You'll niggas don't even update the OP, holy shit
Now everything is Sea Fox property
Old Thread: >>45062956
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Last news:
Interstellar Operations (final build) is out!
http://www.mediafire.com/download/4hi24un9tthh9pr/CAT35006_Interstellar_Operations_FINAL.pdf
Next e-pub is going to be Touring the Stars: Lone Star
http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/images/E-CAT35SN201-BattleTech-Touring-the-Stars-Lone-Star-220.jpg
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/btg/ does a TRO: http://builtforwar.blog(not spam) spot.com/
How do I do this Against the Bot thing?
http://pastebin.com/pE2f7TR5 (embed)
Can I get an overview of the major factions?
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/great-houses/
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/the-clans/
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/other-powers/
How do I find out what BattleMechs a faction has?
http://masterunitlist.info/
Map of /btg/ players (WIP):
https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=1116217&add=1
BattleTech Introductory Info and PDFs
http://bg.battletech.com/?page_id=400
Rookie guides
http://pastebin.com/HZvGKuGx
Sarna.net - BattleTech Wiki
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page
Megamek - computer version of BattleTech. Play with AI or other players
http://megamek.info/
SSW Mech Designer
http://www.solarisskunkwerks.com/
BattleTech IRC
#battletech on irc.rizon.net
PDF Folders
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/9q792hobnbpw3/Battletech
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/sdckg6j645z4j/Battletech
>>45098511
Reminder that the Blood Spirits were killed off in WoR as a last-minute change due to the writer's personal dislike of the fanbase.
>>45098589
reminder that the Blood Spirits were already dead in Blood Avatar, a novel released in December 2005
Sea-Foxes/Diamond Sharks
Because my IS/Periphery force having three MadCats, a Masakari, and a Shadow Cat is totally legit and canon now.
>>45098589
>writer's personal dislike of the fanbase
>>45098677
>advice neckbeard
we're off to a good start this thread
Daily reminder that Hyperspace Blakists are canon
>no one wants a faction whose entire description boils down to "terribly mysterious," "can cut guns in half with their minds," and "delivers awkward phrases."
Life is suffering.
>>45098859
>not wanting Vorlons
>>45098789
As canon as the idea the WoB's assault on the Clan homeworlds would have been successful.
>>45098882
>implying it wouldn't
>>45098878
Please, I've got Cam Clarke for that. No, I mean an entire faction of pic related.
>>45098878
I want Narn and Centauri.
>>45098932
Wrasslehogs and Dracs.
WE SPECIAL THANKS NOW
>>45098911
I cannot see it.
>>45098859
What are you even talking about?
>>45099055
Shhh, anon.
We've previously established that the WoB ignores the Clan fleets and SDS because reasons, that they have magic bioweapons, and their ground forces trash those of the Clans because BLAKE ELEISON.Seriously that's what it comes down to. They don't like the Clans at all, or they like WoB a lot more than the Clans, therefore the Clans lose, end of story. Many threads have been lost, let's keep this one from degenerating so early.
>>45099124
You're an idiot. That post is very deep.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u5x9pdInTU
>>45099124
Vorlons from Babylon 5 I guess.
They like giving very vague answers, they made other races psychic to use as tools against the other races, and their ships are absolute bullshit compared to everyone else's.
>>45098627
Reminder that the Spirits were alive and well as one third of the Triumvirate in Ben Rome's early WoR drafts.
>>45099185
Well they do have magic bioweapons but I don't see how that's all too important. They could just hit the major worlds with asteroids and wipe all life that way.
When you mention the magic bullet weapons it helps the WoB case but I don't see how they'd survive the inevitable counterattack.
>>45099055
don't push this one, they'll go medron all over you and the thread will be basically toast
>>45099275
Is Medron a Blakist too?
>>45099434
no, but their arguments are fairly similar
>>45099456
I don't think their attack would be successful but WoB definitely has more a case with an asteroid-flinging ship and magic bullet bioweapons. Sure the Clans have good science but they have little room to afford any civilian casualties. Plus the Society uprising was occurring around the same time.
>>45099268
>They could just hit the major worlds with asteroids and wipe all life that way
in theory, sure.
but introducing "rocks fall, everybody dies" into sci-fi settings is fucking dumb, and it basically ruins the setting, and it's literally an all-faction trump card, so it ain't no arguement
>>45099614
It's not a fair argument but since it's hypotheticals it's still an argument. And it was introduced anyway.
Anyhow, let's take a step back from that nonsense and post trooper and heavy cav designs
>>45099519
>Plus the Society uprising was occurring around the same time.
Technically, if the WoB is undertaking their Clan attack plans it would mean they wouldn't be undertaking the Jihad, which would likely mean the 2nd Star League is still in place. And that would mean one of the big catalysts to kick off the Reavings would be gone, and if that isn't happening the Society isn't moving yet, the Reavings forced them to come out early.
>>45099915
Fair enough, I don't remember the Society timeline.
>>45099818
can we talk about trooper and cav mechs from TRO 3075, 3085 and Prototypes? I think these TROs are heavily ignored
>>45099818
One rushed cav design.
>>45100011
I think people have talked about the 3075 stuff a bit.
The stuff after it doesn't get much play because it has to introduce DA 'Mechs that have really shitty BT stats, and/or is using Experimental/Advanced tech that not everyone plays with.
Was the Free Worlds League manufacturing any good assault dropships or carrier dropships during their warship revival period? And when did pocket warships become available?
>>45100135
What the hell dude
>>45100275
For carriers, the Union and Overlord are both supposed to have CV variants like the Leopard. Unlike the Leopard, neither have ever been statted or detailed beyond that. Everyone has some of those.
The FWL builds the Leopard-CV, Union (CV as long as you're happy to just replace all the 'Mech bays with ASFs and aren't insisting on official sheets only), and Vengeance.
For assault ships they were building the Intruder and Kuan Ti. Everyone had at least some Avengers and Achilles. The Achilles is a lot better than the others.
The first PWSes are the Nekohono'o and Overlord-A3 in TR 3067. The term wasn't specifically applied to them then, though. At the time military DropShips were either transports or Assault DropShips. The actual designation for PWS doesn't come in until JHS 3070 where it's used to describe what would formerly have been lumped in with Assault DropShips. After that the term is applied to anything that has a Capital Missile Launcher or Sub-Capital weapons.
By the time that PWSes really become a thing the FWL has fallen apart. The RotS and FedSuns have the most classes of PWSes available to them but again everyone has some by the DA.
Anyone have Handbook: House Kurita? It's not in the MF archives.
[s]Fuck me but recovering from a HDD dying is annoying.[/s]
>>45099268
There have to be people left alive to do the counterattacking
>>45099614
The thing is that it's quite possible for any faction to pull out all the stops at any time. But if the Lyrans try to go all genocidal on the FWL, for example, the FWL has enough strategic depth to survive the first attack.
Meanwhile the Clans have a tiny population comparatively, have most of their people on relatively marginal worlds, and those worlds are few in number. A dozen planetary-extinction asteroid strikes or orbital bombardments or bioweapons or whatever, and they really are truly screwed.
The WoB also has more ability to pull this off than most with its asteroid chuckers and bioweapons.
>>45100803
>The WoB also has more ability to pull this off than most with its asteroid chuckers
This is wildly overstated. The WoB needed at several months just for Erinyes Group to fit the asteroids with their engines and smash just one planet.
The Clans have 42 inhabited worlds. Unlike the Taurians, several of those have SDSes. At any one time there's at least one WarShip in-system for all of them, usually more.
The Clans may not be able to detect Erinyes Group if they jump in far enough away, but it's gonna take a long-ass time for them to be able to set up their asteroid rain. The Taurians and the other Drac planet that got hit also couldn't do anything about the incoming asteroids due to having no SDS and no WarShips. ASF cover might be enough too, a lot of those worlds have ~150 or more stationed on and around them.
Bioweapons are a real maybe. They could work but Clan bioscience is staggeringly good. They already cured a number of plagues in the Homeworlds and had done the same in their OZ.
