Previous Thread >>45576243
http://pastebin.com/gsYUFPGD
Extra! Extra! Changeling: the Lost 2nd Edition in Open Beta! Extra! Read all about it! Extra! Extra!
http://theonyxpath.com/changeling-the-lost-tinkering-and-toying/
More Kiths:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2K8R3qXyDyoeDVLclY0SW1hWm8/view?usp=sharing
Fetches:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2K8R3qXyDyoSk5jRUphOHF6TzQ/view?usp=sharing
New Harvest rules:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2K8R3qXyDyoU1A0MmdEUFppcms/view?usp=sharing
chronicles of fagness
>>45605578
They're not all you lose though. Sometimes you are cured of your curse forever and vampires are wiped from the world. Sometimes you get to be the only vampires left in the world and do whatever the fuck you want. Sometimes you beat the shit out of Cain and get to bang Lilith. There are plenty of good endings
>>45605576
Damn it. It's catching on!
>tfw no crossover chronicle that lives up to the potential Assassin's Creed without any of the bullshit that got added later
>tfw no Mage/Mummy/Hunter/homebrew reincarnated guys extravaganza that spans the entirety of human history
kill me
>>45605691
What's the fun in banging Lilith if she's unable to feel love?
Also, where does it say you can?
we were only on page 6...
>>45605545
>>45605607
>>45605502
Play VtR2e.
>>45605581
http://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/32097/top-5-roleplaying-games-spring-2015
>>45605844
Both me and amatajakki have done ideas for that. I think my idea was better, though I haven't fleshed it out. But he probably knows Mummy better.
Why is this game trying to be Old World of Darkness again? The 90s are over. We don't need edgy, superpowered goths to fight THE MAN anymore
>>45606168
We need a world in which the edgy, superpowered goths ARE the man.
A gothocracy.
>>45606214
Would honestly be more interesting than the return to form.
>>45606214
Wasn't that just regular nWoD? All of the bad guy factions were edgy as fuck. I could see 1996 me rolling up a character just like any of them and casting them in a protagonist role.
Sup /cofd/, I need some help.
I'm working on a homebrew Bloodline for a game I'm running, and I'm having some trouble coming up with mechanics for their Bloodline Gift. They've already appeared in the game, but one of my PCs wants to become a member, so I need more concrete mechanics now.
It's a primarily Crone Mekhet bloodline based on the Volur from ancient Scandinavia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%B6lva) - seers who could enter trances that would give them visions of the future, who traveled around advising and divining the future for different Lords (for a fee). In the Bloodline's case, they're Acolytes who travel from domain to domain offering said divinations and advice to local cults (and other Covenants, if they'll take them and pay their fee).
Their Bloodline Gift is, naturally, their ability to see the future, which is driven by their Beast - they enter a sort of ritual trance akin to Frenzy, during which their Beast receives visions of the future and passes fragmented versions of them down to the vampire. I'm not sure how to best represent this mechanically, though - should it be a Cruac ritual? A Merit? I was thinking it should work somewhat like Auspex, in that it allows the player to ask the ST questions about future events, which he then answers though the character's Beast, but other than that I'm feeling stuck... What should the character have to roll? What should it cost?
>>45606214
"But I just want to listen to my New Order records in peace!"
"NOT GOTH ENOUGH"
>>45606168
CofD is literally distancing itself even more from WoD than 1e did
How powerful can a ghoul be?
I mean like in vampire politics, not physical strength. Or are most ghouls treated terribly?
>>45606392
Go home jay, you're drunk.
>>45606350
What about the intentional downscaling of power in 1e? Dudes of Legend was more than just satire, it also pointedly brought many of the problems of oWoD's powerscale into light.
>>45606066
Jokes on you, I /am/ atamajakki!
>>45606463
Problems like what?
>>45606424
? I thought I was asking a legitimate question.
What do you think the oldest domain/concilia/freehold/etc is?
I'd assume London is up there.
>>45606292
Make two or three fortune-telling Auspex devotions to represent their schtick, and give them Animalism or something for their 4th discipline.
>>45606532
I would also like to know.
>>45606511
For one thing, it's hard to have a game about serious drama, storytelling, and personal horror when your vampire powers are more reminiscent of a Katanatits Vampire movie.
>>45606684
>>45606463
>>45606350
2e makes supernaturals stronger, but it also gives them more problems. Most of their cool new powers are also not all that directly useful, and they can still be threatened by mortal issues. Except Werewolves.
>>45606767
The thing is that they didn't need to be stronger. 1e showed that unless the splat was fucking broken (werewolves) you were still very potent and useful.
>>45606873
Eh.
2e shows that being stronger doesn't mean you're a demigod.
>>45606953
It distances itself from the street to city level stories that 1e focused on. And that was a welcome change after the global conspiracy after global conspiracy of the old.
>>45606392
Ghouls are mostly regarded as property in vampire society; they might have power relative to other ghouls in standing under their regnant, but they won't have really any bearing on vampire political structure.
>>45606988
It doesn't, though. Yeah, you can become pretty damned powerful, but it's not right out of the gate and you're not really encouraged to do that, it's just something you can do. You also don't need to go all in to be useful like you did in 1e, and you can tailor yourself to what you want to do. Most of the major powers are also specifically useful or not very applicable in most situations.
>>45607078
>>45606392
Ghouls can have as much power as they need to. You won't likely see a Ghoul as a Prince or Primogen, but that's because they don't have the power to keep it up; by their nature they have to have someone pulling their strings. You also won't see one being the Sheriff, because that's a position that requires physical and supernatural strength that a ghoul doesn't have.
But general power? Yes, they can very much have that. They can also serve as a mouthpiece for the Prince and rule in his place, in some cases. I've got a ghoul that I made for no game in particular who's a "vitae addicted princess". She's the embodiment of a spoiled brat who knows how to play the game and enjoys having power while being a small fish. She's based on one of the sample characters or characters that are implied from the 2e corebook in the Ghouls section.
What sort of contracts would changeling's develop while enslaved by vampires?
>>45605576
>>45605567
So, you found a way to never be late to the thread. By creating it.
>>45607568
I actually made a series of Contracts once that was about Changelings faking being Vampires.
>>45608785
He's been jumping me so fast that he makes them when we're on page 6.
>>45609015
How can we stop him? Or are we too late?
What's a fae-touched bastet, WoDg?
Is here or exalted a better place to ask about trinity?
I think the games had some sort of plot to them, like adventure lead to abberent lead th aeon but i dont know exactly how.
>>45609130
We may be too late.
>>45609148
Bastet?
>>45609296
Sometimes this game is basically "Onyx Path general, but not Exalted"
>>45609296
>>45609834
Yeah, I use it to talk about Pugmire, Cavaliers of Mars, Scion, and Trinity sometimes. Perhaps one say they will all have their own generals.
Anyways, here's everything you wanted to know about Trinity's metaplot and more: https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?766512-In-Which-We-Spoil-the-Metaplots-of-RPGs&p=19436651#post19436651
>>45606556
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=oldest+city+in+the+world
tl;dr: Aleppo has good chances.
>>45610084
I stand corrected, it's more probably Jericho.
Once just lifted the Crow wholesale and made it into a vampire plot.
Worked out pretty well.
>>45606292
If you don't go the devotion route, make them some sort of holy sect in the Crone who automatically develop a minor understanding of Cruac even if they don't have it, with one ritual - your seeing ritual.
nWoD might be one of the few games you could turn into a Secret World style shitfight. Vampiric paratroopers airdropping into - wait, no, mages. Never mind.
>>45610253
Depends on the Mage. There might still be a Secret World style shitfight.
>>45610298
Nah. Paradox means the wide spread mystic shitheap isn't going to come to light. The abyss is far more subtle, short of the Prince.
Actually, maybe if you used the Prince breaking through in multiple locations as the Filth.
>>45606292
You could have it be a 1-5 dot merit. Make it require 1 aspux dot per dot into the merit.
Work it similarly too the Claws of the Unholy. Let it only work while they are under a frenzy let them ask questions or have bonuses in combat. A interesting ability could be that they go into a frenzy prior to a large or dramatic event, giving them clues to event to come.
