>Vulkan returns to lead an attack on the Ork home world
>>46051462
Yeah, but that's probably Vulkan Hes'tan, not actually Vulkan. Unless Vulkan was like "YO MAH NIGGAS WHAT UP HOMIES"
Then "GOTTA BOUNCE NOW PEACE OUT"
>>46051545
It's the actual Vulkan. This takes place in M32 and the whole previous book is about finding Vulkan
>>46051462
Interesting idea, I wonder if this will be how they kill off Vulkan.
>>46055451
>Vulkan sacrifices himself to save Mankind from being rekt by intelligent orks
There you go.
>>46051462
PDFS
DFS
FS
S
WHERE
HERE
ERE
RE
E
>>46055451
they kill him off in every book
anyways we already know the invasion fails
>>46051462
I totally misread htat as "the BEACH must die", like it was some wacky beach musical version of 40k where Vulkan is mostly focused on catching the gnarliest of waves.
>>46055571
>Not "The BITCH must die"
I bet you like dat ass.
>>46055451
I was just thinking that it might be a way to give Orks a Primarch kill. Since Vulkan's Perpetualness makes him as viable a target as any Greater Daemon/Daemon Prince/Avatar/The Swarmlord etc.
>>46055479
>implyin' orkses isn't 'telligent
>>46051462
..... But Orks don't have a homeworld. They're a diaspora. Even if you found the first world upon which the Old Ones seeded fungal spores which would grow into orks, it would have no psychological, logistic, political, or military effect on any orks anywhere else.
>>46056110
>black library
>sense
>>46056110
Yeah seriously, this whole ork home world thing is pretty ridiculous.
Firstly, the old ones creating orks on a realspace planet when they had access to the webway and the warp seems pretty foolish, especially as planets were swapped daily during the war in heaven. Then there's the question of why only one planet? (Kr)orks were meant to be the big scary weapon that would defeat the necrons and there was only one planets worth of old ones working on them? No wonder they lost!
Secondly orks giving a shit about where they came from let alone even knowing. Why? It goes against the fluff that's been in just about every codex where things like the brainboyz were given explanations, then a little paragraph of an ork saying something like "that's naff, orkses have always existed for as long as I can remember!" or "orks being led by snotlings lmao". It's clear that orks don't consider their past at all and live very much in the moment.
>>46056429
IIRC the Orks were madeas a last, dying push from the Old Ones, when they were already buttfucked pretty badly, and never got to finish it.
Now as to why that would make it an instant win, I don't know, maybe some weird psychic reaction when Vulkan decides to go supernova on the homeworld?
>>46056499
It still makes no sense. If he was making a move to hunt down a powerful warboss, or kill the illusive Orkimedes, that would make sense. But going after an 'ork homeworld'? It'll be Apocalypse Now all over again. Wandering around talking and maybe shooting some things for three hours and then ending with no resolution or explanation. That's not a good story, it's a really shitty monologue.
>>46056429
>(Kr)orks were meant to be the big scary weapon that would defeat the necrons
No, they were one of several races thrown out in desperation to hold the line when the Old Ones' strongholds and webway were being overrun by the warp (which since 5th edition is no longer even what defeated the Old Ones, or at least not solely).
>The orc homeworld is fought for, the beast himself shows up, etc etc, defeated
>Years of celebration ensure, as the Imperium recoups its losses
>They make the world a grand site, but also begin to eradicate mentions of the high lords horrible failure
>The planet, before it is resettled, is given a rather simple name in memory of the beast's waaagh
>Armageddon
>>46056594Can an artificial species have a home-world?
>>46056594
That'd actually be pretty dope.
>>46056643
Well, that's what they used to say.
>Imperial scholars have speculated that on the Ork world of origin (wherever that might have been), there existed an ancient race that was indirectly responsible for the spread of Orkish society.
>>46056499
They were making all sorts but orks were the one race that they were focusing on thanks to the way they could spread like a virus and act as a roadblock against the necrontyr.
>>46056583
Yeah, that's how they ended up being used, but we all know that orks were unfinished and it was a desperation move.
>>46056735
>The Ork expansion into space from their home world is perhaps the greatest, most significant accident in Ork history.
>>46056735
>Juicy squigs
Why can't we have these gems in other factions?
>>46056727
I hate the storyline more than I can say, but this would actually redeem it in my eyes.
>>46056571
>Wandering around talking and maybe shooting some things for three hours and then ending with no resolution or explanation
I'm sure you'll really enjoy this set of novels then
You are WEEEAAAK, Vulkan.
>>46056594
bretty gud
>>46056814
GO away brain ghost ferrus
you are NOT FRIEND
>>46055760
Vulkan the Jobber Primarch
>>46056769
i've got this stupid fucking image of a nob with lil french mustache n beret sipping fungus wine n nibbling on a juicy squig. fuck sake.
>>46055571
10/10 would read.
>>46055649
Would also read.
>>46056594
This is probably better than what is actually going to happen, please write for bl, anon
>>46058487
I'd love to anon, but they probably wouldn't hire a guy with a poli sci degree and no writing experience past D&D.
