/hwg/ - Historical Wargames General
Mapuche Edition
Previous thread: >>45820460
Get in here, post games, miniatures, questions, whatever you like.
List of mini providers:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uGaaOSvSTqpwPGAvLPY3B5M2WYppDhzXdjwMpqRxo9M/edit
List of Historical Tactical, Strategic, and Military Drill treatises:
http://pastebin.com/BfMeGd6R
ZunTsu Gameboxes:
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/yaokao3h1o4og/ZunTsu_GameBoxes
/hwg/ Steam Group:
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/tghwg/
Games, Ospreys & References folders:
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/lu95l5mgg06d5/Ancient
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/81ck8x600cas4/Medieval
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/w6m41ma3co51e/Horse_and_Musket
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/vh1uqv8gipzo1/Napoleonic
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/bbpscr0dam7iy/ACW
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/bvdtt01gh105d/Victorian
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/b35x147vmc6sg/World_War_One
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/z8a13ampzzs88/World_War_Two
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/z8i8t83bysdwz/Vietnam_War
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/7n3mcn9hlgl1t/Modern
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/8tatre3vd10yv/Avalon_Hill
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/pq6ckzqo3g6e6/Field_Of_Glory
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/r2mff8tnl8bjy/GDW
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/whmbo8ii2evqh//SPI
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/ws6yi58d2oacc/Strategy_%26_Tactics_Magazine
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/lx05hfgbic6b8/Naval_Wargaming
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/s1am77aldi1as/Wargames
>Wargaming Compendium
http://www.mediafire.com/download/cghxf3475qy46aq/Wargaming+Compendium.pdf
>Saga
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/alj31go19tmpm/SAGA
>Black Powder
http://www.mediafire.com/download/o5x6blwoczojmfr/Black+Powder.pdf
>Bolt Action
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/n7jmdnlv1n0ju/Bolt_Action
>Hail Caesar
https://mega.nz/#F!s9xTTDpQ!CasEjRETeqZsJ5LOzYrJdg
>Warhammer Ancient battles 2.0
http://www.mediafire.com/download/uttov32riixm9b0/Warhammer+Ancient+Battles+2E.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ta7aj1erh7sap1t/Warhammer+Ancient+Battles+-+Armies+of+Antiquity+v2.pdf
>Warmaster Ancients
http://www.mediafire.com/download/cifld8bl3uy2i5g/Warmaster+Ancients.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/3emyvka11bnna1b/Warmaster+Ancient+Armies.pdf
>Advanced Squad Leader
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/d9x0dbxrpjg48/Advanced_Squad_Leader
>Impetus
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/28i9gevqws518/Impetus
>Ronin
http://www.mediafire.com/download/m8xke04pc3hne2k/Ronin.pdf
>Battleground WWII
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/cb83cg7ays4l1/Battleground_WWII
>By Fire And Sword
https://mega.co.nz/#!jxgCWTYD!FCp52DAqIUc-EM-TsRsWv7fB92nJ3kkzKsNcD_urI5Q
>Modelling & painting guides
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/7b5027l7oaz05/Modelling_%26_Painting_Guides
>Twilight 2000/2013 RPG
https://mega.co.nz/#F!C9sQhbwb!NVnD4jvUn5inOrPJIAkBhA
>Phoenix Command RPG
https://mega.co.nz/#F!b5tgXRwa!mzelRNrKPjiT8gP7VrS-Jw
>Next War (GMT)
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/eupungrg93xgb/Next_War
Desired scans :
Battlegroup supplements
Black Powder supplements
Rank and File supplements
Harpoon 3 & 4 supplements
Hail Caesar! Late Antiquity to Early Medieval Army List
Force on Force supplements
Hind Commander
At Close Quarters
War and Conquest
Germany Strikes!
12th of March in military history:
538 – Vitiges, king of the Ostrogoths ends his siege of Rome and retreats to Ravenna, leaving the city in the hands of the victorious Byzantine general, Belisarius.
1550 – Several hundred Spanish and indigenous troops under the command of Pedro de Valdivia defeat an army of 60,000 Mapuche at the Battle of Penco during the Arauco War in present-day Chile.
1689 – The Williamite War in Ireland begins.
1811 – Peninsular War: A day after a successful rearguard action, French Marshal Michel Ney once again successfully delayed the pursuing Anglo-Portuguese force at the Battle of Redinha.
1864 – American Civil War: The Red River Campaign begins as a US Navy fleet of 13 Ironclads and 7 Gunboats and other support ships enter the Red River.
1885 – Tonkin Campaign: France captures the citadel of Bắc Ninh.
1920 – The Kapp Putsch begins when the Marinebrigade Ehrhardt is ordered to march on Berlin.
1940 – Winter War: Finland signs the Moscow Peace Treaty with the Soviet Union, ceding almost all of Finnish Karelia. Finnish troops and the remaining population are immediately evacuated.
1942 – Pacific War: The Battle of Java ends with an Allied surrender to the Japanese Empire.
1947 – The Truman Doctrine is proclaimed to help stem the spread of Communism.
1993 – North Korea nuclear weapons program: North Korea says that it plans to withdraw from the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty and refuses to allow inspectors access to its nuclear sites.
1999 – Former Warsaw Pact members the Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland join NATO.
2003 – Zoran Đinđić, Prime Minister of Serbia, is assassinated in Belgrade.
It is 466 years since the Battle of Penco, fought between 60,000 Mapuche under the command of their toqui Ainavillo with his Araucan and Tucapel allies, and Pedro de Valdivia's 200 Spaniards on horse and afoot with a large number of yanakuna including 300 Mapochoes auxiliaries, defending their newly raised fort at Penco. It was part of the Arauco War.
After toqui Ainavillo's defeat in the Battle of Andalien he gathered tens of thousands of warriors from the Arauco and Tucapel regions to reinforce his depleted 15,000 man army for an attack on Valdivia's new settlement at Penco. Meanwhile Valdivia's force took eight days to construct a fort with a circuit of 1500 paces around his new settlement with a ditch 12 feet deep and wide. The excavated earth was used to fill in behind a wall of tree trunks driven into the earth above the ditch. It had three gates with well built bastions provided with artillery. Following the construction of the fort, Valdivia established the city of Concepción del Nuevo Extremo there on March 3, 1550. He also sent out patrols of his cavalry to call on the local Mapuche to submit to Spanish rule and provide food and service to the Spanish.
On March 12, Ainavillo's army of sixty thousand warriors advanced against the fort at Penco in three separate bodies with 5,000 skirmishers covering their advance and deployment. Once they had arrived they surrounded the fort on all sides but were not equipped to storm the deep ditch and the wall above it. They could only fire arrows and stones at the walls and shout threats leaving the Spanish safe inside. Inside the fort there was some discontent among the conquistadors at being so hemmed in and letting the Mapuche gain courage thinking the Spaniards were afraid of them by not fighting in the field where their cavalry had always been able to defeat these enemies.
Meanwhile Ainavillo's command that had been previously defeated at Andalien, was recognized by the Spaniards, and they also saw that the Mapuche divisions were separated from each other in a way that prevented them from aiding one another easily. Jerónimo de Alderete without Valdivia's permission picked out Ainavillo's division for a vigorous charge by his cavalry but the Mapuche had learned to close their ranks, presenting their copper tipped pikes and this repelled the Spanish charge with some injury to their horses leaving the Mapuche untouched.
Valdivia realized that Alderete had forced his hand and sent out Pedro de Villagra with the rest of the cavalry and directed the softening up of Ainavillo's command by volleys of their firearms and artillery. Jeronimo de Alderete and Pedro de Villagra then led a new charge that broke Ainavillo's disordered division at the first onslaught and they fled with the Spanish in pursuit, followed by the rout of the other two commands of Mapuche upon seeing the spectacle. Where the fleeing Mapuche entered terrain the cavalry could not follow the Spanish foot and Michimalonco's warriors followed killing many. The battlefield was littered with discarded weapons, 300 dead Indians killed in the clash with Ainavillo alone, according to Vivar, 4,000 was the total Mapuche loss after the pursuit, according to Lobera, and 200 were captured including many leaders of the army. Valdivia had the nose and one hand of each of the prisoners cut off and sent them back with a message that the Mapuche should now submit to Spanish rule.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/c21fjlui9gnhc17/Osprey+-+MAA+101+-+The+Conquistadores.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ay07xilhp4tybb7/Osprey+-+WAR+040+-+The+Conquistador+1492-1550.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/k0xb5q64tdbbs8m/S%26T+058+-+Conquistador.pdf
Looking for Billy Bones Workshop paper minis. I'm especially after the Dark Ages series, but some other would be nice too (I already have the ECW minis linked on this board). Anyone knows of a trove or something? Thanks in advance--
Tanklets
Thoughts impressions and a look at GMTs Next War series of games specifically looking at India-Pakistan
https://youtu.be/zPB6JyvqOZ4
I don't know if "Game Writing Anon" is around, but a couple of threads back he posted a quick rule set for Maori Land Wars and I had a look through it, did a couple of play tests with proxy miniatures and made some tweaks/edits. If you see this GWA, let me know what you think
Played a game of Blucher today, my Austrian's vs Ottomans.