Ultimately you can set up a storyline where the Blakists win but you need to go a long way to explain why the SDSes and WarShips are being overcome, why Clan science is suddenly stumped, and how the incredibly tiny Shadow Divisions are able to roll up a force roughly equal to the better part of 300 IS regiments.
>>45100742
Plus the Hamilcar and Merlin.
>>45100765
I am 99% sure the book is there, do you mind to look again?
>>45101043
The Hamilcar is better in a fight than most transports, but it's way more of a transport than the assault ship its TR entry proclaims it to be, especially with that 4/6 thrust. Personally I mentally class the Intruder as a poorly designed infantry transport rather than a assault ship, but at least it has the guns and armour the Hamilcar lacks.
Fair point on the Merlin though, I thought it was a combined-arms transport for some reason.
>>45100742
>assume the FedSuns or Lyrans make the Overlord-A3 probably exclusively
>look it up
>CapCon does too
Do the Capellans literally get anything they want?
>>45101092
Ah, it's hiding. I looked past it the first time since it's at the top from having a catalogue number.
Hurr durr.
>>45101163
They got heavy and assault omnimech designs because a playtester wouldn't stop whinging for them.
>>45101036
The Erinyes takes time to get everything together, sure. I'm assuming, though, that they do all of that out of system, then pop in, chuck the rocks, and pop out. Might even be able to time it such that you can have near-simultaneous impacts on a number of worlds.
Bioweapons might be neutralized by Clan science...might. There's that plague that wiped out a bunch of Ravens, for starters. I'm not really up on what the WoB had here or what the Clans can do, but if the WoB has something nasty it could very well kill most of the population before the Clan scientists can figure out what's going on, devise a cure, and deploy it in time to save most people. Especially if they're trying to deal with other things, like incoming asteroids, nukes, etc. If I were the WoB, for good measure I'd drop multiple bioweapons at the same time.
Bear in mind, I'm never going to say the WoB wins neatly. I would expect that their offensive force would be totally gutted. But AFAIK the WoB was planning to take that level of casualties to begin with. It's not going to stop them. For example, the Clanners have a world with a warship guarding it, nothing special. The WoB has a warship of their own jump in and bombard whatever it can while launching fighters and dropships with even more nukes and plenty of bioweapons to salt teh earth for whoever survives the first strike. They may all die but they will very likely totally fuck whatever world it is they're going after.
Whatever happens, it would be a really bad time for anyone left.
>>45101163
>Do the Capellans literally get anything they want?
in short? yes
>>45101163
>Do the Capellans literally get anything they want?
According to the MUL it is limited to the Suns and Lyrans, but the Lyrans lose all of theirs theirs by 3067.
The Capellans will have to make do with getting the upgraded Achilles out of nowhere (especially bullshit since it was made at one factory before then and was a bitch to deal with due to how complex its drive was and how much strain it placed on the ship), two completely new assault ships, and a WarShip that in its Carrier upgrade can handle a Thera group.
XIN SHENG XIN SHENG MOTHERFUCKERS
>>45101339
and, as a bonus, the MoC, AKA fapcon expansion pack get to magically build two PWS based on a ship that they never produced, as well as having star league dropships literally appear out of thin air.
it's like they aren't even trying to hide it
>>45101247
To be fair that kinda makes sense. Everyone else was getting the Drac Omnis.
A lot of things with the CapCon don't look *too* bad when taken in isolation. It's just that they all happened at once and when you pile them up you get absolute bullshit.
>>45101258
>The WoB has a warship of their own
A lot of their fleet wasn't active at the same time and included a lot of Destroyers. I think their largest class was the Essex. Meanwhile the Clan fleet has a shit ton of Aegis, Black Lion, and Cameron-class cruisers that can literally gut those in one turn of fire and survive whatever the Essex does in return.
The Clan WS advantage is really, really huge. Their designs are just *that* much better, and they just have so many of them.
>>45101532
>I think their largest class was the Essex
To clarify, I mean that the ship they had the most of was the Essex.
They had a couple that were bigger but not many.
I was using a Champion 1N2 in a tabletop game awhile ago. I have a question. When shooting the LBX-10 at an undamaged mech, at what TH numbers do you prefer using solid shot, and when do you use cluster?
i.e. if your solid shot TH is 8, do you take the shot with solid, or use cluster for a TH of 7?
>>45101532
>>45101036
>300 IS regiments
>warships out the ass
>magic tech
I am so fucking tired of the Clans.
>>45101621
If it doesn't have an open location I shoot solid. Only exception for me are lightly armored mechs like a spider. They get cluster unless its a 6 or lower with solid.
>>45101621
On an 8 and with my luck, I don't fire the solid slug.
On a 7 and with my luck, I'll do it if I think I have enough ammo to make it through the rest of the game.
I usually don't fire weapons with less than 15 rounds/volleys in them unless the TN is low, it's an AC-20 and I'm in close, or we're at least 5 turns into a game. IME games usually run ~20 turns if you're fighting to the death.
>>45101630
>>45101532
Everyone else had a reason. A playtester weedling until his faction gets what he thinks it should have is cancerous on the game.
are there rules anywhere for buying mechs and especially space vessels in shittier condition for less?
>>45101755
Clanner detected
>>45101875
FM: Mercs Revised has them at the back. Maybe something in StratOps or IntOps.
>>45101875
for space vessels, DS&JS allowed you to buy vessels in "needs repairs" condition for 40% of base price, and in "doesn't fly right now" condition for 20% of base
>>45098511
>you'll
>>45102042
>>45102083
shit, I wish I had saved the Steel Viper ones
Is it possible for a single thread to go by without faction bitching?No_
>>45102111
fortunately, I did
>>45102111
>>45102111
and here's the last one I have
>>45102244
>Steel Viper
>Illustration of a ProtoMech the MUL says they never had
Bondsref yourself, my man.
>>45102315
hey, I didn't make it
>>45102360
All the more reason to bondsref yourself?I kid, I kid. Besides, anything is better than that THE CAPELLANS CAN BUILD SOME 3058 DRAC OMNIS REEEEEE or NO FUN ALLOWED UNLESS IT'S BEING HAD IN MY PRE-APPROVED, 3025 ONLY, FINAL DESTINATION WAY shit.
>>45102512
ease back on that shitposting, my man
>>45102512
nah, it is you who should bondsref urself
Can you explain why in Mechwarrior 2e. When my Characteristic goes up its harder to succeed.
It's amusing that people bitching about factional posting, PURPLE BURD STRONK, eternal 3025, people wanting more warships, etc are considerably worse than the people who have some cap vs fed ribbing, talk about how warships could be more prominent, 3025 play, or whatever other thing people want to talk about.
It's like saying water should be pure and to make sure it is we're going to fill it with chlorine.
>>45102634
what
>>45102634
>who have some cap vs fed ribbing
You HAVE read these threads, right? It goes well past ribbing and into autistic rage at the drop of a hat.
>>45102661
He's mad that people are pointing out that he's shitposting and not contributing.
So in order to avoid the fuckface calling me a hipocrite, how about we get to designing some random mechs, since we haven't had a design challenge in forever?
Rolled 5, 5 = 10 (2d6)
>>45102726
Sure. I'm going to use some RE-lasers if I can.
type roll
Rolled 5, 3 = 8 (2d6)
>>45102770
Ok a BattleMech. Weight class now.
>>45102603
It shouldn't.
The linked attribute save thingy where you start for determining skill TNs is what, 18*-(Linked Attribute + Linked Attribute)?
So if you have 4 for both and start with a 10+ (18-(4+4)=10), increasing one attribute by 1 point will drop it to 9+ (18-(4+5)=9).
If your skill is 3 and your base thingy is 10, your final base TN is 7+. Increase one attribute by one and it drops to 6+.
*IIRC it was 18, any way.
>>45102726
>rolled 7,9,5,3
alrighty, is there a faction chart or anything?
Rolled 4 (1d6)
>>45102790
Heavy sounds good. What required tech shall I have? RE lasers please.
>>45102686
Haven't seen any of that for quite a while, and at its worst it was still better than the people who are so paranoid about it happening they go into crisis mode there's the slightest hint of people talking about it.