>>45606292
Scandinavian myths are pretty hardcore. You could require them to keep a sacred grove and cut a wand to use their special discipline. Or like the gypsy curse vampires, take blood from something specific.
>>45606350
Im confused. Chronicles of darkness looks the same as the new world of darkness 2e it was before
I'm thinking of getting into WoD, anons. What are the best/worst game lines of oWoD and nWoD? Overall?
What'll be good for me, the newest of newfags?
>>45610647
It is 2e. 2e is very different from the tones and themes of oWoD, much more so than 1e was.
>>45609966
Speaking of are those three games, that is scarred lands, cavilers of mars, and pugmire, all brand new stuff onyx path is making? Ive heard about them bug never really looked in.
>>45610645
Ooh reading the future of someone you drink blood from would be cool as fuck.
>>45610685
Cavaliers of Mars and Pugmire are.
Scarred Lands is an old D&D/Pathfinder setting that White Wolf used to publish and I think OPP shares it with another company these days.
>>45610750
Make it part of their curse rahter than a feature. Everyone they feed off of they get flashes of their possible future. It's not always good, or always bad. Killing them grants knowledge of what would have happened if you didn't come along. Give them an addiction to sipping on people to see the future.
>>45610661
Mechanically speaking theres about as much differance between them as between a dnd edition barring 4e. It was really just an ironing out of bugs and cutting down on confusing stuff.
Story/setting wise it depends. If youre group tends to make their own stories and setting detail then new/chronicles is what you want. Its way more flexible in alot of ways. If you like having concrete people and places with nudges as to what type of stories you should run then old/classic is for you
>>45610661
Worst of oWoD: Changeling the Dreaming
Worst of nWoD: Beast the Primordialand I say it as a person who actually doesn't dislike Beast
Best depends, my faves are Changeling: the Lost and Demon: the Descent. Both Mages are pretty great, too. But you have to look for the themes you like.
>>45606511
Problems such as, well, if you weren't careful, the players might actually have fun.
1e CoD was definitely proof against that.
>>45610808
Oh god beast. How the fuck do you screw something up that much? It's actually worse than the fansplats.
>>45610808
I refuse to believe that anything can be worse than Geist.
....please let me be right.
>>45605567
I want to run a Mage: The Awakening game set in 19th century fin de sieclé Vienna.
The birth of the twentieth century & a significant shift of the European spirit, coupled with cataclysmic upheaval of class consciousness.
Would be a very interesting backdrop to technocracy game as well though...
https://youtu.be/u4rKio2irYU
>>45610835
>>45610808
>and I say it as a person who actually doesn't dislike Beast
I was going to argue with you that Beast isn't as bad as everyone says, but... yeah.
Even if Beast isn't as bad as everyone says, it's the worst. It doesn't have many themes of it's own (and the one theme it does have is hamstrung, i.e. family) and it has as much direction as being spun in a circle three times and shoved out of the back of a moving truck into an empty field.
>>45610858
>>45610835
Long story short id say lack of a overarching goal to shoot for. Like vampire and werewolf and mage were all built on and around actual legends, playing into and subverting the tropes as need be. I cant really think of any stories about monsters doing bad things fo people to teach them a lesson and being in the roght. Like dragons and harpies and giants and sea monster stories certianly arent about that.
>>45610858
FUCK YOU GIEST IS AMAZING GET YOUR PLEB SHIT THE FUCK AWAY FROM ME
>>45610907
Man, they even did well with changing breeds for the furry crowd. I mean, the system was robust and well done, if slightly overpowered (especially with magic) and you could whip up your own breeds with ease.
But otherkin? Not any more.
>>45610876
>>45610858
https://youtu.be/tSDKCefOPtQ
>>45606873
Your right they did make them stronger. But honestly 2E allows a splat to be the best in their field if you work towards that end. While allowing you to still be pretty great at other things.
For example vampire will be the best at social. But a vampire Gangrel geared towards combat can handle most werewolves except for the most optimized Rahu warrior.
While the reverse is also true a werewolf will be the best in combat with little effort allow him to be a smooth talker. Putting any effort into combat a werewolf can only be matched by things like a demon going load.
My point being the system now allows you to play any concept you want. Without being down right broken and not in a good way.
>>45610808
How could you know about Mage 2? Do you have it already? ARE YOU FROM THE FUTURE!?!?
>>45610858
Beast has the problems of Geist, amplified.
Although Beast at least has their... what, Covens? Work better than Krewes. Krewes are dumb, but when Beasts hang out they get to create Castlevania.
>>45611072
we all know enough about Mage 2e to know it's great.
>>45611150
Beast have Broods.
>>45610921
Geist is good ideas compounded with VERY poor execution anon, I love it too but we have to admit. It was a fucking mechanical nightmare, probably the best example in 1E of "great ideas done poorly."
>>45611314
I thought the mechanics were fine, actually quiet excwllent even, but the real problem was a complete and utter lack of any direction
>you died and have ghost powers now!
>Great. Now what.
>well…
>>45611392
I guess they wanted us to pick a direction. But that like telling a headless chicken to cross the road. It won't end well.
>>45611392
>>45611392
I wish they went further into the underworld spelunking. It was the more interesting concept between it and ghost helping.
hi anon im on my way home from the and im pretty have to take a piss do i might spell stuff stupid but im just wondering why the antidelusionals even care about the rest of vampire society in vtm?
>>45605567
hey, anyone know where i could get Mortal Remains book/pdf? Don't have the money to buy it until next friday
>>45612203
uh, you could wait till next fucking friday?
what do you think, we fucking just pirate whatever we want here? give me a break, fuck.
>>45612203
>Mortal Remains book PDF
https://www.sendspace.com/file/y0t02x
I've seen three good takes on expanded Purified. I like them. I even ran one in a game where everyone else was mages, since I was always pretty shit with Mages. It was great, except for the whole "YOU DISPLEASED US. SHAMAN PUT HIM IN THE BOX" thing.
Still doesn't stand up to the Eastern Mummies of oWoD, which is depressing.
>>45612235
>what do you think, we fucking just pirate whatever we want here?
Yes, most of us do
>>45612274
Jesus would be ashamed of you, anon.
Think of the.. fetuses? Fuck, I don't know. I didn't think this through. Something about theft and clothing women in scarlet.
>>45612235
With the increasing disappearance of FLGS's, pirating is really the only way to actually browse a book before deciding to buy it.
Many of us procure the PDF illegally, and if impressed, still buy a hard copy or PDF to support the company and ensure there'll be more books.
However, Mortal Remains was lousy, and definitely didn't warrant an actual purchase. I expect much better with Dark Eras and Mage 2e if they're ever released.
>>45612334
Jesus was a communist. He'd be a big fan of filesharing.
can i run a changing breeds char in a Chronicles of darkness campaign?
>>45612515
Sure you can.
You shouldn't, but you can.
>>45612518
i meant like, rules-wise, is it possible? cause i know werewolves got big buffs apparently
>>45612527
CofD is based on the GMC rules update so 1e books will work with it, but you'll need to jury-rig a few things.
If you want to go toe-to-toe with 2e Wolves though your best bet is just using 2e Wolf and fluff your transformations as a different animal.
>>45612483
Then he was a godless red and noone needs to think about him.
>>45612542
Or use the original and take beast magic, because hey, paradox free mage powers.
>>45612542
In many ways I'd like a crack at Changing Breeds 2e because I would make them radically different to their 1e incarnation. I'd also do my best to ensure they weren't just 'werewolves but different shapes and stat bonuses'.
For what it's worth re Dark Eras, I've seen the first proof so I know it's close and real - I've seen the Sundered World laid out on the page, complete with art.
If the amends on the first proofs are made and then there are no more changes needed, then after the second proofs come back and are checked I'm gonna guess we're pretty damn near to initial backer release for error-checking etc, and people will finally be able to see it all. 'Course, if there *are* more issues that need to be fixed in the second proofs then it's had to say how long it will take while things get batted back and forth.
What exactly was the deal with moving equipment over from 1E to 2E? I remember you reduced the damage by one, but how did you calculate initiative penalty and such?
