http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Thunder_Warriors
"Eventually after an encounter with a group of traitor Space Marines known as the Outcast Dead, Taranis was able to cure the genetic instability of the Thunder Warriors, though was not before suffering considerable degeneration himself. This along with his knowledge of creating Thunder Warriors means that some of these elite and ancient warriors, may still exist in the current age."
Are the Thunder Warriors coming home at last?
>>45813986
>SOME of these elite and ancient warriors
Most of them are already dead, there may be a handfull at best. Their fate was explained a bit on the World Eaters' exemplary battle in HH1, where they kill some of them.
There maaaay be some hiding, but they're far too few to mean something.
>>45814050
Wasn't there all of two survivors anyway? And Taranis was too far gone? I can't see Taranis making rivals to himself.
Although if GW introduced some sort of hyper marine who was incredibly expensive - like 1200 a squad - and then eventually had the Emperor sort of wake up and scream WHAT THE FUCK ARE THE THUNDER WARRIORS DOING BACK I would laugh.
>>45814063
Funny story, in our DH campaign we kinda did that. Its only a matter of time till big E gets back.
>>45813986
In that article it says the Thunder Warriors killed five times their number of regular Space Marines. So are they actually stronger then Space Marines?
>>45814122
I forget where, but I've seen them described to a custode as a custode is to a regular mortal. They're also hyper aggressive fruitcakes, but whatever.
>>45814050
I think there's one who's a mob/mafia/organized crime boss on terra
>>45814122
Yes they're much stronger than a Marine, but they're also much more unstable, uncontrollable and burn out fast.
The candle that burns twice as bright lasts half as long. They just werent cut out for the type of long term operations that galactic conquest would take.
>>45814736
It was heavily implied the Emperor just didn't care enough or actually engineered in their life span. The marines last plenty of time, his kids are immortals. The TW were representative of the worst of mankind, as he saw it, while the Spehss Macaroons were supposed to be the best.
>>45814753
Eh who knows about his motivations, all we know is Thunder Warriors had a limited lifespan for whatever reason.
>>45814753
i think it was more of an practical difference
he needed thunder warriors for horrifyingly but short-term earth/sol conquest, so they needed to be rip roaring and ready to go and just smash the fuck out of anything
whereas he needed the space marines for more long-term and gradual conquest plans
Thunder warriors = Sprints
Space Marines = Marathon
however much like power armour and terminator armour, im assuming the eventual goal was to phase them out for something else as well anyway
Big E likes his fleshy toys, but he doesnt like them forever, otherwise there would only be legions of custodes rocking about
>>45814771
I think the Arik guy actually fixed the geneseed, and now knows how to make other Thunder warriors. Thats what the lexicanum says, at least.
>>45814800
So, would he have disposed of the SM after he had the Imperium conquer the galaxy?
>>45814771
>>45814800
The HH book has the Emperor basically say "They weren't intended to live beyond the Unity and the betrayal was mostly to clean them up in case one got loose and wanted to do some damage".
>>45814813
Maybe. I doubt it. He definitely considered the SM the best of humanity, or a representation of it.
>>45814802
He eventually managed to halt his own by fucking around with his genetics, they now have some bizarre progenoid hybrid that allows them to prevent their own degeneration. How, or wether they can create others of their kind, is a mystery.
>>45814813
Yeah, it is also the reason in cannon for no female space marines/no ability to have children if you are a marine; He didn't want them to destroy humanity and surpass them so he planned to phase them out like the thunder warriors.
>>45814864
What? No. It was because the assorted bits to become a marine depended on the y chromosome being present and the hormonal changes. There is literally nothing about not wanting them to surpass mankind in the canon. They were mankind.
>>45814864
Didnt the lore state that females couldnt undergo the procedure because of the different genes, so the Emperor had to rely only on males?
>>45814813
>>45814851
well to be fair the SM wouldnt be needed in any real capacity beyond the actual crusade, kinda why the very first book has Horus himself having an nice little moment talking about Iterators and how space marines better find another trade if peace ever comes because they would be defunct
(granted this all was delivered by horus for the obvious lols but shit son, was still a good point)
if the crusade had actually gotten close to "completion" then SMs would just become a living weapon to either be repurposed or "winded" down much like everything else Big E had done previously
the heresy and his internment to the golden throne just had him throw his hands up and say "shit, itll have to do, whatevs"
>>45814903
Have you been drinking bleach or something? Are you this legitimately fucking retarded that you can't conceive of the need for a professional military force? Especially an incredibly iconic one of superhumans who can be worth thousands of regular troops? Do you think his sons were going to be real happy with the death of their children? It would be the fastest way for an actual rebellion to start.
