Link to the Trove:
>https://mega.nz/#F!3FcAQaTZ!BkCA0bzsQGmA2GNRUZlxzg!vJsyAa5T
Relevant Items and Miscellany:
>http://pastebin.com/FQJx2wsC
Last thread: >>46011609
What is everyone playing right now? What are you wanting to play?
Does anyone have any useful tips for an Improvised Weapons Fighter in AD&D?
I am by no means an "optimal build" kind of guy, but I want to at least make sure I don't drag the party down if all I'm using is improvised or stolen weapons
>>46068094
It's been a while since ive even taken a look at AD&D. What are the regular improvised weapons rules for that edition?
>>46068083
Made a setting for Labyrinth Lord that'll probably not get any use. I wanted to use it as a way to get into DMing, but my friends don't seem to be all that interested.
>>46068113
Maybe consider running a Roll20 game? Always seems to be someone in these threads looking for one to join.
>>46068108
I couldn't find anything in a quick crtl +F, and I can't seem to remember reading anything since it's never really been relevant to me.
It seems really likely there's something in a splatbook but I would have no idea which one to look in first
>>46068119
Maybe, but I'm a bit bashful with things like Roll20 and calls and what not. It'd take me a moment to adjust, but I guess I can try it out.
>>46068134
I dont think there's really all that much you can do in terms of "building" a character in AD&D. The best I can think of would be to ask your DM if you could use "improvised weapons" as a fighter weapon specialization, and then homebrew some kind of system around how that works.
I know if I were your DM and that was what you really wanted, I'd just wind up letting you roll with it and assume that improvised weapons in your hands did 1d8 or something and leave the rest to fluff.
Of course, im thinking about AD&D1e. If you're playing with a 2e group, then there's all kinds of splats and nonsense but what your DM actually allows? No idea.
>>46068157
You get used to it. I do my regular games as a skype call and roll20 these days. My regular group all went off to different places. Two of my best players actually came from gamefinder threads on tg.
The Player's Option: Combat & Tactics book (ie, the only decent Player's Option book) has a whole section on "Pummeling" which includes rules for improvised weaponry.
>>46068177
Yeah we're playing 2e. We can assume my DM will allow anything RAW, he's easygoing.
I'm not looking for a "build", as I said. I was just wondering if there was something I could do so I'm not just rolling like 1d2, or if I am, then maybe there's something that can make it more worth it. I dunno.
>>46068214
I'll check this out, thanks
>>46068083
> What is everyone playing right now?
Homebrew non-OSR game. Getting ready to run an LotFP hexcrawl campaign
> What are you wanting to play?
OD&D, sometime. I'd like to look at AD&D as well, but every time I do it winds up seeming like an awful lot of work compared to B/x or LotFP.
That's actually a good question.
AD&D anons - why play AD&D over B/x or similar?
>>46068177
Alright, I'll try again in the next GameFinder thread that comes up.
>>46068324
If you get a time and date together, feel free to pitch something here as well.
Anyone knows where I can get a DND basic pdf? Google yields 5e basic rules.
Feel like I've been advertising on these threads a lot, but they are good for recruiting:
I'm currently looking to run the B2 Module with B/x. We've got four players, playing Monday-Tuesday, and need a couple more guys. If it sounds like something you'd dig, please add me on Skype: beholder167
>>46068344
Trove link in OP. Go under the TSR folder.
how i can sell OSR to my dnd 5e players?
>>46068454
Tell them the similarities between the two, and make familiarity apparent so they might be more comfortable with it. Next explain what OSR has to offer, so it won't make them think "Well, why not just stick to 5e instead?"
>>46068322
There are a number of reasons to like AD&D, but the most obvious is if you like more depth with weaponry, and it has a vastly more developed initiative and timing system. It adds an entire added dimension that B/x etc. lacks.
But yeah, its a very mild amount of added work. I find it only about 1% as onerous as, say, tracking gp or xp.
What is Labyrinth Lord most similar to?
Also, what do you like about OSR?
>>46068558
No character builds
>>46068083
Hopefully I'll get to run a game tomorrow, LotFP set in the Book of the New Sun setting
I'd love to run something like Deep Carbon Observatory but as cool as it is to read, I think actually trying to run it would probably be a disaster
>>46068083
Playing? Sadly no OSR games (5E low-magic game though).
Wanting to play? some Basic Fantasy RPG.
>>46068678
You'll have to tell us how it went. We really need more story times in this thread.
>>46068558
No character builds.
Meaningful character progression: Dungeon Robber -> wilderness adventurer/knight errand -> local Lord /wizard wierdo
>>46068083
DMing: 1e
Want to DM/play: OD&D
>>46068558
LL is Moldvay Basic. I would have to squint very hard to find a significant difference. It was basically a way to get b/x back in print.
Gonna second "no character builds". That shit really drags on games.
I like that you sort of get to know a character by what he does in the first couple levels.
Any good modules starting at level 4 or 5?
What are your thoughts on 2e?
>>46071391
>It has a lot of good and interesting modules, but is a burdensome rules set. Fortunately it is pretty easy to use these modules with other rules sets.
I'm so disappointed and irritated by FFG's 40krpg that I'm considering the feasibility of some sort of Warhammer OD&D type analog, as OD&D using the 1d6 or 2d6 systems in Chainmail works perfectly good. Could make a setting neutral analog for general use and that could be applied to be more settings.
>>46071391
My first love and the one I've played the most, period, many low to high level campaigns. It is also my least favorite at the moment due to having more splats than there are stars in the sky that are not mutually compatible.
>>46068083
DMing a 5th edition game right now. Want to try and get a BFRPG or LotFP game together but I'd ruin it by tossing in custom classes and races.
>>46068558
As >>46070087 said, Labyrinth Lord adhere's pretty closely to the original B/X rules. It smooths out the to-hit progression a bit, expands the number of weapons and armor types a bit, regularizes the cleric spell progression and starts 1st level clerics off with a spell, and extends the game to level 20, but in the grand scheme of things, those are relatively minor changes.
>>46068678
>LotFP set in the Book of the New Sun setting
Faaaaawk yeah, that's cool.
Here's a question for you guys: what is there for the party to spend its gold on in your campaigns? How easy it is it to purchase magic items? Can you buy just about anything in the book from ye olde magick shoppe, or is it a bit harder to track things down (and if so, exactly how do you handle it)? How much less will merchants pay for magic items than they sell them for? At a certain point, does gold become almost superfluous in your campaigns? Do you deal with estates and keeps and so forth? What about taxation?
I've been thinking of running a kind of settlers campaign. Something along the lines of a sandbox game where the objective is to build up your pesky little settlement in the unmapped borderlands (there's a number of backstory justifications for this, from exiles to people looking for their fortunes) into something actually worthwhile. The characters need to set up the economy, map the area, look for opportunities and generally make it work. There will be ruins, dungeons, monster groups and the like to poke at/make things intresting. They'll probably start with a very rudimentary setup, with a few handfuls of men and resources. Something like in the spring, having just arrived, with the beginnings of a few houses and the like. Presumably, the main reason to explore dungeons and the wilderness would be to make the area more secure and also obtain money that can be used to buy resources from the closest civilized place.
I think it'd be an intresting idea, and provide more actual goals for dungeon crawling and the loot they'll find. Because this stuff is pretty damn fatal, they'll probably start by having a generic group of "elders" or other decision makers who the players also dictate, and the actual shitshovelers who have to get things done (I.E adventurer characters for the meatgrinder). When some of them get some levels under their belt and establish themselves, they'll replace the old leaders as more permanent faces. The idea is that this will slowly and organically build up from mostly dungeons and monsters, some sandbox stuff, to a game that's more about economy, larger adventures, settlement managing and the like.
Does anyone have any good suggestions for a game like this? I'm thinking that Adventurer Conqueror King would be a pretty natural shoe-in for this sort of campaign (although it'll break a few core assumptions), but if there are other good resources that support sandboxy stuff, economics and the like, I'd be very intrested to see.
