what are some important rules that a caster should remember, /tg/?
Human kind cannot obtain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost.
>>45489068
GEEK THE MAGE FIRST
>>45489068
The ability of the magic to advance the plot is directly proportional to how well the player understands it.
>>45489136
Watch a dragon, shoot back, conserve straight, and never, ever cut a deal with your ammo.
Break the code on Chronomancy and the Time Lords break you.
>>45489068
S is for Shadow Evocation Sunday
M is for Magic Missile Monday
T is for Tenser's Floating Disc Tuesday
W is for Wish Wednesday
T is for Teleportation Thursday
F is for Fireball Friday
S is for Silent Image Saturday
>>45489068
Excessive skin contact recharges magical energy.
>>45489136
>>45489068
For this thread, it's the corollary:
Mages: Don't get geeked.
>>45489211
So this means that I get to give the wizard backrubs and hugs, right?
>>45489068
Do not suffer a Technocrat to live.
>>45489156
Shouldn't that be inversely?
>>45489232
No, it means you'rerequiredto.
Explosive Runes on every page
>>45489211
I thought it was lesbian makeout sessions that recharged magical energy?
>>45489250
Why the fuck would it be inversely?
>The more you understand it the less it can do
>The less you understand it the more it can do
?????
>>45489157
Finally, sensible rules we can all live by.
>>45489251
If I make handholding mandatory, are backrubs and hugs optional? I wouldn't want to make the wizard too uncomfortable - if they're too nervous while casting a spell, I'd be screwed.
>>45489297
>If I make handholding mandatory,
What are we playing, FATAL? This isn't an ERP, Anon.Not yet.
>>45489068
Holding back too much is worse than not holding back enough
Love is the law. Love under will
>>45489282
Exactly. Magic is at it's lowest narrative potential when it's "tap two land and deal three damage". Weird abstract shit beyond your comprehension? That's the stuff macguffins and plot devices are made of.
>>45489317
I'm sorry that I got so ahead of myself with the lewdness.
But more seriously, I do think it's a pretty cute idea, and a nice way to give wizards a connection to another member of the party. Could make for some nice character development if you focus on this regular interaction of the two characters more than their activities, and either way I'm a sucker for cuddly hugs and gentle affection.
>>45489349
But that pertains to opacity, not strictly comprehensibility. Rather, if it's comprehensible to the caster but incomprehensible to anyone else, then it's very powerful, and if it's comprehensible to everyone else then it's not very powerful.
>>45489381
Why not just say that mana is gained through semen consumption?
>>45489349
No.
Fuck you.
You're just pulling shit out of your arsehole at that point.
Characters are defined more by what they can't do than by what they can. It's working within limitations to achieve goals that's interesting. Characters need something that clearly needs to be overcome, the readers/players need to see why it's difficult to overcome, and then be satisfied by it being overcome.
>Why didn't Gandalf magic the ring to Mordor?
>>45489406
That's not magic, that's fake science.
>>45489403
Because that's very lewd and more magical realm-y. Skin contact can be anything from handholding to backrubs to hugs to just touching any exposed skin every so often. It could be loving, it could be just something that's done.
>>45489453
>Skin contact can be anything from handholding to backrubs to hugs to just touching any exposed skin every so often.
Anon, I think you have a problem.
The most important thing to know about magic is that it happens by accident when you're very very depressed and planning to assassinate someone for keeping people like you in a third class citizen position in society and then once it happens you don't have any way of figuring out what happened because all the sources on magic are stupid wiccan ritual magic folk tradition and gross old man sex magic
>>45489437
Clarke's third law
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
I want you to seriously consider the implications of what you're proposing. If you let magic just keep doing things without explaining them, you'll very very quickly run into "why didn't it use X power earlier to solve all these problems?" and lose internal consistency. Let me make an analogy to BSG
>"magic" people invade the planet by destroying the "arcane" defenses to get their "magic" fleets in
>Plot ensues
>Later, "magic" people bypass those same "arcane" defenses effortlessly
>Why? Because magic
>No we're not going to say why they had to destroy the first "arcane" defenses but not the second
>Fuck off, it's magic, I ain't gotta explain shit
>>45489406
If Gandalf had clearly defined powers, maybe he fucking would have. He seems powerful enough to be at least a level 5 wizard, right? Shouldn't he have a spell of teleportation? The fact is, we don't know what he can do, so we have to take the author's word for it and the plot gets to move forward.
>>45489470
Give it to me straight doc, what's wrong with me?
>>45489567
You're trying to claim that you only want touching and rubbing in an innocent way to mask the fact that you'revery lewd.
>>45489558
read nigger, READ
http://brandonsanderson.com/sandersons-first-law/
>>45489508
Magic can have rules, they just shouldn't make sense. You get three wishes from the lamp, and that's it. Why? It's magic. You can never be harmed as long as you hold onto this bridle. Why? It's magic. Your example is still sci fi, just not rigorously presented, and using the word "magic", even though there's nothing magical present. There's nothing numinous about it.
