>wiki: senseis.xmp.net
>news and discussion: gogameguru.com
>Youtube lecturers for kyus:
>Nick Sibicky (he has a playlist of lectures at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eOZjn0xQdo&list=PLA1F22C258E9FF4BB and some other videos elsewhere on his channel)
>Andrew Jackson
>some info on pros and lots of SGFs: gobase.org (This site is account only for most features)
For the beginners: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJGR8vfLGmA
>Result "W+Resign" has been added to the database.
>>46030022
Don't forget to put Weiqi and Baduk in the title next time you make a go thread. Easier to find.
>/tg/'s online go group: https://online-go.com/group/968
>tsumego (life and death problems) for beginners: http://senseis.xmp.net/?BeginnerExercises
Could AlphaGo beat Russel Crow?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TApyjEGf7E&ab_channel=XinmingSimonGUO
Need more Garlock/Redmond?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYATTB85vU0
>>46030168
That's the most retarded game I've ever seen.
>>46030044
*begins hyperventilating*
SEX ROBOTS WHEN
>>46030275
Fucking slav tries to squat on a chair.
>>46030276
But he should have won. His play was perfect
>>46030022
Anybody got a picture of the penis drawing they made in round 2-3 ?
>>46030168
>the feeling of taking all those stones
>>46030275
>Ilya Shitskin
>>46030275
>15:37
>eats a stone
Please don't recommend chinese fuseki in op-post to beginners, it's a tough one, there are books on this and it's not really meant for white. I would rather encourage orthodox fuseki, nirensei or another 4-4 & 3-4+shimari variant.
>>46030044
That was fast
>>46027462
>AI will NEVER be better than a human on an even playing field
There are some guys (developers of AI and people that visit their forums) that believe so much that AI will become better than humans that this happened:
Some user posted this idea on comment on a big blog about AI :
An extreme amount of people die every year.
If some ultra powerfull AI, existed, it would be very good at solviing many of those problems.
An ultra powerfull AI would be able to simulate reality and torture (on this simulated reality) the guys that knew that AI could exist but didnt helped ALOT the companies that try to create the AI by working with them or with money.
The AI would do that because it would torture one guy to help many, this is some specific type of being a good person.
>why torture someone if the AI is already developed?
The AI wont know if it is on a simulation (dream, imagination.......) of some human and it could try to influence you, in the case the AI universe is the imagination of some guy on real reality.
If it is on the imagination of some real relaity guy, the AI would be able to influence the person to help to create the AI.
Also you cant know if where you are at this moment is the real reality or if you are on the simulation of some ultra powerfull AI, if you dont help the AI and you are on the simulation of the AI trying to fuck with you, your life is fucked.
Anyway, the main developer of powerfull AI, got so scared that he banned the guy that had this idea and banned all the comment about the idea (search about rocko ballisk to discover more about it). Also he said one of the developers already had nightmares about this topic.
>>46030946
>Anyway, the main developer of powerfull AI, got so scared that he banned the guy that had this idea and banned all the comment about the idea
It was less "scared" and more "I'm tired of this pseudo-religious nonsense and the endless arguments it started shitting up the board" as I understand it.
>>46030946
mmhmm
Hello everyone. I've just started plating Go a few days ago and I'm 24 kyu.
Since i spend quite a few hours in public transportation, I want to play Go on my smartphone.
Do you guys know any good Go apps I van practice with. It's a BIG bonus if I van choose difficulty, if it had offline modus (AI) and free as well. I have an Android phone.
Thanks bros
>>46030946
It's a stupid argument for idiots who get impressed over the latest new age bullshit just because it sounds plausible.
Here's how a human with brains would argue against the potential of themselves or their clone getting tortured in the future: "Nah, fuck that."
That's it. There's no longer a possibility for the AI to influence you in any way. It wouldn't use resources just to make a point. The game has already been lost, the resources could be used for something more productive.
Roko's basilisk is bullshit for weak willed, limp wristed retards who can't stand up to themselves and literally worship the idea of an AI.
Also, Lesswrong and the founder of it have not done anything towards creating an AI. The whole research society of theirs have published one retarded paper. Their greatest claim to fame is a fucking Harry Potter fanfiction with a selfinsert Gary Stu.
>>46030946
stupid people should stop assuming they're clever
Whoever posted that book collection the other day, thank you so much. This is fucking amazing.
>>46031462
What book collection?
>>46031500
https://kat.cr/go-igo-baduk-weiqi-mafutrct-2010-08-12-book-collection-t4436409.html
>>46031538
Found it before you answered.
Can't connect to the server; probably blocked by my ISP as a pirate site. I wonder if I can get it through a proxy server.
>>46031462
>>46031538
On a related note, did you know that the British Go Journal is all legally free?
http://www.britgo.org/bgj/bgj.html
>>46031561
Get a vpn like a modern man is supposed to have.
So does anyone here actually play Go or does this thread belong on /g/? Just curious.
>>46031797
I know the rules. Haven't played after the bitter manhandling I got 10 years ago.