>>46073642
The only magic items I let PCs "buy" are potions, by employing an alchemist in their stronghold after they hit name level. They can, iirc, duplicate potions.
Men at arms seem to be a fine thing for PCs to spend stuff on, along with strongholds etc. If the campaign is set up for that. The PCs are going to need heavy duty forces in mine. In mine, the convention is that you have to pay the mercenary's wages to their family if they are dead, and for their gear if its unrecoverable.
>>46073642
In the campaign I played in, the most accomplished character used lootmoney to fund a mercenary army. Let me tell you, games start to look pretty different when you have 100 men at your back.
We didn't use them to clear out dungeons or anything (mostly, we just had a few of them with us as henchmen), but it meant that we had pretty ridiculous logistical power. Like having a secure campsite literally at the doorsteps of dungeons or being able to besiege them or the like.
It was cool.
>>46073642
As for me, I'm currently trying to figure out a way to balance things out. In the past, gold and valuables were just sort of been hand waved. They existed for meta-reasons and were an important reason the party went dungeon delving, but we never really cared for the accounting involved and so paid little attention to it. But I'm trying to come up with an economic system for my game to actually follow and it's proving tricky.
I find wealth and wealth management to be uninteresting, and so want to keep them from being too involved. I'm really not a fan of dungeon delving as a capitalistic business venture with hirelings and shit. I'm also not a fan of the magic mart where you can buy anything magical you want. I'm working on the idea of the party having relatively free access to some low power shit (potions and such), but having to specifically search for bigger items (like using the thief's black market connections and so forth to find if a collector, fellow adventurer or whatever in the general area might have an item like what you're looking for). You'd be limited in the number of things you could search for at one time, and wouldn't be assured of being successful in any given search, but would often have the opportunity to buy stuff.
But the tricky part is that all these limitations make it harder to spend gold, so I'm struggling to come up with a system that reconciles everything. I need to find an additional money sink of some sort to give the PCs something more to do with their gold (while at the same time, keeping things quick and simple as economics is one of the subjects that interests me least).
>>46072882
Hey I'm down if it's BFRPG
I find the lack of simulacra of non-D&D systems interesting. Take a look at the first and second editions of Runequest, Chivalry & Sorcery, Tunnels & Trolls and their late 70s (or early 80s) kin. What is it about these systems that has resulted in a general a lack of emulation and homebrews based on them? Is it disdain for percentile systems? Are the systems too complex to bother with?
>>46074731
Well, the RuneQuest family is fairly large, at least, with the various editions of RQ and Legend, Stormbringer and Elric!, Magic World, OpenQuest, BRP and so forth (not to mention games targeted at different genres like Call of Cthulhu). And when you consider how much more popular D&D is, it's probably not surprising that there isn't a similar retroclone movement for RQ, given how many official games and editions there already are.
>>46074731
Well, the big thing is probably that they're not "The World's Most Popular Roleplaying Game". A lot of the other games just aren't popular enough for there to be a big audience for retroclones of them - especially the ones that don't have as many differences between editions as D&D has, nor the dedicated fanbases for older editions.
Also, the OGL means that you can use D&D mechanics and terms relatively easily without having to worry about getting sued. This is a big one - if it weren't for the OGL, I'm not really sure that the OSR would even be a thing.
>>46074921 is right in that there's a lot of RuneQuest-based games out there, though - hell, the most popular Swedish RPG, Drakar och Demoner, literally started as a BRP translation before they put their own spin on it. They swapped everything to the closest 5% and changed to using d20s, for instance.
>>46074731
OSR is usually focused around early D&D and D&D compatible games. The argument has been made that there were other 'old school' RPGs that should be OSR, and there is a valid point there, but in practice that's not what people think of when the term comes up.
I think a big reason for this is that for a lot of people, OSR has a lot of baggage about play-style, mechanics, and so on that helps define what they are looking for in the game that isn't in "modern" games. People regularly talk about how they love the lack of character builds or skills, or how they enjoy the lack of a unified mechanic, the relatively narrow focus the game has, and so on. All of these things are specific to TSR-era D&D, and most of them specific to pre 2e D&D.
Games like Traveler and Runequest are common examples of old school games that should be OSR but aren't really looked at that way. In both cases, most of the things people claim to like about OSR don't really apply the way they do to say, AD&D or B/x. I think a bigger factor might be that most of these games are still alive in some fashion. Runequest 6 really isn't all that different from earlier runequests. Traveler has been updated, but it has had nowhere near the fundamental changes that you see from AD&D to 3e to 4e to 5e.
Another factor might simply be the OGL. WotC basically created the retroclone market when they made d20 OGL, because the same terms and things could apply across the board. That's why you can have stuff like OSRIC which is a literal clone. I don't know that you could get away with that for Tunnels & Trolls which I believe has an edition still in print.
>>46075006
>>46074921
Runequest has an OGL and mechanics can't be trademarked or copyrighted.
It's just that like so much of /tg/, the OSR is composed of plebs who won't touch anything that isn't D&D or a clone of it.
>>46075097
>aren't really looked at that way
comes down to semantics.
while they may all be "old school", "vaguely compatibile with early (A)D&D" is the definition many think of.
>>46072882
How eager are you to run a BFRPG game on Roll20 or on Critkeeper?
>>46075120
> the OSR is composed of plebs who won't touch anything that isn't D&D or a clone of it.
Fuck right off with your elitist bullshit. If you want to see or play a clone of some other game or discuss some other game, get off your ass and be the change you want to see, Gandhi. Don't sit there and bitch because other people don't like what you like.
Even the base assumption is retarded, as most of the people I know who are heavily into OSR (as opposed to normal D&D) are also the same people who are into other nichey games - AW, Burning Wheel, and so on. The overlap between the indie-games crowd and OSR crowd is huge.
>>46075220
>go out there and force other people to like something
Great plan, Creed.
>>46075239
Don't recall saying you could force anyone to do squat. Just don't sit there and wank on about people not liking what you like. If you want to see retroclones of Tunnels & Trolls, get your happy ass to writing and promoting one rather than bitching that people are plebs because they haven't already done it for you.
>>46075220
It's funny how when people play Pathfinder because it's popular they're just dumb sheeple but when people play old D&D because it's popular they're true renaissance men and roleplaying connoisseurs. Maybe you should go to a hugbox like dragonsfoot if you don't want your feelings hurt.
>>46075261
There are already T&T retroclones, you filthy pleb. Same goes for RQ and TFT as well. You'd know this if weren't a D&D drone.
>>46075302
Ah. I got it. You're a troll. Nevermind. Good work, sir.
>>46075120
I go for old school D&D because it's something so many people have experience with (directly, or indirectly as it underlies later editions, making it a sort of common language of role-gaming. If it were not for this, I'd probably just do my own thing all of the time, because why not individualize and personalize everything? But since folks know D&D, it means they've already gotten most of the learning done for an OSR game before the game is even put out, and that's handy. Not nearly as many people know RuneQuest though, so making a simulacrum of it doesn't have nearly the same advantages, regardless of the merits of the system, itself.
>>46075302
>t's funny how when people play Pathfinder because it's popular they're just dumb sheeple but when people play old D&D because it's popular they're true renaissance men and roleplaying connoisseurs.
If folks only ever played old school D&D those cases might be similar. Sort of. I mean, even though the core of all old school D&D systems is pretty similar, you'd still get a decent bit more variety bouncing around the various games in the category rather than just playing Pathfinder. But the thing is, most folks interested in OSR have a fair number of other games under their belts, and may even use OSR just for a particular niche of gaming. That's what I do, anyway. I honestly have a much greater appreciation for old school D&D in that capacity than as the end all, be all dominator of the market that gets used for everything, like it often was back in the day when it was current.
Are there any good one-shot modules besides Death Frost Doom?
Just a low-level dungeon crawl to fill an afternoon's play, get people's feet wet with an OSR system.