Rolled 5 (1d6)
>>45102810
Ballistic-reinforced armor? Literally never used that. Still going to try and strap a RE-laser or two on the thing.
Mixedtech?
>>45102813
I'm a Capellan fan and while yes I'm breaking silence this time usually I never bring it or the faction up because for some reason House Liao is almost as triggering to folks here as the Taurian Concordat.
>>45102861
>almost as triggering to folks here as the Taurian Concordat.
to be fair, that's mostly one guy and occasionally CA, but yeah
>>45102726
Wow, it's been forever since I held actual dice. So much of my gaming happens on-line these days.
Type: 10, 'Mech
Weight 9, Heavy
Required 6, TSEMP
Mixed Tech: 5, Yes.
FUCK YOU DICE WHY DID YOU NEVER ROLL LIKE THIS IN REAL GAMES
But here, have the Guillotine "Révolution Française."
Built for the FWLM with assistance from the Diamond Sharks, its job is to incapacitate and decapitate enemy 'Mechs.
Rolled 2, 4, 2, 4, 1, 3 = 16 (6d6)
>>45102726
Rollan
>>45104278
And this is what I came up with. And the reasoning for each bit of retardation on this thing:
>XL gyro because ABA means you won't get fucked by TACs as much, so you can save some more weight with the XL gyro
>Magshots because, again, less likely to be TACed.
>Tcomp because that's the only advantage magshots have over SRMs.
>TSM because the Tcomped Magshots make nicely accurate heat control
>ERMLs for baseline heat generation
>BC3 because this thing is a drac mech (nobody else bothers with ABA) and going to get close, so you might as well get a spotter out of it.
>45 tons because Drac TSM = Sword, and 45 tons is an optimal point for the sword relative to the hatchet. Also it had to be a medium.
And all that totals up to an absurd BV, somehow. Possible variant would be to swap the BC3 for AECM and a normal C3 slave, and/or upgrade the ERMLs to clantech models. But since both of those make the BV even worse, I avoided them.
>>45104677
Not bad, anon. In fact I think it's rather stylish.
BV comes from the speed, TSM, tcomp, and armor. All of the specialty armors are overcosted.
What does ABA armor do again?
>>45104888
-2 to the crit roll for TACs and penetrating ammo types (AP autocannons, tandem-charge SRMs, etc...). Means instead of rolling 8+/10+/12+ for 1/2/3 crits, they need 10+/12+ for 1/2 crits from those hits. Since most of the ammo types that generate free crit chances also have their own -2 to crit chances, this will generally make it so they need a 12 to get a free crit.
Not at all worth the loss of 25% of your armor per ton, or the BV increase, but it's at least somewhat useful. Far better than heat-dissipating armor, at least.
>>45104989
does it work for the random movement crits on vees?
>>45105011
No, that would make it useful. Hardened armor gives the exact same penalty to crits and gives you better protection per ton, at the cost of the -1 running MP and +1 to PSRs. For vehicles, who ignore the running MP penalty, there really is no reason to use ABA.
>>45104677
I actually agree with Mr. Checkem >>45104888, I like the style.
>>45104989
>heat-dissipating armor
If they patched ReL,s they might fix it...right?
You guys talk about having to listen to Medron in the OF threads. Try playing with Medron for /years/. Only reason I'm alive today is thanks to the intervention of a bottle of Jim Bean and half dozen crushed up Oxycotin.
>>45105264
According to Paul, who I assume is Paul Sjardin, it was deliberately designed to suck.
But then according to Paul so were RE Lasers. And look how that turned out.Honestly I think if Heat-Dissipating armour was fixed there would be a MASSIVE backlash of >muh Capellan fiat. I would be completely fine with Heat-Dissipating Armour being available to tanks and making them invulnerable to Infernos and a lot less vulnerable to Plasmas, that seems like the most sensible place to have been using it anyway.
General question: I haven't had time to go through IntOps what with getting the first game of my campaign off the ground later today; do the rules for mercenary unit creation (replacing those from FM:Mercs[r]) appear in IntOps,or did those get pushed back to a later book? I remember having some major interaction with Cray about them a couple years ago when he was drafting them, mainly pointing out stuff like "how many officers actually go into a unit" and some math issues.
>>45106685
They were pushed to Campaign Companion
>>45106685
>how many officers actually go into a unit
This has bugged me extraordinarily over the years, and the feeling returned yesterday when I was going through FM: FWL. There were still triple-hatted regimental commanders. Being the Regt OC whilst still being the OC of the 1st Bn and presumably the 1st Coy as well would be like juggling chainsaws.
I still think companies should be fourteen 'Mechs.
>>45106708
Damn. OK, I'll make a note for 2018.
>>45106779
>I still think companies should be fourteen 'Mechs.
My close comrade of Royal Canopian descent
I know EXACTLY what you mean. Armor organization definitely has some advantages. I understand that it's generally unreasonable to have expected FASA to do something like "a command section unengaged in combat can add initiative modifiers to its troops" or something from the very beginning of the game, because a) there weren't enough Mechs in the original fluff to justify somebody taking up a Mech just for CO duties, and b) they didn't realize how long the game was going to exist and how deeply people were going to analyze this stuff.
But I would have still liked for at least 1 faction to go to a 4+4+4+2 company organization, and give us some DropShips to make that actually work.
>>45106814
>4+4+4+2 company organization
I could even see four lances in a company, especially if it's a prestigious outfit like the Sorenson's Sabres or a unit known for independent operations.
Three fighting lances to get on with the fighting, plus a command lance with the OC, the 2IC and the assorted hangers-on. You might not need that Jägermech on the field, but having an AA 'Mech covering your HQ/Dropship/whatever against a decapitating air attack is good drills. Or a recce 'Mech you can't put anywhere else in the company because everyone else is riding heavies and mediums? Plop it in the HQ to stay out of the way unless the shit really hits the fan and the command lance has to actually fight instead of leading the fight.
>>45106814
Most factions have at least an independent command lance for the regimental commander. I think some even have an independent command lance for each Battalion.
A lot of mercs don't for the reasons you mention, but the only proper factions (as opposed to glorified pirate lords) that don't are the Dracs and Canopians.
>>45106926
>the Dracs and Canopians
And the FWLM, apparently. No battalion command lance or regimental command company in sight, and this is dated 3059.
>>45106951
>expecting mook factions to get the organisational advantages of the ones the writers liked
Life is pain for us, anon.
>>45106971
Well, you chose the mook faction yourself, so you've only got yourself to blame.
>>45106685
What's your campaign about, NEA-kun?
>>45106814
>>45106779
mah niggas
I wish we had more force orgs in general.
Society added 1-3-7 but it's not satisfactory
>>45106951
>4-3-3-4-3-4
REEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>45107368
Plotline is essentially "The PCs are the Homeworld Clan Watch; a multinational unit of troubleshooters who find trouble and shoot it. Watch what happens to them when the Reaving and Society bullshit breaks out."
Here's the rules packet. PCs get randomly paired off, and bid against each other to play their own force; loser of the bid plays OPFOR.
>1/2
>>45106779
>>45106814
At least with the FWL while I don't know why their regiment organization chart excludes it there are numerous mentions of the use of command lances for battalions in fluff, and iirc command companies for regiments. If that helps at all.
>>45107497
Here's the Game 1 scenario.
The player with the most VPs at the end of playtime gets to decide which track they take next. The first 3-4 scenarios are "generic" WarChest scenarios so that people can get used to the system and build up a bit of a WCP cushion.
Then the shit hits the fan and they get to start fighting binaries of Septecemias backed up by two dozen Sprites all using Manei Domini cybertech (I should probably read up on what the Society actually uses).
And, speaking of which, I have to get the car packed. BattleTech from 10am-7pm, then ice hockey at 7:30 and 9:45. Long day ahead.
>>45106951
Maybe an error on the author's part coming from that FM:DC was the only other one done yet.
>>45106814
>Armor organization definitely has some advantages.
Kinda depends on what kind of armor org we're talking though.
For instance what I'm used to from my tanker days would be 4+4+4+1. And at battalion level, just the CO and S-3 had tanks. XO's main job at both levels was normally keeping track of maintenance and shit.