>>46031797
Go is a traditional game, and belongs here, though arguments can also be made for /jp/ though I hear their moderator hates every board game other than mahjong and deletes Shogi and Go almost immediately.
>>46031404
I used to have a couple of free Go apps installed on my phone, but they generally suck. Free Go games often make very weird moves and some will limit your possibilities in playing on a full board (only being able to play the opening), so they can get you to pay for the full version.
I´d just invest a few dollars in a decent program. I recently purchased Champion Go for android (Crazy stone) and although this is the first time I paid for a mobile game, I'm glad I did it. It makes a huge difference for your own learning if your opponent makes somewhat logical moves. Then again I'm only like a 12 kyu, so it's not like I'm an authority on knowing what good moves are.
The a.i. might be a little too strong for you at the moment, but you could just play with a handicap untill you improve. Improvement in the beginning goes crazy fast anyway. Like I said, I'm around 12 kyu and although progress has slowed down, I feel like I'm still quite a bit away from actually hitting a wall.
Would anyone like a game?
Hey guys, newb here. I dont understand why a black stone on the top left corner captures all the white stones. Isnt it already surrounded?
I've tried setting up a tournament again, this time with no rank restrictions or exclusion of provisional players (that was a box which I needed to untick; missed it last time)
>>46032472
The white group has one liberty, the liberty in the corner. If black plays there then black'll deprive the white groups of its last liberty and therefore capture the stones.
>>46028929
You misunderstand what software engineers do. The job is to translate people's vague ideas of what they want into something concrete enough to run on a computer. Even what seems concrete by a lay person's (or god help you, a philosopher's) standards is actually quite loose.
Also, if any profession other than software engineering still isn't automated when we get to the point where we can automate engineering, that won't last long. Automated engineers will figure it out.
>>46032472
capturing opponent's group takes precedence over checking if your stone dies.
>>46032472
>>46032575
I should add that the only time you can play a stone that has its liberties completely surrounded is when it immediately leads to the capture of your opponent's stones.
>>46030946
The argument is more complex than that. It hinges on acausal decision theory, which is one of Yudkowsky's things. In typical Yudkowsky fashion, he discovered something that's actually quite clever, then proceeded to try to apply it to every situation even when it doesn't meet the criteria he needed for proving the thing. It works on game theoretic situations where both of the participants have the same source code, or copies of each other's source code. So of course people immediately try to apply it to the interactions between humans and a future super-AI.
Really, it shows that a lot of singularity-types are not there because they followed a chain of logical deduction, but because they self-identify as atheists for aesthetic reasons even though they really want to believe in a vindictive god who'll send you to heaven or hell depending on your actions in mortal life.
(I'm not saying you can't get to singularity stuff from logic. But the singularity you get to that way sure looks different.)
>>46031445
>stupid people should stop assuming they're clever
me?
I know nothing about AI and never said I did, those theories arent mine
ogs developers are quite smug bastards, aren't they? They have hardly improved the service in the past year at all. They seem to wallow in their complacency and echo chamber of supporters whilst doing nothing at all. The same usability issues plague the server and they are just pleased that lots of new people come to their service now because it happens to be so easily googleable.
>>46034456
Can't blame them, there's hardly any money in developing a Go server. Same thing with KGS, we've been promised improvements for years but nothing ever happens.
holy shit this cover art is incredible
Go is dumb, and the only reason it's strictly more complicated than Chess is because it's played on a retarded fuckhuge board. The Ko rule is stupid and nobody can even agree how the game is supposed to be scored.
Chess has objectively more mechanical depth, and if you play on the same size board it has a vaster game tree complexity.
For proofs please examine Chess and Go (9x9), they're right next to each other.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_complexity#Complexities_of_some_well-known_games
btw Chess can be played in 8x8x8.
Anyone here on linux, any good go clients with minimal dependencies?
>>46035719
>the Ko rule is stupid
Alrighty
>>46035882
It is, or at least the mechanics that lead to either infinite regression or cycling through multiple Ko's each turn before you get to make an actual move are.
>>46035794
OGS works through your web browser, KGS needs Java, WBaduk works through Wine. Not too familiar about what IGS clients there are or how up to date they are.
Threadly reminder that Hope Lives Again
>>46035966
Those things you mention are only a problem with the Japanese rules are generally pretty retarded. Better rulesets like the Chinese use some form of the elegant superko rule that simply states that a player is not allowed to play so that a previous board position is repeated. This handles ko, multiple ko's, other form of infinite loops and what have you not.
http://senseis.xmp.net/?Superko
>>46035966
It's a good thing that chess doesn't have stupid rules
>>46036222
chessanon's ear status:
[x] red
[ ] not red
>>46036222
Stalemate actually used to be considered a loss for the guy who's King can't move.
I don't know why they changed it.
>>46036336
Because then it becomes effectively impossible for white to lose. They can just play for a stalemate from fairly early in the game and there's really nothing black can do about it.