Wasn't able to get a lot of photos but the game was a pretty inconclusive minor victory to me, 4 units of his broken towards his break point of 8 and 2 of mine broken against my BP of 7.
He was the defender and still held both of his objectives sadly so this only results in an 18-12 victory under the point system our club uses.
>>45947634
My elite cavalry was woeful all game, repeatedly beaten off by unprepared conscript Infantry. Fortunately my Infantry was able to dominate it's Ottoman counterpart in the centre of the board and break all the way through.
>>45942939
Just posted this in WIP but posting them here too because working on them for three months
12/64 Macedonian Phalangites (I have another four Argyraspides that are almost done)
>>45948825
Also finished about a dozen hoplites from a box of 40
All based on 3/4" fender washers+refrigerator magnets as a compromise between individual basing and multiple basing.
Planning to finish Macedonian army with some Peltasts, Companian Cavalry and Thessalian cavalry (and a couple of officers), then start working on a Persian force to fight against, using WAB, Hail Caesar, or To The Strongest
Fingers crossed that Victrix's TBA army is Persians
Did that one guy post the ACW papercraft stuff? I didn't check the thread before it died.
To keep this on topic, would Napoleonic systems like Blucher be reasonable to game ACW with?
>>45947718
There was a rules set on kickstarter a year or two ago by some polish company that focused on central Europeans vs ottoman empire. I think in like the 15th C or so. Does that ring a bell with anyone? Was it any good?
>>45949009
There's always a link to the old thread in the OP, but as it happens we've not seen them yet.
>>45943025
>Valdivia had the nose and one hand of each of the prisoners cut off and sent them back with a message that the Mapuche should now submit to Spanish rule.
Did the Mapuche submit?
>>45949743
Yes, they did. However, things did not go well for Valdivia:
Toward the end of 1553, the Araucanians revolted and fell on the over-extended Spanish forces in the south. One of the first signs that a big rebellion was building was the attack on the fort at Tucapel, where they managed to destroy the fortress on December 2, 1553. Valdivia was at Concepcion when he received notice of this event, and, believing that he could easily subdue the uprising, he hurried southward, sallying forth with only 40 men to stamp out the rebellion.
Near the ruins of the fortress Valdivia gathered the remnant of the garrison. He was ambushed before arriving to his destination and the Battle of Tucapel would be Valdivia's last. As each successive wave of attackers was wiped out or beaten off by the Spaniards, Lautaro sent another, until the entire Spanish company was massacred. The dreaded conquistador was captured still alive along with a priest by the Mapuche.
There are many versions of how Valdivia's killing took place. According to one source, an author contemporary with the events, the execution of Valdivia was personally ordered by Caupolicán, who had him killed with a lance and later his head, along with those of two of his bravest companions, were put on display. Another source writes that Valdivia offered as a ransom for his life the evacuation of all the Spanish settlements in the Mapuche lands and to give them large herds of animals, but this offer was rejected and the Mapuche first cut off his forearms, roasted and ate them in front of him before killing him and his accompanying priest.
The site of his death is close to the modern city of Valdivia named in his honor. Mapuche independence finally ended with the Chilean occupation of Araucanía between 1861 and 1883.
Atlanta 1864: Sherman Marches South (Osprey Campaign 290)
On September 3, 1864, Union Major-General William Tecumseh Sherman telegraphed the War Department in Washington, D.C., "Atlanta is ours, and fairly won.” The capture of the heart of the south the day before was the end of a fiercely fought four-month campaign in the Western Theater of the Civil War and caused jubilation throughout the North. More importantly for the Union cause, it propelled President Abraham Lincoln to reelection two months later. In this volume author James Donnell explores the entire Atlanta campaign, from Sherman's initial clashes with Joseph E. Johnston's army of Tennessee to the final Confederate resistance under General John Bell Hood. Perfectly complemented by specially commissioned artwork and detailed maps, this study takes the reader from the border of Georgia and Tennessee to Atlanta, with Sherman preparing for his famous March to the Sea.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/cv3yfwr281zl2mq/Osprey+-+CAM+290+-+Atlanta+1864.pdf
>>45949009
You mean this thread?
>>45820460
>>45948825
That the warlord or victrix stuff?
Also i'm told that warlords ancients stuff is quite small/slight, is this true anybody?
>>45951378
Those are warlord, victrix phalangites aren't out yet but I intend to get theirs too.
The warlord phalangites are smaller than warhammer/40k, but bigger than Lord of the Rings; the warlord/immortal hoplites (>>45948906) are super-small, about the same as LotR. They don't look bad next to each other, but you can't really swap heads or arms between the two sets (though I did use some of the immortal crests on the warlord phalangites)
Overall I'm happy with them, but I'm gonna compare them to victrix stuff once I get my hands on it, and might end up mostly buying victrix if I like them better. The biggest downside is the phalangites box only comes with 6 head varients and 4 poses, also the sculpt on the metal heads for the Argyraspides leaves a bit to be desired
I have a copy of the Blucher rules sitting around. I'm considering starting a French army as a side project, since it's not all that expensive to do 6mm. Only problem is no one to play with...
>>45946307
Oh cool, I'm always around these threads, I'll have a looksie, thanks for having a crack at it and going as far as doing some edits!
I still have to go through and make sure all the Maori words have the right macros etc. (Maori should have the line over the 'a' etc.)
OK I've had a read through and some very good rules and clarifications in there. Nice work! I will keep this as the current version!
I particularly like the on-table artillery rules, the updated cavalry rules, and the Intimidation rules. Very nice!
Also the Pa rules make a lot sense, I tend to abstract things for the sake of simplicity, and sometimes abstraction can get weird (like the off-map artillery and "attacking artillery" table)
For me the hardest part of this ruleset has been the balancing of the points in the army lists, and balancing the armies in general. Very difficult considering the asymmetry of the forces and tactics.
How did you find the balance? I notice you didn't change any of the points values, so I hope they were robust enough. Also the scenarios aren't very well playtested, but the ones we have played seem to work ok.
Thanks again for having a look at this ruleset, I'm glad someone is having a bit of an NZ wars bash out there, I've found this system to be a lot of fun. Fast, brutal and fairly simple.
Hopefully with any luck I'll actually get a chance to have a go with the Naval War rules tomorrow. If the stars align and the Cthulu doesn't swallow my time and/or both fleets, I'll write up a report later if anyone is interested.
>>45953615
those are some Veeeeery tidy naval minis anon. 1/1200?
Oh the mapuche, they're still fightin until this day. They burned a catholic church the other day, and a lot of wood industry trucks the past week.
Besides the history you told, the insurrection of 1598 it's a good tale: There's an awesome (and well done series) named "Sitiados" about that part of the Arauco war, pretty fun. If you want more you can read about Calfucura's kingdom and wars (the mapuche even expanded and colonized more parts of Argentina after Colombus), and the last wars against Chile, Quilapan it's a tragic but glorious figure of that era.
Rules-lite but intriguing RPG where the players are RAF pilots in the Battle of Britain
>>45949016
Do you mean By Fire and Sword? It's 17th century and I think we have it in the OP.
Newbie here who is reading a book about the early wargaming clubs from the 50's/60s. Any cool, beginner-friendly hex and counter games that mirror these early wargames?
>>45956259
PanzerBlitz is a classic.
>>45956259
Just pick up one of the old Avalon Hill titles used, they're pretty cheap.
Some of the better titles that aren't too complex and still hold up today are Afrika Korps, PanzerBlitz/Panzer Leader, and Squad Leader. If you're looking for something for a complete beginner, Battle for Moscow and Napoleon at Waterloo are time tested classics made specifically to introduce new players into wargaming that are both still in print today and are actually available for free professionally. GMT's hex and counter games tend to have smaller print runs since the already small wargame niche is being dominated by CDGs and Euro-esque games in the vein of COIN. One of their most popular series, Commands & Colors, is essentially a hex-and-counter game that just happens to use blocks, though it lacks the traditional features such as CRT. For traditional hex and counter they have some good ones for beginners like Clash of Giants and Red Winter. However, since they're both out of print they command higher prices than the Avalon Hill games. MMP also produces ASL to this very day, though it's not particularly suited for beginners.
>>45951867
I kno that feel bb ;_;
>>45949009
It was English Civil war, Not American, so more pike and shot.
Here's the link:
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/s432x6wd06r58/paper_minis
>>45944923
What's the easiest way to get into ASL?