>>45814903
Couldnt mars have tried to fix the thunder warrior gene seed so that they live longer, and then had those new thunder warriors fight the enemies of man alongside the SM's? Would seem more practical and worthwhile considering they were alot stronger than SM's.
>>45814893
>>45814888
Hell, i am just saying what i have heard and seen quoted and discussed by other anons. I have no idea if the emperor could make female marines but i know that he did not want them to be able to breed, or else they might attempt to replace humanity.
The emperor made the space marines for the same reason he made the thunder warriors; he saw that, although humanity may be getting closer to his ideal, they would be less useful for both the conquest of earth or later the galaxy. He forced them to become what his ideal was but did not want to have regular humanity be supplanted by his creations, hence their limitations.
>>45814888
>They were mankind.
they are brainwashed child soldiers who cant even remember being human the majority of the time
they cant procreate, they dont get to "retire" (even the nice crusade era marines pre-"pray 15 hours a day" didnt retire after centuries and fuckups) they are living fucking weapons made the murder and conquest
they are not civilians, they are not bartenders, they are not farmers
the primarchs and legions that did things that werent always murderboney, were the exception not the rule (IE: fulgrim and his massive hardon for music and the arts)
>>45814893
the reasons for this have always been vague but just kept to various "hormone" reasons because space marines as a concept are feudal order Space-Knights and having women muddies the context I suppose
>>45814932
Why would MARS care about genetics?
>>45814932
Mars wasnt taken when he purged the Thunder Warriors.
>>45814936
Then you are even more fucking retarded than them for taking it at face value.
>>45814937
"They shall be my finest warriors, these men who give of themselves to me. Like clay I shall mould them, and in the furnace of war forge them. They will be of iron will and steely muscle. In great armour shall I clad them and with the mightiest guns will they be armed. They will be untouched by plague or disease, no sickness will blight them. They will have tactics, strategies and machines so that no foe can best them in battle. They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines and they shall know no fear."
Actual quote from the Emperor.
>>45814923
who said death? not producing more is not the same thing as murder
he didnt fucking take an axe to the thunder warriors, he let them fucking die out to age and wear and tear
jesus anon calm the fuck down and stop being so fucking obtuse
if the crusade had finished a professional army composed of the then imperial army/navy would have been more then enough to keep the peace
if not he would have moved on to something designed more towards keeping civilian populaces inline rather then conquering supermen
spacemarines are warriors and soldiers, policemen and the FBI they are not
>>45814944
Don't they deal with gene seeds as much as they work with mechanical stuff?
>>45814950
I see. Makes sense.
>>45814965
You make shit up, ignore things you don't like and then you claim others are being obtuse? Fuck off.
>>45814970
The gene labs on the moon originally did it if I remember correctly.
>>45814970
No. They didn't. The machine cult came about from the early priests being able to fix the machines that kept people alive in the enclaves pre-crusade. Knowledge was scarce. Magos Biologis were rarer than today.
>>45814944
>>45814970
well, mars is involved in the space marine geneseed purity apparantly but they would have been brought into the fold after Big E was "probably" either already phasing out Thunder Warrior production or was planning on it anyway
its not that they couldnt have fixed the thunder warriors
its that he didnt want to, so they never got involved in that I suppose
>>45815005
You have no idea what you're talking about.
>>45814992
Selenar gene-cults on the moon were used by the Emperor to initiate it.
>>45814978
who made shit up? replacing the SM is a conjecture which I said was based on what I thought as well as a few comments actually in the first few HH books
but whatever anon your right
>>45815023
"THE MARINES ARE ALL MEN TO STOP THEM BECOMING THE NEW MANKIND AND REPLACING ALL THE GOOD LITTLE HUMANS"
"MARS DOES GENETICS ALL THE TIME AND HAVE GREAT GENE FORGES"
>>45815037
theres more then you and me in this conversation
I never said the first bit
and the second bit is the fact that the geneseed tithe is delivered to the mechanicus
damn nigger you stupid
>>45815075
You're the only one typing like that. You're either an asshole or a retard - which is it?
>>45814936
You know that an all-male marine force could take over humanity just like a marine force that could reproduce?
They will just subjugate the population and have breeding programs to ensure the birth of suitable marine candidates.
>>45815113
you cant tell the difference between anons and is angry as fuck so have fun
>>45815194
Go drink some more bleach before you spout horseshit answered by a fucking google search, let alone what's in the books. Or pretend to be someone else.
>>45815037
>>45815113
This guy's just trolling for jollies. Don't give him any attention.