However, at battalion level is where you had the HQ company, which while predominantly would be the is where your recon and IDF assets were, and they would be attached to companies or utilized independently as needs be.
So in some aspects I'd say it's not just FASA not realizing how deep people would be analyzing stuff, but them building stuff around the main level the game operates on, and that going higher than company level can get messy on the table. So we end up with companies that tend to include a bit of everything, and act in concert, rather than units built with battalion level or higher OPs in mind and getting mixed and matched as needs require.
Though building house units with high level in mind and designing merc units pretty much as the norm we're used to certainly would have added some flavor too, since mercs often only exist at about the company level so being more general purpose is more necessary.
>>45107636
Shit, that's from the Twilight of the Clans, isn't it? I only went through FM: FWL and The Dragon Roars but there was bugger all on the FWL in there, not even mentions of their battles, let alone scenario orgs.
>>45107732
I've generally run company level orgs with the first lance being the command lance. Like so:
>1st Lance: Coy OC, his wingmate, Coy 2IC, his wingmate or a specialist mech like a big missile boat or a recce unit
>2nd Lance: Lance leader, his wingmate, sergeant, his wingmate
>3rd Lance: Lance leader (the junior subaltern), a veteran wingmate, the CSM to keep the greenhorn lieutenant on the ball, his wingmate
This way, you could see the command lance split into two, with the entire company formed up into two demi-companies, if necessary. Or simply keep the command lance together but in the back with the two fighting lances in the front.
>>45107745
Yeah. I've seen command lances and I believe companies used for the FWLM in other cases so I always just assumed the chart in FM:FWL was a result of FM:DC being the only other printed manual.
I suppose one reason so many mech battalions are simply 36 mechs is because logistically its "simpler" using one Overlord or three Unions to transport it.
Or can you convert ASF bays to carry mechs?
>>45107993
Not usually. LAMs would work, and using mixing Unions with Leopards isn't a terrible idea either.
Battlebump.
>>45106685
>>45106708
I can't help but wonder what the next set of unit gen rules will operate like; will it be basically upgraded FMMr or something based on CGL's love for extremely abstract point-based stuff?
>>45106351
Bullshit.
Everybody knows that medron has no friends in real life, which is how he's gone so far off the rails
No bullshit. Who said anything about us being friends? I just happened to play with him for a long time, starting way back when the Heavy Metal Pro site was a real community.
>>45110605
I don't not believe you, I was more making fun of medron
He strikes me as the sort of guy who cheats. Did he? Also, did he refuse to run anything other than his crazy bullshit AUs? I kinda want to know
He didn't cheat but he certainly bent everything he could towards his viewpoints, min/max'd allot and argued constantly. He did run his some of his AU stuff in addition to his faction in one of the games but the level of detail escapes me given this goes back well over a decade ago.
Speaking of furries and the touching of testes in a public space, are there any good resources on Comstar in the Dark Age?
>>45107993
>Or can you convert ASF bays to carry mechs?
You can, but then you need to- worry about where you're going to put the 18-36 ish fighters that go with your unit. Changing transport bays out for other types of bays or making them into a cargo hold isn't that big a deal in the fluff.
>>45112250
Not really. Turning Points Epsilon Eridani is the most concentrated source I can think of.
The quick version is that Gray Monday completely tanked the C-Bil and, since the Lyrans had heavily invested in the network, their economy as well. ComStar outside the Fortress Republic was basically fucked, nobody knew what to do about the whole mess. HPGs could be restored but would crap out soon after and great care had to be taken to isolate ones that somehow kept working/
Inside the Fortress, ComStar rebuilt their 1st Division, but that... ah.. didn't go so well, see TP: EE.
>>45106779
>>45106814
>>45106884
I actually kind of like the taurian's tank arrangement; three two-tank elements per lance, with a battalion command lance
this way, you have the battalion XO, CO and 4 bodyguard units in the command lance, and in each coy you can have the company commander and his XO in 1/1, who's also the leader of 1st lance, while the other two lances are CO/XO/4 troopers.
>>45112628
eh. one lep CV full of ASFs per battalion is plenty by canon, and it fits with replacing the ASF bays in the unions, leps and Overlords for command units
http://catalystgamelabs.tumblr.com/post/138360210316/come-join-the-global-battletech-community
Time to ask Randal where's ilClan
EVERY
WEEK
>mfw trying to decipher all these goddamn military units oh god
Sarna is invaluable but a lot of these Lyrian militia units are either described as "Formed under the auspices of the Federated Commonwelath" or simply don't have a date of formation listed - nor do they have a recorded history prior to 3054. Were they *all* formed in 3054 or so by the FC? Or is that 3054 date due to a 3054 sourcebook somewhere that gave 3054's TOE without mentioning how old the militia units were?
>>45107378
I wanna get a Soviet-style one up. I made one for an infantry regiment once, but don't know where I put it.
>>45112807
>eh. one lep CV full of ASFs per battalion is plenty by canon, and it fits with replacing the ASF bays in the unions, leps and Overlords for command units
Problem is how many extra DS collars it starts to take. The benefit of the Union and Overlord is that they have intrinsic support for ASFs at the right ratio for a unit that size.
A normal Regiment with command elements could have been transported in as little as four DropShips- 3 Overlords, 1 to each Battalion, and then a Union to carry the independent command Lances.
Remove the ASF bays and not only are the DropShips a lot more vulnerable to enemy attack when they're going in, but you need at least 5 collars for that setup- 3 Overlords with the command element mod (they have 6 ASF, you only need to replace 4) and then another 2 Leopard-CVs to makeup the difference.
With Unions it starts getting really unwieldy. Normal Regiment + Command Lances: 10 Unions, ASF element covered.
With command element mods, you have to split those over 2 Unions because they each only have 2 ASF bays, and not enough cargo to work with. This does reduce the Unions you need for transporting 'Mechs to 9, but only 1/3rd of the group has ASFs so you need another two Leopard-CVs.
Getting a hold of enough DropShips can be a bit of an issue, more so for mercs. Thereal crunch point is JumpShips.
When a force that could have been moved in two Merchants (3 Overlord + 1 Union) now needs 3, that starts complicating things.
Honestly I prefer to stay with normal DropShip layouts.
Given the opportunity to build customs I'll instead increase the mass of canon DropShips, keep their transport capacity the same, and give them cargo bays large enough to support the forces they're carrying.
At least the TR 3057R gave the Leopard enough cargo for the crew to have enough consumables not to die on the typical transit run, that was a hell of a thing.
>>45113253
Lyran March Militias? I don't know precisely when, but those are like 99.9999% likely to have been formed after the FedCom merger and modelled on the Suns' existing Marc Militia.
Some got annihilated or nearly so in the Clan Invasion and might have been decommissioned and reformed/newly made to replace lost units in 3054.
Hard to say without more detail, which units are you talking about specifically?
>>45113260
That old Sov org chart reminds me of another thing that's bugged me with the BT orgs: take a look at the logistics units at anything below a division. There's a platoon at battalion level, a company at regimental. Everything below a division in the Sov army depended on the parent unit pushing supplies up to it, and as a result the main tactical units (or "sub-units" to use the quaint Russian term) had little capability for anything resembling prolonged independent ops.
Then look at BT orgs. Where are the supply units? It doesn't bother me they don't get the limelight, since the people of no tactical importance rarely do, but they should at least show which level gets what support. Does a company commander have his own little supply platoon to give him the beans, bullets and brew supplies or does he have to beg Bn for it?
>>45113560
Good point on the collars thing, I hadn't thought of that.
As for mercs, I figure that a Mule is basically perfect for about 90% of merc units, plus maybe a buccaneer or tank carrier if they're larger than a battalion, since probably 90% of merc contracts don't necessitate a combat drop.
Really, merchant DS are better for merc use basically all the time.
That, and they're a lot cheaper than a union or overlord AND can actually carry spare parts and supplies
>>45113921
And if you're a mercenary unit OC on garrison duty and have no tactical need for that Mule, you can charter it for cargo runs. Every C-bill counts.
>>45114052
Indeed. I do that with JS a whole lot, but it would totally work with a DS (though I do prefer to keep them handy for a fast getaway if needed
>>45113921
Unloading stuff from a Mule takes forever though.
