Friend talking about Fate Stay bad guy Gilgamesh.
Says that his Character sheet lists him as Lawful Good.
"Cause he's the king, and He makes he Laws, and He's the one who says what's good and what isn't."
My first reaction: "BullSHIT!"
Second reaction: debate this and other screwy alignment twists, because I'm wondering if this actually could be a legit thing.Yes, I'm aware now that his character sheet alignment is CHAOTIC Good, but the point still stands! How the fuck does this guy count as GOOD?
>>46098624
He's an asshole, but from when and where he comes he is a great hero who fought against "evil" despite being a prick and doing some stupid shit.
You can thank Enkidu for him being "good".
Good and evil really is subjective, anyway.
>>46098624
He wants humanity to succeed. See CCC.
>>46098624
well, what evil things he did?
>>46098624
Depends on if you want to do dnd style gods make good/evil, or real morals make good/evil.
In the first instance, a dnd king can of course be evil normally, because such a thing as absolute good and evil exist. If he is say, the God of a custom setting with similar rules though, he could be the arbiter of what is good and what is evil, making himself the ideal of absolute good.
Under real ethics things get more flexible as you could base alignment of actions, intentions or results.
Additional food for thought, virtually anything can be justified based on the lawful neutral alignment if you're going by the definition on the carton as it were.
>>46098624
>Says that his Character sheet lists him as Lawful Good.
He's full of shit then.In the context of the setting, chaotic refers to disliking the world order, lawful refers to liking the world oder, good refers to acting productive, and evil refers to being destructive/disruptive.
So Sasaki Kojiro, who never did anything of value besides master swordfighting, and didn't kill many people either, is evil, because having fun with killing, or mastering a skill for the sake of itself, is fucked up from the perspective of the natural order.
Hassan-i-Sabbah is the same, except he uses the skill to remove threats to world order, hence he is lawful evil.
Jason is neutral good, because he accepts the world and tries to exploit it in order to build a kingdom. This is a good thing, even though he's a complete dick in the way he goes about it.
And Emiya, who is a hero by all rights, is neutral, because he works to protect the status quo and works to prevent conflict of any kind, because he dislikes it when people die.
>>46098624
Nasu has his own system really. That and in the past he really was pretty chaotic good in a bound to by his friends getting pissed if he didn't help way.
>>46099374
Okay. I need this for any other fate/bitching about Nasu threads
>>46098624
Alignment in the Nasuverse isn't based on actual morality, but how a person's actions and desires reflect upon the world's state. Gilgamesh desires genocide, but the point of it is to return humanity to its powerful and pure state, which is good from the world's point of view because it both elevates humanity back to its former greatness and reduces the chances of humans destroying themselves or Gaia because of their stupid shit.
>>46099374
This. tl:dr Nasu is an asshole and made up his own alignment system
>>46098883
That whole heart surgeon bit was pretty evil.
>>46098624
Imagine weeding, you're killing things to better others. To him humanity is diseased and needs some pruning. Good intention, atrocious methods. Of course intentions aren't everything
Does anyone besides me find themselves agreeing with Gilgamesh more than Shirou? I mean, Shirou wants a world with no pain. That is essentially a world without disagreements, a world without struggle [and thus, strength], a world where everyone just, sits around, forever, slowly dying.
Meanwhile Gilgamesh is basically the OG ubermensch affirming LIFE, even the necessary shitty parts, because he's that strong of a personality.
Shirou's ideal world is the modern world, on steroids. A world of NEETs who engage in petty hobbies, forever, in meaningless lives doing meaningless things.
Gilgamesh would create a world where individuals could create their own values, their own dreams, could actually LIVE and accomplish something meaningful.
>>46102305
Oh I completely agree. Gil, may be sort of a dick, bit I was behind him the entire time. Any find that Nasu, kinda contradicts his works a lot?
>>46104633
He can generally explain almost everything away but it's been getting a little silly as of late.
>>46098624
he's the first king to ever exist
therefore he view the entire world as his property and wants to protect it because he doesn't like his possessions getting damaged, and he will do anything to get whats properly his back
>>46104762
One of the things I recall seeing, though I do seem to have a problem finding it is how Gilgamesh, can pretty much accurately judge his opponents strength so he can fight appropriately. Nasu, even stats that Gil, would knwo better than to ever fight Fake Assassin, in a clash of swords. So...how can he lose to Shirou?Or anyone for that matter?
>>46104900
Hubris. He's that arrogant.
>>46104900
Basically Gil is a Gary Stu. His ONLY flaw is arrogance. If he loses, it was because he's just so good he didn't deign to seriously fight against a mongrel like you, if he actually tried, why he'd blow you the fuck out in an instant. Only pretending to be retarded. etc.
>>46102305
>>46104633
The problem anon, is your fat ass wouldn't exist in that world. It would be a hellscape of the strong ruling the weak. People would be slaves, and simply accept their lot in life as being ruled by the weak. Freedom, with all of it's flaws, leave room for aspiration. And the internet and waifu's.
>>46104900
Shirou really pulled out some bullshit. Like he knew Emiya would have been able to fuck him up which is why he took him out of the game, but to think that some brat master who was getting wrecked earlier can pull out his weakness is a bit asinine to assume, especially when you add in Gil's arrogance.
>>46105429
>implying Gil isn't supporting true freedom.
>>46105452
Nasu, has gone on record that Gil, is the strongest servant, and so long as he fought serious, no on stands a chance. It's just feels like Gil, lost not just do to his arrogance, but also because of the old "he has to lose."
>>46102305
Nasu declares either as viable paths for mankind's future.
Everyone is equal, everyone is content, and the world grinds to a quiet conclusion = Tsuki no Sango
Might must make right, a world of brutality and superiority, transcend and move beyond or die and fall behind = Angel Notes