>>46056251
Eat a dick. The Ork homeworld was mentioned iun the "Lost Race" fluff piece in the Ork 2nd codex..
>>46056783
I'm in it just to see how badly the Imperium fucks itself in the foot before Vangorich loses it and kills the High Lords.
Honestly, it stands to reason that this could have a higher body count than the Heresy but be less known because the Beast might have destroyed everything, but Horus backstabbed Dad-God and ruined the possibility of a golden age.
>HORUS, YOU ARE TO BECOME WARMASTER AND LEAD MY ARMIES, FOR I RETURN TO TERRA
Father... I accept of course but why do you leave us?
>I CANNOT SAY
Then Heresy
>HORUS, YOU ARE TO BECOME WARMASTER AND LEAD MY ARMIES, FOR I RETURN TO TERRA
Father... I accept of course but why do you leave us?
>I'M WORKING ADAPTING THE ELDAR WEBWAY FOR HUMANS, WE CAN TRAVERSE THE GALAXY IN SECONDS, REPLACING DANGEROUS AND UNPREDICTABLE WARP TRAVEL
That's brilliant Father, I won't let you down
No Heresy
Why couldn't The Emperor have explained to his Son's in one or two sentences he was modifying the webway for humans?
>>46059912
Because divination psychic power.
He knew he'd be betrayed.
>>46059912
Because pic related
>>46060083
He should've put his sons in stasis while he finished the most delicate part of his magnum opus, let the Imperial Army guard the newly gained territories for a while, then resumed the Crusade when he was finished with the human webway. Big ol' dummy.
>>46059912
The Horus Heresy novels were a mistake. They are pure, unadultered SHIT.
S H I T
H
I
T
When will /tg/ finally realize that and stop asking the Emperor is retarded in the HH books, when the answer is always:
>Because the series is SHIT
>>46056594
I actually looked up Armageddon to see the planet's early history and the earliest recorded is the First War of Armageddon in 444.M41.
Your theory could actually be right as their is 8000-9000 years time difference for all this to happen and Imperial Hives to be set up. The Armageddon Ork Hunters come from here and they use Ork tactics as well and look like Orks by painting themselves green.
Maybe Ghazghkull was guided there by Gork and Mork as he is known as a 'prophet' and the space hulk he was on found it's way to Armageddon.
>>46061666
That wasn't even from the novels though.
>>46061793
Plus there's the lines about how all orks know there's always a fight to be had about Armageddon, and how it's like an orky valhalla.
This could work.
>>46061915
To be honest, the Primarchs seem irritating here. Let your father complete his great tasks and the Primarchs should complete the Great Crusade.
Everything would have worked out well if they had continued the Great Crusade.
>>46051462
>Ork home world
Where are they from!?
Is the planet a giant Ork?
>>46062125
Wait, I found more
>"In a conversation with Chapter Master Gabriel Seth of the Flesh Tearers, Inquisitor Nerosa reveals the possible presence of a Traitor Titan Legion Imperator Titan buried under the surface as the reason for the Orks continued assault of the planet. She believed that the Khornate corruption of such a powerful warmachine had drawn, subconsciously, the Orks to Armageddon over and over again. Seth argues that traitor Titans haven't walked on Armageddon in thousands and thousands of years, not since Armageddon was re-colonized. Chances are that the Inquisitor muddy up the facts of the First War so that no one was aware of how recently it had been. However, both Seth and Nerosa are aware that not only did a recolonization occur but a complete terraforming of the geography occurred. Nerosa believed that while the Mechanicus were reworking the geography of the world, they missed such a terrible threat and simply buried it. No reference is ever made to Titans being part of Angron's army and although the Imperator in question turned out to be of the Legion Annihlator, both Seth and Nerosa are fully aware that at one point thousands of years ago, Traitor Titans fought on Armageddon. It is possible that the First War of Armageddon was not the first time Chaos had invaded, and that other Inquisitorial cover ups have occurred. "
The upcoming novels have an alliance between Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines I believe. Maybe Chaos invaded but as we know now, it wasn't the Imperium they were fighting; it was Orks. The Inquisition has covered it up due to the High Lords being morons and the fact that such a shameful act occurred between Loyalists and Traitors working together.
Screencap or save this, I think we're on to something here.
>>46058591
You're probably overqualified, then.
>>46062186
i hope its a giant rok, and that a weird boy tries to use it as an ork deathstar (by crashing it into other planets, obviously).
>>46062147
>To be honest, the Primarchs seem irritating here.
Horus thought so too.
>dat Ahriman tho
>>46062396
Such a shame, jealousy, envy and just plain power-lusting led to the Primarchs ruining everything the Emperor had planned for humanity. Amazed we have had no scenes of the Emperor getting really angry over the Horus Heresy. The Emperor could have been a little more open though.
Feel sorry for the Thousand Sons to be honest, they got shit on for no reason which made them turn bad. Magnus was only trying to help and he had no other options.
