How exactly does one play a paladin of love?
You remember that sex =/= love, and play a paladin as normal.
>>45557281
I played a paladin of a goddess of love once!
I played it straight, the only difference being that when something went wrong, my character would be pissed off for different reasons.
Orcs raided a town and slaughtered people? HOW DARE THEY RIP THESE PEOPLE'S LOVED ONES AWAY FROM THEM!
Someone kidnapped? I MUST SAVE THEM AND RETURN THEM TO THEIR LOVED ONES!
Monsters attacking? I MUST ENSURE IT DIES SO THAT IT NEVER ENDANGERS LOVE!
Pretty basic. My character was real interested in protecting love.
The GM though. Must have had it in his mind that my ugly-as-sin elf paladin hit his magical realm because he threw mind-controlled woman after mind-controlled woman in my lap offering that elf all sorts of sexual favors.
It was a wierd game.
As a magical girl expy. Just replace power of friendship with love.
>>45557281
Look into some medieval theology regarding the nature of god, but otherwise play as normal. "God loves his creation, I must protect is from destruction."
Or do what Elphelt does, summon giant wedding cakes and then slice people inside it.Elphelt best girl by a landslide.
>>45557281
By being a regular paladin who is also a matchmaker. Also, how do I make a good male god of love? Also, can he be a god of fertility, monogamy and children or is that too much?
>>45557444
I'd say just make him the god of Fathers, Defence of the home, and love. Sounds good to me.
Or you could be unoriginal and just say Cupid.
>>45557444
That could all fit together pretty nicely. I'd only choose one or two of the last three titles, but that's just me.
>>45557410Elphelt is amazing
>>45557444
Go the full Kord route for a male god of love.
Men are expected to be strong and virile, to be protectors and produce strong, virile children.
Men are expected to behave properly and avoid sexual impropriety because they are the center and protector of the family, being the strong and virile one.
Men are expected to take the initiative in romance and love, because it exemplifies male virtue, and may be the only acceptable outlet for a macho man to express his emotions.
And so on and so on.
>>45557485
>>45557493
>>45557506
Great advice. Thank you
>>45557281
Marriage counselor and therapist for couples.
>>45557281
First see >>45557300
This is important
Now for a look into the mindset of medieval people
Love was considered a powerful, elemental force. In fact, until the Renaissance, it was presumed the entire universe functioned purely on the power of Gods love. It was known that stars moved, life flourished and chemicals reacted - and it was believed that this was because God loved creation so much, he willed it to live.
I'm sourcing the Discarded Image here but probably mangling it badly, so if anyone has Elliot's work on hand feel free to correct me
The point is, love was powerful, a metaphysical force. It could drive men mad, lift him to the greatest heights or plunge him into despair. It couldn't be controlled, and basically went about filling out fortune and woe at random like it's own element.
>>45557698
Now that I have the titles in order, what alignment would he take? I was thinking Chaotic good with lawful good relationship values but evil and other alignments can love as well... I think.
>>45557281
This'll give you some guidelines.
>>45557281
Do you mean romantic love specifically, or will any love do?
If the latter, just love the world in all its diversity, and go medieval on any motherfucker who tries to ruin it. Find the value and beauty in all living things, no matter how different from you or insignificant they seem. Remember that nothing is truly a monster if it has the capacity to think and feel. There may come a day when peaceful coexistence is not an option, but it hasn't come yet.
Do whatever a normal paladin does, but less about punishing injustice and more about preserving harmony.
>>45560224
>rapeguard
Yeah, no. The only love there is a love of controlling others. Any "love" that requires charm person or dominate person, and explicitly prevents a person you are physically attacking from breaking free of your mind control is a love of evil.
Disgusting.
>>45557281
>play a paladin of love
Don't. Play pic related, instead.
>>45562161
Looks pretty bland and boring desuwa
But I guess if you have shit taste it's acceptable.
>>45557281
Fucking tired of people mixing up paladins and knights. I know that is because of DnD that there is the confusion surrounding the term, but it's still fucking dumb.
Paladins are champions of a deity.