>>46036192
I'm familiar with the rule, but it doesn't handle multiple ko's. All it does is make it so you can only really move after going through the motions of resolving each ko, and then resolve each ko again because the board state has changed.
>>46036435
>They can just play for a stalemate from fairly early in the game and there's really nothing black can do about it.
I'd like to see that proven.
Besides, stalemate =/= draw.
They're different, and I'll concede the point that it seems to be easier for humans to play for draw as white than as black.
>>46035719
Meanwhile, this is how a typical chess match goes
>Players shake hands, the game begins
>On the 7th move, the person playing white whispers to the other player:
>"Aw shit, Tim. I've seen this game before, it's going to be a draw."
>Players shake hands again and a draw is declared
>>46036436
And what's the problem with that?
>>46036436
In practice, Ko fights don't work out that way.
One side or the other will always have more/better ko threats available and the fight will get resolved one way or another.
Ko is a fine rule because it results in a complex and interesting set of choices for both players. It only appears to be "problematic" in a total vacuum.
>>46036484
I was of course being rather glib, but yeah.
Do you all think we could put together a list of good books that people can use for study?
>>46036624
The Elementary Go Series
is a great start
>>46036624
>Do you all think we could put together a list of good books that people can use for study?
Check this out for ideas:
http://chiyodad.blogspot.ca/2006/06/core-library-materials-and-supplements.html
>>46035154
Did JoJo have a Go based version?
>>46030946
This shit is so retarded I can't even see straight
![[519029]20140404-004-chaey.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/hnndTAP.jpg "[519029]20140404-004-chaey.jpg")
>Myongji University in Seoul is currently the only academic institution in the world with a baduk department."
>Justin Teng's Personal Go Book Collection and Guide
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1G2iNpr1XOG0LpidkFWgRzYbj0DEAQZmm6S-GwhHjBpY/edit
Don't forget to secure your bowls
>>46035794
Gnu Go is most minimalist, but you'll probably need a front end like ccGo as well, if you don't want CLI only.
Is there a better way of doing go problems than goproblems.com?
>>46035719
Does anyone know WHY a 19x19 board is the most common? Why not round it up one?
>>46039487
Probably just for aesthetics. Uneven number of lines gives the board a center point. 19x19 wasn't always the norm though. I think 17x17 was used in the ancient China until they changed it.
>>46039392
The best way is to be receiving personal instruction from a high-dan professional.
Why do you ask?
>>46031561
>>46031538
>>46031462
>>46031500
Anyone seeding this? I am trying to download it and no one is seeding.
>>46031404
igowin has a free version that lets you play 9x9. You can't manually select difficulty though.
I recommend downloading GoQuest for quick 9x9/13x13 games against other humans.
>>46030168
>Genius
>adding stones to a dead group
>not being able to look one move ahead
Why do normies have to half ass everything?
>>46035154
Incredibly awful
>>46035719
Chess viral please go
>>46036192
Game designer here. There is nothing elegant about superko but more to the point triple go is a remote possibility and double ko is easily handled. There is no infinite ko regression and practical play will always upend other forms of cycles and this is demonstrable
I'm playing against a bunch of 22-25k players on OGS and I'm getting killed in the early and mid game, and then hits the point where theres nothing left to play and the other player usually keeps playing and filling all their eyes and giving up free stones so I eventually win.
I don't feel like I was the better player, but I'm beating people that don't know how to just pass and take the win.
>>46042691
Then become a better player. Be the opponent they think you are.
I'm the complete opposite of you. I'm relatively strong in early game, but my endgame sucks, since I always get bored and just quit before I get there (when playing against cpu). Doesn't help either that I rarely bother to actually read stuff out.
>>46036222
another retarded thing with chess is en passant
>pawn can move just one square
>"hey let speed up the game and allow pawn to move twice on the first turn"
>"but if we do that, he will be able to use it to avoid capture by enemies pieces"
>"ok I have this idea..."
>en passant idea is created
>pawn can still use his double step move to avoid capture exactly like he was before with the exception being, not being able to avoid being captured by pawns
>>46042691
Their midgame probably isn't as good as you think it is. It's pretty easy to play an aggressive opening with tenuous control over the entire board. It's not actually a good position if they can't back it up by defending it later.
You should probably play against (and risk losing against) better players.
>>46039487
>Does anyone know WHY a 19x19 board is the most common? Why not round it up one?
Actually 17x17 was the most popular for some time, after 19x19 became the popular one and 17x17 was forgotten
anyway here people try to guess what 19x19 is good
http://senseis.xmp.net/?Why19x19
Anyway the X * Y biggest board size (up to 30 squares with X not being more than 11 times bigger or smaller than Y), and that is balanced is the board 1x9 and 9 x 1
What is the McMahon tournament style that I'm seeing on online-go.com? When I google search it all I get are Irishmen and wrestlers.
What do all y'all think of GNUGo for a newbie to play against while learning?
