Pathfinder General /pfg/
Underwater campaign edition
Unified /pfg/ link repository: http://pastebin.com/53QiHfcU
Vote in the /pfg/ community consensus for tiers:
https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/WS3DZFK
You can edit your votes if you make a mistake, e.g., if you forgot to vote for Soulknife (Free Gifted Blade), you can go back and vote for it.
Old thread: >>45281401
Rabbit people race where?
Soarfrog-only campaign y/n
Repeating my question for the new thread.
Question for dreamscarred press with the ectoplasmic artist play test.
How does their burn mechanic, sculptor of the soul, interact with the kinetic healer utility talent?
>>45284036
Reposting Chimera Soul for your perusing pleasure:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gRqP7ddL2KLerQGjZWEDrJSeUPfamtm3A3S5ZeQfmxk/edit?usp=sharing
Who is best shark monster
I like this guy
I have a question about the Monk of Many Styles.
It says you can choose a bonus style feat that you don't have to meet the prereqs for.
Does that mean you can take a style feat midway through a style?
Like jump to Pummeling Bully without taking Pummeling Style, for example?
Xth for Arcanists did nothing wrong!
>>45284041
Ehhh. I don't really like level 1 starts, and I don't think adding mythic to the mix would make them any more interesting.
>>45284107
I have a question about the Umbral Blade prestige class for a friend of mine.
He was wondering if the free action discharge as a part of a martial strike interacted with the damage at all. It looked like the bonus damage only applied on the turn it was charged, is the discharge just to allow it to be charged again next move action?
>>45284036
>https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/WS3DZFK
Some jerk put Tier 6 votes for a bunch of Tier 1 classes.
>>45284133
Unfortunately not, they nerfed it by stating that the 2nd and 3rd feats in a Style chain aren't marked as [Style] feats, so you can't immediately skip ahead.
>>45284185
I don't understand the question. To which ability in the umbral blade prestige class are you referring?
>>45284252
Oh, sorry, the blade of the night ability.
New to Pathfinder.
Why does the repeating crossbow require a proficiency? Isn't it just like, the same thing in pump action form?
>>45284107
Related to:
>Many Maneuvers of the Chimera Soul Discipline specify a specific type of Natural Attack. If your form currently does not have this natural attack, you temporarily gain the attack for purposes of initiating this maneuver, but it only does your Strength Modifier in damage, plus any bonus from the maneuver.
Shouldn't you mention that it's only the natural weapon damage meant to be zero? As written, damage bonuses from items, feats or stances wouldn't apply.
>>45284077
If there was a rabbit race you could make StarFox, with a Kitsune Fox McCloud, Tengu Falco Lombardi, Grippli Slippy Toad, and RabbitRace Peppy Hare
Quickie question:
What bloodline works best with Illusion?
>>45284118
I like Jetsams
>>45284190
So you can't even use the bonus feats to take those even in order?
Poor monks.
>>45284292
You'd think so, I assume it's mostly for balance reasons. The benefit of a crossbow is its simplicity and relative power. As a result, pf made it slow as hell, the work-around version of that had to be made difficult to use.
>>45284322
>Neopets
Memories are flooding back to me. They are not good ones.
>>45284292
Because it's better than a regular crossbow and thus a price must be paid to use it.
Some card is voting in reverse of what the tiers actually are.
>>45284185
>>45284266
The bonus damage is applied on the turn in which the Blade of the Night is discharged.
>>45284313
It's effectively a 0dX weapon.
>>45284292
It's for balance. I DM a group with a Gnome Sorcerer with that "Automatically proficient with everything you build yourself" racial trait, and he has a repeating Xbow that makes him as reliable at consistent damage as our Ranger.
>When you initiate this boost, you gain a +4 natural armor bonus, the scent special ability and increase your size by one size category for 1 minute.
As written, wouldn't that natural armor bonus not stack with existing natural armor bonuses? I can never remember how the rules for that works.
>>45284360
Your pets are starving to death and they miss you.
>>45284365
But not like an actual money price that would make sense, just a made-up price for no real reason.
>>45284292
Because "balance".
Mind you, I don't mean actual mechanical balance, but rather the kind of "balance" that gets grognards angry when a martial character gets a couple more points of damage despite how irrelevant that is compared to characters that can do more than just deal damage.
>>45284390
It would not stack with existing natural armor bonuses, but it would stack with enhancement bonuses to natural armor, so it'd still work with amulets of natural armor, for example. I understand your confusion.
>>45284388
On every attack during that turn,?
It was the wording was 'activated' and I wasn't sure if 'activated' qualified as 'charged' or 'released'
>>45284397
Gold costs are essentially meaningless after level 1 for mundane equipment, while the superiority of the repeating crossbow would be maintained across all levels. Throwing a feat tax on it keeps that disparity in check.
>>45284453
>This hungry and chilling darkness inflicts cold damage, and Blade of Night's bonus cold damage is added to each attack that the character makes during the round it is activated on.
>>45284292
To remind you that crossbows are garbage and you should be using a composite longbow.
>>45284393
I can never go back there. Too many cringe-inducing roleplays on the forums. Too many hours wasted playing minigames for Neopoints to buy things that don't do anything in a game that isn't really a game.
Even Pathfinder gives me more reason to stay.
>>45284492
Right, right.
Thank you, glad to have you guys so accessible for us dimwits.
>>45284433
Oh right. But for someone that has natural armor as a race trait (Nagaji have a +1 nat armor for instance) they'd effectively have that replaced by the +4?
Also,
>Wide Swipe
>Chimera Soul (Counter)
>You whirl about, striking at everyone near you with your vicious claws. Make a claw attack that deals damage as normal plus an additional 2d6 points of damage against each creature in your melee range. You only roll for your attack and damage once, applying both numbers to each enemy within range.
