So /tg/, what's with the quel'dorei?
Fluffwise they have this addiction with magic. As long as they use it and generically wield it, they are normal functioning members of society. As long as they haven't got it anymore, they become feral wrecks in need of a fix.
How does this work? Are they a heroin based civilization?
Does this particular kind of heroin influence their biology? Their eyes change to green with demonic magic intake after all.
Is it more insulin and less heroin?
Thoughts?
They were addicted to the magics of the Sunwell.
Scourge invade, 90% of the population gets dead, and then Sunwell basically goes boom when Arthas rezzes his BFF Kel'thuzad into a lich.
Elves are devastated and cut off from their source of magic, causing them to go into withdrawals.
90% of the remaining 10% rename themselves Sin'dorei (children of blood) while the other 10% of the 10% remain Quel'dorei (only 1%).
It's thus addiction that leads Kael and friends to Outlands in search of salvation.
Fast forward to the end of BC and the Sunwell is restored. Nearly five years later and the elves are slowly getting back to the normal state that they were before the Scourge came and wrecked the place.
In short, it was a dependency on the magics of the Sunwell, so when it went they had to substitute it's immense arcane power with Fel, as Fel is more potent than Arcane, but more corrupting.
>>45340874
Yeah but they're with the Horde now.
>>45340874
yeah, i know the history behind it, I just want to understand how the hell you can develop an addiction with withdrawal symptoms to what is essentially a tool, something you don't actually consume to live or to function normally on a day to day basiss, but you just use.
Does magic give you some enzyme? Do you need it to break down the carbs you eat?
It's not like if you accidentally break your smartphone, or your bike, or your electric toothbrush and cannot replace it anytime soon you get withdrawal symptoms?
>>45340977
Is an addiction of the soul.
>>45341046
It does have very physical, and physiological, drawbacks to be something that metaphysical though.
Can you please elaborate more?
>>45341187
* for beign something that metaphysical
sorry
>>45340886
And??
>>45341187
What the hell do you want? It's Warcraft.
There's no explanation; it's addicting because the plot says it needed it be, there's no real explanation otherwise and there's no "science" behind it.
Not sure what you're expecting from Chris fucking Metzen. Why not expect a Monkey to play Mozart while you're at it?
>>45341358
>it's bad writing
No need to get angry though.
>>45340977
>I just want to understand how the hell you can develop an addiction with withdrawal symptoms to what is essentially a tool
Consider it less of a tool and more an enviromental factor. The Elves used it and their bodies adapted to the arcane magic being around. Having magic in their system is normal for elves, and then suddenly their main source was gone.
It isn't exactly great for humans to live in complete darkness, is it?
The new expansion basicly has the same thing happen to other elves, so maybe arcane energy is inherently addictive and elves are especially vulnerable to this. I don't know, I'm not very well informed on Warcraft lore.
But magic isn't always just hand movements and incantations. As long as it's internally consistent, it can be whatever it wants.
>>45340977
Dude, there's people addicted to pretty much anything in real life, including the internet.
>>45341460
Thanks, this seems sounder.
So it's basically like insulin for a people made of diabetics.
Does this imply that humans are less vulnerable than elves to magic? They did use it for generations without developing any drawback-like symptoms to it, after all.
>>45340977
>>45341460
Magic is inherently addictive in Warcraft
Elves live for thousands of years and they were all constantly exposed to it even the lowest commoner (or however low social ranks go in the Thalassian nation)
What source of magic do human mages/the remaining high elves use? No one knows. It's one of those wow plotholes
>>45341358
>No science behind it = bad writing
Do you even Fantasy?
>>45341537
Maybe, if so there might be some stuff in mage related content.
Blood elf stuff does seem to be a lot more magical than human civilisation, with floating light crystals and golems everywhere. Having a literal well of the stuff will probably make you use it more too.
>>45341616
>plot said so because reasons
>good fantasy
Internal consistency, my friend, is quite the key.
>>45341662
There's plenty of inconsistencies and holes in wc lore (such as how no one ever mentioned magicaddiction before or after the plot needed belfs to succumb to it even though humans use it all the fucking time), but that they don't explain stuff in terms of modern scientific concepts is not one of them
>>45341712
>>45340886
That was for game population numbers. The Alliance used to seriously outnumber the Horde (just like in lore).
>>45341712
it's not that anything more specific than
>plot says so
must only be explained in scientific terms.
An author worth his salt should make an effort and either don't write bullshit stampeding over previously established background, or write especially awesome and well thought bullshit that gives an alternate interpretation over previously established background.
Obviously you need a richer and more detailed background to be able to do that, which again, warcraft should have had given the time the franchise has been around. I guess the authors weren't that good to begin with.
>>45341894
lots of fanfiction-level official fiction books though.
>>45341712
The inconsistency issues crop up mostly in Cataclysm and beyond. "Age of Mortals", the faction conflict, Alternate-timeline/Grom and/or Sylvanas getting away with everything while rubbing the Alliances' nose in anything emotion that's not Lawful Stupid, The Blue Warchief phenomenon, and so on.
>The Blue Warchief phenomenon
Don't be hatin' mon.
>>45342036
I mean Varian Wrynn in MoP becoming "High King", invalidating the other racial leaders (and races) and the Alliance ceasing to be an alliance.
>>45340977
>I just want to understand how the hell you can develop an addiction with withdrawal symptoms to what is essentially a tool, something you don't actually consume to live or to function normally on a day to day basiss, but you just use.
put your smartphone in a locked drawer for a month and get back to me.
better yet, do it to a teenager.
>>45342126
Fuck that sht
Do you know why they did that?
Because the factions must be carbon copies of each other. For the horde, the leader of the poster race (orcs) is the faction leader, so obviously the same must happen for the poster race of the alliance
IT makes no fucking sense. First of all Nelfs and draenei aren't close allies but rather quite distant peoples with mutual interests
Second of all it is FUCKING IRONFORGE that is the powerhouse of the alliance. Stormwind was recently rebuilt after being genocided and spent at least three years under corrupt regency. And recently went fucking bankrupt as a le funny Westfall writing device after the Northrend war
Ironoge on the other hand, is loaded as fuck (all them minerals) and has a massive hardy army that has been destroyed in wars recently
Actually I went way ahead of myself there. IS that high king bs real? Source?
Anyway, it is symptomatic of what Blizz has been doing with both lore and gampley ever since the Pardinator was moved to Titan: Neutering everything and making it samey and functionally equivalent in all ways
>>45341537
Magic in all Forms is corrupting in WC. Remember that it's a game born in the 90s, which means a lot of grimdark. It's also the offspring of WHFB, which should tell you enough.
Also, Elves are highly mutagenic. Elves are actually Trolls that stuck around a source of Super-Magic, which made them mutate.
Then they split up and mutated again (Naga, Night Elves and High Elves), and after TFT they mutated again, into Blood Elves.
At least it used to be that way. Don't know if they retconned it. WC lore is as shitty and retcon-riddled as 40k lore.
>>45342251
>For the horde, the leader of the poster race (orcs) is the faction leader
did you miss the last xpac (understandable if the answer is yes, the next one is looking more promising)
>>45342314
I heard that in the next xpac Sylvanas will be the warchief.
I don't know how or why anyone would trust a genociding batshit insane undead elf but it is happening.
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/gSZ66YU.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
>>45342314
I agree. New Warchief coming through
>>45342251
>Stormwind was recently rebuilt
And its still a less-efficient city design than both Ironforge and Darnassus.
When flying mounts are considered, Darnassus and Thunder Bluff are by far the most efficient cities for each faction for players to use. A pity Blizzard limits all the exclusive vendors into the ones they wish to be capitals.
>IS that high king bs real? Source?
Play Mists of Pandaria, or suffer through Knaak's book Wolfheart. They effectively did a character-assassination on Tyrande to make Varian look good.
>>45342314
Did you miss the Legion expansion details? New Warchief in pic.
>>45342372
Wasn't her plan to kill every living thing on Azeroth? Didn't she get Best Tauren killed and is pretty much despised by Trolls and Tauren? What happened to that?