They might behave in a certain way, but ultimately, their actions are decided by their belief and not an arbitrary rigid set of rules, unless said rules come explicitly from the said deity.
A paladin of love is ultimately the paladin of the deity of love, and not the concept of love itself. He answers to the spirit, not the letter, the man, not the rules.
Knights are champions of a concept.
They uphold a code of conduct that is designed around a certain concept, be that love, mercy, justice, chivalry or otherwise, and that code is rigid and well-thought-out, allowing no ambigious interpretation.
A knight of love ultimately a knight of concept of love, and not the deity.
He answers to the letter, not the spirit, the rules, not the man.
It's no fucking wonder that due to the confusion about the terms people keep thinking up shit like "anti-paladin" or "grey-guard". "Anti-paladin" is just a paladin of an evil god, and "grey-guard" is just a knight of law.
I know that it's autistic to get buttmad about little shit like that, and you would be right, but I just can't help myself - this confusion propagates itself endlessly, and there is no end in sight for it.
>>45562528
Before 4e Paladins were explicitly champions not of any deity, but of Good.
>>45557281
Lewd
>>45562684
This is exactly the shit I'm talking about.
Paladin is a champion of ANY DEITY, not just Good like DnD enforces.
It only became associated with good IRL, because the religion was monotheistic, and the god was Good by default.
Even if we look at the origin of the word, "palatine" we see that they were high-ranking officials devoted to SOMEONE, not SOMETHING.
>>45562528
Actually, it was D&D that made Paladins anything more than knights.
A Paladin was one of the peers of Charlemagne, and dwelled in the Palace with him. Thier leader was basically the chief of staff for the imperial castle.
Even with your obvious inability to identify words outside of game context, the Paladin being the Champion of a Divinity started in Forgotten Realms. Before that bullshit that made Paladins LG specific (except when they weren't) temple guards, they were Exalted by righteousness. Not a god, which in most D&D settings is far from a worthy master for someone devoted to ideals. An ideal, a cosmological underpinning of righteousness.
I know some manlets have difficulty comprehending that a morality can have power in a fantasy setting without having it anthropomorphized for their ease of digestion, but that is where the D&D Paladin started. As opposed to Historic Paladins, who were just elite knights.
>>45562852
You started playing in 3rd edition, didn't you?
>>45557281
>Paladin of Love
I think you mean bard
>>45560224
This is terrible.
>>45560224
I have to agree with >>45561484, Charms are useful but only for keeping things from murdering you long enough to be able to talk to them. Most of them are far too short to be useful anyways.
>>45562852
The Paladins were the Twelve Peers of Charlemagne, the finest warriors of his court. The word derives from "palatine", referring to a servant of the imperial palace of Rome, on the Palatine Hill. There's nothing to do with God explicitly, though the service of God is certainly part of being a member of a noble court.
If you're going to argue about a definition from the origin of the word (which totally neglects the context in which it is used, which is an essential part of meaning), at least do it correctly.
>>45557359
sounds more like he was testing you constantly.
Love through mindcontrol isn't love. Indulge that? Instant fall.
Magical realm works too.
>>45569073
No, like. I didn't realize this at the time. But his roll20 profile pic was of like some freaky mind-controlled disney princess.
That being said, my character took every approach as a test to his dedication.
>>45569132
ah okay, yeah, magical realm then.
>>45568730
>>45561484
>>45560224
Ehn, see? I think that the 'drawing out the love of others to focus on yourself' to a paladin of love actually makes sense.
I'd have given them more compulsion BREAKING spells as well though. The pair together make a thematic duality that would work.
Using their spells would be important, they embody LOVE in all it's forms, so they can draw that love out of others. But if they abuse that, then obviously any love god would smack them with a fall right on the spot, revoking their compulsion powers and probably getting them stabbed in the kidneys.
I'd trust a paladin of love with mind control related powers over just about anybody else, because their very nature would mean that they couldn't actually abuse them to build a harem or something.