Isn't it something like 1 ton per door per minute or something? Takes like five minutes just to get a Locust in or out of the ship. God help you if you have an Atlas.
Not apply that to an entire Battalion. Loading or unloading your 'Mechs could take 12 hours.
I mean, it's doable, it's arguably economical, but holy shit. Meanwhile an Overlord is empty in about a minute.
>>45114052
My merc unit captured a pirate Monarch (yay, RATs) and I was like, "the fuck am I gonna do with this shit?"
Then I turned it into a flying restaurant for the rich and make some money with it on location, and the dependants and infantry live on it when moving between contracts. I haven't sold it because Monarch captured in boarding action from pirates.
>>45114255
>Unloading stuff from a Mule takes forever though.
Doesn't really matter when you're not in combat, though, which is my point; for 90% of mercs, you don't need to unload that fast, so the mule is the wiser choice
>>45114255
Like the anon at >>45114412 said, often you don't need to assault drop your unit anyway. I've always said the difference between a unit having a Mule or a Union is like the difference between a shipping company owning a general cargo freighter and a Landing Ship, Tank.
Also I love the idea of a pirate Monarch. The modern pirate boss or bandit king has to travel in style.
>>45113639
>Hard to say without more detail, which units are you talking about specifically?
Basically I'm just looking for two things:
1. Second-rate/garrison-quality unit
2. Extant in 3025
I don't know much about the canon "main" units and their reputations, so...
>>45114255
I always figured that periphery merchants probably brought a few tanks (and even conventional fighters) in their cargo bays to set up perimeter security around their dropships. They have the dropships meager armament to rely on during landing itself, and they're unlikely to get hot-dropped by pirates before they can unload whatever they bring - if the pirates are already in-system they'll see them at some point during in-system transfer and once they're on the ground with sensors shadowed, well, rare is the system with a pirate point close enough to let a dropship hit the planet in under a few hours. To say nothing of the communication difficulties in orchestrating that kind of attack with your "eyes" on-planet - it's a five-hour radio delay out to the outside of the gravity well, at least for a sun-like star, in case they wanted to use the in-system jump trick.
Definitely not the various Lyran March Militias as they were all formed post 4th Succession War.
One of the Lyran Regulars is your best bet.
>>45114581
Ah. March Militia are a very different thing to planetary militia.
March Militia are actually line-quality units. They're just used defensively and very rarely leave their home planet, let alone their March/Province of origin.
It sounds like what you're looking for is planetary militia, and those aren't listed in the Field Manuals.*
Your standard planetary militia in that era has 2-3 regiments of tanks, and maybe double that in infantry. Retirees from the proper military might add another 1-3 lances of 'Mechs and ASF if you're really lucky.
These forces usually don't matter if line forces are involved. At best they're canon fodder, usually they get ignored outright.
*For the most part. Some line units have vehicles or infantry from a planetary militia under their command, but those forces will stay put if the rest of the unit goes off-world.
>>45114827
>Your standard planetary militia in that era has 2-3 regiments of tanks, and maybe double that in infantry.
[Citation Needed]
>>45114827
March militia are more 2nd-line units, usually scattered over several worlds in their theatre of operations a la a ComGuard division.
>>45114827
That's a really big planetary militia you're describing. Hot Spots has typical planetary garrison sizes: here's the "large" one.
>>45114827
>Your standard planetary militia in that era has 2-3 regiments of tanks, and maybe double that in infantry
I have never heard of ANY planetary military of that size existing after the star league, let alone it being "standard"
>>45110093
The 2012 beta version is still available for download from Catalyst's downloads section.
The Objectives PDF series also has it's own militia rules. That IS if the poster asking about Lyran second-line units and in the 3025 era meant militia and not just a second tier listed regiment.
Discussing militia and other units other than listed regiments is tricky business. Such forces have varied tremendously over the year from regiments worth described in the 4th Succession era to the much smaller numbers of today. 30 years worth of Battletech means 30 years of different writers, editors and development teams, each whom tackled the subject in different ways. I suggest only that you should use what feels right, given the situation and location.
>>45114827
I would love to roleplay a member of the shitty Alliance militia having to deal with arrogant black burd warriors and Fed rebels in my poedunk old starfighter or armord vehicle.
>>45114827
Aaaahhh, THANK you. That explains a lot. So all I need to do is find a planet that is relatively wealthy and well-industrialized close enough to the Periphery border that it need sweat the occasional decent raid. That works!
>>45115139
*exactly* what I needed, thank you!
>>45113560
>and then a Union to carry the independent command Lances
I get your point about saving on DS collars, but putting your three battalion commanders on one ship sounds like an accident waiting to happen.
>and then another 2 Leopard-CVs to makeup the difference.
Or you use the Union to carry ASFs instead and it balances out. Three dedicated mech carriers and one dedicated aerospace carrier.
But at the end of the day I agree that I prefer to keep with normal DS layouts. Instead of putting all the command lances on a Union I'd make it the dedicated hotdropper to secure the landing zone(s).
I have no doubt I'm the first to ask this, but does anyone else think the warship construction rules seem kinda broke?
Like the connection between structural integrity and armor. Things just seem funky.
Anyone else have thoughts on said construction rules?
http://www.pryderockindustries.com/humansphere/ddb/spacecraft_warships/vincent_mk_t5_destroyer_%28human_sphere%29_tcw_vandenberg.htm
>>45112628
>Changing transport bays out for other types of bays or making them into a cargo hold isn't that big a deal in the fluff.
You can trade vehicle bays in for anything, but there's some fluff about 'Mechs and aeros being harder because 'Mechs occupy a "tall" volume and have ramps to the ground, whereas fighters occupy a "flat" volume with no ramps.
A few dropships have bays which are known for being easy to reconfigure, but I forget which.
>>45113560
>A normal Regiment with command elements could have been transported in as little as four DropShips
They normally aren't, though, because it's risky to put all your baskets in one egg.
>>45115139
Is the "armor support" rolled per 'Mech company, or does Hot Spots really think there are more 'Mechs than tanks in the universe? Because the latter would be strange and wrong.
>>45115551
The number of "standing" regiments is probably smaller than the number that can get raised during something like the 4thSW. So there's room for variation even within any single model of militia sizes.
>>45116634
>You can trade vehicle bays in for anything, but there's some fluff about 'Mechs and aeros being harder because 'Mechs occupy a "tall" volume and have ramps to the ground, whereas fighters occupy a "flat" volume with no ramps.
Either way, I'd imagine it's a flat C-Bill fee up-front to modify the dropship for this or that task. Switch some cargo doors to devoted ASF/Vehicle/Mech doors, with all the equipment needed for rapid off-loading, and you're good.
What defines a military dropship, more than just the cargo bay configuration, is the armoring, weapons and sensor systems (and probably the main drive power and structural integrity) that allow it to be survivable during approach, planetfall and landing.
>>45116634
That other anon typed like you, britautist-anon, so I thought he was you.
>>45116827
>there's a problem with minmaxing
/v/ pls
>>45116853
>not playing mechs as they were designed
>refusing to play unless you can have a 5/8/5 clan targetting computer + pulse lasers
>in 3025
shitty player pls
Anyone have the Wrasselhog version?
>>45116879
>>in 3025
Found your problem, /v/.
>>45116918
>i only play in 3050
>as wolf
>>45116891
yep
>>45116992
>Wolf
I'm a Ghost Bear player, pleb.
>>45117055
>plays clan
>literally
>plays
>clan
>>45117139
aye that's what I said, boyo
want to bring your PoS mech to my neighborhood and post drac cartoon pics?
>>45117188
>literally an autistic furry who only plays minmaxed shit
Held CBT demo games, and people are coming back. Success!
They don't understand shit behind the lore as it is 'too complex' but like the actual game, which is a good start. Usually it's the other way around.
>>45117042
MG knees STRONG. Need MORE.
>>45117055
literally gay bar regular itt
>>45117188
OYH ROB MOSELEY, SHUT YER GOB, THIS GUY DID GOOD WITH ALL HIS CARTOONS SO FUCK OFF
>>45117261
>he plays to lose
smug_drac_cartoon.holo
>>45117287
oi, sod off m8 we're 'avin a chin wag about his rubbish mechs.