>>46075750
There's so many dungeons for OSR stuff. You can find OSR blogs just full of the stuff. Alternatively, I'd recommend one page dungeons if you're just looking for quick and dirty afternoon fillers. That's basically what they are.
Is there anything with a good encounter chart? I've been trying to look at one, but they're surprisingly rare, which is weird considering how useful they are. Wandering monsters for dungeons are plentiful, but wilderness tables much less so.
Is ASE 2-3 in the trove anywhere? I found 1 in the LL folder, but I don't see 2-3 anywhere.
>>46073635
>>46069536
I started a few months ago with an adventure I wrote myself, and then let the players explore a map populated with different modules modified to fit in the Solar Cycle universe (IE the church in Scenic Dunnsmouth now worships the Conciliator and the Pancreator, the wizard in Tower of the Stargazer had a telescope pointed at the ocean planet the hierodules originally came from before they were forcibly uplifted by the hierogrammates)
The players have never heard of the books but they ended up recreating a lot of the thematic elements. Both Magic Users decided that they were against the coming of the New Sun just based on what they heard about it from the characters, just like the sorcerers Severian fights in the mountains
>>46068108
For 2e the closest thing would be like 1h weapon style from combat and tactics.
Maybe using the, fuck I can't remember the exact name, the pugilist style, its also in combat and tactics splat.
Ah fuck >>46068214 beat me to it haha.,
>>46075750
Dude. DUDE.
OSR is basically where all the cool modules go to. There are SO many incredible indie modules out there.
http://tenfootpole.org/ironspike/?page_id=844
Check out this list for a taste of what's out there.
Man, I should have started watching Adventure Time a long time ago.
I only recently decided to give it a try, and holy shit, it's early D&D as fuck.
Currently in the fourth season, just watched an episode titled "Beyond This Earthly Realm" and it's basically a LotfP module. This show is gonzo as fuck, I'm loving it.
>>46078701
Does anyone else do this? Rank/review OSR modules?
I've seen a few OSR blogs but they're usually about specific topics.
>>46078740
I was just about to ask on another board if this show is good, but the thread was deleted.
Is it good from the beginning? Does it get better or worse? I've heard a lot of complaints about Tumblr and all the usual boogeymen, but I'm scared there's something to them.
(sage since this is pretty off-topic.)
>>46078751
There's the old abandoned crypt of Grognardia.blogspot.com
Legend says it was once the pillar of OSR articles and news, but is now an empty husk of a blog, devoid of activity.
Or something like that, the guy made a kickstarter, reached his goal, but failed to deliver on his premise; went nuts and was never heard from again.
Still, some damn good reviews are in there, but it's VERY nostalgia-biased.
>>46078788
Yeah, it's pretty great from the get go. It gets more serious and there's a lot of continuity in major plot events, but it's basically an episodic show about adventure in a gonzo magical land from the very first episode. The writers are always doing crazy shit, from beginning to end. There are silly episodes, the show overall is very silly and comical, but it consistently delivers awesome themes and concepts.
Also sage hasn't been a thing in years, anon, when they expanded the thread limit or even before that I think.
>>46078788
The episode title cards are pretty sick, too.
>>46068366
Last call on this game. It would be cool to get a couple more guys in.
>>46078828
>Grognardia.blogspot.com
Oh I've read this a lot, shame to hear about the guy.
Although it could have done with some better organizing. Categories or tags or something. I love that >>46078701 has all the links on one page, with a brief summary, and they're in a rough order.
What are some adventure/dungeon hooks that motivate players (not characters)?
>>46079700
>"Brave adventurer, have you ever heard about the Dungeon of Free DM Blowjobs?"
>>46079700
>players (not characters)
What do you mean by that? Metagame reasons to go on an adventure?
>>46079772
As long as that coupon on the thirteenth level can be used cross-dimensionally, damn right I'd conquer that dungeon.
>>46079806
Something that works in-character but gets the PLAYER excited, I guess. It's something I read in a lot of these blog articles and reviews.
I'm guessing we've all written or ran for characters who should have some exciting, personal reason to do X-Y-Z, but the player isn't feeling it.
So I'm wondering what kind of hooks get the players excited to explore the dungeon, not just the character they're playing. Obviously treasure and magic items are always exciting, but what else? Curiosity seems like good bait. It's why people can never resist those fountains with random good/bad effects.
>>46079891
>I'm guessing we've all written or ran for characters who should have some exciting, personal reason to do X-Y-Z, but the player isn't feeling it.
Well, that's just something not fun.
If it's a fun idea, the player will be interested. You should never run an adventure that "makes sense" narratively, but will bore the players.
>>46079891
Honestly, character motivation shouldn't even figure into low level OSR stuff. Most of the characters are going to die quickly and ruthlessly. That's why it's so quick to make new ones.
As for player motivations, I guess you just need to ask/find out what kind of stuff they're intrested in. If they're playing OSR stuff, they're presumably intrested in dungeon crawls or the like. I don't know, I've never had any need to come up with any special plots to get the players intrested. There's a dungeon with presumably loot and danger, one of those is to be had while one is to be avoided.
Or possibly there's a problem that requires solving and has a reward associated. Or something like that. Seriously speaking, OSR-style D&D -stuff is a pretty simple package, and if your players aren't feeling that package without special motivation, maybe they'd like something else better.
Usually, when characters get somewhere (IE they get a few levels and establish themselves somewhat), they'll start to find their place in the world, so to speak. Keep things open-ended, that helps a lot.
>>46079926
Yeah, it's something I've fallen prey to so many times. So now I want to start doing almost the opposite, since it's a game and not a novel.
>>46079987
Find or come up with an intresting dungeon that will challenge the players. There should be danger but also reward. The danger doesn't need to be fair and manageable, and should make the players think and play smart. The treasure should not be easy to obtain, but should be enough that it was actually worth putting effort into getting there.
In my experience, this is all an OSR game really needs in the beginning. It's very much a challenge-based game.
>>46078828
I love reading his retrospectives on older games. It's a shame that the blog is dead and he's crazy/MIA
Is anyone working on their own OSR game? If so, how is it coming along?
>>46082316
I'm building a Sword & Sorcery/Sword & Sandals game based on Howard and Lovecraft in an antiquity-style setting. It's going pretty well. I'll eventually post something here.
>>46082316
>Is anyone working on their own OSR game?
I'm brainstorming one.
Skills and checks are d20 roll under attribute.
Combat is roll d20 to hit AC, with special options for the defender.
Normal classes are Mage, Rogue, Warrior; racial classes include Elves (Rogues with Nature or Transmutation magic), Orcs (basically Barbarians), and Dwarves (Warriors with Earth magic).
At this stage ability score modifiers exist but they're staggered: 9-11 is +0, 12-14 is +1
I'm debating between the traditional spell lists and a "describe what you want to do, how your [fire/water/shadow] magic lets you do it, then roll dice to succeed" system. I hate Vancian casting.
>>46082907
>I hate Vancian casting.
speaking of that, does anyone have some good magic rules replacement?
I don't mind vancian casting too much, but the low levels are just too fucking boring for casters. I'd rather have something that is less powerful but can be used more then literally once per day.
>>46082316
I have been for a while now, though I'm trying something much stranger with Attack vs Defense as combat instead of to-hit vs AC then roll damage. As well as a different magic and skill system. I am a huge contrarian.
>>46083115
BFRPG has rules for cantrips, but you could do "strained casting" where you attempt to cast a spell once your slots are used by rolling under your casting ability, taking damage equal to the spell level per cast. If you fail once though, you take damage and then can't cast spells of that level until you would normally be able to prep them again.
>>46082316
I'm still hacking at the rules for mine. It's an OSR that is focusing on playing akin to BECMI/RC rules using the 5e OGL
I really like the idea of all weapons doing d6 damage. I love that it makes daggers swords equally threatening - which makes sense. You're just as dead if you're stabbed with a sword through something vital as you are a knife.