I was looking at the starter kit 1
>>45954561
1/1800 AA War at Sea stuff. I've yet to repaint them unfortunately, so currently they're just blutacked to their bases. I really liked the pill shaped bases that GF9 made for the actual War at Sea game, so I decided a long time ago I wanted mine shaped that way too.
>>45957976
Yeah the ECW minis were posted, but the poster said he also had the ACW minis, and he was willing to post them if requested.
3-up previews of Gripping Beast's upcoming plastic late romans.
>>45959171
Late Romans best Romans.
>>45951867
Make another army, play solo.
>>45959183
My dick, these are awesome. Will be awesome for LotR too.
>>45955997
What a wonderful concept. Starting out by writing a goodbye letter is an interesting way of getting into character.
![VX0009-5[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/CokaJw0.jpg "VX0009-5[1].jpg")
I went and bought myself some Old Guard Grenadiers by Victrix and am now coming to realise I have way too many, so I'm probably going to sell half (20) of them.
I thought I'd ask first if people would even be interested in buying them in the first place, and if so would they be worth more painted or unpainted? I'm decent enough at painting, but not great.
>>45959836
I can only speak for myself, but when I buy stuff second hand I prefer it to be unpainted or stripped.
>>45959836
Defo unpainted.
>>45959171
Fellow second from the right looks smug as can be.
>>45949009
I'll upload them once I get back to my computer, which might be a day or two since it's currently a drinking Holliday where I'm at.
>>45959836
The truth is they will be worth more painted, but you will have less people willing to buy them.
>>45959854
>>45959898
>>45962130
All right guys, thanks for the input. Think I'll strip them and put them up for about a tenner.
So, played my first game of Bolt Action last night. Notable things that happened
>Finland vs. Japan, the least sensible matchup that could possibly happen
>Kaukapartio recon squads are wonderful and my favorite
>Simo Hayha killed by a shot from a light anti tank gun while he was in Hidden Deployment
>I can't figure out much reason to use a mortar.
>>45966174
>>I can't figure out much reason to use a mortar.
smoke
>>45959836
I just can't understand the idea of "too many".
It doesn't make any sense to me. I know what the words mean, but when you put them together like that they just turn into gibberish.
Can a scale be too big?
>>45968285
Serious answer:
Yes. Very easily.
Matching size of battle/miniatures/ground scale/timescale and the like is all really important to creating a good game. If it's trying to have any sort of 'simulation' elements anyway.
>>45968285
Hey it's the guy who made those Grande Armee scenarios where you need like a 20' square board.
>>45968285
I wish I could play tabletop with some 1:100 .jp PlaMo (Plastic Models). But I would need a warehouse to do so.
Plus unless I use tanks and other stuff it wouldn't strictly be /HWG/
>>45957992
Starter kit 1.
hell go up to the collection of media fires we have in OPs post and go to the ASL folder and grab the SK rules and use VASSL to try try playing it through that before buying.
it can get pretty expensive pretty quick
Reccomendation for high quality 6mm buildings ?
I'm thinking of getting into this scale and seems like buying pre made buildings is best from a time:benefit standpoint. That said, I'd like to keep the project relatively inexpensive.
So, what's a decent trade-off between quality and price? Timecast looks really nice but is expensive, especially when you factor in shipping to the USA. They seem to be the top search result.
BTW most interested in eastern/central Europe though 1914 frontier battles in France are somewhat appealing as well.
A simple wargame covering recent events in Ukraine
>>45970105
You get what you pay for. I went for timecast. They are still in the post! I am now looking at their roads and rivers just because it makes life easy.
Actually, for roads and rivers would a load of that shower sealant do the job and be cheaper? Just spread it on some fabric and color it?
>>45973134
I use acrylic caulk for roads in 20mm. Works pretty good, just make sure it says it's paintable on the tube.
I recommend making a guage for making the width appx equal. Just take some card or wood and cut out a notch 1/8 deep as wide as the road.
>>45970105
If not Timecast, look at Leven. Really good quality, cheaper. Image related.
No idea about US based companies other than Gamecraft, and they're more in for WW2 onwards.
>>45976344
those are amazing!
>http://www.levenminiatures.co.uk/
>>45956259
>a book about the early wargaming clubs from the 50's/60s
What book would this be?
>>45959171
that hand-painted trim is redonk
>>45979123
These are 3ups, so...
Hey guys USMC guy from a couple threads ago here.
Researching what I'm going to want for my Iwo Jima Japs now, looking like mostly just riflemen and some light support weapons like MMG's and mortars.
Question I mainly had was what kind of tanks did the Japs have at Iwo Jima? From what I can find, they only had one small unit with Baron Nishi, consisting of Chi Ha's and Ha-Go's.
Warlord has a bundle that has everything I'm wanting except it also comes with a tank, a Japanese Type 97 ShinHoTo Chi-Ha tank. Basically a Chi Ha but not complete garbage. I'm just confused on whether this would be the version Nishi would've had, or if he would've had the older model with the 57mm infantry gun on it.
All I can find is this single pic, which claims this tank was dug in on hill 382. If it's legit, this would make the bundle perfect for what I need.
Also, I'm guessing lack of fuel and the insane bombardment going on would mean almost all Jap tanks were dug in, but would it be that odd to have a Japanese force with one of these actually driving around for Iwo Jima?
>>45980649
the Chi Ha started undergoing the refit from the 57mm to the 47mm in 1942.
In 1944, the 26th Tank Regiment was reassigned to the defense of Iwo Jima On July 18, 1944, while en route from Pusan to Iwo Jima, the ship Nisshu Maru transporting the regiment was struck by torpedoes fired by submarine USS Cobia (SS-245). While only two soldiers were killed, all 28 of the tanks in the regiment were lost.
Nishi briefly returned to Tokyo to obtain replacement tanks, and eventually received 22 of them.
its probabley safe to say that the tanks he was given were refited models with the 47mm. tanks already on the homeland would have been the first to receive the upgrades.
also if you have ever been to iwo jima you would know how insane it would be to drive a small tank around on it. the american shermans being much bigger and having better track displacment had a very heard time getting around on the island as it was. i dont see the smaller japanese tanks being driven around that easy
all supposition of course. as almost no records remain of Col Nishis time on iwo, and so few japanese prisoners taken its hard to know why some things were done.
and another pic of a type 97 on iwo. thats definatley got the 47mm on it. The 57mm was a much shorter barrel addition under the barrel. kinda like how the Hungarian Zyrini has the addition under its 105mm
>>45980649
Marine Tank Battles in the Pacific cites that the 26th Tank Regiment that Nishi commanded lost their whole contingent of tanks to a submarine attack, but they recieved 22 light replacements.
http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/history2.htm states that there were 11 Type 97 Medium Tanks and 12 Type 95 Light Tanks. It does also state that of the Type 97's, "Some were Type 97-Improved Medium Tanks".
With that in mind, I think you'd be fine having either type present on the island. The Improved type was in production from 1942 onwards in any case, so it would hardly be anachronistic to have one show up on Iwo Jima.
With regards to having them driving around Iwo Jima, Nishi felt the topography of the island made tanks maneuvers too difficult, so he ordered at least some of his tanks to be placed in hull defilade. The site above says:
>He (Nishi) inspected Iwo Jima and understood there was no room for the movement of the tank in this small rocky island. He ordered to dig in the tanks and intended to use them as pillbox.
However, the same site cites several attacks by Japanese tanks on Iwo, including them emerging from caves or moving to defend the airfield. Wiki says that "some" of the tanks were used as pillboxes,
>>45980649
>would it be that odd to have a Japanese force with one of these actually driving around for Iwo Jima?
It would during a US invasion.
I always imagine the japs using lots of mobility and tanks at the start of the war, capturing large portions of china, pacific, etc. And then changing tactics to defensive once the US started attacking. Dig everything in, draw the enemy into killzones, etc. Not a lot of room for maneuver warfare with tanks imo (although I do remember one scene in The Pacific where this happens, I'm not sure how accurate that was or if it was a one off) There was no "counter-offensive" it was all about causing the maximum casualties on the US forces to slow them down and wear out their fighting spirit.
If you really want to take tanks, just go for the normal Chi Ha and Ha-Go. The Chi Ha really is the ubiquitous Japanese tank.
>>45981423
another pic of a type 97. note the shorter 57mm barrel and arrangement
>>45981472
>There was no "counter-offensive" it was all about causing the maximum casualties on the US forces to slow them down and wear out their fighting spirit.
They did try counter-offensives from time to time; it was just that they were outnumbered and in the open they were exposed to the massed firepower of ships off-shore. The Japanese certainly maintained an offensive spirit right through the war; the general on Iwo Jima had to forbid his soldiers to launch Banzai charges against the beach-heads because he wanted to maximize casualties, and in China, where Japan didn't face the same issues of overwhelming enemy firepower, they kept trying to take to the offensive to knock China out of the war. In 1944 they undertook Operation Ichi-Go which was a major offensive involving half a million men and 800 tanks, and even in 1945 they tried to stay on the offensive.
