Kings of War/Mantic General
Nobody ever makes a thread edition
Condensed rules:
http://puggimer.net/documents/KOW_Ref_2-0.pdf
Books:
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/meedbza42sp4m/Kings_of_War
Errata:
http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/File/KINGS%20OF%20WAR/KoW%20FAQ%20and%20Errata%20290915.pdf
Recommended list builder:
kow2.easyarmy.com
Hit "PDF" at the top right for easy posting of your lists
Includes relevant special rules on the last page.
Destiny of Kings - Anybody try it? Any thoughts?
ded thred edition
Does any faction have access to nimble ranged-focused cav regiments? Elven Silverbreeze is the closest/best I've seen, but it's only Troops.
Yeah its a real shame that they always seem very quiet. It's all the rage over here in the UK since GW squatted WFB.
Working on some Salamanders myself using lizardmen.
Don't mind me just posting more pics.
Some bases I've put together on the laser cutter. Sort of stepped temple bases
>>45989860
Ooooh, pretty. You made them yourself? How?
Why are they on different levels?
Is the Deadzone rules compendium worth picking up?
>>45989333
Forces of Nature and The Herd have Centaur Bray-Hunters.
The Empire of Dust has Skeleton Archer Cavalry.
The Varangur have Horse Raiders (with throwing weapons or bows).
>>45994241
Nice, thank you.
My wip Magus Conclave.
Thinking about using a blood effect to do some sort of sigil in the middle, but a little bit worried it will look terrible.
>>45995322
Have you thought about using a stencil and brushing through that? Freehanding something that is supposed to be drawn in blood is tricky, but at least using a circle that you can paint around makes things easier.
>>45995322
Looks cool anon.
If you can, try to draw some arcane symbols on the pages of that book.
>>45996376
Yeah, still need to do that, more work on the skin, finish the base and the dagger.
>>45989860
these look great!
I really need to get around to getting multibases for my Nightstalkers.
>>45988336
transparent
Hey dudes. Under what circumstances would I want to field a regiment instead of a horde? Putting together a ratkin army, mostly out of models I already have. Seems like hordes would be more frontage for less points, allowing bigger flanks for envelopment. But I haven't played the actual game yet.
What should I do with all these Mantic Points? I've got 31.
I'm working on some mercs from the Perry bros and gonna put handguns on them.
Are handguns any good in KoW? So far I've only been collecting undead stuff since I don't have anyone to play with.
>>45998927
Regiments are much more maneuverable than a horde. A horde is also a bigger investment, which alongside it's larger size means that often your deployment, movement and tactics involve working around your hordes where a regiment is more flexible and disposable. You'll probably get a feel for that after a few games where hordes can't make a charge because they can't fit through a gap or some such.
Regiments are also good when you need a troop of something, but you also need it to survive some light shooting to be worthwhile.
>>45994495
Goblins also have Fleabag Sniffs
>>45999325
>Are handguns any good in KoW?
I think they're actually pretty good against flyers with a high defense, which are a headache for a lot of armies. I haven't tested this much though, so take it with a grain of salt.
>>46001150
Ehh.
Either way I'm probably gonna add some mercs to my undead army and fluff them as human soldiers sent to assist undead troops.
I'm also adding cannons and mortars, they any good?
So far I'm planning on having skeletons and zombies with allied human kingdom units providing ranged support.
That and what would a Nagash mini be a good proxy of?
>>46001312
A very, very large Mhorgoth or a vampire on an undead dragon. There isn't a great fit for the Nagash model, honestly.
>>46001312
>what would a Nagash mini be a good proxy of?
Vampire Lord on Dragon? Big, powerful, expensive, flying, has some magic and can be upgraded to have more.
I've found shooting that isn't elf hordes a bit underwhelming. Ogre Shooters are okay, but a lot of their use is that they are handy in melee too and can catch opponents unaware.
War Engines are best used in a battery, they can be pretty inconsistent, so having a few really helps.
>>45989750
They just lack anything to bitch about.
Conversations are pretty much:
>So and so is great
>Yeah, I agree. Such and such is also great, too.
>Yeah...
Every time I see a new thread, I'm like "cool, I love KoW" and then I read the thread and I'm like "but... I don't have anything to say..."
Whatever happened to the homebrew anon(s)
>>46002775
Yeah. That's the thing
There's no setting to talk about, and not a lot of units are particularly "good" or "bad", so there's a lot less stuff to talk about than other systems.
>>46002842
1) Uncharted Empires dropped, so we had heaps of armies
2) Some homebrew armies reached the point of playtest but there was negligible playtesting actually happening.
>>45992315
Morning guys.
Drew them in CAD and then etched them on the office laser cutter.
>>45992345
I was just trying to go for that stepped temple sort of look desu. Might be a bit too much but it looks ok when painted.
>>45998927
Cheap hordes, if you have them in your army list can be great distraction techniques. I've got a zombie horde in my Undead list and I stick a Necromancer behind him with Heal and just walk them up the board. Yeah they get shot and charged to bits but combined with heal they take so much damage that otherwise would have been put onto other, more expensive units.
>>45997218
Cheers dude. Got any pictures of your nightstalkers? Would love to see what your doing for them. They seem really interesting but I wouldn't know where to start with models.
>>46003898
I'm slowly putting one together
Search Reaper for Aberration, and there's plenty of good ideas. Using some swirly, ghostly type models, as well as lots of tentacled horror sorta things.
Also old GW Horrors of Tzeentch, and some GW Tyranids I had from when I was like 12.
>>45994235
Nope, new edition very imminent which supercedes everything there. Hopefully with much better layout.
how many Kindred Archer Hordes is too many
Hey thinking about trying out KoW but only have a lizardmen army. What could I proxy them with? I have kroqgar on carnosaur, troglodon, stegadon, bastidon, tons of saurus and temple guard and a slann.
>>46010710
Salamanders. They are the copy paste lizardmen.
>>46008507
Do they have a release date for that?
>>46010902
I know it's in the kickstarter reward that ships late march.
>>45989750
>>45989811
Those are some nice bases, where are they from?
>>46012147
oh wait nvm. read the thread.
>>46010710
Grab the Uncharted Empires book, it has army lists for most Warhammer Fantasy armies in it.
>>46012176
Cheers dude. They are just etched and engraved 3mm MDF. Textured spray painted and drybrushed.
