Is there a dragon god, that is not CE but is LE?
Someone I could replace Tiamat with because I do not want hurr-durr-evil BBEG?
>>45696931
make one up
>>45696931
You know you don't have to have a dragon God bbeg right.
If you do definitely want one though I can't think of any you may just have to design one but I would wait a while to see if anybody knows any.
Of course with that last line I realise your to much of a faggot to deserve my help but I'm going to help you out anyway because I'm nice like that.
>>45696931
As >>45697117 says.
Fucking make one.
>>45696931
Just say Bahamut got sick of just sisters shit and went postal
>>45696931
Consult Draconomicons for high level dragon bbegs. A few of them are normal E if not LE
>>45696931
TCHAZZER!
>>45696931
Bahamut.
Tiamat is Lawful Evil you doofus. She is also a genius who plans for the extremely long term.
Tiamat is Lawful Evil, you retard.
>>45697334
I was going to bring up the page number and everything to prove you wrong but your right she is lawful evil
I guess we just got so caught up in ops faggotry we forgot.
Why not homebrew one?
>>45696931
T I A M A T
I
A
M
A
T
>>45697358
Although she does have a +71 bluff maybe she convinced op she was chaotic evil as part of her schemes.
Maybe she knew we would realise maybe this is all according to keikaku. But for what purpose.
>>45697358
Why would miss "I literally want to rule the entire multiverse with my iron claw, everyone must serve me and pay tithes at all times" be chaotic?
>>45697374
She doesent like to talk about her teenage years.
I think OP wasn't talking about Tiamat being LE, but about her being just retarded in general.
OP here.
In 5e Tiamat is CE.
Totd Tiamat statblock.
Y'all are missing the point.
>caring about alignment
>>45697470
I don't think so, Tim.
![Banesymbol[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/q2mH6AO.jpg "Banesymbol[1].jpg")
>Not Picking the Biggest Guy as your god.
Anon pls.
>>45697492
>>45697526
>Tiamat, the dragon god, is LE
>Tiamat, the stat block, is a CE fiend
Yet another reason that Tyranny of Dragons is the worst 5e adventure.
>>45697536
OP here.
Yeah, I was shocked to see it. But it goes along fine with "hurr durr we loot and burn to get the hoard".
>>45697492
>>45697536
Clearly it's a wayward avatar, or just a powerful delusional mutant dragon.
>>45697533
Was getting killed during time of troubles part of his plan?
>>45697598
It was definitely part of Bhaal's.
>>45697585
Nah, it's legit Tiamat, resulting in a very fast TPK if the party fucked up during the rest of the adventure.
>>45697536
Is that the one with the skyrim style unwinnable dragon attack at the start.
>>45697629
Yes.
>>45696931
>thinks CE is hurr-durr-evil
Confirmed for hurr-durr. Jesus Christ lads, that's not how CE works at all.
Speaking of shitty adventures I had a horrible dream last night that they remade die vecna die for 5e and were pushing it really hard.
I don't even like 5e and it horrified me.
>>45697598
Of courshe!
>>45697664
Yeah It's very elaborate.
I'll take what I want and smash your face in if you donot give it to me.
>A chaotic evil character does whatever his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is hot-tempered, vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If he is simply out for whatever he can get, he is ruthless and brutal. If he is committed to the spread of evil and chaos, he is even worse. Thankfully, his plans are haphazard, and any groups he joins or forms are poorly organized. Typically, chaotic evil people can be made to work together only by force, and their leader lasts only as long as he can thwart attempts to topple or assassinate him.
its hurr durr evil
>>45696931
I don't know one.
take a dragon from mythology and stat hims as a LE God.
For example russian Zmei Gornich. Green 3 headed dragon.
For 3.5, Races of the Dragon pg149.
>>45697492
Simple, you ignore her shitty statblock and run her as the LE deity that she is. Because all I can think of for her being CE is that Wizards took a page from Paizo and welcomed on a bunch of designers and AP writers that don't actually know how the system works.
>>45697783
So would you also say terrorists, freedom fighters, weapons dealers and con artists are hurr durr? Because not a one of those is lawful and most could only be neutral at a stretch.
>>45698341
All of these are LE. They abide by their own code and quite clear goals.
Lawful = Structure. It does not mean obeying society norms
Chaotice = having no code, following spurs of the moment
Read up my quote again
>>45698341
>not lawful
Why not? Any of those could easily be LE depending on how they operate. Just because they're criminals doesn't make them Chaotic, though they could be if they're not properly organized and just went off to do those things without any planning.
Also, freedom fighters are more likely to be Good, so not sure why they're on the list.
>>45698380
Everyone has a code or set of beliefs. Unless your dealing with a fucking amoeba or a vegetable, people have preferences, personality, and patterns of behavior.
>>45698432
So Joker from Batman (movies) had a set of beliefs? Something beyond "I want to see world burn?"
>>45698432
>Everyone has a code or set of beliefs
"I do what I feel like at the current moment" isn't a code because its value fluctuates sporadically.
