Is there any reason to actually buy models and start playing WH40k in its current state ?
Is there any reason to actually post on 4chan in its current state?
>>46072266
I wouldn't buy into the current edition.
Buy minis and play something like Mordheim or Necromunda. There's rules for both online. Frostgrave or Gorkamorka work too.
>>46072266
Some models are a joy to convert, paint and play in a scenario with friends and the fluff, despite slowly falling apart, still holds the basic principles that made it great and offer an entertaining setting to use.
It's like walking on a minefield with the risks, but the other end is still the same sweet nectar it was years ago.
>>46072266
If there is a local community of fun players you would like to interact with, then I'd say its worth the investment, even if you think the rules are terrible and the models are overpriced.
>>46072266
Play Horus Heresy!
Or Epic.
>>46072266
yes, assuming you like the setting and aesthetics of the minis.
They are high quality at an alright price.
The games probably at its best point yet, the current batch of standard scenarios and rules focus more of manoeuvring and tactical play instead of just lining up and killing each other. Plus there's huge variety and options for how to build your army and its basically the only 28mm scifi mass army game on the market.
The imbalance means its not going be a super optimised competition focused game, but thats only a problem if you're trying to make it that. Its balanced enough for casual play.
this is relevant to me
I REALLY want to play 40k but everyone keeps saying its going to shit and its too late for it
and Australians get absolutely fucked on prices, would definitely stick to ebay purchases
>http://www.kotaku.com.au/2013/04/the-iron-fist-how-games-workshop-intends-to-monopolise-the-online-sale-of-products/
>>46072266
If you know enough to ask this question, you know the answer to it as well.
>>46072266
Probably not, so proxy with Lego and also BRIKWARS!
>>46072266
>buy models
yes
>start playing WH40k
no
>build and paint
This will always be a joy and the majority of your hobby time. If you are interested, try it and see how you like it. You can always enjoy this part of the hobby regardless if you play or not. I haven't played since 2012 (too busy, moved to middle of nowhere) but I will collect and paint daily.
>playing
Try it out. You can always stop playing if it isn't fun. You can always switch to a different game. Just collect and paint as you see fit. Don't fall into gamblers fallacies like the rest of the Internet.
>It's current state
You have answered your own question OP
Any of 40K's many competitors will do a better job providing good game play and at a fraction of the price
>>46072895
That's awesome
>>46072781
Warhammer 40k was only a "good" game in 1e. And that is supposed to be played in a scenario format with an umpire/DM. So its supposed to be played a roleplaying/strategy hybrid.
I played in 3e mostly, and it was an awful game. It consisted of moving dozens of orks and rolling handfuls and handfuls and handfuls of dice. I did usually win though. Can't argue with hundreds of attacks every turn.
The appeal is the setting/models.
>>46072266
>>46072781
If you want to do it, do it, OP. There's never going to be a "good," or "bad," time to get into something - you won't know whether it was good or bad until it's already past you by,
Don't listen to doomsayers and neckbeards on the internet. Go to your local store - if you like what you see, get a Starter box of your army and go from there. Everybody on /tg/ is going to tell you it sucks, especially people who hate 40K and do everything they can to tell people how terrible it is.
If you think you'll like it, try it. That is the only possible way you'll know.
>>46072266
If you plan on playing casually, absolutely.
I play in a casual group and 40k is tons of fun. I love the moments the game makes when a single model turns into a bad ass unexpectedly. The entire thing is very dramatic and fun to play out in your head.
If you're playing competitively... eh not really.
>>46072895
>lego
>not as expensive as GW
have you seen this shit in stores lately? fucking $100 kits on the shelves at walmart
>>46072285
Very good response, relevant to the current discussion.
>>46073591
This.
>>46074034
And this.
You need to find out for yourself and the only way is probably to find some friends or get to a local GW store for a game; here in the UK they're great for that.
Otherwise everyone has their own view, their own version of what's good, what's not and which was version was the best and to be honest, none of that really helps you much.
http://endlessswarms.blogspot.com/
^coop 40k. Its basically Last Stand - Tabletop Edition. My friends and I have tweaked the rules to make it a little harder (min two new units come on the board after ever player turn and there are like two threat increasing cards for every non-threat increasing card), but its a blast. I just got a ton of orks off ebay and we are going to adapt it to cover a WAAAAGH!!! next. It's a good break from killing each other.