>he puts claws on his fursonamech
>he doesn't even melee
>>45117474
>he's such a bad shot he has to resort to melee
>he doesn't play multiple eras
>he doesn't play multiple factions
>he doesn't play different strategies
>he limits himself and he's proud of it
it is like you don't even like the game, anons
>>45117540
exactly. there's literally nothing wrong with playing clans.
>>45117398
Rob Moseley here, ur a rite fascist gobshite.
Re: min-maxing though, it's not really a very competitive game in the first place. It can be fun to have Crusaders explode every now and then. Most Clan designs are kind of boring compared to the more volatile IS ones, though it's not like they're completely without their own turkeys. Loki and Thor in prime configs are good examples.
>>45117618
It's funny how people complain about there being too many different equipment options, but if you play clan and mostly use clantech, you don't have much more on your plate than pure 3025
>>45117666
Do people really complain about there being too many equipment options?
>>45117760
yeah
they complain there are too many units too
they say it is too hard to keep track of them all
kinda ironic considering kids know all the 721 pokémon, a shitload of attacks and abilities and they still want more while the old battletech fans think 50 mechs and 20 weapons is enough
>>45117618
>there's literally nothing wrong with mental illness
>>45117976
trying too hard there
What are the various faction's field rations probably like?
I know the FedCom supposedly had awful food.
>>45118068
>trying too hard there
>says the clanner
>>45117760
Yes. It's a frequent complaint on the OF, and a reason that the weak must be culled.
>>45118123
Marik food comes in a massive numbers of types, and there's lots of it.
Lyran food is shit unless you're an officer.
Cappie food is shit even if you're an officer.
Drac food is an imitation of Japanese traditional food. Boxed sushi and the like.
>>45118123
Mariks have higher water supply requirements because of all the spaghetti
>>45118373
Campaign for the Bolan Thumb when?
>>45118373
Pasta would probably be mostly Andurien, if language commonality indicates anything.
>>45117973
Yeah, and there's no easy way to sort for type/ability/move combinations like you can in MM for weapon/armor/speed/whatever combinations (that I know of)
>>45118163
When you have Leviathans you don't have to try hard :^)
>>45118123
>minor powers:
>Outworlds Alliance
No real rations aside from imported fedsuns and drac MREs; mostly whatever home-cooked food is around; probably lots of mutton, beef and bread-based foods
>magistracy
Varied, but there's not enough of it unless you're a woman, officer or both. Lots of imports from the taurians, FWL and capcon.
After the capcon takeover, replace with rice, amphetamines and unicorn dust
>taurians
Pork and beans, beef jerky, corn and potato-based foods. Some units hold the dubious distinction of being the last remaining "regular" units to issue QN alcohol ration
>Marian hegemony
Other people's beef, wine, potatos and bread
>>45114940
>what is the Field Manual series
Several units in each book have their conventional support units coming from planetary militia. formations that size are hardly unusual.
War of 3039 also has similarly-sized formations mentioned in its combat reports, either resisting an invasion or being bought in to garrison captured planets.
It also doesn't mean those formations are parading around with Alacorns and BA. They've definitely got shit-tier equipment. The vehicle component will be lucky to have anything bigger than a Vedette and the whole group will break if faced with pitched combat.
The problem as >>45115551 says is that it varies wildly from source to source. Then it might conflict with Hot Spots or Objectives. Then it might clash with what seems to be possible due to FASAnomics. Etc etc etc.
>>45116035
The armour/SI linkage doesn't bother me. If there is no hard limit on how much armour a ship can have, the low mass cost of armour means that you can really pile it on. WarShips over 250kt can get a 1:1 mass to armour point ratio with Lamellor Ferr-Carbide. Have a look at some of the Star League ships and their cargo allocations, imagine how many armour points they would have if they devoted half their available cargo to armour instead. Fuckers would be unkillable short of a lucky nuke roll, a Vincent that still had Ferro-Carbide armour would average over 6,000 armour per facing.
For the rest of it, that's what you get from a system that was created after the first WarShips were given stats. On the one hand you can actually explain the SLN doctrine to a degree- their WarShips are supporting a lot of Achilles, Titan, and Vengeance DropShips on long cruises, and you can get out of it that way.
The system visibly starts to break down with some of the 3057ish designs that start carrying less cargo and more guns and armour (Kirishima, frex) and is totally gone when vessels in the '59+ era like the Mjolnir, Avalon, Leviathan II/III, and Conqueror are OOC min-maxed to hell and gone.
It's clunky, but it has a certain charm as long as you don't go full min/max with it.
>>45116516
>invents a new weapon type, presumably restricted to his special snowflake faction
>they're 2.5 tons, and do 7 damage
>Jesus fuck
>armour comparable to SL Destroyer/Heavy Cruisers
>weapons comparable to SL Destroyers
>ASF equivalent to a SL Battleship
And this is totally reasonable and plausible for the Taurians of his AU, because TAURUS STRONK.
Fuck this shit. I'm getting a drink.
>>45119697
He does class it as a destroyer. And to be fair in a small way, all that extra armor, weapons, etc is a result of the OOC minmaxing era you mentioned above.
On the other hand while retarded for the TC it has inspired me to play with the Vincent to create a new variant for a faction that can actually support warships.
>>45119764
You can do a fair bit with a Vincent, it's "smart modularity" fluff even suggests there might have been more going on. Particularly with the idea that there's 40 marks of it we haven't seen stats for.
If you want it to be (semi)-realistic I'd avoid doing much with the armour or engine, those are supposed to be major modifications going by the Kimagure/Conqueror fluff. Adding DS collars is probably out but you could give it DS internal cargo bays instead.
Weapons... eh, you have the tonnage, may as well go nuts with it.
Could work as a light carrier, you can fit 54 or so ASF onto it without reducing its cargo that much, and the canon factions that had Vincents definitely had the resources to modify it like that.
I'll stop staring over your shoulder and making "helpful"ANNOYING AND OBVIOUS AS FUCKsuggestions now though.
>>45119697
for the only time in my life I'm going to use the words "in fairness to medron pryde", because i've dug through his crap in the vague hope that there was something worthwhile, somewhere, and the WarShip stuff is the only part of his nonsense with any redeeming features at all. none of the features of the warship in question are in any way unique to the taurians; most of the 100kt+ warships in the setting consist of old destroyers and corvettes cheesed out and minmaxed; the lyrans get a 425kt destroyer with TWO LIGHT MASS DRIVERS, for example
>>45120026
I was considering modifications to the armor but not SI. Didn't have anything planned with the engine but will add a LF battery.
A docking collar was on my mind but actually you make a good point about simply adding the ASF to it directly (which is the only reason I'd add a collar).
Weapons are a big point, I'm thinking of making it a pocket destroyer.
Plus it will travel as a the lead vessel of a squadron of PWSs, assault and carrier DSs.
It'll be one of a kind within its story, not the start of a mass-produced class.
>>45120148
>the lyrans get a 425kt destroyer with TWO LIGHT MASS DRIVERS, for example
I don't think you get to use "min-maxed" and "mass drivers" in the same sentence when you are talking BT.
>>45120263
sorry, I should have specified, his fanfic mass drivers that don't get the penalties of regular BT mass drivers
In movement in AeroTech is there an appreciable difference between 3/5 and 4/6 movement like with Mechs?
>>45120148
I dunno, dude. Those ER Light PPCs are maximum bullshit. 2.5 tons, probably 2 crits, 7 damage, 9 heat, and a range of at least 8/16/25?
I've seen him sperg out about Clan tech ruining the game , but that's just fine because reasons.
Also you can only have one Mass Driver per ship, unless his are also custom weapons. I would say "and thus better than the canon ones" but we're talking about mass drivers, so that would be completely redundant.
Re-doing all the warships doesn't bother me too much. I've done something similar, except I tried to not bite too deeply into cargo fractions when doing so- increase major bays to as close to 70 damage as possible, replace NAC/35s and /40s with bays of lighter NACs that can shoot further, give them enough heat sinks to sink their entire weapons array, strap on AMS, etc... but at least then the ships still retain their character.
