I want to be a hero of justice, rather than a hero of God.
Is paladin still my best bet?
Oops, wrong picture.
>>45738655
you still will have a god, but yeah, a Paladin follows a code (determined by the god) and not the god itself.
so god of justice, knoc yourself out
>>45738664
Are all the lawful good deities in FR pretty justicey, or is there one who stands out?
>>45738655
Unless you're in some idiot setting like Forgotten Realms, absolutely. No god can tell you what's right or what's wrong. Your own virtuous heart always knows the proper path.
>>45738795
I am balls deep in an idiot setting like Forgotten Realms, but I trust the GM not to pull any "the paladin falls" horseshit.
>>45738655
Ask a GM if your Paladin can take a code that's divorced from a god. Clerics can explicitly do so.
>>45738876
How do you do divine spellcasting without Jesus in your gas tank?
>>45738887
Which edition?
>>45738887
You can't trick me, Jesus isn't in D&D, idiot. Get out of here!
Depends on the edition. In 5e the fact that Paladins get their powers from their oath, and that irreligious Paladins are thus perfectly possible, is spelled out in RAW. You'll still probably need to talk to your DM about it, but if he's the sort of DM to play 5E I doubt he would object.
>>45738655
You can play a hero with any class. That is one of the basic premises of a class-based game.
Daily reminder that having the words "justice" and "divine" and "good" written on your sheet does not guarantee that your character is a hero.
>>45738914http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/115905/Stats-for-Jesus
>>45738974
I specifically want to be a hero: subtype justice though.
>>45739003
Only Paladins can Smite, but any class can smite. It's all the same. Warriors can be heroes of justice. Rangers are particularly good ones. Even Rogues and Mages, depending on if you want to smite with a poisoned dagger they never see coming or with a giant fist made of fire.
>>45739003
It's not hard. Just play any class, hold justice as a high ideal, and work toward justice in everything you do.
Heroism is qbout your playstyle, not your stats.
>>45738683
>>45738835
There's quite a few justicey FR deities.
Tyr is legit about justice and righteousness, Helm is more about the law but still has a lot of Paladins, Illmater is about fighting evil to ease the suffering of others, Sune is about being Sailor Moon with a Holy Avenger (love AND justice), Lathander is a fairly decent neutral balance, etc.
I'm reading up about Tyr. Did they really put him on a boat in 4e because people were salty he put the boots to Helm?
Regardless, Tyr seems like the best choice for MAXIMUM JUSTICE.
>>45739175
But how can I be true lawful good if I'm not a paladin?
>>45738655
Have you tried not playing D&D?
>>45739538
I spend 99% of my time not playing Deen D.
>>45739389
5e fixes all the dumb shit they did to the setting ever since 3e, so no worries there; Tyr is once again a big important deity in the setting and one of the major factions in the central part of the setting heavily reveres him and Helm.
>>45738683
Tyr is about THE LAW, but can this can sometimes be a bad thing because his clergy is loathe to change or go against even unjust laws.
Torm is about GOOD and JUSTICE over anything else, and is the patron god of Paladins.
Ilmater is a pretty interesting and based God, whose nominally pacifistic followers are deceptively dangerous and ruthless. They have a holiday once per year that allows them to act with complete impunity from their normal moral obligations - they usually make use of this murdering somebody who needs to get got.
These three gods make up the Triad, who are your goody goody power bloc.
Is there anything else specific you know about your character, aside from Justice?
>>45739431
1. Find stick
2. Position at ass hole
3. Get hammer wielding dwarf to assist you
>>45739659
Not really. Young man who wants to be a hero all his life, takes his holy orders at the first opportunity, and gets brought along on a quest to kill "some fag starting shit on the other side of the continent" after proving himself with some smaller missions.
>>45738655
If a good and just god objectively exists, there is no difference unless you're a fedora who cannot stomach religions in a fictional setting.
>>45738655
Yes because that's exactly what a paladin is
Most paladins are deeply religious but there power is drawn directly from there lawful goodness.
>>45739693
What do we know about the fag? What region is he from? Who is he questing along side?
>>45739716
I just don't wanna be held back by divine politicking if there's evil that needs to be given the long dick of the law right in front of me.
>>45739636
>fixed all the dumb shit
Except the one thing that holds the forgotten realms back from not being a steaming pile of shit.
A deitie with a divine rank above 20.