Why is this a counter?
Quick Question for the Dreamscarred Crew:
Can Strikes be used with Called Shots?
>>45284292
Because, just like everything else Paizo does, fuck you. No, really, fuck you. Specifically. Right in your puckered asshole, with a red-hot poker. You wanted to play a martial and do anything but a longbow? FUCK you, you're playing overpowered shit!
This is pretty much exactly what Paizo thinks. Ignore them, houserule it, be happy.
>>45284483
A) Accept that's the way the world works, and the better mechanical additions to existing technology render pre-existing weaponry useless.
B) Add a caveat that makes it much more expensive, like a firearm, or
C) hard to come by, as it wasn't exactly accessible in our western-europe surrogate.
>>45284540
The same reason MC has very similar counters
To the anon I was arguing with earlier - you have my apologies. I could and should have been more professional.
I can explain myself further when I'm not phone posting from work, if you'd still like to talk.
>>45284613
>Applying real world logic to literally anything Paizo puts in their game
What's the best build that centers around using Swallow Whole?
>>45284647
Mithral Current? Which ones? Most Mithral Current counters seem pretty logically placed as counters to me.
>>45284036
what's the best class for an aquatic campaign?
>>45284169
To elaborate on this, I think it's an interesting idea, but not one that would translate well into play.
>>45284727
Summoner or Synth Summoner
>>45284727
Pornomancer 10/Drug Mule 10 Boa Constrictor
>>45284047
>Question for dreamscarred press with the ectoplasmic artist.
>How does their burn mechanic, sculptor of the soul, interact with the kinetic healer utility talent?
It... Well, doesn't. I'm gonna be honest, it completely didn't occur to me to handle that interaction. After discussing it with the rest of the team, I've sorryfully added verbiage blacklisting them from the cost reduction from the ability.
>>45284755
Druid (for dat sweet Undine Adept archetype)
>>45284755
Aegis.
>>45284755
Synthesist summoner
>>45284133
I don't think so. You use to be able to, but if I recall they nerfed MoMS a good while ago. I don't remember exactly what the mechanical reason is, but you can't grab the 3rd feat without the 2nd or the 2nd without the first anymore. It's a shame, but not impossible to work with at least.I would fuck all of those monks, together or separately.
>>45284540
Because Google docs has been derping on me all day long and not saving my edits like a good little program. I'll do a run through of the discipline when I get home to find out what else didn't properly save and fix it.
>>45284325
>>45283984
Thank you very much gentlemen. I doubt my project will ever reach publication until at least the next year, but its good to have such quick advice.
I'd hate to bother you more, but may I ask if you'd like a look at my project? I'm still in the middle of actually writing the rules, but I'd really appreciate some feedback on the fruits of my turbo-autism.
>>45284943
Sure, I'd love to see new material made; give some new life with fresh blood. Post it Anon!
>>45284943
BTW, on the layout thing, I would totally recommend LaTeX (which can do a lot of neat layout stuff automatically if you can wrap your brain around its template language), or Pandoc (which uses plain Markdown text files and can process them through LaTeX or other templates).
Either way, it basically separates the layout from the text, so all you're directly editing is headers and source text, and it makes automating stuff like table of contents, footnotes, etc way easier.
>>45284133
Don't those feats all say "while using [x style]" in their descriptions anyway? You couldn't USE one of those without having the initial style feat anyway.
>>45284958
Alrighty
Content Warning: ContainsSpheres of Powerand dangerous levels ofPure Autism
>inb4 why not a google doc
I don't always have reliable internet, especially at home, so this has been the safer option
After our npc bard got compulsed into inspiring greatness in our enemies, I got an idea of some kind of bard who instead of singing to buff his allies, sings to debilitate his foes. I've never homebrewed anything before so it probably has some flaws, so before I show it to my actual group I wanted to toss it up here see if anyone had any tips.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fS086kQrbh5RU-kqKSxTDGQadHKISeWOHt32Toohc94/edit?usp=sharing
>>45285073
This is too much tism. You're failing to see the purpose of a lot of items and archetypes, hell even classes, fucking 10 bab clerics, droods and oracles. You're better off, god damn me for saying it, but making the wizard stronger, or reducing the versatility that the oracle, cleric and druid bloodlines/domains grant them.
Staves are intended to make lackluster scaling on sphere casting less meh, perhaps it you limited max caster level to character level+1/4 or 5 levels that would make the staff less overwhelming. I'm not even 10 pages in and these scream more house rules from a butt hurt autist than they do actual content.
>>45285073
SoP specifically might not be something you'll be able to publish material to sell for, but admittedly I'm not entirely sure how all that OGL stuff works.
I want my ditzy barbarian earth breaker wielding girl lvl4 to take dragon totem, so i can spread my wings and fly at lvl 10.
We are in a low-magic setting, but i expect a lot of fire magic, so i want a brass color.
Is all this ok?
>>45285073
>Sphere Magus (The following has been made with ideas inspired/used by Robert Kasalý of the Paizo Forums, the writer of this document claims no creative ownership of the ideas in this remake):
Why is that there? That's not how copyright works - if you're not copy-pasting anything, just rewriting it yourself, you don't need to (and shouldn't) put a clause like that. At most you should have a "thanks to" note on a dedication page.
>>45285294
Uh... if something is OGL, anyone can make stuff for it as long as they're following the Product Identity rules for it. For SoP, the PI is "trademarks, registered trademarks, proper names (characters, place names, new deities, etc.), dialogue, plots, story elements, locations, characters, original artwork, and trade dress".
>>45285337
More natural attacks never hurt, and wings when you could otherwise not get them are completely fine. I prefer greatsword, but nothing screams more barbarian than large axes and maces.
