>>45705289
Magic is magic, some people just use their own instead of borrowing from the world around them.

>>45705289
the Forgotten Realms is the epitome of kitchen-sink worldbuilding I don't think you can ruin the flavour by adding anything

>>45705289
Do you allow wizards? Clerics? Druids?

Then yes, banning the far more balanced psionics if you allow that shit makes you an utter idiot.

>>45705289
Are you using 2e? Because if so, just ban psionics on the grounds that they're a clusterfuck you don't want to have to bother DMing rules for. Dunno how they well they work in WotC also known as pure shit editions but, before WotC, adding in Psionics meant the DM adding in steps and stats to every single encounter. It has always been very-firmly the DM's discretion.

>>45705289
If you plan on running underdark, mindflayer or drow stuff. I'd allow it. But you can ban it simply because you don't want to bother.

Honestly through it's not a big deal.

>>45705589
considering that psionics presents itself as "powers-that-are-totally-not-magic" both thematically and mechanically, even though it basically is magic by definition, is what leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Plus, belief in psychic powers is more of a 20th century thing. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be put in renaissancey fantasy settings, but to me its a flavour that better belongs in a game with Roswellian grays and genetically modified Soviet super-soldiers.

>>45706028
Ignore that anon. It's fine, guy. Don't like psionics? Drop 'em. D&D has always presented that as a choice for the DM to make. Hell, half the Dark Sun games I've played never even allowed them to players and had it more as NPC hand-waving than rules. Psionics are not integral to D&D the way wizardly and priestly magic are. It has always been something you have to inject, rather than remove.

>>45705289
>I dislike the idea of psionic-using people in highly magical settings

>I dislike the idea of people shooting fire from their hands by spending their energy.
>I prefer doing it the normal way: The laws of reality on Earth (or a world similar to Earth) changed one day so that scientific knowledge warped reality, which caused modern civilization to collapse. Millenia later, the survivors can shoot fire from their hands by memorizing how people used to make gunpowder and letting the knowledge burn itself from their minds.

D&D magic is really goddamn weird. D&D psionics is how magic works in 99% of fantasy stories outside of D&D.

>>45705289
no

psionics are more sci-fi/punk

you're well within your right to make them play casters

I hate being among the ranks of dms nowadays.

Large amounts of whom have no idea about the setting and systems that they are using.

>>45706192
I wasn't aware that was what it was. Is that just Vancian magic as how it was originally presented by the author? If so, probably isn't what it is in most D&D settings.

I'd rather just make all magic point/energy-based, though that might make a lot of unnecessary work.

>>45706028
>"powers-that-are-totally-not-magic" both thematically and mechanically, even though it basically is magic by definition
Magical effects usually involve manipulating or directing a latent energy (often called "the weave of magic"), or by redirecting a sliver divine power to do it, or just by pushing the divine power in a similar way.

Psionic abilities don't usually interact with that (depending on the ability, edition, and setting; it *is* kind of a clusterfuck).

But ultimately this is all beside the point: if you don't want it in your game, don't use it.

>>45706406
Care to elaborate?

>>45706445
No. He's just a shitposting retard.
>nowadays
It's the grogs whose attitude has always been "it's ok to say 'oh fuck that'" to psionics.

>>45706514
I think that post might have been supporting psionic use.

If not, he is a retard because Forgotten Realms has psionic races and psionic rules in dnd systems have been fixed for some time and are preferred by most.

>>45706407
>I wasn't aware that was what it was. Is that just Vancian magic as how it was originally presented by the author? If so, probably isn't what it is in most D&D settings.
That is exactly what it is in most D&D settings. Why do you think the material components for a fireball are bat guano and sulphur?
The main difference in FR is that you need to connect to a sort of magical Internet to do the processing for you.

>I'd rather just make all magic point/energy-based, though that might make a lot of unnecessary work.
Good news, anon! There's already a complete system for that, with all the kinks worked out. Just remember: the maximum number of mana points you can spend on a single spell is equal to your caster level.

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>>45706235
>Vancian Magic is copypasted from a sci-fi book series and relies on knowledge of scientific formulas
>Psionics is copypasted from Buddhist mysticism
>Psionics is more sci-fi than magic

>>45705289
I have the same rule, I don't think psionics fit into settings like Greyhawk or FR. Dark Sun, Planescape or Eberron, no problem.

>>45706167
>Broken-ass garbage is integral, that's why you should keep it and not allow the actually balanced stuff!