Hopefully Revuel Arvida and other surviving Thousand Sons become the Blood Ravens that we see in the present and carry on the (secret) legacy of the Thousand Sons.
>>46056429
>>46056110
Have you even read the series?
In this context, the "Homeworld" means the home base of the Beast WAAAGH that all these stupid attack moons are popping out from.
>>46062555
>Amazed we have had no scenes of the Emperor getting really angry over the Horus Heresy
http://maximalismmusic.com/track/lament-exe
The Emperor was lamenting over the fact that the Horus Heresy was happening.
>>46063168
This.
You're a God in all but name, you know that you're humanity's best leader that ever is and ever will be, it's a fucking fact, you have plenty of ideas, you make them happen, mankind has ever been so great, how can ANYTHING stand in your way? How can a member of the species that you're helping rebel against you? Your closest general? Empy just doesn't compute.
The traitors were litteraly banging on Eternity's gate and he still couldn't believe it.
>>46063608
It wasn't just that. It was his sons and their children becoming slaves to darkness. He thought he could save Horus even after he saw Sang's corpse.
Those Ciaphas Cain books any gd, anons?
>>46064324
Yeah, but bear in mind that they are a very singular take on the 40k universe.
Where standard books are grimdark and stuff, the Ciaphas Cain are almost a parody. Still a very enjoyable read though.
>>46060620
Great explanation.
>>46060620
+1
One small quibble though. The only proof we have that he made a deal with the Warp to create the Primarchs is the word of a daemon. And daemons are lying shits.
>>46062266
Interesting...
And in M32, the Traitor Legions (at least not all of them) wouldn't necessarily have fallen to complete chaos corruption that has made them the force of degenerates they are in setting's present.
>>46063608
>>46064099
I find it hilarious that the switch that turned WH40k from nobledark to grimdark is that Emps couldn't comprehend the possibility that his 'perfect' plan could have hitched.
The classic flaw of hubris- and I'd say he should have seen it coming, but that introduces so many levels of irony I don't even know where to start.
It's actually brilliant writing, if death of the author is in effect.
>>46066893
>The classic flaw of hubris
It wasn't hubris. He was too busy, Anon. He knew this might come. He had too much faith in his children.
>>46066920
How is it not?
>My Empire will be a perfect autocracy, because it's designed and led by me, and I'm always right!
>My Primarchs will be mini-mes, it'll be great, because I'm always right, and thus they'll be perfect!
>Whoops, guess Horus decided to turn traitor. I'll convince him he's doing the wrong thing, and he'll listen to me, because I'm always right!
Sounds to me like he was just convinced of his own inerrability, but you're probably right.
>>46056110
>maybe if you found the ork homeworld, you could find some sort of natural predator that eats the spores before they can grow into orks, and then breed those and put them on every planet.
And then be dealing with those for the rest of eternity.
>>46061915
is the short haired guy Fulgrim?
>>46066893
>>46067077
>‘Let us talk of Nurth, my lord,’ said Pech, ‘and of how we finish this war.’
>Namatjira smiled. ‘This compliance,’ he corrected.
>‘It is a war, sir,’ Pech replied, ‘as I’m sure the stalwart soldiers of the Imperial Army would attest. Let us not dress it up in political terms. Let us not skip over their sacrifices.’
>Major General Dev and Lord Wilde of the Torrent coughed to suggest their gratitude at Pech’s acknowledgement of their efforts. Some of their huscarls and high officers clacked their swords against their shields in approval.
>Namatjira snapped up a hand quickly for silence.
>‘Of course it’s a war, sir,’ the Lord Commander said, acid in his tone. ‘Men die. My men die. But this is still an Action of Compliance, or are you questioning the Emperor’s design?’
>Pech shook his head. ‘No, lord. I appreciate that the Emperor upholds a teleological scheme for the future of man, and I will endeavour to uphold it.’
>‘He chases a utopian ideal,’ Herzog put in.
>‘He wishes to unify and perfect humanity through the intense application of martial violence,’ said Pech.
>‘We have no quarrel with that approach,’ said Herzog. ‘It is the only proven way man’s destiny has ever been advanced.’
>‘Even if utopian goals are ultimately counterintuitive to species survival,’ Pech added quickly.
>‘Any political ambition that is inherently impossible to achieve is ultimately corrupting,’ said Herzog.
>‘You cannot engender, or force to be engendered, a state of perfection,’ said Pech. ‘That line of action leads only to disaster, because perfection is an absolute that cannot be attained by an imperfect species.’
>>46067975
>‘Utopia is a dangerous myth,’ said Herzog, ‘and only a fool would chase it.’
>‘It is better to manage and maintain the flaws of man on an ongoing basis,’ said Pech.
>‘We say this only to recognise the blood debt of the Imperial Army, that suffers and dies, resolutely, in the pursuit of that goal,’ said Herzog.