>>45285337
Ask your DM, not us.
New GM here. Tips for making exciting encounters at low level?
>>45285451
Dire animals that shouldn't be dire.
Monster races that don't conform to the monster race stereotype.
Clockwork roach swarm.
>>45284077
Same day we get Deer-people.
>>45285415
He says it's ok, but i know can i be of greater help to my team with dragon totem or beast totem. But i oh so like dragon totem, it so, like, ohmagad fabulous XD
>>45285451
Make the things that happen have a lot of collateral damage that ultimately doesn't make things more difficult or dangerous for your players.
What's the best way to play a bodyguard type of character with initiators? A warder focusing on Iron Tortoise and Eternal Guardian?
>>45285337
Depends on how little clothing she's wearing, but generally barbarian girls are fine. Going for ditzy instead of amazonian is kind of novel too, just don't play it in an annoying way.
>>45284943
>tfw you will never EVER be good at embroidery
>>45285278
The reason why I dropped the clerics, druids, and oracles, is because I want the hunters, warpriests, and shamans to actually have a reason to exist, rather than just being redundant in comparison to their castier brothers. Plus, ever since 3.5 I never cared for the idea of clerics being so bashy, with the only reason being inspiration from the Bishop of Ordo
Good point on the staves though. I think I should make that change.
For your other complaints, could you perhaps give me some more examples of problem areas? I desperately need someone to point out parts where I've been stupid
Oh, and as for the 'tism, its mostly the result of having pent up energy from games getting canceled, hours spent on /pfg/, and also pic related
>>45285377
>Why is that there?
Its a holdover from back when this was just a homebrew doc, not a potential publication, and I wanted to give credit where it was due. Though your right, I should remove it.
So far, this is some very helpful feedback. thanks guys, this helps a ton.
>>45285550
Yeah pretty much. Possibly with Mithral Current as well, since it has s lot of very good counters.
>>45285550
Sworn Protector is literally a bodyguard, but otherwise a normal warder will do the job very well, as will a Zealot with the right maneuvers.
Can I use the stance scarlet einhander with a greatsword?
If I use the free action to put/remove my offhand to/from the weapon, can I keep being in the stance or do I have to use a swift actio to activate it again?
>>45285073
You need to work on that document layout. Its not really in a very readable format at the moment - too much margin, poor font choice, makes it very unappealing to tackle.
It won't get it into a publishable state, but I'd really suggest transferring to a google doc (or something similar) just for presenting it. That doesn't have to be where you do your work on it, but something like the DSP playtests is much more approachable.
>>45285586
Not him, but I honestly don't get why you're going so hard into changing things that don't need to be changed and are unrelated to vancian casting. Why does the witch's Fly hex need changing, for instance?
>>45285640
That's retarded
The list of races I made with /pfg/ in the OP is outdated, with some of them having been updated since, and there are 4 from like a month ago that aren't there. Here's a just-updated list:
http://pastebin.com/vhf70pWU
>>45284564
Posting again.
How do Maneuvers interact with Called Shots?
>>45285640
Which decision do you think would be actually reasonable to any DM who ever lived? Think long and hard.
>>45285720
>A called shot is a single attack made as a full-round action, and thus can’t be combined with a charge, feats like Vital Strike, or multiple attacks with a full-attack action.
They don't.
>>45285738
I always think long and hard, because I'mlewd.
>>45285613
Do I get the damage dice of a spike attack from say totemist, abberant or whatever else if I were to use volley of the manticore?
>>45285738
>Which decision do you think would be actually reasonable to any DM who ever lived? Think long and hard.
Honestly?
Considering that it's part of a discipline meant to be used with two handed weapons, I can very well see most DMs straight out allowing it without the free action shit ignoring the one hand part of the description.
Oh christ
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nvrn
>Taldor thread
>Jessica Price has an opinion on this! You better believe she does!
>>45285641
I understand. This is so far just my work document, and I was planning on chopping it up into small and more manageable documents later. Thanks for the advice though.
>>45285660
Mostly because, at the time I started this thing, I was obssessed with removing as many elements of the Vancian system, including ones that where either SLAs or referenced spells, mostly to help lessen the book keeping and reliance of looking at the old spell entries.
In hindsight, this was probably a stupid idea, especially now that I've had a little over a year on on-and-off working on it to think about it, yet I have still been unable to come to a proper decision whether to keep or leave them. After your comment though, I think I will probably go back and cut that stuff out, but I'm still a bit unsure.
>>45285831
Just let it die, friend.
What Jessica says will never be undone, she is the Word of God in Pathfinder and going against that is like... Well, going against the Word of God.
>>45285810
No, volley of the manticore lists the damage of its spike attacks. It does only that damage specifically.
>>45285660
Seconded.
>>45285641
Seconded. Here's an example of some of the text quickly run through one of my own layout templates, for example. If I was making a more fine-tuned version, I'd probably put it at one archetype per page, because that makes it more convenient for printing/referencing.
>>45285858
Feature creep is shitty, whether it's in apps, Skyrim mods, or Pathfinder supplements. If you're going to make a book that converts spellcasting to spheres, do that without fucking around with everything else.
>>45285337
Sounds cute. What's her race, age, plot, and backstory?
Paizo's boards have been removing posts with 5e comparisons, are they worried or what?
>>45285831
She didn't say anything wrong, just said it way too fucking condescendingly.
>>45285858
Do recall that Vancian things do still exist in the form of rituals.
Also, a lot of this is redundant with Expanded Options anyway. You'd be better off trimming out things like 'Inquisitors get blah and count as mid casters'
Present the changes as archetypes of their own, listing only the actual changes, rather than making people pick through the entire thing to compare and find what's different.