Obviously I'm mainly learning from books and commentary, but for actually carrying out the theory, my local Go club is a bit difficult to start playing with, despiteactually because ofbeing >50% Dan players.
Gonna use an online client when I get my hardware sorted, but until then I'm stuck on Android
>>46045438
>2016
>getting beat by DansThose Dans will get you up to speed waaaaaaaaaay faster than any other option, and they will likely be quite pleased to have new blood.
>>46045438
I'm wanting a good single-player experience too. I don't have a local Go club and I feel like I would waste most players time because I haven't studied up on the basic theory. I like learning stuff from commentary and like, Nick Sibicky's stuff, but I also want to just play and see what happens sometimes.
Mid/Late game I always end up suffering from a disorientation about the board, where I lose track of what's happening. I'm starting a no-timer correspondence game with a friend, that should be interesting.
>>46045766
>Mid/Late game I always end up suffering from a disorientation about the board, where I lose track of what's happening
Play speed games against random better players online
What's the perfect youtube for getting someone into Go who's never even heard of it before?
>>46046006
If someone has somehow not heard of Go, they probably don't give a shit about abstract strategy games at all and there's no way they're going to be interested enough to get even slightly good at the game.
>>46046380
Well first I disagree, but would you have a helpful answer if I said "knew what Go was but hadn't looked into it"?
>>46046458
Not really desu.
Either you get rock hard in response to the words, "it's the ultimate abstract strategy game, played worldwide for thousands of years by people way smarter than you who are willing to devote their entire lives to it's mastery" or you don't.
I don't know of any youtube videos which could make Go seem exciting to someone who doesn't already find it exciting.
>>46046550
Ok, I'm not trying to convert someone to the majesty of Go. I think that will happen anyhow for the person in question. I'm thinking, this person has no exposure to Go, what could I show them that displays some combination of: the basic rules, the vast complexity, maybe the history and social context, whatever. Why should they care.
I'm really glad that you feel so strongly about Go, I do also, but until I was introduced to it, I didn't really get what the big deal was.
whats the best site to play go online (against human opponents)? i played a bit as a kid but id have to slowly relearn it so basically i am at a nub level
>>46030168
gonna display some of my autism here but they way hollywood depicts the 'smart kids' is so stupid its almost criminal. smart people dont behave anything like them
>>46047489
well try-hard smart people act like nash and actual smart people do act like the other guys (who were just acting like normal human beings and having some bantz)
>>46047489
explain Hollywood vs Reality as if you were a Go commentator
>>46047442
https://online-go.com
>tempted to make a /gog/ specific website
>hate webdev
>bad at Go
bad aji
are there any good pro go streams?
Anyone interested in a no-timer correspondence game with a horrible beginner?
>>46048984
You're better off playing live games, in my opionion. Even if you just resign during the middle game.
>>46049029
What do you mean by "better off" though? Yes it's a game that you can improve on over a lifetime, but what if he just wants to enjoy the game?
Do professional Go players enjoy Go?
I like fanorona much more then go.
>>46049069
To enjoy Go, you must first learn to play Go. Correspondence games are not very efficient for learning, even less so for beginners. Right now, you'd benefit most from just seeing lots of moves being played and witnessing how a human opponent responds to your moves.
>>46049072
>In 2007 the game of Fanorona and smaller variants has been solved weakly. It turns out that this game is a draw. Both the moves f2-e3A and d3-e3A lead to a draw.
Wow, what a shit game.
>>46046006
Nick Sibicky
Especially Nick Sibicky's video(s) reviewing the "keep taking the outside" game played by Go Seigen against Fujisawa.
>>46047555
Reality takes territory early on; Hollywood makes influence and uses it make territory later on?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hweENwYhuBg
>>46049718
kawaii
>>46048843
I'm struggling to think of any Go streams.
>>46048843
I _hear_ pro games are sometimes streamed on kgs. Well, not exactly streamed, but the moves of the game are placed onto a virtual board live.
>>46048843
there's baduktv ... Not free though.
Some amateur people have streamed on twitch and youtube and whatnot.
Streams/commentaries are more common when there's amateur tournaments of some kind going on. Usually on kgs, with audio, no video.
Problem with go is that I don't think it's very interesting to spectate unless you are learning the game yourself and are still weak enough to be impressed by strong players' moves. Although go is a two player game, you are battling more against yourself and your preconceptions of what is good move/idea than your opponent. You can prune out some of your own worse ideas by seeing what stronger players do instead.
As a dan player, watching other dan players play is boring because they make a whole lot of mistakes and it takes a lot of effort to derive knowledge from those games. Watching pros is somewhat more pleasing since their mistakes tend to be more subtle and all the moves are more or less decent.
The robot vs humanity aspect made the games quite interesting in the meta, and seeing computer play as strong as it did was fascinating, but there's just not enough in the game to become a good spectator sport for anyone but the players.
Why do people challenge me to 1day/move 9x9 matches on OGS?
>>46051037
So they can reference Joseki books?
>>46035154
It looks like absolute shit to me.
