No More Prophet Edition
>RESOURCES
http://www.mtgcommander.net
>Official Site: Contains deck building rules and the current ban list.
http://www.tappedout.net
>Deck List Site: You can search for decks that other people have made. Authors often have comments that explain their deck’s strategy and card choices.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh
>Another resource for commander discussion; they have an entire forum dedicated to discussing decks. People often make primers, which go into detail about how they built and play their deck.
http://www.edhrec.com/
>Statistically see what everyone else puts in their commander decks based on what is posted to the internet.
http://manabasecrafter.com/
>Find out what lands you can add to your deck, sorted by category, based on a chosen Commander’s colour identity.
CARD SEARCHING:
http://gatherer.com
>Official search site. Current for all sets.
http://www.magiccards.info
>Unofficial, but has GOAT search interface.
First for black husbando best husbando.
>>44862961
So it's a given there's gonna be a werewolf commander, right?
Can't wait for Zendikar block to be over.
>>44863034
Don't get your hopes up too soon. It's probably likely, but who knows man.
I'm more wondering if they'll bring back flip cards, cause they were pretty sweet.I would cream myself if hey made a legendary Immerwolf or Huntsmaster though
>>44862961
So...I'm a Kraj player(RIP: Prophet of Kruphix), and a lil confused by the new mana rules.
If I have vivid grove/creek, city of brass, mana confluence, etc, can I make mana of other red, black, white colors to activate abilities of something like Riku or Cromat?
>>44861996
Really, you'd be best cutting white and another color to run a relevant commander, rather than trying to do five-color. Jeleva has worked fairly well for me, and Animar is probably really good as well.
>>44863233
As I understand it, exactomundo
>>44863034
Remember that werewolves don't exist any more on innistrad. They're those horrible wolfir things now.
I'm relatively new to edh, and magic in general, and have been extremely interested in Tazri. I want to build her like a legend super friends deck, with the ally Zendikar legends instead of walkers like a standard friends deck. It fits the story on point and I think it'll be a ton of fun.
My issue is that I am intimidated by rainbow mana. Is there a way to make a consistent mana base for this that won't cost $300 alone? I want my deck to be casual, I don't want to have to need every fetch land and shock land in the game.
So, what are you replacing your Prophet with in your UGx decks?That's not Seedborn Muse
>>44863570
On a budget, you'll do pretty well with the 15 dual lands that come in tapped and gain you a life - the cycles that include Kazandu Refuge and Blossoming Sands. The tri-lands from Alara and Khans block are also good. Some of my friends are also fans of the Vivid lands. Between those and some five-color lands like Command Tower and Reflecting Pool, you should be able to build a playable 5-color manabase without fetches and shocks.
>>44863570
Guildgates, tarkir taplands, and lots of mana rocks. You'll be slow as sin but whatever
>>44862961
>No More Prophet
Aw man interesting stuff always happens when I'm gone, what did I miss?
>>44863570
A set of the 10 Shocks is something you at least need to invest in anyway in the event you decide to take the deck apart later, so go for that.
Then 10 Trilands. Then find at least 5 lands that produce any type of mana (Command Tower, City of Brass, Mana Confluence if you have it, the Ally Encampment and something else) then fill the rest with basics or anything that doesn't etb tapped, preferably focus more on green to help out on mana-fixing like Cultivate and junk
>>44863726
Prophet is banned, rule 4 is gone, and we use regular mulligan rules now
>>44863570
>>44863653
>>44863726
>>44863742
I rarely see people recommending Karoos but they are fantastic if your meta is light on Strip Mines and Wastelands. I pretty much always play them because I'm consistently the only one at the table playing land destruction, and a karoo-land into Cataclysm just feels great: one more mana in play, one more land in hand to rebuild.
Also they're cheap as fuck.
So, probably a stupid question but it's never really come up until now, if I have multiple 'sac a creature at upkeep' effects can I sac the same creature to each effect?
Or, probably a better question to ask would be, do those effects use the stack? Can I sac a Spincrusher to Contamination with Mike out and before I sac for Call to the Grave remove the +1/+1 and sac him again?
>>44863834
I've never cared for them personally to be honest?
>>44863834
Karoos look good for landfall and nothing else. Especially the ones specifying an untapped land. That's damn near but not quite strictly worse than just a basic at that point. Very close.
>>44863570
Painlands and Checklands are cheaper alternatives. You could also run the panoramas. Ideally you don't want a third of your land base to come into play tapped so don't run common/uncommon two color lands that do. Panoramas at least tap for colorless and can search in a pinch.
The Tri-lands from Khans and Alara are good but don't run all of them.
You could also run Signets or Mirrodin Talismans.
Green ramp like Farseek, Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, and Explosive Vegetation can grab basics.
Expedition Map to grab non basics.
Vivid lands are cheap.
The trick is to see what colors your deck is primarily running, and create the mana base accordingly.
So what card are you guys going to whine about now that Prophet is banned? I mean, Sol Ring/Mana Crypt are still in the format and unlikely to go anywhere, but anyone got any other contenders?
>>44863859
At the beginning of your upkeep, both Contamination and Call to the Grave's triggered abilities will go on the stack. Since they would trigger simultaneously, you choose in which order to add them to the stack. Then they resolve in the usual last-in-first-out stack order, one at a time.
You can't sac one creature to two effects any more than you can use one dollar to buy two $1 candy bars. But if you sac a creature with Undying, then its own "when this dies" ability will trigger, going on top of the stack and therefore resolving before anything already on the stack. That gives you a NEW creature, which you could certainly sac to another effect.
>>44863754
>we use regular mulligan rules now
I've always just used partial Paris, wasn't even aware commander had it's own version. What was it? What is it now?
I think it's ironic that wizards is trying to make the new kozilek easier to cast and the people in charge of commander are making it harder while simultaneously making other deck types more viable. Maybe a mind control deck can finally be interesting.