![1450278261-2015-12-16-Cried-And-Joy[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/5SIOg9X.jpg "1450278261-2015-12-16-Cried-And-Joy[1].jpg")
Like this but with spreading love instead of joy.
You make people feel better about themselves and love themselves again when they look at you. For reasons other than you wish.
>>45557897
To me, love is generally a good-aligned emotion. Not that evil or neutral-aligned love can't exist, but in those sections of the chart it can easily turn into lust or being possessive of someone, even if they don't reciprocate your feelings.
If it were me, I'd have it be that a Paladin of Love is locked into the Chaotic Good alignment. They may recognize the laws of the land but if there's an arranged marriage and one (or both parties) don't want to do it and are forced to (usually due to political reasons) then the paladin is greatly encouraged to save them.
>>45569636
you could also be a lawful good paladin of love.
Remember, Lawful Good means you get to IGNORE or at least BYPASS unjust laws or contracts if you feel their evil outweights their lawfulness.
Generally a Lawful Good paladin will try to do so through lawful methods like negotiation or due process if possible (where as a chaotic good character would just go full rebel and start shooting bitches until the problem went away), but violence wouldn't be off the table as a last resort.
Remember, Lawful means you FOLLOW A CODE, it doesn't mean you obey the law. I've played a Lawful Neutral Theif at one point, he had his code, and he stuck to it, thievery was just a job to make ends meet, and he used his proceeds to help those close to him, moving him out of evil towards neutral.
>>45557506
Won't that just make for a god of masculinity without the ridiculous Yank obsession with heavy lifting? Or hell, you probably included it already. Whatever.
>>45569510
> pic
How about drugs, at least the legal kind?
>>45569773
Remember, almost every anime protagonist you can name is actually lawful good rather than chaotic. They have their code, and they never break it, chaotic good characters can change their definition of what is a good act moment to moment, not the lawful good.
>>45557366
Sailor Moon claimed she was fighting for love and justice. She never mentioned friendship.
>>45569873
L/CG are shit. Any G but NG is an obstacle towards the very essence of G.
>>45569773
>>45569636
I'd go with a Neutral-Good god whose paladins can be any Good alignment. Love doesn't care whether you're lawful or chaotic, it just wants people to be happy and care for each other.
>>45557281
Like this guy
>>45557281
Or this demon
>>45569849
This is exactly the point.
The basic rule about magical thinking generally is that like begets like.
And the animal that comes up most often in worship in primitive religion is the bull. It represents everything man aspires to be. It is strong, far stronger than the other males of its herd. It is also virile, breeding with all the females in its herd. Even more importantly, it is a leader. The other cattle follow it, and it takes care of its own.
The bull of any herd is the protector and leader, and to that degree, it often represents kingship, and thus, by proxy, paternality. As the bull is to its herd, the king is to his kingdom, as the man should be to his family.
I mean shit, the male norm around the entire planet is based around being able to be a provider and protector, and male identity is almost always closely linked to capability, and for most of human history, that has meant one thing: physical prowess.
>>45571059
Doesn't he molest everything though?
>>45571264
He's spreading love the way he knows.
>>45571150
Wow, that's stupid. It's like saying acrobatics invokes the image of conmen because they sometimes use sleight of hand. If you want to make a god of love, why not just make a motherfucking god of love?"Motherfucking" wasn't intended as a pun, but he can fertilise infertile females and give his dick powers to impotent men, also making himself the NTR god or something.
>>45571150
>realize that I'd probably turn NE knowing I could never live up to that ideal
>there's probably an NE god of Fear and Despair in the setting
>Favored Weapon is likely the dagger
What can I say?I've always been a coward.
>>45571282
Many bull cults would actually do this, though.
If a man couldn't father a child, he'd go down and talk to the local druids in prechristian Ireland, and they'd sacrifice two bulls atop an altar and allow their blood to flow onto a sprig of mistletoe.
This mistletoe was supposed to transfer the virile powers of not one, but TWO bulls to the unfortunate man, in order to give him the breeding power necessary to father children.
I mean shit, what more do you want out of a male-focused fertility rite?
>>45571280
His love traumatizes people.
