I've heard Savage Worlds get recommended almost as much as GURPS around here, but I've never heard much about it.
>Just go play Savage Worlds.
Why? Why is it good? How does it work? What are some of its flaws, and how should you work around them?
I'd really like to get into it, but I don't want to just jump in blind.
>>46040327
Pros
>fun, pulpy
>has a nice system imo, using levels of dice (as in "i have a d8 in this" rather than "i have +4")
>it's an easy system
Cons
>Exploding dice can be fun, but it can fuck shit up. Hard.
I don't know if I'd call it """good""", but I would call it fun every day of the week
The company offers a free "trial version" pdf so you can test the mechanics yourself.
>>46040788
I'll call it good, and I think you missed the major pro of the system which is that it handles big grid-based or tape-measure-based fights with lots of minis on the table in a fast, efficient and modestly tacticool way.
For anything that doesn't involve lots of combat action it's pretty shit, but I would rather do D&D, Shadowrun or Only War in Savage Worlds than use their proprietary systems.
>>46040327
>What are some of its flaws, and how should you work around them?
As mentioned, pretty bare bones outside of combat. The skill list is pretty stupid imo, you'll want to reexamine it to match your chosen genre anyway. Every character has obligatory flaws which mix and match real gameplay disadvantages with toothless roleplaying hooks - pretty dumb design imo but nothing that ruins the game.
One pitfall to watch out for is a quirk in the math - because of exploding dice taking a skill at D6 is not actually an upgrade over the initial D4. Always take a D4 and a D8 over two traits at D6.
>>46040327
You know how Gurps has hundreds of books for every possible situation? Savage Worlds has that all in one pamphlet sized book. Of course because of that, it's incredibly generic and simplified. Most of the settings can be summed up as "60's hanna barbara pulp cartoons" Very Johnny Quest, very Scooby Doo" kind of vibe.
>>46041603
>Every character has obligatory flaws which mix and match real gameplay disadvantages with toothless roleplaying hooks - pretty dumb design imo but nothing that ruins the game.
They're not obligatory, you don't have to take them... though the game balance does assume that you do take them. That said, your Hindrances are how you earn Bennies during play: if you don't play up those "toothless" roleplaying flaws, you won't earn Bennies, and Bennies are very important. And those Hindrances that have actual game effects should give you Bennies when they're especially bad, too, and you don't even have to remember to use them.
>>46043923
When a system is written with the assumption that an optional component is always used, then it isn't an optional component.
>>46046655
In a competitive game, you'd be correct. If you treat tabletop roleplaying like a competitive game, though, you have a much bigger problem than whether or not Hindrances are optional.
>>46040327
It's another retarded not-D&D system where the players are bribed with a ton of free rerolls any time they fail a roll to prevent them from throwing a tantrum.
>>46047725
In the interest of not having (even blatant) disinformation spread, any system in which the players (and their characters) can be easily fucked over by bad rolls is not a system worth playing.
Examples of such are D&D (Hardly any re-rolling whatsoever, single die roll, little influence beyond basic modifiers) and WH40k RPGs (Fate Points hard to earn and are shit at allowing players to influence dice, single die roll, little influence beyond basic modifiers).
Savage Worlds has multiple dice being rolled at any one time, and Bennies can be used to negate effects (Shaken) or re-roll tests, and are liberally handed out. It's not the best I've seen (That would go to Nechronica), but as far as allowing players to influence their rolls, it's decent.
>>46049187
>to prove me wrong he throws a tantrum trying to defend bribery mechanics intended to prevent special snowflakes from throwing tantrums
>>46041403
Also...
Eh, I feel like if you want to play a generic system you already have OpenD6, FATE, GURPS, ORE, and plenty of others. OpenD6 if you're big into cinematics, FATE if you're big into structured freeform, GURPS when you need the verisimilitude, and ORE when you have a need for combat speed.
Savage Worlds is kind of lukewarm since it contains a lot of elements from other systems without really going too far with any one particularly interesting goal. It doesn't help that character creation is pretty fiddly trying to manage to translate your character concept into a sheet.
>>46040788
I'd add that you can mod and homebrew it without devoting the rest of your life to the project.
