>Game studies, ludology or gaming theory is a discipline that deals with the critical study of games. More specifically, it focuses on game design, players, and their role in society and culture. Game studies is an inter-disciplinary field with researchers and academics from a multitude of other areas such as computer science, psychology, sociology, anthropology, philosophy, arts and literature, media studies, and communication.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_studies
Is this a scam?
In what sense? I'm sure you would learn some things.
If you're asking "should I go to college for this so that I can get a job?", I would say no for pretty much any creative enterprise. Video game developers, tabletop designers etc. are relatively tiny fields where individual capability and connections matter much more than a piece of paper. Going to college to design games is like going to college to be a pop star, there are just so few people doing it and your chances are miniscule + reliant on your own entrepreneurship, and that aspect of the industry is tiny.
Learn things like mathematics, engineering, etc. that you can apply to pretty much anything for a well round education that will help you in making games and more. And in case you don't become another Monte Cook.
>>45706693
>In what sense?
"Critical study" usually means learning to undermine ideological enemies through the careful misreading of their trusted sources.
People join these programs unaware that they are enlisting in a broader culture-war.
>>45706693
It's not game design. It's the humanities. Some is math. But it isn't a trainee program for anything, it's science.
>>45706475
>believing in the jew study scam
what do you think?
Get a dictionary and look up the word "scam", because you don't seem to have the faintest clue what that word means.
If that doesn't answer your question, then just don't worry about it, and go take up long distance running instead.
>>45707216
>humanities
>science
lewl. whether it's the technical aspects of game design or just humanities bullshit with no application, neither is gonna get you on a team at WoTC etc.
>>45706475
It's a field of academic study, there's no way for it to be a scam.Game design programs are mostly a scam though.
The only application I could see a with this degree is to get a job having Twitter arguments over vidya.
>>45707333
Political science won't get you into congress. Comparative lit won't make you an author. I don't see your point. It seems you might be confused about what science does.
>>45707333
If you're involved in game studies you're either already in or on track to a career in academia, it has nothing to do with trying to get a job at a game company.
>>45707333
It's multidisciplinary involving a range of several sciences, and several humanities disciplines. Mathematical or anthropological analysis of games is definitely science, the humanities approaches don't claim to be science, because they're studying them as literature.
>>45707422
APPLIED SCIENCE ONLY SCIENCE! STEM MAKE BILLIONS OUT OF DOOR!
>>45706869
What the fuck does this mean?
>>45707398
It would go nicely with a degree like anthropology, history or archaeology. But you have to make a conscious decision to stay in academia, rather than hope it'll give you appeal on the mass job market.
>>45707422
My point was that there are more useful things to study if you want to make games, like how to make games. Study means whatever works to teach you and not automatically college.
Basically, this
>>45707398
>>45707390
>colleges aren't full of nonsense degrees
yeah I heard womens studies is a really rigorous discipline with many uses
>>45707509
More idiocy. Ignore it.
As for OP, I don't see this getting you a job, but games are a fascinating study of cultural inclinations.
You can tell a far bit about a civilization from their pasttimes, especially if they are still actively enjoyed or survived the ages.
>>45707490
The whole STEM vs Humanistic thing is more along the lines of:
With STEM, even if you're below average student barely passing classes, you will easily find employment.
With humanistic, you need to be at least average, otherwise you're burger flipper.
>>45707509
You will note that proponents of critical theory will never subject Marx, Lacan, or Foucault to their scurrilous analysis.
>Critical theory is a school of thought that stresses the reflective assessments and critique of society and culture by applying knowledge from the social sciences and the humanities. As a term, critical theory has two meanings with different origins and histories: the first originated in sociology and the second originated in literary criticism, whereby it is used and applied as an umbrella term that can describe a theory founded upon critique; thus, the theorist Max Horkheimer described a theory as critical insofar as it seeks "to liberate human beings from the circumstances that enslave them."
>>45707566
>if you want to make games
Who said anything about wanting to make stuff?
>>45707639
And what do you want? To be some sort of professional card player like in Yu-Gi-Oh?
>>45707611
>You will note that proponents of critical theory will never subject Marx, Lacan, or Foucault to their scurrilous analysis.
You can google for that shit, anon.
It exists, because anything can be subjected to a critical theory analysis.
>>45707674
Worked for poker.
>>45707674
>And what do you want?
Intellectual stimulation through the study of games?
>>45707639
Nobody did, I just assumed we all knew that taking a class on having hot opinions about le cultural impact of games is a massive waste of time.