>>46072266
If it's what you want to do, go for it. But I don't think it's a good game and I hope never to touch another GW mini again.
Look into skirmish wargames. They're much cheaper (Infinity armies are almost exclusively $100-$200 new) and because they're skirmish, you can get started faster.
>>46072266
Are you a collector that specifically wants to collect WH40k miniatures and only one-offs, not complete companies or anything?
If so, you are in luck. Prices aren't too bad for that sort of thing.
If the answer is anything else then yes to the above question, FUCK NO GET THE FUCK AWAY WHILE YOU STILL CAN
>>46074074
>have you seen this shit in stores lately? fucking $100 kits on the shelves at walmart
Oh no, I'm never going to claim it's any cheaper, it's just WAY more adaptable.
>>46072266
There is very little reason to get into currently supported GW games if you're mainly approaching them from the gameplay angle.
Warhammer 40 000 is incredibly shallow rules-wise and runs on special rules to pad out the limited choices and has constant balance issues because of the retarded model where they do one codex at a time and always fuck over at least a few factions to motivate players to invest in the current top dog.
Like warhammer fantasy before it got scrapped, is starting to overreach when it comes to the scope of games played. Knights, superheavies and 100+ miniatures are insanity in 28 mm scale.
If you want to just build cool miniatures and whatever, go nuts, GW's stuff looks good, but the games are really shit.
The only GW wargame with any kind of following that's any good is Epic, which has been unsupported for years and is a better game for it. The fan base and online community is amazing.
>>46074074
The boxed sets are insanely expensive, but the secondary pieces market is amazing.
>>46077888
Seconding this
It's ironic as I am GW's target audience as I buy and paint models because they look cool, not to play the games they are part of(I would if the rules weren't dogshit however). Other companies don't produce kits as large and crazy as GW, which is what makes them stand out compared to most other miniature companies.
>>46078352
I got to experience warhammers journey from herohammer with 10 man regiments and insane monsters and magic to blockhammer with 3 boxes to build one unit of spearmen, and started playing 40k before 3rd edition, have a massive hardon for space marines, the imperium, cheesy fantasy chaos and paint miniatures every week...
And I don't recommend anyone to get into 40k/Aos. The games are shit. The prices are shit, the miniatures are pretty.
If you want to get into wargames for the gameplay, just get Battlelore (2nd). 80 burgerdollars for a box with a hexboard, better rules than most stuff GW has come up with, and 90+ minis (2 armies) in the box. Boom, get playing instantly, don't get robbed.
OR, start an epic 40k thread and wait for resinbro or one of the other recasters to get summoned and buy an entire company of 6mm custom space marines or something. It's a genuinely good game and you can fight battles with dozens of tanks or knights on the field while still having room to maneuver and play with tactics, not just move forward and hope you roll high.
But don't get into warhammer 40k as a game. GW is basically the Apple of wargaming. Their products look the best so they overcharge something crazy, focus on constant new releases and a fan base that doesn't really know about better alternatives or are more concerned with having what everyone else has than to have something good.
>>46077955
>The boxed sets are insanely expensive, but the secondary pieces market is amazing.
Well that really depends on the set, Lego is getting back to the awesomeness that is the ten USD starter box.
>>46072519
Does anyone play Horus-Heresy Epic?
I'd love to play the HH in absolutely massive scales to fight out some of the most intricate, amazing battles the series has sene.
Does anyone make new 6mm Epic minis? I'd even be willing to pay shapeways prices for it (although I'd prefer not paying shapeways for clearly Not!Imperial forces).
>>46072641
Where do you find anyone willing to play "casual play"? Everywhere I've tried to play the game winds up being WAAC-shitheads.
>>46073026
God I fucking HATED orks in 3e, and the "experimental assault rules" where you could, move,disembark, and assault in the same turn meant that there was 0 balance.
>>46078576
So, is battlelore explicitly a board-game, or are there aspects where you can add expansions to it.
>>46079595
>Does anyone play Horus-Heresy Epic?
>I'd love to play the HH in absolutely massive scales to fight out some of the most intricate, amazing battles the series has sene.
>Does anyone make new 6mm Epic minis?