>>45342362
>>45342372
>>45342389
I thought that she was just going to be our field commander in the Broken isles, and Vol'Jin was just gonna sit at Orgrimmar being our "Warchief"
>>45342389
>They effectively did a character-assassination on Tyrande to make Varian look good.
That's also where warlocks contrivedly save Varian's life or something? Instantly making him like them and making fel magic explicitly unbanned
Again, the same shit, they do retarded lore-writing things to make all the game mechanistic categories equivalent. Can't have little Jim think warlocks are outlawed if that's what he wants to play after being exposed to our marketing mascots in Hearthstone
>>45342372
>Sylvanas as warchief
Oh...no...
oh hell no!
She is going to get the Kerrigan redemption threatment...
>>45342402
>Wasn't her plan to kill every living thing on Azeroth?
Likely still is, hasn't been retconned just downplayed.
>get Best Tauren killed and is pretty much despised by Trolls and Tauren?
No, that was the Grimtotems.
>>45342460
Vol'jin is "missing" and current quest content in the Alpha implies that Sylvanas really isn't trying to hard to find him.
>>45342472
No, its the Scenario instance called A little Patience or ALP. They write Tyrande in as an incompetent commander that Varian has to handhold Tyrande lest she get all her troops massacred. Even worse treatment in the books, but also spreading the stupidity bug to all night elves so that humans have to bail them out, as well as making Orcs into plot-driven ubermensch. There's even an achievement deriding Night elf fans.
Developer Kosak and author Knaak are universially despised by anyone who played Night elves in WC3.
>>45342515
>She is going to get the Kerrigan redemption treatment...
Duh. When your a fan favorite, you get away with everything. She'll probably stop being the textbook definition of Neutral Evil, and thus, interesting.
>>45342402
People like zombies and hot chicks.
>>45342597
tfw no Zandalar in the xpac, I hope its a patch or something.
>>45342597
Why is Sylvanas even alive?
I remember 2 things about her, her hatred and desire to kill Arthas, and how miserable and depressed she was about being a undead.
I know Arthas is dead, so why doesn't she just kill herself?
>>45342677
She did, but came back via Valk'yrs because she's destined to Warcraft-Hell for being pure evil.
>>45342626
>Zandalar
But they already got loreraped, anon
>>45342372
who is that elf in the background?
>>45342677
Killed herself after WotLK, ended up in hell (or maybe illusion by the Old Gods) and thought it would suck.
In hell, the Valkyr contacted her and offered servitude. One took her place in hell and the others serve and raise new undead.
Now terribly afraid of dying, Sylvanas sees the Forsaken as her personal shield and is out to destroy any threat.
Every point in that story would set her up as a future villain, but it's still unlikely to happen because she's too popular.
>>45342697
She literally goes to hell and I still know people who defend her and say she isn't evil.
Serves her right anyway.
>>45342757
I thought Zandalar was just mostly dead, so that you could still help them, not all dead.
>>45342804
>help them
They got loreraped into being troll nazis during Cata and reumed that roll full-time during MoP
Wait, what did they do to Tyrande? While i've dropped playing Warcraft post-Cataclysm, i've still vaugely kept up with the lore... but i missed that part entirely.
Also, what is Furion up to nowadays?
>>45342935
Her only real role in in WoW anymore is Malfurion's wife who worries at home. Malfurion plays a fiddle while his race loses people, land, and competence.
>>45342273
>Magic in all Forms is corrupting in WC. Remember that it's a game born in the 90s, which means a lot of grimdark. It's also the offspring of WHFB, which should tell you enough.
Yeah sure, but in warhammer lore magic is some sort of force not inherently natural, brought in the world when the warpgates fell, and previously used in its most refined and stable form by old ones and young elves.
This way, in the current setting elves are still corrupted in body and mind by its raw, unrefined power as much as the other younger races do, and most of all humans are extremely prone to be changed, twisted and mutated having been exposed much more of the other races (elves knew of its peril and dwarves just went into underground vaults until the fallout settled).
How can we justify wow magic being inherently addictive, while human mages are a respectable profession who don't always turn to be future warlocks?
>invite the Scourge to Azeroth because they want more magic
>break the continents because they want more magic
>kidnap an incarnation of pure goodness and turn him into evil because they want more magic
Have Elves ever actually contributed in a positive manner to the WoW setting?
>>45342036
Vol'jin is a race traitor and the worst Warchief
gas the Darkspears, troll wars now
>>45343095
>How can we justify wow magic being inherently addictive, while human mages are a respectable profession who don't always turn to be future warlocks?
Actually it's in the lore that any magic user will become an asshole. But it's largely that. You don't turn evil. And of course there's the part where the writers don't seem to fucking know that's howit's supposed to work
Also it has to do with elves living for a long time and thus being exposed to magic for a long time
>>45343095
>How can we justify wow magic being inherently addictive, while human mages are a respectable profession who don't always turn to be future warlocks?
humans don't live for hundreds of years essentially immersed in a constant flow of magical energy, and we've never seen a human mage get cut off from magical energy. For all we know it *could* happen
>>45340886
that gets covered, something happens with the blood elves and the humans, the humans refuse to help them and thrall offers to take them in, they joined the horde because of a lack of options.
Thanks for reminding me how WoW bastardized the setting that took quite an interesting turn into a mishap of popular culture references and bulwark fantasy cliches.
>>45341712
Its not really inconsistent considering elves are the only race that live for thousands of years. If your civilisation was drawing power from the sunwell for 10000 years and suddenly that power got cut off, it would cause some serious issues. and the reason they got corrupted was because they started using fel energy, fel energy is what causes the heroin withdrawals
>>45343384
>and the reason they got corrupted was because they started using fel energy, fel energy is what causes the heroin withdrawals
losing the arcane magic of the Sunwell was what caused them to go into the withdrawls that created the Wretched, Kael'thas making a pact with the Burning Legion for fel energy broke them out of it
>>45343303
what's the nature of the magical energy humans and elves use? iirc it has something to do with ley lines, and the various Wells are positioned according to that.
Does this not imply that magic runs all over the world in these lines?
Are human magic and elves magic natures different somehow?
>>45343384
>elves are the only race that live for thousands of years
Draenei live longer. There are NPC's that are over 25,000 years old and remember their homeworld.
>>45343303
>>45343438
and how can an entire people being cut off from it if we adopt the ley lines theory?
>>45343449
Draenei are cute. CUTE!
>>45342781
I forget his name but he is the current leader of the blood elves
>>45343475
>>45343438
>>45343457
arcane magic is drawn from ley lines, which congregate in places (IIRC Dalaran was built on a convergence of ley lines), during Wrath Malygos attempted to siphon all of the ley lines to Northrend to stop mortals from using magic, but he was killed and the process was reversed.
There is magic present across the entire world, but in Quel'thalas it was so omnipresent because of the Sunwell that even non-magic using Elves grew dependent on it
if you went from being neck deep in a lake to standing in a puddle you'd think it got pretty dry all of a sudden
>>45343449
and for obvious reasons there are very few Draenei that use non-spirtual magic
>>45342597
>Vol'jin is "missing" and current quest content in the Alpha implies that Sylvanas really isn't trying to hard to find him
Vol'jin is also very popular and I can't see them getting rid of him this fast, Sylvanas will likely be a stand in war chief but vol'jin will be back. I don't really care what they end up doing with her because as it stands she hasn't done anything that is beyond redemption. I always thought it would be cool if she went insane and seceded from the horde to create a 3rd all undead faction, but 3 way WoW sounds better on paper than it would work in practical use. because of her popularity she will either die honorably or have a happy ending.
>>45343559
>if she went insane
She already is insane, anon.
>>45343559
>she hasn't done anything that is beyond redemption
>/tg/ in charge of morality
>>45343592
>imprisoning Koltira was a bad thing
go to bed Thassarian
>>45342935
they decided to not make her a 1337 general, which makes perfect sense when you consider night elf lore. for one shes a fucking priestess and has been for 10,000 years, she has little to no military experience and not much of a track record in leading. night elves dont really care what happens in the real world as long as it isn't cataclysmic, their main focus is the emerald dream. night elves also don't particularly like any of the other races, and tyrande and malfurion are 2 of the original highborne aka super elitists. making varian the high king made perfect sense. dwarves are also too wrapped up in their own personal rivalry's to be considered as good leaders.
