Words
>>46052999
What level are they right now?
>>46052999
Why was this necessary? Literally nothing happens. Nothing's getting done. It doesn't advance the plot in any way, and the joke is pretty lame. Why did this need to be a full page instead of a panel or two?
>>46053141
Because Burlew's life force is sustained by his word count.
>>46053141
The best part is that the jokes aren't even very D&Dish.
I mean, come on, that page was begging for a discussion of how much those hirelings should actually earn based on their level and the duration of the job.
If the page had done that then it would have some redeeming qualities in the sense of "oh, ha ha, yes game mechanics are funny."
>>46052999
More words? In sequence? And more after that?
Now we're communicatin'.
>>46052999
i can't even be bothered editing these anymore, nothing's happening
>>46053127
The main characters? Around 15-16 right now.
>>46052999
I bet this is just a set up to a joke in like 50 pages that won't even be funny
Keep the first four text boxes(TB).
Delete the 5th, 6th, 8th, 12th, 13th, 15th text boxes.
Move Bandana's TB from panel two to panel one.
Move Andi's TB from panel three to panel one as a response to Bandana's.
Move Roy and Haley's TB's from panel three to panel one as responses to Andi's.
Delete Panels two and three.
Maybe add in a group text box 'Yeah!' from the crew in response to TB 14 (which should be moved to the left to make room).
Delete Panel 5 and all it's text.
Move all text boxes from panel 6 to panel 4. Keeping speakers the same.
Delete Panel 6.
Panel 7 is optional and doesn't advance the plot, but personally I'd keep it. It stresses the pure mercenary attitude of the crew and efficiently develops Andi's character as somewhat 'idealistically piratey' in comparison to her more mercurial comrades.
Cut/Paste Bandana and her text box from Panel 8 to Panel 7(if included) as a response to Andi.
Delete Panel 8.
Keep Panels 9 and 10 for your (weak) punchline.
If you keep Panel 10, replace the background elementals with elementals we've seen before in the story. Also replace the generic blue-haired elf with someone we've seen before. Like that wizard with the toad-familiar that served V his/her divorce summons, or one of the dead paladins from the Sapphire guard.
There, everything this comic needed to say (and all of the minor punchlines in it) have now been condensed to two panels. Three if you include the crew-character-development (which you should). Five if you include the 'you monster' punchline (meh).
>Why should WE help prevent the world from being destroyed? What's in it for us!?
Come on.
>>46052999
As much as I usually defend the wordcount, this strip was utterly pointless.
Was it really necessary to dedicate an entire page to take a swipe at pants on head retarded neutral players?
>>46052999
I'm not sure what annoys me more, this whole strip or Haley not making a comment at all about them, either in defense of them wanting to get paid or not wanting to give up money.
>>46053141
I agree, absolutely awful page even by OOTS standards.
>>46055611
Shit, man, you're surprised that these people suck NOW, a thousand strips later?
Do you need a reminder on how Azure City had its head so far up its ass that the nobility kept making assassination attempts on their leaders before, during, and fucking AFTER they were being beseiged, invaded, and displaced by Xykon and Redcloak's army?
And those were the *good* guys. Compared to them, the idiocy these fuckers go through in Neutral is run-of-the-mill.
>Hurby-durr I'm the demigod of the dwarves but I gotta honor this oath to listen to some council before I can make a decision not to condemn literally every living thing I represent to immediate death and eternal damnation
Just fucking take initiative, you dumb shit, you can ask forgiveness from the council for not letting the decision over their doom get prolonged indefinitely later.
The fact that Xykon and Redcloak have gone on this long completely unopposed by almost any other people on the continent besides the main group should be testament to how retarded the Eastern Continent-dwellers' populace is. These are homeowners concerned about how the wrong flowers in the garden and thin, poorly-soundproofed walls are going to affect their property value, WHILE THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE.