But how do you make it so the weapons are still relevant? If everything does d6 damage, what's my incentive to use a sword over a club in find on the road?
>>46082316
I'm haltingly working on two, one has AD&D style initiative but aims for basically the OD&D+Chainmail experience regarding math and probabilities, the other is a kitchen sink inspired by Warhammer and Dwarf Fortress in terms of mechanics, but aims at melding archetypes and options similar to World of Darkness, Gamma World and D&D. The latter has been postponed by the former.
The mechanic of the former is mainly d20s, since that's what my players are familiar with and its supposed to not look very different, the mechanic of the latter is intended as exploding d8s but can work with anything.
I like everything about Tower of the Stargazer, except for the Save or Die at the fucking door.
For an introductory module it's pretty fucking harsh to put that there. I love players setting traps by being dumb, but when they just go "I open the door" on their first session of the system and have to roll a save or fucking die, they'll definitely get a shitty impression of the system.
What are some alternatives I can use to circumvent this? I'm thinking either making them roll two characters each, urge them to get hirelings, or changing the save to paralysis and making the character writhe in pain for 1d4 turns.
>>46082316
I was gonna make a cyberpunk OSR, but I don't think I have what it takes to make a game.
>>46084945
Simple. This chart gives you almost completely identical probabilities (off by no more than 3.3% in some cases) as OD&D w/ Chainmail's Man to Man system.
As weapons are loosely given weapon classes on something reminiscent of better to worse, you can also use this to rate what should be the rarity and difficulty of different weapons. For example, if you want human fighters to be discretely superior to elven fighter mages, they may be able to use all weapon classes, while elves might be restricted to 1-4 plus spears and quarterstaves.
>>46084988
Why? I liked what I saw so far, I've been keeping up with your posts.
What did you use to make the layout and shit? It looks nifty.
>>46084988
I actually had a cyberpunk OSR game in mind as well. It's been sitting on my desk waiting for me to have time for it.
>>46085011
Sorry, I mean 2.3%
>>46084979
Did you read the text explaining it?
You could always explain it even more.
>"As you reach for the serpent-shaped handle, it comes to life and spits a green fluid, then returns to its handle form. Do you still want to grab it?"
Honestly, the fact that players even get a CHANCE in the module is pretty generous. It's obviously a bad idea to touch the snake handles instead of the knocker, unless the GM forgot to describe them.
If I made an OSR game built around an existing property and posted it online on /tg/ and other places, what are the chances of me getting my ass sued off?
>>46085021
mostly cause I have no clue as how to make things balanced when assigning dice rolls and whatnot. I've jotted character stuff down, like this, but haven't really gone back to it in a while.
feedback is interesting too. some people want the whole party to be involved in hacking and others just want it to me a quick DC check.
and I just used photoshop.
>>46085128
There's no reason at all new players should assume a snek doorknob should instantly kill them. If you want to get new players into the mindset of being ultra cautious, you need to ramp it up.
>>46085209
anydice will help
>>46085146
don't make money off it and credit yourself with a handle.
>>46085281
Ok..I hope that works.
>>46085209
The main thing when making a system is play testing it. That's how you figure out balance and shit.
Where did you get that sick art tho?
>>46085128
That's basically just giving the trap away. I think it's okay to have a save or die trap in the module, but NOT on the first fucking door. Especially when that door is the only means they have of getting inside the tower.
I usually have them save or take some damage, instead of outright dying. This has always worked, and the players get smarter instead of being afraid of touching everything.
Highlight of my last session running it, in which a player failed his door roll and would have died, but instead I simply dealt him 1d4 necrotic damage, the players found out the entrance beneath the statue, fought the stone spider, and then when faced with the doors with Claws for knobs, the same player who failed the door roll came up with a plan: he threw the bucket at the door knobs before touching them, activating the trapped one and crushing the bucket.
>>46085379
i like to browse tumblr and deviant art and here for interesting pictures. iirc that hacker is from one of the original covers for Neuromancer.
>>46085146
If you don't charge for it, it's not a crime.
You have to take it down if the property owners contact you, but otherwise it's non profit fan work, completely legal.
>>46085404
Nice. What did you use to make it pixelated?
>>46085431
filter > pixelate > mosaic
fuck with the exposure and offset to get a nice, darker and oversaturated look.
what sort of classes would be good for a post-apocalyptic OSR?
Wastelander [fighter]
Crafter [mage]
Keeper [cleric]
Ruin Diver [thief]
Mutant
>>46085483
Worked great. Thanks senpai.
>>46085146
People make fan-hacks of things all the time. There's a Heresies Without Number SWN hack somewhere out there. Savage Worlds is basically built around this.
As long as you aren't making any profit off of it, people generally won't care.
>>46075097
>The argument has been made that there were other 'old school' RPGs that should be OSR, and there is a valid point there
No there isn't. The "Old School Revival" took place within the D&D-playing community, and in this case "old-school" implies "...D&D play style". OSD&DPSR just isn't a very good acronym, plus it was never an issue until the OSR became popularoutside the major D&D forums and whiny fags like >>46075120 immediately popped up to piss and bitch about how all the attention doesn't go to their favorite old game.
Basically the situation with the term OSR is like the "Temperance Movement". It's not just about being temperate in general and not all temperate behavior could be considered part of it, it was specifically a movement against alcohol abuse. If you showed up at a temperancers' meeting being all noisy about temperate attitude in child-raising you'd have gotten clubbed and thrown out.
>>46085895
>muh purity infected with those who would dare to play another game
fuck off, graybeard.
>>46085895
This is the kind of trash which makes the entire OSR community look bad. Instead of accurately pointing out that "OSR" often points to vaguely compatible materials that cross multiple games, you decide to be some shitty elitist D&D asshole.
>>46085895
The worst part of this post is that the anon you are responding to is on the same side you are, but just allowed that they could see the point made by people with a different opinion. Good thing you stepped in to make sure everyone understands that sort of talk is verboten.
>>46085209
>mostly cause I have no clue as how to make things balanced when assigning dice rolls and whatnot. I've jotted character stuff down, like this, but haven't really gone back to it in a while.
If I were you I'd just go apeshit. Jot down everything you can think of, look at anything that looks completely wack on a second examination, make a playtest, run it.
That will also let you figure out shit like if having the whole group hackdelving is fun, or just sucks and hacking should be a simple roll.
>>46085967
>>46086042
>>46086119
Nice samefagging. Next time make the intervals between posts a liiiittle less identical.
As for the rest, I'm probably younger than you, I just understand that all words and terms don't mean everything at the same time, and there's no reason to bawwww over that. There's nothing wrong with playing any game at all that you like, that just doesn't in any way mean all old games are or should be OSR-relevant. "Old-school" doesn't just mean old.
>>46086199
> A bunch of people call me out on my bullshit
> Must be a samefag
You must be the same troll as before. Good job, I guess. b8/10.
>>46085967
>>46086042
>>46086119
I hate elitism and pedantry, but he is completely right.
OSR was born out of D&D. The "Old School" part refers pretty much exclusively to early D&D and its derivatives/clones.
Runequest, for example, is old, but not really OLD SCHOOL in the OSR sense, since it has a much more modern, build-focused approach to gaming.
>>46086295
I completely agree that it's D&D-focused. The post that he was even responding to agreed that it was D&D focused. No one has actually argued that it wasn't. He was literally bitching because the post indicated allowed for the idea of an opposing argument — one that has been had on these very threads before.
The whole topic is fairly useless to argue one way or another, since people across the internet will continue to define the term in different ways and have differing opinions on what it means. The wikipedia page for OSR lists dungeon world, ferfucksake.
Why waste time on it?
>>46086363
But Dungeon World is OSR in spirit, since it's all about exploring dungeons and ruins and shit.
It's about focusing on the mechanics and the narrative instead of acting out little scenes and doing things because "my character would do it".