>There was a long silence. Just as the blades began to batter the shields again, Alpharius said, ‘I encourage my men to explore the philosophy of bloodshed, lord. I like them to understand the intellectual structure that informs their killing. The Emperor, my love and my life, seeks to set mankind in place as the uppermost species of the galaxy. I will not dispute that ambition, neither will my captains. We simply recognise the procrustean methods with which he enforces that dream. A utopian ideal is a fine thing to chase, and to measure one’s achievements against. But it cannot, ultimately, be achieved.’
>‘Are you suggesting the Emperor’s design is... wrong?’ Namatjira asked.
>‘Not in the slightest,’ replied Alpharius.
>>46056594
I was worried for a moment that the Beast would be the world itself
>>46067768
Yeah, he was a lot less of a pretty-boy before the novels.
>>46059912
Because that is not, nor has it ever been, what The Emperor was working on.
The Emperor was working on the Third Generation.
See, when he conquered Terra, he rallied the Thunder Warriors to do so, and they followed him. When they became impractical, he wiped them out and created the Space Marines, including the Primarchs. Much more efficient. When he went back to Terra, it was to create a REPLACEMENT for the Astartes process which would be easier to apply, more efficient, and more effective. Horus knew that he and his legions/brothers were about to be rendered obsolete and discarded, so he made his power play.
>>46067768
>>46068067
Fulgrim's modern appearance - that of the long-white-haired girlyman, with his rather distinctive armour as well - was actually established at this time, or at least in the same period (his Blanche concept had his hair hidden beneath a rather ridiculous Pickelhaube, but the armour was largely the same as pic related, albeit much more exaggerated because Blanche). I assume that guy's just a random Emperor's Children Marine, since he doesn't seem to be anyone notable or recognisable.
>>46067554
Simple solution there - you make sure they're so butt-ugly, that nobody will want to buy them for use as a mini! Orks go away, nobody buys their replacement, Imperium is saved!
>>46061666
Okay, what was true about the Heresy pre-books?
>>46056735
>Imperial scholars
Come on man we all know Imperial scholars couldn't figure out a wet sock. What the fuck would they know.
>>46058871
Because Geedubs fucking cares what was established in 2nd ed.
>>46066488
Everyone is a lying shit in the 40k universe. The only media in existence is military propaganda and religious propaganda.
>>46068980
They do. More than you.
I mean fuck. If you cared about the fluff you wouldn't went "ORK HOMEWORLD? FUCKING BL REEEE".
>>46066488
>Warp to create the Primarchs is the word of a daemon. And daemons are lying shits.
Emperorfags a re confirmed to be liars.
Alivia Sureka, an immortal companion of the Emperor, confirms that the Emperor made a deal with the Chaos Gods.
Get rekt.
>>46069016
Also daily reminder that Alivia is best waifu.
>>46068995
Where have you been that you think Games Workshop cares about anything other than how much money they make anymore?
>>46056886
YES! YEEEEEESSSS! I DID IT! I AM BEST FORGEFATHER!
>>46069181
The sad truth. There's nothing worse than an expansive and good setting being ruined by over-explotation.
>>46051462
VULKANLIVES
>>46068219
Anon, dont ever speak out of your ass again. There is nothing in the fluff to backup what you just said.
>>46068969
The point was that the idea has been openly entertained, in print, before. Other pages casually mentioned it as well, like >>46056754 or pic related:
>This basic list includes all those concepts that are fundamental to the Orkish way of life. They are thus known to all Orks and have probably remained unchanged from the original tongues of the Ork home world.
The existence of an Ork home world, at some point in time, isn't the outrageous concept people seem to think it is. Actually revealing that world and bringing it into the spotlight is another matter, but we'll see where this goes.Here's hoping for the Armageddon ending.
>>46068704
>t-son in blue PA
>takes helmet off
>no dust, just head
>>46069931
You will notice that his armour seems having some red on it still, marking and fast and recent change of colors perhaps.
He may have been a sorcerer who recently joined arhiman's circle.
>>46069016
>>46069034
>confirms that the Emperor made a deal with the Chaos Gods.
>nothing on the text confirms any deal of sort.
Carnac, take your meds, you're seeing things again.
>>46069931
Only the weakest were turned to dust. The Stronger Sorcerers survived.
>>46070117
Only if you didn't read the novel.
The Emperor who was at the time just a perpetual steps through a gate that leads to the Court of the Chaos Gods.
What do you think the little Emperor standing before the Great Four going to do to take their power? Tickle them to submission?
Even after they elevated him to godhood, he was no match for them so he couldn't strong arm into it.
In any case, the Emperor power is from the Chaos Gods.
>>46069508
*STOMP-STOMP*
>>46070258
Then post a better text that actually confirms what you're saying
>What do you think the little Emperor standing before the Great Four going to do to take their power?
Something I don't know, that's why we can't confirm shit, but the same alivia says mortals can do things gods can't, possibilities arise from simple acts of defiance and strength of will at times.
>power it's from the chaos gods
Or it's just from the warp, which the gods selfish think it's their alone
Is every psyker in existence making deals with tzeentch? Are their powers somehow less theirs despite being for all intents and purposes shaped by them and their psyche?