>>45739741
Standard issue big bad, may or may not be an awakened ancient evil. Think Garland from FF1.
>>45739746
If there's evil to be smiten but your God is being a dick about it just say fuck you God and smite the evil.
Then investigate why your God is trying to do this and if nesecary stop worshiping them due to a new understanding of them or start fighting them if they are turning evil.
>>45738921
It's in every edition I'm pretty sure
I know there's no requirement for a God in 3e.
>>45739801
Of course in any edition a completely irreligious character is rather odd you don't need to be overly devout but a little here and there never hurts.
>>45739746
>>45739759
Then you want Torm.
>Salvation may be found through service. Every failure of duty diminishes Torm and every success adds to his luster. Strive to maintain law and order. Obey your masters with alert judgment and anticipation. Stand ever alert against corruption. Strike quickly and forcefully against rot in the hearts of mortals. Bring painful, quick death to traitors. Question unjust laws by suggesting improvement or alternatives, not additional laws. Your fourfold duties are to faith, family, masters, and all good beings of Faerûn
Not mentioned: Torm exhorts his followers to be wary of corruption of those in power - there is never an excuse for doing the wrong thing, no matter if you're 'just following orders'. It's basically a 'fuck you, nah' clause in Torm's code, related to the events of the Godswalk aka Time of Troubles, where Torm's church actually misled his mortal embodiment and caused him to unjustly persecute other faiths. When Torm found out he basically wrecked his entire churches shit, asked a city for the power to defeat BANE (the big bad baddie God pre Cyric) and accepted the voluntary sacrifice of his faithful in the city of Tantras. Their souls acting like a magic spirit bomb, Torm absorbed their power which allowed him (a then minor diety) to go toe to toe with and kill Bane, a greater power, at the cost of his own life. Torm would later be ressurected by the Overgod Ao for being too based to allow to die, and risen in power and rank. The children of those who sacrificed themselves in Tantras were taken in by the church and became known as the Martyr's Progeny, and it's said Torm watches over them personally out of gratitude to their parents.
>>45739844
Damn son that's hype as shit.
>>45739757
Actually?
Everything he ever did or decreed has just been undone and the deities have become 1e-style "not directly fucking around in mortal affairs too much" again.
Ao basically went and got fucked by the editor, which is excellent since he is the Deity of Being Fucked By The Editor.
>>45739844
>>45739867
cont: Torm's knights have three 'Duties' in addition to their code
The Penance of Duty, which is a debt to the aforementioned persecuted religions. Basically Knights of Torm offer their services freely to temples of other Faiths, and can generally be called upon to guard and help any other goodly religion.
The Debt of Destruction, which is a calling to seek out and help repair area's of dead or wild magic, since Torm blames himself for the death of Mystra and the chaos that followed
and The Debt of Dereliction, which calls on the followers of Torm to seek out and destroy cults and churches of Bane and Cyric, as Torm considers it his personal responsibility to destroy them.
Torm is seen as the generic god of good niceness a lot of the time, but I like to point out one of his titles is the Loyal FURY. He's the General of Tyr's armies and I basically see him as the patron god of Mercing fuckers. His church doesn't get along well with Helms, which is ironic because Torm and Helm get along fine and are friends. Helm is of course, the God of Getting Shit Done. If you want something more morally grey/stoic you want Helm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qC2P7QYjaE
>>45739871
Really in that case I might check it out if he has little roll in the setting it may be possible to just throw him out and then I might be able to make good use of the setting.
Will still stick with greyhawk as my main setting though.
It would be nice to see something good come out of 5e
>>45738979
>http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/115905/Stats-for-Jesus
you can now feature Christ as a Boss encounter...or as the villain in your campaign...
>>45740108
Well, you gotta get fites for high-cosmic campaigns somewhere. Caine and neutronium golems get old after a while.
>>45740008
They also "un-shrunk" the Realms and seemed to be taking a bit more "hands-off" approach to it (adding a metaplot to it in the early 00's was such a huge fucking mistake, metaplots stopped being enjoyed or good selling points 6 years earlier) akin to 1e.
Stuff has changed, but the way it's changed has sort of reversed the setting back to somewhere between 2e and 3e with some 4e elements that don't disrupt the setting too badly.
And most of the major NPC's have been either removed or nullified and turned into ACTUAL Backround characters again.
