure of his will back when the forsaken split off
definitely this. It always felt like he had free will, but retained a personal loyalty to the Lich King and Arthas
>tfw KT pulls a big damn hero moment driving off Sylvanas.
such a bro
>>46110113
He really is like, the best of bros.
Slightly related, who is he banging to make Lil'KTs? Deathwisper? That other lady lich? Both? Is he too busy having sex and playing hearthstone?
>>46102683
>Was Blizzard's biggest mistake making the orcs become unwitting slaves to the Burning Legion?
I think otherwise, because through Lord of the Clans up until WarCraft III ended and WoW began it was STILL very clear that everything the orcs did was 100% their own fault; they may have been misled about the side effects of drinking demons blood but nobody MADE them drink that shit and even when on the stuff you still had free will, like any drug addict does.
Thrall's original plan is basically "okay, so we've done too much awful shit as a species to ever really get along with the humans and they're not going to forgive us, let's go find somewhere ELSE to live", hence him Moses-ing the New Horde to Kalimdor, away from the humans and hopefully finding a place for themselves where they can make a life for this culture they were re-discovering after their effective racial recovery from drug addiction and withdrawal.
>>46103129
>You could technically say they were unwitting pawns because the Legion, of course, had very sinister ulterior motives, but about all decisions made from the orcs were based on very real and very relatable needs and circumstances.
Exactly.
It's not that the orcs were "DIDN DU NUFFIN" like some people suggest on here (though later on as the fluff got increasingly lax this became the case sometimes), but rather "man, we fucked up really bad, we have to just leave and start over somewhere else".
>>46110053
>I was always under the impression he like regained a measure of his will back when the forsaken split off, but choose to stick with the scourge.
According to his old backstory, when he was alive and still had free will he WILLINGLY joined up with the Scourge, so really him continuing to work for the Lich King and with Arthas is totally in character for him.
>>46110113
>but retained a personal loyalty to the Lich King and Arthas
Honestly kinda impressive that his loyalty was strong enough that a cold-hearted bastard like Arthas after his deathknight shit happened called him a friend and genuinely seemed to mean it.
Though Arthas seemed a bit surprised and kinda had to force himself to admit that Kel'Thuzad was genuinely his friend and not just his servile minion.
Hydraxian Water lords WHEN?!
Flamewaker npc faction when?!
>>46110278
Bro Kel is best Kel
>>46100698
>Warcraft
> lore
>>46110313
Why did Sylvanas decide to leave behind such a great relationship? She could've been joined Arthas, Kel'thuzad, and Anub'arak as BFFs.
>>46110374
She wants to be the Lich Queen.
>>46110374
Because she was painfully murdered and brought back as an undead abomination against her will after her entire unit she led had been killed and then her entire nation that she had fought so hard for and died for was completely destroyed and she forced to participate in it's destruction.
Arthas hated her fucking guts and wanted her to suffer after all the trouble she caused him.
Meanwhile Kel'thuzad had joined the Scourge out of his own free will as a mortal and knew AHEAD of time he was going to die and was already 100% okay with it and Anub'arak peacefully surrendered himself and his people.
The circumstantial differences between them are pretty different.
>>46110422
That was all just a hazing ritual.
She failed.
>>46110422
Arthas didn't abuse her enough.
>>46110441
"Hazing" presumes someone wants to join the group. She didn't.
>>46110449
He had shit to do.
Arthas was kinda on the clock during the Scourge campaign, running around prepping for the Burning Legion's arrival while at the same time setting shit up with Kel'Thuzad so the Lich King could screw the Legion and go independent.
>>46110483
>"Hazing" presumes someone wants to join the group. She didn't.
Oh, please, I'm sure she was just dying to join them.
>>46110483
So you're saying it's wrong if I "haze" a girl into the Mile High Club?
How long until we wrap up fucking Neptulon and Ozumat?
Still salty
>>46110205
No banging involved.Where do you think all the orphans go?
>>46110483
Ugh. That just reminded me of the retarded One Legion retcon where none of the demons ever actually died. It makes the entirety of Reign feel incredibly pointless.
>>46110621
Thrall should have given her the big green D when he had the chance.
Now she's riding magical aspect cock and plotting to kill all orcs.
>>46110088
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKOUFR2Tgpc
His snark is amazing.
>>46110760
Sounds like they got Micheal McConnohie back as Kel's HearthStone voice.
I like it.
>>46110738
That....yeah, that's kinda stupid.
If that was the case the Burning Legion would never really loose
>>46110760
A lot of the Scourge characters in WoWIII were pretty snarky.
Arthas in particular seemed to have developed something of a very dry and understated sense of humor after he died.
>Ulther Lightbringer: "Damn you Arthas! The kingdom it took your father decades to build you've ground to dust in a matter of DAYS!"