>they elevated him to godhood
[citation needed]
speaking of ork worlds;
are there any worlds where the orks don't enslave the populace as the BEST outcome for them?
Any worlds where the orks just leave the peaceful people or animals alone, because they won't fight?
Any at all, in canon?
I get that orks are prone to nonsensical violence and destruction, and that they're cruel for the sake of cruelty most of the time, and such can happen at any time. But, I also have noticed more "culture" than one would expect of sapient fungus, what with them actually making industry, clothing and having some semblance of a society whatsoever. Even if it does just feed rampant and unfocused violence.
This suggests to me that worlds could exist wherein ork warbosses own worlds that at best extort the occupants for resources, but otherwise don't spoil for fights with beings that can't. Is this canon at all?
>>46070586
Orks don't leave people alone if they're pacifist, that's a misunderstanding.
Orks if not valuing a good fight, despise the lack of it, pacifists are weakling, fool and coward; need to be taught the good ways, or at least they can be used to have some fun with their sufferings, orks are often sadistic too.
>>46070579
>Then post a better text that actually confirms what you're saying
In a minute.
>Something I don't know, that's why we can't confirm shit, but the same alivia says mortals can do things gods can't, possibilities arise from simple acts of defiance and strength of will at times.
She can do what he cannot because the Emperor would die if he came close to the deities he stole his power from. You choose to ignore that bit and that makes you disingenuous.
And you do know. He bargained with them.
>Or it's just from the warp, which the gods selfish think it's their alone
The Gateway to the Gods leads to the Court of the Chaos Gods. Don't act obtuse. When Alivia guided him out, it was their power and laughter that rolled over from the Emperor.
>[citation needed]
Vengeful Spirit novel which you should read.
>>46051462
Damn it, all this is making me thing of is a shitty old horror movie by the same name.
Some rich guy traps a bunch of people he thinks might be werewolves on his estate, and it turns out that one of them actually is. It's kind of hilarious.
>>46068704
>>46067768
>>46068067
I think he is that Space Marine that is the protag of the first novel and later becomes one of the first Grey Knights. Can't remember his name, tho.
>>46070617
Posting relevant things from the novel. It's a very big novel and I am annoyed to have to pick through it to spoonfeed lazy people.
Here is the bit where Horus fights the Fire Angel. What is a Fire Angel? It's a psychic construct that the Emperor created from the spell that mind erased the secrets of Molech from the minds of Horus, Morty, and Fulgrim (The Primarchs that were with him at the time of his second visit to the planet). The psychic creature was tasked with ensuring nobody knows the secrets of the Emperor's past.
When Horus destroyed it, the Primarchs regained their memory of planet and what transpired there.
>>46070759
>The last time Alivia had climbed these particular steps, her legs were like rubber and fear sweat coated her back like a layer of frost. She’d helped him come back to the world; her arm around his waist, his across her shoulder. She’d tried to keep his thoughts – normally so impenetrable – from reaching into her, but he was too powerful, too raw and too damaged from what lay beyond the gate to keep everything inside.
>She’d seen things she wished she hadn’t. Futures she’d seen in her nightmares ever since or inked in the pages of a forgotten storybook. Abominable things that were now intruding on the waking world, invited in by those who hadn’t the faintest clue of what a terrible mistake they were making.
As she guided him outside the Realm of Chaos, Alivia noted that the Emperor has Chaos all over his mind.
>>46070617
>You choose to ignore that bit and that makes you disingenuous.
Because that bit is not stated in the text you posted?
>he bargained with them
Waiting for the text
>The Gateway to the Gods leads to the Court of the Chaos Gods. Don't act obtuse. When Alivia guided him out, it was their power and laughter that rolled over from the Emperor.
Post the citation
>read the novel
Honestly I don't care enough for doing it, if you think this disqualifies my requests on the specific citations you're free to do it and ignore what I asked for, but don't act surprised when people question your conclusions on the provided fluff when the provided fluff is lacking, vague, incomplete or not objective enough to lead logically to said conclusions.
Take your meds ;^{}
>>46070793
>Because that bit is not stated in the text you posted?
You
see
>>46069034
"She knew that he couldn't do it. After what had taken from the realm beyond, it would be suicide for him to draw so near to those whose power he'd stolen".
Either illiterate or a liar. Pick one or two.
>Waiting for the text
Coming.
>Post the citation
Also coming.
>Honestly I don't care enough for doing it, if you think this disqualifies my requests on the specific citations you're free to do it and ignore what I asked for, but don't act surprised when people question your conclusions on the provided fluff when the provided fluff is lacking, vague, incomplete or not objective enough to lead logically to said conclusions.
It does disqualify you from having the opinion. It allows you to use your ignorance of the context as a defense and forces me to do your job for you.
>>46070835
>‘What did you learn from the thing in the cave’s death?’
>Horus nodded and said, ‘I remembered why the Emperor came here, what He found and why He didn’t want anyone else to know about it. Lupercalia is where I’ll find what we need to win this long war.’