>>45612335
>However, Mortal Remains was lousy, and definitely didn't warrant an actual purchase. I expect much better with Dark Eras and Mage 2e if they're ever released.
Good job being wrong. I actually bought the PDF.
>>45614236
What would you do? Aren't we getting Skinchangers Aztecs?
Since some OP people are here, can you mention anything about Scion 2e?
I promised my boy I'd keep tabs on it, and I haven't heard shit about it in months,.
>>45612483
He'd be an anarcho-communist at the most if you interpreted the things he said as communism, and everyone knows anarcho-communism doesn't work outside of hippy communes.
>>45614491
>What would you do? Aren't we getting Skinchangers Aztecs?
1e Skinchangers.
>>45606066
>http://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/32097/top-5-roleplaying-games-spring-2015
The problem is that asking retailers is going to seriously shaft those who use mainly digital distribution.
>>45614611
The ICV2 rankings are worse than useless. They're not even "what sells through the antiquated distributor model", they're "what sells through *one* distributor".
>>45606556
Hell no. Somewhere in the near- or middle east. Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Egypt. Somewhere around there.
There will probably be some old-as-fuck ones in the Indus valley as well.
But London? Nah. By the time the Romans founded Londinium, cities in the Levant had stood for some 6 000 years. Everything in northern Europe is new, historically speaking. It only looks old to people with no historical perspective. Like Americans.
>>45610875
My big problem with Beast is the lack of options.
Too few powers. ALL Beasts will rapidly start looking like all other Beasts.
>>45606556
The oldest domain is likely to be somewhere in Italy, considering the current domain structure of vampire society emerged after the fall of the Camarilla
As for any other supernat society? Who the fuck knows
>>45614682
Oh.
Didn't know that.
Thanks for enlightening me.
>>45614682
Oh. I've been using them as an example of how well things have done. I assumed they were involved with the publishers. I mean, I doubt they personally are making 880 million.
>ICv2 has released the results of its study on the size of the hobby game market in 2014, including the finding that that the market in the U.S. and Canada totaled around $880 million at retail, as reported in the recently released Internal Correspondence #88.
What would be a better place to get information? And why is the hobby games market so damned mum on the subject anyway? Other than ICV2, I can only find info on Magic: The Gathering, and that's because Reddit will sometimes get their in-house press releases where they say how much better they're doing.
>>45614772
Does it lack options? I thought it had quite a few. I haven't been able to sit down with Beast as well as I'd like. I know it's not as bad as everyone says, but that's about it.
>>45614779
>>45614736
While I agree that London is only new by Western standards, you also have to keep in mind that places rise and fall. The Camarilla was great, but then it crumbled. Toronto's Freehold is an example of why something may not last. It was originally in Persia, but the Scheherezad had a vision and left with the two Courts, just before the Iranian Revolution. Just because the city is old doesn't mean the Domain is.
>>45614847
>While I agree that London is only new by Western standards, you also have to keep in mind that places rise and fall. The Camarilla was great, but then it crumbled. Toronto's Freehold is an example of why something may not last. It was originally in Persia, but the Scheherezad had a vision and left with the two Courts, just before the Iranian Revolution. Just because the city is old doesn't mean the Domain is.
Yeah. But let's see, Antioch, Rome, Athens, Corinth, Istanbul/Constantinople/Byzantium. All have remained as cities throughout the millennia. All older than London. I'll also remind you that London got basically reset in 1666.
>>45614298
>>45614682
Cris & Dave, what do you guys think of the follower merit from exalted? Do you guys think it could be used for CofD?
Here the one I could find for quick reference.
Your character needs Resources, Backing, or Influence equal to her dots in Followers in order to support them all.
1 Provides up to 5 followers.
2 Provides 20 followers.
3 Provides a loyal band of 100 followers.
4 Provides a small army of 1,000 followers.
5 Provides a mighty force of 10,000 followers.
>>45614896
I wasn't saying London would be the oldest, just that it wouldn't necessarily be Levantine or even Italian. You also provide good examples of cities that are still standing, but really only the same city in terms of geography. I mean, Istanbul has had so many changeovers across its many years that They Might Be Giants wrote a song about it.
Sure, Rome may be a very old city, but the Camarilla also fell and that Domain was broken into pieces. It's very likely that any Domains in Constantinople have also risen and fallen.
>>45614996
Why not use Staff or Hobbyist Clique? CofD doesn't really support 10,000 followers. Also, Backing and Influence are oWoD Merits. The person who proposed that was doing so for oWoD (unless that was you) and it's from Scion.
>>45614503
Most we've heard is that it and tribity will be based on the same system because they both need to do a power gradient thing.(thats hero -> demigod-> god in scion and stalwart-> psion -> nova in trinity). Besides that i think theyre still just making the base system, dont know if any work on the actual games has started
>>45614554
I think he'd be a fan of hippie communes. He did have that beard.
>>45615010
It's was not me.
But staff could work.
Have some spooky ass WoD inspiration.
http://thoughtcatalog.com/michael-koh/2013/07/40-freaking-creepy-ass-two-sentence-stories/
I did not think two sentence stories would creep me the hell out, but then I remembered that I'm a fucking pussy.
>>45615097
Also the actual Reddit thread where the question was asked.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1iwylh/what_is_the_best_horror_story_you_can_come_up/
What's the worst thing in WoD?
>>45615353
The fans.
What would be some good inspiration for Geist?
I'm not actually running a game but I'm going to use them as a powerful group in New Orleans and I'm not sure what to do with them.
Am I the only one that feels brawl and weaponry should be rolled into one skill? It feels like no matter what, you NEED to have brawl if you ever intend on fighting, lest you be a huge target for grappling and subsequent joint-locking.
>>45615475
Wouldn't be more ridiculous than Crafts or Athletics.
>>45615475
Yeah, I really dislike the split, too. I don't think rolling it into one would throw the balance off.
>>45615455
Read the Mortal Remains section. Also, think of them as a mix of gangster and religious cult.
>>45615475
>>45615590
Why? Brawling is a very different skill than weaponry combat, and, yeah, if you're all about fighting with weapons then of course you're going to have trouble when you get in a grapple. That's not really a bug or anything. Weaponry's downside is that you need an actual weapon. Brawl's downside is that you're good to go whenever, wherever, but you're weaker. Although I don't know what kind of situations you're getting into where you really need to worry about getting grappled in the first place. Hell, one of the main things I like about 2e is that Grappling is now useful without needing to take Aikido.
Also, in terms of "needing a certain skill", you already need Athletics in addition to Weaponry. Hell, in my games I've decided that Defense is the lesser of Athletics or Brawl, so you need three skills if you want to be effective in melee combat. I don't really see it as a problem because like I said, if you need a weapon, you'll be off balanced if you don't have that weapon.
>>45615732
>Brawl's downside is that you're good to go whenever, wherever, but you're weaker
Except you aren't.
With CofD, you are basically always armed with the equivalent of a broadsword when you've sunk five xp into martial arts.
Which is both ridiculous and broken.
>>45615732
That's the thing, any time you're in melee with any kind of weapon you're subject to brawl, and are quite likely to be grabbed, especially as they'll want to control your weapon hand.
>>45615732
>Why? Brawling is a very different skill than weaponry combat,
Yeah but that applies to all sorts of stuff. I mean, Firearms covers everything ever that's a gun regardless of style or size and Weaponry covers everything from a knife in the dark to a nine-section staff to a chainsaw.
>>45615774
And that's 5 Experiences you didn't put into something else, Anon.
>>45615848
Not really. If you're in a sword fight, they're not likely to want to grapple you. And even then... so? Again, that's not a bug. It's not a flaw of the system that someone who's bad at hand to hand is at a disadvantage in a grapple. I much prefer systems where unarmed and armed combat are separate over skills with one FIGHT skill. Even our hypothetical master Martial Artist is at a disadvantage when he's grappled and can't strike at his captor because he's got arms around his throat and needs to Brawl to escape before he succumbs to a Choke Hold.
>>45615904
And Brawl covers everything from punches and kicks to biting and grabbing. But fighting armed and fighting unarmed, or ranged and melee, is very different.