Fuck you.

>>45705289
>I don't think it fits
>Crystals, power deriving from some concept of a soul, and magical tribal tattoos aren't fantasy enough for my Euro-centric idea of robes and wizard hats.

>>45706850
Except it's not. Vancian magic is the starting place for D&D magic, but it's not how D&D magic works. D&D magic draws arcane forces from the inner planes.

If your setting has Monks using Ki, your setting can have Psions.

>>45707068
It's Forgotten Realms, so arcane magic uses crystals more than psionics does. You can stick them on wands to get bonuses depending on the type of crystal, create special types of golems out of them, etc.

>>45706698
>That is exactly what it is in most D&D settings
That sounds pretty outlandish as far as Forgotten Realms goes, but then again I don't know the setting's early history super well. I guess I have some reading to do.

>>45706698
>There's already a complete system for that
Compatible with 5e?

>>45707197
>but then again I don't know the setting's early history super well.
Neither does that anon. He read on /tg/ once that D&D uses Vancian magic and took that idea WAY too far. D&D magic uses the basic features of it, but does not explain itself to the point that it's a clone of Vance's system.

Btw. as a general note to people in this thread; I'm aware Forgotten Realms canon supports psionics, but its not something I prefer thematically.

To me, its kind of like if George Lucas added another type of power on top of The Force to the Star Wars universe. I don't see a reason to convolute things. Not super against it though, still trying to be open-minded since I do want my players to have fun and do their thing.

>>45707099
>D&D magic draws arcane forces from the inner planes.
Hasn't done that in a while either.

>>45707235
>Btw. as a general note to people in this thread; I'm aware Forgotten Realms canon supports psionics, but its not something I prefer thematically.
FR has no theme. At all. It's a "Make your own, we have something for it" pseudo-setting.

>>45707282
Yeah, but I refuse to acknowledge post-2e.

>>45707235
So file it away under the same force as Ki/Chi. Forgotten Realms has monks doesn't it.

And it's not like Psionics even convolutes the setting that much. Psionic powers don't have nearly as much world wrecking/narrative power that Arcane/Divine powers have. And since it's all internal, there isn't a whole lot happening on the metaphysical level either.

FR is kitchen sink as fuck anyway.

>>45707327
>Yeah, but I refuse to acknowledge post-2e.
Oh, you're one of those people. Carry on. Maybe lose the beard.

>>45707099
>>45707282
Well, each setting is different. D&D is a system that has rules for spellcasting but doesn't define where magic comes from on its own.

>>45707282
>>45707327
What? Doesn't the Weave tap into the energy of the Planes?

>>45707350
>And it's not like Psionics even convolutes the setting that much. Psionic powers don't have nearly as much world wrecking/narrative power that Arcane/Divine powers have. And since it's all internal, there isn't a whole lot happening on the metaphysical level either.
In my settings Psionics are essentially what Gods use, except on a much smaller scale. So a Cleric is essentially channeling Psionic power from the divine battery that is his god.

>>45707197
The point the guy is making is that people act like the D&D Arcane magic rules are somehow cleaner than psionics, but, if you pay attention to the material components of spells, they're jokes or references to how you make those effects in reality. Fireball's components are the basic ingredients for gunpowder, Lightning Bolt's are from the first experiments to make electricity, etc. This is because a recurring joke in Early D&D was "this is a post-apocalypse" you would find ray guns, and "artifacts" that were just modern stuff.

And Forgotten Realms' arcane magic all uses The Weave, a network of energy created, run, and personified by the setting's goddess of magic. When she vanishes or dies, (as she has a couple times), magic goes bonkers for a while.

>>45707307
But as a DM I can give theme and flavour to it. If I want it to feel like a Eurocentric medieval fairy tale, or a Tolkienesque epic, its my prerogative. Its not so much what I can do for Forgotten Realms, more what can Forgotten Realms do for me.

>>45707409
>But as a DM I can give theme and flavour to it. If I want it to feel like a Eurocentric medieval fairy tale, or a Tolkienesque epic, its my prerogative. Its not so much what I can do for Forgotten Realms, more what can Forgotten Realms do for me.
That's a perfectly valid approach, it just rustles me how you (?) implied it was a set in stone monolithic thing rather than a grab bag of bullshit.

>>45707382
So instead of a god, they're using they're own smaller, less potent reserve.