Who's the cocksucker who voted tier 1 for most classes?
>>45285814
>Considering that it's part of a discipline meant to be used with two handed weapons
OR one-handed weapons. Both styles are equally intended for use with that discipline if you actually read it. Two-handers have enough love and plenty of damage, and one-hander style (literally what einhander means) have much less, which is WHY that stance exists at all.
>>45285831
Serious question, how the fuck does a intern have so much power?
>>45285965
Agreed.
>>45285978
And tier 6 for the full casters it seems.
>>45285921
Anyone have the forethought to screencap?
>>45285998
Intern? Who is the intern?
>>45285998
Jessica Price isn't an intern, she's one of the Big Three in Paizo with as much say on the setting as James Jacobs.
>>45286043
Crystal Frasier, In that thread she's talking on behalf of a company and dictating as a fucking assistant developer; a job you give to literal students on summer break.
>>45285998
She's one of the big three.
And more importantly has James Jacobs testicles in a tiny bag she carries around with her at all times.
Which basically means she's 2 of the Big 3.
>>45285831
It seems like Mr. Bubbles just ran in spouting dank /pfg/ memes, and promptly got shot down by the fact that most of those memes spun out of thin air. The whole Dawnflower thing has never been remotely as big a deal as some here would make out.
>>45285965
>Also, a lot of this is redundant with Expanded Options anyway.
I didn't care much for how the design of a lot of what Expanded did, hence why I have that one blurb. Plus, I've been working on this long before I got my mitts on Expanded, so I just felt reluctant to yield to thier ideas, especially since I'm not a fan of the "its all just archetypes" school of thought theyve been pushing. though that's just my garbage opinion
>>45285910
>>45285965
Thank you guys. I really needed that honesty. I guess it's back to the drawing board to carve out the pointless bloat and results of my tism. Followed by better formatting.
I guess that'll take me another year or so. Still, it's a labor of love.
Anything else about the content, other than removing the anti-vance tism, you'd like to comment or ask about? The more critique the better
>>45285831
>"We're adults! We can communicate between each other!"
>"Lol, this guy thinks something dumb and I don't know why!"
Sure you can, guys.
Honestly, AM HELLKNIGHT is again the shining beacon in this thing.
>>45286135
Anon, "assistant developer" at Paizo is only one or two steps below head developer. Job titles aren't universal, especially at "cool, hip" workplaces like modern Paizo.
>>45286135
How long has she been an assistant developer, anyway?
>>45286177
I like a lot of the more minor archetypes, like the Wild Whisperer and other Cleric/Druid/Oracle archetypes. They let things stack well when they previously didn't work very good together.
>>45286135
Frasier has been there a long time and done a lot of shit for APs iirc. I'd assume its more of a case of her special snowflake status combined with seniority.
So if I wanted to gestalt an initiating class and barbarian, could I use maneuvers during a rage (considering that they work off DEX/INT/CHA)?
>>45286250
Yes. You can also use skill check maneuvers while raging.
>>45286250
Apparently maneuvers don't require patience or concentration, so go nuts.
>>45286022
I didn't know it was happening until recently. Some of mine where taken quietly
>>45286209
Since March of last year. She interned from '09 to '14, then came back because it turns out freelancing isn't a job you can live off of.
How would I build a character similar to aninkling?
>>45285947
>She didn't say anything wrong
Yes she did, objectively, in universe and historically.
>>45286177
The biggest critique beyond formatting that I have is that so much of it is just... editing and unofficial errata. Bob's Big Book o' Bugfixes doesn't appeal.
I get wanting to change things, to make them better, but that's not really content you can sell. I think you'd get better reception from either making a spheres of power inspired system, or for making completely new content for Spheres of Power that achieved similar effects.
Also, big book o' archetypes is a bit monotone too, really. Consider some extra talents. Or an alternate weather sphere or destruction sphere. New talents. Add in some variety.
>>45286215
Thanks, that was one thing I wanted to work hard on, ensuring some archetypes could now work better together than prevously. Like how I tried my best to make some of the Magus archetypes stack better.
>Gender roles never developed in Golarion because it followed a different path than Earth
>Post-Earthfall Avistan was a post-apocalyptic hellscape of broiling seas, minimal population and utter darkness
>Avistan after the Age of Darkness was known as the Age of Anguish, so named because of the omnipresent conflict and strife with Humanity fighting everything from itself to Orcs to Rovagug.
You know... Wouldn't all this hyper-violence and population depletion lead to people realizing it might be best to structure society around who can do what best?
>>45286444
I've already reported you to tumblr Anon, better check your privilege while you can.
>>45286444
YEAH EXCEPT EVERYONE'S EXACTLY THE SAME AT DOING THINGS AS EVERYONE ELSE YOU PIG.
>>45286444
presumably there is little to no sexual dismorphism and women lay eggs.
>>45286444
Best part? The continent that developed hardcore gender roles (Tian Xia) is also the continent that suffered the least from Earthfall.
Out of interest:has anyone ever made decent use of mithral current maneuvers without quick draw/mixed combat and without using a mithral current stance?
It just seems like one of the least dippable disciplines in that regard.
>>45286350
I see, so what you're saying is this is better suited as just a series of homebrew fixes, rather than an actual 1$ book. Or do one of your suggested alternatives, which are regrettably beyond my capability.
I understand, I mean this project was originally just going to be a list of homebrew rules. The only reason why I considered publication was after I read Gareth's "Beer Money" speach here on /pfg/.
Thanks man, this really helped put things back into perspective. I guess publishing rule books just isn't for me.
I'd like to thank all of you anons for your advice, and for making me realize how much of a faggot I've been. I love you guys
>>45286444
Um, magic's a thing :/
>>45286281
>>45286304
Cool thanks a lot.