>>46056247
"And that is why evil will always win, because good is dumb"
>>46052999
I am generally supportive of words words words and make fun of people when they bitch, but it is a bit annoying that we had this brief 4-5 comic stretch that ran blissfully, propelling the story along and raising dramatic tension, and then it gets shut down in the doledrums. And yes, autists have made convincing argument about hurf durf durf its all going to have meaning Rich is a master of lottery continuity hurg durf
But there is no defending this strip. Literally nothing happens. This is something phoned in to pad page count for the books
It's setting up Redscarf to betray the team somehow, that's all.
>>46055682
I mean, she's probably gotten enough character development (and has enough sense) to try to get this solved as quickly as feasible because of the time crunch.
>>46056318
>"And that is why evil will always win, because good is dumb"
Evil spends its share of the time holding the idiot ball too.
More like
>"And that is why the plot goes the way the author wants, because everyone is dumb exactly when he wants them to be"
Jeebus fucking cripes you guys, it would be bad world building to just ignore how these mercs are basically doing a bunch of pro bono work when other mercs might be more willing to do that freeing them up to go back to making money. It would be bad pacing to suddenly leap back into intense action/dialogue before having enough of a breather since the last page with that sort of thing. It would be bad story telling to have that second in command girl turn on the captain at the most inopportune time (because mark my fucking words it will happen) without building up ample reason as to why she would do that. Kindly fuck off with shit complaints.
And now I'm wasting time on nonsensical Thogs.
With d jokes, no less.
>>46057801
Fucking cripes man this is fantastic
>saving the world
>fuck you
I wonder how upset Rich would get if people posted Thog edits on his forums.
>>46057874
I don't know, 'I don't have time for any reading'' was so perfect I almost wonder if he didn't deliberately write that panel in a way that would invite thogging.
>>46057801
>ree! ree! Am I the only one that reees!
Sounds like what would happen if pepe was in a musical.
>>46057801
There should be a trove of all thogs as oots op, just saying
>>46052999
Words abridged
>>46057801
>it's just another oots on tg
https://youtu.be/j1l7N-WLa3Q?t=1m
> all this complaining
Do people not like the little side stories? When I run games my players love scenarios like this. They'll ask for mini-sessions over the most trivial shit, like chatting up a barmaid or hunting for just the right hat. It adds character to the world and the NPCs, in addition to some relief from the main plot onto more mundane issues.
>>46058696
Most of the time Rich managed to weave side things into the plot, or at least get a decent joke out of it.
Not only did this do neither, it also ground everything to a halt and, adding insult to injury, could have been done in 2-3 panels with the same effect.
>>46058791
>saying it isn't weaving shit in before seeing this arc end
>saying it ground things to a halt while it is literally doing the opposite
>>46058900
see
>>46056384
After the tension we just got, having an entire strip dedicated to neutrals being retarded is an utter letdown.
We went from racing to stop the bad guys directly to REEEEE WHERE'S MY MONEY, which has now been shot down.
I frankly don't care if it sets up bandanna backstabbing the party for another fucking retarded reason, because all this could have been set up in about 3 panels with the exact same effect
>>46058900
>literally the opposite of grinding things to a halt
Nigga. Not grinding things to a halt would be getting on the airship and arriving at the destination off-panel. This is adding contrivances about characters nobody gives a shit about, for the sake of a joke nobody is laughing at.
>>46058791
Well sure, it could have been done in one panel.
> pirate captain asks for money to taxi the party around
> "ok"
But my point is that many people enjoy these little derailments, and not everything has to be a joke. OoTS does a lot of jokes, but it's also telling a story. The dramatic main story points lose their punch if everything involves them. People complain when stories drag a bit in slow parts, but they're required for proper contrast of the whole.
>>46059077
Then it should focus on people that actually matter, not literally whos that nobody cares about.
Why not have a strip about the janitors at the temple wanting hazard pay?
Why not have a strip about Tarquin's guard and their daily life and routine?
Wait, we did have that last one. I guess I didn't think to bring it up as a negative because rich briefly tied it in with Haley trying to break her dad out, not just randomly having a scene where they form a union and strike for a single page.