If Operation Downfall had gone ahead the Japanese had plans for a massive counter-attack on Kyushu. Mind you, the Americans estimated they'd have 7 "Fat-Man" plutonium implosion bombs stockpiled by then (they'd planned to hold back on strategic bombing if the Japanese didn't surrender after Nagasaki) and they fully planned to use them as tactical nukes in support of Operation Olympic on Kyushu. Which brought the Japanese back to the same problem: they were facing too much firepower.
>>45981998
you just can't outproduce the US in WW2, unless you're Russia. They're always slow to join wars, but when they do focus that massive landmass and population on a single conflict, you're pretty much fucked.
>>45982322
The Japanese knew it too; hence Yamamoto saying that he fully expected to run riot for 6 months to a year, then he had no prospects for victory after that. Which is more or less exactly what happened; Midway was about 6 months after Pearl Harbour, and Japan effectively lost the war right there. Even if they'd won Midway however, it's hard to ever see a scenario in which they would have won. When one nation has 10 times the industrial power of the other, and is effectively immune to attack due to distance, AND isn't reliant upon foreign imports, the outcome isn't really ever in doubt. From a military perspective at least. Vietnam shows that the war can still be lost for the larger nation, but Vietnam carries with it it's own set of issues, not least of which was that the Americans never had a clear objective. The same can't be said for the Pacific campaign; they had their sights firmly set on the objective right from the start: Tokyo.
>>45982322
>unless you're Russia
Where half the production came from the US via lend-lease?
>>45982498
It's debatable how much of an impact Lend-Lease had on Soviet production. Certainly without US food shipments there would have been a lot more hungry Soviet citizens, but due to the way the Soviets handled rationing, basically grading you on your contribution to the war effort, the net result would have been that more people on the bottom end starved as opposed to factory workers. Nonetheless given that US imports were often of high-calorie foodstuffs that the Soviets were deficient in, such as tinned meat, it undoubtedly had an impact.
Transport was the other big area where Lend-Lease played a major role. The Red Army used vast numbers of Lend-Lease trucks to transport materiel and troops during the war.
However the bulk of the actual weaponry and ammunition, including tanks, aircraft and artillery was built by the Soviets. Some did reach them from Lend-Lease but the majority was Russian-built. To say that half the production was a result of Lend-Lease is a bit of an overstatement. The actual percentage that Lend-Lease contributed is very difficult to determine, because Soviet historians ever since the war downplayed foreign assistance, whilst at the same time Western historians talked it up. Suffice to say that Stalin during the Allied invasion of France had issued strict orders to the Communists there not to try and seize control because he was worried about Lend-Lease being cut off. That indicates that it was still playing a major role for the Soviets.
>>45959171
Dude in the middle looks like he REALLY likes firing arrows.
>>45982945
Or he just likes letting it go.
>>45983082
Guess he can't hold it back anymore.
>>45983082
>>45983092
He loves making the other guy see the point.
Hi /hwg/ can I borrow your brains and eyes, I'm going though my Grandfather's box of Army stuff I got some great photos of his time in Palastine.
One's bugging be though because it's got a tank in it and I can't identify it can I have a hand?
He was there during the troubles there from '46-'48, Argyl and Sutherland I think.
>>45984354
im no expert but is it a comet?
>>45984354
It does look like a Comet, and they would have been with the British Army in postwar Palestine. I don't know if there were any armoured battalions in the Argylls though?
>>45984432
Could have been another regiment that they took a photo of, I know fuck all about the posting.
Lots of photos of of soldiers mucking about and one set for a funeral.
>>45984476
Probably from the RTR.
You should scan them anon, that sort of stuff is the bread and butter of historical research.
>>45984488
RTR?
I really don't have any scanning facilities, would any organisation be willing to take scans then return the originals in the U.K.?
>>45984535
Royal Tank Regiment
Not too sure about that, one would think there'd be some kind of service that would do it.
>>45984553
Is their any unified body that'll get them where they need to go or is it just find your favourite museum?
>>45984535
They'll probably have a printer and scanner at your local library or something.
>>45984628
I work in a Library and basically yes this. All libraries under my county council have scanners, but I suppose other counties may operate differently.
Got a beta version of the medieval FiveCore mod going up sometime soon. Currently blasting through the formatting and tweaking stuff.
If all goes to plan, it should be up on WargameVault as pay what you want pretty soon.
>>45986214
What has based Ivan said about it?
>>45986391
Based Ivan's said he likes the way it's going. Gonna send him a copy of the beta when it's finished.
>>45986655
That's always a good idea, yeah. Glad it's going well. I want to give it a shot even tho I have nobody to play with.
>>45967708
I used to think the same thing but I just have no need for this many grenadiers. And honestly, they're not that fun to paint. Just blue. Lotsa blue.
>>45986908
Tell me 'bout it. I have a Napoleonic French and Prussian army. And some Brits with hussars and arty.
>>45951867
I´ve manged to convince my girlfriend to play the intro scenario for Blucher and hopefully it´ll be as fun to her as the rules and reviews of the game seem to suggest. If that´d be the case I´d start assembling two 6mm Baccus armies for regular play.
If she won´t like it I´ll probably start assembling two small armies anyways and use them for solo play.
>>45987795
>6mm Blucher
Good lad, fun game in the best scale.
>>45987795
not a club nearby?
>>45988066
There are some players nearby, but they mainly play 40k, Warma and other games I´m not so fond of. SAGA is the only historical game that is being played, but others not really.
Also, what would be some good starter lists for Blücher?
>>45988203
>Also, what would be some good starter lists for Blücher?
do you mean specific lists or just which armies are good for beginners?
Good lists generally seem to be the Russians and I think both French lists. The Russians are the only nation to receive a bonus (artillery ammo) for NO cost which has lead to some questions on competitive balance (although it really isn't that big a deal, especially for pick up games), and the French lists are just really versatile, have a lot of different options for both infantry and cavalry.
In specific lists how many points are we talking?
>>45988758
Specific lists, as it´s clear that she would want to play Prussians (she grew up in Hohenzollern), whereas I´d choose the late period French.
I´ve read that 200 to 300 points are the standard size for Blücher games, but I find it a bit difficult to find ways of creating "proper" army lists, e.g. with a good enough balance between the different types of units. The rules only give some min./max. numbers of certain units, but I just find it difficult turning the choices into something useful.
For example: Should cav and inf be mixed into one Corps? If so, should only certain types be mixed? What´s the most usefull size of a Corps? Smaller or larger?
Here's the American civil war minis like I promised
https://mega.nz/#fm/eFhmSAII
>>45988981
Well my club runs 250 point games most of the time.
My game on Friday was the lists,
Austrians (my list)
I Corps
4 Veteran Infantry
1 Conscript Infantry/Grenz
1 Veteran Grenz
1 Massed Foot Artillery
1 Massed Heavy Artillery
1 "Other" Cavalry
II Corps
I Corps
4 Veteran Infantry
1 Conscript Infantry/Grenz
1 Veteran Grenz
2 Massed Foot Artillery
1 "Other" Cavalry
III Corps
1 Cuirassier
4 Hussars
1 "Other" Cavalry
12 Infantry, 8 Cavalry, 4 Artillery, Break point 7
Ottomans (enemy list based on what I think it was, but don't actually remember, I also don't remember the Corps compositions exactly)
2 Elite Janissaries
3 Conscript Janissaries
3 Provincial Infantry
4 Nizam e Cedid
10 Regular Cavalry
2 Irregular Cavalry
3 Massed Foot Artillery
1 Massed Heavy Artillery
His cavalry were in 2 corps of 5 Regalar and 1 Irregular whilst his artillery and Infantry were spread out in some way over 3 Corps of 4 infantry and 1 or 2 artillery batteries. He also had a handful of the Ottoman prepared defenses that they can take to fill the list out to 250 points.
12 Infantry 12 Cavalry 4 Artillery Break point 8
This meant I had 2 large corps of Infantry with artillery and light cavalry support and 1 Heavy Cavalry Corps whilst he had 3 small infantry corps with artillery support and 2 decent sized corps of pretty average cavalry.
This isn't necessarily helpful but it might give you something to think about? Frankly I like mixing 1 unit of cavalry into my infantry Corps where I can, if I can force units to prepare my artillery can get a bonus, and if he doesn't prepare it lets me get a hopefully good charge in. As well as this they can be a nice screen against enemy cavalry, stuck on the end it can potentially give me some extra time before my infantry need to be in squares.