>>45286558
No it isn't, at least not for a super-majority of the populace.
>>45286558
I'd be totally content with that explanation too, if it weren't for the fact that they turn around and try to sell things as if it were a low magic setting (especially after Earthfall, I assume).
>>45286556
It's fine dude, working on a publication project's hard work. Find something you want to try and give it another shot later though! You can do it!
>>45286621
Well, I guess I can keep working on my homebrew setting, but that's super slow going since I'm a crap writer, can barely get my thoughts together, and I still haven't even finished writing the preface apocrypha or statting the races.
>>45286601
>especially after Earthfall, I assume
Isn't magic even more rarer after the death of the Aroden?
Say you wanted to run Hell's Vengeance with a party of four Disney villains. Which would you pick, /pfg/? How would you fit them into the setting?inb4 someone picks all the animal villains and wants an awakened animal party
>>45286444
So... mageocracy?
So why is Dreamscarred press okay with the massive trove of pirated material?
Is it because it's already free on pfsrd.
You would think paizo or dsp would shut down the trove
>>45286728
No one serves Cheliax like Gaston!
>>45286716
No? I mean, a bunch of clerics lost their powers, sure, but Aroden had fuck all to do with magic in general. In fact, there's probably more magic in Golarion overall, as the Asmodean church are vastly more hands-on and summon up all sorts of casting-equipped devils.
>>45286728
I'm pretty sure there was a videogame about this.
>>45286751
So what would Gaston be even?
Does he push into Fighter territory, or just a Warrior?
Firearm proficiency is nothing to worry about, since the setting rules would make them martial at least.
>>45286745
>Mageocracy
Also known as Meritocracy, which is problematic.
http://readwrite.com/2014/01/24/github-meritocracy-rug
Thus evil.
>>45286747
One of DSP's bosses is part of the pirate party, so it would be really hypocritical for them to stop us
And more than that, they're cool people who are just glad more people are reading their stuff
>>45286785
I'm thinking either Trench Fighter or some kind of Ranger with Favored Enemy (Monstrous Humanoids).
>>45286728
>Frollo as Inquisitor
>Jafar as Vizir
>Izma as Alchemist
>Gaston as warlord
>>45286716
No, I mean, immediately following Earthfall is basically the time period that it most makes sense for things to be low magic, so you can't say the fix to gender issues during that time period was magic. Later on magic was rediscovered and redeveloped, so now the setting is high magic again and you can get away with saying magic solves those problems- but the Devs keep trying to convince us the setting is low magic when that doesn't make sense. It's basically that they flip-flop between treating Golarion as high magic or low magic setting, whichever is convenient for what they're trying to do/say at the moment.
I was thinking of making a Summoner that rushed Nature Soul, Animal Ally, Boon Companion, and Eldritch Heritage (Arcane). The goal is to have a full leveled animal companion + a full leveled Eidolon with a Familiar to boot (likely later turned into an improved Familiar).
I never did this kind of build before, but what are some thoughts/advice on this sort of build. Think it's viable or good at all?
>>45286747
They make more money off of goodwill gained from people pirating their stuff and liking it than they would if they pissed off everyone in question by trying and failing to stamp it out.
Piracy is going to happen. It's a fact of life in this day and age. It also helps that, as >>45286808 said, their boss was part of the Pirate political party in somewhere viking.
I'm looking through the warder class features, and I'm wondering whether is there any reason at all to use a shield? I mean they're described as defensive fighters and all, but unless I'm blind there isn't a single feature (save the iron tortoise discipline) requiring the use of shields. Am I blind, /pfg/?
>>45286819
>>45286785
Savage Technologist then. Primal Magnetism!
>>45286909
Shields are cool, and PoW characters can afford to go sword and board to load up on shield special abilities?
>>45286909
Take ZS, you can use your weapon as shield. Enjoy your Iron Tortoise.
>>45286909
You don't need to use a shield, but it does help. Especially with Iron Tortoise in play. Unless you use Zweihander Sentinel, you'll lose out on a lot of good maneuvers without a shield.
>>45286909
Only if you use Iron Tortise, yeah. And even then Zweihander Sentinel lets you pretend your weapon is a shield.
>>45286747
Is there a reason we should bother?
>>45286728
Mother Gothel, as a venerable totally-for-real-LG witch who DID NOTHING WRONG and had her artifact flower UNJUSTLY SEIZED by the Reclamation to be WASTED curing some FUCKING BITCH PALADIN who had NO CLAIM.Seriously tho Mother Gothel was in the right I'm super mad to this day
>>45286909
Nah, not really.
Warder was a good attempt at making shields viable, but it doesn't make up for how bad shields are in the first place compared to two handing.
>>45286747
>Is it because it's already free on pfsrd.
I'd say so, yes. I doubt they really support piracy, but Pathfinder wouldn't exist without the ability to freely share and expand on the work of others.
Its probably not optimal that a large portion of their playerbase doesn't actually purchase anything, but it generates interest in the game, maintains a good sized playerbase... and even if they cracked down, it probably wouldn't change the situation much.
So, freedom of information, larger playerbase, most of their content is accessible anyway. All cracking down on piracy really earns them is ire. So why bother?
>>45286785
Savage Technologist Barbarian, or a Trophy Hunter Ranger with either the Skirmisher or Trapper archetype also atop it (to remove his spellcasting).
>>45286819
I feel like if Beast was his favored enemy, he'd have done better against him.
Just going off the things he's done, I don't think he would need to be anything more than say, a 3-4th level Warrior.
I mean he's a big deal, but he's a big deal in a podunk town in the boonies.