>‘So what did it show you?’ asked Aximand. ‘All in good time,’ said Horus. ‘But, first, I have a question for you, my sons. Do any of you know how life began on Old Earth?’
>No one answered, but he hadn’t expected them to; the question too far beyond their usual sphere of interaction.
>‘Sir?’ said Maloghurst. ‘What does that have to do with Molech?’
>‘Everything,’ said Horus, enjoying this rare moment to be a teacher instead of a warrior. ‘Some of Earth’s scientists believed life began as an accidental chemical reaction deep in the oceans around hydrothermal vents. A chance energy gradient that facilitated the transformation of carbon dioxide and hydrogen into simple amino acids and proto-cells. Others believed life came to Earth by exogenesis, microorganisms entombed deep in the hearts of comets travelling the void.’
>Horus walked to the edge of the lake, his warriors parting before him. He knelt and scooped a handful of water in his palm. He turned to face his sons and let it spill between his fingers.
>‘But that’s not where you and I came from,’ said Horus. ‘As it turns out, our dream didn’t begin on Earth at all.’
>>46070852
>Shock greeted the Warmaster’s pronouncement. Disbelief and confusion. Aximand felt the ground beneath him turn to shifting sand at the truth of the Warmaster’s words.
>‘Don’t you feel it, my sons?’ continued Horus. ‘Don’t you feel how special Molech is? How singular among all the worlds we have won it is?’
>Aximand found himself nodding, and saw he wasn’t the only one.
>Lupercal walked in a circle, jabbing a fist into his palm with every sentence.
>‘At the dawn of the great diaspora, the Emperor travelled here in humble guise and found the gateway to a realm of immortal gods. He offered them things only a god-in-waiting could offer, and they trusted Him. They gave Him a measure of their power, and with that power He wrought the science to unlock the mysteries of creation.’
>Horus was radiant as he spoke, as though he had already ascended to a divine plane of reality.
>Horus was radiant as he spoke, as though he had already ascended to a divine plane of reality.
>‘But the Emperor had no intention of honouring His debt to the gods. He turned on them, taking their gifts and blending them with His genecraft to give birth to demigods. The Emperor condemns the warp as unnatural, but only so no other dares wield it. The blood of the immaterial realm flows in my veins. It flows in all our veins, for as I am the Emperor’s son, you are the Sons of Horus, and the secret of our genesis was unlocked upon Molech. The gateway to that power is in Lupercalia, far beneath the mountain rock. Sealed away from the light by a jealous god who knew that someday one of His sons would seek to surpass His deeds.’
>And finally Aximand understood why they had come here, why they had expended such resources and defied all military logic to follow in the footsteps of a god.
>This would be the moment they rose to challenge the Emperor with the very weapons He had kept for Himself.
>This was to be the apotheosis of them all.
>>46070883
>and they trusted Him
Chaos gods confirmed single-digit IQ
>>46070835
>It does disqualify you from having the opinion. It allows you to use your ignorance of the context as a defense and forces me to do your job for you.
It may disqualify the specific opinion, but not the act of holding an opinion, even in lack of information, that's a thing to never disregard.
None but you forces you to do the job of filling my ignorance, I've already stated I don't care enough to fill it myself: It's you who began claiming something not supported by your post, burden of proof was on you since the beginning; it's entirely up to you to fall into the requests of a lazy ignorant to address the burden.
Don't feel forced, you're not, at least not by me.
>Either illiterate or a liar
Or a superficial reader, but I guess that can pass as an extent of illiteracy too.
Still the lack of known possibilities about the actual way the emperor could have taken such power is no confirmation of the actual lack of possibilities.
>>46070944
I am forced because each time I state the fluff, a triggered anon jumps and cries out outrage and lies. You guys are incapable of reading the fluff but feel obligated to to want to discuss despite lacking the ability to do so. When told to examine the fluff, you guys refuse because you know without your ignorance you have nothing. I think that's ironic considering you all being Imperialfags. Ignorance is your chief weapon.
>>46070895
>‘You will have your share of blood,’ said Horus.
>‘Yes,’ said the Red Angel, sniffing the air and licking its lipless face with a blackened tongue. ‘The enemy host musters before you in numbers uncounted. Millions of hearts to devour, an age of suffering to be wrought upon bones of the dead. A wasteland of corpses shall be the playthings of the letters of blood.’
>Noctua turned to Ger Gerradon and said. ‘Are all warp things so ridiculously overwrought?’
>Gerradon grinned. ‘Those that serve the lord of murder do enjoy some bloody hyperbole, certainly.’
>‘And who do you serve?’ asked Horus.
>‘You, my lord,’ said Gerradon. ‘Only you.’
>Horus doubted that, but this wasn’t the time for questions of loyalty. He required information, the kind that could only be harvested from beings not of this world.
>‘The death of my father’s sentinel in the mountain has revealed many things to me, but there are still things I want to know.’
>‘All you need know is that there are enemies whose blood has yet to be shed,’ said the Red Angel. ‘Unleash me! I will bathe in an ocean of blood as deep as the stars.’