You've got to be a bit creative with a few of the Lizardmen units but as far as I remember it's almost like for like. I'm using a Slaan as a Komodon? as it's a monster that shoots stuff and there is a direct copy. But most of the other things have equivalents. Jungle swarms don't but there are enough other swarm entries in other lists you could use.
>>46002775
>>46002974
>There's no setting to talk about
Well, that has an upside; it's new and fresh and not riddled with cancer yet. Other threads don't actually have more quality content, they're just full of cancerous spam. Sure, our threads would last longer, but would you really want most posts to be:
>Oskan did nothing wrong
>Calisor was autistic
>Golloch is a faggot, signed Zerkziz
>Elohi are just Enforcers in magicland
etc.
>>46015137
Yeah, I mean, we haven't spawned a Carnac yet, so that's nice.
>>46015137
Winter best girl.
>>46015137
I left /whfg/ because of autismal setting arguments.
Warpath updates were posted, as expected, links @
https://manticblog.com/2016/03/01/warpath-structured-playtest/
Mass Battle Changelog:
General clarifications and corrections throughout, including a few tweaks to points values (Jotunn and Raptor) – be sure to double check your army lists.
Flyers are now a variant Vehicle class like Tanks are, rather than having a special rule. No mechanical change, just cleaner from a wording point of view. This prevented the redundancy of them having exceptions to rules that didn't affect them in the first place!
Firefight Changelog:
Added building “shadow” rules to line of sight section.
Clarified suppression and charge reaction interaction.
Added rules covering models with multiple weapons.
Clarified who rolls to attack in an assault.
Brought all suppression check/suppression token sections into line with each other.
Added Command to special rule page to provide page reference in later edition.
Clarified how many guns a vehicle can shoot per shoot action.
Added in rule regarding infantry size and transport capacity.
Added Bulky Special Rule to several units that should have it.
Fixed several typing errors.
Firefight still has the weird setup with Enforcers vs Heavy Weapon Enforcers being the literal same except HW is more versatile and IMO the Forge Fathers Stormrage Veterans are still absurdly good, comparing them to Enforcers (Peacekeepers or no).But I haven't played
>>46017037
Excuse me I'm retarded there actually isn't a Firefight update posted yet?
>>46016096
>>46015137
I prefer less setting. 40k and WHFB were at a point where there was a lot of fluff that just outright said no to stuff players might want to do. KOW lets the players work it out themselves.
>>46017990
I have found out that it let you make your own setting with friends.
I would like a better setting, but I'm okay either way, if I want fluff I just read whfb (before age of shitmare).
What's like the minimum points level to make a relatively balanced setup? Like, to avoid any "I brought an X and you didn't have enough points to have a counter/response to this sorta thing so you're fucked"
>>46018095
I think you can field a good variety of tools in 1500 points, but I don't think it would be too bad even as low as 1000ish points since units don't get bigger than about 350pts tops.
I painted up some red goblin scouts for my ogres. They seem very useful as Ogres lack speed and chaff.
>>46023128
who needs speed and chaff when you hit a guy and he explodes though
>>46015572
If we're going to Wafiufag it up, then Firebrand is the best girl, being both a dinosaur and pirate.
Now that I think about it, I am temped to do a Pirate theme Salamander army now.
>>46023681
As long as we all agree that The Green Lady worst girl.
>>46002775
We could talk about what we want from the three upcoming armies. Personally I'm interested in the Northern Alliance.
>>46026857
Wait, what are the three new armies?
>>46027002
From 1d4chan, unknown accuracy:
Northern Alliance: A good Elf/human faction from the far north. Said to field various ice-themed creatures as well, such as yetis.
Ophidians: A mix of Arabian and Persian motifs with undead servants and Conan the Barbarian style snake men.
Twilight Kin: Dark Elves with a bit of smexy Dark Eldar thrown in for flavor; live in caves beneath the desert after getting thrown out of the main Elf homeland.
>>46023128
Here is the pic.
Got some 1/72 "totally not warg riders" from Ukraine. Not overly impressed with them, but they were very cheap and the alternatives are either too expensive (GW) or have ridiculously oversized gaping maws (mantic)
>>46027145
Northern alliance could be nifty. I am a fan of persians however. Also an abyss inclined human faction could be neat, but not really needed since you can fluff up KoM to be whatever you want.
This might interest some of you, Mantic has just released renders of their new Centaur models.
>>46028572
I like that they're a mix of male and female models.
>>46028572>>46028596
The human waistline is too thin, the belts are much thicker around them where it connects to the horse part. Nothing a little greenstuff won't fix if it looks odd in person though. Otherwise I really like them.
>>46028572
>>46028596
I'm thinking I'll use these as Horse Raiders in a Varangur force. Got a Shield Maiden Army coming from The Kickstarter for the troops. Think they should mesh pretty well.
Just played 2000 pts Ogres vs. Elves.
I got absolutely DESTROYED by the drakon horde and the Dragon Kindred Lord with the Defence 6 armour item.
I've read through the anti-flyer tactics sticky but my Ogres, in my hands at least, seem to do very poorly against armies with lots of cav or flying. It's a ton of hitting power that is so manouverable that my whole deployment and movement seems to centre around denying flyers opportunities- and even then they are still good in a frontal charge.
>>46030713
Woops, pdf is missing 2 troops of red goblin scouts, warlock has fireball, warrior horde has brew of haste and a berserker regiment has blade of slashing.
>>46002775
this. We need dedicated shitposters, preferably tripfags too
>>46028572
Me rikey
>>46028572
>>46028596
Those look pretty good.
Shame I don't play a nature list, because those would be perfect.
>>46027591
There is an abyss inclined human army. The not chaos warriors: "the varaungar"
>>46031738
The Varangur are not Abyss-inclined, they worship a multi-faced god who actually hates the Abyssals.
>>46027591
I wouldn't mind an abyss themed army, but I'd prefer if it were different enough from Varangur or WHFB chaos to be needed.
Maybe an army of cultists, more along the lines of a Cthulu or satanic cult than the barbarians could fit that niche. Guys in robes who focus on stealth and magic as opposed to brute strength.
>>46033453
That sounds interesting, but it kind of sounds hard to make an army for. Maybe I'm just not imaginative enough but it seems more like you'd end up with an army with a few "unique" stat blocks (Although I'm kind of imagining just taking like the Magus, Magus Conclave, and then some ratkin rabble and refluffing them as pleb-cultists), but then the rest of the army would be Abyssal things that were summoned to fight, or other mashes of existing armies.