Just like Torchbearer, it veers away drastically in gameplay from classic D&D, but the result is still similar to early D&D in theme and spirit.
Runequest, Palladium Fantasy, and all these "old modern" RPGs are all about making a very structured character with a plethora of different options and builds, and built towards event based gaming instead of dungeon crawling.
I have to agree with him when he says that it's not a valid argument, because I think you can't just take a well established niche and simply mold it to fit your criteria.
You can't just make a game using the Traveller ruleset and advertise it as part of the OSR movement, simply because Traveller is old.
Your system can be old school without being OSR. OSR is just the name, it's not literally about bringing back EVERY old system out there.
>>46086475
>opinions that nobody in their right mind should have a problem with
You tell 'em, anon.
>>46086475
> Anon already agrees with your position and explains why you'll never actually convince anyone else or change anything
> Proceed to try to do exactly that to someone who already agrees with you.
>>46086475
>Runequest, Palladium Fantasy, and all these "old modern" RPGs are all about making a very structured character with a plethora of different options and builds, and built towards event based gaming instead of dungeon crawling.
Yeah, it gets extra goofy when people mention Runequest because Runequest is the first or second (I forget when Chivalry & Sorcery came out) solidly "new school" RPG ever published.
I just don't get why it's so painful to people to imagine that there might exist a term which really only or almost only concerns D&D. Like, some of us want to talk about old-school D&D and its play style specifically and nothing else, what are we supposed to do? Just invent a new term until someone gets assravaged over not being included under THAT umbrella, and just keep term-hopping? It seems easier for everybody to acknowledge that you can play whatever you want to play and nobody begrudges you your tastes, but OSR is a specific and pretty limited thing.
>>46086622
Tilting at windmills is OSR as hell.
>>46086666
It's true. It was published in 1605, after all.
>>46086622
This isn't fucking sports, I'm not trying to win anything, I'm just making a point that OSR is its own thing, it's not a banner for all old school systems ever made.
There's nothing to agree or disagree with this, it's just what it
is.
>>46086663
>Like, some of us want to talk about old-school D&D and its play style specifically and nothing else, what are we supposed to do?
You talk about OSR. That's literally why the movement exists.
It's like Retrowave, aka Synthwave. It's about taking SPECIFIC retro/vintage sound influences and making a new genre out of it. It's not about every retro musical genre out there, just a very specific type of vintage synth music.
But what if you want to make new music using retro influences that aren't part of the Retrowave influences?
Well, then you're making retro-inspired music, but you're not making Retrowave music.
You can take, I don't know, the TMNT RPG and build upon it, and it will certainly be an old school system, fueled by vintage RPG influences, and it will be perfectly alright, and I would also probably play it because it actually sounds pretty rad, but it would certainly not be OSR, because OSR is a specific niche genre for old school D&D style of gaming.
>>46086622
Those ARE giants, and if thou art afraid, away with thee out of this and betake thyself to prayer, while I engage them in fierce and unequal combat!
>>46086727
>You talk about OSR. That's literally why the movement exists.
Right, that's what I'm saying. It's unreasonable to get upset that not every game and every player is included. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
>>46086768
I know, I was building upon your argument, not disagreeing with it.
>>46086727
Man, everybody's all agreeing and stuff. Did I take a wrong turn on the way to 4chan or something?
I don't understand why people think that just because we like OSR it must mean we hate other games and only play OSR.
>>46086817
Aggressively agreeing.
>>46086839
Good question. I play a bit of everything, though these days its mostly games with a tight focus. If I'm not playing OSR dungeon crawls I'm off doing indie-games with a nar focus, usually. The contrasts between the two make me appreciate each more.
>>46086776
Oh okay, my bad. It's getting a bit late where I am.
>>46086839
I think it's just what happens when you start with a stereotype and then begin trying to make people fit it.
>>46086839
My #2 game after B/X is Ryuutama...and after that, Ars Magica.
>>46086902
>Ryuutama
I've been thinking about playing but I'm not sure if it's worth the money.
>>46068340
I did just that anon. I guess I'll post it here too.
>>GM/Player
GM
>>System Preferred
Labyrinth Lord with Advanced Classes.
>>Times Available (with timezone!)
Friday Afternoon EST
>>Method of Play (Skype, IRC, roll20, etc)
Skype for voice, roll20.
>>Contact Info
email: [email protected]
skype: soniciscool3 (don't mind the autism)
>>Additional Notes
My first attempt at DMing, I'll try my best.
>>46086997
>skype: soniciscool3
>>46086997
>don't mind the autism
It's okay, this is /tg/. We're all autistic here.
>>46085712
Probably mutant (scavenger, strong at melee, durability and regen, only ranged affinity is due to his ability to scavenge ammo+fuel and carry very heavy weapons that can't be used very often), cyborg (techie, great ballistic defenses, high basis of electronic knowhow, can recharge energy weapons from on board power plant while other classes have to use them in a limited capacity), and survivor (improvised scrappy crafter and troubleshooter, can make and use great all around armor and vehicles which the others can fit into, robots detect him as human and thus may help him, charisma/leadership as well -- also, medkits etc. are designed for humans first and foremost).
Similar broad triumvirate of classes as OD&D but different.
>>46086902
>Ars Magica.
How's that?
I always thought it was some weeb shit for some reason, I have no idea why, but I checked it out recently and it's nothing like what I expected. It actually sounded really cool.
The concept of a player having both a Magic-User character and a Companion one sounded really cool.
From what I've been gathering it sounds like the Magi are kinda on rotation, as in one or two players are normally playing as their Magi PCs during adventures and the rest play their Companion PCs, while the rest of the Magi stay in their towers buried under tomes studying and researching new spells and shit.
>>46086475
>But Dungeon World is OSR in spirit, since it's all about exploring dungeons and ruins and shit.
I'm skeptical, since dungeon exploration is the default theme of both D&D and a large portion of other RPG titles.
> but the result is still similar to early D&D in theme and spirit.
You mentioned "its about focusing on the... narrative," and I'm very skeptical that "the... narrative" was ever a focus at all.
Still, I'm trying to be polite. On what basis would you consider "focusing on the... narrative" to be old school? It strikes me as even more new school than the char build heavy new school genre (3e, White Wolf, FFG era 40krp etc.)
>>46085712
Cyborg and Robot would also be good choices to what you've got, maybe variants on Wastelander to cover the Barbarian, Ranger, and Paladin(replace Horse with either a Car or if you want to go Brotherhood of Steel, maybe a set of Power Armor, maybe do them as separate classes) archetypes as well
>>46087410
Poor wording on my part.
I meant narrative in the sense of literally what is happening in the game narratively, not in the "narrativist" sense of focusing on the story.
Dungeon World works by having the players and DM narrate their actions, and in turn trigger the rules with certain keywords and contexts. This is still very gamist in nature, there's only a set ammount of actions an individual character can trigger, based on his class and level, and everything in the world is still structured in some way, even if things are much more abstract than in D&D. It's still about going on episodic adventures, beating challenges and getting loot as opposed to event based or story based gaming.
The opposite to this would be something like FATE, in which the rules serve to trigger changes in the narrative, and thus the experience is more focused on the story and the character arcs instead of the rules themselves.
>>46087560
Alright. All I'm going to say on the topic is that I consider it fundamentally contradictory for a game that is first and foremost narrative oriented to be OSR as it doesn't get more modern than that.
>>46087679
I'm confused as to what you're arguing against.
I agree that narrativist games are a big departure from OSR, I was saying that Dungeon World can be considered OSR IN SPIRIT as it follows a more gamist approach than other more narrative focused games, on top of being heavily themed around dungeon delving and etc.
I wouldn't say Dungeon World is a full on OSR game though, and it has very little place in the discussions that happen within the OSR community.
>>46087735
Yeah, but it's a narrative game about avoiding traps, turning the undead and slaying beholders to get sweet loot.
It's heavily influenced by early D&D, just like OSR games, so it's not that hard to see why there'd be some overlap there.