So are your playgroups going to seamlessly switch over to the new (not new) mulligan style? Or do you think there will be people who still want partial?
>>44863973
Of course you'd never run the monocolored karoos, that goes without saying. When we talk about karoos, we're talking about the dual-colored ones, not the cycle that the actual card Karoo was a part of.
>good for landfall and nothing else
Any deck that runs shit like Exploration, Burgeoning, Azusa or Oracle of Mul Daya gets good value out of karoo lands. Also, as previously stated, they pair really well with things like Cataclysm, or any MLD for that matter. You get to progress your manabase while bouncing a land back to hand to rebuild after you cast your MLD.
>>44864043
Partial paris WAS the commander version, but they just changed the mulligan rule to the normal 60-card one - that is, throw them all back and draw a new hand minus 1, and if you go to 6 cards or below you can scry one. I also believe they specify that the first one is free in multiplayer.
>>44864088
Hey, I run Jungle Basin in Azusa. I'd kill to be able to run the four green Ravnica bouncelands, though. Honestly I'd probably run all ten, even though six of them would effectively only make colorless mana (with or without rule 4).
>>44863570
Not trying to be rude, but you should just call it zendikar legends instead of superfriends- superfriends is already a well defined thing.
>>44864110
The first mulligan being free in multiplayer is a wizards of the coast rule, not edh. Thats any 3 or more player game of magic gets free first mulligans.
>>44864130
Yeah, I guess having Azusa as your commander is sort of an exception where the extra land drops actually make monocolored karoos worth it.
>>44864038
Ok, that's what I thought. For some reason I was thinking those didn't use the stack or some shit.
>>44864110
That's perfect, I like Vancouver anyways.
Also I misspoke, we used Paris with a freebie. Partial took too long and the game went from being about playing to mulling. The few times we remembered to try Vancouver we liked it, so I'm really pleased with this update. 3/3, knocked it out of the park.
>>44864088
>you'd never run the monocolored karoos, that goes without saying
Yeah those are weird. Dunno why they were printed, maybe wizards was seeing if they could print something with less demand than a basic land.
>>44863241
Can confirm. Jeleva a beast. Easily my best deck. Took 6 turns in a row on T3 last time I played her.
>>44864057
Unfortunately, my group just free mulligans. I only mulligan when I have no lands because I don't want to rely on shitty mulligans. I'm trying to get them to switch, and I think with this new rule, it will help out some.
>>44864223
It's baffling that they put the monocolored karoos in the 2014 EDH precons. I mean, when you open a deck like Daretti to see it has 47 fucking lands in it, and one of those is a karoo, you kind of have to wonder how scared they were of us being mana-screwed.
Y'all play French? I was looking at some top decks the other day, and noticed I happen to own like 90% of the Sidisi reanimator combo list. Thinking about building the rest.
>they actually banned prophet
well damn, guess i need to find a seedborn muse then, i pretty much only want the untap
flash is nice but i rather like instants forever
>>44864716
>Deadeye Navigator remains untouched
I swear hes some faggot on the ban committes pet card.
For those interested:
For those interested:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/663329-r-competitiveedh-is-hosting-a-tournament
>>44864866
>"some faggot"
>>44864903
I thought we told you to leave?
>>>/reddit/
>>44864903
>http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/663329-r-competitiveedh-is-hosting-a-tournament
Stop advertising you cuck. And go back to reddit.
>>44864957
>>44864948
please stop giving the tripfag attention. either ignore it or reply to it without recognizing its identity. this is not helping.
>>44864980
>reply to it without recognizing its identity.
And make him feel like just any other poster? What next, send him a card and a fruit basket to welcome him into our community?
>>44865028
then ignore it. attention is how they feed. besides y'all were saying "Drop the trip or go back to reddit" and it did.
>>44865107
I can't speak for anyone else but I was never going to be satisfied with that thing just dropping the trip. Cancer doesn't stop being a problem if it disguises itself as healthy cells.
>>44864145
I made this same mistake too. The commander rule actually overrode all other mulligan rules in commander games, so no free mulligan.
That isn't to say most people didn't use the free mulligan with the partial paris anyways, it just wasn't an official rule. Doesn't matter any more fortunately.
So apart from the Prophet ban and now using the standard mulligan, what changed?
>>44864223
>Partial took too long
Really?
I felt partials actually sped up the mulligan process.
>>44865396
Most groups I've seen gave you a free partial paris. Even competitive / cutthroat groups. Did they not realize how fucking ridiculous that was? You can exchange any number of cards in your first seven for fresh draws. FOR FREE. That was absurd. Like holy fuck I can't believe how absurd that was. You could completely change your hand based on one or two cards. Have Burgeoning? Ship everything that isn't lands or Cultivate, YOLO. Have Sol Ring and/or Mana Crypt? Ship all but two lands, go fast! Have a card that's bad against your opponents, or that you want to remain in your deck like Craterhoof? CHANGE IT FOR SOMETHING ELSE! IT'S FREE!
God I hated partial paris and partial paris first one free even worse. This is the best change this format has seen in recent memory, the new rule is objectively better in every single way.
What exactly was rule 4, that mana producers could only produce mana of your commander's color identify?
Does that rule going away mean that If I have a GB Commander, I can use Mana Confluence to tap for U, W, or R?
>>44864866
Deadeye is actually not as bad as I used to think he was.
He's powerful, don't get me wrong, but he loses a lot of his power when people realize how the soulbound trigger works. He'll get another ETB, but somebody should hopefully be holding removal and he'll be gone.
>>44865462
>What exactly was rule 4, that mana producers could only produce mana of your commander's color identify?
Specifically that if you would add something outside your commander's color identity, it becomes colorless instead. This is going away because otherwise colorless mana is too easy to produce and you can abuse the new eldrazi.
>Does that rule going away mean that If I have a GB Commander, I can use Mana Confluence to tap for U, W, or R?