>>45557281
That's how I play an angel of love.
My favorite 4e article is about succubi, and they developed that "what was the nature of succubi before devils happened" (4e succubi are devils, because their powers make more sense with D&D devils then demons.)
Of course, demon succubi do exist in 4e, but they are explicitly former devils who went native when the Abyss was invaded by devils, and got nowhere fast.
>>45571282
>acrobatics invokes the image of conmen because they sometimes use sleight of hand
What is the Cult of Oliddamara?
>>45557300
Also remember that sex for lust =/= sex for love. Banging a succubus might make you fall, but if your lovadin is in a committed relationship and sex is simply the maximal physical expression of that love, then you could probably find some reasonable leeway there.
>>45571336
I said to you that you were equivocating potency with paternity, you agreed and kept on with it. I don't know what to say to you to pierce the thickness of your skull. You'd think the inside of it being an empty space would make the task easier, but apparently you are just that much impervious to reason.
>>45571408
What the hell are you on about?
>>45571338
That iss a good thing. They won't forget what he preached them.
>>45571338
>>45571524
> a lad who preaches to people by applying instant and permanent tattoos of parts of his holy book on everyone around instead of actually pronouncing sermons out loud for them
>>45557281
By being a bro-as-fuck wingman. Actually, I could see some fun scenarios there.
>Helping the bookworm wizard come out of his shell and find someone special.
>Scolding the rogue for stealing a gift for his gf, before paying for it yourself and telling him to work for it or come to you for help next time.
>Giving the bard a smack on the head for breaking some poor girl's heart, then helping him out when he finds a girl he loves rather than just lusts for.
>Giving the sorceress advise on how to get her love interest's attention, not noticing she's referring to you.
>>45572749
I might just steal that idea for the next time I need to make a party face character. Sounds fun!
I kind of want to try making a better pathfinder paladin of love variant than the one that got posted. Perhaps give them the oath spell so they can officiate magically binding weddings? I liked the "Loves embrace" aura idea, it needs a limit to uses but still the mix of damage prevention and mobility would make it very powerful. Able to make rushed diplomacy checks? There's an idea, a "morality leash" variant of geas, where if two parties freely enter it one can change their alignment to that of the other after overcoming some obstacle together? Could be the source of some fun plot hooks. Probably should replace poison immunity (lets not drop disease for obvious reasons) with charm and later enchantment immunity too, perhaps able to project this as an aura to help verify that there isn't any coercion going on in a relationship? What do you all think?
>>45557300
Are you trying to say that Paladins can't have sex?
>>45557281
As a psychotic yandere imbued with divine power.
![J1SwIXP[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/c3fxC2X.png "J1SwIXP[1].png")
>>45557281
>Initiate_anime_prettyboy_prince.jpg
You do not derive power from gods or ideals, but from the people who swoon over you.
>>45557281
Can I just be a Rouge of Love instead?
If it's in a grimdark world, you must be sad a lot.
>>45561484
Physically attacking them breaks the effect, and you can't actually "control" them, you can only "influence" them and even then only with an opposed Cha check with no retries.
Same can be said for dominate, ordering them to stand still while you and your boys attack it results in a new saving throw to end the effect entirely.
I don't see any other spell in the game that would help the concept of a love paladin further other than Sanctuary.
>>45557281
Rape is a form of love. So just play your character how you'd normally play them.
>>45575309
> clearly I've been going in circles.png
>>45557281
Detect (Opposite of love)
Smite (Opposite of love)
I don't think Hate is the opposite of Love, since the two work together - if there's something you really Love, then you really Hate anyone or anything that tries to sabotage it.
Probably, the opposite of Love is having a huge ego, being egocentric - because people who are that far in love with themselves cannot love others.
>>45575461
>Probably, the opposite of Love is having a huge ego, being egocentric - because people who are that far in love with themselves cannot love others.
But they love someone, so there's some love implied.
I'd say a more fitting opposite would be apathy.
>>45569073
>Love through mindcontrol isn't love. Indulge that? Instant fall.
I disagree. Love through hormones is love, and Hormones override your thoughts.