>>46087735
>it doesn't get more modern than that.
I don't know. We didn't call it "narrative" back in the day, because there was no such terminology, but I know my groups all had the same deal happening as Dungeon World where the rules have to take a back seat to what the DM has said about the story; he's the judge and his word goes. If the rules say something that doesn't make sense in the moment, they have to take a hike for a while and the DM will fill in the broken bits to make things sensible again.
I'm thinking of running a Mystara/Known World campaign using BFRPG. Is this a good idea or should I just walk away from it now?
>>46088066
Mystara's a really good setting, so I'd say it's a pretty good idea overall
>>46088123
I'm just asking since I know the Known World was meant for play with the B/X, BECMI and RC rules, and BFRPG deviates a fair bit from it.
>>46088066
>>46088206
mystara is the best m8
my favorite old school setting.
I'd say mystara can work on most D&D versions (even modern ones) since the setting isn't really rules-dependent. All the monsters are standard D&D fare, all the NPCs have classes that are easily translatable to whatever version of OSR you're using.
>>46082316
Yep! Second Draft of 'Wolfpacks' is currently in the works, and I should be able to whack the PDF up soon.
bump
How would you make an Owlbear freakier for a LotFP adventure?
>>46090183
Make it even more horrifying, a Dogbear. An abomination with the body of an Owlbear and a head similar to that of a Dog.
>>46087833
Well of course we didn't call it narrative back in the day, because it didn't exist. One can't really overstate what a departure narrativist games are.
>>46090645
Even scarier: give it the head of a bear.
>>46090183
Emphasize that they hunt at night, have near perfect vision in the shadows, and have all of the size and strength of a bear. They move swiftly and silently, not needing to resort to the ambush tactics of other predators because they are a mass of unstoppable muscle hurdling towards you through the underbrush. They screech a horrifying sound that gives everyone hearing it a migraine, and then they leap a surprising height through the air to come crashing down on their target.
Basically, imagine a bear. Now make that bear a carnivore that's hunting you at night.
>>46090839
How about no?
>>46090183
The problem with owlbears is the same problem with zombies. Anything that players are familiar with and can readily identify isn't going to be freaky or scary. If you want to make an owl-bear freaky, you need to get into descriptive mode. Emphasize the musty smell, the weird noises it makes. Don't refer to it by name. Describe its giant, soulless black eyes, the monstrous razor-beak. Give it some twists, even, to keep them on their toes.
The key to making something freaky or scary is to make it unfamiliar. People can deal with the known, no matter how bad it is. Uncertainty though is always unnerving.
>>46090679
The TERMS surrounding "narrativist" play didn't exist in an RPG context; many of those methods of play most certainly did. We just didn't call them "narrative' because that terminology hadn't been invented.
It's not a huge "departure" or anything; a lot of what's called "narrativist" today has its roots all the way back in Blackmoor.
>>46094416
>Blackmoor
More like Braunstein, I think, if people mean what I think they mean when they say "narrativist".
I'm not too sure about that, though.
Hey, open question: what do you personally mean when you talk about "narrativist" play? What does that entail to you?
>>46094491
It's a whole set of things encompassing by the N in GNS. For one thing, up above I mentioned Dungeon World's whole "fiction first" principle, which is basically a corollary of the old Rule Zero.
What happens in the story has to make sense. If the rules don't make sense, then the DM tosses them aside and decides what happens (though in DW the whole table may be responsible for figuring it out, it's not necessarily so; the only rule is the DM should "ask questions and use the answers") to ensure that the world makes sense.
This principle is called "narrativist" today, but it's been practiced by good DMs as far back as I go, which is a good 30 years. I gather Dave Arneson was a practitioner.
A counterexample of an actually modern "narrativist" idea would be the kind of thing FATE does with aspects, where players have mechanics available to them that they can use to alter the game world by introducing heretofore undescribed elements, and stuff like that.
By contrast, a player in Dungeon World, by RAW, will only instantiate new things to the world by making use of exploratory moves, poking things that the DM hasn't thought of yet and forcing him to respond - which is how it's always worked in RPGs when you get to the edge of what the DM has prepped.
Narrativism is a component of RPGs that is built right into the very concept, IMO, but it's only been recently that it's been heavily explored and had games that try to consciously make use of it.
>>46088300
>>46088123
Not him, but I've been thinking about using Mystara as the setting for a few games too.
What's the first book I should read on the setting, you guys think? Preferably one that is in the trove.
>>46078788
Imo, the first 4 seasons are good. The first two seasons are actually very, very good. The show is kind of terrible now, though I have yet to watch the latest season to be fair.
>>46095092
I don't know what's on the trove but I reccomend either the Grand Duchy of karameikos gazeteer, since I'd say karameikos captures the essence of mystara perfectly, or Karameikos, Kingdom of Adventure, which is the same place but a few years in the future.
Anyway, assuming all the gazeteers are on the trove, I'd reccomend reading elves of alfheim, dwarves of rockhome, and 5 shires after karameikos. This way you get a good idea of the cultures of the humans, elves, dwarves and halflings.
>>46095333
>Karameikos, Kingdom of Adventure
Yay, metaplot.
Gotta love how Wrath of the Immortals fucked up the setting and made a whole bunch of modules incompatible with it.
Also, Karameikos is hardly the only human nation - you've also got the Renaissance Italians, the Byzantine Empire, the Vikings, the Arabs that live adjacent to the Vikings, the Indians, the Mongol Hordes, the Native Americans, Wizard Country, and I'm sure that I'm forgetting some more.
The demihumans just have one country each (mostly - the Elves also have one in the north somewhere without a Gazeeteer), but there's tons of humans.
Grand Duchy of Karameikos is pretty good, though, and the early Gazeteers are generally pretty solid and don't tie into the metaplot too much. But really, though, there's something like three different Mystaras: there's the vague one from the adventures and BECMI, there's the more structered one from the Gazetteers, and there's the post-Wrath AD&D 2E version where they wrecked the setting and went full hog with the metaplot.
Although, really, the metaplot ran through the entirety of the Gazetteers. Less noticeable in the early ones, though.
Is there a name for the continent setting of X1 The Isle of Dread? Was it ever expanded on anywhere? I like the map and B4 suggests placing the adventure there.
I'm mostly wondering about other maps, modules, what pantheon of gods to use, etc.
>>46074386
>>46073642
Something that I believe is underused in campaigns is art objects, used as gifts or symbols of status.
If your characters want to build a stronghold and simply be a minor landed noble who loots ancient gravesites for fun, then they can just hoard their gold (and maybe eventually draw the attention of greedy dwarves or a ravenous dragon!).
But if they want to become serious power players at court, they'll have to commission songs, great works of art to lavish on their allies, build ornate churches to win the awe of the common folk, and outfit men at arms to send to the king's wars (which, depending on the kingdom, may very well be an annual affair).
mo money mo problems.
And the more loot you have hoarded, the more you have to spend to lock it up and protect it. Where do you suppose all those dungeons came from in the first place?
>>46074731
D&D had first mover advantage. It was once so popular that the boxed sets were for sale in regular department stores.
>>46095615
>Principalities of Glantri
>Duchy of Karameikos
>Republic of Darokin
>Alfheim
>Emirate of Ylaruam
Isn't that all Mystara?
>>46095665
Shit, I didn't even realize the discussion going on at the moment was about the same setting. I thought this was just something they made up for the module, and Mystara was separate.
Thanks >>46095333, since I guess I'm in the same boat as >>46095092
>>46095333
Thanks, they're all in the Trove.
>>46095578
>Also, Karameikos is hardly the only human nation
I didin't say it was, though. I just think it's the most "representative" of the setting. In my opinion, it perfectly encapsulates the spirit of mystara.
It's simply a great place to start a campagin in.
Close to all 3 demihuman kingdoms, next to the human empire, has a big city, and more rural areas, has elven, dwarven, and halfling colonies so it make sense to have all player characters come from the same kingdom/duchedom, and so on.