Additionally it's SUPER modular, like GURPS. You can take spaceship combat rules from one book, extended fear rules from another, mash some magic on top of it and it will work anyway.
As for exploding dice? It's a feature, not a bug.
Now, the REAL flaw it has are pretty asinine default weapons, like shotguns - buckshot's MEANT to be stopped by even the lightest armor, but really isn't, so shotguns are CQB king. They urgently need a houserule.
>>46043923
That's not how Bennies work brah, you get them for generally pleasing the GM.
Gearing up for a cyberpunk campaign soon, am fucking stoked.
>>46050380
>shotguns
>complaining about their damage and not their fucking broken-ass bonus to hit
Really nigga? If you're within short range of anyone with a shotgun you deserve to die. I find giving regular shotguns a +1 to hit and sawed-offs +2 worked for my game, although the way they work in East Texas University is also acceptable.
>>46050017
What if I want fast, tacticool combat with no autism?
>>46050702
Also gun-wise I switch the statlines for AKs and G3s around. No fucking way a full-scale battle rifle only hits as hard as a piddly 5.56.
>>46050702
>complaining about their damage and not their fucking broken-ass bonus to hit
that's not what I explicitly meant, though implicitly that makes is easier to score a raise for that sweet additional d6. But yeah, that's another problem with shotties.
>although the way they work in East Texas University is also acceptable
I'll have to check it out, then, can you explain how they wrote them?
>>46050834
>5.56
you wot m8
they're both 7.62, only ak cartridge is 39mm long and g3 is 51mm or something, forgot the accurate 7.62 nato length. But yeah, your point still stands.
>>46051305
I'm saying the G3 has the same damage dice as the M16, which is 5.56, and that fucks me off.
I don't mind the AK and M16 having similar damage as a result.
Also, in ETU the shotguns only get the +2 to hit at medium and long (and probably extreme if you're using that rule) range, as the shot scatters over distance. Makes sense, but does mean they're just flat-out better than a pistol or SMG for single targets.
>>46051367
Derp. I meant
>flat-out better for single targets up to medium range
and
>G3 has same damage overall as 5.56, while the AK gets the +1 for some reason, swapping the G3 and AK statlines so AKs hit as hard as M16s is fine by me
how I into wording
>>46050017
Define "need for SPEED" combat.
savage worlds is fucking terrible why do you people keep trying to force this shit meme
>>46042165
>Most of the settings can be summed up as "60's hanna barbara pulp cartoons" Very Johnny Quest, very Scooby Doo" kind of vibe
Eh, I guess with the official Pinnacle settings, sure (Deadlands: Hell on Earth is great, though); most of them lean towards pulp. But out of all the generic RPG systems on the market, Savage Worlds has some of the best licensed settings out there.
Interface Zero is the best straight-up cyberpunk game available, especially if you're not into the whole fusion of magic and other fantasy elements in your cyberpunk. And Hellfrost is a kickass and gritty fantasy setting that has an incredible amount of rich lore behind it. These are lightning examples on how deep you can get the system to be.
An official SW adaption of Palladium's Rifts is also coming out soon. And there have been plenty of great fan conversions, Fallout, Ruins & Raiders, Savage Vancian Magic being my favorites.
>>46040327
It has a very specific feel. PCs and significant NPCs (termed Wild Cards) will get a basic success most of the time in any skill they are even moderately trained in. Wild Cards are just much more effective than mooks, even notionally skilled mooks.
It works really well for anything with a pulp tone; human-but-larger-than-life heroes, groups of identical mooks, quick-paced action-filled adventure where if the hero needs to fly a plane, tame a lion or swing from a chandelier, he can probably work it out if needed.
It works badly for anything other than that, either up or down. It won't work for anything where you want narrow or specialized skills, where you want down-to-earth PCs who will fail if they aren't proficient at what they are trying to do or where you don't want PCs to be just plain better and luckier than normal people. But conversely, it also adapts poorly to anything above human scale; it doesn't work for superheroes at all, despite the existance of Necessary Evil and Savage Supers. Things significantly tougher than humans turn the combat system into a unfun lottery-slog. There isn't a lot of support for balancing very powerful equipment, either; becoming stupidly rich only takes a small number of edges.