>>45707566
Just because you feel like a field of academic study isn't worthy of study does not make it a scam. Completely bypassing the inevitable STEM master race argument, your opinion that a field of study is not worth the time spent on it does not mean that it's a fraud.
>>45707693
>It exists, because anything can be subjected to a critical theory analysis.
In theory, yes. In practice, no.
You won't find "critical" academics unearthing hidden Christian subtexts in the epistles of Stalin. I am quite certain of it.
>>45707693
Lot more money in casinos and poker than in children's card games anon.
>>45707581
The other big STEM vs everything else job opportunities I've seen as my older friends have graduated is that in STEM, you are more likely to get a job related to what you actually studied
>>45707702
>massive waste of time
Until we come into contact with an alien race that communicates solely through games, and you are chosen to go through the portal and meet their Queen?
>>45707773
>You won't find "critical" academics unearthing hidden Christian subtexts in the epistles of Stalin. I am quite certain of it.
Not everything can be found everywhere within reasonable leaps of logic.
You won't find critical academics on that because the underpinning of a thing is too weak to justify it.
For that matter, I'm sure they exist, but that doesn't mean they were published.
>>45707611
Dude are you serious right now? You're salty about /critique/? This is a truly new phase of ignorance. Yea, I am struck to my heart.
>>45707796
>Lot more money in casinos and poker than in children's card games anon.
Poker started out as a simple pasttime that blew up into a multi-million dollar industry.
>>45707699
You can do that by yourself
>>45707888
Sounds like a scam.
>>45707773
>Christian subtexts in the epistles of Stalin
No, but one googling found me multiple critical examinations of the Christian subtext in the writings of Stalin-era novelists.
>>45707888
Same could be said about soccer, ice hockey, vidya, movie industry...
>>45707566
Your point's as dull as you are.
>>45707888
People GAMBLE on poker, though.
>>45707939
The academic milieu and the conversations and lectures that take place within it help expose a person to different ideas.
>>45707888
Yah, but poker now is pretty much the same as it was back then. Either way, a good hobby makes a poor living.
So what is this thread even about?
>>45707997
>>45707978
Except, of course, vidya. Because the fans don't have any money to gamble.
>>45707882
Critique is a dark strike on our values, anon, but only when my strawman concept of leftists do it. When my idealized concept of right wing scholars do it, it's the uncovering of truth. Reverse the labels as necessary every 50 years.
>>45707978
So you are proving my point for me?
It did, however, take years for all of that to happen, well after any stigmas against the games dissolved.
>>45707997
My local flgs has a bookie who takes bets on magic games.
>>45708002
>So what is this thread even about?
It's a shitthread, anon, don't you know that already?
>>45708028
A ton of organized crime type people in South Korea were just recently arrested for match fixing starcraft. They were fixing matches because of massive gambling payoffs.
When organized crime has started fixing games to profit off of gamblers, you know it's hit the big time.
>>45708087
>>45708079
These posts contain much good news.
>>45708042
>When my idealized concept of right wing scholars do it
Have you ever met a right-wing academic? They barely exist.
>>45707581
I'm fully aware. And I certainly hope only people who should study humanities go into humanities if it's obvious it's not cheap ticket to moneytown like it used to be 20 years ago. They can go be terrible architects.
>>45707796
>Lot more money in casinos and poker than in children's card games anon.
Academic study is practiced for its own sake, not for the potential commercial applications of the research.
>>45708224
>Have you ever met a right-wing academic?
They're called economists.
>>45707999
Certainly, but I'm not quite sure of what level of academic conversations can be achieved in the field so far.
I get the feeling that people from another fields have more interesting stuff to say about games than people that only study games.
>>45708313
You'd be suprised how many change their mind after the last 30 years.
Then again, macroeconomy as a field of study is about as scientific as theology.
>>45708326
>I get the feeling that people from another fields have more interesting stuff to say about games than people that only study games.
Right, and you meet these people in academia.
>>45708326
Well the studies used to cast serious doubt on the idea that video games are causally linked to violence could easily be considered part of the field. In fact the entire discussion of how much and in what ways games influence their players is a fairly high level discussion backed with research on both sides.
Categorization of games and other anthropological analysis of the origins of various kinds of games is also a rather complex subject.
>ctrl+f
>'cultural marxism'
>0 results
frankly I'm surprised /tg/. I was under the impression that any discussion of non-STEM education quickly devolved into assertions that academics were ruining Western Civilization.
So for comparison, what's the youngest academical branch presently? As in most recently established field.>inb4: women studies
>>45708437
Yeah no, you're right, he's just attacking "critical theory" as a concept. It's refined itself somehow.