Yup
>>44865416
You can generate off colors now as well.
>>44865457
Honestly, it wasn't that bad as long as you trusted the people you were playing with.
I agree it was too easy for a doucher to abuse it though.
>>44865474
>Deadeye is actually not as bad as I used to think he was.
I have to agree with that, I still hate the card but it's become obvious that it excels in lower-powered metas, and that its value diminishes as your meta gets more cutthroat. I used to overrate the card because I was the only one in my group running sufficient instant speed interaction, or knowing how to interact with Soulbond, so it always fell on me to answer the DEN, through counterspell backup, multiple times if it got body doubled or reanimated, it honestly got really tedious and I was sick and tired of the card as a result.
Other players in my group have improved since, our meta's power level has increased and we've become more interactive, DEN isn't as much of a problem as it used to be. Still a really annoying card and I'm not looking forward to that monowhite devoid DEN from OGW popping up everywhere. I expect people to call for a ban of that card in the coming year, it will be the new card everyone argues over.
>>44865529
>I'm not looking forward to that monowhite devoid DEN from OGW popping up everywhere
I haven't been keeping up with the new cards. What card is this?
>>44864057
We have been letting people have one free chance to reveal hand and toss back ALL nonland cards, after that it's the regular toss it back and draw one less.
It's not perfect, but it stops the worst hand sculpting and it's pretty quick.
>>44865588
3W 3/3 Eldrazi with "2C: Blink target creature and put it back into play tapped".
>>44865529
>monowhite devoid DEN
Im honestly shocked it and Palinchron have managed to evade bannings for so long.
>>44865588
This. Things to note:
1. It doesn't protect itself.
2. It's always active, you don't need to resolve an ETB effect before activating it.
3. It fucking costs 2W.
4. You can use it to tap blockers, nuke creature tokens, strip auras and equipments, end control magic effects.
Overall, I think this card will be a bigger problem than DEN. Sure, it dies to removal, but for a 3-drop, that's not a huge problem.
>>44865619
Why would people want that banned? How is that worse than Deadeye?
>>44865661
This >>44865656
Also, it's considered colorless, so any effect related to colors are ineffective and it's way cheaper than DEN.
>rule 4 is gone
Thank god, that was the stupidest rule in the format. Good riddance.
I can't count the number of times I've seen someone steal or been given another person's permanent and not been able to pay activation costs because of that rule. And now we can pay for someone else's Hive Mind + Pact if we need to.
>>44865656
I'd throw this into my Anafenza list without a second thought if I had more sources of colorless mana. Then again, even without colorless mana, it's at the very worst a colorless 3/3 for 2W, and it doesn't have to provide value right away, it's still good if you only draw a painland two turns later to start flickering shit.
>>44865656
You make some good points, but I would be surprised if any significant amount of people ask for it to be banned.
>>44865656
>>44865727
>in Anafenza
Holy shit this with Containment Priest jesus christ
>>44865736
It has the potential to make people cry for bans, the question is whether enough people will play it for that to happen. And since EDH players are huge memesters who can't come up with any original ideas, it will depend on how many articles and primers end up praising this card.
>>44865785
He seems like so much value and is extremely versatile
He'll actually be going into all three of my main decks (Vish Kal, Aurelia, Reaper King).
Is it as douche thing to do to kill niv misset? Like to remove him on the board.
>>44865867
The nice thing is since it's a nice 3/3 colorless for 2W, it doesn't require a whole lot to be worth including in your decks. Do you run at least 5 cards with good ETBs, like Sun Titan? Would you like to save your creatures from removal? Fuck up with Voltron commanders? Destroy tokens? Did you answer yes to any one or two of those questions? Then Eldrazi Displacer is at the very least good enough for your deck.
All of this supposing you have ways to generate colorless, which painlands do fairly well. Honestly though, I'm hoping for filterland reprints, and ideally fetchlands that say: T, sacrifice <cardname>: Search your library for a Plains or Wastes card and put it into play, so I get to play extra copies of my shocks / battlelands, as well as a singleton wastes in decks that need it.
>>44865656
This thing's pretty good with that new Reflection Mage, too.
A handful of mana and you can wipe an entire board until the next turn.
>>44865883
I doubt anyone would ever really blame you for removing Niv Mizzet unless something else on the board is threatening to win immediately.
As long as you're talking about the old Niv anyway. The new Niv isn't as worrisome.
>>44865656
I'm always wary of any card that right away seems good enough to go in every single deck I run that has the right colors. It's a perfect fit for Aurelia aggro, Anafenza hatebears and Ephara control. That seems too good across the board.
>>44865937
Not a fan of Reflector Mage but I think I'll like it with Dualcaster Mage. Here's the thing though. We'll most often see it alongside Mystic Snake in Bant goodstuff lists, and I'm not looking forward to that.
>>44865944
Fucked that one up I meant niv missix the new c15 one
>>44865977
They are going for $6 on starcity. Do you guys think the price is only going to go up?
>>44866018
Depends if they are standard staples or not.
>>44866017
He can go off fairly easy as well. I wouldn't think twice about somebody removing him.
>>44866018
I expect it to spike in the coming month, then stabilize around 8-10$ later on. Then it's going to get printed in an event deck or duel deck and go down from there. It's basically going to be this set's Courser of Kruphix, price-wise.
>>44865634
Palinchron was a really stupid design mistake. I hate it and roll my eyes any time I see it played.
That being said, i doubt it'll ever see a banning.
>>44866104
Palinchron isn't popular enough to get banned, and that's basically all it boils down to for the rules committee. They have to hate a card on a personal level, first and foremost, and face it often enough in their metas to grow sick and tired of it.
>>44865656
Pic related has existed for a long time. That being said, the new Eldrazi is one color, beefier, and has instant gratification.
>>44865696
This is the biggest boon that it has. It gets around things like swords and Animar.