>>45615932
What are you talking about, yes they will. Grapple is the most ideal response to "shit, he's got a knife." and is the most frequent response, because punching their throat uses the same dicepool as grabbing their arm and stopping them from stabbing you, there is no reason to NOT grapple against someone with a sword.
>>45615732
True but geist religion is weird.
Like they just lift little bits and pieces of mortal faiths and put them together in a giant collage that works because "spooky ghost" stuff.
>>45615732
Basically >>45615904 that.
Crafts covers all Crafts. Athletics all means of moving. Expression is singing, public speech, dancing and all musical instruments. Splitting melee combat in two skills does nothing but making melee combat a focus of the game, which I feel is wrong in a urban horror setting.
Besides, it adds all sorts of weird fringe cases like Brawl weapons.
>>45615976
Exactly. I'm half considering doing something like rolling it into one skill and rying it as a one shot, maybe do something like "If you want to use a weapon, you need a specialty or you halve your close-quarters pool", just so I can see how badly it'd fuck everything.
>>45616008
Then you'll need another Physical skill, at least if you're pedantic.
I still support the idea tho.
>>45616099
Yea, probably. I can't imagine what it'd be.
>>45616135
Sexual Performance.
>>45614503
>>45615018
The Storypath system is finally done and ready, and Ian (Trinity overDeveloper) and Neall (Scion Developer) have made the modified versions of it for the two games. Now the production of the two games proper can begin.
In Trinity's case, an awful lot of the non-system material is already written, so the team there are now writing up the rules. In Scion's case, Neall's writing the outline.
The system bears some similarities to Storytelling (nWoD/CofD's system) but varies wildly in others: it's dice pools of d10s according to how many dots you have on the sheet, but what the target number is and what counts as multiple successes depends on your character's tier (hero, demigod, god, etc). You then use your successes to buy down a difficulty level set by the GM, and if you have any left over you can trigger special effects. Equipment and positive conditions gives bonus successes *after* you succeed, but before you buy down the difficulty. The system also has the notion of Complications (the door you're lockpicking is alarmed!) that you can buy off with extra successes separately or not, but won't stop you succeeding if you don't.
The core dice mechanics:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1muyXqM1SO07HCuPPyXcw0BLwv1Hbp9ltiXHDHpvPJQg/edit
The skills and attributes, which are not the same as in Storytelling:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tGOJRG7u3egaibnxbdye8TNiPiWQBgPvxIBDChtH2iQ/edit
Scale, combat, procedural investigations, and social intrigue:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mxa3JGoAq-FDw4MLlWO-1Ci8ezvvVXMhSOFl3cTwR6M/edit
>>45615963
Uh... what about the fact that you have a sword as well?
>>45615976
>>45616008
But the only place that you really need that kind of gradient is with combat. How well you can make specific things or sing is rarely going to be some determining factor in how well you succeed at the game's challenges. Combat on the other hand is important because even when it isn't part of the story, it has the largest margin of success or failure.
I mean... why? I really don't understand the logic here. "Someone in a grapple who's bad at [GRAPPLE SKILL] will be at a disadvantage"? Why is that a problem? It's like saying "Someone bad at [COMBAT SKILL] will be at a disadvantage in combat". I don't see it a flaw of the system that you can't ignore one of the two melee combat skills. You should have to focus on what you want, just like the guy who wants to be a slick con artist is going to need more than just Subterfuge.
Nevermind that if you really want to make it harder for people to grapple someone with a sword, there are better options, like giving anyone with a weapon bonus defense against anyone without a weapon.
>>45615774
Ya but some one with a weapon can us a chain saw spend 4 exp inorder to have a weapon modifier be 10. That will drop a mother fucker. Granted to that you need to sacrifice your defense and a -1 to the attacking die pool.
You can't just say one party spends exp on something and not expect the other party to do the same.
>>45616218
The fact that once you're in the grapple, 0 dots or ten in weaponry won't matter, which is what i find to be irksome.
>>45616246
Here the answer to your problem.
Tuska-Ate (•)
Tags: Grappling, Light Weapons
Prerequisites: Strength 00, Weaponry 00
Effect: When you enter into a grapple with a weapon, the best way to neutralize your opponent quickly is by ensuring that she can no longer use her arms. With this merit you gain a +2 bonus on an attack to apply an Arm Wrack tilt inside of a grapple when you attack with a weapon.
>>45616246
>>45616298
Its from the hurtlocker open dev.
man, the new combat sucks
>>45616218
because it feels to me like introducing separate Climbing, Running, Dodge and Swimming Skills instead of Athletics. Unnecessary detailed and taking away from the story.
explain to me why i should use 2e instead of just backporting new werewolf into 1e
>>45616372
because it's less work and 2E has almost universally improved upon the mechanics of 1e's concepts.
>>45616372
2e is an improvement on damn near everything across the board.
Even the lore is better, placing less catch 22s due to trying to suck WtA's cock and putting determinism in the players' hands.
On top of that, do you realize the amount of work it would take to do it?
>>45616372
Because the themes are implement better. Also every splat are about equal to each other in most regards. Excluding the field they specialize in, such social for vampire & huntinh for werewolf.
>>45616405
I feel like it has not almost universally improved on mechanics. While I appreciate flat xp rates, I dislike the new weapon rules, hate beats, and tilts are just silly names for conditional modifiers.
>>45616231
wut
>>45616246
So? Take some Brawl. It's not hard. It's not a problem.
You can have Persuasion 10 but it won't matter...
...when you need to deal with animals (Animal Ken)
...when you need to excite people (Expression)
...when you need to threaten people (Intimidate)
...when you need to ingratiate yourself to groups (Socialize)
...when you need to lie (Subterfuge)
...when you need to understand how the group functions and how to cut the bullshit (Politics)
You can have Investigate 10 but it won't matter...
...when you need to hit the books (Academics)
...when you need to know the unexplainable (Occult)
...when you need to understand organizations (Politics)
...when you need to read how people feel (Empathy)
...when you need to find the word on the street (Streetwise)
And so on.
>>45616321
Only if you suck.
>>45616346
But you don't need those things. It's not an unnecessary detail because combat matters more. It's one of the most important things to any story it's in because it can determine the course of the story. Climbing, running, swimming, and dodging are all aspects of the same thing. Most of it doesn't even really require any sort of training or knowledge.
>>45616372
For one that would be more work. For two, 2e is much more mechanically sturdy, and I say this as someone who's previously listed 1e as my favourite system of all time.
The very few places that I feel 2e made poor decisions are also fixed a lot easier. And really, while I have a fix for Defense, it's not a BIG dealbreaker for me, I just wish that it wasn't reliant on one skill, so I make it the lesser of two skills.
>>45616412
>improvement
>lore
Is this the same /tg/ that bashed it for making furrytowns basically the best way to run werewolf?
On the subject of back porting is there anyone here that's ever tried back porting MtAw rules to MtAs? It seems like a pretty easy match although the spheres and arcana don't quite match up right. Why did they make death a thing again when it's just a different flavor of matter and spirit?
>>45616436
To be fair, regular humans are pretty heavily shafted now. Before they were only at a slight disadvantage, but now it's not even close
>>45616445
With 1 dot into heavy weapon style to increase a weapon raiting by 1 at the cost of 3 die penalty. While hip drop lets you double your weapon raiting at the cost of defense.
With a chainsaw thats 4+1*2=10.
Sorry for the crapy explanation earlier.
>>45616467
Most of the people who don't like the new mechanics or lore stopped coming to these threads.
>>45616512
This. It's made running hunter games a chore.
>>45616438
What exactly do you dislike about beats? You could always go back to the old XP costs and replace beats with XP fairly easilly, 1 beat is functionally 1 xp for the sake of the old system.
>>45616496
>Why did they make death a thing again when it's just a different flavor of matter and spirit?
They split Entropy up into Death and Fate, because Entropy covered too damn much.
>On the subject of back porting is there anyone here that's ever tried back porting MtAw rules to MtAs?
Yes, there's people who play MtAs with MtAw rules. I dunno how well it works, though, considering the oMage traditions are literally how you're able to cast spells, whereas doing the same stuff in nMage just improves your ability to cast spells.
>>45616575
On the other hand, now a vampire isn't just a bulletproof human.
>>45616467
Furrytowns?