It works really well for things it works well for. Rule of thumb: the more the campaign you want to run is like Indiana Jones, the better SW will fit.
quick, before workday is over - I was thinking of running XCOM campaign, where players play extras, to simulate death-ness of the first games. Good idea or bad idea?
>>46052324
>It won't work for anything where you want narrow or specialized skills, where you want down-to-earth PCs who will fail if they aren't proficient at what they are trying to do
Not really. Skill Specialization settings rule, it's in the core book and Interface Zero uses it. You specialize the necessary skills you want for your campaign. For example:
Fighting
>Blade, Blunt, Polearm...
Flying
>Commercial, Fighter Jets, Helicopters...
Shooting
>Bows, Pistols, Rifles, SMGs...
Stealth
>Pickpocket, Sneaking...
You can get as specialized as you want with most of the skills, or add skills like Knowledge: Forgery or Hacking. And you give your players extra points to spend at the start of the game (20 instead of 15 as in IZ).
>>46052044
>Interface Zero is the best straight-up cyberpunk game available
Sorry, what was that?None shall outdo the king
>>46052989
>Still being this stuck in the 80s
>>46053512
80s or bust, choombata
>>46052438
Use Unisystem Classic.
>>46052989
I want play Night's Edge
all the damage control itt
>>46054336
Why would you want to play Night's Edge?
>>46054691
Because Cyborgs vs Vampires vs Cyborg Vampires is cool.
>>46054979
>forgetting the possibility of psychic cyborg vampires
And Savage Worlds still does it better. Horror + Sci-Fi companions, nigga.
CP2020's a prime example of a great setting married to a horrible system.
>>46055004
>Savage Worlds
>does it better
>than anything
3/10 trying too hard
>>46055024
>implying CP2020 isn't a fucking mess by comparison
>dat INT+REF=you win
>dat stun-shock save every time some faggot punches you
>full-auto being a fucking awful quagmire in vanilla FNFF
0/10 ain't even mad, come up with an argument that isn't MUH LUCK POINTS, MUH BRIBERY
>>46041603
>One pitfall to watch out for is a quirk in the math - because of exploding dice taking a skill at D6 is not actually an upgrade over the initial D4. Always take a D4 and a D8 over two traits at D6.
Actually, yes, yes it is. d4 works out to have an average of 3.4-ish a d6 is like 4.3-ish IIRC.
It's a smaller step than usual, but it's entirely worth it.
>>46055081
>troll had a good thing going baiting some replies and just completely threw the whole gambit into the trash for no reason
I don't get it, are you getting tired and wanted to give up, or...?
>>46055081
How is full auto awful? It's so completely simple.
INT + REF are the stats for combat, sure, but not everyone is expected to just dump all their points in to combat skills, because not everyone is a solo.
And the stun/shock save is great, why would you hate that? Are you just angry that people can feel pain?
>>46055151
>reponding to trolls
Comon man, don't get baited so easily.
I love savage worlds. Really. My group doesnt need roleplaying hooks, were larpfags so we really see crunch as a hindering necessity to our storytelling, so savage worlds with its easy and exspecially easy to homebrew system fits us just perfect. But by no means its perfect for every group
>>46055122
>everyone is trolls
>>46055151
Rolling locations for every hit isn't a pain in the ass?
And Int's also useful for pickup skills if you put a little extra into Edu too.
Fuck having what may as well be a save-or-die every time I get hit, wound penalties work fine for simulating pain. Interface Zero uses the Gritty Damage optional rule, which really gets across the fact wounds are meant to mess you up without arbitrarily putting you out of combat.SW experimented with something similar in the Russian Connection adventure, then it was dropped because it sucked
>>46055247
>still trying
0/10 not even close to believable, try toning down the faux stupidity a little bit you're way off the mark
>>46052989
Cyberpunk2020 is so outdated. IZ 2.0 does everything CP2020 does and makes it streamlined.
>>46055247
Rolling hit locations isn't a pain in the ass. See how simple it is?
The INT is good for pickup skills, but that argument completely falls flat from the fact that it's MUCH better to have a point in a stat that matters to your character than it is to have an extra skill point.