Hard to imagine a cultist army that is overly diverse in its tactics.
>>46027591
I'm having a hard time seeing how the Northern Alliance is a Good aligned group. The description makes them look like they lean pretty heavily towards Evil, even more so than the Varangur. Or maybe it's just bias since one of the biggest evil things it the setting was all about ice.
>>46034726
Yeah, I suppose that's a better idea for skirmish games than outright rank and file wargames.
Speaking of which, does anybody think that Mantic will visit the warband sized skirnish game idea, like Mordheim but in Mantica? I'd be interested to see their take on it.
Perhaps they just consider Dungeon Saga this, though.
>>46036899
Have you seen Star-Struck city? It was recently cleaned up for 2E, and has every single faction so far. It is KoW skirmish rules in notAtlantis with bitching campaign rules.
>>46037065
I actually hadn't seen that.
I'm impressed that they updated it so promptly after 2e came along. It certainly feels like something of an afterthought though. I haven't had time to look at it properly, but it doesn't seem as fleshed put as Deadzone.
>>46037065
Now with quickly added bookmarks!
Trying to come up with a night-stalkers list, but I'm struggling to come up with good options for units that just straight up kill stuff. Butchers seem like about it as far as stuff that can do a bunch of damage in melee.
>>46031899
>implying i care about mantics fluff
Abyssal is chaos and varanguar are WOC.
Kings of war is the best fantasy battle system in a long ass time but one read through of the chaos dwarf section about being fat from greed and you know to let other companies handle the fluff/miniatures.
>>46030713
That's tough. The best anti-flyer is having enough units for denial & protecting important flanks, and he's spending 350+ points just on the Lord and 270 on the riders as well.
Don't forget the quicksilver rapier on a hero with Individual movement too.
Some Red goblin scouts are cheap (155 per reg) and nimble, should be good for protecting flanks. His fliers can be flanked, they aren't individuals, and these are Me 4+.
You've also got no cavalry anyway (fast/long-charge) which is bad for certain play scenarios.
Grok and other 250+ pt unique heros are often too expensive even for 2000 pt game IMO. At least, I'm not sure I'd have him AND the Giant.
Standard Bearers for Ogre's aren't bad for inspiring coverage and are pretty much the only SB's that pack a punch, if you're worried about Inspiring coverage.
You can also Ally with anyone since you're neutral. Shamblers backed with a surge caster (who often doubles as the inspiring source for the allies) absolutely wrecks flyers. Spin 360 and surge into their flank on the same turn. Or just straight up ally for another factions flying units to counter fire with fire for the classic flanking conga.
Also, it sounds retarded, but you can put the Red Goblin infantry on your front. They get charged, then on your turn you simultaneous charge with Large Infantry, and they get at least one ranged attack off before serving their purpose.
Kind of surprised the De6+ was giving you trouble when everything on your list had CS. You get a big enough flanking bonus though and De6+ crumbles.
>>46037548
This is hilarious in how unapologetic it is about being a notmordheim.
>>46037065
>>46037548
Man-sized wargames with strict phasing like this sickens me, to be honest.
>>46027591
Ophidians will probably be a better fit for fluffing as Abyssal humans.
>>46041973
Do you have a warband-level game that you do like?
>>46044413
Not overly. Haven't really tried much, to be honest. This is Not a Test is a post-apoc one with guns and stuff, and doesn't require you to do phases like this (uses 1-2 AP to move/shoot/whatever). It works out pretty alright.
Song of Blades and Heroes also has less restrictive activation but I haven't really tried it, only read the book.
Chain Reaction games are kind of neat but very weird compared to many other games. I think it has campaign-like rules somewhere, but I haven't looked into them. Core rules are free, though.
I imagine Savage Worlds Showdown could be decent if you wanted a few mans on a few mans because it has a decent ruleset in Savage Worlds, but that also has no rules for campaigns (afaik), unless you just used normal Savage Worlds (the RPG) rules.
I just think the strict phasing mechanic doesn't create very organic, visceral fights than man-to-man fighting would actually be like and leads to weird situations where you, say, want to shoot and then move but you can't. Some might say that is a feature or a benefit, though.
But this isn't the appropriate topic for warband-level games in general - you should make a thread if you need recs for those.
>>46039847
Thanks for the advice.
>Grok and other 250+ pt unique heros are often too expensive even for 2000 pt game IMO. At least, I'm not sure I'd have him AND the Giant.
I'd normally agree, but I make an exception for Grok because he is such a beatstick and has a psychological effect for my opponents as well.
>Shamblers backed with a surge caster (who often doubles as the inspiring source for the allies) absolutely wrecks flyers.
Agreed, my Undead have few issues dealing with flyers.
>>46038461
Just because the factions allow you to bring your WHFB army across doesn't mean that everything is 1:1 in the fluff.
>>46037065
What niche does Star-Struck City fill that isn't covered by other games?
>>46049021
What niche does your mother fill that isn't covered by other womans?
Anyone got a link to those tech elves someone made? I really feel the urge to gunline. How are they for balance?
>>46050112
I seriously doubt that you've ever filled any woman's niche.
>>46050795
;_; oi, thats not nice
>>46049021
Being KoW ported over to a skirmish ruleset
>>46050145
Ironleaf Kin
http://vb.manticforum.com/forum/kings-of-war/general-discussion-aa/235286-homebrew-army-ironleaf-kin
Who knows.
So I'm getting into tabletop wargames a bit late.
Any tips on not killing my back? Reaching over and moving stuff. Measuring distances. It hurts like a bitch and leaves me stiff.
I was thinking about a thin rod up from the center of my units, grab rotate & move.
A custom ruler maybe? Two sliding rods off a 2-foot ruler that reach down to the table.
>>46052745
Why not just get a heavy duty measuring tape that locks in place?
Do you play any vidya skirmish games, /kowg/?
Personally, I played March of War (servers closed) and Dogs of War (pretty ded, with ~70 players still going, usually 0-3 online. Devs are working on Bloodbowl and abandoned it).
Currently im playing Dominions, but its not the same
>>46056947
Closest I play (that I can immediately think of) is like RTSs maybe by like Relic (Dawn of War, Company of Heroes). Or Total War.
Dominions is good stuff, too.
