This comic has been declining for years. Even with the recent reboot where Burlew promised less text. Despite that change he pretty much instantly went back to the walls of text about a Scandinavian pantheon we don't give a fuck about, with loads of self-reference that he probably giggles and masturbates too, even though he's the only one who finds it funny.
It's been a long time since OOTS has been competently written; probably around the time of Roy's death. Even before that, the cuts to Xykon and the gloom creature grew boring fast. No one gives a fuck about Redcloak and the entire setting is far too confusing and complicated for the kind of low-effort fun a webcomic is supposed to be.
You have literary-tier complexity in a comic that has about as much literary merit as a shit in a portapotty at a state fair, combined with slow updates because Burlew hurt his hand two years ago and hasn't stopped milking it since. I bet he had a Kickstarter to fund his broken hand. God knows he's had plenty of others for this webcomic that should have concluded 5 years ago.
>>44945543
If it is so awful, why do you read it?
>>44945595
If no one posted it on /tg/ I wouldn't even remember that this existed. I stopped reading it long ago, incidentally about the time Roy came back to life.
>>44945543
SWORDS SWORDS SWORDS
>>44945428
I've not liked this arc very much, but this line made me chuckle and almost think it was worth it.
Dr Mcninja is still better
I would have preferred "FWOOMPH"
Why doesn't rich understand that the only characters people care about are v and evilstabbydick
>>44946280
Because you're full of shit?
>>44946280
I also care about Xykon and Redcloak!
>>44946280
Fuck you, Scruffy is the best.
>>44945543
wow hooked on fonicks really worked great for wordsanon
>>44946280
>not reading oots for Elan
I figure I should do this at least once. Not a memeful Thog edit, unfortunately.
1st, on word-count: If you google search 'Comic Book Batman' and tab over to 'images' this is literally the first non-cover-art page to pop up. Keep scrolling and it's pretty clear this word density is pretty standard across most comic books. Anybody who's still whining about Rich using too many words has no idea what they're talking about and they're reaching for whatever low hanging fruit they can find. Comics have words in them, typically many. CAD has too many words (or at least it did back when I stopped reading it). That stupid 'Trial Of The Century in Sapphire City' or whatever bullshit had too many words and was boring as fuck. Standard word count in modern OOTS seems average if not a little low.
Whining about word count seems so pathetic when there's so many other perfectly reasonable things to whine about in OOTS.
1. Don't Split The Party:
Rich keeps splitting our attention across multiple settings, making it difficult to maintain focus on a tight narrative. Rich -used- to be really good about limiting side-story minutiae to quick, efficient, two-panel explanations or gags that adequately explained some detail or made some joke without losing momentum in the 'primary' scene. The Exarch stealing the Teleport Orb could've been handled -inside- a comic that primarily took place in the Godsmoot. I can't remember the exact comic, but I remember an old one that had the first and last panels in the 'primary setting' and all of the other panels doing some secondary thing in the 'secondary setting'. This bookending helps the audience keep track of what's important and maintains narrative momentum. A 'good' recent example is Belkar bitching about Roy while he trudges up the mountain. It sidetracks us from the action, sure, but it reintroduces Belkar as an actor in the primary scene, let's us bask in some Belkar humor, and ends on the steps of the Godsmoot to remind us of what's important. These flags are particularly important when...
>>44945595
Literally nobody on /tg/ would read it if it weren't posted all the time.
>>44949744
I would if it updated more consistently. But it doesn't.
>>44945543
>No one gives a fuck about Redcloak
Lets not say shit we can't take back, Anon!
>muh hand
Man, dude kickstarter'd a million fucking dollars and he couldn't trust some intern for 20k a year to handle two tiers above stick figure comic? Well shit, I guess he already had everybody's money by then...
>>44945543
this is VirtualOptim folks, say him goodbye again
2. Some plots are Needlessly Complex.
"Honestly Nale, that plan of yours had too many moving parts." -Tarquin
Any time we're in a 'Lawful' setting like Azure City or the Godsmoot or Heaven my eyes glaze over and I wait a few months or so before I blitz through the comics in that setting all at once. Nale(rip) and the Empire of Blood have this problem too, but there it's played for laughs. So the Gods are having a vote on whether or not to end the world, Hel has a niche bet that relies on the specific way the world ends, she sends Durkula there to rig the vote in her favor, (oh no wait but she already had a thing going with the demigods in anticipation of getting a high cleric to the godsmoot), so Durkula gets there but things start not going according to plan so Hel sends ANOTHER High Priest who could've just executed this plan himself to help teleport Durkula to rig ANOTHER vote that was part of Hel's backup plan just in case one of her followers pussed out on her but it's okay because-No wait she needed Durkula to find the location of the Godsmoot-No wait she was in communication with the demigods in attendance at the Godsmoot so she must've already known where it was or one of her conspirators would've been glad to tell her or maybe...