>>45343426
oh ok i got that mixed up then.
>>45343449
I forgot about them lol, they tend to stick to holy/spiritual magic so very few of them would have the same issues the elves do.
>>45343641
>they decided to not make her a 1337 general, which makes perfect sense when you consider night elf lore
You officially have no clue what you are talking about
>>45343641
>leaders
why not Velen then?
He's ancient, wise and leads a race practically made of paladins that literally follow embodied holy light beings.
>>45343592
im talking holocaust on all living things insane, not just wanting to do it, actually doing it.
>>45343593
shes just raising some undead and defying the very laws of life and death, its not like shes opening up a national bank and charging 24% interest on new credit applications
>>45343530
a step at a time i feel this thing makes little bits of more sense.
a tangentially related question: were high elves immortal or just very long lived?
night elves lost their immortality when nordrassil fell, did high elves suffer the same after the sunwell?
>>45343801
>she can be redeemed from wanting to genocide the living because she hasn't gone through with it yet
You should apply to the Blizz writer team desu senpai baka
>>45343731
fighting illidan and stopping queen azshara does not make you a decorated leader of armies. I know youd like some hot night elf priestess to be the leader of mankind but its simply not going to happen, ever.
>>45343765
Velen is dead, his apprentice would have been a good option tho, shes pretty badass.
>>45343449
Yea but the Draenei are the same race as the demons, they just happen to be the ones that never fucked around with magic. We know what happens to them if they fuck around with magic, and it's demons.
>>45343859
and you should apply to be a judge in the court of law, convict everyone whos ever had a rape fantasy of rape.
>>45343873
only alternative Velan is dead, main timeline Velan is still alive
>>45343641
To be fair, Tyrande and Malfie did make some pretty big decisions in war during the War of the Ancients. And she led the defense against the Scourge/Legion in WC3.
She is also quite nice as far as night elves go i'd imagine, judging by her treatment of Broxigar. Malfurion seems to be a little bit of a stuck-up asshole, but Tyrande seems pretty chill.
The hero the night elves deserve coup d'etat when?
>>45343641
she's the former general of the sentinels isnt that pretty military experienced?
>>45343901
oh lol, that was not made very clear to me during the quests. I stopped playing WoD after season 2 but i guess they never took velens npc out of exodar? either way Yrel would make a better general than him.
>>45343845
afaik high elves were not immortal ever since they were exiled from the sundering. Bear in mind that Nordrassil was planted at the new well of eternity after the sundering.
It was Norzdormu's blessing of the tree that gave the night elves eternal life, so even before the war of the ancients, the night elves must have been mortal... right?
>>45343959
>implying it isn't Illidan
>implying Illidan did anything wrong
>>45343959
>spends 10000 years watching some dude thats locked in a cell
>lets him escape
>cosplays like an owl
>is emo
>you think she would make a good leader
>>45343951
>>45343974
im not saying shes useless, she is definitely very important to the storyline. but she doesnt command the largest army, the humans and the dwarves are the only ones who could be considered as generals because they provide the most soldiers. Varian himself is quite an inspiring leader to boot.
>>45343982
unfortunately it seens that Blizzard will not use the characters of the alternative timeline in any other expations after WoD
it's a pity becase as you pointed out Yrel would make a better general
>>45344036
demon-cohorting scum
purify the nelf race
>>45344068
He was making the decisions that the Nelfs didn't have the balls to make.
Illidan did nothing wrong
His only crime was bad writing in BC
>>45344081
him taking in the demonic energy to beat magtheridon was justified. he was the hero they needed. but you either die the hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. hes also the biggest cuck in warcraft
>>45344036
>>45343959in the legion alpha Maeve had an item called Memento Stormrage with her
>>45343974
there is also a quest in MoP where Varian proves his vastly superior understanding of tactics and battle strategy. if it were up to Tyrande she would have assaulted the temple without thinking twice and lost everything, she even admits he is a better leader afterwards.
>>45344052
Maybe not the largest army but the sentinels are thousands of years old and specialized in guerilla tactics in the very area that is the only place for the horde to get lumber.Yeah, I think ashenvale should've gone in a different direction
Besides, speaking of lore, as mentioned earlier its unfitting that the alliance has to have a central leader figure. It always amde sense to me that while the alliance were the mroe numerous and had better armies, the horde were better suited for war situations as they're practically a military dictatorship
>>45344081
Yeah then Maiev made him her BITCHHe'd still do a better job than the current sans testicles Tyrande administration desu
>>45344147
Maeve secretly crushing on Illidan? WILL THE EXPANSION FINALLY LET THEM LOVE EACH OTHER?
>>45344175
Isn't that the one that started the entire argument in the first place; cementing her as a bad strategist despite that she should've learned something from experience?
>>45344175
>a quest written by the C team in charge of writing capeshit about the nine class mascot characters
>>45344175
Yeah. I know this isnt a proper argument, but I stopped in wotlk and dont reallly accept any new lore after "there must always be a lich king"
But yes, if you go by Metzens new, improved lore, every person in warcraft besides Varian, Thrall, Anduin and Med'an are complete imbeciles
who should be warchief/ally leader
HORDE
1. Garrosh "Donald Trump" Hellscream
2. Highlord Saurfang
3. Lor'themar Theron
4. Sylvanas Windrunner
5. Bane "Big Guy" Bloodhoof
6. Vol'jin
7. Gallywix
8. Thrall Racetraitor
Alliance
1. Genn Greymane
2. Council of Three Hammers
rest are shit
I'm so fucking glad Anime King is dying in the next expansion. I just hope they don't overload us with the Sylvanas fan pandering. She's fine but not THAT great.
>>45344249
>>45344249
This very thread started out as a discussion of what is bullshit writing and why
WoW lore itself is beyond redemption at this point
>>45344278
Has Saurfang or Lor'themar ever done anything of note?
Gallywix is the real race traitor though, he should have died a long time ago
>>45344302That's why the game Im DM'ing in dnd is set just before the start of WoW, so my players will experience warcraft the way Ive always wanted it to be
>>45344278
>2. Council of Three Hammers
the existance of that stupid thing is where WoW lore became indisputable shit
>the Bronzebeard king dies
>gets replaced with Falstad "isn't Falstad dead?" Wildhammer and Moira fucking Thaurissan because "muh racial unity"
can't wait until Ragnaros gets summoned into the Great Forge
>>45344278
Greymane is the most underrated leader
I hope he gets a badass "For Gilneas!" moment sometime soon
>>45342372
I want to impregnate Sylvanas' bum!!
>>45344316
Lor'themar had like two lines that he doesn't want his fallen to become undead.
That's about it.
>>45344278
>Genn Greymane
>Solution to worgen curse is to lock up entire country for god knows how many years
>a good candidate
I'd rather have Mekkatorque
>>45344335You and group should consdier questing together on a private serve while voiping.. It's not roleplaying but it is a LOT of fun and the classic game is extremely RPGishThat's gaming though and I understand if that's not what your group is after just putting it out there
>>45343007
That shit changes come Legion if the test servers are any proof.
>>45344175
THat's the encounter that touched off the entire debate. A 10,000+ year old general or guerrilla warfare can't counter a basic ambush, and thus cedes her forces to the blue God-Emperor of the Alliance.
This followed by Darnassus possibly getting the Theremore treatment in a beta for the Divine Bell, shit-tier books, Ashenvale and Aszhara. Malfurion eating 60% of her character stories, are why people hate the Lead narrative developer.
That and he's a self-admitted Sylvanas fanboy.
>>45344316
Saurfang in Wrath and Lor'themar in Mists both showed themselves to be strong and reasonable leaders. Lor'themar proved himself when Arthas attacked the Sunwell and I was very impressed with his leadership dealing with the Thunder King and Jaina "PMS Queen" Proudmoore. I only have Saurfang ahead of Lor'themar because he's and orc and tradition is important for stability.