The recasters and 3d model guys in the community make pretty much all the forgeworld releases for space marines at least in 6mm there are tons of horus heresy era miniatures for it. The miniatures in the picture would cost you something like 15 burgerdollars total if you get hold of resinbro, more if you want metal.
>So, is battlelore explicitly a board-game, or are there aspects where you can add expansions to it?
It's a board game but it has army building and expansions. There are only 3 factions to it though and the minis are not great compared to a real miniatures game, but it's sooo fun to play and so much value for your money. It's an 8+ on boargamegeek.com if you care about that stuff.
>>46072266
It's always a good time to buy models.
Just not GW ones.
Ideally you want models that you can use for multiple games.
>>46072641
pleb
>>46079768
thanks for the tip anon - that shit looks HYPER baller. Do you know how I'd contact Resin bro for these most amazing of minis?
Additionally, what are the factions of battle lore: I assume some kind of Euro-knights as the 'good' faction.
>>46079944
Protip: you don't need to use the "noko" code to stay in a thread you post in any more. Shit be new and improved defaults now.
>>46077888
Basically this, there is a reason I play homebrew shit with my friends.
>>46079944
Another anon, but as I understand it, you need to get in deep with the community before you can earn their trust and get their contact to order 6mm forms of these minis. The only reason they're in business is because they keep a low profile to vet people and duck C&Ds.
>>46080383
Well, is there a place within the community where I could go/hang out/ and then order some of these?
>>46079944
>Do you know how I'd contact Resin bro
There are 2 or 3 different guys who sell forumware casts who hang out on /tg/, if you start an epic thread or ask around in one they'll usually find you and ask you to leave your email address, then they get in contact with you and send you a list of what they have molds for.
That's how it happened for me. So far I have bought warhound and reaver titans, a thunderhawk and tons of space marine infantry. I am building tiny, tiny contemptor dreadnoughts and terminators at the moment (omg 2 part minis that are 8 mm tall, arrgh)
>Additionally, what are the factions of battle lore: I assume some kind of Euro-knights as the 'good' faction.
The good faction are knights, they feel kind of like warcraft 2 humans looks wise. The evil faction is notChaos cultists with monsters and poison weapons. The third faction are undead. There are also neutral upgrade units like a dragon and some giant or something. All 3 armies have an expansion set with new units.
>>46080383
>>46080419
Not really true, there are people who sell recasts through /tg/ since it's pretty anonymous here. On the tactcom forums (THE hangout spot for epic, where the people who playest and make the current rules are) people are way more hush-hush since you're communicating with forum profiles and stuff. A lot of people sell stuff from their collections there though, forumware pops up pretty frequently.
I got all my stuff from 2 guys I found in a /tg/ thread.
>>46072895
This is now a Brikwars thread
Absolutely terrible game.
Codices are all over the shop so nothing even resembles balance.
The game's utterly confused about what scale it wants to be played at, so ends up with stupid shit like Knights taking up half a table edge.
More a personal issue as well, but it has a silly amount of dice rolling required for a single attack. To hit, to wound, armour save, feel no pain, for one single attack.
The troop minis are actually pretty reasonable in terms of price, and good quality. HQ and vehicle though, utterly ridiculous pricing.
>>46072641
>the current batch of standard scenarios and rules focus more of manoeuvring and tactical play instead of just lining up and killing each other.
This is the single best thing going for 40k right now. If they could clean up the combat system and balance factional firepower, I feel the current scenarios and objective deck would make for bretty gud beer & pretzels play. As-is, you either have take-the-piss games with friends or WAACfaggotry.
>>46072504
> if you think
it's not even an opinion, anon, it's a fucking fact.
>>46080785
GW was heading in that direction by removing all codex-unique rules and focusing only on the already bloated set of basic core rulebook USRs, but then they changed their mind and started shitting out tons of formations and one-time-occurrence and duplicates-of-already-existing-USRs unique rules.
>>46072504
>Buying into 40k is the hazing ritual of the local neckbeard frat.
>>46080888
I guess all the third party companies with miniatures even more expensive than GW stuff are just criminally overpriced then.It's worth it though because their rules are so much less shit
>>46074111
Ask a stupid question
Formations ruined 40k
>>46081020
To their credit, GW did not outsource their production lines, which would make them cheaper both in price and quality, so a bunch of britbongs get well paid specialized jobs.
