>Just sick of shitty generic fantasy games using 3.P for everything
>Oh wait scratch that, sick of neo generic fantasy games where I can't even play a fighter without dumping my charisma to 7 and being anal fucked by casters
>Want to try something new, anything
>99% of tabletop rpgs are extremely complicated and rules heavy and difficult to learn and are written horribly
>Seriously most books can't explain their rules for shit, they are just longwinded as fuck
>Nobody wants to play anything else, let alone run it
KILL ME
>>45854375
GURPS
RuneQuest6
Burning Wheel
Shadowrun
Traveller
Pretty much anything that isn't D&D should fit a great deal of your requirements, actually. Unless you're retarded and think GURPS is too complicated to understand or something.
>>45854375
Fallout P&P looks fairly rules-light.
>>45854375
Dude, doood, dude. STOP PLAYING DND. I'm not even saying that to shit post. Their rules are super convoluted and complicated. Play a less rigid, more dynamic system. Try GURPS, it's really really not that complicated, and it's fanbase is 1000% better on average than dnd players usually are. Just give it a shot, you can play a semi historically accurate fantasy game with it just using the basic rules, try it.
>>45854435
The problem with most TRPGs isn't that they're too complicated to understand at their core.
It's that they are written over hundreds of pages full of unnecessary garble.
>>45854435
I have met Traveller fans who are fucking dicks, gurps people in real life are cool bros. And I meet a shadowrun writer, seems cool, was selling is warhammer ogres, skeleton/zombies.
>>45854375
>what is roll20?seriously, if you're at that point, just make an account and suck it up, friendo
>>45854472
So is dnd, it takes mental gymnastics to navigate those convoluted tomes. It just doesn't seem like it to people who ate used to it.
>>45854503
No, I fully agree with you.
I don't like D&D, to clarify. It's not any less complicated garble spanning hundreds of pages.
>>45854435
Pretty much this. I'm so sick of people (OP) bitching that Tabletop games suck when they've never played anything besides DnD/Pathfinder.
>>45854375
Savage Worlds
https://www.peginc.com/freebies/SWcore/TD06.pdf
This quick little document (16 pages including art, 1/3 of which are supporting materials) is the core of everything one needs to play Savage Worlds. The full book is available in a cheap-as-fuck paperback.
As for players, find a new group. Nowadays, anyone left who only plays 3.PF is a shitty player anyway.
Step 1: find new friends.
Step 2: play a better RPG.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit!
Have you played Dark Heresy?
It's the one game where the casters are the most useless/self-endangering
Look up OSR gaming and the thread OP. It's DnD but old school without much of the fat and unbalance of later editions.
>>45855515
>just as shitty as dnd but it isn't dnd so it's better!
Hipsters, everyone
>>45855852
Maybe in the early ranks. They become the line's biggest balance blunders at higher XP totals.
>>45855852
Uhh. Casters in anything but DH2 are reverse D&D fighters. Or I guess exactly like wizards in 3.5, useless at low XP, gods at high XP.
>>45854375
Fantasy craft is straightforward, although it has a lot of rules. It's not long-winded at all, and in fact suffers from the opposite in that it could probably do to restate rules in a couple places.
More importantly, you can play fighters without having to compromise by dumping stats, or by only being good at fighting.
It's definitely worth a read. Start in the melee feats section.
Old World of Darkness.
Sure, it's fluff-heavy and you might not like the way that the fluff is packed very close to the rules at times, but it's everything but D&D.
The rules are good except for the combat system, which is needlessly clumsy (and, I've noticed, reduces murderhoboing because combat is a chore), the feel is completely different and there's a lot more focus on characterization and "realistic" characters than in D&D. The balance is surprisingly good, and min-maxing really isn't much of a thing in the gameline - Vampire does have its unbalanced Celerity, and Werewolf has the infamous Get of Fenris Lupus Ahroun combo, but that's because Celerity is near-impossible to implement and Werewolf can be an eco-tract that gives out mechanical bonuses to the more "natural" characters in exchange for RP disadvantages.
If you're tired of D&D, World of Darkness is different without being completely artsy-abstract (that's "Chronicles of Deepe Grym Darkenesse" or whatever they've started calling it now), and you'll likely avoid the pitfalls that give the players a bad reputation.
>>45854375
If you hate playing RPGs so much then don't play them
>>45854485
>Make account on Roll20.
>Barely any GURPS games.
rip
Then don't play pen and paper RPGs your big fucking baby. Nobody gives a fuck.
>>45854435
It's Hella fuckin more complicated than dnd, although I'd recommend it anyway.
Doesn't really fit the bill for op's complaints about complexity though.
>>45854375
Nothing can be done about your last complaint other than you sacking up and meeting some new people to play with or digging about online.
for systems though, there are plenty.
I don't usually muck about with them myself, but I hear ORE and FATE are good on the simplicity side. Atomic highway is also pretty neat as far as simple games go, but no good unless you want that madmax feel.
Basically anything not d20, and a few things that are d20 will do you if you want something without the classic fantasy feel.
obviously non-fantasy settings will be more different.
tl:dr stop crying to us and go play something else. or at least don't clutter your request for system recommendations with your bitching and moaning.
>>45854375
On a kind of unrelated note, why the shit balls would you play a fighter in dnd? That class is only in the system still out of some kind of fucked up sense of sentimentality for the designers.
It's been a awful class concept since the genre moved past "roll to attack" being literally the only option in combat.