That uh American Civil War Gettysburg game done by that total war modder is supposed to be pretty decent, and it might be similar.
Ok now the Warpath Firefight rules were actually updated @ https://www.dropbox.com/s/hyc72fvva6e3dmf/Firefight%20V%201.3.pdf?dl=0
changelog:
'The following changes have been implemented in Version 1.3 on the 15th May
Fixed various typing errors.
Change to Heavy Firepower to split up its effects into two special rules
Addition of Marauder, Asterian and Veer-Myn armies.
Added extra rules to cover multi storey terrain.
Clarified when you place objectives.
Clarified disengage and terrain.
Cleaned up the suppression token rules.
Clarified vehicles in combat and exploding in terrain.
Updated transport and open-topped rules to work with non vehicle transports.
Reduced the range on all flame thrower style weapons slightly.
Changed the flyer special rule to a vehicle type to make it more obvious what is a flyer.
Adjusted the limitations on army unit upgrades to be more specific.
Updated some Fight Values: Abberation, Plague Strider, Most Enforcers
Updated Assault Enforcers Acc value.
Changed Enforcers max squad size.'Does anybody even care about Warpath
>>46065574
I care about it enough to be interested in checking it out when it's done, but not enough to pay attention to the stuff they're changing now.
>>46065574
I'm interested, BUT-
1) I have no idea where it sits in terms of scale and detail to other games
2) It's got stiff competition from Infinity, 40k Firefight in terms of Sci-Fi shooter skirmish games I'm interested in
3) Still no idea how it's even related to Deadzone, mechanically.
Basically I have no idea what it's even supposed to be.
Kings of War? Oh it's WHFB one-page rules edition with supports for all WHFB armies plus some and lots of proper playtesting. Perfect, I get that.
Warpath? Something something 40k but very much not and it's being completely redone?
Deadzone? That DOA "totally not-necromunda" that really wasn't necromunda and nobody gave a shit and they're now completely rethinking it?
There's so little out for Warpath and Deadzone and anything that isn't KoW or Dungeon Saga right now I find it kind of hard to care, admittedly.
>>46065574
Sure, but the problem is that they don't advertise it that well and nobody has armies for it like they do for Warhammer Fantasy. Especially not on rectangular team bases.
>>46066346
>1) I have no idea where it sits in terms of scale and detail to other games
I gotta' say, I'm only interested in either Warpath Mass Battles and maybe Deadzone, but probably not.
I really like the way they're streamlining everything. It takes away the clunkiness that was present in 40k. The only reason they're making Firefight is because a bunch of ex-GW players wanted a Not-40k scale game.
>>46067087
I've got about 6000 points of chaos space Marines I haven't used since fifth edition because the rules became ludicrously expensive and weren't that good to begin with. I still love the models and parts of the lore, so I will definitely be interested if I can get use from the models again for a system that streamlines the rules as well Kings of War.
>>46037065
>>46037548
Is it just me or is Large utterly crippling? It's movement rules means that Large units are going to find it nearly impossible to maneuver through terrain and even harder to actually make melee with the enemy.
>>46037548
Mordheim with generic fantasy rules. Nice, is this official?
>>46037548
My big issue with this is that Mantica has a LOT more healing than Warhammer Fantasy does. You can get it a lot in many armies. However there is no provision for said healing being used outside combat.
In addition, there is the option for your guy to have surrendered to the enemy rather than having been taken out but the injury table doesn't really reflect that unless every army responds to 'I surrender' with 'Apply baseball bat to his knees until he stops moving'
That and I feel like some of the skills go too far. Being able to buy off 'reload!' more or less makes Rifles the best option in the game as it's only 1 skill to negate reload! or 2 skills to get as good with the bow as the other guy was with his gun.
They should likely prevent people from buying more than 1 rank of Crushing Strength/Piercing on top of the weapon. Or just prevent it being bought in general and make it tied to the weapon.
>>46065574
>Does anybody even care about Warpath
I didn´t really care about until recently, when I figured out it could be played in 6mm. So now I got a reason to break out all my epic minis.
>>46065574
I care about it, and I will give it a try once it's finished. I can't be bothered to playtest it though and I hope 40k-fags don't have to much of an influence on it.
The original ideas for the rules were pretty good and the video about the alpha of this version, released on bow, looks promising.
>>46070092
Nope.
>>46071302
How many minis are needed/how are they based?
I have quite a few Epic marines and nids. Not complete armies, but several dozen total bases. Based on the 40x15 (I think) default bases though.
I've just painted and multibased some abyssal dwarf decimators.
They are based as troops, but as you can see the rocks are aligned so that it looks coherent for a regiment as well.
I know they aren't 50%+1 models to the base but I don't mind, the bases don't look sparse or lazy to my eye. What do you guys think? Would you be in the least miffed if I brought pic related to the table?
>>46073099
Are they supposed to be 4x4 with 125 frontage? If so, looks fine to me.
>>46073144
5 wide x 4 deep with 100mm frontage. The base sizes are correct for the unit.
The squares on the mat are 1"/~25mm squares.
>>46073197
If the frontage is correct it looks fine to me.
I thought 4x4 because those guys look huge. How can you even fit them 5 wide?
>>46028596
>>46028572
Those don't look half bad, the sword of the bottom pic is a bit too thick and the horse part is too bulky/human waist too skiny, but a solid release. We know the price?
>>46073249
Also I typo'd, since 4x4 large base would be 100 frontage. 5x4 with a large base is 125. I'm dumb.
>>46073249
>How can you even fit them 5 wide?
Their feet do fit on a 20mm base, but they are very bulky across the arms and shoulders. That alone would make it tricky, but then the guns would make it a nightmare.
>>46073478
Well, and this is just my opinion, but the base looks "full", and that's kind of my opinion on whether a unit looks good or not. I do 1:1 models to base because I'm building ratkin, but what you have looks fine to me, I wouldn't even comment on them being far less than they should be, because they cover the space.
>>46051884
>>46050145
They are not bad but not great. They shoot very well but they've got some Skornery.
Their main Phalanx unit also has Thunderous Charge, which it won't get to use that much if it's guarding against cavalry.
The extra elf mobility doesn't mesh well with Reload and they are even more expensive than normal elves.
They likely require a careful hand to make work.
>>46071302
Wait, it can?
>>46018048
Total war warhammer is getting its own books in April..