>>45286728
Roark as a Steelfist Commando with Leadership
Rattigan as a Ratfolk Investigator
Frollo as a Cleric of Asmodeus
Clayton as a Gunsmoke Mystic
>>45286969
>One of the most horrifyingly /real/ disney villains for their portrayal of an abusive parental relationship
>In the right
anon plsIt's not like the king and queen were in the right either.Gothel is one of my favorite Disney villains. Such a great, terrifying character. Without even intimidating magic powers or anything! Just the powers of emotional abuse and willingness to murder people.
>>45286970
>it doesn't make up for how bad shields are in the first place compared to two handing
One of the few realistic aspects of pathfinder really. Sword and board only makes sense when you have shit armor IRL after all.
>>45287044
I like this one.
>>45287073
At the same time, sword and board is /amazing/ when you don't have super great armor, especially when bashing people in the face with them.
And don't get me started in 3.5 and PF bucklers...
>>45287044
Dunno Frollo seems more like an Inquisitor to me.
Rattigan has the Mastermind I assume?
I'd say Clayton is more a Desperado Warlord if anything.
>>45287067
She's one of my favorites too, for the same reason. Mother Knows Best is excellently horrifying.
I have to also give props to Dr. Facilier for mad voodoo style though. Character wise, not nearly as awesome as Gothel, but in terms of theme and style, fantastic.
>>45287115
Frollo's totes a friggin Inquisitor.
And Clayton's a Trapper Ranger.
>>45284036
At >>45285716's request, here's an updated linkbin.
http://pastebin.com/PQvignSr
http://pastebin.com/PQvignSr
http://pastebin.com/PQvignSr
http://pastebin.com/PQvignSr
http://pastebin.com/PQvignSr
Using actual bullets as the bullets, because I like bullets.
>>45286745
But anon, mages have no sense of right and wrong, what kind of a people would allow themselves to be ruled by amoral tyrants who mostly got their power either from blood or circumstance?
>>45286874
BEARS
>>45287044
>>45287098
>Clayton is working for Abrogail to garner money and support for an expedition into Mwangi
>He wants to hunt the most dangerous game: Ruthazek and his cronies, and get the giant siege engine of his
>possibly to sell back to Cheliax for a massive sum, so he can retire into the lap of luxary and security.
>>45287115
I picked Mystic because we needed the field covered.
As for Frollo, he always felt more caster than combat to me, and Hellfire works great for the Cleric connection.
>>45287210
I wish. Sadly I can only get a certain select few animal companions with the Animal Ally feat. Probably get a wolf instead of a kickass bear.
>>45287067I just look at it as a woman forced to raise a kid she didn't want, on penalty of death. She was much nicer to Rapunzel than she could've been (as evidenced by the fact that she even taught her how to speak and function as a human being), so I don't really blame her for her behavior up until the chaining-up stuff at the end of the movie.
>>45286831
>>45287044
>>45287115
>>45287152
More importantly, Frollo wouldn't worship Asmodeus. I'd honestly make him an LE Oracle, just so he could worship Iomedae while actually being empowered by Hell. The guy honestly believed he was LG all the way through the movie.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/building-and-modifying-constructs
How do you determine what CL you need to be to make the golem?
Is it just the CR for a custom golem?
>>45287217
Well there is the Immolator Archetype for Inquisitors...sadly it's for Ifrits only.
>>45287202
I am sad that I have no reaction image appropriate for my amusement here.
>>45287138
Yeah. Great song. Facilier and Gaston are also great. Gaston would not be out of place in fucking Game of Thrones or similar.
>>45287155
>thinking anyone will remember to do anything with this
Are Inflict Wounds/Negative Energy clerics viable as supporters of their comrades, or am I doomed to failure?
Can't afford wands yet.
>>45287577
Sure they are, unless your comrades are selfish pricks who take damage from negative energy.
In that case, I recommend replacing them with undead who don't complain when you infuse them with raw entropy.
>>45287577
You can still prepare cure spells if it comes down to it. But cure spells suck. Get a wand of cure light wounds or (better yet, and probably compatible with your faith) infernal healing. It costs 750 gp and your party should pool money to get one, i.e. you should be able to afford one before you all hit 2nd level.
And healing at 1st level is meaningless cuz everyone dies in one hit anyway.
>>45287577
In-combat healing isn't particularly useful anyway, so about as viable as any other cleric.
>>45287577
Nope. Inflict wound only worth it when you can put rider effect on it, like Lunar Oracle.
You could be Herald Caller who spam Negative Energy though, since you auto exclude all your summon monster from the damage. But it still worst than Positive Energy version because you will be doing pitiful damage.
>>45287639
>In that case, I recommend replacing them with undead who don't complain when you infuse them with raw entropy.
But undead tend to be less fond of the finer things in life, like wine and feasting and concubines.
>>45287663
>infernal healing
That's the plan. I guess your point about low level play is well-founded. I'm planning on loading up on wands as soon as possible.
>>45287664
Neat. What's the verdict on Variant Channeling? Disease channeling plus shatter resolve seems like a delicious combination to really make living opponents suffer.
>>45287663
> implying your GM doesn't have a sinister, time constrain plot and won't allows you to wait 1 minute for Infernal Healing.
How good is the Startoss Style line? Thinking of going a Warpriest of Yaezhing to do some big shuriken damage.
>>45287740
In fairness, I picked the deity. The Magical Negativity just followed from that decision, necessarily.
>>45287818
It's one of the best ways to do a throwing weapon build, since it adds a lot of flat damage and a bit of extra options for attacking. Still not great, unfortunately, but if you're going for a throwing build then you may as well.
>>45284036
So our group is the typical pathfinder group, been playing for a couple years now with different campaigns and dms and such
And soon I'm going to start dming again, but the medieval fantasy just doesn't appeal to me anymore.