>>45857904
Stop spreading that meme.
GURPS is a simple system at its core, but some people don't know how to use its modularity and end up making it into an unholy mess. The most complex thing about the system is the preparatory work that the GM has to do in order to tailor the game for the campaign, and if that's done properly, it's simpler than D&D.
The reason that it gets shat on is that a lot of people think you're supposed to play with the whole thing and that the GM has an obligation to let players pick and choose, like many other systems. GURPS is going to be complicated if you just play it off the shelf, of course - because you'll be playing with a lot of things you don't need. It's like saying Lego isn't for kids because your first encounter with it was thirty of the huge project box sets. GURPS isn't a game in itself, it's a construction kit that helps build a game. The GM's responsibility is to prepare the TL, the setting, permitted features, lenses, general power level and other such things, and after that has been done, then it's a game.
Everyone saying that GURPS is complicated as a system has missed the fact that it's not meant to be used all in one go. Its base system is a whole lot simpler than vanilla D&D. To put it this way - D&D is spread over three base books and you have to use all of it, while GURPS is spread over two base books and you only have to use the core system, mixing and matching along the way.
>>45857718
You take what you get, and you don't complain about it. I have to that every fucking time.
Or better yet run your own GURPS game.
>>45856175
What do you play and would suggest then.
>>45854375
>I DON'T LIKE DND
Then don't play it, fæm
>>45861118
>fæm
I'm stealing this
>>45854375
>let alone run it
Agh u an ass
Anyway, you should run a mutants and masterminds fantasy game. Start them at PL 7, which is almost like 3.p level 10. Encourage them to build magic items into their character, so their abilities are cohesive. In 3.p, magic items come and go, and so it's rare for people to think of a character as unified with their equipment. Also, make flight and super speed more expensive when they're not attached to spells or items. you don't want to run a superhero game, you want to run a fantasy game where the warriors are strong, the elves are good looking, and all the eldrazi are fast asleep.
The system will be familiar enough to the players, the damage system is the biggest difference in combat. Creatures from 3.p are reasonably easy to convert, and there's a variety of NPCs in the books.
>>45858005
The flexibility of GURPS and this post makes me want to check it out. So you basically apply certain rules to different things, like for example there's a cyberpunk setting, but GURPS' example for a cyberpunk setting has cyborgs, you don't want to use cyborgs so you just omit them. Is GURPS like that? Not OP btw.
What is a good fantasy game that has an awesome setting AND is not so rules heavy like 3.5/PF ?
>>45854435
>GURPS is too complicated to understand or something.
Gurps is obnoxious in that it throws so much shit at you with the expectation that you are going to toss 98% of it out.
This coupled with the fact you should at least take the time to understand the design and mechanical purpose of a rule before you decide not to use it makes the process of actually learning the system a pain in the ass unless you've got someone who's played it before.
>>45861426
Exactly.
That's what's so brilliant about the system.
The system really shines when you use your own settings, though - it has rules for more or less everything, and that means that the preliminary work is pretty much all done. Do a bit of prep work, and bam, you have your own setting in a playable form.
>>45857396
>If you hate playing RPGs so much then don't play them
>>45857789
>Then don't play pen and paper RPGs your big fucking baby. Nobody gives a fuck.
>your
>>45857904
>tl:dr stop crying to us and go play something else. or at least don't clutter your request for system recommendations with your bitching and moaning.
Love how /tg/'s advice to everything is "just quit".
So fucking hardcore.
And then you go off and run a fucking "that guy" thread to the bump limit.
>>45861611
I'll look it over. I like DnD, but I have other settings where DnD might not be so applicable. Thanks anon for clearing it up.
>>45861578
>>45861611
>>45861755
It's a salad bar for people who enjoy tinkering with rules. It does demand significant work from the GM.
I would have eaten it up before I had grown up responsibilities, but these days there's enough demands on my free time that I pretty much stick to rules light stuff on the level of Traveller or Basic D&D.
>>45861578
Except GURPS is designed so that just about any and every rule can be tossed out without harming the system as a whole. If you don't like something, you can just not use it, and if you like something, chances are there is a rule for it somewhere.
>>45854470
>Not trying to shitpost
>Suggests GURPS
>>45854472
Yeah, that's why they back in the day had simple rules at the core of the game and then released additional content if you wanted more advance rules. A lot of the time you don't need a those extra things if your players and GM uses their best judgement instead of being a slave to rules in something that's more of a social group activity than a sport.
>>45854375
>what is 13th age
If you need to keep playing DnD, why not play 4e or ADnD?
I like how Casters are glass cannons in those systems.
>>45863498
Apperently you never played low level 3.pf wit players who aren't min maxing faggots.
>>45861711
>Love how /tg/'s advice to everything is "just quit".
>And then you go off and run a fucking "that guy" thread to the bump limit.
So strawmen and nitpicking is all you bring to the table. If OP is going to melodramatically memepost, I can tell him to fuck off. You're even worse so you can fuck off too.
>>45865717
This.
If you got nothing to say bit point out what 3 elitist jerk offs say, then you need to leave to.
>>45854375
I'm willing to bet if you go to roll 20, their is a d6 game going on, that's a pretty fun system.
>>45854375
Try reading really simple ones like apocalypse world or Everyone Is John.
>>45854375
>Complaining about rules-heavy systems
I actually envy you. My group can barely understand the mechanics of Magical Burst. I like crunchy character design, but I never get to play that sort of thing.