>>44865747
This is what I want to do, though I'll probably do it in Ayli as part of my exile.dec. Truth be told, I actually prefer Hallowed Moonlight because you can't kill it in response, it hits tokens, and cantrips.
>>44866285
More difficult color identity requirements, higher activation cost and 1/1 body means Mistmeadow Witch is only good in blink-themed decks, nothing else. Very low floor, high ceiling. Whereas Eldrazi Displacer has a much higher floor and quite possibly a higher ceiling.
>>44866144
I actually don't think that's how they operate.
>>44866285
I think the main reason Mistmeadow isn't played more has a lot to do with her ability being pretty sub par.
It's good to use on your opponents stuff to clear the path but it you want to use it on your own stuff it would mostly be to dodge removal and not for the ETB abuse that Deadeye and DENdrazi would be used for. Also that 4 cost is a lot of mana.
In other words, useful but for different reasons.
>>44865431
It could have just been because we weren't used to it.
Do you actually prefer partial mulligans? It feels too easy to exploit personally.
>>44866384
Anon's just butthurt they won't ban <insert oft-complained about card here>.
>>44866490
Not the same anon but I never thought partials took too long and they were what I was taught when I first learned commander years ago.
It could be that my playgroup wasn't that indecisive and that yours was or we just knew our decks better or etc but I never had our mulliganing take longer than a couple minutes including shuffling.
>>44866490
I preferred partial paris, I felt it sped up the mulligan process a lot. Mind you, I also play a rather linear deck that leans heavily on its commander and doesn't have any two-card combos (except for Grinning Ignus + Helm of Awakening I guess, but that eventually runs out of red mana). So I liked it.
>>44866490
I liked it when I was just playing with my buddies and none of us were trying to abuse it and were just trying to get a playable hand.
It's easy to abuse and I wouldn't feel comfortable using it with people who you don't trust as much.
I do like the suggestion of setting the hands aside until you're done with the mulligan so there won't be so much shuffling.
>>44866565
I feel like that's how it should be in EDH. Period. That way, it makes mulligans more thoughtful. If you take one, you know you're not going to see any of those cards again, so you can't keep searching for two pieces of a combo unless you happen to get both.
>>44866629
I'm OK with this plan, it stops me having to shuffle my double sleeved deck more than twice.
>>44866384
>>44866499
It's not how they explain it but the underlying reasons become fairly apparent once you've read their articles and updates for a while. If a card isn't problematic in their meta, they are just going to file this as a problem with player intent, where people are ruining their meta on purpose and it doesn't happen in -their- meta where everyone plays for fun, so it's not the card's fault.
Whereas other cards are not a problem, have never been, but still get the banhammer because the RC is sick and tired of it, and they make up some truly mind-boggling reasons for why the ban was necessary. See: Painter's Servant. They literally said Painter's Servant / Grindstone made up the top tier of the combo options when justifying the ban on (formerly) Grindstone.
Though today, for the first time in quite a while, they posted a rules update that makes sense. So let's rejoice. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, it seems.
>>44866629
But doesn't that make it easier to find single cards?
This lets you get upwards of 25 chances to find sol ring if my math is right.
>>44866672
>>44866640
You posted twice.
I mean, I can see why you'd think that, I just don't agree.
>>44866672
>Hermit Druid remains unbanned because if you're using it to combo off, you're breaking the game on purpose and the rules aren't made to accomodate the type of environment you play in.
>Painter's Servant is banned because you can use it to somewhat break the game on purpose.
I honestly don't care about either card, I don't face Hermit Druid on a regular basis and I wouldn't play Painter's Servant even if it got unbanned, it's just sad to see how inconsistent their banlist criteria are.
>>44866652
I know how you feel. My Hanna is doubled in KMC, and frankly, I think I'm going to change them to DS Mattes. They shuffle better. My KMCs feel dry and are weird to shuffle, whereas I have yet to have a problem with the Mattes.
>>44866751
I'm slightly drunk and not a native english speaker, I fixed the post because some parts made no sense due to awful syntax.
>>44866753
Painter's Servant makes it bonkers easy to break the game; you have to actively build around Hermit Druid or it's just a body with an interesting ability.
>>44866739
if the card isn't in your opener, or the next 6, or the next 5
You can't really go to 4 for just sol ring unless you have a commander that can guaranteed draw you cards, even then
So that's 18-22
25 would be going to 3
>>44866763
I was having the same thought earlier this week, actually. I picked up some DS mattes for a drafting kit - 15 of each basic land pre-sleeved, leftover sleeves for the deck itself - and they've been amazing. My KMC sleeved Purph deck feels weird by comparison.
>>44866773
>bonkers easy to break the game
Common culprits are Grindstone and Iona. If Grindstone, you are intentionally tutoring for and assembling a combo, you are the type of player the rules do not cater for and any issue that arises from your deck or playstyle should be handled by your playgroup, as the RC so often likes to repeat.
If Iona, you are assembling a combo that includes a 9 CMC piece, which will either require additional pieces for entombing / reanimation, or be very slow, which is fine by combo standards. Also, you are pretty much guaranteed to be doing this combo intentionally, which again brings us back to the idea of player intent and the RC by their own admission not tailoring the rules around tryhard combo players.
>>44866772
Ah, that's fair. I mean, our local EDH meta pretty much gave up on the format after a while, so I mostly play EDH meta-less, and I pretty much agree with their line of thinking, at least insofar as I see the game.
>>44865937
>got reflector and eldrazi displacer in my 2hg
>only got the displacer once and couldnt play it
post em' also what do you think about rule 4 being taken out. I was going to build a jund eldrazi deck and use that rule to help me produce colorless mana. Guess now I will have to have actual sources of colorless mana, but it will open up some new play styles.
My friend keeps getting butthurt about betrayals and being targeted, should I stop inviting him over to play?