>>45698456
I don't know much about Batman, but from what I can glean.
>life is one big joke
>it doesn't take much for one man to become a monster
>if life is one big joke, than one should embrace that and laugh at it.
>>45698456
He has a mindset, that justifies his goal, so yes, kinda.
>>45698504
So everyone is Lawful then?
>>45698475
>I do what I feel like at the current moment
Everyone does that unless they have some magical compulsive collar on.
If someone obeys the law because it's a law, and they believe laws should be obeyed no matter what. They're doing what they want.
If someone obeys the law because doing what they would be inclined to do at that very moment would result in consequences that they would rather not deal with, they are doing what they want.
>>45698432
>>45698412
>>45698380
How the fuck is a terrorist lawful? Their whole purpose is to spread terror and chaos.
Are you people mentally defunct?
>>45698532
The point
-------------
Your head
>>45696931
Make Tiamat LE in your campaign. Problem solved. I believe she was LE in 1st edition anyway.
Paladian mother fucker
>>45698532
No, ideally the Law Chaos divide would be based on "Group Focused" vs "Individual Focused".
>>45698548
Terrorists use terror, fear, and chaos as a means to an end. Typically to enforce or enable a regime of their choice by showing people that this shit wouldn't happen under their rule.. A terrorist could be chaotic, but many more do these things because of some external dogma.
>>45698492
So? That's as much as any CE demon lord has. Just because they have a few patterns or personal views on the world doesn't mean they have a Code.
>>45698341
Terrorists: depends on the organization, but most likely political or religious. At least those at the top will be LE, planning and leading.
Freedom Fighters: Why are they even on here? Freedom is a cause that all from CG to LG would be fighting for.
Weapons Dealers: Always deliver, never fuck over a client, pay back those who wrong you, treat your contacts well. It's not hard to be a LE merchant.
Con Artist: Only/never con those in a particular group, no plans that result in physical harm, have a fallguy who knows and the plan and gets an extra cut if he does go to prison.
>>45698548
>How the fuck is a terrorist lawful?
See >>45698608
Also captcha really loves trees today. Are you trying to warn us captcha? Are the trees really LE?
>>45698548
Actually, ISIL is a great example of a Lawful Evil antagonist.
Strict codes, by-the-book executions in public places, conquest, all the usual indicia of LE.
>>45698589
But that's not what being chaotic is. Look at chaotic good and chaotic neutral; they still subscribe to codes. Demons in dnd have ideas, plans and codes just like Devils. Example, Demogorgon. It's ridiculous to assume that chaotic evil characters can have no thoughts, logic or rationality while other chaotic evil creatures do.
>>45698641
>>45698631
>>45698608
Being ce doesn't stop you from planning. Lots of demons plan and scheme. The Joker does. Alex DeLarge does.
>>45698532
Anyone who believes in something and isn't a fucking retard is Lawful, yes.
The marks of Chaos are seeking self-gratification, iconoclasm, or cynicism towards order and authority.
>>45698665
Yes, but if you have a coherent goal, you're probably lawful. Those people you named have plans that usually amount to "fuck errybody I'm da best" or "fuck errybody nobody's da best"
>>45698536
>Everyone does that unless they have some magical compulsive collar on.
>If someone obeys the law because it's a law, and they believe laws should be obeyed no matter what. They're doing what they want.
You're misinterpreting. "What you want in the current moment" fluctuates. If you believe the law should be obeyed in the every moment, then no matter what you want, that does not fluctuate.
Do you think humans are some sort of wanton hedonists and that they only obey the law because "they clearly want to obey the law"? No. Some people do not want to obey the law but do so anyway.
>>45698668
But selfishness and pride and vanity is neutral evil.
>>45698642
>Look at chaotic good and chaotic neutral; they still subscribe to codes
And those are personal codes of ethics and morality that they don't expect others to follow. A CN or CG person doesn't get their morality from a book, or a contract, or their family. They got through personal experience and reflection.
>It's ridiculous to assume that chaotic evil characters can have no thoughts, logic or rationality while other chaotic evil creatures do.
I agree, and I did not say that.
CN person does something because that's what they think should be done.
A LN person does something, because that's protocol.
And yes, there is overlap
>>45698683
>coherent goal
And "I want to come out on top, everyone else be damned" isn't coherent?
>>45698764
Sure it is. Although it indicates neither Law nor Chaos.
Asmodeus, the ultimate LE, is basically the guy who damns the entire multiverse to reach that goal.
And whatever ultimate CE god your edition has also holds that goal, he just aims for it via rage and howling fury.
>>45698740
>implying it isn't CE
Red Dragons are CE and they're the definition of selfishness, pride, and vanity, baka desu senpai
>>45698764
>HURR Ima bully everyone else arbitrarily
Pretty fucking Chaotic, son. You need a real motivation to improve yourself. Otherwise you're just another Chaosfag.
What anon fails to understand is that underlying reasons matter for alignment, not just end goals or results.