>>45344338
Having Dark Iron dwarves around is the reason why dwarves are one of the only interesting races in the alliance atm. Also Muradin is beast.
>>45344381
Smartest thing he could have done. Look what Sylvanas and Varian have done to them in the short amount of time they have opened up.
>>45344577
>That and he's a self-admitted Sylvanas fanboy.
Well that explains a lot.
>>45344601
Dark Irons are cool, but there's literally no reason to have them as a member of the Alliance dorfs considering they're evil as fuck
>>45344552
well, we play in real life (if voiping is the online communications thing), but thanksI play on Nostalrius myself, though
>>45344794
That's what makes it interesting. Horde has lots of races that have evil elements, which is part of the reason they are a thousand times more interesting than Allies.
>>45344601
>hating on jaina
why?
>>45344897
That's the main problem with Blizzard storytelling. They are totally dead set on writing the Alliance as Lawful stupid despite fan protests, so its "hard" writing for the Alliance. Hence all the shitty quests in Cataclysm onwards, and all the Horde plot developments.
>>45344976
Shit development.
>>45345024
>Shit development.
Literally every character these days
>>45345024
eh, she was well done, as far as blizzard goes.
She gets angry when she finds out the blood elves violated Dalaran neutrality to kill theramore
>>45344976
The only way to fix her character is for her to get a good dicking by Garrosh. Sadly we can't have that anymore...
>>45345180
james deen pls go
>>45345107
That's because of the fan backlash about nuking Darnassus like >>45344577 said. THey were dead set on nuking night elves, until the beta forums blew up and they changed it to Blood elves going rebel in Dalaran. They never changed her voice files, they are the original files from when the Divine Bell gets rung in Darnassus.
Btw, if this can be a genenral warcraft lore discussion thread, Ive been curious as to what happened to Garithos?
He died in frozen throne of course, but is neve mentioned in wow iirc, is it the alliance covering up a racist leader?
>>45344976
Because they can't face how shit Thrall was since Tide of war.
Seriouslly, Thrall's argument had no weight behind it whatsoever, its literally selfish incarnate.
And that laughable argument actually convinced someone because he is green jesus?
>>45345286
wow.
blizzard is GW tier with SM wank.
>>45345344
there's no real reason for it to be expanded on further
he was a shitty commander who let his mission fail because of personal prejudices and the Alliance lost Lordaeron and Quel'thalas because of it, what are they gonna do, demand Sylvanas pay reparations for betraying him before he could betray her? Send an SI:7 agent to Tempest Keep to arrest Kael'thas for desertion?
>>45345405
well he wasn't that incompetent in TFT
then they made his advisor the good guy in a book and him into a retarded raycist.
>>45345367
what was his argument
>>45344794
The dark iron dwarfs were never actually evil, they were just slaves.
The War of three hammer just a power struggle between the 3 dominant dwarf families, no one was EVIL.
>>45345344
Lore-wise, No one in the alliance really knew idea who Garithos is and what the guy was up to, hence why they sent all those reinforcement to him in the first place in TFT.
and the fact that Kirin Tor wasn't still there back in TFT lore doesn't help either.
>>45345467
no one sent alliance reinforcements to garithos.
he pretty much picked up the pieces post legion invasion.
>>45345443
>well he wasn't that incompetent in TFT
>treat foreign royalty and the leader of your only magical troops like a subhuman
>send him on a suicide mission
>when he somehow succeeds, put him in a court-martial and sentence him to death for not dying
>he fucks off and leaves you to die
>ally with rebel Scourge to kill the Scourge
>>45345520
>trusting elves after they let your kingdom and family die
>holding a defensive location is a suicide mission
>cavorting with the naga is a good thing.
>said naga were holding alliance prisoners and had been fighting the blood elves a few days prior
>>45345467
the dark iron dwarves were evil before summoning ragnaros, I think. Didnt Modgud taint grim batol with evil magic before thaurissan summoned him?
As for Garithos, its still odd that there isnt a single nod to him and his army when questing in hillsbrad. Its not that far from Dalaran and the other places he did his biz
>>45345443
Thrall's argument is literally just "I won't do shit to Garrosh, but you can't kill our dudes even through we killed your dudes and they fact that everyone of we Orcs helped Garrosh!"
I mean seriously,, who the hell will listen to bullshits like this.
>>45345515
Its said in ask Cdev.
"Despite the ad-hoc nature of his forces, other states recognized him as potentially the last remnant of Lordaeron's government and certainly the strongest warlord in the area. As such, officials from neighboring non-human states such as Ironforge and Quel'Thalas sent him aid, ignorant of his intolerant policies."
>>45345648
>thrall's argument is literally we dindu nuffin and not all orcs
>that cdev description
wow
>>45345607
>>trusting elves after they let your kingdom and family die
it's not like they could have stopped it when they couldn't even defend their own kingdom
>>holding a defensive location is a suicide mission
against overwhelming odds with a force intentionally under-supported
>>cavorting with the naga is a good thing.
it is when it stops one of your only field armies from being destroyed
>>said naga were holding alliance prisoners and had been fighting the blood elves a few days prior
so they should have gone "nah, lets just die"?
>>45345618
They weren't really, The High King of Dwarfs back then was hold by House Anvilmar.
Only after Modimus Anvilmar, High king back then died the three biggest house began an in-fight. House Bronzebeard won and kicked the other 2 house out of Ironforge.
No one is evil when all 3 are acting like dicks.
>>45345728
>its not they could
they knew it was happening and were content to let lordaeron burn while they retreated to their forest magical realm
garithos' town was on the borders of quel'thalas and the elves let it burn down to a crisp.
Kael was doing fine waiting in that island and waiting for garithos to return.
he was an anvil and garithos was the hammer.
>>45345731
>Be Wildhammers
>Get thrown out of Ironforge
>Rebuild in Grim Batol and accumilate about as much wealth as in Ironforge
>Dark Iron gets so butthurt they attack two other clans
Wildhammer > Bronzebeard > Dark Iron
>>45344976
>>45345024
>>45345180
Kind reminder that Jaina did literally nothing wrong.
Except turning on her father, maybe. I mean, he was being an aggressor, but in the end he was right.
>>45345914
yeah.
I absolutely agree
I like wc3 has people doing the right thing get boned over
>>45345914
>but in the end he was right.
only in a self-fulfiling prophecy way
>orcs are inherently evil and should be exterminated
>orcs are forced to defend themselves from the Alliance even after leaving Lordaeron and avoiding all conflict with humans (other than Grom, fucking retard)
>Thrall realizes that no human other than Jaina will ever look at the Horde positively no matter what
>>45345979
>the moment thrall leaves the orcs torch ashenvale and nuke theramore
there.
>>45345979
Except that's utterly untrue.
Many Human worked with Orcs during the War before Cata,
Hell, They gave the position of Supreme Commander of Might of Kalimdor to an Orc.
Also, most Garrosh supporters are fresh young Orcs from Outland who never even faced a human in combat before.
Thus proving Orcs are inherently aggressive bastards.
Stop lying to yourself.
>>45345876
>Wildhammer > Bronzebeard > Dark Iron
This guy knows whats up.
Kurdran and Sky'Ree are my ninjas.
>>45346198
>Go to WoW-wiki to check spelling
>Read Sky'Ree's entry
>Sky'Ree is kill
This is unacceptable.
>>45346246
And in a fire, no less.
At least Sharpbeak is still around.
>>45345979
>>45346077
Orcs as we have seen from the latest expansion ARE in fact a super aggressive species, but considering that their homeworld was literally a hell hole where a majority of things were getting ready to kill them, it rather makes sense that their race would be seen as hyper aggresive in compasion with humanity or any race of Azeroth, seriously the whole ocean is filled with mushrooms that try to infect your brain. And isn't dreanor literally a small island on the world? Cuz I keep seeing a coastline off to the side of the large map.
>>45345833
While I agree the dickass elves had those things coming, he shouldn't mistreat his dwarf soliders.