>>44866793
So what you're saying is that it isn't possible unless it is.
I get your point but it doesn't refute the one I'm trying to make. Going through 1/4 of your deck doesn't sit right with me, even if it does drop you down to 1-3 cards.
>>44866911
I disagree with their line of thinking but I can respect that they have a vision that differs from mine. Where I start to find issue is when they become so inconsistent with their criteria and regularly contradict themselves when discussing bans. If power level isn't a factor for them, if format balance doesn't matter, and if their criteria of "player intent" doesn't hold up to any kind of scrutiny, what's left? It seems like the only reasonable thing to assume is that they're tailoring the banlist to their personal likes and dislikes and to the things they're tired of seeing in their metas.
>>44866984
Going to 3 cards with shuffling is actually very very statistically close to not shuffling
You're gonna see almost as far into your deck if you mulligan 5 times
>>44866934
Meh, if I ever go back to stealing people's shit I'll be able to use them more to their fullest extent.
>>44867014
P O S T Vorel.
>>44867029
neverI mean later
>>44866934
You have some pretty cancerous shit in there (I get it, I play some cancer too), but your collection seems pretty alright overall. I'm mostly curious about your Ezuri. I'm working on mine but I feel like I'm not finding enough playable elves. Do you have a list online?
>>44866873
I think a more relevant point is that there's little reason to play Painter's Servant other than broken combos.
Hermit Druid, on the other hand, is a perfectly viable card even if you don't break it (compare to Journeyer's Kite, which people do play).
Not saying I agree with it, but that's probably the RC's reasoning.
Someone convince me from building a Bosh deck, I've already got a Mono-Red deck and I don't think I need another (Before you ask it's Krenko)
>>44867267
Don't build a Bosh deck.
>>44867267
Bosh is too expensive to be a viable commander. Build Daretti instead.
>>44867253
>little to no reason to play it other than broken combos
Well putting aside the fact that this would be a perfect argument for the RC -not- to touch this card, since they don't typically care about cards that are only used for broken combos (see: You're breaking the game on purpose, you know what you're doing, it's up to each individual playgroup to police this type of behavior), I don't even agree with the premise. In a deck like Daretti for instance, it can be used to turn off Swords of X&Y, improve your hate cards like red blasts, or your artifacts like Caged Sun. In something like Animar, it's a low CMC creature that powers up your commander and gives it protection from everything. You'd obviously play it in Jaya Ballard. I could think of a ton of situations where you'd play Painter's Servant without having it be part of a combo.
>>44867267
Bosh is bad.
>>44866827
Exactly. The feel almost, idk, gritty? Stiff?
>>44866934
>Chandra is now Jeska voltron/control
>Nahiri is Kalemne Voltron
Really thinking about dropping Newzuri. He has been shockingly underwhelming.
>>44866753
Painter's Servant *accidentally* breaks the game too easily.
>>44867537
Explain how.
>>44863653
Add maze's end if you're running the gates. May as well get that wincon
>>44863570
Well, if you use all 10 Guildgates, you can toss Maze's End in as a one in a million alt wincon. It will be worth it for your friends' faces the one time it actually works.
>>44867609
All is dust and Ugin are a couple examples.
>>44867511
Can I see your Hanna list? I wanted to make a Hanna deck but all I could find was Pillow Forts.
What are some good planswalkers for s/he? I imagine, and so does EDHREC does to, that the creatures into planswalkers one are good but what else? And as for planswalkers, are you guys ok with running 2 or possibly more of the same named ones? I personally dont like it but for alesha, thinking of having to lilina's since I love vess and to me she is a black staple and the flip one works so good with alesha.
>>44867712
Forgot pic
>>44866672
You know they don't have one monolithic meta right?
>>44867712
I always forget the picture
>>44867728
wast funny the first time
>>44867645
I don't believe this qualifies as breaking the game. If it did, then Decree of Annihilation and Jokulhaups would be breaking the game.
I also struggle to call either of these accidental. If you run them in the same deck, you know what you're doing.
>>44867712
Jesus, man.
>>44867323
>>44867388
>>44867457
Alright, that works. Gonna go work on either Anafenza or Sun Quan next then.
Also why did Valakut's price spike so much?
>>44867778
You don't even need to be running them in the same deck. Anyone running then has the same effect, and they are pretty popular cards.
I run an 8.5 Tails deck, I'd love to see it unbanned, but I can understand why it's probably never going to be.
>>44867738
I know, which doesn't defeat any part of that argument. Their experience is still limited to the metas they play in, which they intentionally keep at a moderate power level, and they are quick to dismiss any meta that differs from theirs by saying their rules are not made to accomodate X, Y or Z type of meta.
They obviously can't take into consideration every meta on the face of the planet but their sample size of metas is way too homogeneous due to them fostering casual environments with likeminded people and mostly ignoring any comment or information that comes from outside this safe zone they built for themselves.
>>44867867
Do you have any sort of list for zurgo? I'm also trying to build him
>>44867896
>mostly ignoring any comment or information that comes from outside this safe zone they built for themselves.
This is the part I don't understand. Why do you think that? There is like zero reason to think that.
>official suggestion rather than an official rule
It's like they don't think pickup games are a thing or something
>>44867888
>You don't even need to be running them in the same deck. Anyone running then has the same effect, and they are pretty popular cards.
And everyone's going to know what happens if they cast All is Dust while an opponent's Painter's Servant is on the table. So it is no more accidental than someone casting Planar Cleansing while someone has Living Plane out. Or just someone casting Jokulhaups, lest we forget this is a card that is both legal and popular in this format.
I just don't see how Painter's Servant is ever likely to "accidentally" break the game. We can come up with a million situations where it combos with something in a "problematic" way but, bottom line is, it was banned for its interactions with Grindstone and Iona, neither of which is accidental, neither of which is problematic. Why was it banned? In all likelihood because it got too popular and the RC were tired of seeing it, going so far as to make the laughable claim that Painter Stone was the top tier of combo decks in EDH based on no evidence whatsoever.