Love after courtship and diplomacy is love, and courtship and diplomacy are all about changing someone's mind.
Love between a parent and child is still love, even though the child lacks the mental capacity to object.
Granted, there are safeguards on the latter three - Hormones won't make you betray your friends, Diplomacy won't make you go against your core values, and Parenthood cannot be misused without breaking the love.
Mind control, on the other hand, can tell all of that to go fuck itself. Still, it's just a matter of degree to which the person is influenced by external factors.
>>45575461
I guess Detect and Smite indifference? I can already see it before me.
>"Honey, what would you like for dinner?"
>"Hmmm... I don't really ca-"
>The door is kicked in by a paladin of love
>"STOP RIGHT THERE, LOVELESS SCUM!"
>>45575461
> Opposite of love
There isn't really such a thing as an opposite of an emotion in many cases, at least if we're speaking biochemistry.
> the opposite of Love is having a huge ego, being egocentric
That's stupid. You meant lack of empathy, and that far from necessarily means narcissism.
>>45575504
> apathy
That means a different thing entirely, anon.
>>45575504
Yeah but apathy is the opposite of everything.
>>45575520
Unless we're going full rock-paper-scissors, the opposite of indifference should be love, and then we'd be going knees deep into Lewis tier verbal acrobatics.
>>45575521
It's the lack of emotions and interests. Love and Hate are the strongest emotions so the absolute lack of them would be the opposite. An apathic person can still feel annoyed, amused or have a laugh, but he won't feel love because it's an emotion far too strong.
>>45575510
> Love through hormones
All our emotions are hormones, m8. If you're going to get materialistic about it, then you'd have to rework pretty much the whole DnD from scratch for anything at all to make sense.
> Love between a parent and child is still love
What about brotherly love? What about love between friends? What about love for a master? What about love for a country? What about love for a physical place? Food? Colour? Music? You can't have a concept be both vague and specific.
>>45557281
By vanquishing the enemies of love.
>>45575559
So apathy is the opposite of both love and hate? You're confusing your language.
Knight lautrec?
>>45557281
Love EVERYTHING
BEAT THE SHIT out of evil
No these aren't mutually exclusive
>>45557444
Sounds an awful lot like Pathfinder's Erastil, honestly.
>>45575837
> Love EVERYTHING
I'd really like to play an NG paladin of compassion who's first and foremost a problem solver who hasn't gotten to smiting anyone ever since he learnt how to.
>>45575837
>>45575966
Isn't that Wonder Woman's current schtick?
Like she literally loves everyone but is still willing to snap a neck if it's the option that does the most good?
Also, /pol/ and asshat arguing with /pol/ please leave
>>45576039
> /co/ shit
I haven't an idea as to what you're talking about, doubt I don't think it is that.
Tenderly
Defend Love from those that would assail it.
That means rapist monsters, crass material greed, seductive bards, and knavish rogues are your enemies, and must be destroyed. Anyone who would oppose Love cannot be allowed to live.
>>45557281
Seems like a pretty standard paladin. He would probably be more pious than most (since God is Love) and prone to having Amors (but never consummating them, since marriage is too important to him)
>>45557763
The concept of love is a pretty modern invention. You married someone because you were good for each other, and could stand each other. This is why there are all sorts of legal and professional courtesan and rich women being okay with their husband's mistresses.
>>45562528
As far as I'm aware, no system has knight-as-champion-of-concept, and it certainly wasn't a historical thing, weeknights were... cops, basically. Rich minor nobles trained as cop-soldiers and working for their lord.
>>45576364
Wow, Lewis fanboys really are everywhere.
>>45573328
No he's reminding the fa/tg/uy not to insert his fetishes into his character.
>>45575723
Could make a case for Solaire too. Man loves his sun.
>>45576451
Concept of love is ancient, but matrimonial exclusivity is relatively recent.
>>45557281
Encourage acts of love and self-sacrifice, which could be as mundane as letting the little old lady into the store before you.
>>45576587
>matrimonial exclusivity for men is relatively recent.