So i ask: do any if you know a good system for MODERN fantasy that isn't too drastically different from pathfinder? Is d20 modern any good?
>>45286728
Two parties!
Party One:
Dr. Facilier: NE Shadow-Bloodline Sorcerer
Ratigan (Great Mouse Detective): LE Ratfolk Alchemist
Shan Yu (Mulan): CE Barbarian
Judge Frollo: LE Cleric (or Inquisitor) of Asmodeus
---------------------------
Party Two:
Scar: NE Druid (prefers big cat wildshapes)
Clayton (Tarzan): NE Gunslinger (Musketeer)
Yzma (Emperor's New Groove): LE Witch
Captain Hook: NE Swashbuckler
>>45287806
Leaves more booze, food, and whores for you. And at the end of the day, isn't that in everybody's best interests?
Is there any reason for bards and skalds with the appropriate proficencies not to use two handed weapons? Am I blocking some class features or spellcasting by doing so?
>>45287916
That's...a compelling argument. Plus then they wouldn't snore.
>>45287920
Nope enjoy your your power attack.
Question. To a Summoner, what would be a good Wizard/Sorcerer spell to gain through Improved Arcane Heritage (Arcane)?
>>45287937
Wait, I thought you needed at least one free hand to cast arcane spells
>>45287978
Darn it, Improved Eldritch Heritage I mean.
>>45287983
You do, but you can hold and carry a two-handed weapon with one hand, and you can remove and add hands on a two-handed weapon as a free action. So you can totally let go with one hand, cast the spell, and grab it again.
>>45287983
Only if it has a somatic component, and >>45288026 is right.
>>45287983
Shifting hands is a free action. Take hand off weapon, cast, put hand back on weapon. The limitation only matters if you have two different items to hold (heavy shields mostly).
>>45287886
No, d20 modern is pretty broken. And because it was so small in comparison to 3.5 it got no attention or errata, much less a revival in later rulesets.
The d20 system just isn't well suited to a game set in "today," for reasons I can't well articulate but I'm sure other people here can easily. (Just as a quick example--skills.)
Modern fantasy isn't the easiest to pull off well. I like Fireborn but that system has its own problems.
Hades: LE Cleric of Himself (Hades domains: Death, Artifice (Toil), Evil, Law, Water (Rivers))
Gantu: NE Merfolk Warder
King Candy: CE Cavalier with a Clockwork Mount
Ursula: CE Undine Witch
>>45288095
>Merfolk
>not Gillman
>>45288090
>Modern fantasy isn't the easiest to pull off well.
The FATE-based Dresden Files RPG was pretty fun.
>>45287978
>>45288009
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9s54
> No. Adding a spell to your list of spells known does not add it to the spell list of that class unless they are added by a class feature of that same class. For example, sorcerers add their bloodline spells to their sorcerer spell list and oracles add their mystery spells to their oracle spell list. The spell slots of a class can only be used to cast spells that appear on the spell list of that class.
Spell known != Spell list. You still can't cast stuff that isn't on your spell list.
>>45288090
'bout the only thing I'd take from it is Wealth.
>>45280642
>>45280454
You guys know that with Greater Grappler, you make every melee discipline a grappling discipline?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/greater-grapple-combat---final
Beyond that, Steel Serpent and Broken Blade both boost grappling specifically.
Pixar Villains:
Charles Muntz: CE Ranger
Syndrome: CE Alchemist (or Wizard if focusing on crafting shit)
Emperor Zerg: CE Antipaladin
Maleficient: NE Sorcereress
>>45288090
Ah, alright. Guess I'll keep looking. Thanks for the answer mate
>>45288168
Hmm, that's unfortunate.
>>45288026
Unless you wants to cast stuff off-turn.
If only there are more than 10 immediate action spell...
>>45288133
Whatever. I always get them mixed up.
Well, I was on the SRD shop and noticed that DDS published three of those Sphere Handbooks we were told about.
Anyone actually bought them? Are they as bad as we feared?
To counter the question about villains, if you were to run an AP with Disney protagonists, who would you pick and for what AP?
>>45288095
>Ursula
>CE
She tricked a princess into slavery by means of a well-worded contract and some deception, then used that slavery as a bargaining chip to blackmail a king for control of his kingdom. That's LE as fuck and any Asmodean would be proud to know her.
>>45288198
>If only there are more than 10 immediate action spell...
Yeah we really need more ways for casters to break the action economy.
>>45288135
It was. That just has the problems with FATE, as well as not a lot of clarity on how magic stuff's supposed to actually work--or, at least, there wasn't when we played it years ago.
>>45288176
Abstract wealth is easier to keep track of than liquid currency, yes.
>>45288191
Good luck. I like Shadowrun, too, but that may be a bit too much technology for you.
Fireborn is fun because you play as reincarnated dragons rediscovering your heritage in the present day! But it's a dice system not used in any other game so yeah.
Cleric, Inquisitor or Paladin for a mounted character? A Druid and Hunter is welcome to discuss too.no Cavalier allows though
>>45288284
It wasn't TOO vague; it was just strictly better than other choices (at the cost of being subject to the Setting's "restrictions and rules" relating to magical use, enforced by the Wizard Police.)
>>45288235
Uh...yeah. A bargain which she later broke and sabotaged when it looked like Ariel was going to get Eric's true-love's kiss in time. That's not LE.
If she had made the contract self-defeating, or some shit like that then yeah that's LE. But she broke her word, as opposed to pre-emptively fucking Ariel over.
>>45288168
Wait, if New Arcana 'adds' one spell to a 'list' of spells known, can't the added spell be chosen to learn, or swapped later? From what I understand the feature makes a spell 'learn-able' for later or something.