>>44867978
Because we have seen the RC, time and time again, rebuke comments, suggestions or criticism with "This is a meta problem / Your meta sounds too competitive / We don't cater to the type of meta you play in".
>>44867990
>planar cleansing
And by that I mean literally any wrath other than planar cleansing. I'm drunk.
>>44867986
I don't see the problem.
>>44867867
I'm guessing Valakut spiked because of Scapeshift decks in Modern now that Twin is banned.
>>44868043
>planar cleansing
>And by that I mean literally any wrath other than planar cleansing.
I was briefly extremely confused.
>>44868021
My favorite is their response to people who like braids.
Basically something along the lines of "well, if you like braids, we highly recommend you consider a new format"
>>44867990
Well painter's stone can go in literally every deck as a two card win con. That's pretty annoying.
I also don't remember them saying it was the top tier combo. Do you have a source on that?
>>44867986
Very basic thing to know about the RC: they make the official rules but they don't own up to it, and they also don't want anyone else to do the official rules for them. They want to remain in control while having literally no accountability for anything, and they only follow their own rules when it suits them.Sheldon played for quite some time in a league that banned Sol Ring before turn 3 (or 4, I don't remember). And he uses all his experience in that environment to explain to us how Sol Ring isn't a problem.
>>44868071
>play on cockatrice
"Are we using the rule where you set aside your mulliganed hand?"
>"Nah"
>"Sure"
>"Eu não falo o seu porco Inglês , o que diabos você está falando ?"
>>44868021
I don't think that happens add often as you're suggesting, but every time I've seen them say that, they usually had a point.
>>44868109
This had been discussed to death, but him saying that the people who are usually drawn to braids might not be the best fit for this format wasn't out of line whatsoever.
>>44868133
They also have access to MTGO Commander for reasoning.
Mind you, MTGO Commander is a super gimped version of the real thing, because everyone taps out every turn unless they have a trick or countermagic IN HAND, so everything's super formulaic and obvious.
>>44868109
Don't have the pic myself, but I'm sure the anon who does is around.
That was a bit of a bullshit thing to see. From what I've seen, pretty much anyone who plays black would love to have black Braids back even if she's banned as a commander but apparently our simple minds can't comprehend 'SHE'S ONLY BANNED AS A COMMANDER GUYS.'
I think that's the thing that annoys me the most about the RC, especially since they unbanned Kokusho the combo piece and kept her banned.
>>44868177
This is a good meme.I wish I knew more brs to play edh with
>>44868126
>can go in literally every deck
They can, but shouldn't. This isn't like vintage where you can just throw vault/key in every deck basically for free. Painter's Servant is a very situational card on its own. Grindstone is quite simply a bad card on its own most of the time. There's a very real cost to running these two if all you intend to use them for is the combo. So they're pretty much only going to be threatening in dedicated combo decks that attempt to tutor them out ASAP.
>Do you have a source on that?
http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=794
"Because they come down so soon, they can be online before opponents can be expected to have disruption available... and make up the top tier of combo options."
And despite all my defense of Painter's Servant, I want to reiterate, I don't actually care about the card one way or another. What bothers me is that it perfectly illustrates how inconsistent and biased the RC are when it comes to the banlist, especially when you compare their posts about PS to posts about Hermit Druid. They basically decide what they're going to ban or unban and only after that decide why they're doing it and how they're going to justify it.
>>44868177
Always assume the official rule?
The point if setting aside your hand is to speed up shuffling. That seems unnecessary on cockatrice anyway.
>>44867679
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/hanna-ships-combo-and-control/
Sure thing. I tried pillowfort and it didn't do anything to help me win. It was a durdle fest that couldn't stop things like Mike/Trike or Purph. Now, it doesn't give a fuck.
>>44868225
You people still aren't over the fact that MTGO couldn't handle the two separate banlists, are you?
>>44868206
It absolutely was out of line for a format that is on the surface at least about inclusivity.
The RC promotes a toxic culture of name calling and labeling, and that comment to me is the epitome of everything wrong with the format.
I don't know if you've gotten into a game and seen it devolve into a heated shit flinging fest over what's casual and not, but if you have, you can attribute that directly to the RC.
>>44868223
People only do that in the first two, maybe three turns. I don't normally see anyone do it beyond that.
>>44868225
The funny part is Sheldor has been known to stuff as many grave pacts as possible in his decks. But Braids isn't banned because it could hit lands and that's bullying.Smokestack isn't banned, go figure. Probably a matter of player intent still.
>>44868223
Do they use the MTGO data? I've never seen them claim or even imply that.
>>44868282
>Braids isn't banned
*is banned. I either need to stop drinking, or stop posting. Or neither.
>>44868206
>stax is badwrongfun
Look, I know it's not for everyone but that's exactly the problem. Just because you don't enjoy it doesn't mean it shouldn't ever be played in a format. There's plenty of people who hate combo but you don't see them parading around saying that combo players should find a different format. Same for voltron or spellslinger.
About the only archetype we seem to be consistently hating on is chaos/grouphug.
Either way, this is Commander. This is supposed to be the format where you can play whatever type of deck you want using whatever jank cards you want in whatever shitty little deck you want. This is the format where you make things work, whether making it work is easy or hard. Where there's endless variety and infinite possibility.**unless it's badwrongfun to the RC, like stax
>>44868266
Nobody bats an eye when someone says a certain playstyle isn't a good fit in any other format. Do it in edh and people shit themselves apparently.
>>44868206
>the people who are usually drawn to braids might not be the best fit for this format
>people who want their opponents to sacrifice their shit might not be the best fit for the format
>black players might not be the best fit for the format
hueI am 90% sure Sheldon would play Braids in at least one list if it wasn't banned.