>Arthas, in a tired and bored-sounding voice: "Very....dramatic, Ulther, but spare me the cliches."
>>46110524
it got wraped off -screen.
Neptulon got Ozumat off his head and Ozumat is now his pet.
>>46110821
>>46110760
>Valeera Sanguinar
Kind of weird that she's basically elven jailbait and looks like she's 25 years old physically.
>>46110760
Jesus, he's got to be the best shit-talking undead guy ever.
>>46110760
Imagine Kel'Thuzad vs Ragnaros.
>>46110866
>You asked for it.
>I most certainly did NOT. You barged into MY floating necropolis!
>Watch your back.
>Ok. I. Will.
>Victory or death!
>Really? Death it is then.
>For Doomhammer!
>You're fighting for a hammer? Ok then.
>I must protect the wild.
>The wild? Then what are you doing in Naxxramus?
This is a dragon (both/other)
>>46110374
Anub'arak didn't actually like Arthas, the Lich King was just controlling him enough to force a cordial attitude out of him
>>46110866
Michael McConnohie is one of the best VA's in the business and I heavily appreciate Blizzard's obsession with him
>>46111882
nah, thats just a wotlk addition.
>>46108121
The trolls were made by life evolving around the Well of Eternity. Then they spread out, and once they returned, they turned night elf. So night elf are actually double Well creatures...
>tfw trolls devolve into elves
All i want from Legion is more troll lore but that probably won't happen
>>46111986
Did the NElves discovered that they were once Trolls?
If not, what would be their reaction and that of their allies?
>>46111905
He seemed like that in Frozen Throne as well. "Agreed implies I had a choise" and all that. Though he and the Nerubians seems to have come to terms with losing to the Scourge and becoming servans of the Lich King, unlike Sylvanas.
>>46112195
I honestly dont know. It just says so, very shortly in the Chronicle book that trolls evolved naturally from the lands around the Well. Nobody knows it, most likely.
>>46112267
I remember there being a book in booty bay, at least back in the vanilla-WotLK version of BB, that actually talked about the topic so even if there's no proof I think some people have hypothesized.
I seem to recall the general Night Elf opinion basically being "Ew, no." while the trolls, if they cared at all, thought the whole thing was kind of funny.
the Twilight's Hammer did literally nothing wrong
>>46112592
Twilight's Hammer is litterally the worse cult
>>46112678
more like the second best cult after the Cult of the Damned
>Trolls mutate into Night Elves
>Night Elves mutate into Manlet Elves, Goat Elves, Bird Elves, Crack Elves, Super Crack Elves, and ayy lmao Super Crack Elves
"Night Elves were a mistake."
--Elune
>>46112806
you forgot the snake elves
>>46112763
> tfw no dragon cult to worship dragon girls
![300px-Drakkisath_Monster_Guide[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/5AyANe7.jpg "300px-Drakkisath_Monster_Guide[1].jpg")
>>46112900
Wasn't that the explanation for all those dragonkin who aren't true dragons? You know, like general Drakkisath?
>>46112936
evolved from humans who dedicated their lives to servitude under the great dragons
![latest[2].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ScmRYQA.jpg "latest[2].jpg")
>>46113013
Sounds culty enough for me.
>>46112900
>tfw we'll never find out what was the deal with the Wyrmcult other than "they're mean to trees, go kill them kthxbai"
>the Blackrock Clan is named after an ore native to Draenor
>when they got to Azeroth they conveniently found a mountain made out of black rocks (not blackrock) to call home, and named it after themselves
fucking Blizzard
>>46113013
That is pretty sweet desu
>>46113204
It's honestly a pretty good reason for why they decided to make that their base in Azeroth
>>46113204
Post best dragon aspect!
>>46113204
Hey, if you're willing to live inside the magical disaster area that is the Burning Steppes, then you can call pretty much anything blackrock. Ragnaros fucked that place up something fierce ; I wouldn't be surprised if all the rock was blackened from it.
>>46113204
>The Blackrock clan harnessed fire elementals to smelt their ore.
>They move to a volcano where the Dark Irons harness fire elementals to smelt their ore.
Thoughts on Nobble87?
>>46113264
Not that far-fetched. Fire elementals probably infest most Warcraft volcanoes.
>>46110760
Most of these make him sound like a snotty nerd humor type. I have seen better sarcasm in my time.
>>46110226
>okay, so we've done too much awful shit as a species to ever really get along with the humans and they're not going to forgive us, let's go find somewhere ELSE to live", hence him Moses-ing the New Horde to Kalimdor
and then they slaughter a bunch of night elves, kill their nature god and cut down huge portions of their forest
god orcs are fucking garbage.
>>46113428
>and then they slaughter a bunch of night elves, kill their nature god and cut down huge portions of their forest
>tfw you realize that 90% of the conflict post-Horde exodus was caused by Thrall's creepy crush on Grom
>>46110738
Archimonde, etc all are still canon dead. They die if killed by significant forces, on the Twisting Nether or their homeworld apparently???