>>45120428
>I've seen him sperg out about Clan tech ruining the game , but that's just fine because reasons.
>username includes "Pryde"
seriously?
>>45120392
For ASF, sort of. Carrying bomb loads will really slow them down. The advantages gained by having a smaller engine are minimal compared to going faster; you might be able to fit more stuff on.
A 100XL Engine (3/5 ASF) sets you back 1.5 tons, and a 200 weighs 4.5 compared to the 9.5 tons of a 300XL to go 5/8. You probably wouldn't want to use an XL in the 100's case either, those take up equipment slots. In the 200's case you need to stay with the XL, otherwise you should drop .5 of a ton somewhere else and spring for the 300XL.
Slower fighters are also meat for faster ones. A 5/8 or 6/9 fighter's not losing that much compared to a 3/5 or 4/6 one, and as soon as they get into the Aft arc of a slower fighter the difference evaporates totally.
For DropShips, 4/6 is about average movement. You can't really build effect assault DropShips at that mass, PWSes work though because of their weapon ranges and damage.
3/5 is absolutely fine on WarShips. There are some advantages to going faster, especially if you have a lot of Extreme-ranged guns, but as a general rule 3/5 is as fast as you need to go.
>>45120515
oh, yes. he has this great thing in which is eponymous OC goes is very mad about the clans making his family name (which he indigently points out that his family had first) into a prize to be fought over. crack open mercs supplemental and look up the DropShip irregulars, it appears there
>>45120428
>Those ER Light PPCs are maximum bullshit. 2.5 tons, probably 2 crits, 7 damage, 9 heat, and a range of at least 8/16/25?
they are, they just aren't unique to the taurians, IIRC. he's not exactly the best at balance, y'know?
>Also you can only have one Mass Driver per ship, unless his are also custom weapons
yes, they are also custom; they don't get the disadvantages and you can mount two, though they apparently don't have an extreme range bracket
>>45120515
Read the MercSup entry on p. 31.
Medron Pryde is a canon character with a mad hate-on of the Clans and WoB, who managed to fend off elite WoB forces and rescue the equally canon and equally wikkid kewl Rick Raisley.
HAHAHA MEDRON PRYDE SPHERE WIDE FUCKERSSeriously guys I weep for humanity.[/qpoiler]
>>45120845
>Seriously guys I weep for humanity.
meh, this is really just mid-level autism in a small community. frankly, he could be about fifty times worse and STILL not break the top 100 internet autismal fanboys
>>45120845
What's the story with R. Raisley?
>>45120992
he's the HeavyMetal series guy.
or was, really
>>45120756
>>45120845
Wait, this faggotry made it into a soucebook?
Fuck me, why do I play this shitty game again?
>>45121039
Oh. I never really got into forum personalities so I was surprised when I started to learn them here.
I've got Strategic Ops in front of me but can someone with WarShip experience tell me what figures I should look at when changing a warship's engine size? As in what making it larger or smaller will affect besides possible SI? I don't want to miss something with regards to ship tonnage.
>>45121154
You're here forever.
>>45121154
You enjoy pain and suffer a crippling sense of self-loathing?It's OK, we all do. That's why we've all stuck with the game.
>>45121154
>Wait, this faggotry made it into a soucebook?
fortunately, it was literally the only mention of them until they were unceremoniously killed off in the jihad
>Fuck me, why do I play this shitty game again?
because you enjoy giant stompy robots but aren't a fan of certain form personalities or parts of the setting?
>>45121173
Engine mass is 6% of vessel mass per Cruise Thrust MP. SI maximum is 30 times maximum thrust.
So a ship with a 3/5 thrust profile dedicates 18% of its mass to its engines and has a maximum SI of 150.
>>45121173
>>45121212
Fuck. you're both right.
>>45121299
Finally, a reason to appreciate the jihad!
>>45121617
>hates Jihad
you are literally worse than Medron Pryde, you sick fuck
>>45121320
I found that engine weight also affects free heat sinks.
Anything else? I think I'm good now. SI and heat sinks is all I found.
>>45121706
Note that I hate the Jihad, the way it was executed, as a ham-fisted way to set the stage for the pre-ordained dark age. There are salvageable concepts, and I like the Word of Blake... But I think the actual execution was wanting.
If that makes me a sick fuck, oh well.
>>45121802
>not only hates the Jihad but also hates the Dark Age
You are worse than a thousand Medron Prydes
How do I determine the tonnage for a grav deck? Which book addresses that?
>>45121980
>likes the Dark Age
I bet you like ClickyTech too
>>45121706
the jihad WAS shit tho
it was a bunch of contrived bullshit thrown together around wizkid's half-assed darkage setting, which was also shit
in order to accomplish this drastic transition, we got a shit-tier 40kid meme faction literally pulling whatever they needed out of their ass, muh warcrimes bullshit to make everything GRIM and EDGY and HIGH-STAKES
frankly, jihad+DA is worse than anything medron pryde ever came up with
>>45122072
The Jihad wasn't really any edgier than the first two Succession Wars.
>>45121749
Free heat sinks, yeah. I tend to *really* not worry about that, unless you're designing a 6/9+ WarShip you're gonna have plenty of mass left over to play with.
From a tactical perspective I guess you can consider the ECHO option in StratOps. If you have 2 MP left in whatever Thrust mode you used in your movement phase, you can alter your facing by 1 hex side to the left or right, though you do have an additional +1 or +2 to-hit penalty for doing so depending on whether you used Safe Thrust or Maximum Thrust to ECHO.
It's really difficult to ECHO in a 2/3 ship, but a bit easier in a 3/5 one. 4/6 is about as fast as you can go and still have a reasonable amount of mass for weapons, SI, armour and the rest and gives you pretty good ECHO options.
It also has effects on getting into/out of High-Speed Engagements but those are abstracted to hell and gone. High-Speed Engagements are even more abstracted than Alpha Strike, I guess they're good if you want to simulate the feel of some kind of naval interaction, but they heavily gimp some ships that are good or great in a normal space game while making ones that are ordinarily shit into buzzsaws of death.
Those aren't directly related to construction, but it helps to keep in mind for what your ship will do after it leaves the dock.
The only other thing to really be mindful of with ship construction is fire control mass. You can have up to 20 weapons (AMS and satellite imagers count as weapons for these purposes) for free, but for every 20 beyond that you have to pay 10% of the mass of all weapons in the arc for fire control. So 20 weapons, no fire control. 21 weapons, 10% of the total weapon mass for that arc. 72 weapons, 30% of the weapon mass for that arc. Etc.
Fire control can really start chewing up your available mass, so keep an eye out for that.
>>45121980
Yeah. Not apologizing for that.
>>45122112
there's a large difference between ''there was this big spacepocalypse and that's why all the factories and WarShips were blown up and people don't use nukes anymore'' and leave it at that, rather than ''WARCRIMES IN YO FACE 24/7''
>>45122182
I guess. I don't think too deeply about the fluff though. It's just background noise to my shooty robots. Plus what I recall is the Jihad had plenty of hilarious moments, like the Donner bombing and Waco's last stand.
>>45121987
And now you have seen the joys of dealing with the naval game. Everything is literally scattered across the entire core rule book section except AtoW.
StratOps: Most structural components, including engine, KF drive, SI, and armour.
TacOps: Capital weapons aside from missiles, Lithium-Fusion batteries, Grav Decks, part of what you need for DropShip bays, Docking Collars.
TechManual: Capital missile launchers, crew quarters, cargo bays and compartments for ASF, infantry, 'Mechs and normal cargo
This, BTW, is why I hate the new core rules. TW does have more gear than the BMR, but not much more, ditto AT2 and TacOps for new naval gear.
Now compare the size and complexity of TW, TM, TO and SO to the BMR and AT2. If you don't have AT2, it's like a fifth of an inch thick, tops.
Like what the literal fuck, FanPro/CGL.
>>45122112
Actually, that's my problem with it. The Jihad was pretty weak sauce compared to the succession wars. It seemed like the damage was really localized to the factories and planets they needed to stop existing. It felt contrived, and often forced the Word of Blake into what I felt were awkward and nonsensical assaults.