>>44868323
Actually, a lot of people get vocal about combo when someone's playing it
>>44868338
Because when people say it in other formats, they aren't criticizing your fun. They're saying you might not do well.
When people say it in EDH, they're telling you that your style of fun is bad, wrong, and not fun.
I wouldn't bat an eye if someone told me stax wasn't effective in competitive EDH.
I get annoyed when someone tells me that stax isn't appropriate for general EDH.
>>44868323
>About the only archetype we seem to be consistently hating on is chaos/grouphug.
And even then you rarely see people saying that they should be playing a different format. I hate these faggots, they're the scum of the earth, but if there's any format at all they should be playing their retarded bullshit in, it's EDH.
And that's basically the crux of the matter. EDH is the format in which you play whatever you want. Except if the RC doesn't like what you play.
The problem isn't with Braids, it's with cards like Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, and Mana Vault that allow cards like Braids to be played turn 2Braids is still pretty gross, but I'd take those rocks being banned over her any day of the week
>>44868378
True and true, and furthermore, banning her only as a commander greatly diminishes the consistent turn 2 Braids issue.
>>44868255
But that's not the reason and it's been refuted...?
>>44868282
I was actually going to mention Smokestack in my post but I thought it might be stretching. But they are both 4cmc cards that can cause people to sac lands. Smokestack is actually potentially worse in that it can cause them to sac more than one a turn.
I don't know man, just annoys me.
Could we have one thread without cancer?
Some people don't like the RC, some people are fine with them. Cool.
My problem with stax is that it usually takes forever to win the game and your just not doing anything, but not losing yet either. Playing against certain combo/control decks can be gay if its really un-interactive to play against.
>>44868405
Official reason: If you're playing Smokestack, you are intentionally ruining people's fun, whereas people might accidentally ruin people's fun with Braids.
Actual reason: People don't play Smokestack in any of the RC members' metas, because they use the "social contract" to keep it out.
>>44868378
As would every other rational individual.
>>44868426
The funny part is, this all started with the haters praising the RC for a good rules update, for once. Then someone went "They did good this time but it still pisses me off that [...]" and it all went downhill from there.I'm perfectly willing to stop shitting on the RC if they keep making rules updates as reasonable as this one. And bring back tuck.
>>44868356
Agreed, but you don't hear them spouting for the combo player to find a different format, which was what I was meaning. You especially don't hear the RC saying combo players should find a different format.
I'm not even a full on stax player but it's kinda annoying nonetheless cause it worries me on what they might ban in the future if that playstyle is the kind they most dislike.
I can at least take solace in the fact that they ban so few things that they're not likely to ban any of my toys, but who knows.
>>44863503
Going to need source on that
On a 1-10 scale, how big of an asshole am I?
>>44868434
Why didn't that apply to braids in their meta then?
You people who accuse them of only banning/unbanning according to their specific meta really don't make sense.
So, question
Does the loss of the mana production rule mean I can play Devoid eldrazi in Kozilek, assuming the only colored mana producers I have are rainbow producers or Urborg?
I just want to make a flavorful Eldrazi deck that includes the drones and whatnot, but unless Devoid counts for deck construction it looks like I'm stuck with a non-Eldrazi commander. And there's only three that really fit flavorfully, and of those one is monoblack and the other might as well be for Eldrazi purposes.
>>44868483
Boring/10
>>44868468
>You especially don't hear the RC saying combo players should find a different format.They sort of do. At least, they heavily imply that if you're consistently tutoring out combos, you're playing the format wrong.
>>44868498
No. It didn't effect the color identity rule at all.
>>44868483
you can't judge someone by their decks and nothing else
maybe a 5/10 because maybe you're trying to seem like an asshole?
>>44868484
This all goes back to their old reasoning about *acccidentally* versus *intentionally* ruining games. They social contract out stax players, they don't want black players to innocently play Braids as just another goodstuff/synergy card. This isn't hard to follow.
>>44868483
unoriginal, but not really an asshole.You should consider playing other formats because I've never seen a more boring list of decks. ;*)
Speaking of Hanna what are some good self-mill cards in her colors to help toolbox? Already have Thought Scour and trying out Deranged Assistant.
>>44868434
I really wish they would realize that their 'social contract' is bullshit. The people who play this game are too varied to be able to rely on that. In most every time I've played a pick up game everyone brings out their biggest guns first to size things up and then maybe backs off. But sometimes you just end up with a Johnny playing a bunch of Spikes or vice versa.
I'll give them this, it would be hard as shit to be the RC for a format like this and I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. But dodging the responsibility like that, even for a lazy ass like me, is just reprehensible.
>>44868430
I agree, but the same could be said for control.
Don't forget, Sheldon is exactly like the writers of Arrested Development, a creative genius, and he'd rather die than see the Spirit of EDH tainted by competitive players.
>>44868506
I suppose that's true, though that might have more to do with Sheldon's hatred of tutors than the combos themselves.
That said, you are right. They have said that.
>>44868517
Damn. Guess it's Kalitas, Ayli, or Bolas, then. And leaning towards Bolas, so I can use more than just black stuff.
>>44868551
>I really wish they would realize that their 'social contract' is bullshit
But it's not bullshit anon.It works for them. Why would they have to care about other metas?
>>44868426
This please.
>>44868584
I really want to say that there's no one that oblivious or short sighted, but I know I'm wrong.
God damn do I know I'm wrong.
>>44868581
It's not just Sheldon, another member of the RC, and I can't be assed to find the exact quote, pretty much said that this was a format to play Battlecruiser Magic in, and that if you weren't cool with the concept, you were playing it wrong or something.
>>44868109
My favorite was on the commanderin' podcast where Sheldon's response to a listener questioner was "because you touch yourself and that makes god mad"
>>44868675
Is that a thing that actually happened or are you making a snide comment about quotes without sources?
So are anybody's decks going to change at all now that rule 4 is gone?