It's not as detailed as it used to be, but now it's close enough to 1e and 2e that I can use the old sourcebooks and just change some names around. Which is a good thing in my book because those are some REALLY good setting material books.
Why don't you challenge yourself and play a lawful good character that doesn't act good in exchange for magic powers and play a lawful good character just for the self satisfaction?
>>45740215
Because nothing tells dumons to go fuck themselves quite like a well-placed Smite.
I mean, you can get it done with a normal sword but they don't writhe quite as much.
>>45740215
>play a lawful good character just for the self satisfaction?
I'm playing a wizard who acts like a hero because it's the right thing to do. I find it quite satisfying.
>>45740108
Please can I touch the lizard
>>45741157
Or failing that, if they don't let you have guns, all you need is a rench.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNuEHUhTkKM
>>45738655
be a detective and become javert.
>>45739003
Just replace "a god" with "elemental plane of lawful good." There you go.
Or I guess if this is Faerun you could be a Paladin of Ao,
>>45741431
>rench.
>>45744297
Does Ao even grant powers to mortals?
Do mortals even know he exists?
>>45744984
They know he's around, but most people figure praying to him is pointless.
>>45746293
>gods receive every prayer, even if they choose to do nothing about it
>make it your life's work to bring the bantz to Ao, with the ultimate goal of him getting so sick of the constant burns that he throws a lightning bolt at you
>>45738664
Paladins don't need to have a god.
Which edition are you playing?
>>45738655
>I want to be a hero of justice
This is a Paladin.
>rather than a hero of God.
This is a Cleric.
>Is paladin still my best bet?
Yes.
>>45744984
>Does Ao even grant powers to mortals?
No.
>Do mortals even know he exists?
Yes, since the Time of Troubles.
If you pray to him you get nothing out of it and probably don't get a fun afterlife if you die and instead get sent to the Abyss or Nine Hells.
He does nothing and says nothing and grants nothing and contributes nothing except handing down nonsensical dictatorial decrees that only make sense to him and and cause problems for absolutely everyone. L
He is very much the literal embodiment of Editorial Bullshit, and as of 5e he seems to have gone completely silent and a lot of the consequences for his arbitrary decisions and weird rulings have been completely undone.
>>45746412
If this is FR, yes you need to have a god as a paladin.
Also if you don't pick a god in FR in general, you get shoved into a wall when you die.
>>45746589
>Also if you don't pick a god in FR in general, you get shoved into a wall when you die.
I forgot about this bullshit. I was thinking Greyhawk rules.
>>45746589
>If this is FR, yes you need to have a god as a paladin.
>tfw I've been DMing a campaign in FR for ~6 months now and only one player has chosen a god so far
>tfw that player is not the paladin
Shit.
>>45746971
>paladin describes himself as "spiritual, but not religious"
>>45747042
Personally if anyone's paladin said that in a game I was DMing, I'd immediately revoke their paladinhood. The gods don't like new age faggotry.
>>45747138
What if that's the MO of some upstart deity fresh off the boat from Earf. "We're the religion for non-conformist trailblazers like yourself, and we only tithe 9%."
>>45747042
He's honestly just all about that WAAGH, honestly. Smitin' makes him feel good.
The only time he was ever spiritual was when he realized he didn't have any pages of "holy scripture" for spell components, so he visited a random temple and got mobbed by a giddy and overenthusiastic cleric.
She was so excited that somebody (an adventurer, at that! Wow!) actually wanted to read her brochures full of quotes from sacred text that she wasn't even intimidated by the fact that he had at least three feet on her in height.
but seriously, how do I fix this? Should I just have NPCs telling him to get him to a seminary? It really looks like I should do more research on the setting myself.
>>45747138
In many editions, paladins don't really have to pledge themselves to a God to receive their powers, just to a cause. In 5e this is in RAW.
>>45747192
Set up a random encounter where pamphlet girl tracks him down and tries to convert him.
>>45738655
>Wishes to define an ethical framework that is of greater moral meaning than ordinary laws of man while simultaneously denying a creator that is greater than man
>Thinks that his laws are better than their laws because he thinks his laws sound nicer
>Fails to realize that by denying the notion of a greater being than man, he cannot logically support the notion of a greater morality, only exchange one human value for another
It's the grave you chose, autistheist.
>>45746360
I actually have a story exactly like that, involving a goddess of harvest and a bard.
If this thread will be still up after I wake up, I'll share it with you, guys.