Sure, wound penalties work for simulating pain, but wound penalties in 2020 are for simulating the fact that your body no longer is in functioning order. The stun/shock is for pain, and well, shock. Very often in actual firefights, when someone is shot, they freeze as their body tries to decipher just what the fuck happened.
Though, I think of all systems, GURPS does damage the best.
>>46055341
...And if you don't have a diceroller?
Wound penalties and temporary injuries make Savage Worlds do much the same thing as CP2020 damage-wise, but with no save-or-fall-down horseshit.
>GURPS
Oh god, no...
>>46055360
virt pls
>>46055341
>pic
Is there a single cyberpunk RPG that doesn't make you break out the buckets and isn't tied to a garbage generic system?
>>46055458
Technoir
>>46055458
Well that automatically rules out savage worlds, and yes there is, it's called Cyberpunk.
>>46055481
>doesn't make you break out the buckets
Someone hasn't been using big enough guns!
>>46055392
Come on anon, just because a system has more rules, or is more complex/'realistic'/whatever doesn't make it bad.
"In the modern world, very few individuals have a natural aptitude for survival. The human mind works by constantly creating internal models of the way it believes the world to be, based on a lifetime’s cumulative experience. Situations experienced more often provide more data, which allows more accurate mental models. In turn, this enables the mind to more accurately predict upcoming events and decide on appropriate actions in familiar circumstances. The problem with sudden, unexpected events is that the mind is unprepared for them due to a lack of prior experience. This causes its mental models to break down. This difference between expectation and reality gets people killed on a daily basis because they can’t decide how to react to sudden threats, whether they come in the form of hurricanes, earthquakes, traffic hazards, or angry men with guns."
Also that is a very good reason for the stun/shock save.
>>46055458
You typically won't roll 10d10 in Cyberpunk 2020. The most I'd say is maybe 5d10, if you score a lot of hits in full auto. Despite that, I'd recommend... Huh, I don't know. I think GURPS does cyberpunk well, but everyone hates that. 2020... Shadowrun is hardly cyberpunk. I can't help you, sorry anon.
>>46055522
You're sucking the bait down hard as fuck, dude.
>>46051792
ORE stands for One Roll Engine. No initiative rolls are ever needed because they're baked into your one roll, and multiple actions usually happen at the same time from each roll. The dice mechanic used is a weird one, but you can crunch a lot of things into one turn and still only need one roll.
>>46050702
Fast "tacticool" combat is why I listed ORE in the first place.
>>46055522
Doesn't make it bad, sure, but it isn't what I'd call fun. But you know, opinions.
I like my fun with a concise skill list, competent characters that can take a hit, and rules that don't degenerate into what are effectively roll-offs for combat. If you want a more true-to-life, simulationist approach that's fine, I just can't stand playing that kind of game.
>>46055458
I once bent and twisted nWoD into a passable cyberpunk game, if ten dice or less isn't bucket-tier to you.
>>46055588
I hate ORE's die mechanic with a passion, it just feels like an overcomplex WoD dicepool to me. I'm probably very wrong, but I just can't get into it.
>>46049332
The only person throwing a tantrum here is you, kiddo.
>>46055593
I think having the whole lethal and simulationist combat thing makes it a lot more horrifying, as I like my combat to be. It makes characters not only want to avoid combat, but when in it, take as much precautions as they can to make sure they don't get hit. It brings an aspect of non-cinematic realism I like in RP situations. Very often in 2020 or GURPS you will find yourself blind firing from the thickest cover you can find, just because those men with big guns look awfully angry.
I suppose we've reached a peaceful conclusion here, huh?I think I've spoken to you before, haven't I? Don't we come to the same conclusion every fracking time?
>>46055656
He won't be able to respond for another 30 seconds or so, he was busy baiting someone else because you were being reasonable.
>>46055656
I like lethal combat, but for a given value of lethal. One lucky hit can ruin your day in a Savage Worlds game, but if you somehow aren't left bleeding all over the pavement you can probably still fight back. Assuming you can still use your weapon arm or you can still see your target, or your aim isn't fucked from the sheer damage you just took. God I love Gritty Damage.Quite possibly. Sorry.