>>46017990
It also works for a wargame for a lot's of other settings, like The Traitor Sons trilogy (good books btw if you like Knights, monsters and magic) you can take the Forces of Nature and KoM or even basilea and you have the first books great battle easy.
>>46065574
I'm interested in the mass warfare ruleset, but I have my concerns. The way suppression and nerve works is a big one for me.
>>46078265
Hopefully they listen to complaints as much as they did during the KoW 2E playtesting. While based Alessio may not be designing it, Mantic has a good chance to make an unfucked 40K, especially if they release an equivalent of Uncharted Empires.
>>46078442
I need to play more test games, but the initial reaction is "Why shouldn't I just load up on cheap units and Suppressing weapons? Its easier to kill units through suppression than real damage."
That, and the rules as is favor minimum unit sizes.
>>46037065
>>46037548
so sorri for who made this, much time spent for nought
So /tg/, I want to make an Ogre army out of my WHFB ogres, and I have some questions.
I'd like to center my list around an Ogre Legion. Obviously a unit that large and expensive needs to be given a Magic item. What works best? I was thinking Wine of Elvenkind for nimble, as a nimble Legion seems like it would pack a serious punch. Or would the WoE be better on a unit of Not-Ironguts, as they are half as wide and don't bump into as much stuff when they turn?
>>46079495
Depending on how much terrain is going to be on the board then the thing that lets you charge over it without penalty could be pretty good. Last thing you want is for you massive cock of a unit to get knackered by terrain.
Can't remember what it's called, Maccwars Caterpillar or something.
>>46079690
Like >>46079690 said the potion of the Caterpillar is a good idea, but another good option is Orcsbain's Amulet of Thorns (phalanx) so that knights won't give you any trouble from the front.
>>46079495
>Legion
>Nimble
Nimble is best reserved for units with smaller footprints.
>a unit that large and expensive needs to be given a Magic item
You're thinking with WHFB logic. In KoW that 20-40 pts on a magic item can be better served in a more expensive escort unit.
In this case though, I agree with the caterpillar potion since it's probably going to be first in to charge, depending on your list.
Phalanx artifact isn't a bad idea but it might be better to take allies to get some phalanx units.
>>46081492
>>a unit that large and expensive needs to be given a Magic item
You're thinking with WHFB logic. In KoW that 20-40 pts on a magic item can be better served in a more expensive escort unit.
Well, you do get better value on bigger units- a unit with 30 attacks is going to get more use out of elite or crushing strength, for example, than one with 15.
>>46081492
Basically, what this guy said
>>46082798
If I don't give them Nimble or Caterpillar, I'd be giving them +1 to hit or Crushing Strength to use my 36 attacks most effectively.
>>46082866
imo blessing of the gods or chant of hate is the way to go. Not too expensive, but with 36 attacks will do a lot of work.
>>46081203
Amulet of Thorns does a lot of good work for me when I play. A lot of Phalanx units already lack a good def score so being able to get a high def AND Phalanx you can devour cavalry alive.
>>46065574
The Supression and Nerve rules are much better in this than the version of the mass battle I saw.
Got a tourney tomorrow, 4 2000 point games with 20 players. It's going to be a relatively casual event, but I'll post the results here. I'll try to take some pictures as well.
I have doubts about how I'll perform but I suppose that it'll be a good learning experience if that's the case.
New KoW FAQ is out.
Some important stuff in there.
Hills are now assumed only height 1
>>46091079
That's a pretty big change, honestly. Bot being able to hide behind hills as easily really alters deployment in a massive way.
Although, I'd still probably houserule some hills as being other heights if only for variation.
>>46076688
That's a fantastic idea. The concept of the Wild in that series is awesome.
I might have to do that now.
>>45999072
Go to Mantic's website and look in the Mantic Point section. For 30 points you could get a handful of tools, a couple of 5-man sprues of dwarves/elves/undead, and/or 1-2 exclusive characters.
>>46015137
Real talk though. I loved reading the Kings of War setting intro and realizing that the entire world fell to shit was because of a horny elf overreacting to a girl asking if they could just be friends.
What the shit Calisor.
>>46023681
>Dinosaur and a pirate
I can't argue with that.
>>46031899
I really liked that part of the Varanguar fluff.
But what the fuck is their god if he isn't an Abyssal? That would mean he's been around since the time of the Shining Ones.
>>46093010
He could be a god like Winter, just simply evaded being put into the abyss by hiding, which ended up in his decline before the Varangur found him.
>>46092950
I am convinced that elves always ruin everything. In every setting ever, it's always an elf acting like a complete child that fucks the entire world forever.
LotR, Warcraft, Warhammer, the list goes on.
>>46093010
He was a forgotten entity. Similar to hashut in WHFB.
>>46092950
What got me is that fact that for someone apparently so much in love he sure wasn't going to waste any time keeping it in his pants after she died.
>>46095469
Thats elves for you. Act like a douche, then completely forget you just fucked the whole world and learn nothing.
>>46097713
Maybe that's because Elves live so long. Humans don't have time to fuck up so often. So they are quicker studies than Elves. They need to do everything a few times over before they understand how shit works. But by the time they reach a certain age they've learned enough to pass as wise. A 20 year old elf looks like an retarded toddler trapped in an adult body though.
>>46092564
IT even states that it's just a rule of thumb, of course you can have bigger hills still.
How do goblins normally fare? They seem ok, but their special rule is a complete detriment, unlike most armies, so what do they get to make up for that?
>>46103841
Cheap.
>>46090427
Thanks Anon!
Looking forward to it
>>46103841
Yeah they're the only army so far with a definitively negative special ability.
Cheap is a HUGE advantage though. For example, their war machines are probably the most cost effective in the game, and your plans can actually include unit losses without failure unlike some armies (eg Ogres are the exact opposite having too few units). Straight up flooding the field with cheap units is a legitimate strategy. Only other army that can really do that is Undead, and they're not as good at it.
>>46103841
they can fill a heavy ranged niche, due to how damn cheap their units are, you can end up with a lot of bows and war machines. They also have some really excellent cavalry and you can really mess with enemy cavalry by taking legion upon legion of spears, but don't expect a lot from your troops and don't bother with a combat hero, just stick with inspiring banners and wizards
>>46105278
Ratkin can put out slave regiments for less than the cost of most armies' cheapest troops. I'm planning on fielding 3 regiments of them in my army I'm building. Mostly going to be represented by the one pose clanrats. They will be last to be (re-)painted.