>>46059163
>not literally whos that nobody cares about
That YOU might not care about, maybe. The pirates have been around for a number of strips now. Andi has been in a few strips. The captain in several. The airship itself in many. The relationship between the party and the pirates is relevant to the plot since the teleport orb is gone. This strip pointed out that the "goodwill credit" the captain left behind has essentially expired.
No, it wasn't required. It could have boiled down to a single panel of "airship moving" and then the party is on a mountain somewhere. Paying them could have boiled down to Haley complaining for one panel about being out 20k gold. But as a matter of pacing it was appropriate, given how many major events just got machine-gunned at the reader. There's probably a literary term for such pauses but I can't think of it.
>>46059007
>>46059018
You're setting arbitrary points of where "moving things along" would be. If we take this to the logical extreme then why isn't the next comic them standing over a defeated Xykon with the world saved? It's because the stuff in between matters, and what the author chooses to show us is indicative of what he feels will be relevant to the plot.
>>46059376
If we take this to the logical extreme, we fall headfirst into the false dichotomy and slippery slope fallacies
>>46059376
There is a time and a place for plot divergences and intermissions. This is not one of them.
You can't go from "We have to stop the end of the world from happening RIGHT NOW" to a stop gap, that's not how story telling works. Focusing on arbitrary shit like faceless nobodies needing money just dilutes the central conflict, and undermines the urgency of the situation. He's essentially neutered the pacing of his own story.
>>46059355
I believe the term you might be looking for is falling action.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dramatic_structure
>>46059355
Or we could have had an intermediary strip to transition between the tension and cessation of conflict, one which gives the crew more of a face and tells the reader that the threat is there, but they can't do anything while they're in transit.
This would make us actually care about the crew before we get to hear their bitching, make the "Sure, the world's going to die, but what about the money which is probably going to be useless soon?" bomb sound a bit less retarded, but most importantly not crash the pacing with no survivors.
Intellectually, we know there's not much they can do immediately, so we shouldn't expect the pace to continue at the rate it was going, but you can't just jump from desperate scenario to this shit in one strip
>>46059466
It is literally how story telling works as this anon points out
>>46059507
>>46059454
It's not slippery slope so much as it is ad absurdum.
>>46059585
I'm not arguing that you don't need to vary the pace, I'm arguing that this pacing is just flat-out shit.
It's fluctuating so much that the stakes just aren't there anymore. How can he expect me to give a shit about anything that happens in this story if anything interesting gets 20 panels of nothing, 2 or panels of payoff, then 50 panels of more nothing?
>>46059466
Well, I'd argue the opposite. It's absolutely required. Not everything can be about the end of the world. It desensitizes the reader to the points of drama and tension. You can only stay on a roller coaster for so long before the experience becomes mundane. A reader needs those slower moments to unwind and gain a proper perspective of the next escalation.
>>46058517
I tried to cut some stuff out
>>46059688
Your sense of "payoff" might be skewed.
Consider a new reader going through the archives. In recent events, Roy has dueled his vampired ex-friend involving a number of magics and turnarounds, had his starmetal sword's potential realized, realized a major threat to the dwarven nations/world, belkar was thrown off a mountain after losing a duel to durkula, and they had their shortcut bauble to the endgame stolen. It took a long time for the comic to explain all this in real time, but in narrative terms it was all very recent.
>>46059831
There may be some truth to that, but I stand by my statement.
The entire sequence of events that you described felt as drawn-out as possible, and lost some of its punch as a result. It always seems like he puts his focus in the wrong places.
>>46059825
perfection approaches
>>46060012
>>46060012
Losing a lot of the meaning there, though.
>>46058696
It's not a story though. It's barely a footnote in the plot. The entire page is dedicated to
>yo pay us faggot
>okay
>lame joke
I mean, there's fucking nothing here. Roy doesn't argue with them, Haley doesn't pipe up about it, nothing. You can skip this whole page and not miss a goddamn thing. And if you can skip it without consequence, why is it there in the first place?