Dwarfs are bros and the few who stood with Lordaeron even as other nations broke from Alliance.
Also, voice files hinting that Magni might return in new expansion.
>>45346452
to be fair they disappeared with all his artillery when he was about to siege a city
magni is back because blizzard is going all out making this expansion fanwank
>>45346444
It is one of the Continent in that world, there's supposly a large continent full of Ogres to the west.
And the fact that your life was hard is no justification for ruining everyone else's.
>>45344316
Saurfang was the sole reason alliance players didnt camp Orgrimmar 24/7 during vanilla
>>45344976
Jaina was cool but she went off the deep end and is in my opinion no different from sylvanas. I think it would be fitting for both of them to die at some point.
>>45345286
>nuking darnassus could have been a thing
why did they not do this, WHY, STOP LISTENING TO THE FANS
>>45345731
>dwarves acting like pretentious dick
sounds about right
>>45346077
>>45345979
>>45346039
Orcs are 100% warmongering psychos, but the whole reason thrall became leader is because his father and the frostwolf clan were the only orcs that thought peace could work. it makes perfect sense that once frostwolf leadership is taken away the orcs go back to their warmongering ways.
>>45346484
They didn't disappear, they just got lost.
Its as much their fault as the commander's if you can't even give your solider correct maps.
>>45346553
When did Jaina went off the deep end?
Sylvanas committed countless atrocities while Jaina doesn't' even have 1 uner her.
Do you people ever read the story?
>>45346588
yeah, well it was a more nuanced approach than LOLRAYCISS anyway.
>>45346553
>jaina went under the deep end.
>>45346638
>jaina 'Dismantle the Horde, Varian' proudmoore
>not off the deep end
>>45346675
>germany starts 2 world wars
>its ok guys they dindu nuffin it was all the frenchies fault.
oh wait.
>>45343894
Tell that to the people of Southshore and Hillsbrad.
>>45346675
How is that a Deep end?
Dismantle your enemies power structure is a correct political move and generally does not involve genocide or any sort of"EVIL" actions
.
Hell both Nazi German and Empire of Japan was dismantled after WW2, no one ever called it evil.
>>45343894
Sylvanus has massacred multiple towns, Consist Primary of Civilians.
These include Southshore, Hillsbrad Fields, Ambermill , and
Survivors on Fenris Island would also be massacred if the Worgens didnt made it in time.
And Gilneas got lucky that Night elves's ship made it in time.
At the current point of story, Sylvanas is more evil than Arthas. Arthas at least had an excuse. (My soul got stolen!)
>>45346901
Sylv's soul was stolen too, though. Does that not count?
>>45346947
she was a banshee
she is just a soul inhabiting her body.
>>45344081
>>45344036
>Illidan did nothing wrong
Technically, he was doing wrong things, he just wasn't doing them to anyone on Azeroth. Then we went and kicked his teeth in because... reasons?
Something similar applied in WoD. We got this "oohhh the iron horde are gonna gitchu" buildup, but then soundly fed them their own teeth in five minutes and then went through the portal to keep on kicking them while they were down. We had more trouble tripping over elementals and mushrooms and ogres and crazy bird people than we did with the iron horde, and when we did get involved with the iron horde we just humiliated them so bad that they drank demon blood to try and get some of their pride back. The Alliance and Horde had no real reason to push into draenor and when they did they mostly just wasted their time and resources and made a bunch of shit worse. The whole time-travel-but-not-really aspect compounded the sense of empty futility. Oooohh, Velen died! But we have another one of him back home.
WotLK was a continuation of a lot of story threads and held a big threat to the rest of Azeroth that had to be dealt with; MoP wasn't very consequential, but that was ok since its appeal was more about exploring pandaria, with a lot of the same sense of the players just adventuring and following plots they found for the sake of their own curiosity that existed in Vanilla, and it broke up the monotony of world-shattering threats showing up every few years; and Cata obviously was built directly on top of all the old Vanilla stuff and affected everything we knew directly.
TBC and WoD, though, both were played up as being continuations of storylines but actually ended up feeling really disconnected from anything on Azeroth. I mean, obviously, different world, but there was a lingering sense of "why are we here again?" in both cases.
>>45346947
Banshee's are literally just souls, which is what Sylvanus was.
She later stuck herself back into a body, so no she has a soul while Arthas's was locked in Frostmourn.
>>45347076
her own body
>>45346735
>>45346655
Dismantle the horde is the Teen rating way of saying "kill all of their leaders right now"
>>45346901
ok Jaina isn't quite sylvanas tier evil...yet. at least one of them needs to die.
>>45347006
we killed Illidan because he had Gul'Dans skull with sinister intentions. You can't trust a guy like that
>>45347135
no. it is saying, make sure they don't get to keep their MIC intact.
america didn't kill hirohito
>she is evil
no she is completely justified and the dragon dildo she has keeps her happy.
>>45346990
>>45346947
>>45346901
If I recall, undeath in WoW always has a tendency to make you evil. It dulls all the pleasurable senses, and it severs your soul from any connection to the powers of nature or the elements or really any positive divine force. It is possible to hold on to the Light but you have to be strong-willed to the point of insanity to force it to stay with you.
It's actually one of the really dark fucked-up things hidden in the WC lore: being turned into an undead, no matter who you were, damns your soul to the vaguely defined infinite darkness afterlife. Even if you were a super righteous paladin or something, the best you can manage then is to just be "put at peace", you can't join with the light or go to any of the other proper afterlives, and there's a good chance you get the howling torment that Sylvanas is afraid of. Only super powerful divine magic beings can get around it.
Well, unless you get brought back to life properly at some point. There are a bunch of things in WoW that can do that, but in all cases you need someone to do it for you.
I want to FUCK Sylvanas
>>45347179
or maybe sylvanas getting stabbed by yog saron's blood wasn't the most reliable view of the afterlife
>>45347135
>>45346735
>>45346675
>>45347135
Except that's never how DISMANTLING a power structure works.
In most cases, the victors will needs these old leaders to help them organize the new power structure.
Go study some history before talking out of your ass for once.
Jaina did NOTHING evil through out the story,
(Maybe turning on her father counts, but that's about it)
how is she even comparable to Sylvanas?
>>45347163
But he didn't, He used the power of Gul'dans' Skull to kill Tichondrius, which by every standard is a good act.
>>45347169
>>45347179
in wc3 when shes talking to her banshee servants her initial plan is to make everyone on the planet undead like her, thats pretty much textbook evil.
>Well, unless you get brought back to life properly at some point. There are a bunch of things in WoW that can do that, but in all cases you need someone to do it for you.
I never understood why anyone actually dies in WoW, literally every single priest, shaman, druid, and paladin can cast resurrect.
>>45347301
because that is a game mechanic
jaina briefly dies in Warcrimes and all the pandaland spirit gods have to rez her
>>45347222
>or maybe sylvanas getting stabbed by yog saron's blood wasn't the most reliable view of the afterlife
Maybe, but it's still the case that undeath stops you going to whatever your normal afterlife is. There was a whole quest chain in northrend about a paladin looking for a cure to the plague so he could avoid that, the frost DK artifact quest in Legion has you fighting the ghosts of paladins who can't move on because arthas fucked them up, a bunch of hints across all the various undead-related quests that have you talk to ghosts, et cetera.
I wouldn't claim that it's not refuted somewhere or is going to be at some point, since it's Wacraft lore and consistency isn't even on the priority list. I just like it when there's some crazy dark shit implied in the background of this colourful cartoony game.
Like the dragon rape.
>>45347179
Yes Undeath is very unpleasant in WoW, Lore says you need to keep killing to stay alive as undead and every healing spell you cast will hurt more than getting hit in the crouch and giving birth combined.
But Then there's Knights of the Ebon Blade. They kept their sanity and turned their hatred and killing instinct on productive things, like fighting enemies of the world instead of massacring civilians.
So no, Sylvanas had no excuses, especially when they wrote that she wanted to kill her sister just so Vanessa can JOIN her pain.