>>45990483
Thanks, this looks quite helpful and inspiring. I have been toying with the idea of copying the structure of a French Corps D'Armee for Blücher "Corps" which also mixes infantry with cav and artillery.
From your experiences, are several smaller Corps more mobile than fewer bigger Corps? I wonder how the size and composition of the Corps works with the momentum mechanism.
>>45990779
Bigger corps are in general better.
You don't have to move or even deploy corps with each other so you could split a 10 unit corps into 2 5 unit chunks and have them act independently but they would have the option of activating together if need be. there is very little advantage I can think of in small corps.
>>45990203
>https://mega.nz/#fm/eFhmSAII
Sorry, the folder seems to be empty?
>>45981472
>the Japanese didn't launch counterattacks
That for a fact is wrong for Iwo Jima. There are accounts of small counterattacks, including one by an officer who was so infuriated that the American was flying above Mt. Surobayachi that he attempted to infiltrate and break through American lines to take it down.
Obviously it didn't work, but as units became split up and separated from the main commander, localized Banzaii charges did happen.
Also thanks for the quick responses guys, looks like ill spring for the bundle and make a terrain feature to represent it being dug in for scenario games.
>>45982498
you know that isn't true anon. Production is all about how much landmass you have, covered in how many people and factories. Russia is one of the few countries that rivals US in terms of raw production power during WW2. These days China would rival as well.
>>45982497
Its a pity the US couldn't just nuke Vietnam. I guess people got a bit nervous about nukes during that period...
>>45993458
They didn't use tanks in their counter attacks on iwo jima though did they?
>>45994997
> I guess people got a bit nervous about nukes during that period...
Also, y'know, a lot of innocent Vietnamese civilians.
>>45995348
>a lot of innocent Vietnamese civilians.
that didn't seem to be an issue with Nagasaki.
It was a completely civilian city. Not even the original target for the nuke. I think it was bad weather or something that made them divert to nagasaki, and even then they had to drop by radar due to clouds
I'm assuming it is okay to ask for non-historical stuff?
I'm looking for Otherworld Fantasy Skirmish.
>>45994997
>Its a pity the US couldn't just nuke Vietnam. I guess people got a bit nervous about nukes during that period
Holy shit are you insane? That many innocents dying to keep vietnam in the wests sphere of influence? You'd better be joking.think of all the good war gaming we'd miss
>>45995522
The general PDF request thread >>45956363 might be better since that's not really within our sphere.
>>45995594
>innocents
I dont think that was an issue. Many many innocents were killed by napalm, marines, MGs etc.
Nagasaki as well, was all civilians. Almost no military targets in that city. Didn't seem to be an issue for US conscience.
The main issue with nuking Vietnam is retaliatory nukes from Russia, and sparking off a nuclear holocaust. Thats the primary reason people refrained from nuking post WW2. They didn't want the entire world turning into an irradiated wasteland.
Civilians just aren't a problem in war. All you have to do is convince the media its necessary. I mean look at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, US propaganda says they were necessary to end the war, but that just isn't the case. The japanese high command was swayed by the emperor, who had just visited firebombed tokyo. The combination of saturation bombing and the soviets getting ever closer through manchuria meant the Japanese surrendered when they did, I believe they would have surrendered on that day even without the A-bombs.
When you nuke 2 entire cities, its very important not to come out looking like a war criminal, and I think the US has done a great job of convincing the world it was necessary, when that just isn't the case. They simply wanted to test their new mega weapons before the war ended (they knew surrender was coming very soon, and were essentially racing against the soviets to see who would break the Japanese first) Civilian casualties just weren't an issue.
Truman rushed the development and dropping of the bombs, he could have waited a week for japan to surrender, but no, he was determined to test this new weapon and show the soviets who wore the pants in the current world order.
Watch this if you haven't already:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRosq6Q_yZE
>>45990203
>>45992699
Unfortunately anon has neglected to add the key at the end
>>45995788
I strongly disagree with you but this is not the place for it. Hence i tried to lighten the mood by mentioning all the war gaming we'd have missed. Lets bring it all back to the littke army men we paint and make pew pew noises with
>>45995788
>America says nukes would have prevented 10s of thousands of marine lives in a land invasion of Japan
>vaporizes 100,000 civilians and poisons generations more to prevent this
Thankfully they're a super power and have a great propaganda machine, otherwise the entire world would be screaming "war crimes!"
>>45995522
I was in on playtesting for that.
Bollocks desu. Wasted potential.
Based off the worse edition of 7TV, with a ton of stupid mistakes in the units like stuff not matching the models Otherworld sells in what equipment they can take , tons of skills being useless, clearly optimal weapons choices due to pointless requirements/costs, magic items negating the point of taking a lot of quite normal weapons by being cheaper and more effective... on the whole it's a massively unbalanced mess that'll break the moment you look at it wrong. Just like 7TV 1st edition but minus the charm.
Some might argue that it's supposed to be unbalanced because it's for narrative-dungeon-crawl guff but that's a shit excuse for the guy running the game to have to put in a lot of work trying to assess if the sides are actually going to give a good game rather than the system not being janky-as-a-fuck-sled at the start.
Damn shame too, Otherworld make some really nice miniatures. Lots of historical gear on their humans makes them a decent choice if running something small and warband-y. Also Giant Spiders.
>>45995788
I think the best pro-nuke argument is that by showing how awful even a tiny nuke is, it helped keep a lid on things during the cold war.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOJHz6Przdw
>>45996064
lowball estimates-taking into account the casualty rates that were seen on Okinawa-was estimated that at least a MILLION japanese would end up dead from the invasion of the homelands.
thats the lowball estimate. American Generals were more realistically looking at closer to 3-5 million japanese casualties to secure the homeland islands
vaporisng 100k from dropping the bombs? hell its not even a contest to see which one is the more 'humane' of the 2 options.
Thats what they were looking at when the decision was made to drop the bombs.
how do you think history would remember the allies if they had invaded and seen such casualties as that.
>>45994997
>they didn't use tanks in their counterattacks did they?
Still trying to figure that out. Probably not, but leave it to the crazy nips to figure out a way.
I'll have to keep reading and see what I find
>>45997665
But the invasion of the homeland never would have happened. Japan surrendered when it did due to the soviet forces smashing though manchuria, and saturation bombing of its cities (mostly Tokyo) The nukes were just superfluous.
The decision to drop the bombs was purely a show of arms against the soviets, explained away as "necessary for ending the war"
>>45997324
If the US had kept the technology to themselves, and not dick-waved it around, the cold war probably wouldn't have even happened, the Russians would never have started a nuclear program, and the prospect of nuclear holocaust may never have developed.
I know this isn't exactly /tg/, but we're as close as it gets to a knowledgeable history thread.
>>45996064
>A. let thousands of our own men die trying to take an island the old fashioned way against a country that considers suicide tactics basic TOE, and who elements of their military would rather gouge their eyes out with a spoon than admit surrender
Or
>B. Nuke the country that gladly executed and tortured our POW's, used gas in combat, and killed/raped hundreds of thousands of civilians themselves.
Yeah, I don't think I blame the US high command for dropping nukes on Japan, even if purely as a massive "fuck you, let this be a warning to anyone else that messes with us."
And its not like the japs had set a precedent for surrender before that point either. After Iwo Jima and Okinawa, pretty much anyone would've laughed at you had you said "hey don't worry, they'll totally surrender by September", especially vets. Many Marines swear up and down the only reason they're alive is because of the atom bombs after they saw how determined jap troops were.
After everything I've read about the subject, I just don't buy the whole "Japan was gonna surrender anyways!" argument. There was even a coup the moment the military realized surrender was on the table. Without a seriously heavy blow like the atom bombs and the firebombing, I fully believe at least some elements of the military would've kept fighting. Hell, they were rooting out guerilla troops for years and one guy kept going into the 70's. You honestly think those types would've given in otherwise?
>>45998251
This.
There's also that it's quite likely that it would have been a conditional surrender, which in the long run would have been worse for the Japanese that the unconditional surrender and total occupation of the country by the US that the atomic bombings arguably allowed for.
>>45998079
>the cold war probably wouldn't have even happened
There's so many things that caused the cold war to be a thing, removing nukes from the picture wouldn't stop it at all. If anything it'd have prolonged it, or caused a much earlier, far more brutal end in a hot war.
>>45998571
You bring up another good point, and one that the other guy brings up too. Namely that the USA dropped the bombs as much to keep the USSR out of Japan as it was to get the Japs to surrender.
Btw to our anti A-Bomb guy, I hope I'm not coming across as hostile to you. You're probably the first person I've ever met that actually provides decent arguments against the bombs. I still disagree, but its nice to debate something for once where the other guy is civil and is making efforts to back up his arguments. Especially on 4chan of all places.
>>45996008
>https://mega.nz/#fm/eFhmSAII
>>45990203
Post the key soon?