Uh, probably a great place to ask... anybody here have the Interface Zero Republic of Texas pdf?
>>46041403
What are the rules for Autofire again?
>>46055004
Savage Worlds also requires me to convert lots of rules, which I don't feel like doing.
>>46056175
You can fire a number of shots up to the weapon's Rate of Fire. You roll one Shooting die for each shot, plus one Wild Die, with a -2 penalty on all of them.
So if you've got Shooting d8 and fire a weapon with RoF 3, you roll 3d8 and a d6, keeping the three best dice results and applying -2 to all of them.
>>46056351
Thank you.
>>46056260
>conversion
>the rules for psionics are right there
>so are the ones for playing vampires
>and the ones for cybernetic implants
What the fuck?
>>46040327
The things I like about SW:
Nice, concise skill list.
Quick rolling combat.
Mooks.
Simple spellcasting and powers.
HATE
"Bennies", wild dice, card initiative, all the stupid jargon and metagaming crap.
Millions of edges/hindrances. Why the hell are Dodge and Block edges? They're basic fighting moves that anyone with a Fighting skill would have. This is not fucking Death Chi Strike Special Attack. This is bad, Dnd 3.0-era design with hundreds of unbalanced micro-feats that nobody can remember.
Unbalanced skills. Boating and Throwing are not on par with Spellcasting and Fighting.
I'd play a Savage Worlds version with better skills, all the hindrances/edges and metagaming junk thrown out.
>>46040327
So I was wondering. There is a Conan Like SW setting called Beasts and Barbarians. One of the edges give you a free soak* roll whenever you take damage but bans you from using armour. Am I wrong or is it totally overpowered? Armours in this setting usually go from 1 (leather amour) to 3 (metal armour). It requires D8 agility and has a stronger (legendary) version that replaces your hero dice with D8 when rolling for soak. You also cannot use any edges that boost your soak roll when using this edge.
*I don't know if it's called soak in English. It's basically that roll where you spend a bennie, roll your vitality and soak one wound for success and each rise.
>>46056665
>Unbalanced skills. Boating and Throwing are not on par with Spellcasting and Fighting.
Depends on the campaign you're playing. Boating skill is near essential for a pirates setting like 50 Fathoms. Also throwing is another combat skill; an alchemist uses the throwing skill to throw ranged spells from potions, a thief will used the throwing skill from her grappling hook. But obviously some skills are going to be more useful with others, this is not something exclusive to Savage Worlds. A more fair criticism would be how some skills are very broad like Fighting, while others are very niche, like Gambling. But I use the Skill Specialization setting rule for most games so skills aren't so broad.
>>46056665
The idea behind a lot of those kind of combat edges is about 90% of the time a PC completely outclasses his opponents.
Think about Batman as a SW character for a second. He doesn't really need Dodge or Block to take down a bunch of cronies. His Fighting die is already really high, and he has the advantage of a second die. That represents his ability to not get hit by some random Russian dude.
So those Edges really only matter when he's fighting Bane. The Big Guy has a similar Fighting die. He also has a Wild Die. So now those Edges come into play. Batman *needs* to have Dodge and Block to go toe to to with him.
You don't need to like or agree with it. But that's the philosophy behind seemingly mundane combat edges.
>>46056665
So is it possible to play SW without all the edges and hindrances? Just ignore them?
>>46056665
I've just checked. Dodging is basically dodging projectiles which not everyone is able to do. Blocking just sounds stupid because you don't need it to block. Blocking is done by defence score which is influenced by your close combat so everyone who knows how to fight is able to block. The edge should be called Improved Blocking or something.
>>46057028
Considering armour is a really big factor in you taking damage at all, I'd say it's the opposite. You need a decent Vigor to take damage with no form of body armour, and aimed attacks to your head are going to be absolutely brutal.
And yeah, the right word is soak.
>>46057040
I quite like the broad combat skills, personally.
I may roll Throwing into IZ's generic Athletics skill, now I think about it. Thoughts?
>>46057126
>Batman *needs* to have Dodge and Block to go toe to to with him.