>>45122339
Fuck this shit is unnecessarily complicated.
>>45120148
>and the WarShip stuff is the only part of his nonsense with any redeeming features at all.
Hey, cowboy shaped protomechs are great
>>45122363
>and often forced the Word of Blake into what I felt were awkward and nonsensical assaults
>>45122363
Much as CGL pisses me off with a lot of what they do, you can't really blame them for that. They were handed a turd by MW: DA and had to do their best in polishing it.
I wish the Jihad SBs hadn't been as much IC as they were and were better with hard details, but the final result had already been determined and all CGL could do was unfuck as much of it as possible. Given the constraints they were operating in, it wasn't a bad effort. I understand if it's not to everyone's taste in terms of how it was provided to us (I didn't like the JHS model and you can see its influence now in other places) or the edgelord grimdark nature of AND THEN THE ELITE CYBORG LEGIONS OF THE WOB NUKED ALL THE PEOPLE WHO LIVED ON PLANET X AND INFECTED EVERYON ON PLANET Y WITH A BIOWEAPON MUHAHAHAHA stuff it degenerates into sometimes, but they were forced to do it by their liscencing contract.
Doesn't render them immune to criticism, does explain a lot of what's going on.
>>45122461
Agreed. Really, WizKids and MWDA are the cause of more or less all the problems that people bitch about regarding the settingand the rest are all Coleman's fault
>>45122553
I didn't like the angle they took with Manei Domini as it's own subfaction.
In my opinion it would have been cooler if cyborgs arose as a result of the Jihad itself, and the longer the war went on the more Blakists would get cybernetics to keep in the fight. To compensate for their small numbers, I mean. So that by the end of the war the surviving Blakists virtually are the living embodiment of the propaganda against them, being merged with the technology they worship and are perceived as alien to the rest of the Inner Sphere.
>>45122662
Yeah, really. I mean, red robed murdercyborgs who speak in psudo-latin? Come the fuck on, we all know what you're rippibg off and it sucks
>>45122408
If you have AeroTech 2 or download it from the MF archive it's a lot easier to deal with, yeah.
For whatever reason CGL decided that the more needlessly complex they could make things and the more books they could split the design and combat rules into, the better.
Cash. It was for cash. They knew they could get more shekels that way, and new porches aren't cheap. Well, Coleman's wasn't.
As much flak as FASA gets for doing stuff that doesn't add up with military sizes or economies or technology, at least their rules were contained to 3 books that weren't bloated by wordy, wordy explanations of how everything worked or pages of fiction nobody cares about. They also had art, and shitty as FASA-era art might be I'll still take that over another still life miniature picture.
>>45122719
And who are based on Mars, and who venerate if not worship technology.
HOW SUBTLE.
>>45122777
>>45122553
Sure you can. CGL is essentially the Wizkids MWDA writers minus Jordan Weisman. Now, I think that IS a notable difference, but their fingerprints ARE on the mess.
I dunno, the Jihad just feels incomplete, hollow. It's like a movie set. Sure, they were left holding that turd, whether they shat it themselves, or were handed the turd isn't terribly relevant.
The problem comes in, when they just did the bare minimum. DA said this factory got trashed? Trashed it gets! DA says this planet got nuked? Well, by blake we'll nuke that son of a bitch even if we have to do a drive-by spite nuke to see it done.
If you don't focus your eyes, it looks real. If you stand at the right angle, the magic picture appears. But if you go behind the set, you can see the timbers holding up the facade. You can see the grip running cables.
They followed the facts established by the dark age like it was a checklist. They didn't enrich it much or embellish it enough to make it convincing to me.
>>45123184
Remember too that WK and then Topps had the final say as to how the events went down though. Even if CGL wanted to embellish, they may not have been able to.
>>45123184
I guess they also had to deal with the way the DA backpeddled like mad from its initial premise.
The way it was when it started, 'Mechs were hella rare due to the devastation of the Jihad and Stone's reforms, armed civilian 'Mechs were filling in.
Then they realised that was retarded and suddenly everyone had hidden real 'Mechs away and were using them again. Oh, and people didn't give a shit about the Storm Hammers or Swordsworn, better get the proper Houses in there...
The DA was just a mess. Anything you do to try and explain it is doomed from the outset. Not much that can be done about it now though, I made my peace with that like ten years ago.
>>45123407
>Storm Hammers or Swordsworn
I forgot all about them. What was their deal?
>>45123297
And that could well explain why it came to pass the way it did. Doesn't prevent it from disappointing me.
>>45123407
Perhaps the saddest part of it is that we've been dealing with that mess for half of the game's thirty year lifespan. This began in 2001, and we're still not clear of it fifteen years later.
>>45123580
I'm sure when the ilClan books start coming out this will all get sorted out.
*snicker*
Battletech peaked in 1998/3059 and that's a fact
>>45113208
There is way too much happening in this picture
>>45123580
>Perhaps the saddest part of it is that we've been dealing with that mess for half of the game's thirty year lifespan. This began in 2001, and we're still not clear of it fifteen years later.
In my experience a lot of players dealt with it by just not dealing with it at all. Games set up to and including 3067 were most common for years. With the clicky crap around Dark Age was basically ignored for years.
>>45123184
>CGL is essentially the Wizkids MWDA writers minus Jordan Weisman
Shit, is this right? Is Jordan the reason we got the Dark Age mess? Sorry to ask such a newbish question, but I legit never did understand who was in charge of that magical part of our glorious future space history.
>>45123571
They were basically faction-lite versions of the Lyrans and Suns respectively. Dracs had the Dragon's Fury. They were fighting to gain control of Republic worlds and eventually perhaps force the Republic to return them to their original state.
The way the DA was initially presented it seemed as though most of the Sphere had literally been destroyed and the Swordsworn, Stormhammers, Dragon's Fury and similar factions were all that remained of the Great Houses, Clans, or Mercenary units they were descended from. It really looked as though all that was left of the Inner Sphere was the Republic of the Sphere, hence its name and Stone's power.
We did learn that this wasn't actually the case and that initial material was just REALLY focused on the Republic of the Sphere.
That's still a hell of a first impression to make and try to overcome. I saw the first DA stuff, thought the Houses were destroyed, and nope'd right out. That you couldn't just walk into a store and simply buy the force you wanted to use, you had to buy randomised starter and booster packs meant I was never going to play MW:DA but I would at least have followed the fluff. Except that the fluff seemed to be taking a giant, steaming dump on everything I liked about BT, so...
>mfw magclamped BA on a Ferret
>>45123758
It may not be 100% accurate, and the shift in who's calling the shots may make all the difference in the world, but given that I've heard a lot of "back to the good old days" talk out of Jordan, it would not surprise me in the least if the Dark Age's attempt at a reboot was his doing.
I mean, look at the Harebrained Studios game, look at the Mechwarrior 3015 trailer that eventually became MWO. Look at MWO at release. they're all succession wars era throwbacks. They all had him involved.
It could also be that the blame doesn't rest solely with him, and those responsible for the mess that was the Dark Age under WizKids have learned their lessons. I don't have any special inside knowledge here, just conjectures.
I read Ghost War and that was enough Derp Age for me. Hopefully it got better.
>>45123758
He was the head of the company. As >>45123886 said, the asthetic of the setting matches a lot of what he's said he wants to do in other projects.
The blame might not be 100% his (you can definitely see Coleman's influence with how good the CapCon is in both the MWDA stuff and in CGL's material) but the buck ultimately stops with him.
>>45124025
That's a good point.Even if it wasn't all his idea, he's the one who signed off on the finished product. Doesn't make me think he disagrees with what went down.
>>45123796
>The way the DA was initially presented it seemed as though most of the Sphere had literally been destroyed and the Swordsworn, Stormhammers, Dragon's Fury and similar factions were all that remained of the Great Houses, Clans, or Mercenary units they were descended from. It really looked as though all that was left of the Inner Sphere was the Republic of the Sphere, hence its name and Stone's power.
It's been a long time since I saw the early DA stuff but wow. I didn't remember it like that.