>>45996064
Fucking lol. We burned 800,000 of them alive in Tokyo, who fucking cares about Hiroshima and Nagasaki? What about Dresden?
It's the other way around. The only reason anyone even remembers that H&N were bombed at all is the novelty of the bombs used.
Plus, they literally dropped fliers over both cities beforehand that said "we're going to nuke this city with an xbox huge bomb, get out while you still can," possibly cutting the casualties in half.
>>46003139
“Read this carefully as it may save your life or the life of a relative or friend. In the next few days, some or all of the cities named on the reverse side will be destroyed by American bombs. These cities contain military installations and workshops or factories which produce military goods. We are determined to destroy all of the tools of the military clique which they are using to prolong this useless war. But, unfortunately, bombs have no eyes. So, in accordance with America’s humanitarian policies, the American Air Force, which does not wish to injure innocent people, now gives you warning to evacuate the cities named and save your lives. America is not fighting the Japanese people but is fighting the military clique which has enslaved the Japanese people. The peace which America will bring will free the people from the oppression of the military clique and mean the emergence of a new and better Japan. You can restore peace by demanding new and good leaders who will end the war. We cannot promise that only these cities will be among those attacked but some or all of them will be, so heed this warning and evacuate these cities immediately.”
>>46003164
Interesting, didn't know about this.
I wonder how effective it was? I doubt anyone who fled wanted to admit that they did as a result of it rather than say, finding an excuse to visit relatives elsewhere.
My only point of reference though is the VC and Vietnamese civilians, who thought that it was nice to have some toilet paper (amongst other mundane uses). Well, the VC tended to police it up and just use it for fires and stuff to prevent people reading it when they were around.
>>45996064
>>46003278
The psychological effect of propaganda leaflets seems to be minor, at best. In this case the average Japanese citizen would have probably naturally assumed it was scaremongering anyway. Certainly anyone caught even just picking up a leaflet would have been in serious trouble with the Kempeitai and other authorities.
There was a joke among RAF crews who flew on the pointless, hazardous missions to drop "bombphlets" over Germany that maybe it might land on someone and kill them, which would at least achieve something. I always think of that scene in "Come and See" when the Uhu strews anti-Bolshevik leaflets over the partisans; one of them picks one up and says "Thanks for the toilet paper!"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airborne_leaflet_propaganda
>>46003280
>Caps-lock revenge rant
This sort of thing really isn't worthy of /hwg/.
>>46003364
And yet it's a tactic that is still used.
Fuck knows why. You'd literally be better with buying ad-space or creating click-bait articles on websites than leaflet-dropping these days.
11 reasons why you should surrender, number 9 will shock you!
More are defecting every day, would you like to know why? Click here!
>>46003382
You sound pretty autistic.
I warned you. I warned you all. /hwg/ was once a peaceful place...
Seriously can we get back to /hwg/ stuff? What's everyone painting?
>>46003610
>>45995522
Be my guest.
https://mega.nz/#!PVMgmQxK!Re6pYbapzxfkwN_aC1WXmFKIcx2RP4iAaWncXiW5RMU
>>45996084
Hm, from reading the rules, the game seems fun. Haven't played it so far, I gotta add, but I was planning to use it as my main fantasy skirmish game since Forstgrave was really fucking bland. But I guess we can tweak the rules if something's not fine.
And the whole "minions can only take equipment that's listed in their profile"...yeah, that's the first thing I won't take into consideration. An Elf can take only a bow? Not a shield, a spear, a big-ass sword or anything? Nah, that's not how it works.
>>46004075
Finished the last remaining US soldiers for 'nam yesterday. 3 M79, one Squad Leader with an M16 and an underslung grenade launcher, and two M16 armed bunnies. Now I only need basing them, and they're basically ready for FoF. If I enhance the die-cast M48 in the background, it'll be even better, and the two S-Model boxes (M113 and Sheridan) can wait a bit as I have lots of commission work now.
It is 349 years since the execution of Admiral John Byng (October 1704 – 14 March 1757). Byng is best known for failing to relieve a besieged British garrison during the Battle of Minorca at the beginning of the Seven Years' War. He had sailed for Minorca at the head of a hastily assembled fleet of vessels, some of which were in poor condition. He fought an inconclusive engagement with a French fleet off the Minorca coast, and then elected to return to Gibraltar to repair his ships. Byng was subsequently court-martialled and found guilty of failing to "do his utmost" to prevent Minorca falling to the French. He was sentenced to death and shot by firing squad.
A quiet, shy man, the unfortunate John Byng was no coward – he faced his death with cool courage – but he seems to have been too cautious, passive and defeatist for command in the British navy. He went to sea at thirteen and rose up the ladder to captain at twenty-three and rear admiral at forty.
Aged fifty in 1756 when the Seven Years’ War broke out he sailed with ten ships of the line to Gibraltar. His orders were to prevent the French in Toulon from capturing the British stronghold of Fort St Philip on the island of Minorca, and to this end he was to carry a detachment of 700 men from the Gibraltar garrison to Port Mahon.
When Byng reached Gibraltar, however, he discovered that the French had already landed a sizeable force on Minorca and were besieging the fort. He and his council of war decided against landing more troops and he wrote to the Admiralty to explain that carrying out his orders would not stop the French and would be a needless waste of manpower.
The letter, which arrived at the end of May, aroused consternation and fury in London. George II said flatly: ‘This man will not fight!’ Then came news of an inconclusive encounter in June between the British fleet under Byng and the French, from which the French had sailed away scot-free, and late in June Fort St Philip surrendered.
>>46004446
Byng was summoned home and put under arrest on arrival. Mobs went about chanting ‘Swing, swing Admiral Byng’ and the court martial, which convened at the end of December, was reported in detail in all the newspapers. Byng was charged with ‘failing to do his utmost’. He defended himself, but the court found against him and with the utmost reluctance sentenced him to death.
The government ignored the court’s unanimous recommendation to mercy and George II declined to use his prerogative to spare Byng. In a howling gale in Portsmouth harbour that March day a heavy coffin was hoisted on board the Monarch at 7am. It was already inscribed, ‘The Hon. John Byng, Esqr. Died March 14th 1757.’ The admiral himself followed and by 11am boats were bringing officers from every warship in the harbour and numerous other vessels were heaving up and down filled with eager spectators.
At noon Byng came out on deck in a light grey coat, white breeches and a big white wig. He had been persuaded with difficulty to be blindfolded, on the grounds that it would not be fair to the firing party to have to see his face. He was escorted out onto the quarter deck, ‘with a stately pace and a composed countenance’ according to the Evening Post, to see nine marines in their scarlet uniforms lined up in three rows. The rear row were in reserve. In front of him was a cushion and a heap of sawdust, sodden from the rain.
He knelt on the cushion, tied the blindfold round his head and held up a white handkerchief in his right hand. He dropped the handkerchief, the six marines fired and the admiral fell gently on his side.
Byng's execution was satirized by Voltaire in his novel Candide. In Portsmouth, Candide witnesses the execution of an officer by firing squad and is told that "in this country, it is good to kill an admiral from time to time, in order to encourage the others" (Dans ce pays-ci, il est bon de tuer de temps en temps un amiral pour encourager les autres).
>>45998251
The options were more like:
>A: wait a week for japan to surrender on their own
>B: nuke 2 cities and poison generations of civilians for little military gain
I think the impact of the soviet forces smashing Japanese forces in manchuria is understated in common knowledge. In reality it was a huge blow to the Japanese high command, and essentially made them shit their pants.
After this pants shitting, the high command was still 50/50 on surrender or continuing to fight, but the emperor himself broke the tie, appealing to the Japanese people on the radio to give up in an unprecedented announcement.
Like other anons have said, the nukes were nothing compared to the firebombing of tokyo and various other cities.
I guess I must be anti-nuke anon, but I'm not even that anti nuke. I'm more interested in how the reality of the situation was skewed afterwards so that the US didn't seem like war criminals.
Part of it has to do with the US being a super power. No one can really accuse them of war crimes. Its war, and civilians die all over the place, often for no reason and no military gain. Of course the Japanese were far worse than the US in the way they treated civilians and POWs. They were some of the most evil in WW2. Its the whole "nukes ended WW2" propaganda that I dislike. Yes the Japanese were stubborn, and yes an invasion of the homeland would have been bloody, but the soviet advance was breaking the back of the Japanese empire (its not like some tiny islands in the pacific had any impact on japans production). It was a race to beat the Japanese before the Russians did, so the US could claim they "ended WW2" when really they were very late to the party, and only developed a nuclear program thanks to the German discovery of nuclear fission in 1938, and various leaked or captured documents from the German nuclear weapons project "Uranprojekt".
>>46004303
I always liked the badass, barechested dude resting his M16 on his hip there. That box had some great minis.