>>45708437
Generally /tg/ tends to be one of the less /pol/luted boards in my experience.
>>45708485
obviously I think it's absolutely good to disagree with the various schools of critical theory. However, attacking academics because they 'practice' critical theory is a bit strange. Attack the conclusions or the methods or the assumptions, that's kinda the purpose of discourse.
>>45708437
>academics were ruining Western Civilization
Well, there's the part where bunch of local academicals signed pro-immigration petition...
>>45708326
>Certainly, but I'm not quite sure of what level of academic conversations can be achieved in the field so far.
Which means we shouldn't work on it. Which means the field will never get past this point. So the whole thing's just doomed. It's a scam. And every other field really has been at that point too, so fuck those fucking scammers too.
>I get the feeling that people from another fields have more interesting stuff to say about games than people that only study games.
Trivia: what field someone in academia studies isn't anything like a conscious choice or so. Instead it's determined by species. So someone in ludology can only study ludology, has never studied anything else, and will never study anything else. And should someone of another academical species, say a linguist, write about games then that work will be a linguistical one, not a ludological one.
>>45708484
Not quite sure but it isn't women's studies. It's not a discipline in and of itself but you might look at the trend towards multi/inter/cross-disciplinary study as a whole as it.
>>45706475
It's a scam the way film studies is a scam, I guess. If you want to become an academic or reviewer then it seems fine, but if you want to be productive inside the medium there are better things to learn.
>>45707566
Did you know that 50% of people are women?
>>45708600
>academicals
That's the formal wear that people wear to graduations and stuff.
You can just say academics.
As far as I'm concerned immigration/refugees are the price we are paying for a higher quality of life. If it's bad elsewhere, it's rational to want to move somewhere good. Further, I don't think immigration as such is bad, where I live about 30% of the GDP of my nation is directly attributable to immigrants. What I do think is mistaken is how the state intends to integrate immigrants, and the social services available to new immigrants.
>immigration = not by necessity bad
>lack of integration = necessarily bad
>lack of state support for immigrants = necessarily bad
>lack of local/community integration = necessarily bad
>>45708414
Those can be pretty interesting subjects, but I'm not sure if they're complex enough to require the development of a whole new field, at least not yet.
If we use the example of violent behavior, it could be perfectly studied by a psychologist, anthropologist or sociologist since it's a study based in behavior, while a jack of all trades may have a broader spectrum to understand the development of games but his study would focus, for example, in what would violence mean in the whole history of games.
I'm not saying that such study is useless long term, but specialists are better equipped for such studies at least until we have enough theory to justify the existence of specialists in games: I'm mostly worried about the lack of specialized knowledge and theory.
>/tg/ defending womens studies tier academic circlejerkery of traditional games now and not knowing that anybody producing coherent games or opinions on games would choose to remain rationally ignorant of such bullshit, despite all this smug posting about economics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_ignorance
where were you when teeg jumped the shark
>>45708591
But then that itself would be critical theory, and thus the cycle of abuse continues.
>>45708861
Getting a better shark saddle, it seems.
Also, not american, so how do minor/majors work?
>>45708843
Game Studies is an interdisciplline. It's just various specialists from different fields working together on a common subject.
>>45708893
haha welcome to academia
it's nonsense all the way down
>>45708736
Whoops, that's my ESL showing.
>If it's bad elsewhere, it's rational to want to move somewhere good. Further, I don't think immigration as such is bad, where I live about 30% of the GDP of my nation is directly attributable to immigrants. What I do think is mistaken is how the state intends to integrate immigrants, and the social services available to new immigrants.
Agreed, it's understandable that people want to do better. And yeah, when related issues are properly addressed, immigration is not a problem per se. But lately the situation has been getting out of hand as far as addressing those issues goes.
>>45708942
>how do minor/majors work
A minor is a secondary academic discipline in undergraduate education that has lower standards than a major. A lot of people prepare for their career with their major and minor in something out of personal interest. Some people may use a combination of two courses of study that are both related to the career they want to pursue if there's not a dedicated degree available for it.
If someone completes enough material to qualify for two majors that's a double major (as long as they're part of the same degree.)
>>45709028
only for the humanistic field
fot STEM, it's math all the way down
>>45708591
I just attack everything, we're going to get somewhere at some point.
I hope
>>45708843
>but I'm not sure if they're complex enough to require the development of a whole new field, at least not yet.
The division of research into distinct fields is arbitrary and artificial. Game studies is its own field because we've defined it as such. We can turn it into a different field simply by changing the keywords we've slapped onto the articles.