Why? Aren't they evenly matched in the comics? Where's the thrill of having a supreme battle when Batman has the mathematical advantage?
>>46057160
The reason he needs those Edges is because Bane also has them. That's what makes the fight an even match because it effectively neutralizes the advantages they have over regular enemies. A Batman PC fighting a Bane enemy is now essentially rolling against an opponent with similar dice. When he was fighting mooks, he wasn't.
>>46057131
>>46057131
You might as well play another system considering Savage Worlds characters are built around their edges. A professional edge replaces the classes from D20 games like D&D. A thief edge gives you +2 bonuses to skills a thief would use like climbing, lockpicking, stealth and noticing traps - this controls some of the swingy dice rolls.
>>46057248
>A professional edge replaces the classes from D20 games like D&D.
>classes
Thanks for the explanation, this is definitely not the game for me then. Cheers.
>>46057154
Yeah, but let me tell you how I got to this conclusion. Armour gives you +3 to toughness. To give character a wound you need to exceed it's toughness by 4 at least. However according to SW dice calculator a character with D8 vigour will succeed on it's soak roll roughly in 8/10 times. Which means that if you have D8 vigour this feat is most of the time better then heavies and most expensive armour in the game. It practically transforms you into a guy with 4 armor points. You can start with this edge but not with heaviest armour. 25% of the time you will soak 2 wounds which no armour can do. If you rise your vigour to D10 these probabilities rise to 84 and 40%. Meanwhile heavily armoured character can only count on getting a good magical gear from game master.
I'd like to be wrong because it's a nice feat to use and I don't want to cut it from the game.
>>46057291
You misunderstood that guy. You need edges if you want to emulate classes from other systems (like a thief) you don't really need to use these and it's a classless system.
However edges and hindrances are mandatory if you want to run a campaign with a magic-user because using magic requires you to buy an edge.
>>46057248
>A professional edge replaces the classes from D20 games like D&D.
I think this is an unfair comparison. Superficially it's true, but they aren't that nuanced. Professional Edges just give you bonuses to certain actions. They're not nearly as comprehensive as actual classes and the skillsets they represent can be articulated in more ways than classes typically can.
>>46057291
Savage Worlds is a classless system. Edges, however, can be used to simulate an archetype or class. If you want to create a Thief, pick the Thief edge giving you bonuses to certain skills for example.
>>46057351
Called shots to the head and vital areas are -4 to hit, +4 to damage. A skilled enemy will likely inflict an extra wound straight up attempting to lop your head off if he rolls well.
This isn't even factoring in the possibility of damage rolls acing and inflicting more than one wound that way, or all the other varying possibilities of combat (like being ganged up on, or fired at from a distance by archers who aimed the turn before, or that sort of thing).
Plus focusing entirely on increasing Vigor is going to be a bad move considering this sort of barbarian warrior is going to want decent Spirit and Strength too. Getting pretty much guaranteed Soak rolls isn't very helpful when you struggle with actually doing things thanks to the attack leaving you Shaken
>>46057424
>Professional Edges just give you bonuses to certain actions. They're not nearly as comprehensive as actual classes and the skillsets they represent can be articulated in more ways than classes typically can.
This is actually what I was trying to articulate, I was just trying to give an example on how easy it is to create a classic archetype (I should have used this word instead of class) from a game everybody knows by just simply picking an edge and the skill/attributes it requires. You're obviously not restricted to playing a thief if you pick the thief edge.
>>46057538
Ok, I'll try to run the game without changing anyting after I'll finish my WH campaign and remember to use called shots for every tough character. It was a while since I played SW and I forgot some of the rules. Thanks a lot.
>>46057584
No worries.
I'd recommend leaving called shots for skilled enemies who actually have a chance at landing them (like a d8 or higher in Fighting/Shooting). Everyone else would be better served with massed archery or mobbing the tough guy and hoping the Gang Up bonus lets them do more damage.And hoping he doesn't have Sweep
>>46057623
Gang-up bonus doesn't give you bonus damage. Also there is one thing I never quite understood. Does concealment give penalty to wizards trying to hit targets with magic missiles and can you use your magic missiles to do a called shot?