Remember when Xykon lost his phylactery to a couple of beaten adventurers? That was exciting. And it made sense because Xykon isn't some chessmaster genius strategist with some 50-step plan. He's just some (powerful) dude (lich) with a MacGuffin or two who can still be outsmarted by his 2nd in command. Those stories are fun. I miss those stories.
>>44950259
>Hel sends ANOTHER High Priest
Hel didn't have another High Priest, or any priest, really. All of the vampire clergy in the Godsmoot were created by Durkula, or created by vampires created by Durkula. You're not wrong, though. This whole thing has been needlessly complex and far too dragged out. Either have it end in Hel's success or everyone else's. If Durkon's already gone nothing that happens in the Godsmoot is going to have enough impact, anyway. Not on the story, on the reader. Whether or not Hel succeeds is not nearly as relevant to people reading this as, say, Belkar destroying Durkula, and possibly himself being killed in the process. That's what everyone wants to see, not the talking bird.
Who gives a shit about the pets, really? You don't want them to die, but you don't really care. They don't need their own pages.
This comic is alright, but I kind of wish we could just wrap things up in this subplot. After all, Roy could easily kill the leader of the church and end it all right now. His party is down a cleric, but they're at an event full of clerics, I would be surprised if they couldn't pick a new one up for the last dungeon.
>>44950259
>-No wait she needed Durkula to find the location of the Godsmoot-
I don't disagree, but it was explained earlier that Durkula already knew exactly where Godsmoot was, he just needed an excuse to get the party to go there.
>>44945543
In all fairness it is a lot better then most webcomics.
>>44950689
Don't get me wrong, I still like OOTS and I still read it. If I didn't give a shit about it I wouldn't be complaining about it.
I think it's kind of fascinating to see in what ways the comic has improved (general storytelling, pacing, story planning, sort-of Art maybe, character development) and in what ways time has worn it down, sometimes as a result of those very improvements. (complex stories, minutiae taken too seriously, unimportant character development, obligatory inconsistent-upload complaint, less confident gags/jokes, pigeonholing characters into safezones )
>>44948504
>>44946280
Team Evil > The Order > Everyone else
>>44945428
The cat has been shown to be clever in the past, but this is literally-understanding-human-speech levels of nuance.
Bets on there being some secret the feline is hiding?
>>44951159
I'm guessing Blackwing just knows how to communicate with other animals.
>>44951159
Has the soul of Shojo probably.
>>44951210
Is that common/possible in D&D?
>>44951304
Nah. If Shojo knew an epic Wizard he could rig a contingency that would do it in event of his death.
But at that point of power curve he could also ask the Wizard to go slap Xykon around a bit and resolve all this darn main plot.
>>44951382
Mr. Scruffy could also be a lost member of the 12 Gods. The Cat was the missing animal from the Chinese Zodiac, remember.
>>44953562
Clearly Mr. Scruffy is an awakened cat with levels in cleric, who worships the missing Cat god while controlling the throne through the use of a senile human puppet, controlled through the use of divine magic.
He'll take Durkon's place on the team, now that there's an open slot.
>>44953562
I'll be sure to send you a fruit basket.
>>44953562Etotama?
>>44950828
>It's k we can resurrect you
>"nah I don't want to live if I can't be with this guy I only just met like a day ago and am only attracted to on a physical level"
Dumb emo bitch. Elan dodged a bullet here; she would've been clingy and jealous as fuck.
>>44954638
>a day ago
She'd been crushing on him for months at that point, and become totally enamored with the fantasy she had in her head about him. She didn't take the reality rejecting her very well.
>>44948534
>privilege
you can probably work with this
>>44945428
>weaponized stupidity
It's interesting, I'll give him that
>>44951210
>>44951159
He's the fallen 13th God of the south.
>>44950875
>>44950259
Hel knew where the Godsmoot was because Durkula knew where the Godsmoot was and just needed Roy to hear about the Godsmoot so that they could quest to the Godsmoot to Godsmoot.
Godsmoot.
Also Hel needed Durkon to be turned and was only turned because Durkon couldn't stop being racist/ableist(Yes, I'm sorry to use this unironically)against a guy whose existence and ability to perceive the world relies on his vampirism.
Also it's not really Durkon but some weird evil being in service of Hel whose existence is made up of Durkon's one angsty moment during his teenage years. Or that was a lie from evil Durkon to make good Durkon feel bad.
Also V can't determine the difference between his Familiar's feelings of jealousy and suspicion with his feelings of surprise, fear, pain?
Also there aren't any weird rules about what Evil Cleric's can do in the godsmoot?
There's not a "You're disqualified if you kill someone" clause
There's no security measures taken with a fucking Vampire sitting around
What if Xkyon showed up and he just so happened to be a high level cleric of Xykon?