>>46080592
No one wants to play with legos. I will stick to high detail scale figures.
>>46081103
6E ruined it. Formations are just the natural evolution of the retarded changes 6E brought like allies, flyers, detachments, double force org, hull points, deciding to nerf CSM and DA but then power creep Tau and Eldar, etc.
>>46080998
>>46080785
>>46072641
40k has an incredibly weak "game engine" so to speak, the stats that interact with each other and how movement and the game turn sequence functions means there isn't a lot of ways to add depth to the game. This is why there's so much focus on army-specific special rules, formations etc, the core rules are too clumsy to really do much with.
It's a shame that they care more about being able to continue the endless procession of codex releases and the super-slow edition updates instead of just wiping the slate clean and trying to make an amazing rules set. In many ways it's the same game as when I started playing like 17 years ago, and the more giant monsters and vehicles they add the more apparent it becomes.
>>46080592
>This is now a Brikwars thread
YES!!!
>>46081161
>I will stick to high detail scale figures.
Then perhaps Mega Bloks are more your style?
>>46081350
Fuck off NiceDaemonette
>>46081266
For some reason people love d6 and refuse to use d10 or a reasonable sided dice for 40k's math engine. Do you think 2d6 rather than 1d6 would help? I think the older editions had 2d6 and it was a lot better for things like terminator armor. Certain things like morale checks are still in 2d6 as well.
>>46072266
Yes because if you don't buy the models, you aren't supporting the hobby which would make you cancer in the community
>>46081440
Epic uses D6 and has way more depth than 40k, even with shorter rules.
40K is really hamstrung by stuff like taking turns using the whole army, having caps on stats, universal movement stats, morale rules that are mostly run away or keep fighting 100% and so on.
In epic you have stuff like command rules, turn initiative, better movement and less rolls.
40k doesn't need to be more granular, it needs to get rid of some of the arbitrary restrictions, break up the turn sequence, make leadership and orders relevant and have a better "standard" mission.
The scale also hampers it a bit since the table becomes so crowded which limits what type of units the game focuses on.
40k just doesn't have much in the way of maneuvering or tactics, it's more or less just "try to kill the stuff that can kill my stuff the best before it kills my stuff", even more so with superheavies being a regular thing.
>>46081610
>40k just doesn't have much in the way of maneuvering or tactics, it's more or less just "try to kill the stuff that can kill my stuff the best before it kills my stuff", even more so with superheavies being a regular thing.
You should try some the scenarios in the rulebook, objectives and even scoring points during the game means trying to just kill your opponent is only a viable strategy if thats what they're doing too.
>>46081925
In the context of gameplay depth 40k's scenario rules are like a bandaid on a severed limb.
Some of them would have been decent if it wasn't for the fact that the turn sequence lets you use your entire army without any activation rolls or anything of the sort.
>mfw friend buys 1.5 grand rig to 60fps game
>mfw he always complains about how he is bored and doesnt know what to play
>mfw I still have hundreds of hours of painting in front of me
Its not a bad purchase OP, a 40k army is comparable in price to a console and one game
>>46081610
>40k just doesn't have much in the way of maneuvering or tactics, it's more or less just "try to kill the stuff that can kill my stuff the best before it kills my stuff", even more so with superheavies being a regular thing.
Guess how I can tell you're bad at 40k.
- Using FF in 6E to bypass high armor save bodyguards
- Using LoS to negate overwatch on your entire squad except for one model
- Using terrain or transports to snipe specific models without using the Sniper or Character singling out rule
- Using squad coherency to allow a slow character to become locked in combat with an enemy 24" or further away
These are all things I know you don't know how to do and weren't aware of, because you dismissed 40k as a simple and easy game just because of how shitty it is, when in reality, it's so shitty and convoluted, that you can draw extremely advanced and abusive maneuvers out of its rules interactions.
>>46082052
Using tank shock to bisect squads and instantly kill 50% of their models.
Using tank shock to one hit kill gargantuan creatures and MCs.
>>46082083
>Using tank shock to one hit kill gargantuan creatures
can't be done.
>>46082118
>>46082208
Charging someone with a tank is attacking. Its an attack. No crushing GC's, its pretty clear RAW and RAI.
>>46082052
Although this gif is amazingly informative,
Fuck that noise. Seriously, the amount of shenanigans that this gif represents is just awful.