>>45707395
Maybe the anon's wording was more joking that I realized. It makes sense that this was the origin, I get it now. A few tongue-in-cheek references with the material components

>>45707350
You make a fair point, I fully support the use of monks.

>>45707436
I don't set out to rustle anyone, I'm only speaking for what I'd like to do, not what everyone else should

>>45705289
I would point out that in the story and lore Forgotten Realms has a huge history of psionics. Not just in the underdark with Mind Flayers and entire Drow Houses, but also with one of Mephistopheles' sons and the old Human empire of Jhaamdath.

>>45707025
This is bait, utter bait, but here is your bite.

Dark Sun is built on the idea of magic bad, psionics good. Every living thing is psionic to some degree, or it was eaten by something that was.

Planescape is literally everything everywhere etc etc.

Eberron only has an entire continent, player race, outer plane, and long term plot-threat dedicated to psionics.

>>45705289
You would be slightly douchey, yes. But that is your prerogative. If you don't like psionics, you don't have to let players use them.

Of course, a bigger issue is the arbitrary line of distinction you make between one way of forcing your desire on reality through the power of your intellect, will, and knowledge, and the OTHER way of doing it.

If Psions aren't welcome, Wizards shouldn't be.

>>45707667
>Dark Sun, Planescape or Eberron, no problem..
Anon you just made an argument that agreed with him. He just doesn't like in in GH and FR

>>45707732
I cannot into reading comprehension, my apologies.

>>45707667
You, uh, missread him.

He said FR or Greyhawk no, the others no problem.

>>45707518
The setting is called "Forgotten Realms" because it was once in regular contact with Earth, but has since been forgotten.

>You make a fair point, I fully support the use of monks.
In 4e, monks are one of the classes under the Psionics power source.

Also lots of iconic monsters are psionic, like mind flayers and couatls and aboleths and yuan-ti and githyanki/githzerai.

OP here. After enough reading, I think it would be reasonable to allow my player to play a psionic character.

My issue now is that the 1st-party materials for this in 5e have classes that don't go beyond level 5 or 10, and I'm running a game where I'm not allowing multiclassing (the last few 5e games I've played or run with multiclassing, there was always at least one character that could basically assfuck gods)

3rd-party might be ok, always a little wary of how balanced they are though...

>>45705289
you would have shit taste but if you dont want psionics in your setting then go ahead and dont have them theres nothing that gm about it.

but like i said if you dont like them you have shit taste

>>45707925
Well god forbid an anon thinks I have shit taste. That was my main concern.

>>45707235
is it that you don't want sci-fi/punk powers?

or are you against spell/power points?

ask them which is the reason they want psionics.

If it's the first, say no, if it's the later, I have a spell point system for 3.5 magic that's VERY good

>>45705289
You're the DM. As long as you both don't act socially inept it's ok to say no.

>>45705289
Why do you hate psionics?

>>45708408
>is it that you don't want sci-fi/punk powers?
I am pretty sure there is nothing in D&D psionics that magic doesn't also do.

Spooky mind shit's been in D&D forever, sci-fi deciding they want in on that doesn't magically make it not fantasy.

>>45708493
I never said I hate them. My reasoning was:
>>45706167
>>45707235
...but after some discussion, I realized I'd be a bit of a hypocrite to not allow them.

>>45706028
yeah, Hindu mythology is so 20th century

>>45708663
Whoops, disregard the links in that post. My reasoning actually was:

>>45706028
>>45707235

>>45706028
Dnd psionics by default IS magic though. I dunno where you're getting your info from mate.

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>>45707395
One odd consequence of this:
>Early D&D is brought to Japan, remains niche.
>One guy's campaign journal becomes inexplicably popular, but in order to license it he has to create a new system just different enough from D&D to be legally distinct.
>Through this system, many ideas from D&D become embedded in the Japanese idea of Western fantasy: Ancient rayguns. Rangers who have no connection to nature, but can swordfight and heal and throw fireballs and are good at bringing different races together. Buddhist monks hanging out all over Europe. Etc.
>As new writers are brought into D&D, fewer and fewer have read the original source materials, and the game shifts in new directions. Because D&D was never that popular in Japan, this goes unnoticed there.
>D&D players are now only exposed to these things through anime and JRPGs, and try to keep them out of their games for being "un-D&D-ish".

If your reasoning is fluff, no you wouldn't be a douche to deny them, though keep in mind psionics can be refluffed as magic [there's like 8 forms of magic in D&D already, whats one more?] and psychic powers were a thing in mythology, as others in the thread have noted. It is NOT a modern idea.