>>45347329
>some paladins
one of them gives up on the light so he cannot find peace.
the other has so much faith in the light that he cannot move on.
even arthas has his soul stuck in there.
>>45347239
she needs to die man, shes had a good run.
>>45347328
Ohhh really? I have played WoW on and off since 2005 but I have never completed any raids outside of raid finder or the pvp gear ones, so I miss a lot of the lore.
>>45347452
its bad and not present in the game
its in books because jews
>>45347301
>I never understood why anyone actually dies in WoW, literally every single priest, shaman, druid, and paladin can cast resurrect.
It's a gameplay/lore separation thing. The players get easy resurrection because that makes the game more fun/less of a chore. In lore, though, bringing someone properly back to life is much harder. Divine resurrection in lore, for example, requires the will of whatever power you get your powers from - Drek'Thar once asked the spirits to bring his family back to life, and they refused, and when he got mad at them about it they took his shaman powers away. Anduin, mr pure pureness faith in the light himself, once managed to bring his dad back to life but it was treated as something that was unlikely to work and amazing that it did. Arthas tried the same for his horse once and the Light didn't answer.
Other forms of resurrection in lore always require some huge ritual and preparations and retrieving artifacts and such, or else the intervention of god-level entities. It's also generally the resurrection of someone or something that was very powerful themselves, so it's like their own power can give them an extra boost to getting back to life.
>>45341537
Yeah, probably.
Elves are descended from a bunch of Trolls, the race that REALLY EASILY becomes other subraces, being twisted/blessed by the Well of Eternity. They're pretty magic-sensitive.
Humans, much like Dwarves and Gnomes, are descended from Titanic constructs afflicted by the Curse of Flesh. The Titans were well aware of how to make very stable beings, and I'd guess this carries over to Humans as well.
>>45343189
They helped get rid of the Amani alongside Thoradin's united Empire?
>>45347509
>They helped get rid of the Amani
DIS BE OUR LAND
>>45347353
this + the way he handled Jaina just proves that Varian has a sense of honour. Keep in mind that when he was fighting in the arenas he became friends with Valeera, Varian must believe that not all horde are bad and he just needs to help the good ones. Also didn't Thrall recognize him as the missing king and was the one who initially sent him back to Stormwind?
>>45344794
I dunno, they've proven themselves loyal members of the Alliance recently.
>>45341537
It's more comparable to people who live in extremely high altitudes and get used to the thinner atmosphere and then have problems with breathing when they come down closer to sea level.
>>45347452
You are just saying that because you don't want your precise favorites to die instead, which is why you can't even make a single constructive argument on the matter so far.
>>45347545
I never liked Varian, but lately they've sucked away even the stuff that tried (poorly) to make him interesting, in what seems to be an attempt to recast the Alliance into purely noble perfect good guys. It used to be like "the alliance has high ideals and civilization but also have scheming nobles and corruption" and so on; the humans had prestor and the trouble with the defias, dwarves their three hammers, gnomes the treachery that lost them their city, et cetera. And balancing that, the orcs, tauren and trolls were barbaric but basically all honourable and loyal to each other.
Not counting the night elves or forsaken, in either case. They were later additions to both sides and there was a period where it wasn't certain what faction they'd be in or if they'd even be in the alliance or horde. The belves and draenei, too, were added later.
They've taken out every last shred of the alliance having any flaws, though. Like, literally, if you look at the pandaren faction selection descriptions, the horde description gives them some moral ambiguity, but the alliance one doesn't admit to anything potentially bad.
>>45347545
its the exact opposite, Varian hated the Horde (especially Orcs) for his time in arena and before,
He only became more open minded after WoTLK for no reason (in reality its because Jaina was written to be more aggresive.)
Horde had no Honor, why would you fight the with it?
The only thing at this point that could get me back into wow is a raid where we kill sylvanas.
>>45347668
I could really care less who dies or lives, its a fictional story. I really like Jaina too, whats not to like about a hot blonde mage? I think for the sake of telling a great story then someone important needs to get off'd every now and then.
>>45347675
wasn't Prestor Onyxia in disguise? that doesn't really count as a human. I hated Varian before because I didn't know anything about him, I'm actually impressed with how they've developed his character, he truly fits the role of the noble king that has to make all of the difficult decisions, you can see it on his face in every cut scene.
>>45347719
thats not quite how honour works. showing mercy and diplomacy towards someone you hate is a perfect example of honour. its like the generals in ww2 that condemned the execution of enemy soldiers who surrendered. If some asshole had spent the last few hours trying to kill me and then threw his hands up right before I was about to pull the trigger, I would feel very much inclined to shoot him.
>>45344381
>Genn "Build Wall" Greymane
>>45344381
He built the Wall to ward Gilneas from the Outside.
Worgen Curse happened much later and had nothing to do with that wall.
>>45347897
then you are terrible at writing stories and should never ever talk about how to write stories.
If you have to kill a character to write story then you are at least as bad as the talentless hecks WoW is currently using.
Yeah and horde didn't have any honour. so why bother using it on them?
>>45342781
>>45343486
lor'themar? i dont think so, lorthemar uses a different hairstyle, also, i think he was under sylvanas orders and secretly in love with her before she became undead, though im not sure about this
>>45347988
>world of WARcraft
>no one important should die
>WARcraft
ok there, please continue being the superior storyteller.
>>45347545
The whole Arena shit is completely FUCKING retarded.
How the fuck would Thrall ever allow blood sports with fucking SLAVES in his own god damn capital?
>>45348105
because hes an orc, he believe peace is an option but hes still an orc.
>>45347897
>wasn't Prestor Onyxia in disguise? that doesn't really count as a human.
The fact that a shapeshifted dragon was able to swan in and just pretend to be a noble, to the point that she got to stand as an adviser in the throneroom, doesn't say much for the competence of the human aristocracy.
There's also the fact that the stormwind royals hired the mason's guild to rebuild stormwind and then never fucking paid them, so the newly-impoverished labourers became the defias brotherhood.
>he truly fits the role of the noble king that has to make all of the difficult decisions
Varian was whipped out of nowhere, we got told how cool and badass he was in a comic that literally recycled Thrall's backstory of being a gladiator slave, used the same "oh i was split into good and edgy halves" plot device I used when I was thirteen fucking years old in my sonic/pokemon fanfiction, then we got to see him scowl and try to look like a cheap anime antihero but do all of jack shit, then suddenly he's a flawless generous noble leader doing all the right things.
I don't like him.
>>45348210
>because hes an orc, he believe peace is an option but hes still an orc
I think >>45348105 is referring less to Thrall liking peace and more to the fact that Thrall was, himself, enslaved as a gladiator by humans and treated like shit for most of his childhood and adolescence.
>>45348227
I never said he was doing all the right things, he is just making all of the difficult choices. and he makes a much better king than cuckduin would. the re-hashed thrall story is kind of lame tho
>>45348210
>>45348256
This. The guy abolished CLANS because of his ideals of a better Horde. He took in Trolls and Tauren and Ogres and put them on the same level. You'd think the one thing he'd outlaw was slavekeeping and making slaves kill each other.
>>45341575
The well of eternity had caused a permanent aura over the whole world after the first war of the ancients. Add in Ilidan creating a backup WoE, and the Quel Dorei making an artificial one in the Sunwell (also a FuckYou to the moon hippies) there's a lot of very useful supernatural radioactive demon-baiting fallout in Azeroth.
>>45348105
>>45348320
its tough being warchief. you are right tho I can't think of any good reasons he would allow that to happen.
>>45348438
question, night elves all worship Elune (which fyi is 1 letter short of Selune, the DnD goddess of the moon, GJ Blizzard) do blood elves worship a sun god? or did they just say fuck you Elune after the sundering? all elves used to highborne correct?
>>45343993
Wrapping it all up then:
>arcane magic is inherently addictive.
>elves are a strain of mutated trolls, and due to having been mutated by the well of eternity they do have a particular vulnerability to the arcane magic. Still highly mutable given that night elves, nagas, high elves and bloodelves all have a "common ancestor".