>>46113468
It's honestly an interesting character flaw of Thrall's.
The problem is that I'm not entirely sure that the writers realise it's an interesting character flaw of Thrall's, or if they even realise it's a flaw at all
>>46113285
2dutch4me
>>46112367
i saw on nostalrius the other day in AV, there's a quest to kill troll players on the alliance side. the quest text is basically "trolls think night elves evolved from them. how blasphemous, kill all trolls you see"
i don't know if that's original quest-text or not, but if it is, that was way back in vanilla also. i think it's always been a thing that's been implied since WoW started but not addressed except for tidbits by brann bronzebeard
>>46113468
>Thrall grows up as a slave
>Has only Aedelas Blackmoore are fatherfigure, who constantly abuses him and is a volatile drunkard
>Develops massive daddy issues both by being an orphan, unsure of his parents' history, and being in the custody of a person who ultimately resents him
>Escapes, joins up with Grom, who is basically the only remaining Orc who comes even close to matching the descriptions of the Second War
>Develops a father complex, because of which he always forgives Grom for shit that any other orc would've gotten brained
>Ends up with Grom conveniently dying himself out of the consequences and having to fix the unfixable mess Hellscream senior left behind
>>46113285
He's cool enough, I suppose, but his accent makes my toe-nails curl (and I actually love the Dutch language, mind you) and his narration style is cheesy, but not cheesy enough to be entertaining. It's highschool entry levels of cheese.
>>46113468
>thrall has a huge boner on the honor and rituals of TROOOO orcs and worships grom
>it turns out all that honor was instilled in him by the human sergeant training him and tabetha
>orcs were just vicious, warmongering assholes the whole time and the whole "peaceful, shamanistic" thing is a sham
>thrall is just a weird orc-human hybrid
the behavior of garrosh and all the dindus in WoD confirms this, they needed no demonic blood to chimp out and genocide
>>46113626
You are forgetting Eitrigg and Drek'Thar
Who >Wyrmrest AccordAnd do you play on Alliance?
>>46113664
Eitrigg had a human bff too.
>>46113665I used to. Debating whether or not to reactivate and buy Legion.
>>46113626
>>thrall has a huge boner on the honor and rituals of TROOOO orcs and worships grom
>the only honourable orcs were the Frostwolves and random singular Blackrocks that were friends with Frostwolves, like Orgrim
>glom onto Grom because he's the daddy he never had
>let the Warsongs do whatever they want because Grom fixed the mistake he made twice because he's a retarded dindu
>put Grom's son in charge of the Horde because muh honour
>he's an even bigger dindu
thanks a lot Green Moses
>>46113735I resubbed with a friend, our guild is dead, mostly looking for others to RP with while we do end game content we skipped out on until now. Still haven't seen High Maul..
>>46113741
I always got the feeling he had more of a mentor relationship with Doomhammer.
>>46113783
>HighmaulJust LFR it, yo. Unfortunately, both Highmaul and Hellfire are pretty underwhelming visually and mechanically. I found Naxxrammas to be way more fun. Most of the WoD endgame gear looks pretty lame, too.
>>46113825
>they retconned the ogres from tribal brutes into roman empire
Highmaul would have been okay as a fun side romp instead of turned into a semi-tier.
>>46110663
I prefer my version, but that is also amazing
>>46110866
>'Cha. I'm Kel'Tu-freaking-zad
It matches the level of maturity I always envisioned
>>46113665
My mains are on WRA. Both ally and horde. Haven't played in like a year though
>>46109975
Torture him into DKhood.
You revive (normally) fully able to move (bolvar is), dragonfire made him look burned and smoldering in general.
The reason bolvar doesn't move it's because it's one PALADIN trying to control the damned vs ner'zhul(shaman, necromancer)+arthas(paladin, death knight, fratricide)
>>46109982
Nigga.
He didn't "made an alliance of sorts" he just went "K guys you're scourge again, be my police"
>>46112199
Didn't they use to serve old gods?
I'd say scourge is nearly an improvement
>>46113968
Is arthas still in there? I mean it makes sense that Ner'zhul is because he's bound to the armor and didn't have a body to begin with; but I don't think there was anything to suggest that Arthas went through a similar process of binding his soul to the role.
>>46114044
Ner'zhul isn't in there anymore. His soul is killed by Arthas at the end of the book.
>>46114044
Nope, they're both gone. Some echos remain in the shards of frostmourne, but that's it.
>>46114061
>>46114069
Huh. Here I thought the major downside of the phenomenal necromantic power is that you had to share headspace with an angry old orc who wanted to take over your body.
If you actually just get control of the Scourge without having to fight the old LK over it, it kind of makes me wonder how it would go down if somebody else put the helm on instead.