Blegh.
>>46082052
I'm saying it's shitty because it's simple, you're saying it's so shitty that it's actually complicated.
The important part is that it's still shitty but only one of us is dumb enough to still play it.
>>46082260
>Charging someone with a tank is attacking.
you aren't charging anyone, it's quite explicitly movement
>>46072266
Well, collecting and painting is worth it. But the game cant be taken even remotely seriously. It's extremely unbalanced to the point where it's a problem. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either lying, retarded, or plays Tau/Eldar/Necrons (and is still retarded, or lying).
It will likely never improve, because the imbalance and power creep are central to GW's sales strategy. Releasing a balanced 40k would require GW completely changing their philosophy - thats not going to happen unless/until they start to panic.
If you're into power armor, Mechanicum, or really expensive Imperial Guard - The Horus Heresy game is fantastic. Not perfectly balanced, but as good as you can expect from a game using 40k's ruleset.
>>46082298
>I'm saying it's shitty because it's simple
And you're wrong, because it's been quite clearly shown to not be simple. You simply weren't aware of its hidden complexity.
Since when have you heard people complain about 40k rules being "too simple"? Every complaint is "too convoluted" "too bloated" "needlessly complex".
>>46082260
You're not worth the effort of editing that passage and replacing ATTACK? with CHARGE?
You clearly haven't even read the rules.
>>46082260
>Charging someone with a tank is attacking
You can't charge in the movement phase which is when you tank shock. This is why you never anchor your Stormsurges, so they can get out of the way of crunches.
>>46072266
I play it for fun, but if you have money to spend, HH is probably better than regular 40k, and BaC means you can do your thing easily
So if I just leave an email address and say that me and my buddy want to blow our wads on epic40k stuff some guy will send me a catologue?
Worth a bash I guess.[email protected]
>>46082483
Only problem with HH is it's not as widely played, but it's growing pretty fast and the models are mostly compatible with 40k anyway, either as a 30k vs 40k custom game or simply being used as a 40k marine army.
>>46082545
I can second that: [email protected]
>>46082374
The core rules are very simple, the "complexity" is mainly figuring out how certain parts of the whole mess fits together.
You say depth, I say competing in who knows the most loopholes and bugs.
>>46072285
It's free.
>>46082769
Manouver and positioning being critical too winning isn't a loophole or bug.
>>46082769
Finding loopholes shows knowledge and depth of the subject. It's why not just anyone can be a lawyer.
The law is simple isn't it? Don't kill people. Don't steal. Pay your taxes.
>>46082284
>the amount of shenanigans that this gif represents is just awful.
Seconded at full force in every hole.
>>46072266
no there isn't. w8 out til GW dies and someone competent gets the IP
>>46072266
Depends.
For competive games? No. Rules aren't balanced enough, and the system isn't designed for it.
For fun and narative campaigns and the like? Hell yes. It's what the game is made for, "tested" for, and with a good organizer, a good group of friends and a good imagination, as well as some house rules to fix balanace issues and the game is quite fun.
Where were you when you first realized that you could've been building your BFG/Firestorm Armada/Dropfleet Commander ships out legos?
>>46084937
Where were you when you realized that you could cast literally everything in the GW library (past and future) for a fraction of the cost of fucking with bespoke legos?
>>46072266
No...Seriously no.
As a fan that has owned DEldar, Tau, Marines, IG, and SoB, this is the dark times of cluster fuckery.
>>46072266
Well if you enjoy it
Still worth it if played on kill team level tought.
>>46084937
I'd rather have models that don't look awful.
>>46072266
Oh looks it's another "GW is shit, it's about to crash any day now" thread
>>46082284
I see this image as a reason why they shouldn't have taken out focus fire.
>>46072266
40k... not so much. 30k hell yea. I came back to 40k roughly 7 Month ago with a few friends. Just 1k point armies for fun and the sake of money, but then I discovered 30k and went balls deep. It's far better balanced than 40k, for 125$ (depends where you buy) you get a solid base for your army (Calth box is the best deal since years) and you frequently get new units/updates from FW.
That said, if you find a good 40k community it's still kinda worth it, since it's still fun, but WAAC players fuck the game up a lot.