>>45489595
>Recommending a hack writer who wishes he was statting video games
>>45489406
You're not wrong about how definitions on magic affect characterization and plot.
But recall the original statement pertained to
>The ability of the magic to advance the plot
The more tightly defined magic is, the less able it is to advance the plot. The more open-ended it is -- the more freedom the storyteller has to pull some bullshit magical development out of his ass -- the more capability it has to advance the plot.
This is practically tautology we're talking about, here: If magic can do anything, it can do anything. There is no situation that magic with no defined limits cannot advance, and no way in which it cannot advance it. Its potential is maximized.
Now, none of this means that handwavey undefined magic makes for GOOD plot developments; only that it holds the greatest potential for moving the plot along (even if that motion may be in very unsatisfying and contradictory ways).
>>45489068
The narrower end of the wand goes toward the enemy.
The thicker end of the staff goes toward the enemy.
Keep your books in waterproofed packing.
Do not cast Fireball in a room smaller than the radius of the Fireball.
Polymorph is not for the bedroom...unless she's into that.
>>45489595
Sanderson is a hack. You gonna quote L. Ron Hubbard at me next?
>>45489601
>You get three wishes from the lamp, and that's it. Why? It's magic.
Can I wish for more wishes? The ability to grant wishes myself? How about free time travel (to go back to before I wished for it and get more wishes from paradoxes)? Can I wish I had your powers without your limitations? I wish I knew how to rules lawyer more wishes out of you with my next two wishes?
>You can never be harmed as long as you hold onto this bridle. Why? It's magic.
What does it mean to be harmed? Does this mean nothing bad can happen at all such that I'm not emotionally harmed? Won't that cause emotional stagnation in me which can be construed as harm? Won't I grow complacent with my immunity to harm and begin perceiving otherwise negligible things as harmful? How is it preventing me from harm anyways? If an arrow is shot at me will a miracle occur to stop it? Will fate prevent the arrow from ever being loosed in the first place? Does it just bounce off my skin? What if I grab the bridle while the arrow is in flight? Can multiple people hold onto the bridle at once and all be immune to harm?
>>45489649
>>45489673
Sanderson's writing sucks. His magic systems and worlds are very well thought out.
>>45489685
>Can I...
No. Because magic. Were you expecting a cogent proof incorporating real world logic in why a genia does what they do?Next stupid question.
>What does it mean to be harmed?
Whatever the author wants it to mean.Because magic.
>>45489657
There's a secondary adage you should consider
>Coincidence is great for getting INTO a situation
>But it should NEVER be used to get them OUT of a situation
>That's what character development and action is for
All stories in all mediums come down to one thing, the Characters.
You can advance a plot with a sonic screwdriver, or Superman's next power-up, but it's going to taste like dirt. That's why there's a rule telling you not to do it. It turns out badly.
>>45489673
>>45489649
Pretty fucking successful for a hack. This some kind of /lit/ meme?
>>45489768
/lit/ hates genre fiction in general, except for the sci fi/fantasy gen, so maybe one of their memes? But definitely not a /lit/ general meme.
>>45489768
>Now, none of this means that handwavey undefined magic makes for GOOD plot developments
For an illiterate, you sure do seem to have a lot of opinions about writing.
>>45489734
You know, I'm just really disappointed in /tg/ that I'm the only one on this side of things right now.
Having a different opinion should be fine as long as a group of people can self-bifurcate along that line and not have to ruin each other's fun.
>>45489801
>You can advance a plot with a sonic screwdriver, or Superman's next power-up, but it's going to taste like dirt. That's why there's a rule telling you not to do it. It turns out badly
Are you sure I'm the one that's illiterate?
>>45489685
Okay. Let's put it this way. One of the properties of the natural world is that it obeys regular principles that we can determine from observation and experimentation. Something that did not obey these principles, we would call 'supernatural', say, magic. By definition, magic cannot obey discernible natural principles, or it wouldn't be magic. If it follows understandable, regular rules, it's not magic. When a guy in martial arts uses lymph node massage to stimulate someone's chakras, that's not magic. It's fake, but it's not magic. You can learn how to do that by joining his dojo and training hard. Similarly, spending 5 mana to cast a level 2 fireball isn't magic.
>>45489884
If you've added some kind of new fundamental force to the universe, that say, allows you to turn mana into a fireball, that force, explainable or not, is called magic. Because it's impossible in our reality.
Fuck off.
>>45489920
So when a spaceship opens a wormhole, that's magic too? You fuck off.
>>45489981
Yes, it is. Haven't you ever heard the term speculative fiction?
I'm fucking out of here. It's 1 in the morning and I have class.
>>45489830
Once a fucking-gain:
>Now, none of this means that handwavey undefined magic makes for GOOD plot developments
Learn.
To.
Fucking.
Read.
I am saying the exact same thing you are: Using handwavey undefined magic is not GOOD writing.