>>46106779
Aren't slaves * though so they count as troops? Whereas you still get the unlocks for goblins and it's only 25 more points for a horde of equivalents
>>46106816
That is true. Though Ratkin core aren't exactly expensive either.
>>46106862
Ratkin can take slaves in cheap hordes and legions, too, I should add, for very cheap. But the advantage Goblins have is that they can take hordes for army credit. Slaves are the only legion ratkin can have.
Is there actually a reason someone would take a biggit or a king? looking at them they really aren't going to give you anything useful
>>46107053
Yeah, I don't think they seem worth it. Flaggits are among the best source of inspiring in the game IMO, being super cheap and yellow bellied really not being much of a downside on something you want to keep out of combat anyway.
>>46107138
>>46107053
That's a bit sad. Back in WHFB, my favorite tactic for my goblins was to spam hero and lord choices. They were usually aggressively costed for what they did, and you'd be surprised how good a goblin boss on a wolf is when he has seven other buddies just like him all zooming in on your flank from differing angles.
>>46107053
Actually looking at it now, a King with bow is not the worst ranged option- 5 attacks at 4+. Not utterly useless in melee, either. Compared to a KoM bowman troop, not too shabby.
>>46100588
It bothers me that something that small could ever be considered a hill. That's about five feet high.
>>46107736
That's pretty much how high most hills I see on tables are though. Obviously bigger ones rule them as bigger.
r8 the list i've wanted to play for ages?
I feel like it's pretty weak at the moment, but stuggling to pinpoint how.
>>46065574
Asterians are over the top. They need to adjust Shield values and how it works with Shield Projection.
Just had a tourney today. 4 games, 2000 points, objectives were Invasion, Loot, Pillage and then Kill.
Rankings were based on most wins with victory points deciding ties. Unfortunately a few dropped out last minute and we only got 11 players.
Results:
1. Undead (undefeated)
2. Abyssal Dwarfs (Bensome, from Direct Misfire)
3. Undead
4. Ogres (Fishbat, me)
5. Undead
6. Abyssal Dwarfs
7. Abyssals (Spoon from Direct Misfire)
8. Dwarfs
9. Orcs (had to leave before final round, so could have place higher potentially)
10. Kingdoms of Men
11. Ogres
Pic is from the end of my first turn against Bensome's Abyssal Dwarfs.
>>46110956
Here is the list I brought.
Lessons from the tourney:
>Grokagamok
A lot of folks opined that was too expensive for 2000 point games. I think they're mistaken.I kept him in the second line, so that he was protected from shooting and so that he could respond to where my opponents placed their big threats along my front line.
>Red Goblin Scouts
Indispensable for their utility and mobility. Even when they can't take advantage of their speed they are nice chaff, since they are quite cheap and wide while also being nimble.
>Ogre Shooters
Did okay as a regiment, but the 80 extra points for the horde seems great value to make them reliable and I'd only ever run them as hordes from now on if I had the models. Plus add in the +1 to hit magic item for cheesy goodness.
>The Red Goblin Blaster
A bold choice, taking it will put hair on your chest. You can run it in the front line if your opponent has negligable shooting and it's not sitting right next to your units, otherwise it does fine in the back responding to pesky flyers or in the second line responding to breakthroughs in your frontline. It likes hiding behind terrain, but this also makes it tricky to get it exactly where you need it. One of the main advantages is the psychological effect: other players will adjust their entire flank around this guy, even more than they would against heavy cav, and that alone can make it worth the measly 65 points. Definitely not for WAAC lists, but a lot more viable than I thought.
>Boomers
Great flexibility, but the regiment only seemed to be getting a few points of damage here and there. The short range makes it a poor choice to counter chaff (which present a real problem to Ogres) but 9 attacks aren't enough to deal with proper units. I'm thinking go horde or go home, like with the shooters.
>Ogre Warriors and Berserkers
They were a fine front line. As good as my tactics made them.
>cont.
>>46111159
>Red Goblin Biggit on Fleabag
The other Ogre player brought a couple of these and I was impressed with how easily they could weave their way to somewhere that they couldn't be seen and force nerve checks with its 3 arrow shots. Or sometimes even just being interference to prevent enemies from multicharging if the Biggit was a little pround of the target unit. Not amazing, and not to be taken to inspire your red goblin scouts, but I thought a single one might have some potential.
>Siege Breakers
The other Ogre player brought these too. I haven't made up my mind on these guys. They look great on paper with their many high CS attacks and big shields, but any can openers with speed 6+ will tear them a new arse and they are very juicy war machine targets.
>Giant
Love him. CS3 makes him a good can opener, the base is narrow enough that he can join most multi-charges and squeeze through gaps, Strider means that he can fill the section of the line that will cross the difficult terrain, SP7 means he can get the drop on most units, and the high nerve makes him surprisingly resilient.
>>46111244
Pic of a quite nice abyssal dwarf army.
>>46111334
Will we get some video s out of it?
>>46111362
Sorry anon, these were time-limited games and some games were a race to finish turn 5. There was no way I could record enough for a batrep.
The Direct Misfire guys said that they will make some sort of video about it, though.
>>46109267
I like the Exemplar Forsaker, for such a small footprint you will give your opponent a headache of dealing with a flyer.
I also like the shooting, bowmen should be able to deal with chaff and the ballistas are very cheap and good at putting hurt on tough enemies with low nerve like Soul Reavers.
The all cav approach is neat but it makes it risky if you don't get your charges. Armies like Orcs can do pull this off because they have CS1 and TC1, rather than TC2, and so are less dependent on a charge. If you find that all those brotherhood regiments aren't getting TC often enough or aren't lasting through grinds then you could swap one or two for Order of the Abyssal Hunt, which drop a De and a TC for a CS, fury and +1 rout value.
>Devoted on horse
Heal 2 for 75 points is not good value.
If you want to keep the Devoted, you should give her the Inspiring Talisman and either Heal (4) or Lightning Bolt (3), and then drop an Exemplar Adjutant.
If you want both Adjutants then perhaps drop the devoted and give one of them the Healing Amulet.
>>46112054
It also occurs to me that you have the option of dropping an Adjutant and upgrading a Brotherhood regt. to a Redemption Regt. since it has inspiring.. And you can give the crushing strength item to a cavalry unit to make it a better can opener/fight better in subsequent rounds, too.