>possibly, you also develop addiction to arcane magic over centuries of using it, and that's why humans just use it all the time but brush it off like it's nothing. They don't have time to develop the addiction because they naturally die sooner. Also, draenei live longer than anyone but they don't use arcane magic because they would become red skinned eredars or brokens/lost ones.
>night elves abstained from using arcane magic, preferring divine and nature magic, and so they are not addicted to it. They still can percieve arcane magic being used, being still creatures somewhat attuned to it.
>highborne among the night elves used arcane magic all the time, becoming addicted to it. After the war of the ancients, the ones still alive and not turned into nagas become high elves, and try to placate their addiction through the Sunwell in Quel'Thalas.
>magic is all over the world due to being related to the ley lines, but Quel'Thalas is saturated by it, making high elves desensitized to "background radiation", and making this normal flow of magic just not enough for their addiction.
>after the sunwell is destroyed, Kael'Thas trades arcane magic with fel magic to keep the now-Blood-Elves from withdrawal symptoms.
>now blood elves are free from the fel energies, and feeding their addiction on the light of the Naaru or something?
Is this fixed yet?
>>45348313
What would be good for anduin would be for him to have some sort of story with Bolvar, he seems to be coming back in Legion. Anduin is basically the same sort of ideal good guy as the other big Light-wielders, Velen and Uther and Tyrion and so on, but their advantage on him is that they're all old dudes who have seen a lot of shit, so their faith in goodness and the light comes off as impressive rather than, as in anduin's case, annoying.
Anduin still seems like he's spoiled, really. He's only ever seen scraps of action from behind someone protecting him (a player character, for example) and his big solo adventure was in pandaria, where he was still constantly running into nice people who were looking after him.
Fighting the occasional monster doesn't count, either, Anduin needs to go through some real fucked-up shit, something that he can actually demonstrate being actually tough or brave against. Then we can respect him.
>>45348063
> Warcraft
> means the only good story you have is someone dies.
And this is why WoW's writing now is shit, because the writing department is filled with retards like you.
>>45348227
These black dragons have very powerful spells that other dragons have difficulty going through them, let alone a bunch of mortal human noble with no magic power.
Korialstrasz burned his eye just for trying to divine through deathwing's disguise.
>>45348501
>>now blood elves are free from the fel energies, and feeding their addiction on the light of the Naaru or something?
the Sunwell was reignited at the end of BC
>>45348105
>>45348451
To be fair, it's also retarded that he would let warlocks practice their foul magics right under their feet.
>>45348487
High elves worship holy light like Humans and Dwarves.
High elves were once Highborne, Current Nightelves mostly weren't.
>>45348487
Nope. It's because Elune is the only actual Goddess in the entire game.
There are no other Deities.
This is canon.
>>45348487
>(which fyi is 1 letter short of Selune, the DnD goddess of the moon, GJ Blizzard)
selene is Greek for moon
>>45348508
Correction, Korialstrasz lost 2 finger, not eye.
>>45347719
You have it backwards, Varian was written to be less warmongering because the writers were shilling him and they had noticed that fans didn't like him, but then they realised that if he wasn't warmongering, the entire alliance side would be peaceful, so they ruined Jaina's character to make her warmongering instead so everyone would like Varian instead of her. Because doing that always works
I do not know what happened to the writing team around Cataclysm, but every decision made by them since then has been monumentally stupid
>>45348653
>but every decision made by them since then has been monumentally stupid
Well, they did give Taran Zhu one seriously sick burn on Garrosh.
I also liked when Wrathion got lectured about how the Horde and Alliance conflict was ultimately beneficial because without it no-one would have bothered becoming strong enough to defeat threats like the Lich King or the Legion.
... even though that wouldn't actually make sense if Azeroth's various militaries didn't have limitless respawning numbers and resources. There really shouldn't be an able-bodied adult orc or human left by now.
>>45348505
such as watching an important character die before his eyes, while hes helpless to save them? maybe someone like ohhh i dunno, Jaina?Varian dying and him having to become king would also be acceptable.
>>45348508
>NO ONE CAN DIE IN A WAR THEMED STORY THATS FULL OF DEATH AND WAR, ESPECIALLY NOT CHARACTERS THAT I'VE GROWN EMOTIONALLY ATTACHED TO
thats you, thats what you sound like.
>>45348608
well they had to get the original idea from some where
>>45348602
so the only god in the game is the goddess of the moon? or is she just the goddess of everything?
>>45348865
are you done with the strawman or you have a real argument?
Oh wait you don't, that's why you have to keep doing this.
WoW writing is shit now is exactly because idiots like you on the writing team think just kill off some important character will make the story good.
Learn something about writing before talking, retard.
>>45348865
Dude Selene, Elune, Luna and variations are the go to names for moon goddess cause guess what they are all variations of the word moon.
>>45348602
>There are no other Deities.
The Eternals, Celestials, Titans, and Old Gods are all basically deities. The only difference to Elune is that she's more actively worshiped like a deity, and that she doesn't go physically walking around on Azeroth like all the others do/did.
Actually, Elune is about on the same level of the tauren Earthmother. Both have races who worship her, invoke her name for things, and attribute their divine powers to her, and neither actively participate in the world or have been known to actually do anything outside the most distant mythology of the past.
If WoW was actually competently written I think it'd be cool if the Earthmother turned out to be, like, an Old God who was benevolent. Like, the Titans are supposed to be good guys overall but we know they can be huge assholes, so why not let there be a reverse where there's one or two old gods who aren't too bad?
It'd never happen though. Can't deplete the supply of potential raid bosses.
>>45348865
>such as watching an important character die before his eyes, while hes helpless to save them?
Nah man, not good enough. He'd have to be, like, literally responsible for their death himself in some way. Something that could potentially shake his faith, so he can demonstrate he's actually got real guts by keeping it up. If someone just died in front of him that he couldn't save he'd just regret it, it wouldn't really bother him long-term.
>>45348936
all of your responses have been the exact same, you haven't provided and undeniable facts as to why it would be a bad thing if jaina died. the only conclusion that I can come to is that you have 50 posters of her on your bedroom wall and would lose sleep over her death.
>>45349030
Those are classified as Demi-gods by Blizzard
Elune is the only one said to be a True God.
>>45349081
what if it was some really sadistic shit like, someone was held hostage and he was told they would be executed if he was unable to complete a certain task, or win a fight against a strong opponent. he gets his shit kicked in and the person dies because hes too weak to protect them?
>>45349090
I never said anything about its a bad thing for Jaina to die, which is why I said you are strawmening
I said just killing Jaina won't make a great story, which you had no respond to from the start, thus I call you out as a retard.
You are bad at writing and worse at reading.
>>45349154
shes not real dude, and even if she was I would have sex with her instead of you.
>>45349246
and now you are resorting to petty insult to try to anger me instead of rebulk your point, thus proving you are nothing but a childish troll.
Look in the mirror and see how pathetic you are, it will help you with your life choices, really.
>>45349107
They've also tried to imply she could be a naaru, and her "only true god" status wouldn't hold up if that's true. Though it makes me think of a naaru trying to have sex with Malorne, and that amuses me. Even if not, though, Cenarius is a demi-god, if Eternals are demigods as well then Malorne is too, so like... Elune had sex with a demigod and made another demigod? What's the distinction between a demigod and a "true" god supposed to be? What makes Elune different from all the others?
And in tauren mythology, Elune was made by the Earthmother, she's one of her eyes, which would make the sun also a god. The tauren myths might be wrong but who are we kidding it's a fantasy game, myths are ALWAYS true.
>>45349309
id fuck her right in the pussy and then send you snap chats
>>45349030
Wait wait wait, didn't Elune FOR SOME REASON just randomly decide to send a scythe to Azeroth that spawned the curse of the Worgen and the Dark Riders?
>>45349339
that sounds exactly like greek mythology, the earth mother must be Gaia, which would make Elune Zeus. they even have titans ffs lol, I can see it all so clearly now.
>>45349387
So now you are delusional enough to think you can fuck a fictional character?
Seriously, how pathetic are you?