>>46060217
It establishes that a problem came up, was settled quickly, calmly, and rationally. I could easily see this being plot relevant later, or at least acts as a good hallmark of character development. Also I liked the gold joke.
>>46053141
I agree for once. Nobody cares about transgender pirate characters or whatever. Let's go back to the lich already.
>>46060217
>there's fucking nothing here
I think this is establishing something that will come up again later. I have a few ideas:
>After a long time flying and adventuring, OotS starts running low on cash to pay the pirates with
>Something really dangerous happens, pirates say "fuck this, you're on your own"
>Disgruntled crew-member lady does something stupid like ditching OotS in the next dungeon
>>46057801
>go fast
>20
>what
>S P E E D
>nonsense page every time
>actually god is not real
Excellent, anon.
>>46060012
>>46060114
well at least you keept the penis
>>46057801
Is there an archive of good Thog edits?
>>46059163
Cause CLEARLY that one guy who stays pissy about all this is being set up to be a thorn in the party's side in the future
I don't know why people are assuming that Xykon and Redcloak are actually getting anywhere. They're still no closer to using the Gate-change spell than they were in Durkoran's Dungeon, and that's assuming they don't have to fight their way through the monsters in Kraegor's Gate.
And even if they do, the OOTS is going to have to fight through those monsters themselves ANYWAY. They're only going to get to the final battle in the nick of time even if they went straight there.
>>46056247
>Hurby-durr I'm the demigod of the dwarves but I gotta honor this oath to listen to some council before I can make a decision not to condemn literally every living thing I represent to immediate death and eternal damnation
>>46056318
>"And that is why evil will always win, because good is dumb"
That's called Lawful, and it has nothing to do with Good or Evil.
>>46062219
Nobody though to make one until they were reminiscing (or listening to other anons wax nostalgic) after like the hundredth one, but by then no-one had an even mostly complete cache and it seemed dumb to make some kind of "best of thog" archive missing the majority (and probably best) of thog edits.
>>46067766
I dunno, that logic seems kinda silly. Sure, you may have lost older thogs, which isn't guaranteed since some anon may have saved them, but not making an archive for that reason just guarantees that future thogs are lost as well.
>>46057801
You know, usually I hate thog edits, but this one is fucking golden.
>>46062219
Have my favourite.
>>46059831
This more or less. The comic is structured with books in mind. You're intended to read each arc as one big chunk, not one page every one to two weeks. Most of the problems with pacing go away when you read the comic this way.
He releases them online as a favor to his fans and because the comic originated online, but he's said several times that they're intended to be read as a book.
>>46057801
this is a fantastic thog edit.
>>46068197
Such is the way of all webcomics.
You die a talentless fuck, or you survive long enough to become a sellout asshole.
>>46057801
I don't know if it's my meds, but I legit laughed until I cried. Good fucking job.
>>46071389
masterful
>>46057801
>ree! ree! Am I the only one that reees?
I love it.
>>46062219
There's some here https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Thog_edits
I also save the ones that I like, but I only joined you after Trump 2016.
>>46071389
Good one.
>>46074404
heh
>>46059466
This.
This whole scene would be like if Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas stopped in a village to haggle over some trail mix while pursuing the orcs who abducted Merry and Pippin.
I also really hate the "lol we're Neutrals pay us now we don't care if the world is ending" plot conflict. Anyone in their position would decide they're in too deep to turn back now, or just cut and run. They wouldn't try to extort more money out of the whole thing.
I know it's /v/ shit, but I think Varric in Dragon Age had a great line to this effect:
>I like to think I'm as selfish and irresponsible as the next guy, but this? Thousands of people died on that mountain. I was almost one of them. And now there's a hole in the sky. Even I can't walk away and just leave that to sort itself out.
>>46075336
>>46075336
Don't forget, they worked for Julio Scoundrel, so they're fully aware of the narrative and their place in it. They're expecting good to win regardless.