>>46111334
I was thinking of running 2 hordes of ogre-type creatures myself, just because I like the models. I assume it works fine? They have a low break point, but can charge while waivered and obviously hit hard. Was thinking of putting them on the closest part of the wings, right on the flank of the normal regiments.
From what I can gather, and I only have a few games under my belt, there's not a huge difference in not always getting the charge with cavalry as long as you don't break from the initial charge? Since you can counter-charge and get all the benefits anyways? Or am I missing something
>>46112647
>you can counter-charge and get all the benefits anyways?
You don't get Thunderous Charge when you counter-charge.
>>46112647
You lose thundering charge if you took combat damage (disordered).
>>46112647
What everyone else said about TC (Thunderous Charge).
TC is generally lower cost compared to CS for this reason.
Trying to remember if there were any cavalry without TC, that aren't ranged units?
Mawbeasts, (kind of) werewolves, at least.
>>46112739
I think you technically can if they fail to inflict a single point of damage on you?
>>46112910
Yes, you're right.
>>46112944
>>46112910
I've had that happen with ranged units before.
There is something rather hilarious about seeing Rifle troops fail to take a single point of dmaage, then just unload back into the other guy.
>>46112910
>>46112944
Seen it happen before.
>>46112739
>>46112745
>>46112804
Aha! Thanks, we must have missed the bit about being disordered if you take damage. Now that I see it, it makes a lot more sense.
Feel like we need another survey now that things have been rolling for awhile.
http://strawpoll.me/7123807
>>46092793
Is pretty funny to think what armies from other universes fit KoW ones.
Mordor is Goblins, and giving it allies like KoM for Harads/Easternmen, Orcs for uruk-hai or ogres for more kinds of trolls is a good way to translate it.
Anyone on this board play Dreadball? Picked the set up recently, anyone know of decent rules tutorials?
So a Warhammer army idea I've had but never got around to was a Beastmen army set in Ind, with tigermen for Gors, elephantmen for Minotaurs, monkeymen for Ungors, etc. Can the Herd list cover it?
>>46114222
>http://strawpoll.me/7123807
no 'none, just here for the comfy bread' option
>>46117133
Easily. The Herd is one of the armies which is 1:1 with its WHFB equivalent. The problem is finding models for that entire army.
>>46117596
Follow up, is the Herd any fun? Why I never got around to it was because how bleh Beastmen were, especially what you had to run to stand a chance in 8th.
>>46118342
They still are very much focused on mobility and outmaneuvering other armies ss they can ignore difficult terrain.
>>46118342
All the armies in Kings of War are balanced, even "Beastmen". They're an army based around being highly
mobile and punching your enemy in their unprotected flanks to wipe them out before they have a chance to fight back. You flee easily, but they're fast enough and pack enough of a punch to make that worth it.
>>46118342
they all have thunderous making them a REALLY hard hitting army if you manage to outmaneuver your enemy and make a flank or god forbid, a rear
>>46112054
>Heal 2 for 75 points is not good value.
Deep down I knew this, I just really liked my mini of it.
Seems to me like a lot of races mages just aren't worth it, really.
>>46118729
ogre one is fucking value considering his passive, orc one is ok for the same reason but that requires more points invested, goblin one is fuck all for more lightning and is great and all of the undead ones are pretty much mandatory cause gotta get dat surge
>>46118805
Out of the armies I'm playing, Elves is pretty shitty for the same reasons as the Brotherhood one, Varangur magus is pretty iffy, Ogre seems okay but I didn't really have space for it in my gameplan.
The armies I'm putting together, Brotherhood and Night Stalkers both seem to have absolutely terrible and overcosted magic.
>>46118909
yeah, the banshee is a particularly egregious one at 135 for wind blast
>>46118729
Magic as a whole feels underdeveloped.
>>46119834
Yup more options is a must, at least a few more options like buffs debuffs.
>>46119834
>>46121582
Magic almost feels like they were so afraid of wizards getting out of hand that they didn't really want to do anything creative or interesting with it.
>>46119834
>>46123367
Eh I bet you haven't even used all of the spells.
>>46123367
That's pretty much it. A lot of people complained about it during the beta as they didn't want KoW to be like WHFB, so they toned down magic.
>>46123751
>>46123367
Frankly I'm just kind of glad we don't have any armies that are wholly reliant on apocalyptic spell rolls.
>>46123794
Oh yeah, 8th ed WHFB was the wrong way to do magic, and I'm not against KoW's method, I just think the implementation is lacking.
>>46123794
I agree, having lost entire games on the back of one magic phase going sour in WHFB 8th, I can certainly see why they'd want to avoid that. I just feel like they could've done a bit more with it as well. Come to think of it, that'd be a pretty nice expansion. More magic spells or general wizard focus for a campaign or non-core gameplay supplement.
>>46125716
>>46123367
Eh smaller scale Mantic game maybe, which they're doing plenty of. Frankly I think magic making THAT big an impact at KoW's scale is kind of bullshit for any setting.
>page 1 to page 8 in 30 minutes
I know it's a weekend, but /tg/ used to be a slower board.
>>46123367
>>46119834
I like the way magic works in KoW right now. All the spells fill a particular role and fit within the streamlined KoW style of having a simple rule with broad applications.
I wouldn't mind seeing a few more spells in the same vein, perhaps ones that play with the few persistant effects in the game like disordered or wavering, maybe a unit could be given stealthy for a turn, but I wouldn't want the number of the spells to double.
What kind of magic would you want in KoW to be 'Creative or interesting'?
>>46126816
>I know it's a weekend, but /tg/ used to be a slower board.
I wish we'd cooperate with the other chans more, since we've got a /tg/ outpost on most of them.
>>46126816
I'd say if new spells were given that it should be no more than 1/race. So that spellcasting happy groups don't suddenly get a shittone of new spells.
Maybe a spell that's cheaper than banechant but gives Thunderous Charge.
>>46127246
A supplement of one or two racial spells and a few race specific magic items would be nice, but it would be a bit hard to balance. If there was a community beta it might be great, but just making new spells and items might open a can of worms.
>>46127872
Knowing Mantic, they'd probably pop any ideas on the forums for a few months to let people test them.
>>46127943
I think it is a great idea. It could be packaged with a few new scenarios. I am having trouble brainstorming spells for each faction though. Any ideas?