>>45708843
>I'm not saying that such study is useless long term, but specialists are better equipped for such studies at least until we have enough theory to justify the existence of specialists in games
So, wait, are you saying that specialists in ludology would be better here than psychologists, anthropologists, etc? Because we can't really have any of those before people have had time to specialize in this field you know. Or is it all the other specialists you'd think are better equipped to do the research at the moment? Because it seems they ARE the people doing the research at the moment, since we don't really have any ludological specialists yet.
> Game studies is an inter-disciplinary field with researchers and academics from a multitude of other areas such as computer science, psychology, sociology, anthropology, philosophy, arts and literature, media studies, and communication.
>>45709099
Seems to be working out pretty well for Trump if nothing else.
>>45707390
The scam lies in convincing people to pay for something that is utterly useless.
>>45709185
Except that they aren't misrepresenting anything. Nobody is being tricked.
Are PhDs worth it?
>>45709253
Welcome to the current internet lingo. Don't like something? Scam. Think a price tag is a bit high? Scam. Intentionally trying to trick someone out of a lot of money? Fuck knows what to call that, we'll probably have to invent a new word.
>>45709091
Thanks.
>>45709185
Every american piece of university carboard is usefull, get here to southamerica! were the having an accent will get you a job of at least thrice the minimal wage! so... 12000USD, 15k-17k with diploma.
I've seen it happen, it only needs to be slightly related to whatever you are doing.
>>45706475
Not really a scam, just pretty useless. You may get a job but it'll suck. Like trying to do well with a bachelors in Science (I'm on like 0.50 over minimum wage, which is unfortunately normal) or theology, most the humanities and English. Of course there are exceptions and you may do well for yourself.
>>45709328
if you can earn a comfortable living with it, sure
>>45706475
No, it's a thing.
I was taught the basics of game theory in an Arthurian Literature class.
Here's the gist:
>Game=activity arbitrated by rules or guideline in which the end result is victory.
>Players have a hirarchy based on skill levels
>Main goal is to progress to the next level by overcoming obstacles.
>By these three main points, a game can be derived from lawlessness.
It's pretty much common sense, and seems to exist for no reason whatsoever. It's only real application is judging the merit of a game, which in itself is rather /v/-tier stupid.
For instance, using Game Theory, I can prove that vidya RPGs are sub-par games, since they do not have a definitive end, nor do they result in a victory.
Obviously, I think that's bullshit logic, because the goal of an RPG is to roleplay, not win.
>TL:DR, Game Theory is stupid literary bullshit that exists so rules-laywers can justify their autism and argue about video games.
>>45709328
Depends on the field. In a lot of (perhaps most) cases PhDs are held by people who are involved in an academic career, in which they're more or less essential.
>>45706475
Can we just address the fact that, yes OP's picture is "head up the ass" relevant to topic, but the dude is seriously creepy? I mean, they don't look like they need help getting into position, and he's clearly getting a handle on their junk. Ick.
>>45709328
Depends on what kind of job you want to do for the most of your (economically productive part of) life.
>>45709429
Yes, and while we're on the subject, water's quite wet, and the sky tends towards blue on a clear day.
>>45708224
>I have no experience in academia.RaisedCatholic here. While they are currently outnumbered and largely in disciplines that deal with history or religion, there aren't as few right-wing academics as you would think. In particular, the highly orthodox Catholic magazine called The New Oxford Review frequently has guest pieces written by such people.
>>45709429
Nah, we're here to discuss games. Twitter is for virtue signalling.
>>45709407
And here I thought game theory was about nuclear brinksmanship.
>>45709373
>>45709428
>>45709446
I doubt I can earn a comfortable living with a PhD in architecture since I'm struggling already, but I've been involved in various researches at school and the dean has been pressuring me to get one, apparently to give my papers more weight. I guess I'll have to get one if I want to dedicate myself to academia.
>>45709538
Yeah, pretty much. Academia is a little silly.
>>45709429
pretty hot
>>45709479
They represent less than 10% of academics and tend to keep their heads down.
>>45706475
for what its worth OP, Anthropology is the most hirable major. its because it teaches you how to think outside of your own cultural lens. So maybe a major in anthropology with a focus or minor in game theory might be what you want?
>>45709407
That's not game theory. It might be whatever "gamING theory" is, or it might be one person's "theory of games".
GAME THEORY is the study of cooperation and competition between independent actors.
It's important for politics, economics, and a shit-ton of other disciplines. Things like The Prisoner's dilemma and so on are the core exercises.
>>45709407
Game Theory is not game studies.