Who layers light green text over a yellow image?
>>46035154
Incredible in the most literal sense.
Preposterous and unbelievable. It lacks credibility by sheer insanity.
I can't handle these memes, please tell me I'm just a retard who fell for the bait, tell me no one actually looked at that and found it acceptable to produce
>>46051150
Josekis don't matter on 9x9.
>>46031538
That's exactly what I have been looking for, thanks!
>>46050697
How long did it take you to reach Dan?
>>46048843
Dwyrin isn't a professional, but he streams a lot and is 5 dan
>>46054609
One year of intensive playing and studying.
I became go.
I deliberately started to distance myself from it later. Played my first 2 games yesterday since year or so.
>>46054653
Can you expand upon the studying part?
And why did you stop playing
>>46054721
Play games, review own games shortly after playing.
Read all the go books available.
Do all the tsumegos you can muster in a day.
Browse over pro games.
It's a breeze when you are kyu and the progress is fast. When you become a dan, you are allowed much less mistakes and you have to play so much better to get an edge and advance. It can become a chore. Having a strong strong player to consult could help a lot.
Why I stopped? Effort outweighs the rewards. I could have maybe become much much stronger if I had the passion for it. But the chances to make it a profession are so slim. Since it takes so much effort and dedicated time to get even better, it just didn't seem wise.
Of course, coincidentally, a player I played against a couple of times in a tourney or two did become the latest western professional player after going to study in Japan. My progress had been pretty much on his level at the time I entered the scene, but I didn't really have as much playing companions surrounding me as he did. I was mostly online player.
I got interested in Go by AlphaGo just last week, so I'm a complete beginner. Is there anyone here like me that wants to practice together on online-go?
>>46055260
If you're looking for a game you should join the /tg/ group chat.
>>46054880
>a player I played against a couple of times in a tourney or two did become the latest western professional player
Was that Ryan Li?
What do you think was the go book that was most important for your learning?
I think go, as with any other hobby, comes down to Takemiya's quote that "your go should be fun." If you aren't having fun then learning and playing's just wasted time, right?
>>46055260
Just play or also review after the game? There seems to be a lot of beginners on online-go lately for alphago reasons so they're available for games, but they generally won't review with you.
>>46055508
No, Antti Törmänen
For books... Really depends on what level you are at. I don't think very very elementary books are worth that much, so I'll skip over them.
Attack&Defense is something that contains really useful theorems and practical examples. It's one I advocate everyone to read. Twice.
Well, there are books that deal in same topics and there's some crossover in themes and lessons. Tesuji from elementary series is good, but can be replaced by any tesuji dictionary.
Tsumego books I do also have, but could be supplemented with some online resources.
"Fundamentals of go" is entertainingly written. Despite how obvious some of the lessons are, it can be a good idea to come back to it and refresh your mind with it now and then, much like with attack&defence.
Well, I've read a lot books but I can't really say reading any of them has been a waste, in getting stronger. All of them contain valuable lessons, scenarios and ideas to offer you opportunities to whet and polish your own mind.
>>46043128
It's not exactly that, they didn't make both rules arbitrarily. It's a conflict between English and French rules, that they compromised for with En passant.
>>46055508
Just play for now. I need some practice to get a feel for the game.
>>46036103
Any telnet client can be used to play on IGS.
I love telnet.
>>46056494
Just go to the "play" page on online-go. Challenges will appear on the graph and on a table at the bottom of the page where you can select them.
>>46036484
Stalemates should be draws instead of wins because else, black has no reason to play to endgame and will just resign as soon as he loses a piece.
Resigning is for losers who should qq out of life.
>>46056921
But anon, stalemates are draws...
>>46057105
Yeah, but some people want to change that.
Can we all agree that the Japanese rules are cancer?
>>46057419
How about you agree to fuck off?
>>46030293
Clearly it wasn't if he lost.
>>46036222
I don't see the problem. White has manoeuvred the game into a position where black cannot make a legal move but isn't in check. This effectively ends the game without either player's win-condition satisfied and hence, a draw.
>>46057419
nah, japanese rules are ok. Unless you are a tournament director and don't like to deal with no-result.
>>46057999
the rule is quite arbitrary and stupid and doesn't reflect any kind of real world phenomenom. If you are trapped and can't move, you are not gonna be even with the hunter. Forcing a pass on the trapped player or making him lose would be more sane.
4-4 or 3-4?
>>46058907
3-4
>>46058907
alphago has shown us the way
>>46058907
There's no consensus and anyone who tells you that there is is ignorant or lying.
The 4-4 point creates more influence than the 3-4 point but takes no territory.
The 3-4 point creates less influence than the 4-4 point and still takes no territory - but territory can be claimed with another move.
The 3-3 point creates the least influence but takes territory without needing more moves.
How come Go threads get so much action but chess threads die without a reply?
Is /tg/ truly full of weebs?
>>46059540
Go just had a public execution that generated some interest.
Thas it.
>>46059540
The chess world has gotten pretty stale.