What happened to Zul'Jin's severed hand?Can we re-build him? Do we have the technology?
>>46114115
He sliced it off to escape the elves but as he had pissed off the Loas, they stole his regeneration ability hence he couldn't simply regen it back again. The hand itself is probably rotten to hell
>>46110821
I think my favorite Arthas line us when someone says something like
>I hope there's a special place in hell for you after what you've done
And Arthas replies
>We may never know... I intend to live forever.
His VA was great, I love the palpable change between human Arthas and undead Arthas. A lot of the WC3 VAs were great, actually.
>>46114199
>The hand itself is probably rotten to hell
Or is it?Jokes on you, it'll be the end boss villain of the next obligatory troll raid.
>>46114249
No more troll raids after cucks cried about them in wotlk.
Reminder that's why we got toc instead of zul raid
>>46114295
>No more troll raids after cucks cried about them in wotlk.
Ahem.
>>46114322
We'll get a big patch with Zandalari (possibly a raid) and Vol'jin making a return, doing badass stuff and being back as a warchief.
>>46114322
>Shit-tier rehashes
THanks for the trigger famalad
All i can wish for is Vol'jin isn't actually dead and comes back with a bunch of friendsand troll the hell out of sylvanas because why not
>Disgusting Troll "warchief"
>Disgusting dead bitch elf "warchief"
Garrosh was right. Remove this filth from the Horde
>>46114452
I SPIT ON YA HO'DE
>>46114115
There are quests that suggest another tribe of Amani stole his hand back from the elves and ate it to gain his power over the loa and started to worship him as one with the loa.
If they wanted to they could use that to say he has taken on the mantle of loa himself and can return at any time.
>>46114545
What quest would that be? Legitametly curious now
>>46114497
WE AMANI WERE HERE BEFORE ANYONE
>>46114618
And then you got nuked back into the stone age.Except you never left the stone age, so there wasn't much of a change.
>>46114582
I think it was around zul aman in the ghost lands when you go through the belf starting zone.
>>46114646
I H8 YOU.
>>46110758
Kalec and platinum Jaina are shit
>>46114452
>Orc Warchief
>All is good
>Troll Warchief
>Trolls are still k-kinda savage, r-right?
>Bitch Warchief
>For the Horde ;_;
Tell me the slippery slope isn't real.
Gnome Warchief 2k17
>>46110312
Duke Hydraxis assists the shaman players in Legion on Neptulon's behalf.
>>46114933
The end of the world will be when aBlood Elf Warchiefappears.
Screencap this, for this will be the day when all suspension of disbelief will be thrown out of the window because that will be too much.
>>46114243
That's between him and Uther
Uther the Lightbringer: I dearly hope that there's a special place in hell waiting for you, Arthas.
Arthas: We may never know, Uther. I intend to live forever.
and good riddance.
>>46115019
Lor'themar was clearly the best choice for Warchief after SoO though.
>>46115019
>Themar becomes warchief
>"Yeah, we're evicting the undead to the scourge since they're good again and sylvanas is kinda of a bitch, then we're going with the alliance because honestly fighting has gotten not only stale but also retarded as fuck, legion someone? And deporting all orcs back to alternate draenor. No idea where to place the draenei."
>>46115060
>No idea where to place the draenei
The ovens.
>>46115052
>>46115060
Lor'themar doesn't like politics and stuff like that.
Him being in any place of authority (read: faction leader or someone that doesn't do too much fighting) would be a death sentence for him.
He loves fighting.
>>46115126
Those who desire power are those who should wield it least.
Lor'themar is the hero the Horde needs.
>>46115032
"traitor king!"
>who me?
>>46115060
>No idea where to place the draenei.
BUILD ROAD
>>46115165
so fucking smug
>>46115060
>No idea where to place the draenei.
Fix their space ship, send them away. Leave a few females for my personal harem. That's all I want.
I still think it would've been better if Thrall had made the tough choice and NOT put Garrosh in charge.
Let the civil war happen. We get a new villain group with the 'true' horde oldguard breaking away and holding Garrosh up as a figure head / meat head. And we still have the not fucking retarded Horde who would really rather not have the entire world hate them.
They could even still blow up Theramore if they wanted. Hell, have Garrosh's Horde TAKE OVER Theramore for a while and drive Jaina out. Really set it up as ambitious and too aggressive to ignore, but still have to postpone major military action against them because Deathwing's shit is literally world shattering.
Garrosh's Horde gets to dig in their heels and simmer for a while. Hell, maybe they invade Pandaria because they're desperate for more territory (and getting their murder fix), instead of "because it's there!" Works well if they're holed up in Theramore, because they wouldn't have the space or food supply for a sizable force.
>>46115192
Despite having no soul, what a guy.
>>46115253
he had the best soul of them all. A true hero