>>46057761
It doesn't, but it increases your Fighting check and thus the chances of it acing.
And probably? If we're talking the Bolt power, then yes, you actually have to aim it, and it can be used to target specific areas.
>>46057842
Thanks.
>>46057248
It's important to note how useful Professional edges can be... because the standard TN for the average task is 4, a +2 bonus means that you literally cannot fail the average task within your profession unless you roll a critical failure. It's an incredibly useful tool for making the super-competent character archetypes that are often found in the pulp settings that SW mimics so well.
>>46040788
Do what I did, limit exploding dice to one explosion for NPCs. Only wild cards can do those giant epic blows.
>>46047725
Big fan of Savage Worlds but I agree with this. I like Bennies but they should be one per session or one per advance. Otherwise it's just "oh you failed okay roll again" and is very dependent on session length. I prefer short sessions (2 to 3 hours) and a lot of them are mostly RP.
Don't give me shit about SW not being "right" for me, it's the best RPG I've ever played, but bennies being session-based pisses me off.
>>46050834
I give AKs and .308s the same damage, because fuck it whatever. Then .338 and up gets 2d10.
>>46056665
>Why the hell are Dodge and Block edges?
They represent a focus on those things. I do agree they are hard to remember though.
can someone sum up combat?
>>46062017
Fast, deadly, and likely to fuck up your plans.
See the .pdf as well.
>>46061923
>fuck it whatever
>.338 Lapua or bigger can whack light vehicles
There is no reaction image for what my inner /k/fag is going through right now
>>46061898
Hey, if your players aren't being challenged and having to spend those bennies that's on you
>>46062017
the distinguishing features of SW combat are primarily:
- initiative is determined round-to-round by dealing a card to every combatant. fast, unpredictable, doesn't even need note paper or any kind of counter. i see it as a positive advantage that it has no regard for everyone's stats, but you can take edges to improve init if it's important to you.
- damage is only tracked for important characters. the majority of damage is abstracted as a transient condition called 'shaken' which makes the character vulnerable to further damage that might take them out and is easy to track by tipping over their miniature. only the heroes and major villains track actual wounds.
these two mechanics result in fast-paced tactical combat with - and this is huge for me - practically no bookkeeping. And I really like the ebb and flow of play that comes from keeping your opponents beaten down with minor damage and changing up the turn order every round.
>>46061898
It's the easiest thing in the world to tweak if it doesn't suit the way you play. So you play for 2 hours at a time - just give everyone 2 bennies.
In my one extended SW campaign we'd generally play for four or five hours or so at a time and fit in a lot of combat, so everyone would burn through all their bennies. I'm fairly stingy about giving them out in play though.
I think it's important for a game to have bennies or some similar mechanic, because it's the only way for players to really stake something on a skill roll. It gives you more direct control over your character when you have a resource for putting extra effort in when it really matters. People who call fate points and the like "metagaming" are missing the mark.
>>46061898
Bennies are virtually a nonissue if you're playing longer sessions with longer and/more frequent combats. In fact, given how unpredictable combat can be they can often keep TPKs from happening.
But if you want to limit Bennies that's your prerogative. But I honestly think you should just play D&D if you're that opposed to safeguards against accidentally killing your players.
>>46062793
this.
and my group didn't abuse bennies that much, mostly because they refresh after every session.
i can recall they done it about 5 times every 4 sessions. (over 12, 6 hour sessions.)
>>46062915
Fitting image for what happens with no bennies, I guess.
I did an XCOM oneshot using SW, it was a blast. The team had weirdly great luck, the team heavy punched out a sectoid and managed to keep his AT4 in reserve until the very end, it was the team sniper who got the worst luck. First she found out her second .338 round was a dud, then she got temporarily mindcontrolled before the ayy responsible got pureed.
EXALT showed up, tried to bullshit their way into stealing the captive and artifacts, then got rough when that failed only to suck down that AT4
>>46061856
Another option is to have damage dice not explode at all, and allow multiple raises on an attack roll to stack, for +1d6 damage per raise. Since damage rolls often use more dice than checks, and each acing die is added together instead of using only the highest die, it's really only damage rolls that cause this issue.