However, the discussion was never about what makes for GOOD plot developments. The discussion is about what holds the greatest capacity for new plot developments -- regardless of quality.
We're talking about what CAN be done, while you're talking about what SHOULD be done. We're talking about possibility, while you're talking about quality. You're not wrong about those principles of good writing, but they're in an entirely different
Imagine someone barging into a conference on overpopulation and claiming that mandatory sterilization and euthanasia programs are PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE because they are immoral. That's basically you right now: You're taking the limits of *appropriate* methods and presenting it as the limit of *possible* methods. Even if your "ought" claim is correct as far as "oughts" go, that doesn't make it an actual limit on the available possibilities.
>>45489593
Yes, I am very lewd. But here's the kicker - though I enjoy lewd things, I also very much enjoy innocent touching and rubbing, and appreciate things that help build relations between characters and give them personality.
After all, what's the point of lewdness without something behind it? I could get just sex with no story from porn, and sometimes the story is far more enjoyable than anything sexual.
>>45490017
Speculative fiction != fantasy. That's why it's called something else.
>East Coast
Should have guessed. Rest up for Algebra II or whatever.
>>45490060
Watching you RP must be fascinating.
Are you the pitcher or the catcher? You seem like a bottom.
>>45490071
Seems like a Shortstop to me
>>45490071
I don't think it'd be fascinating. I tend to get in character and work with the group - if they need me to be the guy to take charge since they're passive, I step up. If the groups' already full of forward people who make lots of decisions, I take a back seat until I feel I'm needed. Sometimes I'm the only guy who really gives a shit about character development and roleplaying, and that's fine in its own way - I get to decide a lot of stuff for myself, even if it never matters to others.
Also, another point on the touching and rubbing thing - even if it's not the way I'd do it, the idea of a magic system not based around the individual, but interaction between at least two, is very interesting. It's not even in a master familiar sense, so I don't think it's ever been done before.
>>45489403
>>45489453
Depending on your tradition of witchcraft, it is. There's a reason the witches utensils are traditionally phallic, why Odin was mocked by Loki for learning magic, and why it was a woman's art in Nordic cultures. You also see it in Egyptian myths
Semen = life = magic. This is 100% rooted in historic magical practices.
>>45490071
As another man willing to cuddle with four of his fellow male group members including the DM, I'd say my own personal RP really isn't that affected
>>45489068
As is Above, So is Below
>>45490434
Willing as in like, if someone suggested it you'd just casually agree? Or willing as in it's something you wish would happen?
>>45490434
Are you just lonely, or are you just open to cuddling?
I feel like it'd make party relations strained when it confuses that line between friends, and I wouldn't want to upset any members that might be gay or bi by not being gay.
>>45489068
Laws? What laws?
It's MAGIC, ain't got time to explain that shit.
>>45490518
>>45490543
I guess just a bit of both. I'm prone to drunk cuddling, and I've actually cuddled them all before. I'd like to be close enough to all of them to do it sober comfortably, but y'know, machoism and all that. I just really enjoy platonic affection, it probably helps that I consider my self open enough to be bisexual depending on the man. And if a friend was gay or bi it'd probably end up with a bit of cuddly experimentation. I don't know, I'm just really needy I guess
>>45490665
Sounds like common symptoms of cock-lust.
That's my diagnosis.
>>45490665
You might be a little bit gay. Or very lonely. In my case, that's combined with a pessimistic outlook on the idea that, between my own lack of interest in pursuit and lack of relevant skills and qualities, I will never obtain female affection.
But cuddling with guys is a line I don't dare cross, because it makes a relationship weird. It can't really be friendly - friends don't cuddle with friends - and it can't be loving, because I'm not at all gay enough to cross that line. If I had a girl in my life, I'd never consider it.This entire conversation is also a metaphor for varying forms of magic usage.
>>45489211
LIES!
magical power comes from virginity!
>>45492790
True but not all of it.
Magic that comes from virginity is the weakest due to it being very bitter.
>>45492801
no, actually it's the most powerful because you have to master yourself before using magic.
>>45490063
>using the fact that someone lives on the East Coast as derogatory
>Using a group theory course in the same manner
Shit Poster-kun, you're retarded.
Blink, teleportation and portal spells can do more than just move things around.
Wednesday 5 o'clock PM is a dick. Ate my sandwich out of the fridge and set fire to the romance novel section of the library. Avoid at all costs.
>>45489068
The specific vocal, material and somatic components create a specific spell. Making it somehow different to be special snowflake doesn't make you cast special spells. It makes you fail trowing a spell.
And remember, children! It's Swish and flick!
>>45489595
I too liked magical rules that were simple, logical and consistent when I was a snot-nosed teen. Then I realized that the only authors who need them are the ones who are so bad at what they do that their stories aren't compelling regardless.
The actual solution is much simpler; don't let magic ever be the solution. As soon as magic takes on any form of concrete role in your story it loses all sense of wonder that it might have otherwise held.