Anyone else have the problem of wanting to get into this but being unable to decide between a half-dozen different factions that you want to play?
>>46131217
If it helps...
>>46114222
take a look
>>46131269
>>46131217
Less seen: Salamanders and Trident Realm and Twilight Kin are getting models.
Orcs are underplayed IMO and have great models.
Or are you interested in particular playstyles?
>>46131217
I would base it off of which models and theme you like the most. Similar to Flames, you can use any miniatures you want to play the game. Look through the pictures on the Mantic and GW websites and compare factions.
>>46131217
My solution was to get half a dozen different factions to play.
I regret nothing.
>>46132251
Last words before death.
He was found suffocated under a small mountain of sprues.
>>46132251
The absolute madman. Post pics.
>>46128063
if you can't think of any spells that need to be added it begs the question; do you really need more spells?
Sure more options are better, but adding stuff just for the sake of it rarely ends up benifiting anyone.
>>46134131
Here you go anon. My Varangur are too WIP to show anything, but the other 5 have some interest.
1/5- Kingdoms of Men (Not pictured are two cannons)
>>46134920
2/5- Elves
>>46134927
3/5 Undead
>>46134932
4/5 Abyssal Dwarfs.
The halfbreeds and immortals are clearly WIP. But also not shown are WIP blacksoul horde and second immortal regiment.
>>46134941
5/5 Ogres, not pictured are two red goblin scout regiments.
>>46111520
;_;
>>46135066
I showed you mine. Now, show me yours!
>>46135074
Different poster, but I'll dig mine out tomorrow (busy all today) and post my half painted army. Minus the stormvermin, which are being stripped.
>>46116902
Yup, britty gud as a system for single games using the exhibition match rules for variation, league rules are a bit of a disaster though, best ignored.
>>46075401
Turn all measurements to centimeters and base every team on a 25mm circular base (like in Epic) and you are pretty much good to go.
>>46072724
In warpath teams of infantry are 5 models, just like in Epic, so go for 4-5 infantry on regular bases (like here >>46136288 ), large infantry 2-3 miniatures on a base and vehicles doen´t need bases
I did 2 1000 points lists to try this out and I think I only used max 50 minis per side (about 10 bases per side)
>>45988336
Did my first tournament with list related, ended up mid range.
It lacks killy units but the double lich is a must. I'm gonna change the werewolves (one horde rather than one regiment), squat the archers and one necro in favour of an ally regiment of ogre shooters, and the skellies swordmen for wights.
>>46136259
>league rules are a bit of a disaster though, best ignored.
How so?
>>46127246
I think there's room for some new spells, but I feel mostly that the current ones need work with how they are implemented. Fireball is fine, Lightning is a little pricey, Surge and Banechant are fine. Windblast and Heal are the big ones, Windblast is ok but situational, and Heal's problem is that most models have access to such low levels. Heal(2-3) is pretty meh, especially when its the base spell for the wizard, like the Elf Mage.
My opinion is drop some of the spell costs, Lightning down to about 3 points for each point, half Windblast, and change Heal to return D3 per success instead of just one. D3 would be crazy with some of the big casters, but most cost as much as a full unit already.
>>46137059
>Brew of Sharpness on Horde of Skeletons
Whhhyyyyy? You know you could just take a Horde of Revenants for 5 pts cheaper, better Me, better De, better Nerve.
>Keen-eye on archers
Not as bad of a choice, but remember you can ally Empire of Dust and take Crossbow skeletons as well. I'd be amazed if any archers Lifeleech(2) investment ever paid off.
>All that Surge
I'm guessing you were able to surge across the board at lightspeed right from the opening?
Overall, I think fliers would rip this list apart save for the werewolves. So few units, no defensive response.
>>46139088
>I'm guessing you were able to surge across the board at lightspeed right from the opening?
Yeah, on average I can rape train any unit from across the board.
I actually charged a regiment of knights on t1 with my spears and send them routing, then I simply mowed the whole line.
Fliers aren't much of a problem due to the fact that I can litterally 360 and moonwalk in any face.
So far this list is merely weak against hard hitters like beastmen.
>>46139459
>Fliers aren't much of a problem due to the fact that I can litterally 360 and moonwalk in any face.
Plural, like two fliers v one horde, or flier with cavalry opposite. You can only respond to one at a time.
>I actually charged a regiment of knights on t1 with my spears and send them routing, then I simply mowed the whole line.
This is fucking hilarious.
You might consider a switch to Empire of Dust. Their Cursed High Priest is arguably more cost effective than Liches having no regen and surge(10) for 25 pts less.
The only thing you lose are non-shamblers, which you really aren't utilizing.
>>46139604
>>46139459
Also: Casket of the Damned with EoD.
10 pts for a discard 5 die boost to a surge spell on the unit with the casket.
If you're crossing the board in 1-turn, it might be more cost effective than the Tome of Darkness, splitting the boost across all units regardless of caster too.
>>46044035
I dunno, they have that snek cult thing, perhaps another being like the varangur god than isn't a celestial/shining/wicked one than is/likes snakes would fit them better. Also there is the other theme about undead, so perhaps a oroboros thing (cycle of life or some bullshit) than doesn't have anything to do with abysals is the most probable thing.
>>46134932
Late response, but what heads do you use for your Dragon Prince conversions? I wanted to pick up a few for conversions, but I have no idea what to use as heads.
>>46140974
I'm not saying that they're going to end up related to the Abyssals, just that it wouldn't be hard to use their list but fluff it as an Abyssal aligned kingdom by using demon models instead of snakemen.
postin my very /wip/ Varangur.
A second regiment of Bloodsworn (marauders), Thralls (frostgrave cultists), and a horde of warband not shown. Looking to have about 2500 points if I throw absolutely everything at the table, but building a specific 2000 point list.
>>46145505
I recognize those models? If you can, you should use the the Reaper Marsh Troll and Troll King. Design wise, they are very close to the GW river trolls and would look perfect with them.
>>46145840
There is a reaper troll king in there, in fact.
And I like my frog demon, I see him as being a mutated leader of the horde.
Working on it. This is all that's presentable, but there's more.
General army question: is a very knight heavy Kingdoms of Men army viable?
>>46147337
Yes, but you'd probably be better off running it as Brotherhood, for more cavalry options.
>>46030782
I...I could call people shills.
Would that make me cool?