>‘No,’ said Horus, unsheathing the claws within his talon and turning to stab them through the chest of the Red Angel. ‘I need to know quite a bit more than that, actually.’
>The Red Angel screamed, a blast of superheated air that billowed the roof of the war tent. The chains creaked and spat motes of flickering warp energy. Cracks spread over the daemon’s face, as though the flames enveloping it now had license to consume it.
>‘I will extinguish you,’ said Horus. ‘Unless you tell me what I want to know. What will I find beneath Lupercalia?’
>>46071010
>‘A gateway to the realm beyond dreams and nightmares,’ hissed the unravelling daemon, cracks spreading down its neck and over the plates of its armour. ‘A ruinous realm of madness and death for mortals, the uttermost domain of misrule wherein dwell the gods of the True Pantheon!’
>Horus pushed his claws deeper into the Red Angel’s chest.
>‘Something a little less vague would be better,’ said Horus.
>Despite its agony, the Red Angel laughed, the sound dousing the last flames in the firepit. ‘You seek clarity where none exists, Warmaster. The Empyreal Realm offers no easy definitions, no comprehension and no solidity for mortals. It is an ever-shifting maelstrom of power and vitality. What you seek I cannot give you.’
>‘You’re lying,’ said Horus. ‘Tell me how I can follow my father. Tell me of the Obsidian Way that leads to the House of Eyes, the Brass Citadel, the Eternal City and the Arbours of Entropy.’
>The Red Angel bared its teeth at Ger Gerradon in a blast of fury. The chains binding its arms creaked. The links stretched.
>‘You betray your own kind, Tormaggedon! You name what should not be named!’
>Gerradon shrugged. ‘Horus Lupercal is and always was my master, I serve him now. But even I don’t know the things you know.’
>‘The Obsidian Way is forbidden to mortals,’ said the Red Angel.
>‘Forbidden doesn’t mean impossible,’ said Horus.
>‘Just because the faithless Forethinker walked the road of bones does not mean you can follow Him,’ hissed the Red Angel. ‘You are not Him, you can never be Him. You are His bastard son, the aborted get of what He was and will one day be.’
>Horus twisted his talons deeper, feeling only a hollow space of scorched organs and ashen flesh within.
>‘You cannot end me, mortal!’ cried the daemon. ‘I am a thing of Chaos Eternal, a reaper of blood and souls. I will endure any torments you can devise.’
>>46071010
>Those that serve the lord of murder do enjoy some bloody hyperbole
>bloody hyperbole
cheeky git
>>46071032
>‘Perhaps you can, but I didn’t devise these torments,’ said Horus, nodding towards the flayed-skin book. ‘Your kind did.’
>Horus spoke words of power and the Red Angel screamed as the spreading black veins thickened and stretched. Smoke streamed from its limbs, coming not from its fires, but the dissolution of its very essence.
>‘I have your attention now?’ asked Horus, clenching a taloned fist within the Red Angel’s body. ‘I can tear your flames apart and consign every scrap of you to oblivion. Think on that when you next speak.’
>The Red Angel sagged against its chains.
>‘Speak,’ it hissed. ‘Speak and I will answer.’
>‘The Obsidian Way,’ said Horus. ‘How can it be breached?’
>‘As with all things,’ snarled the daemon. ‘In blood.’
>‘Now we’re getting somewhere,’ said Horus.
>Alivia struggled to speak, and the Warmaster knelt to hear her valediction as the life bled out of her.
>‘Even... souls ensnared by evil... maintain a small... bridgehead of good,’ she said. ‘I want... you... to remember that. At the end.’
>Horus looked puzzled for a moment, then smiled. And for a moment, Alivia forgot that he was the enemy of humanity.
>‘You shouldn’t put your faith in saints, mamzel,’ said Horus.
>Alivia didn’t reply, looking over the Warmaster’s shoulder.
>The gateway of black obsidian was bleeding.
--------------
>Horus stood from the body of the dead woman.
>He wished she hadn’t died so he could ask her how she had come to be here. But she had stood against him and tried to stop him from achieving his destiny. And that was a death sentence.
>‘Who was she?’ asked Mortarion.
>‘I don’t know, but I felt the touch of father upon her.’
>‘She met Him?’
>‘Yes,’ said Horus, ‘but a long time ago I think.’
Horus after he killed Alivia.
Her last words to Horus. What did she mean by them?
>>46070883
Now that's interesting, but strange:
How can we trust the memories of horus (an in-setting perception) when we know he was not there to see things first hand? Or were they in the warp witnessing his supposed deal with the gods?
It's unlikely the emperor told them himself, so what led them to know what happened? Can we trust in that case the source?
>>46071003
You're not forced, bold claims from unclear reasoning leads to the rising of doubts; you could ignore my and other anons' ignorance and be self aware of your knowledge if you wanted, you are choosing not to, all the burdens and liberties fall on you in truth.