>>46004856
He's my platoon leader. Simply too badass to use him as a regular trooper.
Only problem is what I've already mentioned a couple of times is the M60-M79 ratio...and the inclusion of the green berets (I use them as squad leaders) - not enough to make a complete platoon, and there could have been some more infantry poses, but oh well. They were enjoyable to paint, and I'm glad I bought the army (along with two boxes of VC I'll paint hopefully this year).
>>46007313
Do you know if anyone has received their physical copy yet? I'm still waiting on mine.
>>46007481
I have no idea desu, got the pdf from a buddy.
>>46003280
I wanna know who created this image. The text reads like a grumpy old war vet talking to his liberal grandkids but knowing the internet theres like a 98% chance it was some basement dwelling neckbeard and if thats the case I wanna find them and bite their fuckin moobs off
A return look at 'Nato, Nukes, and Nazis' as I add in the extra variant counters from Command Magazine to make the air war more balanced.
https://youtu.be/rOmJzy76ZDQ
>>46006228
are those from magister militum? Have 125 men to paint yet.
Working on some AWI British. Would it be accurate to give the drummer in the light infantry regiment a fur cap? I know that the official uniform states they would, but in battle apparently it wouldn't be uncommon for them to switch them out for a lighter hat worn by the rest of the regiment. Thoughts?
Have a look at my 15mm Mirliton feudal dudes.
>>46010678
Neato.
>>46010616
They look hot Anon. Well its a stylistic choice for you. I'd have the fur hat but if you like slouches or cut down whatever go with that.
>>46010709
Thanks. Teutonic knights coming up next.
>>46010616
I'd go with the Fur cap personally, but either would probably be fine.
>>46010678
I like the bright shields, they look crisp.
I've been working on some 6mm Spanish Grenadiers recently, with the stupid Bearskins with the coloured bag on the back.
Lords and Servants rules, not sure if it's in the folders.
http://www.4shared.com/office/LNkTKfthba/LordsServants__6987623_.htm
>>46011003
Thanks you! Looks exactly like what I need for my knights.
>>46010896
They look fantastic!
Are you going to base all of your infantry in line formation?
>>46012042
thanks, I'm not keeping them. I'm painting them for a guy down my local club. Not sure how he will be basing them.
>>46010616
AWI uniforms are an area where, a lot of the time, there isn't a strictly 'correct' answer.
Eyewitness accounts often don't mention details of uniform for either side, beyond describing an appearance as 'ragged' or 'fine' (for example). The 1768 warrant wasn't strictly adhered to in North America, particularly after 1776, and it was probably being adapted as circumstance dictated before then, so there would be variation on a regimental basis. Some research suggests that bearskins weren't always supplied to America, but at the same time we know that they were worn at Brandywine (at least by the Grenadiers), so there's likely to have been some disparity in terms of who was supplied with what.
Ultimately, unless you're modelling a specific regiment for a specific battle where there's solid evidence as to what they wore, go with whatever you think looks best.
>>46014304
I'm theming my force vaguely around The Battle of Monmouth. I say vaguely mainly as I have a Hessian 4pdr cannon and we know for a fact the Hesse Cassel artillery korp didn't make it to Monmouth.
This regiment is specifically going to be the 15th Foot. You are too right about the general lack of information on specifics of uniform. The only reason I'm using these hats is going off this painting of an officer of the regiment from around the time of the revolution.
My current concern is how I will represent my blokes going into attack formation. I've never played a game of black powder, still figuring out the base rules. If I only have 3 bases of 6 figures, how I define attack and column formation?
Have any of you played Battles of Napoleon: The Eagle and the Lion? I'll get a copy soon, and wonder if it's as good as they say (on BGG it's rated highly, but they observe it from a boardgamer viewpoint).
>>46015385
Actually, saying that I've done a bit more research and some sources (the Friends of Monmouth organisation for one) state that there was a bit of hessian artillery divided between the various divisions.
There was defenitely some more, along with Hessian reinforcements en-route too. Good enough for me!
So /hwg/, what would you say is the most famous battle/battles to happen near to where you live?
For me (NE England) it's probably either the Battle of the Standard during the Anarchy or the Battle of Neville's Cross during the HYW.
Incidentally, both involved the English defeating numerically superior Scottish armies.
>>46016932
On second thought, maybe I should've said 'notable' rather than famous as I doubt many people have actually heard of either of those.
>>46016932
The Mary Rose sank out in the harbour. Portsmouth hasn't seen much action besides that, aside from getting bombed to shit in WW2. Plenty of cool fortifications though!
>>46016932
Nothing spectacularly famous around where I live now, but I grew up not far at all from the fields where the Battle of Lund was fought.
>>46016932
The Battle of Castricum, a battle in 1799 in which a French-Batavian (Dutch) army fought of an Anglo-Russian invasion force coming down the Holland peninsula from Den Helder.
Campaigning in Holland is though because of the soft ground and the water everywhere. Movement is often limited by dikes and ditches everywhere. The only way off the peninsula towards the coast was along a small strip where the bottom is made of sand a couple of km wide. This strip of sand connects the city of Alkmaar with the city of Haarlem.
>>46016932
Well, Flodden and the Battle of Otterburn too I would say.
Battle of Corbridge was pretty important to the viking period as a whole too
>>46016932
I'm in southern Scotland, so its probably the battle of Bannockburn, where clever use of ground allowed a significantly smaller Scottish force of mostly infantry and light cavalry to defeat the knights and longbowmen of the English over a two day period.
>>46017224
I'm actually in County Durham so Flodden and Otterburn are a bit further north of me.
>>46017336
Oh I see, thought you were a fellow Northumberland fag.
>>46016932
The house I grew up in was on the final line of British defenses in the battle for Singapore, theres a plaque at the end of the road describing the positions of various units in the area.
It was a pretty weird moment when I realised why the ground around my house undulated so weirdly and that I was looking at what were clearly the remains of trenches and craters.
>>46017417
Got a lot of family up there but no, I'm in the old Prince-Bishopric.
>>46016932
Battle of the Delfzijl Pocket, in 1945. That's in the northern Netherlands, near the German border.
One of the last proper battles on the western front, fought between the 5th Canadian Armoured Division and a mishmash of German troops.
The reason there was serious fighting there was twofold:
First off, the city and its vicinity were seriously fortified because of its port and because several 10.5cm flak batteries defending the more important port of Emden were positioned there. These batteries would also play a serious part in the defense because they could also act as artillery and were extremely hard to destroy as they were dug into the dike.
Secondly, that port ended up being the last hope for many German troops to escape across the water towards Germany or one of the German-held islands once the Canadians had cut off the land route.
The land was mostly flat and partially flooded, severely limiting the usability of tanks. In fact, several armoured companies were ordered to leave their vehicles in the city of Groningen and fight as infantry.
Aside from the 10.5cm guns, the area was also within range of several warships on the Ems (including one disguised as a hospital ship) and the naval guns on the island of Borkum.
The Canadian advance was fairly swift at first, until the defensive ring was reached, where serious battles erupted.
In the village of Holwierde (pictured), fighting was house-to-house, with the Canadians pursuing the Germans as closely as possible since the artillery would start pounding each building as soon as the German troops withdrew from it.
Eventually, the three-pronged Canadian assault managed to push into Delfzijl proper. The battle ended on May 2nd, 2 days before the surrender of all German troops in the Netherlands.
Most of the German-built bunkers are still standing today.
>>46016932
The Great Cheese Riot of 1766
>>45952502
Im pretty sure the points values could probably use some tweaking but I havent had a chance to do any sort of extensive testing, though from what I saw in my few games was exactly how I thought it really should be as in the colonials were far more effective at range, but the maori had numbers and would close ground very quickly. I think provided there is enough terrain on the table it should work out, though the limits on the outflankers I put in my edit were due to the complete destruction that happened when I had 8 forest rangers coming in from the side.
>>45969634
its honestly cheaper to just build your own Deluxe ASL boards.
also
Starter Kit 2 in the mediafire when, Ive lost mine.
Quick Poll, Whats the largest scale you've played at, and the smallest?
>28mm
>3mm
>>46018257
>28mm
>28mm
>>46018383
>inb4 people start calling you a 40kiddy
>>46018257
>30mm
>3mm
>>46018257
in general
>28mm
>6mm
Historicals
>15mm
>6mm
>>46018415
>>46018257
>3mm
so you're stupid?
>>46018511
btfo
>>46016932
Battle of Worcester (1651) and the Battle of Evesham (1265)
>>46018511
no you.
>>46018568
TinyTanks' stuff is so legit, he's what got me into historicals
>>46018257
>1/72
>15mm
>>46018568
you can even see the miniatures, may as well play with counters
>>46016932
Live in Australia now so the Emu war. But i spent my first 12 years in Mostar BiH so battles are many. Which should ivrecreate without giving my elderly father flashbacks?