>metaplot
I was okay with the metaplot because kingdom of karameikos just sounds nicer to me then grand duchy of karameikos, and thyatis was pretty much about to fall anyway. I was not okay with alfheim being taken over though, having yet another setting with elves that have no home and are diminishing is just boring.
>>46095615
The setting is known as "The Known World," later fully named "Mystara" when it was edited (read *HORRIBLY REDONE*) for AD&D 2E. However, the continent that most of the lore (and maps) deal with is called Brun.
>>46095797
>having yet another setting with elves that have no home and are diminishing is just boring.
Well there is the Elven Kingdom of Wendar in the north, but it got very, very little attention.
>>46095797
>I was okay with the metaplot because kingdom of karameikos just sounds nicer to me then grand duchy of karameikos, and thyatis was pretty much about to fall anyway. I was not okay with alfheim being taken over though, having yet another setting with elves that have no home and are diminishing is just boring.
The big problem, I feel, was how Wrath of the Immortals made it so that half the old modules just didn't fucking work anymore because lol metaplot.
Mostly because they blew up Glantri and sank Atlantis. And guess what nation has a huge focus in nearly every single module made for levels above Expert?
Hell, even the Expert-level adventures didn't get spared - X10 is just straight-up fucked, for instance.
Fuck metaplot and fuck the 90's cashcow that it rode in on. I can't think of a single setting that was actually made better by an actively advancing metaplot.
Especially with the Almanacs.
>>46096111
It's worth noting that the Known World is just a teensy-tiny little bit on the south-eastern corner of Brun.
It's in the little bit labled "Empire of Thyatis" on this map.
Also, note how the world map is literally just Earth during the Jurassic Era or something like that. There's even an optional reveal in the Immortal set that the planet is actually literally just Earth in the distant past when magic and dinosaurs and whatnot were still a thing. Hell, the living planet is literally named "Urt".
The Mystara name is from way, way later.
Is there any way to get hexographer free? If not, is there a better alternative than the free version? I'm not really running into issues right now, but those extra features are bugging me.
>>46096384
>sank Atlantis
with a name like that it had to sink man
>blew up Glantri
I had no idea glantri blew up. I'm kinda curious, what books did they publish that continued the metaplot? I'm only aware of Karameikos Kingdom of adventure being published in AD&D2e era.
I was reading Blackmoor: The First Fantasy Campaign and I was surprised with some of the rules Arneson mentions using. He brings up HD being based mostly on the size of the creature and that it did not increase with level. Character's did get harder to hit with level and received a kind of save versus damage. Now this seems to be used on top of Chainmail which I'm not particularly familiar with.
Are there any solid resources or clones for play in that original Arneson style?
>>46095092
Cook Expert isn't bad, actually. The overview in RC's nice too, for a quick grasp.
>>46097168
>with a name like that it had to sink man
Well, technically it's Alphatia but one of the CM adventures had a dumb not-twist where some old crone tells you that "the secret of Alphatia is ATLANTIS" or something like that.
Also, it got saved and stored in the Hollow World as a bunch of floating islands because lolplot.
>I had no idea glantri blew up.
That's the big thing in the end of Wrath of the Immortals - the Nucleus of the Spheres goes kablooey and leaves a great crater in its wake. Also, Rad gets abducted by the Old Ones.
>I'm kinda curious, what books did they publish that continued the metaplot?
Mostly just the Almanacs, I think - IIRC the only big books they published post-2E were Kingdom of Adventure, Glantri: Kingdom of Magic, and a remake of X2. There's also document floating around about how Bruce Heard was planning on continuing the metaplot with extra products and stuff (Heldann Gazetteer!), but the setting eventually got canceled.
This RPGnet thread is a goldmine for Known World stuff:
>https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?724379-Let-s-Read-The-Known-World-Mystara-ALL-of-it-from-the-beginning
>>46097198
I don't think so? I remember reading parts of an ODD74 thread talking about how the hell Arneson played, though.
There's some clues out there, though, like the Wizard Gaylord sheet.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EVQsIETO_A
See 6:47 in particular, and pause a bit to take a closer look.
>>46097198
>Are there any solid resources or clones for play in that original Arneson style?
I never read them and don't know how authentic they are, but a guy named Boggs did two retroclones trying to emulate Arneson's game. One of them was called "Dragons at Dawn" or something like IIRC.
Ultimately, though, the key thing about Arneson's playstyle honestly seems to have been that he didn't use rules, for anything, until someone got interested in it. He seems to have literally started out with a Chainmail campaign with some peculiar conceits, then just tacked shit on as he went along. I'd argue that to go full Arneson you'd have to do that same thing: start out with a wargame, characters as special figures in that wargame, and a clear idea of what kind of style and tone you want, then improvise and systemize from there *as you play*.
>>46098557
Yeah, it's worth noting that I'm pretty sure that Arneson never really stopped fiddling around with the rules. He just kept changing stuff behind the scenes, but the players didn't really know much about the details since he kept them to himself. All they knew were the details on their character sheets and how to roll the dice.
>>46098359
>Glantri: Kingdom of Magic
I had no idea this existed. I thought my own TSR pdf folder had all TSR books but it seems I missed one.
Are all the X series set in the Known World/mystara?
>>46086941
$35 for a full color, heavily illustrated hardback seems like a good value to me.
>>46099331
And yet that doesn't amount to anything if the contents of the book aren't actually going to be to your liking.
>>46099229
Ayup. All of the Basic Dungeons & Dragons modules got (retroactively, in some cases) placed in various parts of the Known World.
The X series is the Expert series, as in the E of BECMI - the others are the B series, the CM series, the M series, and the I series. The latter two had very few adventures, and CM didn't get too many either. There were also some other BD&D (or just Dungeons & Dragons, I suppose) adventures out there, but I don't have a complete list of them.
I think the only D&D adventures that aren't set in the Known World are the ones in the Thunder Rift setting, which got introduced later as a way of making Basic more accessible.
>>46099331
(Not that guy)
Only if you actually play it, though. If the book just lies around gathering dust in your bookshelf, things start to look a bit more expensive.
>>46099422
where in the known world is keep in the borderlands?
>>46099495
Somewhere in the north of Karameikos? B1 and B2 got retroactively placed in Karameikos in GAZ1 despite it not making that much sense, IIRC. Or maybe it was in Mentzer's Basic set, I don't remember.
B1's background especially doesn't make sense in the context of Karameikos, since there's a bunch of geographic details there that don't fit.
B3 was explicitly set in Glantri, though, and B4 had a suggestion for an exact hex in Ylaraum. (Note that back then it wasn't even the Known World - it was just the map from the X1 module.)
>>46100906
>B3 was explicitly set in Glantri, though
Whoops, sorry, got that wrong. The ORIGINAL B3 was set in north-western Glantri - the updated version got placed in eastern Karameikos for some reason I don't understand. Seriously, what?
>>46101059
>the updated version got placed in eastern Karameikos for some reason I don't understand. Seriously, what?
The reason was that at that point TSR really, really wanted Karameikos specifically to be the starting setting for Basic, rather than the Known World in general. I don't know why exactly, but they seem to have really wanted that geographic restriction. Maybe they just figured the wide angle and international travel was better suited to Expert, I dunno.
>>46086622
>>46086666
Don Quijote is OSR as fuck in general. In fact, each chapter could provide inspiration for very nice adventures, and the best part is that not unlike the novel, our protagonists are also deluded madmen prone to violence and fantasizing.
Now i want to run a literal Don Quijote campaign
>>46101803
I wrote a Don Quixote class for Basic once, it was based on the concept that the entire setting was the character's delusional fantasy and his powers were essentially a question of "real-world" acts interfering with the fantasy, like "the ogre is actually a chair! The Quixote takes 1d6 damage getting tangled into it and falling as he charges it, but it 'dies' at once since a chair can't fight back." Shit like that.