>>45616467
wut.
>>45616512
Not really. I mean, regular humans have very little ability to stand up to the supernaturals, but it's still far from oWoD where you were literally just a prop or afterthought. Supernaturals still get a ton of power, but they're generally limited in that power. I mean, a guy in an alleyway who jumps a vampire is still a problem. Not a problem because they can kill the vampire, but because they can cripple it. And a whole gang of them really could take out a vampire (which is kind of interesting, because most of the higher level Disciplines are all based around staying in one place, particularly Animalism and Obfuscate).
Now, for a Werewolf the guy in the alleyway won't be a problem, but that's because Werewolves are murderbeasts, and that's how it should be.
And everyone still has to deal with social problems, so striking at their periphery is always best.
>>45616575
Has it? How so? Also, you should really not be using the werewolf or vampire mechanics from Requiem or Forsaken in Hunter in the first place.
>>45616438
I love everything you hate. Also, of course Tilts (and Conditions) are just status effects. The great thing about them is that they're codified. Yeah, you have to look up in the back of the book or use a card to say "Stunned" or "Confused", but you also can say "you get Stunned" instead of five powers explaining in 100 words how they're stunning you and what that means mechanically.
>>45616651
There's absolutely no reason for werewolves to interact with people. They can form long lasting, independent communities all the way up to the municipal level with only occasionally introducing new blood. You can have a small town where literally everyone is a werewolf.
>>45616681
Powderkegs, also, numbers, unless a whole lot of packs decided to abandon their territory to go somewhere else and rub elbows with strangers.
>>45616681
There's several reasons for Werewolves to interact with people. You're just ignoring them all.
You could, however, have a small town where everyone is a Werewolf. Sounds like a great idea for a Pure commune.
But by that same logic you could have a town where everyone is a Changeling, or a Mage. Or vampires and their blood dolls.
>>45616638
I don't see this as a benefit.
>>45616671
>Has it? How so? Also, you should really not be using the werewolf or vampire mechanics from Requiem or Forsaken in Hunter in the first place.
Before I could use those rules. Hunters were always at a disadvantage, but it was manageable with planning and a little bit of luck. Now they're not even in the same ballpark most of the time unless I give Hunters a ton of powers themselves. As someone who loved Tier 1 and 2, this is frustrating as hell.
>>45616575
Not really. I'm running a hunter game and my players have been fine. For the most part, you just have to heavily encourage your players to seek out a smarter plan then "We could just shoot it a fucktonne", and they're pretty much fine.
>>45616671
>Not really. I mean, regular humans have very little ability to stand up to the supernaturals
But in 1e they did. You couldn't write off any human threat. They were all a threat of some sort, but now there is a definite threshold of how badass a human has to be to even be worth bothering the players with. For a hunter game, this means I have to give them tons and tons of xp.
>>45616554
I wonder if that changed how many regular posters there are in these threads. Probably not.
>>45616761
That's all well and good to say, but it's also extremely dependent on your DM style and their play style and the particulars of the campaign and encounter. It's very easy to devise basically unwinnable situations now that would have been merely challenging before.
>>45616595
The Mage Translation Guide did a decent job of it. Though there's less reason to have them now, I hope the translation guides get updated to CofD 2e.
>>45616709
One of the driving themes of werewolf has always been that they can't just do the easy thing and leave people behind. Now they can, and the only reason you might not is out of tradition.
>>45616785
It's ALWAYS possible to devise basically unwinnable situations, it's the hallmark of a good GM to NOT make a situation completely untenable
>>45616671
>Yeah, you have to look up in the back of the book or use a card to say "Stunned" or "Confused", but you also can say "you get Stunned" instead of five powers explaining in 100 words how they're stunning you and what that means mechanically.
"The target has -X dice to these checks and cannot take X action."
>>45616761
Honestly Don't you feel thats for the better? Now they are hunters in stead of mooks from the movies.
>>45616726
>I don't see this as a benefit.
I do. Now vampires are actual monsters. They are scary.
In 1e, all they had to their name was the blood slavery and a decent mind control. When a vampire was finally confronted, he was toast.
>>45616811
Read the entire point. There are more unwinnable situations now and they're less obvious.
>>45616828
>When a vampire was finally confronted, he was toast.
Which is what the entire lore of 1e was about, and why Vampires decided to stay hidden, only attack people with the element of surprise, and never entertain a group confrontation. It molded the way they viewed humans: fear.
>>45616726
>I don't see this as a benefit.
Some people want their supernatural threats to be supernaturally threatening.
What is your problem with Hunter? What exactly are you doing?And are you actually running a game or just assumingWhy are you not using the Hunter specific rules?
Hunters are always supposed to be outmatched. That's why they think of alternate solutions instead of going at problems head on, and that's why they've got Tactics to even the odds.
>>45616761
To be fair if you have enough guns, "shoot it a fuckton" is a pretty viable solution to a lot of problems.
>>45616764
>>45616785
No they didn't. The situation I mentioned with a human jumping someone in an alleyway still would have gone bad for the human. The only recourse was dumping a shitton of dice at a problem. Human were still almost always going to fail against any sort of mental manipulation or magical power, and supernaturals always had the ability to get more dice. Supers have more options, and having more options means more likelihood of success.
Your problem with Hunter is vague. You're not telling us WHAT the problem is. Tell us what the problem is and we can help give you advice. Hell, it sounds like you're the ST, but you're saying it's all dependant on your ST. Well then you have the power to fix it.
>>45616836
GIVE.
US.
EXAMPLES.
Other people aren't having problems here, but clearly you are. Tell us your problem and we'll tell you how everyone else is solving it.
>>45616850
No it wasn't. In 1e there are like 20 Bloodlines who outright believe themselves to be deities, and even your generic man-on-the-street vampire thinks he's the hottest of shit. Vampire society isn't worried about individual humans, they're worried about humanity.
>>45616801
That was never really one of the driving themes, except in oWoD, where it WAS viable and a common in-setting thing to have "furrytowns".
>>45616825
Yes, actually. I WANT my monsters to be scary, and if I make them unkillable(to humans at least) I sure as hell expect that instead of rushing in alone they'll seek external aid or a more creative solution. At one point they were confronted with a rank 3 angel which, in front of them killed a small pack of pure. They proceeded to figure out its bane, lure it to a public area and blast it with high caliber rifles with bullets inscribed with the bane. It'll be back eventually, but for the moment they managed to take out a pretty serious threat by biding their time and not being dumb.
>>45616681
Werewolves who don't interact with people run into various fairly severe issues, not the least of which is that any attempt at a self-sustaining community, even if *everything else* was somehow solved or ignored without problem, will *create* humans in the form of the werewolves' children.
>>45616862
>Tell us your problem and we'll tell you how everyone else is solving it.
I know how this goes. I'll posit a situation that I found frustrating and your response will be either "working as intended" or suggesting that I change the way I've been running the game since 1e came out. Speak to me honestly, would there be any real situation I could come up with that would make you change your position?
>>45616882
>Yes, actually. I WANT my monsters to be scary, and if I make them unkillable(to humans at least) I sure as hell expect that instead of rushing in alone they'll seek external aid or a more creative solution.
The issue there is that by making combat 'The wrong choice' you really shaft combat characters in that they only get to fight when they'll basically automatically lose OR they have a ban so they'll almost certainly win. It doesn't give much middle ground.
That and 'Vampires shoot each other all the time, humans shouldn't really be worse at doing it back to them'
>>45616902
I honestly have no idea how you'd have a problem now that you didn't have in 1e.
I can't think of any "unwinnable scenarios". I can't think of any reason you as the ST can't tailor the game to the players.
Although if your problem is "my characters can't fistfight a vampire" then, yeah, that's the game working as intended. Frankly I'd be surprised if you could accomplish that in 1e.
>>45616946
>Frankly I'd be surprised if you could accomplish that in 1e.
It's not fists, but Gunslinger alone could let a mortal solo a vampire until medium xp levels. Actually, Gunslinger let them solo a lot of things.
>>45616938
It's not necessarily "The wrong choice", but it's "The wrong choice this time". Every choice has its time to be made, at certain points you will need to learn and at other points you need to kill kill kill, and obviously you don't do this all the time.