I wish I had a choice, but 40k is the only wargame that's regularly played around here so if I want wargames that's my only option.
>>46072266
Just play Age of Sigmar. Cheaper to get into and hell of a lot more balanced.
>>46090448
>more balanced
AHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>46090595
>Eldar and Tau are overpowered as fuck
>Orks and Chaos are underpowered as fuck
>Age of Sigmar has no over/underpowered armies
>>46090653
If you burn the scales, nothing and everything is balanced. It's a moot comparison, because every army essentially boils down to how many matchboxes marked "steam tank" you bring.
>>46072266
If you want to.
Same as always.
>>46090595
god people fall for trolls so easily if they mention AoS
>>46090696
No one would actually do that in real life though. My Chaos vs Skaven games where we just put down what we had were way more balanced than the poor Space Marine Guy getting absolutely destroyed by Eldar on the other table.
>>46090976
nice anecdotal evidence m8
>>46082861
>Finding loopholes shows knowledge and depth of the subject.
Because that is how you win real wars, not by being tactically the best, but by being an asshole who bends the rules and breaks sportsmanship by nitpicking the "rule" book
Just because it's a game that has abilities to be abused doesn't mean you should, and if you do, you instantly lose everyones respect.
If you can only win by using bullshit like 'this twig covers one guy so the whole unit is in cover", you will soon enough find no one to play with
>>46072266
Buying the models? Maybe I'd you're a collector, sure. Then go for it.
Playing the game? No, though there are a bunch of homebrew games floating around and maybe some other games you could use the minis for of you want to.
>>46082208
Keep up with the FaQ, this has been rules by GW to only make a d3 wounds and move the fucking rhino out of the way.
![article-1038611-004EE3B500000258-567_233x423[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/oBqIaLV.jpg "article-1038611-004EE3B500000258-567_233x423[1].jpg")
having too much money
>>46072895
The ONLY way to make your 40k army more expensive than buying from GW direct, no discounts.
>>46081227
are you me?
>>46091925
This, fuck everyone... if your going to try to be a smart alec rules lawyer at least know the fucking rules.
>>46094230
What happens if you tank shock a gargantuan creature with a super heavy tank?
Genuinely curious.
>>46072301
Second
>>46080592
No. No it fucking isnt.
>>46072266
I like it, I like the fact where GW is going with allies and formations, I like the setting and I like the models.
Having said that, I was one of those guys who have been playing this as a beer and pretzel game for like 10+ years now, and only as of late has begun digging my claws in to the more competitive scene. After watching some serious tourney play on YouTube, I can absolutely tell you that there was more to this game than just laughter and a good time. This game, if you play it by the RAW rules and most of all know all the rules, is a hell of a lot more tactical than I had ever imagine.
Things I used in my latest game for instance;
>Friend disengage his attached character from his unit, moving him 6" straight forward to my commander, an attempt to charge will come.
>Tries to follow up with the unit he left the character with, to take some snap shots at a unit behind my lord.
>The distance is tight, and he tries his best to get as many shots of as he can, until I refresh his memory that he cannot be within 2" of his lord unless he is part of that unit now.
>Forced to move back several models due to his lord´s big ass base, unable to reach with a majority of the 24" guns by now.
I know this is probably basic shit, but this never occurred to me before, and had I not tried to play a bit more RAW than before, I would have never even considered his move illegal. But thanks to this, he couldn't annihilate my unit, and I kept objective.
>>46096074
ITT: Anon boasts about abusing gamey bull shiite in a game with his 'Friend'.
>>46082298
That's the thing though, 40K absolutely is not a simple game. It's actually hideously, horrifyingly over convoluted compared to other wargames. It's just ludicrously over complex, every other wargame I've ever learned is far simpler and more intuitive than 40K in its current incarnation.
It USED to be a simple game, it's not any more by any estimation.
>>46096470
>abusing rules
>literally using the rules as they are written
Your not very smart are you?
>Boasting about
Yea, I actually said that this probably was pure basic, but for me, an old timer of the beer and pretzel gameplay, it was something new to use. So Id hardly call that boasting, but then again, see the point I made about you, not being the smartest guy out there... yea you'll get it, eventually.
>>46072266
Absolutely not, unless you play with actual friends willing to build fun lists around each other.
Formations have ruined the game.
>>46096606
You sound like a horrendous fat ass truth be told.