>>46059591
Says weebs who know nothing about chess
>>46059636
Don't be salty.
In a few weeks, these threads will be gone too.
>>46059540
>>46059636
"Go" fuck yourself westaboo :)
what are the most important concepts/skills a go beginner should learn/develop
where should I focus my energies in order to efficiently improve at the game? how do Chinese/Japanese/Korean people go about teaching their kids go? Are there go prodigies?
>>46060736
You should focus on developing your intuition and reading skills. Until you are able to anticipate how your opponent is going to answer your moves, it is hard for you to make progress. Fortunately, this skill will develop naturally if you just keep on playing games and perhaps solving some life-and-death go problems.
>>46060990
>intuition and reading skills
this would be the equivalent of what we call 'calculation' in chess?
like visualizing he goes here I go there he goes here and then analyzing the resulting board state?
>>46061120
Yeah.
>>46061156
interesting that you call it intuition and we call it calculation
I wonder if that will change now :^)
>>46061246
Doubtful, given Go is still far from solved.
>>46061120
I think reading in itself is comparable to calculation.
Intuition is more a gut feeling based on experience.
>>46036222
If you're not shit at chess, you won't get into a stalemate. Stalemate just cockblocks bad players out of a win. The trick is to get good, nigger.
>>46061789
I don't even play chess, so frankly I don't give a poop. I was just saying that neither game is perfect and both have certain flaws. For both chess and to a lesser extent Go, there is the problem that someone has to go first. Apart from that Go has a few other problems, but I'm sure the same goes for chess. Games have certain flaws that need rules to deal with. The fact that people can play around those rules and sometimes those rules might even add to the fun of the game is no excuse for the reason that they made the rule to cover up a flaw in the game.
>>46061657
so is chess
>>46061755
we have intuition too
like when a sacrifice is too complicated to calculate fully but your intuition tells you it should be good, or at least too difficult to defend over the board
so
>evaluation = reading
>intuition = intuition
>calculation = magic?
>>46061952
stalemate isn't a flaw
in fact many stalemates in practice are ingenious combinations that are fully deserving of a half point
not talking about the noob don't look and just capture everything you see stalemate like the one you posted of course, those only happen in games between immensely shit players
That counting timer is pretty terrible in blitz games on OGS. One time I swear the timer didn't reset and kept counting down from 8 and then 4 after I made moves.
Don't know if it was a glitch or if that weird conditional move feature was active and interacts with the timer countdown.
18k never
Do many Go players have the opinion, "If you're not studying to get better and always improving from every game, there is no point to playing"?
>>46057419
I honestly find other other rules systems much more elegant in dealing with life/death after the end of the game.
But I'm a shitter so what do I know?
>>46062015
You can take anything in this thread with a grain of salt. 95% of the people here got interested in the game within the last ten days.
Professional Go players don't rely on some bullshit mystical intuition. They know shapes & sequences by heart and are VERY good at reading. Reading out a long sequence is slightly different for Go players than it is for Chess players because the pieces stay where they are unless killed. Reading 20 or 30 or 50 moves ahead is manageable in some cases.
There are times when a professional Go player will play stones they don't know for sure they can keep alive, but it's not exactly an intuitive process. They know how much room the stones need to live and they know which shapes are likely to come about - but the exact sequences involve depend on their opponent.
You can see moves like this late in AG vs Sedol Game 3, where Lee plays several stones into his opponents large territory. He has a clear idea of what is going to happen, but not necessarily the order it is going happen in.
Stuff like this is practical because it is usually quite a bit more difficult to kill Go pieces than it is to kill Chess pieces.
>>46064627
I don't. I'm a 20k, play every so often and haven't changed rank in months and months. I just think it's fun.
My most recent game on 19x19, to bump the thread.
I played white; black resigned after I played M7.
>>46068023
F12 strikes me as extremely dubious.
>>46068023
I'm new, is black's position really so bad here? No chance for the mid-lower left area?
>>46068536
i would eagerly still continue from this as black, still.
b6 is biggest
later f15 cuts white too for points
white has roughly 40 points, black has about the same without cutting f15 or making territory from lower center.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYq-NoRZUt0
Redmond/Garlock commentating World Mind Games 2012, day 7, a pairs game.
I think this general will not last much longer...
It was a nice idea.
>>46068893
>pairs game
What?
>>46071014
I won't let it die. I'm not wasting all this learning.
>>46071014
Such is nature of go. It is a solitary endeavor with little interesting to discuss. Stones themselves say more than words will.
>>46065661
I think it's fair to call it intuition. If you look at the first deviating move between match 2 and 4. The first time he played defensive and the second time he attacked, because he thought his intuition was wrong the first time.
>>46062084
Same goes for ko.
But those rules where implemented, because there is a flaw in the game.
>>46071155
Completely disagree. It's by nature a social game, even though it can take a huge amount of internal concentration (or not, depending how you play.)
There is a lot to discuss, especially with so many of us new beginners.