>>46101953
You have to post it at once my good man
>>46102293
I don't have it in any digital form, I actually just wrote the idea down when I had it into a campaign journal. But the basic gist was he worked like a Fighter, same XP, and had these abilities which worked on a principle of, each use would give the referee a token to screw the Quixote over in an analogous way later -- take that level 1 ability, of insta-bypassing an obstacle or monster (I assumed this would be OK since Sleep and Charm are similar encounter-bypassing abilities): suppose the Quixote used it to break down a tough locked door (in reality, a barn door with rotten planks), the referee could later have a "goblin" turn out to be an angry constable arresting the Quixote for destruction of property and implausibly overpowering him (i.e. insta-defeating him in that encounter). Late rabilities would be more reality-warping shenanigans like changing stuff about the setting since after all, he was just imagining the whole thing.
In the end nobody ever played one because my players thought it was too meta and weird. On reflection though, even just on paper I think straight Fighter XP was probably unfairly low, he should've been higher. 3k to level 2 maybe.
Maybe this helps as a framework to roll your own? Sorry I couldn't deliver in full.
>>46091112
>>46094152
Thanks for the help guys. The players are very new to roleplaying so they didn't even know what an owlbear was, making the encounter pretty creepy. They were about to get fucked by it but managed to get some miraculous criticals by the end that saved their skin. We had a great time.
>>46102565
I can see why your players didn't want to touch it, though. If there's a class like that in the campaign, that literally means that all the other characters are just in his head, which more or less means that other players are playing NPCs for this character. If one of the characters straight-up, as per rules, is actually the one for whom the whole world (at lest as presented by the game) exists, then everyone else is by definition there for him.
Maybe this would work for a really goofy game, but otherwise I'm not seeing it even for OSR stuff where the characters are generally just tools for play, especially at lower levels. It'd feel shitty, honestly.
>>46102907
>I can see why your players didn't want to touch it, though.
Oh yeah, I don't blame 'em. It was just an idea I had and threw down on paper, it's a weird one for sure. The discussion just reminded me of it.
>>46085011
You really need to abbreviate leather… and really fix all the alignment of the columns.
>>46107977
Yeah I'll have my editor get on it right away
>>46108556
Editors are great. I can't tell you how glad I am to have one. Now when I say something stupid, it's their fault.
Okay people, here's a question, what's your favorite Known World/Mystara Gazateer(the Creature Crucible and Hollow World books count as Gazateers for the purposes of this question)?
>>46110201
Orcs of Thar, with the caveat that the balance ranges from bad to bizarre
>>46110201
Grand Duchy of Karameikos
Sadly I only own the AD&D version, Kingdom of Karameikos
Why do old AD&D books make my allergies act up? I've never experienced this with any other book, and I have a lot of old books, but I have this problem with every AD&D book I own.
>>46110201
Kingdom of karameikos
because nostalgia since I got the book when I was a kid
>>46110509
all I know is that my cat peed on my karameikos book once and I was never able to get rid of the smell, even years later.
>>46110608
The only way to neutralize cat pee is with dog pee. You need to get a dog to pee on your book.
>>46110509
Mold. Those books are probably fucked desu, you can't really fix that.
>>46098359
>a remake of X2.
I thought Mark of Amber was a sequel to X2.
>>46099495
>>46100906
The Keep is actually in Greyhawk. B3 was in Glantri for the orange-cover version, then got turned setting-neutral for the green-cover remake.
>>46111154
Its probably more accurate to say that Greyhawk has an instance of the Keep, not that there is any canon as to what world the Keep is in. Afterall, its greatly implied that it is near B1 (the Cave of the Unknown) and that is in Mystara supposedly.
>>46111154
And the Isle of Dread is in Mystara, Greyhawk (3E), the Feywild (4E), and the Elemental Plane of Water (5E).
Also, IIRC Return to the Keep on the Borderlands literally has a Cynidicean in it.
The Keep was originally a setting-neutral Basic product, got retroactively placed in the Known World, and then got retroactively placed in Greyhawk.
Hell, take this snippet from an interview:
>March 2001
>Q: "Was the Keep on the Borderlands originally in the World of Greyhawk and if so where did you place it in your campaign?
>A: "KotB was not set on Oerth, it was just a free-form locale that any DM could fit into his campaign world. Likely it would be okay on the border of the Pomarj, though." (email to Gene Weigel, quoted in Dragonsfoot forum post in 2003)
>>46110509
What are you allergic to?
A question for you all:
What is the best spellbook and/or ruleset for necromancer for OSR games?
>>46112396
>What are you allergic to?
His old AD&D books. Try to pay attention.
Do multiple attacks for monsters exist in pre-Greyhawk OD&D?
Also, how should I handle the bonus attacks against 1HD enemies that fighters get in later supplements, if I'm using Alternate Combat instead of Chainmail?
>go to FNM
>overhear a clerk telling a regular about a "D&D through the ages" game where he starts with OD&D and adds the supplements
I'm convinced that either this guy lurks here or on Dragonsfoot, where I've seen a similar idea.He works at The Game Closet.
>>46113109
Well, that really depends on what you mean with "Necromancer" and what you want out of the concept.
>>46113701
Greyhawk didn't add those, Anon. Fighting Capability isn't part of the Alternate Combat System, and is right there in Men & Magic.
Attack/Defense capabilities of monsters are in Monsters & Treasure, right after the big tables - they get one attack per hit die against normals and add their plusses to one of them.
By the way, it's not just 1HD enemies or anything like that - it's just nonfantastic opponents. Generally a good guide is to look at the monster table and check whether or not you encounter them in their hundreds - if they look like they should probably be scaled down into a single figure in mass combat, they're normals.
>>46114074
>what you mean with "Necromancer" and what you want out of the concept
I'm generally thinking magic created in a semi-to-completely immoral way in order to make weird, morbid and/or occult things happen, such as making the dead live again.
But if you know of anything labeled "necromancer" that isn't like that and it is good, I would still be interested in reading it.
>>46114074
Thanks for the clarification on those rules.
I mentioned 1HD because that's how it's run in AD&D, which I'm most familiar with.
>>46068083
I do LotFP, and I want to do some Into the Odd.
As a Dungeon Master.
>>46114324
Isn't AD&D the one that has "LESS THAN one hit die"?
CM1 - Test of the Warlords
Good module? My players are just nearing level 15 and I think it would be an interesting look to see how they would be a warlord and all.
I'm looking for anything extremely gonzo. Think DCC modules, ASE, Adventure Time, Barbarians finding future-tech.
Modules or systems, I don't care. Thanks.
>>46115274
Demonspore : The Secret of the Shrooms
Do you guys speak in-character?
>>46117664
It goes in and out, depending on the importance of the discussion. It can either be "I ask the barkeep for a drink and a room" describing the general gist of the conversation or "I clearly my throat and ask 'Where are the children? what have you done with them?'" etc.
>>46115100
Bump for this
>>46091112
Also, let it do the thing owls do with their necks. Have it stand up on it's hind legs, and it's head whips and pivots to glare at you.
Running a game using BFRPG. Should I hack in rules for 20+ play and Immortality?
>>46121055
That's a really neat map. It's got a great use of elevation and isometric perspective. Got any more of those?
Also, I'd recommend that you leave those hacks until you actually need them. No use in making rules for level 21 if your players never reach 18. Also, of course, you should probably make sure that your players are actually interested in such high-level play before you do anything.
>>46121264
>>46121264
Another
>>46121264
And last one for now
>>46079891
>I'm wondering what kind of hooks get the players excited to explore the dungeon
I would just ask the players directly and develop/modify your dungeon based on what gets them fired up. Some people love the old shoot-it-and-loot-it, some like the sense of accomplishment of overpowering or outsmarting monsters, some like the thrill of surviving a seemingly impossible situation, and some just like exploring and making strategic use of the dungeon's layout to block of threats and find shortcuts.
>>46110509
You're obviously allergic to Cheetos dust.