>>46096657
>buh muh butthurt
And you my friend sound like a faggot that just got told "you're wrong, and you know it". Nice try though, bonus for a good effort, kek.
>>46096074
>>is a hell of a lot more tactical
Yeah, remember when Saladin lost Jaffa because he detached from his unit and they couldn't get in range to shoot Richard the Lionheart?
>>46096757
Its a game, how else would you interpret it? If you want to see a movie, go do it, but a game needs rules. And these rules makes the basics for what we as players, can use as tactical options.
A player who knows his rule book and players by RAW shouldn't be accused for finding "loopholes" as many of you gents say it. They know the rules, and they know their army, and use this to their advantage.
In games like Warmahordes, you get banned for not playing by the rules, and only by the rules, why is this so hard in 40k?
>>46096606
Oh, I know all about the unintended consequences of odd rules interactions and the bizarre crap that arises from it.
You'll have a tough time convincing me that Jervis and Andy intended at one time to allow you to pick specific models out of units by occluding the line of fire from your tactical squad's lascanon with a couple of closely parked rhinos. It was an artifact of a rule intended to help the defender by preventing laser blasts from refracting around terrain to hit dudesmen who couldn't possibly have been the target.
WAACy crap is whacky and would eventually get you slapped in any environment you'll want to play in in the long haul.
>>46096710
Butthurt-anon (>>46096657) is not me.
>>46096878
to be honest I agree with this, Warmahordes has a pretty damn tight ruleset, it shouldn't be beyond the wit of 40K developers to develop a simple ruleset for a fucking shovey model soldier game.
>>46081610
I've been reading through the epic rules and normal 40k would be way better if it was just one action phase with all units on all sides doing whatever they wanted. It's so boring just sitting there waiting to make a ton of saves. It's why everyone hates fighting Tau--you just have to sit there while every damn unit of fire warriors or broadsides or riptides pokes away at you. It's also unrealistic: no one is just going to sit there and get shot at.
>>46079595
>God I fucking HATED orks in 3e, and the "experimental assault rules" where you could, move,disembark, and assault in the same turn meant that there was 0 balance.
You're mixing up your assault rules. The experimental assault rules were much closer to the 4th edition rules and went a long way to reign in the original 3rd edition rules. That said assault was still king in those editions.
Also, not being able to charge after you disembark from a stationary transport is one of the problems with 7th and needs to get taken back out for 8th.
>>46077888
>the retarded model where they do one codex at a tim
i haven't played the game since i was in middleschool but yeah
why the fuck don't they just make all the codexs at once? fuck.
>>46094013
>The ONLY way to make your 40k army more expensive than buying from GW direct, no discounts.
Yeah, but you can tear that Predator apart and rebuild it into a Land Raider or a Rhino!
>>46099098
>why the fuck don't they just make all the codexs at once?
So that they can have a constant stream of releases. It's even more important now because they lost a court case and can't claim copyright on anything they didn't have a model of when the rules were released.
That means you'd be looking at 5 year stretches with almost no releases, or a constant stream of campaign books adding new units and forcing you to cart around a dozen books to play your army.
And yes, this could be entirely averted with steadily updated online codices, but that's not how GW does things.
I would never play 40k in its current stage.
>>46072266
Vanilla 40k? No
The model quality has degraded gradually, if its not for AM ranges i already abandoned it altogether.
But if you still feel want to play 40k without much of its bullshit, try play netEpic or Kill Team (especially HoR one), they're both are good and mostly balanced games without cost you a lot of dosh, and the later let you use regular 40k model with much fun and customisation.
>>46091925
>>46094230
No it hasn't.
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/Warhammer_40000/Warhammer_40000_Rules_EN.pdf
>>46091863
>Just because it's a game that has abilities to be abused doesn't mean you should, and if you do, you instantly lose everyones respect.
No, just the mongoloid scrub retards like you. Most people who actually attempt to better themselves at playing skillfully will appreciate the tactic.
And you can't use this copout fucking response in a debate over "40k is simple and braindead tactically". You're one of the faggots who just goes "oh well I just play for fun/you're just a WAACfag" when proven wrong after starting an argument you know nothing about.
>>46072266
If you like miniatures more than miniature war games, sure. If you prefer miniature war games to miniatures, no.