>>46018682
You certainly can see them, yes. Run along and play your narrative skirmish games or something.
>>46018682
if you think the terrain and miniatures there are the same as counters I think you may need to pop in to your local specsavers
>>46018794
what size are those hexes, thinking about using 2inch across for an upcoming project (3mm) and want some perspective
>>46018794
Those tanks are fucking adorable
>>46018921
shut the fuck up
>>46018977
Or what cunt?
>>46018921
Gotta love that1:1 ratio of miniatures to troops/vehicles
>>46018087
>8 forest rangers coming in from the side.
alright! I can imagine that would be fairly devastating.
Forest rangers were supposed to be hideously expensive glass spears. at 30 points they're decently pricey, but if that isn't enough, I could sneak it up a bit, or potentially limit the amount of out flankers one can take.
I do like no-limits army building though, gives more flexibility. Mostly just use points costs to limit things.
>>46018257
>28mm (much larger if you count inquisitor)
>~10mm (used a LOT of risk figures as proxies for ancients, napoleonics and TYW playtesting)
As it happens TinyTanks just posted last week, he's still trialing Team Yankee in 6mm
>>46020419
SlightlyLessTinyTanks 6mm more like.
>>45996064
F-em.
Any Marine in WW2 was worth more than the entire population of Japan.
>>46021460
ugh, racist and nationalist much? Can't people like you just stay on /pol/?
>>46021515
Get bent. Anyone who's got even a half assed knowledge of the war in the Pacific would know that the Japanese were considered to be akin to vermin back then, Besides, after Leyte Gulf the writing was on the wall yet they refused to surrender. From that point on count the Allied dead. Every single day Japan doesn't give up Allied personnel are dying.
Let's see how far you would get back in the 40s with valuing the life of the Japanese over Allied troops.
>>46022114
Take it to >>>/his/
>>46022114
>get bent
Bart simpson detected
Seriously though i dont care about your opinions. Fuck off back to /pol/, this thread is for wargaming
>>46022230
Amazing that there are posts higher up in the thread on the topic yet no "take it to /his/." until now.
Boy, what are the odds of something like that happening?
>>46022381
Fuck you too.
>>46022432
Ay currumba*
Fixed it for you bort
>>46018757
My group and I want to get in on gaming the emu war, should I collect emu or the underdog aussies? Is there a rule system that balances out the asymmetry a bit so my aussies would stand a chance? I don't want to just automatically lose every game
>>46025367
If you don't want to lose, take the Emus.
>>46025367
>Is there a rule system
I'm going to have a go at writing one. Could be fun.
>>46025835
Who stocks emu minis though?
>>46025938
good question.
Looks like this guy managed to find some
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1148657/great-emu-war-1932
there is also this, but doesn't look very suitable.
http://johnnyborgcastings.mypinnaclecart.com/down-under-x-5/emu/
I'd say you can just buy them at toy stores for cheap
>>46017838
>That introduction.
>>46018257
52mm
6mm
>>46015952
Are they 28mm?
>>46015952
are those metal figs perry as well? They have really clean castings
meaning to start a perry-based war of the roses project one of these years, also british/colonial and HYW
>>46026023
Well... wow
>>46027291
Enjoy
>>46026665
They look like Perry bros, if that is true then they are 28mm.
>>46018257
Whatever Inquisitor was (I think 42mm?)
6mm
I'd go smaller to 3mm but there's hardly a local who doesn't have sort of eyesight problem, either from age or just because.
I tend to favour 6mm and 20mm though. Not that I actually get to use 20mm at all, because everyone else is addicted to 28mm despite 20mm having way better coverage in ranges for the kinda thing I'd like to play. Getting vehicles for 28mm outside of WW2 is a complete cunt to put it bluntly. The kinds of vehicles that you should have littering a battlefield at that scale, like civilian cars (most easily available ones are gigantic for 28mm), trucks, buses and so on.
Yeah I am bitter.
>>46027674
Yeah, 1/56 kits are kind of sparse, but it's usually not too hard to find civvie stuff in the right scale, I find.
>>46027886
A lot of people make do with using kid's toys but they're typically 1/48 or larger if they're not 1:72(ish). I've never been able to do that since I played on a table that included a taxi bigger than an up-armoured hummer.
>>46028035
I've had some good luck finding 1/56 toy cars and diecast. Just have a look around second-hand shops and the like. If you know how big modern 40k dudes are, if the vehicle looks a little too small for him, it's probably the right scale.
The oversized toy cars thing bothers me too. A lot.
>>46028088
It's very much a locality thing. 1/56 is really rare in the UK, the default is more like 1/43. Blame Matchbox for setting the standard.
>>46016932
I live in Miskolc, Hungary. Literally nothing noteworthy.
>>46027531
How many embarrassment points is needed for aus army to rout?
>>46018257
Largest: 28mm
Smallest: 1:72 (have a 6mm Epic army, but haven't played with them yet).
>>46022397
We stayed on topic.
>>46025367
>Is there a rule system that balances out the asymmetry a bit so my aussies would stand a chance?
If you want this, play 40k. IG vs. Kroot
>>46027531
Found my next project, thanks.
>>46028413
As soon as they start shitposting, the emus win.
>>46028292
Go figure. Matchbox is pretty handy for 15mm scale at least. Though you've got to watch out for some of them.
I'm in the same boat when it comes to 20mm stuff, Though I tend to mess around with 15 and 25mm more often than that. Which no one here plays either, unless it's FoW.
>>46016932
Fort Whoop-up is kind of hilarious.
>>46028503
Matchbox is awesome for 1:72. Got two pickups recently for my Brits in the Middle-East, and it only needs some MGs and passengers mounted on them. Their nose is wrong, but oh well, I can live with that.
For 28mm, Bburagos could work in 1:43.
>>46028563
The sahara survivor, or their supacat? Stuff's so low-price too, if you've got spare bits it's so easy.
>>46028604
>sahara survivor
That's the one.
>>46028613
Yeah. Pop a ring mount on, a big 50, something smaller on the passenger position, fix up the broken tail and front lights on most of the trucks, and it's a slice of fried gold.
>>46028413
10.
If the Australian forces reach 10 embarrassment or 10 frustration, they lose.
>>46028800
thanks. You should add it to the rules
>>46028854
It is in the rules, you just missed it.
Check "Embarrassment and Frustration".
>>46016932
The part of New Zealand that I come from, Taranaki, has seen a lot of violence over the years. Two of the main parts of the NZ wars occured here. My home town is one of the few Kiwi settlements to have the distinction of being officially besieged in its history. It's the setting of Titokowaru's War with Von Tempsky and numerous other real life PCs, one of the real crazy parts of NZ's past. It saw some horrific slaughter in the Musket Wars era, look up a place called Pukerangiora. I am literally a few minutes from a place where a group of Pakeha whalers saved a Maori village by strategic use of three 6-pounder cannons from their ship, it's our local saga. Old pa sites are all over the place.
Our hometown unit, the Taranaki Rifles, is one of two unique regiments of the Commonwealth, in that it has its own country's name as a battle honour. This dates from the service of the Taranaki Volunteer Rifle Corps, from which the Taranaki Regiment is descended, during the New Zealand Land Wars, specifically in the Battle of Waireka. The other unit to share this honour is the Cape Town Highlanders Regiment a reserve mechanised unit of South African Army.
Colonel Malone of the Rifles also created the lemonsquezer, the traditional NZ military hat. Which is a mixed blessing.
>>46029034
oh yeah, found it
>>46017541
Volunteered for Kynren yet?
>>46016932
The Battle of Hastings was about 20 miles away, and is the most famous nearby by far. The Battle of Lewes is probably the next most significant that happened nearby.
>>46016932
Not exactly battle. I live in Warsaw, Poland so Warsaw Uprising is the biggest thing that you guys should know. Also lots of battles from earlier history like November Night(1830) or Battle of Warsaw (1920).
>>46015885
Nobody?
>>46016932
Omaha, NE here, so.. not much. Skirmishing with native Americans, some civil unrest related to racial tensions.
Interestingly, we did experience the most distant attack Japan delivered during WW2, in the form of an incendiary bomb attached to a balloon. It exploded in midair over the Dundee neighborhood, dealing no damage.
>>46022381
No one cares about either of your opinions, stop causing drama.
>>46034513
>>46035571
>>46036226
Ship thread?
>>46036448
It seems like.
>>46036494
Goddamn nips, not everything needs to be cute girls
>>46036559
We need cute girls to forget the cruel reality of war.
>>46036559
>>46036448
Haven't really had much naval discussion lately. Be fun to have a bit. I really wish those rotten British rodents would hurry up and release the damn ACW version of their Victory at Sea 2.0 rules, or at least talk about something other than Traveler or Judge Dredd.