Are they going to not take any precautions against a god damn Lich sitting around?
Why didn't Tiamat send a Red Dragon?I miss Malack
>>44949717
>Whining about word count seems so pathetic when there's so many other perfectly reasonable things to whine about in OOTS
While you do raise a good point about other comics use of words I think it its still a valid complaint about OOTS because so many of the words are entirely redundant. I think peoples complaint about the 'words words words' isn't entirely based on their volume but rather on the fact that his one dimensional characters don't use them to say anything.
Rich is a comically bad writer. His plot is a muddled mess of self congratulatory bullshit based on a weak grasp of classical myth and loaded with ironic references to lazy narrative conventions which he then relies on non stop.
His characters are one dimensional who don't develop. In place of character development he has stuff happen to them, need Haley to be sympathetic? She's been secretly saving money for her dad this whole time! Need to change up the party dynamic? The dwarf got turned into a vampire! His characters don't grow in an organic manner as a result of their experiences, introspection and facing tough decisions, shit happens to them, they comment on it and it might get referenced 20 strips and two years later.
First good pages ever since Roy going nuclear. Actually made me chuckle.
The speed of release is what is harming the comic the most though. Pacing just dies in webcomic time.
>>44945428
>pottericus mimicus
George, is that you?
>>44956464
Belkar has real char dev, well made, while he is faking char dev. He became more empathetic to others because he now has a nearly healthy relation to his pet.
The villains are fucking cool. Redcloak and Xykon, are very good characters.
Elan is not anymore a full joke character with child-like reaction, because of the 2 arcs he had. One to become competent, one to be more mature.
Haley saving money for his dad is here since she received the rançon letter. His char dev was more about thrust.
Nah, the real problem here is often what >>44956721 referenced.
I personally had for habit to read some comics magazine, like soleil or pilote and know that the "a page a week" is kinda bad for the medium. Also, Wordswordswords is nothing compared to some franco-belgian comic like Largo winch or Black and Mortimer. If we only judge the chapter, as a whole rather than page per page, it's really okay.
I mean, do you remember Battlestar Galactica: Blood and Chrome ? the story was kinda good, but there HAD to be fight/action every 10 fucking minutes. because the episode were of ten fucking minutes. This felt artificial as fuck. The "developpement/exposition" part of a story is a wall of text, and we need to deal with it.
>His plot is a muddled mess of self congratulatory bullshit based on a weak grasp of classical myth and loaded with ironic references to lazy narrative conventions which he then relies on non stop.
Yes, but don't D&D IS a bunch of "bullshit based on a weak grasp of classical myth" ? I agree, the complete copy pasta of a simplified pantheon is kinda shit. But at least we already KNOW that Thor will be a mighty drunkard/warrior god, and same for the others.
>>44956721
He's depressed about his dead end career. He used to think that OOTS would be "his early work", but now he knows that this is all he has and will have to get a job eventually.
So he alternates between stalling so it doesn't end, and being too depressed about his prospects to write/draw.
>>44956989
At least he makes something off of it. I'm stuck between shoddy writefagging and dead-end jobs myself so I'm jelly.
>>44956989
I know this is probably a joke, but it could be true and that sucks. Like many aspiring writers he probably dreamed big, but knowing that this shitty stick figure comic will be his 15 minutes of fame, that he'll be a one hit wonder with that one hit not even being that big, must suck. I hope he'll get over it and write something else that performs relatively well.
>>44954695
Don't forget that she'd also just been betrayed by her master and mentor, by extension losing everything in her life (position, belongings, etc.).
>>44946055
I wonder what /tg/ would think of BLAME!
>>44957293
I think we generally like it a lot, for the aesthetic, and how it manages to make characters you can like despite the lack of communication (though I'd like a *bit* more).
Made an edit.
>>44956989
>raise enough money that properly invested and living frugally he doesn't have to work
>he can use that time to pursue anything he wants as long as he farts out a two steps above stick figures comic out every week? two weeks? month? Does anyone care if they're die-hard fan enough?
lol at pity party for a dude who wins a lotto ticket and then might feel that life is a bit shallow. it's as shallow as you are, dude. Imagine how much free time you'd have in his place to do nothing but write more. Hmm.. oh, I don't have to imagine. It'd be about 40 hours a week!
>>44950259
Actually, Gel uses Durkula to make a plan B by draining all the earth worshipping (and technically unprotected by Moot rules) clerics at the Moot, giving her a stronger clergy than she had before as he takes each by surprise, and from there it's backups of backups.
>>44945543
>no one gives a fuck about Redcloak
No, anon, I give a fuck about Redcloak. No one gives a fuck about YOU.
>tfw no explosive runes
>>44959282
Classy
>>44948534
Should keep the "bad news"