>>45616977
With supernaturals being so strong, the choice is almost never.
>>45616977
And how often is the Social character going to get told 'This social situation is auto-lose' or the investigator be told 'This mystery can't be solved by you'
If one person's specialty gets shat on, everyone should get a chance for it.
>>45616882
So, you don't want any of the myriad of combat options that people might take to ever be a thing - in fact you want to punish them for having the gall to DARE play a character who tries to fight monsters with everything he's got?
Because only your SPECHUL SNOWFLAKE characters should be able to fight their battles for them, unless they can find the SPECHUL PLOT MACGUFFIN?
Boy are you ever fun to play with.
>>45617000
This has all my support.
>>45609966
Why not have an Onyx Path general since the devs come by now and then, then have a separate Whitewolf general?
I mean really it's better to keep the games separate anyway just so you always know what people are talking about. It's offputting for new players who have no idea what's what. This would help new players click a thread and be able to get into it.
All in favour of splitting the general say aye
>>45617000
>That's not possible
>But ... it's a language puzzle
>And only "Crowbar McBludgeons" here can possibly hope to understand it
>With his ZERO, HOW IS IT EVEN ZERO DOTS IN ALL HIS MENTAL STATS?
>What the fuck would you know, you're just an occult detective, and you guys didn't find the translation.
>>45617000
Never, because part of the point is to let them learn "this thing is strong" or "This guy is clever", if you look at it in perspective of "win and lose" you miss the point.
>>45617015
Don't most hunters fight monsters with all they've got? At the end of the day a huge theme of hunter is fighting a war against creatures more powerful than you, and of course it seems to be implicit that sometimes, bullets, fists and cars aren't enough.
>>45616966
Gunslinger was OP as shit. It double your attack output with little cost. Also what if the person your facing is using gunslinger the fuck does he do then?
>>45616938
Vampires don't shoot each other all the time. In fact they have a specific fighting style (That existed in 1e if I recall) for cutting away vitae. Their fighting style based Bloodline even preferred melee weapons (though in 1e it was available in Firearms).
>>45616966
...
Your problem is basically that 2e doesn't have the broken ass firearms merits that 1e had? You're right, you can't treat 2e like Exalted whenever you have a gun.
>>45616998
Several people are telling you that's wrong.
>>45617000
>>45617019
>>45617015
>>45617041
Except that's not happening. What's happening is "you can't fistfight Godzilla, unless you've prepared in advance in Godzilla fighting techniques".
Christ, Hunter's core themes are based around the fact that you can't solo your fucking opponents and need to think creatively. They even have a special mechanic designed around the concept of working together as a group to take down a more powerful opponent, and your argument is that the game is broken or wrong because you have to actually use those rules instead of use more dakka?
>>45617052
Things just got crazy
>>45617048
>Never, because part of the point is to let them learn "this thing is strong" or "This guy is clever", if you look at it in perspective of "win and lose" you miss the point.
So the Combat character gets to be told 'Your skills are useless' but other characters don't?
Shouldn't a social vampire be able to utterly dominate (Either lower or upper D) the shit out of a social character? Or an Angel remove all traces that could be used to track it? After all, they are hugely powerful.
I find it funny that people go 'We can't put brawl and melee in the same skill as combat is so very important' and then we end up in the talk of 'Combat is pointless quite often'
>>45617058
First of all, don't use an ellipse if you don't have to.
Secondly, Tactics were not very good and actual player tactics were stronger, such as traps, pinning an opponent, and choosing the right weapons in the right combinations. The only tactic really worth a damn was the one that gave everyone a sky high bonus against mental effects
>>45616894
Hey Cris hows the rites coming along? Just wondering if your still stuck.
>>45617085
It's kinda funny how hard you resort to hyperbole, but I'll keep going.
No character's skills are ever "useless", you're still missing the point, the point is that you don't go up against a war-formed werewolf in a punching match because guess what, it's what they do best. The ENTIRE point of hunter is that hunters are wily beyond all measure and tend to be quite lucky, they learn fast that you can't try to socially oust a vampire with a deep circle of loyal friends with just their word, you have to investigate, learn about the monster and probably do things that make you a little more like that monster before you kill it.
It never ceases to amaze me how flatly themes fall on some people.
>>45617048
There's a difference between "these aren't enough" and "lolno it doesn't work you lose".
Bullets, fists and cars, for example, are a terrible choice against a rampaging demon that's gone loud. But they CAN work.
It's one thing to need some way to seal it to prevent it from coming back, but for some reason a common thing some STs do is make the thing combat immune.
Yet, it's never "research the special bans" immune. It's never "any and all social actions" immune (and before you say 'what if it's a brick wall', remember that THAT depends what splat you're playing, because sometimes that's not much of a barrier to such communication!), and nothing is ever, EVER "external-aid immune", sometimes even when we're talking some journey through one's inner consciousness.
Yet "combat immune" pops up with regularity.
>>45616938
>The issue there is that by making combat 'The wrong choice' you really shaft combat characters in that they only get to fight when they'll basically automatically lose OR they have a ban so they'll almost certainly win. It doesn't give much middle ground.
>That and 'Vampires shoot each other all the time, humans shouldn't really be worse at doing it back to them'
Except that the combat characters have plenty to do with Dominated guards, Majesty'ed fanatical devotees, blood-bound slaves and ghouls.
>>45617140
>Yet "combat immune" pops up with regularity.
I blame people still trying to be counter-culture to D&D's philosophy that you can basically fight and win against everything if you are strong enough.
>>45617140
You missed my earlier post where I said "It's the hallmark of a bad GM to make impossible to solve and untenable situations". I never said these things don't work, there's no such thing as a demon that ignores attacks with no ifs, ands or buts, but you can expect that if you go into a fight with no preparation beyond "YEA BADASSES" you will suffer for it, that is the nature of hasty action. Are you presuming that when my players say "I want to go fight that thing" I tell them "No that's impossible! Did you think you weren't on the rails?" and send them back towards whatever pre-destinated chain of events I had imagined?
>>45617085
Combat is important. Combat is important precisely because it can end in the end of a game, or a character in traction. Which is why you need to be certain that you can finish that combat, instead of losing. Combat is done in turns instead of scenes because that kind of gradation is necessary.
A social character can have their skills rended "useless" in all the situations you mentioned. No one says they can't. In fact, it's the same situation. "Don't pick a fight until you can win it".
The book even suggests having character's social ties be attacked.
>>45617091
I don't like the Tactics system, but that's flat out not true. There are plenty of Tactics that are outright "fill the monster full of lead".
>>45617140
Cars are never a bad decision. You just have to make sure to get out of the car first.
How is "Combat immune" popping up, though? Again, fleshy mortal characters should not be able to single handedly take on the dragon.
So can anyone here run a Changeling 2E playtest? I really want to get into a game but I'm a shit GM.
>>45617025
Aye, sure. Will confuse people who search for WoDg, if nothing else. And I'm all for that.
>>45617015
So. How many classic vampire stories were solved without crosses, holy water, and sunlight?
>>45617123
Dude, "holy shit why would you face off with that thing like that" is different from "unkillable", which is what I think at least 2-3 of us are taking issue with.
You CAN go up against a war-form werewolf in a punching match. You'd be a damn fool to do so, and you're probably going to get yourself killed... BUT... you have a sliver of a chance. At that point, the whole thing of outsmarting, out-tricking and out-lucking the opponent, that works. You're doing that, yes, but doing so is building odds back in your favor with the path you've chosen.
Compare this to "unkillable except by external aid or special ban", where entire builds are invalidated, and nothing of what you do actually allows the character to shine; only some macguffin or another NPC.
It's a problem because it's made an entire category of character incapable of providing anything to the situation, by sheer fiat of "I do not like thing". It hasn't made a difficulty or challenge for that type of character, it's literally written that character out of the current plot.
>>45617207
>Again, fleshy mortal characters should not be able to single handedly take on the dragon.
I dunno, Beasts are only actually dragons in their lair. Outside that very specific situation, running them over with a car is a very valid option.
>>45617245
>Compare this to "unkillable except by external aid or special ban"
But.. Vampires can't be unkillable.