>>45288176
That's something I'd be wary of. Mostly because, while it's great in-game, it makes chargen a fucking /chore/, even moreso than having a pool of actual money to count.I may or may not have played a game where my character started with a Wealth Bonus of +46. Spreadsheets, spreadsheets everywhere.
Let's say I use the feat to adapt a weapon group to a discipline to add heavy blades to silver crane. Are there any maneuvers I can not to due to maneuver specific (as opposed to discipline specific) I can't do?
>>45288358
No. You're thinking of adding spell into "spell list". Which allows you to learn it and swapped it out later.
If the spell is in your spell known, it means you already learn it.
>>45287806
>What's the verdict on Variant Channeling?
I like it, especially with a CHA focused cleric like Evangelist Clerics. I have had a lot of fun with a LN Cleric of Dispater build I have centered around support/debuffing. I never attack and no complains because a AoE daze at level 3 and my leadership domain buff.
>>45288232
Is this even a question? Skull & Shackles with the following party:
Captain Hook - Swashbuckler
John Silver - Savage Technologist
Ursula - Merfolk Witch
Rourke - Warlord
>character dies
>player rolls up a new character
>he uses the full extent of wealth by level to get way ahead of the other party members each time
>entire party has now been abusing this by getting through the adventure, plotting where their characters will die, then rolling a new one to get insane amounts of items
How the fuck do I stop this?
>>45288358
>>45288429
Spell List = A list of spell that you class can cast. You can learn spell from this list.
Spell known = A list of spell you already learn.
>>45288483
Stop giving them WBL and send in disenchanters and rust monsters, you pathetic little shit. Reassert control and don't let the RAW cuck you.
>>45288429
>>45288490
Damn it wording is so complicated
>>45288347
She never broke the contract, she simply didn't include anything in said contract that would stop her from interfering with Ariel's contractual duties. The contract is magically binding such that even Triton can't do anything to free Ariel.
Taking advantage of naivete is Infernal Contract 101; that's the whole reason devil summoning is dangerous, because they'll worm out of any terms that aren't to their liking unless you're clever enough to close every loophole.
>>45288483
... give your PCs treasure so that someone joining with the expected WBL is a non-issue?
>>45288536
No, you're just stupid.
>>45288529
I can't help but agree with this. The intention of WBL is to try and keep everybody on the same level, NOT to fucking give the players some kind of unlimited bullshit fund.
They want to abuse shit like that, start giving them 2-3 levels below WBL, if that. If they're going to try and abuse it, don't give it to them.
>>45288553
I presume they're looting the corpses so they end up ahead of WBL, genius.
>>45284107
>Chimeric Body Stance
That's-a some spicy utility
>>45288483
1st option : Gives everyone items/money so they stay at WBL and has no incentive to die.
2nd option : Limited the wealth of new character to the average of party wealth.
3rd option : Some sort of penalty on the new character. Not recommending this.
Iron Gods
>Milo Thatch as the Wizard
>Jim Hawkins as the...Unchaned Rogue?
>Mogli as a Druid (Baloo is his companion)
>Kuzco as the Emperor
>>45288462
he said protagonists
>>45288587
I like my utility stances, what can I say?
>>45288602
>>Kuzco as the Emperor
>not awakened Llama steel fist commando
>>45288581
I see. My recommendation is to talk to the party about WBL, treasure, expectations, and your ability to DM then. If the problem is that they're "abusing" the wealth system, then it's an OoC and expectations thing, not something you can solve with in-game rules.
>>45288483
The WBL rules are intended to keep players at a given wealth level based on their level. That is, if they go under (by buying a lot of consumables, or some big fluff things, or whatever), you give more loot, if they go over, you give less loot, and if they go way over, that frees you up to use loot-destroying enemies.
So by the rules, they're way over. Start introducing money sinks. Big fluffy things that cost a lot but aren't mechanically useful. Roleplaying things: mansions, bribes, servants, whatever.
And negative attention, like thieves and saboteurs.
Also, just maybe, try talking to your players?
>>45286325
>You're a kid now
>You're a squid now
Easy and done.
>>45288641
I'm not actually the guy who asked the question. I just have some degree of reading comprehension.
>>45288612
I approve, being able to shapeshift yourself into aspects of different animals should come with utility.
>>45288641
Just makes them fight the ghosts of their old characters, since they are stealing their possession.
>>45288232
Ultimate princess team:
>Mulan, Eldritch Archer with pseudodragon familiar
>Elsa, Winter Witch
>Jasmine, summoner with tiger eidolon
>Kuzco, Chelish Diva bard
If I'm afflicted by a status condition, and I get hit by a spell/ability that makes me immune to said condition, does the affliction go away?
>>45288289
Paladin gets its own mount, so I would say its your first choice. Can also do mounted archery or lance builds well too thanks to smite and good BAB.
Cleric is worst. Doesn't even get ride skill IIRC. Focus on heavier armor and spell casting meshes badly with ride. Dont do it.
No idea about inquisitor. Focus on teamwork seems to make mounted combat unsuitable, unless you can count your mount as an ally. No natural mount options as far as I know.
Druids are not terrible but wildshape and spell casting are way stronger than anything you would want to do mounted.
I dont know hunters.
>>45288726
>>Mulan, Eldritch Archer with pseudodragon familiar
>>Jasmine, summoner with tiger eidolon
Did we watch the same films?
>>45288726
Eh, Mulan used her sword more often than projectiles. Plus she did have her cool family sword.
If her alignment wasn't so nebulous, I'd merk her as a Chosen One paladin, though a Kensei or just normal magus could work. Perhaps a Beastblade?
Is there a Pathfinder build that's roughly equivalent to the classic 3.5 paladin/sorcerer/abjurant champion with sanctified spells? I want to play a mostly magic guy with a dash of Lawful Good glowy gish to him.