This makes damage rolls much less swingy, and swingy damage rolls are the main issue with acing (since most rolls can only get one raise, acing over and over is only really a problem for damage rolls). Using this option means that damage rolls will rarely ace into the ridiculously high numbers, but a good run of aces on the attack can still get some high damage.
Since this is the closest thing SW ever gets to a general, I'd like to ask:
How would you guys run a dogfight? In atmosphere or in space, or even underwater.
>>46066617
Chase rules, page 94. Ignore that they're called "chase" rules, they work just fine for a dogfight.
>>46066617
>>46066726
Sorry, just to be clear, that's page 94 of the Deluxe Explorer's Edition, the latest book (the small one you can get for ten bucks). Not sure where they'd be in other books.
>>46066738
Duh. Thanks.
It even says "dogfight." I'm rattatarded.
Question: if one were interrested in 50 Fathoms, would one need the base Savage Worlds rulebook as well, or just the 50 Fathoms one?
>>46056665
>all this truth
>all the neo /tg/ scum denying it, having a tism spasm and samefagging trying to drown out any dissenting opinions
Why the fuck are all these threads exactly like reddit? I just want to talk about how to fix savage worlds
>>46070421
Is 50 Fathoms a supplement or its own game entirely?
Has /tg/ always been so anti-plot point/fate point/bennies?
I mean, it's a perfect valid preference, to like all the player's resources to correspond to something in-universe. Nothing wrong with prefering things that way and, yeah, if you don't like such things, SW is probably not for you.
(It's probably not "fixable" if you hate bennies; they are pretty integral in the way it works; take out bennies and a bunch of stuff breaks. Sorry)
But I find the level of vitriol *weird*. Did plot points kill your dog? They are not that new or unusual; I'd say about half of all RPGs have them. Some people like them; I'm one of them. Can't we live and let live?
>>46070583
>plot point
How can a point that takes back time and undoes something that just happened be a plot point?
>fate point
How can a point that takes back time and undoes something that just happened be a fate point?
>>46070583
I imagine the vitriol is mostly artificial. It's just people who want to start a shitstorm. They don't like bennies because they think it's a transparent form of player incentive. So they exaggerate it to say it's to appease buttmad casualfag players who'll throw a temper tantrum if they're super speshul snowflake OC is in any danger of dying. They say this because it gets them the (You)'s they crave.
>>46070720
You realize that everyone can see that you're replying to your own post, right?
You aren't helping the cause by making all Savage Worlds fans look desperate.
>>46070625
Well, in a game system which has what I'll metagame player resources", then it hasn't happened yet until the player has either spent MPR or declined to spend MPR. The resolution of rolling to hit in SW is:
Player rolls, if the result on either dice is high enough, the attack hits. If it is not, the player decides if he wants to spend a benny.
a) If he does, he rerolls. If the result on either rerolled dice is high enough, the attack hits. If not it misses.
b) If he doesn't, the attack misses.
The attack didn't miss until the player had used or chosen not to use the benny. No time travel involved.
Now, if you prefer to play games with a different resolution system, where all choices made by the player correspond to choices made by the character and when the dice hit the table, the narrative moves on and the result is the result, that's a fine preference.
But in games with MPR, time does go backwards; choosing to use or not use MPR is part of determining what happens.
>>46070733
I am >>46070583. I am also >>46070738. I am not >>46070720, promise.
>>46070738
If it was a point of the plot or the work of fate for your character not to miss that attack, why did you roll it to begin with?
>>46070583
Yes, we've always been anti-cheating in RPGs. Just see any That Guy thread.
Cheating spoils games, anon. That's why even though cheat codes have been built into just about every video game ever made, most people prefer not to use them during a serious playthrough. Otherwise everything you achieve in the game is cheapened to the point of being worthless.
>>46070873
You guys are as dense as your hatred for metagame mechanic. It's not cheating, you can still fuck up a reroll, maybe even dig yourself deeper in if it goes worse. It's a second chance, sure, but not an instawin button.
>>46070756
On the off chance that you're sincerely asking and not just being a dick... the plot and/or fate demands that you have a CHANCE to succeed more often when it's really important, not that success is guaranteed.