>>45617231
Camilla is solved by just digging up her body and chopping her head off. She's also forced to flee several times by 'Guy with sword/axe'
>>45617219
I'm planning one. Making the Freehold now. I should have done it four days ago, but I've had this pain in my back. I've got a Freehold that's split in two, and they're trying to join together, but shit's gone down and they might start doubling down in the war if they don't work to solve the problem.
>>45617245
But that's not at all true. Combat characters are still incredibly useful. It's not like Spirits didn't have Bans in 1e. And once you know what that ban is, someone's got to implement it, and that person is going to be the combat character.
You're basically treating this like the Street Samurai in Shadowrun. "B-but if you go in guns blazing everyone dies, and if you sneak in like Operators nothing goes south!"
>>45617249
Dragon was a metaphor. If you're playing some system that isn't D&D, though, a single person isn't going to stand up against a 20 foot tall armour scaled fire breathing maneater.
>>45617300
>If you're playing some system that isn't D&D, though, a single person isn't going to stand up against a 20 foot tall armour scaled fire breathing maneater.
You are clearly not familiar with White Wolf's other major game line.
>>45617245
No one ever mentioned "unkillable" except for yourself, and it feels like you're projecting based on some bad experience with a GM or a perceived notion that unkilleable enemies are common. In this game there has been one, and even then I planned for the possibility that they might want to kill him themselves, it would've been hard as shit but possible with the right planning.
>>45617025
Because the amount of posts about OPP stuff is like, a drop compared to the WoD posts. Most of the games aren't even out yet. Due to the recent purchase, it'd pretty much turn into a WoD General and and CofD General pretty much by...
Oh. I get it. Pretty sneaky, sis.
>>45617300
>You're basically treating this like the Street Samurai in Shadowrun. "B-but if you go in guns blazing everyone dies, and if you sneak in like Operators nothing goes south!"
In Shadowrun though, a clever application of force is almost always going to fell something. Even the biggest, nastiest cyberzombie can be felled with a good sniper rifle and a good position.
>>45617249
Some beast can stop a car dead in its tracks. Make the car take the damage instead of them and send the people in the car flying out as they keep the momentum.
Get Dunked On!
>>45617231
The ones where the answer was a stake
In Bram Stoker's Drac dies from getting stabbed through the heart. Knife, too, not even a stake
Actually, Staking them is one of the most common things, with type-of-wood being one of the more common restrictions.
'Course there's also the slavs which decapitate the thing and then either toss the head away or bury the fucker with his head up his arse, forever destroying him
You could keep one perma-fucked by spiking it into wherever it's sleeping; even if you don't dust it they generally could not escape if you nailed'em into their own coffin (one way or the other!)
Complete Incineration has been a very common method as well; while it was not a specific destructive ritual, it was a certain kill (the non-religious "let's just burn this fucker" method, really).
FIREARMS have also been the popular method for quite some time! here's one example:
>In the Balkans, a vampire could also be killed by being shot or drowned, by repeating the funeral service, by sprinkling holy water on the body, or by exorcism.
That's right. "shoot vampire" is in fact a classic way of destroying vampire!
>>45617309
Yes, in Exalted you can do that, sure. But Exalted is similar to D&D in that fighting things that are way bigger than you is part of the fun. WoD on the other hand skews more to "you're going to go splat like a bug on a car window"
>>45617319
I can't tell if he's the ST or if he's just making assumptions. Honestly other than "there are no more broken firearms styles" I don't see what the problem is. Almost everything he's mentioned was the same in 1e.
>>45617322
It's almost as if the same is true in WoD.
But you don't seem to see it as a problem that the Street Sammy can't fight that cyberzombie one on one. He's got to get the upper hand. He's got to know what he's doing. He's got to have the upper hand. Just like a Hunter.
>>45617347
Staking would be a Bane. Also, keep in mind that most of the time to stake a vampire you'd need to get at it when it's in Daysleep. Also, they cut Dracula's fucking head off while he was staked.
Nevermind that all of that still pretty much works in CofD. Even "just shoot it"; they just happen to be hard to kill with bullets. Even in the Balkans you couldn't just one and done a vamp. Generally when shooting it was the answer, you'd need a silver bullet, or at least need to shoot something that's supernaturally fast and strong.
>>45617319
>Yes, actually. I WANT my monsters to be scary, and if I make them unkillable(to humans at least)
Stop lying.
>>45617322
This. Some bans don't require or involve combat at all. In fact most don't. Bans are required actions/reactions, effectively Taboos for whatever it is that has them.
It's not some combat character that's implementing "this thing can't cross running water", or "it cannot consume sunlight if hovering over a child" or whatever. The 'research' guy figures out the ban and implements it.
>>45617412
Not me, retard.
>>45617412
The research guy can't stab the monster with the bone of a saint.
>>45617408
He's got to have a good sniper rifle or an assault cannon. But "make sure gun big enough" not the same as "only this unique ritual carried out in the moonlight could ever defeat this cyberzombie!"
Or you can ram a tank into it.
Speeding cars really ARE the solution to many monster problems.
Hey, ya'll, White Wolf is hiring: http://career.paradoxplaza.com/jobs/8270-editor
Apparently they're looking for an editor to help create the metaplot.
>>45617470
Why, does *he* have a ban preventing him from ever stabbing anything?
It's not like "the combat guy" has a chance against that monster anyways. How's he supposed to stab it in a fight? Oh look there goes the arm across the room, I guess my next action will be to scramble for it and hope my left hand can grab the nail and stab the thing instead. What do you mean it goes before me again?
>>45617476
You're still conflating "VERY HARD" with "IMPOSSIBLE". A human with the equivilent of a naval battery could probably kill any number of high ranking beasties.
>>45617507
I'm NOT.
Just because YOU claim "not me, retard" about someone having stated they want their beasties to be unkillable, doesn't mean no one did.
I have no problem with 'very hard'.
I have a problem with 'I won't apply the rules they play by to this, and make it IMPOSSIBLE'.
>>45617476
>>45617503
You're literally complaining that sometimes enemies are hard to fight and you have to think about what you're going to do instead of running in without a plan.
Why can't the bookworm stab the monster instead of the guy who's done nothing but fistfight bears all his life? Because the bookworm can barely open the plastic on his scissors.
How's Big McLargehuge supposed to stab the monster? All those dots in Weaponry and Brawl and specialties in "Fighting Monsters".
>>45617541
The post you're talking about was saying that he made things "unkillable" in that you can't just punch it to death without doing additional things like using it's Bane or thinking tactically. You're complaining that sometimes monsters are very very strong and require special things to defeat them, because they're magical powerful entities and simply shooting them isn't effective.
>>45617541
It didn't seem to be implied that "unkillable to humans" implies actually immortal, just "If you fight this as a human, you will probably die". Absolutely no where did it get said, and in fact it was said that NO, unkillable to humans=VERY STRONG.
>>45617541
>Just because YOU claim "not me, retard" about someone having stated they want their beasties to be unkillable, doesn't mean no one did.
All right.
Let's split this into three camps then.
"I want the monsters to be very hard to kill*"
"I want the monsters to be impossible to kill*"
"I want the monsters to be fairly easy to kill by a trained specialist."
*Excepting banes, or similar things.
I'm in the "I want the monsters to be very hard to kill"-camp.
>>45617590
The weird thing is that there have been plenty of monsters that were impossible to kill without Banes in 1e, and a lot of the Banes are impossible for a normal mortal to get ahold of.
>>45617613
Can't be. 1e was perfect in all ways.
>>45617625
It's true, I opened my 1e CofD core and it says it right here on the first page: "This game is perfect in every way. Do not forsake this edition, even if we make a new one." Can't argue with black and white, I guess we all have to pack it in.
>>45617496
Do you need to have worked with writing for slot machines before?
>>45617657
It's so they can know you know how to make something infuriating.
>>45617657
>Requirements
>The right candidate will have strong grasp of the English language, able to provide quality feedback on written material.
>Capacity to quickly formulate chaotic notes and ideas into clear comments and documents.