I don't read the material not for defense, I'm no imperfialfag afraid of having his understanding of things shaken, I'm just perhaps an anon curious enough to ask for specific informations but too lazy and uncaring to delve them out myself from an admitted large source for the fluff of something I enjoy only sporadically and mostly superficially (general themes, aesthetics, jokes and hobby)
>Each of the four cardinal paths ended at a mountaintop fortress to rival that of the Emperor’s palace. Their walls were brass and gold, bone and earth. They glimmered in the ruddy light of the firestorm. Screams issued from each of them and booming laughter of mad gods rolled down from the peaks.
>‘They are mocking you,’ said a voice behind him.
>Horus turned, knowing what he would see.
>The Cruor Angelus was the red of a battlefield sunset, its armour no longer splintered and broken, its face no longer a charred nightmare of agony. The chains encircling its body were gone, but the light of extinguished suns still burned in its dead eyes.
>‘Why are you here?’ said Horus.
>‘I am home,’ said the Red Angel. ‘I am unbound. The cold iron Erebus hung on me has no power here, nor do the warding oaths cut into my skin. Here I am the sum of all horror, the thirster after blood and the devourer of souls.’
>Horus ignored its grandstanding. ‘So why are they mocking me?’
>‘You are a mortal in a realm of gods. You are an insect to the Pantheon. Insignificant and unworthy of notice, a fragment of dust in the cosmic wind.’
>Horus sighed. ‘Noctua was right, all you warp things are ridiculously overwrought.’
>Razored bone talons ripped from its gauntlets. Curling horns tore from its brow. ‘You are in my realm, where you will see only what we wish you to see. I can snuff you out like a candle flame, Warmaster.’
>‘If you’re trying to intimidate me, you’re doing a poor job of it,’ said Horus, taking a step towards the daemon. ‘Let me tell you what I know. You exist in both realms, but if I destroy your body, your time in my world is over.’
>The Angel laughed and stepped to meet his advance.
>‘Daemons never die,’ it said.
>>46071179
>‘No, but they do get incredibly tiresome,’ said Horus, reaching up to wrap his hand around the Red Angel’s throat. He lifted it from the ground and squeezed. It spat black ichor and the fire in its eyes blazed.
>‘Release me!’ it roared, clawing at his arms. Blood welled from the cuts and splashed the mirror-black flagstones. Black veins of disintegrating blood vessels spread down Horus’s arm at the daemon’s touch. He felt the internal mechanisms of his body decaying, but only crushed the daemon’s neck harder.
>‘You will die for this!’ spat the daemon.
>‘One day perhaps,’ said Horus. ‘But not today. You weren’t sent here to kill me.’
>Horus nodded to the vast citadels in the mountains. ‘You’re here to guide me. Your masters need me, so take me to their fortresses, speak my name and tell them the galaxy’s new master would treat with them.’
>Horus dropped the Red Angel and for a moment he thought it might fly at him in a rage. Booming thunder rolled down from the mountains, bellows of anger, squeals of delight and more sibilant whispers. A million voices swept the nightmarish landscape, and the Red Angel’s claws retreated into its gauntlet.
>‘Very well, I will take you to the Ruinous Powers,’ it said with a hiss of venom that curdled the air. ‘The Obsidian Way is the eternal road. It is perilous for flesh and soul. It is not for mortals to walk, for its dangers are–’
>‘Shut up,’ said Horus. ‘Just shut the hell up.’
>>46062555
>they got shit on for no reason
they got reprimanded for using forbidden lore, yet continued to use it. Remember that when Magnus sent his sorcerous message to the Emperor naming Horus a traitor, the heresy hadn't even happened yet.
So not only was he ignoring a direct warning from the Emperor, he was also calling his most trusted Primarch a traitor. Like, what the fuck kind of response did you expect, Magnus.
>>46071207
Guess whose voice echoed psychically from the Gateway to the Gods when Horus entered it.
>Horus is weak. Horus is a fool.
>The words struck him like a blow. They were without source, yet Aximand knew they had issued from beyond the black gate. Delivered straight to the heart of his skull like an executioner’s dagger.
>The many hurts he had suffered to win Molech had healed years ago it seemed. It was hard to be sure. His sons told him he’d only been gone moments, how could he tell them different?
>Molech was a far distant memory to Horus now. He’d fought wars, slain monsters and defied gods in those moments. He’d wrested the power of those same gods at the heads of vast armies of daemons. He’d fought in battles that would rage unchecked for all eternity.
>He’d won a thousand kingdoms within the empyrean, billions of vassals to do with as he pleased, but he’d refused it. Every pleasure and prize was his for the taking, but he’d denied them all. He’d taken the power his father had taken, but he’d done so without deception.
>He’d taken it by force of arms and by virtue of his self-belief.
>There was no bargain made, no promise to honour.
>The power was his and his alone.
>Finally, after everything, Horus was a god.
>>46071259
And yet he still dies like a bitch.
>>46071234
>the heresy hadn't even happened yet
Horus was already a traitor at that point
>>46071266
this
>>46071266
Will he? In the HH series version?
Will see in a decade.
Death is the only escape from BL and Carnac.