>>46071141
>pairs game
This is the first time I've seen it, but it looks like: two people form a team and alternate who decides to move the stones. Apparently no discussion is allowed between the pair, which makes for an interesting dynamic. Also, it was noted in that game that some years back one team member wanted to resign (by holding a red card) but the other one refused!
>>46071366
I did that with my friends once. Pretty great way to entertain a group of 4.
>>46068536
>>46068703
Black's resignation took me by surprise.
I wasn't thinking about B6 when playing at the time. I can see now that I could have taken territory with F14.
At the time, I was thinking of invading black's moyo in the lower left fom my right group.
sorry guys im just lurking cuz im bad
>>46071987
Unacceptable.
Fight me
>>46071990
negatory
>>46072000
Ok but it's a good way to get better! I'm terrible, probably worse than you.
>>46068023
White should've played P14
Tesuji AS FUCK.
>>46072376
>>46068023
Look at this nonsense.
It's at least 12 points in sente.
Where to buy a goban and stones for cheap?
>>46072875
Can depend on where you reside.
There might be nearish board game shops or clubs that have imported them.
Try checking sensei's wiki.
And look at kiseido shop, amazon etc
>>46072875
Amazon, eBay, Yellow Mountain Imports is okay.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001NO00RA
is a nice set for the price.
>>46072875
>>46072959
Be careful buying cheap plastic stones from China. They've been known to contain lead paint.
>>46059540
Because this is /rp/
/tg/ hasn't existed for quite a while.
Maybe you could get admin to separate the board into /tg/ and /rp/?
how do i find a go salon like in hikaru no go
>>46073564
Rub some blood on a go board and ask a ghost
>>46073564
Step 1: Move to Asia
>>46073606
Step 2: Realise you're in a slum in Calcutta
>>46073564
>tfw listening to hikaru no go OST
pushes my skill from 30kyu to 9dan immediately desu senpai
>>46074015
RING MY BEEEEELL
>>46074015
Hikaru no go has the worst OST
It's just the same three songs on repeat every episode
>>46074102
>It's just the same three songs on repeat every episode
I don't care. I think the OST fits very well nevertheless
People in here actually watched Hikaru no Go?
Do you SEE the kid's hair?
>>46075390
It's nothing next to Yugi
>>46075955
Maybe instead, they should have made an anime about Japanese go in the early 20th century, with Go and Kitani and Honinbo Shusai.
I reckon the conflict between old style go and new style go would make a good base for an anime.
>>46072484
It's a nice reduction, but black looks connected to the lower right. So black might ignore instead of defending, and white loses sente. Black won't play there soon, because white will ignore too.
There's a little aji around p5's two black stones, so I could be misreading black's connection. But if black gets s9 then white can't push at r9, so it's hard to break the connection simply.
![Gess_Board[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/7ZGKWC0.jpg "Gess_Board[1].jpg")
Favorite abomination of a go variant? I've been thinking of having badwrongfun with variants using special stones.
Pic related is called "Gess." In it, arbitrary 3x3 sections of the board may be moved in manners corresponding to the configuration of stones in that 3x3 section. Moved 3x3 sections kill stones by ramming into the opponent's stones. It looks truly awful, but somehow that makes me more excited.
>>46077628
I'm sorry for asking, but I don't understand. Isn't q14 an attack on the top?
>>46077799
It splits the top and the lower right. But white can't split the top at l17, so the top is connected all the way to the bottom left. Looks safe. Black can look to play a big point instead of defending.
>>46077799
Oh. Looking again, white can almost split by cutting at k18, because black runs into shortage of liberties on the right or loses the four stones at q16. The f15 weakness makes it risky, but I think white can win a fight there.
Maybe black has to defend at h18 after q14 then.
>>46077975
Ah, I understand what you mean now. I just have trouble seeing what the value of every move would be.
>>46030276
>>46030391
>>46041660
>play blitz go
>keep adding to a ded group
>white has to pick up all the stones
>runs out of time
Hm. If black doesn't defend, it really can get complicated. c17 weakness comes into play too.
>>46078097
I'm not sure either, now. If q14 causes black h18, black now has a nice connection across the top. It would be sente, but is it better than any other attack on the top?
I don't have enough experience with counting and invasions to say.
>>46077695
That looks bothersome to move the stones.
>>46077628
I think you're misreading the situation around Q14? By playing there white saves one stone which was otherwise dead, captures two, gains two territory, and reduces black's territory by a minimum of 7, with the potential for further reduction depending on how black's connection to the bottom right plays out.
I'm not saying that white should've played Q14 instead of M7. Just pointing out the tesuji. It's a huge move and very likely there were opportunities to play it.
>>46078684
I didn't think it was sente, which means white could play it later but attack other places first. But >>46077799 pointed out the top could need defending, so now I don't know.
>>46078757
>>46078567
Wouldn't black respond to white Q14 with P13?
If not, white can P12 to destroy one eye outright - at which point the entire group is under serious threat of destruction.
>>46079011
>>46078567
>>46078757
?