Fixed
>>45576451
Egypt did it. Virginity also wasn't a big deal.
Without reading through all 163 replies:
I think youd have to break the traditional veiw of the armor clad fighter of justice motif paladins follow. I imagine a paladin of love (not specifically of lust) would be more like robes and a soft spoken, careing voice who helps you realize that you matter to people, like a suicide negotiator or somthing.
Pretty much, bard/paladin mix with a little less sex and a little more motivation.
Are paladins even forbidden from benis in bagina?
I imagine the easiest way would be just treating everybody like a part of your family, from the dumb commoner in the starter village to the big bad evil guy, fill out the brother/sister and father/mother space for NPCs, and maybe even PCs.
Mercy obviously required, but not infinite. Even parents need to smack the shit out of kids sometimes for their own good.
>>45576775
>helps you realize that you matter to people
Good luck convincing the Tieflings and Half-Orcs, buddy.
>>45576775
> suicide negotiator
You gave me a mental image of paladins as social workers. That… would actually make perfect sense, if we don't go down the revolutionary/political route, or even if we even do. Filling lost people's lives with warmth by day, fighting against the system by night.
>>45576778
> Are paladins even forbidden from benis in bagina?
It'd be really stupid if they were. And hell, the whole concept of love paladins being LG just wouldn't work.
> treating everybody like a part of your family
You're mistaking love for compassion. Never got why that mistake is so common.
> Even parents need to smack the shit out of kids sometimes for their own good.
You really shouldn't become a parent with that kind of mindset, anon.
>>45557506
So, the Hiromu Arakawa route?
I'm playing a Paladin of Love as somebody who supports all forms of love and happiness and genuinely loves or at least cares for every living being he encounters. He tries to spare all his enemies, or comes to a compromise so that nobody loses their loved ones. He's also a womanizer who, if a villain is an attractive woman of vaguely humanoid proportions or can become an attractive woman of vaguely humanoid proportions, will always try to use the spear between his legs before the one in his hand. The kind of guy who's solution to a cult attempting a virgin sacrifice would be fuck the sacrifice "just in case" and then escape.
>>45576922
To be fairI always broke down crying after a mere lecture. Mom wasn't there and Dad never really needed to pull out the belt.A lot of us just hate ourselves and stopped trying a long time ago.
>>45557281
On a more on-topic note, it's going to be difficult. There will be those in your way who refuse to show the slightest love or compassion to others. There will be those who refuse to show any love to themselves. There will even be those who have locked their hearts away, deciding that if they never let anyone get close, nobody can ever hurt them. With the difficulties you'll face trying to deal with them all. With the unreasoning foes of the undead and the ravenous beast. With the endless grind of traveling from town to town, thanklessly solving the simplest of problems for people too lazy, or too stupid, or too depressed to do it themselves. Let me ask you this, Paladin.
Why even bother? What do you stand to gain at all? Surely you don't think this will bring you some sort of fulfillment?
>>45571508
He gave you the information, now do the research you dumb fuck
>>45577068
All I found was some forums about some game. I wasn't talking about how equivocation has never been done by anyone, so I don't see how that applied to my post.
Make a really ugly Paladin, give him a tabard covered in hearts and stars and make him love everyone, unrequited of course. But he'll never give up, he'll bring his love to everyone whether they want it or not
>>45575510
Love potions aren't rape, right? Since it's just affecting your brain chemistry making you horny for one person, but you totally don't have to act on that uncontrollable lust, right?
By multiclassing into an Apostle of Peace.
>>45571059
You are real evil to bring out this guy and I love you for that!
>>45569873
This goes completely against the D&D morality that you're using. Any character can have a personal code regardless of alignment; their alignment indicates what that code is.
>>45579657
> trying to reason with alignment wankers
Everyone knows NG is the only truly good alignment anyway.
>>45579817
What's wrong with LG or CG?
>>45579657
nope, pretty clearly stated that chaotic characters don't have a code they follow.
Intentions define Law-Chaos
Actions define Good-Evil
Anything else would descend into complete meaningless semantics.