If your reason is mechanics, you're pants on head retarded, any full caster is far more powerful. Just be sure to read the psionics rules carefully, so you don't do anything stupid like let him cast at a higher manifesting level than his character level.

>>45707511
>So instead of a god, they're using they're own smaller, less potent reserve.
Exactly-

>>45707580
>I don't set out to rustle anyone, I'm only speaking for what I'd like to do, not what everyone else should
Okay.
>>45707898
NICE

>>45708668
I mistook it for the fascination for mental powers in the western world throughout the 20th century. Didn't realize it had older roots

>>45708763
Thought detect and dispel magic didn't work on psionics, among other things

>>45709702
>Thought detect
literally what?
If you mean detect thoughts, psionic people don't magically not think.

>dispel magic
The default rule in 3.5 is transparency, which means yes it does work.
>http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#psionicsMagicTransparency
>All spells that dispel magic have equal effect against powers of the same level using the same mechanics, and vice versa.

>>45708763
>>45710145
psionic-magic transparency doesn't imply psionics is magic, just that they're treated the same for the purpose of rules. after all, if psionics was magic, it would be redundant to say there is transparency between them. the default position in D&D until 4e was always that psionics was something different from magic.

>>45710145
I thought* that detect and dispel magic...

I didn't realize 3.5 had that transparency rules. Either I'm getting my information from what I remember of another edition's descriptions, or I'm just remembering things completely wrong. If so, my complaint on the mechanics of it was just misinformed.

>>45710510
You're thinking of 2e, where there was a big clusterfuck of rules weirdness because psionics and magic didn't affect each other but there was nothing to actually explain what was supposed to happen in edge cases.

>>45705668
3.5 and on psionics is identical to spellcasting in terms of mechanical resolution, but with power points (e.g. mana) instead of spell slots, and powers that scale depending on how many points you spend on them.

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>>45707358
Actually they aren't The multiverse is on thing

>>45708811

I've always liked how Japanese style Western fantasy is both a time capsule of our old fantasy tropes and and its own distinct fork.

We're over here bitching about noble savage orcs while over in Japan they've pretty much never changed.

>>45716281
The multiverse is recognized in the core books, but I've never seen anywhere in any of those books (of at least 3rd edition and onward) that make a super specific proclamation that every setting abides by the same magical laws.

Even if it did, its really just a suggestion, and the settings do deviate. Only Forgotten Realms has The Weave, for example. There's nothing gamebreaking or un-D&D about skinning that type of lore differently for your own setting, just as other official D&D settings have.

>>45716822

In 2nd, they very specificaly DON'T. Magic on Greyhawk was NOT magic on Krynn, which was NOT magic on Athas, which was NOT magic in Ravenloft. They were all very distinct things, even down at a mechanical level.

>>45705289
Actually psionics has some strong history and grounding in Forgotten Realms, and it has been heavily suggested several times that the ancient Jamdaathan civilization used psionics quite heavily instead of magic.
Psionics in FR is kinda like being a Monk; there'd nothing inherently special or weird about being able to use it and literally anyone can do so, but it takes a lot of very esoteric training (physical in the case of the Monk and mental in the case of Psionics) to use them.
Though to be perfectly honest psionics even when you're using rules for them are a giant pain in the fucking ass to deal with because they're so mechanically different. 3.5 makes them even worse just pile 3.5 made everything more of a pain in the ass.

>>45716822

>3rd Edition Onwards
>Multiverse

I think I found your problem.

>>45707307
I feel bad for people who jumped onboard FR in 3e.
It used to be the most detailed setting in the game by far and actually has some sensible technological advancement (one sourcebook notes that within a decade most militaries will be moving on to using handguns and arquebusiers in battle), but then WotC's OCD desire to homogenize literally everything they own really watered it down.

It only became a setting known for it's shitty novels.

>>45705289
It should be fine for FR, existing in the setting and all that. However the real onus is whether they can make a character that it works with in setting.

>>45716903
There was some weird shit with the gods too when in came to Faerun.
Because of Ao's "no imported deities" tax it meant any God coming to Faerun was cutoff from his worshippers elsewhere, which meant even though Corellion and Moradin are the same Corellion and Moradin in other settings they didn't have access to their full reserves of power in Faerun.

Ao is like some kind of weird divine monopolist who spends all of him time levying huge import taxes on gods.