Also there are plenty of high quality 3d Jaina NSFW materials already, I doubt you can top their work.
>>45349451
Not exactly.
An Night elf warrior priest requested her aid to fight the demons and she sent the scythe to her so she can use its power and worgens to drive demons back.
She failed to control it and Worgen went rampart and things went south after that.
Curse of The Worgen is a completely different thing, the scythe merely open the gateway that bring worgens back to Azeroth.
>>45349451
The Scythe did appear in front of a night elf sentinel who was praying for aid from Elune, and she assumed it was from her. Elune didn't make an actual appearance, though.
>>45349504
I legitimately don't know what to say to you anymore. You are what me and my friends would refer to as "A dark lord of unfathomable power"
>>45349594
Night Elf priest waited, the wisps above her blinked and sparked out of the air. There were demons in the woods. She didn't see them but had expected them now for years. Her warnings to Cernal Cenarius were not listenend to and now it was too late. Far too late for now anyway.
Priest was sentinal for 14 years. When she was young she had watched the mages and she said to dad, "I want to be the mages daddy."
Dad said "NO! you will BE KILL BY DEMONS"
>>45349759
But she was killed by dynamites and mine collapsing.
Demon were not very good with their job, after all.
>>45349922
losing your child as an elf must be the worst. you have to live for thousands of years with that shit over your head.
>>45349922
And then elf was a zombie.
>>45350092
Plus you know, with elf fertility being what it is, that's like a once in a lifetime thing.
>>45342757
Only the Zandalari who followed Zul.
King Rastakhan sat on his hands while Zandalar began to sink beneath the waves, and Zul claimed he was prophet that would unite the troll tribes into a glorious new empire once again. Rastakhan, again, did nothing- and most believed it was a sign of ineptitude or lack of the Loa's blessings, despite Rastakhan basically being the trolls' version of the Immortal God-Emperor. Zul left with most of Zandalar's population while Rastakhan remained on his throne, seemingly confident that the Loa would deliver his people from the Cataclysm. Either that, or he was frozen with inaction.
Some think that Zandalar is now like pic related, that the Loa told Rastakhan that allowing his kingdom to slip into the sea was the proper course and that Zul lacked any real faith in the Loa, instead doing the logical and trying to find land elsewhere.
>>45349451
The Scythe of Elune was created by a night elven priestess, who combined a holy staff with the Fang of Goldrinn, the ferocious Wolf Ancient, in an attempt to marry Elune's boundless serenity with Goldrinn's endless ferocity. It's the reason that the druids under its sway transformed into worgen rather than worgs, and it worked for a time- but Goldrinn's presence slowly overtook them, and it wouldn't be until thousands of years later that further rituals would be created to soothe the bestial spirit within them.
>>45349339
Velen believes that she is a naaru, but the concept of a benevolent, holy power that does not ultimately stem from the naaru is foreign to him. The lore devs have stated she is the only confirmed "true deity" of the Warcraft universe thus far, and is neither a naaru nor a Titan. Granted, they could retcon that any moment.
>>45350752
Yeah I don't buy that explanation.
Also I'm an oldfag Warcraft lore nut who still believes the Naaru are just weird light-infused space aliens and not the actual source of the power. A'dal basically being a god is retarded.
>>45350791
blizzard lore had gone to shit extremely fast
>>45350791
Naaru are basically Light elementals. A'dal is to the Light what Ragnaros was to fire. They're not the source of the Light by any means, and the draenei make that abundantly clear that the naaru are not messengers/angels/what-have-you, but paragons that exemplify the purity of the Light.
>>45350435
>Atlantis!Zandalar
Sounds pretty cool actually.
>>45350791
I always assumed they were made of/served/fed off/really really really liked the Light.
>>45350961
That doesn't change the fact they're essentially treated as deities. I was willing to swallow a lot of BC's lore rape because it was implemented in interesting ways, like the captive Naaru underneath Farstrider Square. It made the Blood Elf paladins *really* interesting to me as well as the whole lore behind their race. Then they were forgiven by A'dal after essentially crucifying a Naaru because apparently the Naaru they captured knew if it's fate beforehand and willingly accepted it.
And now the Blood Elves are all suffering from magical addiction but it's entirely self-inflicted because the game outright tells you when you make a Blood Elf character "oh if only they would worship the Light then it would free them from their magical addiction but they're too proud to accept that yet."
Fuck you, Blizzard. You took awesome concepts and replaced them with The Gospel According to A'dal.
>>45351085
I'm hoping that at some point, it turns out that all naaru started off as void creatures.
Like, we all know naaru who are damaged enough turn into a soul-sucking void monstrosity, and they eat souls to heal, and the sacrifice of a really super-light-powered soul (like Velen) can heal one all the way back to it's light form as well. And there's a super-voidwalker boss in the shadowmoon orcs dungeon that's there eating souls, and when you engage it in its fight it tells you that eating your souls will "fuel it's ascent" from the darkness.
So, naaru are good, but they don't CHOOSE to be good. When they're in one life-stage they're evil and when they're in another they're good, because that's just how their weird magical energy being biology works.
It would fit with the weird space theme that was set up for the twisting nether, back in TBC. Voidwalkers are themed like black holes, and naaru are the theoretical "white holes" that exist at the other end. It also fits the idea of them being the Wacraft version of angels, because one of the key things about angels is that they don't have free will: they're good, but that's because they've been made to be that way, not by their own volition.
I also wonder if Naaru could be related to the old gods, since they're both linked to priests, have powers over flesh and blood, and are telepathic.
>>45351333
See, I liked the old priest lore. They didn't have magic per se, they were just ordinary humans, but by sheer will and conviction they were able to make miracles happen. A priest believed so fully that the Light would protect or heal them that their spirit actually manifested a miracle. Now it's just given to them by Space Jesus. And as I mentioned before, the analogue of the Blood Elves and original sin just sends me into maximum oversperg.
>>45341575
Wasn't arcane magic described in the whole blue dragonflight/nexus arc in the Lich king expansions as ley lines established by the ancient titans being manipulated and abused by the mortal races?
>>45351418
Another guy who obviously didn't read the lore at all and just believed some random dude on the internet says.
Priest and Paladin's power still work exact the same as before
Naaru are just embodiment of light, an example of what light is, they don't grant anybody the power of light nor are they the source of light.
Crazy psychos like scarlet crusade and dead guy still cast light abilities with sheer belief , having no connection to Naaru whatsoever.
Its always hilarious to see idiots who have no idea what they are talking about complain about the lore.
>>45348501
>possibly, you also develop addiction to arcane magic over centuries of using it, and that's why humans just use it all the time but brush it off like it's nothing. They don't have time to develop the addiction because they naturally die sooner.
urrd... didn't Valeera stil addict to magic and still very young ?
>>45351699
There was a period during BC where every comically elongated eyebrow waggled in the direction that the Light flows from the Naaru and did all long, and that it had some connection to the other elements through the lore of the Draenei shamen. Whether that was backpedaled on or simply never followed through with I don't know.
>>45349030
Pretty sure I read somewhere that the Earthmother is just the Tauren interpretation of Elune.
>>45351754
I guess you can go with the main theory, that is "elves are more prone to arcane magic addiction", that is Valeera being an elf gets to be addicted very young.
Other interesting points can be
>Are high elves/blood elves children BORN with the addiction or they just develop it with use really early on?
>Will a high/blood elf newborn be spared from the addiction if raised in a magic free environment?
>How much do they need to use magic to get addicted? Is just one spell sufficient?
>>45352149
Elune is the Tauren equivalent of Mu'sha, one of the Eyes of the Earthmother, alongside An'she, the sun
because of the influence of night elven culture on Tauren society, reverence of An'she was mostly ignored in favour of Mu'sha or the Earthmother as a whole, until Cataclysm when Sunwalkers and Tauren priests worshipping An'she (as a stand in for the Light because dude syncretism lmao) became a thing
>>45352197
I think elven children are born addicted, after all, their mothers are bathed in arcane magic their whole lives, so it only makes sense that their mothers dependency is passed on