>Deep and profound passion and knowledge of the classic World of Darkness
>Game-design / system design experience
>The ability to clearly and fearlessly critique the work of others while deliver it in such a way that a constructive dialogue can take place
>Must be willing to travel internationally
>Scope: Full time and permanent
>Reports to: CEO of White Wolf Publishing
>Location: This position is based in Stockholm
Slot machine design probably counts as game design.
Extremely long shot, but... Any cunts here from Slovenia?
>>45617300
You able to run on Roll20 or Skype or something? Sounds like a cool premise.
>>45617800
Nah, I'm running onF-listand already have like 12 potential players.
>>45617832
Well, here's hoping you can keep a percentage of them at game time. Or all of them.
>>45616298
>the best way to neutralize your opponent quickly is by ensuring that she can no longer use her arms
I'm surprised there isn't a thing for tearing someones arms off
>>45617850
I'm probably going to run the game two or three times. I'm using an old 1e SAS. But, yeah, I have had problems keeping players.
My Werewolf game that I was really excited (but nervous) to run was tanked when I only had three players and then someone harassed one of them in the /soc/ threads until she quit the site out of stress.
>>45617855
Do enough aggravated damage to a limb Will chap it off. I think the damage needed is the amount need to give the tilt.
>>45617893
>>45617912
Just doubled checked his a bit from leg wreck.
Ending the Tilt: If the Tilt is inflicted as a result of an attack, mark an X under the leftmost Health box affected by that attack. The Tilt ends when that damage that caused it has healed. If the damage that inflicts this Tilt is aggravated, the character loses use of his leg permanently.
>>45617788
No but close.
How would you make a Changeling whose Durance was basically being a video game character? Think that old show Reboot, about the characters who lived inside of a computer and had GAME BLOCKS drop in on them and they had to play the NPCs in a video game.
I'm thinking Soldier is the most applicable Kith, but I probably want to Dual Kith and I'm not sure which Seeming fits. I could really see any of them working:
Beast - Break out by saying fuck this shit and going full Rambo regardless of game
Ogre - Hardening yourself until the time is right and busting out
Fairest - Starting a revolution with the other sprites
Elemental - Code, basically
Wizened - Someone whose 'craft' was vidya.
Darkling - Betraying another "player".
I figure this person was some D&D nerd or whatever, playing a bunch of early arcade and computer games in the 80s and then she got snatched up and gets to be the hero, and over the years the Keeper added more and more "innovations", so it ended up being like Far Cry Blood Dragon where it's all modern retro. Possibly with tropes like BLOOM and BROWN, or looking like every video game that's been in a movie, where they make the colours and polygons so obviously fake that Granny and Grampa would never mistake the game for anything else.
>>45618451
Fairest are protagonists so go with that. You are the main character after all. Also you mention that he was basically a video game character but what kind of game? FPS, RPG, Stealth?
Either way go with a kith that fits what could have done in that "Game".
>>45618518
I mean any game. Have you ever seen this show?
https://youtu.be/4sYkXWqbXYU
Basically that. You're just the pawn. I figure playing as either the NPC or PC in these scenarios would work (a True Fae after all might want to be the protagonist hero, or the controlling villain, or the ostensibly neutral third party who runs the show and just wants it to be as dramatic as possible whether you win or lose)
Ooh, Oracle might work. For a sort of Live, Die, Repeat/All You Need is Kill/Edge of Tomorrow sort of thing. You "die" but get to reload your "save".
>>45618642
Soldier would allow you to fit into any kind of video game and still be effective.
Draconic could also be useful, it's shows that as the main character of these games its harder to hurt you, You hit harder, and you can be intimidating as fuck.
Also lastly there is the gameplayer. It increases your int & if you try to solve a problem with logic or GAME THEORY, you can spend a glamour to gain the rote action.
>>45618642
God i feel old now. Thanks
>>45618772
I don't know if Gameplayer completely fits, since that seems to be more for things like poker or chess or something like that. But hey, it's just a theory... A GAME THEORY. Thanks for watching.WELCOME BACK TO THE SUPER AMAZING END CARD TOURNAMENT
>>45618871
Jeweleyes could also work. Its shows the stamina and determination of the character.
>>45618965
Yeah. I can think of a bunch of things. I think in the end I'm going to go with Soldier (that blessing is just too good) and maybe either Oracle (Reload your save) or Mirrorskin (Customize your avatar).
Still need to think a bit more on who they are to figure out the Seeming. And decide whether they still like vidya or hate it.
>>45617101
No longer stuck but been busy with a load of other stuff for the past month or so.
>>45617320
Yaya but what's so bad about that hmmm? Cofd goes into the onyx path one along with any meta shit about the company and any talk of their other games. WoD general gets all the world of darkness talk.
>>45619240
Alright cool. But what is this other stuff? I thought you were not currently working on any CofD books?
>>45617541
if you read the rest of the post with the word "unkillable" that seems to be driving you into a frenzy preventing you from reading further, the author mentions that the players researched the "unkillable" monster's bans & banes and then the combat characters fucking wasted it.
By the way I'm one of the players in>>45616882
this game and I am the non-combat social/mental primary character that did the bulk of research in figuring out the monster's bane. Then I told the combat characters, who used their weaponry knowledge, money & connections to get us some bane-bullets, and then they used the bane bullets to fucking waste the thing.
We were hunters. We hunted a monster that we couldn't have possibly killed if we jut ran up to it in the street and called it a chumpass, and it was immensely satisfying. My fucking God you're whiny.
>>45619506
Nothing bad about it, it's just that in reality any time the threads get split, the resulting threads are unable to survive. Only CofD threads manage to stick around, and that's only through bitching about unrelated crap. It never works, because there's just not enough product output from OPP or White Wolf, dev talk, or people willing to talk about their games to make split generals work. We all ended up back together because of this and that was after the Great Beast Schism.
>>45620187
also fuck to all the people whining about "YOU'RE MAKING COMBAT CHARACTERS USELESS WAAAH." like i realize /tg/ doesn't play games & it's completely incorrect theorizing but my GOD. Did you read the Hunter: the Vigil 1E book? It mentions dozens of times that mere combat, that walking up to a vampire or werewolf or other gribbly is almost invariably going to end in the death of the hunters. Cells that don't exercise caution and don't do their legwork don't fucking last. This is explicated multiple times. Read the books shitheads.
I'm a shit Changeling ST guys.
I don't get what I'm supposed to write when the politics are friendlier and the characters are more "on the run" than out looking for trouble.
What's the mindset I need to have when writing this stuff??
>>45620663
Throw some context my way. What are the politics like? What are your players on the run from?
And some general advice for this: you're going to need an external threat if there's no backstabbing going on. Something big, whether it be "invading" changelings, other supernaturals or the region itself undergoing some High Weirdness(thanks DaveB) like the time splinters in Seattle, or the Nameless in that one VtR setting...Toronto, I think? Just think of an external factor that either demands the attention of players & the changeling populace as a whole or an external factor that is setting the Courts apart or has maybe destroyed the Freehold system entirely!
>>45620725
I mean Changeling itself has politics where people obviously want to take control but its more of a safety/security thing than a power struggle because everyone's on the run from the True Fae. So to me it's more like a parliment where policy is the name of the game, rather than vampiric feudalistic intrigue full of violence and murder over land and resources.
What are some of your story hooks involving courts? Or just changeling stuff in general.
>>45606168
Yes we do.
>>45620187
>>45620284
Not only that, in Hunter pretty much every character is ALSO a combat character, because they generally don't survive long unless they can fight back or at least run.
>>45620725
The Nameless is in Montreal.
>>45620951
Changelings also want power.
● In 1e's Miami, the Summer Court has kept the Crown and declared that Miami is a land of Eternal Summer.
● In The Rose-Bride's Plight, Winter and Spring are feuding, and Winter will refuse to give up the Crown if another bride isn't selected before the Vernal Equinox.
● In Fear-Maker's Promise, a young autistic boy needs to be tortured insane so that the True Fae can't kidnap any children from the city, but he gets stolen away into the Hedge (so even people against the ceremony will want to get him back).
● In Toronto, the Seasonal and Unseelie/Seelie Courts were at war with each other, and still strike at the 1001 Nights Freehold. You've also got the Ruby Court wanting to have their people in power.