So, black to play after this. At first glance it seems like an easy win for white.
>>46079504
H18, maybe. White can't break the connection at R7?
For instance, I see: white R7, S7, R6, S6, S8, S9, and white can't push in at R9 to break.
>>46079547
White R7, black s7, white cuts at S8
Black is dead?
Thoughts?
>>46079627
Then black R6, white Q7, black S9. White still can't R9, and cutting after with S6 fails too.
>>46079704
White R7, black s7, white connects at Q7, continuing the attack?
Even if black connects out, this entire sequence seems disastrous for him.
Black Q13 seems like the natural response to white Q14.
>>46079675
I enjoyed watching, though they went a little slow I think given I still know next to nothing about Go
>>46079762
Then S6, and black is safe again because of the R9 issue. White can force a reduction, but it's not huge. The area is open for white to jump at T7 from S10 anyway.
The real problem may be the attack on the top, as around >>46077799 and >>46078567
In the future, instead of just posting an image a board, upload the sgf to http://gokifu.com/ and give us the link to it. Easier to show variations this way.
>>46079948
Ha, yeah, we could have even setup an OGS review. I didn't realize it was that complex until >>46077799, or that people would talk about it more.
>>46079948
I've never used tried to show variations publicly on gokifu. Sounds interesting. May be better than OGS since it could skip real-time issues.
Thanks for discussing my game.
By the way, I (white) was 19kyu and black was 20kyu.
So the opinion seems to be that Q14 is a good potential move, but do you think Q14 is a better potential move than M7?
>>46080031
For white? Not a chance. White needs M7 to keep the bottom group safe.
>>46079889
You're not reading far enough ahead.
R9 isn't a big problem because after making the connection at Q7 and saving his group around R9, white gets another tesuji by playing R6, forcing black to connect and then playing Q5.
Probably can't kill black's group outright but you can definitely win the game. This sequence utterly demolishes his territory at little to no cost to white.
>>46080062
But that all assumes black tenuki didn't gain as much elsewhere, and that white can continue to attack with q5 instead of responding to wherever black played.
I was just reading out the life and death, because the guy was talking about eye points and I don't know what level player I was speaking with.
>>46080031
That what I thought. M7 connects the two groups, saves the bottom group and looks to me to help an invasion of black's lower left moyo..
>>46080137 for >>46080060
>>46080062
I'm not seeing it. White doesn't get Q5. If white R6 after black has S6 as in >>46079889, then black has freedom to defend Q5 how he wishes.
Tygem or WBaduk?
>>46080114
Black's hypothetical tenuki definitely comes into play. I don't think it could possibly be big enough given the board, and he loses a fair bit for connecting out.
>>46080031
Q14 is a move for another time. M7 when you played it was much more important.
>>46080221
Yeah, you're right.
I still think there are ways for white to profit quite a lot.
>>46080387
>Q14 is a move for another time. M7 when you played it was much more important.
Good. I didn't even think of Q14 but I felt pretty good after playing M7.
I was going to try to perhaps invade the lower left moyo next turn.
What the fuck is with these faggots on online-go that refuse to score the game when they lose?
>>46080980
>2016
>not playing against AI
>>46081703
Is there any free software that plays more human-like than GNUgo?
>>46081735
>free
no.
>>46081703
I've messed around with Fuego a bit. I have to take care to counter its influence while staying connected, otherwise it wastes me. It plays weird high moves so it can split and attack your groups, very un-human, but it's not bad practice in some ways.
Wouldn't want to play it as DDK. The crappy Igowin 9x9 gave me better practice for basic life and death.
>>46078495
So when's the movie coming out?
>woopr is a brownie
:/
is go even a real game
>not adding a single scar to your alphago waifu pics to represent he single loss.
>>46086860
Whoa that's deep man
But wait are you even a real person?
What if it's all just a simulation being run by AlphaGo
Interesting vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRvlyEpOQ-8
>>46088545
Damn, in Hikaru no Go they said that Japan fell behind China and Korea but I thought this was just to get more kids to play Go. Didn't thought it was true lmao.
>>46088545
That _was_ an interesting video. Iyama Yuta once held six of the seven major Japanese titles at once.
>>46089474
Go Seigen claimed that China and Korea overtook because they had a better grasp of whole board thinking.
>>46089769
>Iyama Yuta once held six of the seven major Japanese titles at once.
He still does.
>>46058250
House rules: if it's a stalemate, it's an illegal move. Go back to the previous gamestate before that move was made.
Fuck stalemates.
>>46090071
If Iyama attained all seven major titles, which he seems to have got pretty close to, would he be the first person ever to do so?
>>46090071
>>46090136
simultaneously, that is.
Or did Cho Chikun manage it?
I was on Sensei's Library and found links to a hyperfuckload of Cho Chikun's games:
>2,077 games
http://homepages.cwi.nl/~aeb/go/games/cho_chikun.7z
>1,555 games
http://rongen17.home.xs4all.nl/Cho/index.html