I actually couldn't think of anything to change in my decks.
>>44868500
>>44868521
>>44868532
These are just my currently completed decks, brewing gisela, mirko vosk, thromok, and zur, though those ones are currently being limited by the fact I pay my own bills.
>>44868715
I once had a sen triplet's deck. I might rebuild it now.
>>44868715
If I ever get another copy of Dragonlord Silumgar I might remake my deck for him, would be great to actually use the abilities of all the stuff I steal now.
>>44868715
Honestly, I'm just going to remove Prophet from my two decks that run it and replace it with Bring to Light.
>>44868703
That actually happened
The question was
"Why does Boros suck in EDH" and it was 54 minutes into the podcast. His exact quote was "Because you touch yourself and God is angry."
>>44868639
It wouldn't surprise me honestly. Admittedly, I know that they PROBABLY only mean it in a semi joking manner but it's hard to bring that sort of thing out through text.
>the 4-5 autists who post their memedeck charts in every single fucking thread
Kill yourselves please.
>>44868782
I'd be skeptical but I heard and read so much dumb shit from Sheldon over the years nothing surprises me anymore. Honestly, if I'd never heard of him and was told the guy in charge of the format compared the work of the RC in turn to 1. a folk band making music 2. writing Arrested Development 3. motherfucking Citizen Kane 4. and more, I'd be telling them to stop making shit up.
>>44868798
I remember this happening quite clearly because it was the first time I'd heard EDH referred to as "Battlecruiser Magic".
>>44868703
With Sheldon "If you ain't green blue, well then fuck you" Menery, anything is possible.
>>44868836
Unfortunately I think they forget that they're, more or less, the 'owners/administrators' of an entire format and that, as such, they have to say things clearly, plainly, thoroughly, and most importantly without bias.
Unfortunately that last bit tends to get forgotten a lot in their attempt to be all chummy with people and try to be entertaining etc. Which leads to discussions like this of why they say such stupid and opinionated shit like it's fact that everyone should abide by.
>>44868897
They don't forget, they just don't care. They think of themselves as creative free spirits. They think they're artists, not merely "some guys in charge of a format for a game they didn't create". There's hope though: today's the first time I've seen them even imply that EDH isn't some beautiful and magical creation that transcends regular MtG formats.
What do you guys think of running multiple of the same name planswalkers?
>>44869078
Why would this be an issue in 100 card singleton decks?
>>44869078
I'd think nothing of it, might even do it intentionally if I was going for a theme thing or ifit's your waifu/husbando
>>44869067
That quote actually bothered me when I read it, and I don't even know why. It makes perfect sense and I'm all for rules-lite and streamlined stuff. But for some reason that just didn't sit right, maybe cause it makes it sound like they're going to slowly make EDH more and more like the other formats. I really don't know.
>>44867511
mind sharing your Lilly list? I've been playing 8Rack in modern and have been really into MBC lately
Only got Meren last Thursday, and I'm fucking loving it.
>>44869078
Planeswalkers die super quickly so it's not really a problem until you get to like the fourth or fifth version of someone. Like I wouldn't run literally every Jace and/or Liliana, and I'd maybe give a second thought to running Tamiyo or something instead of the third/fourth Jace, but other than that not really an issue.
>>44867867
buyout + interest in scapeshift but as a krenko player that runs 4 non-basics, blood moon is real solid (especially if you've got goblin king and matron/recruiter to tutor for him)
>>44869140
>makes it sound like they're going to slowly make EDH more and more like the other formats. I really don't know.
I don't think that's a bad thing, it has to be an upgrade over them treating the format like it's some kind of performance art. Them realizing that EDH is a regular MtG format brings them one step closer to managing it the way WotC manages their formats. I have my qualms with WotC and their banlist updates but at least their reasoning is fairly consistent and sensible.
>>44869144
the toolbox is real
If i put a spellskite on the stack at instant speed, I should be able to redirect counterspells to it :)
>>44869236
I don't understand this post. Are you making fun of someone? Is that an argument that happened here? Or are you pretending to be retarded?
>>44869255
can you tell me why i can't? :)
>>44869236
>tfw a friend of mine had one of those and a Karn
>tfw looking at their prices now and the decks I could put them in
>tfw I haven't talked to him in a couple years and he hasn't play in even longer and may have sold them all
How come none of the cards I got from all those years weren't expensive.
>>44869268
So it's pretending to be retarded then.
>>44868530
They have also straight up said that if you're a person who wants to play braids, you shouldn't be playing edh.
>>44868534
As a Hanna playerthe one who posted, I wouldn't self mill. She's not like Sharuum where she immediately drops down, brings something back, then flickers everything else back, too. Hanna comes in and had to tap to bring something to your hand, which is good in its own right.
If you want to have a more active role, I would say use cantrip enchantments and artifacts. Baubles, Runes of Protection, Font of Fortunes, Courier's Capsule, Skycloud Egg, Spell bombs, ect. Then of course, use abilities that allow you to Untap like Crab Umbra or Pemmin's Aura.
>>44869143
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/11-10-15-liliana/
Sure thing. I fucking love playing it. I need to slide in the Warping Wail I nabbed at the prerelease as well as Oblivion Strike. Debating cutting a Lili themed reanimate for Unearth, and I still need a Xhiou Dun.
>>44869268
Why are you typing like a retard?
>>44869268
Because if a permanent is on the stack you can't activate it's abilities as those abilities require it to be on the field to be activated, unless otherwise noted (ala Bridge from Below).
I mean, I know this is bait for a stupid argument but still, this one is super easy.
>>44868716
Oh, I completely forgot my semi retired, janky as all fuck brion deck, basically revivals and steal for a turns
>>44869268
Because unless otherwise stated, abilities function only on the battlefield or zones that the ability has to function in to be functional at all.
As an example:
>Activate this only when ~ is in your graveyard
This is an ability that functions in the graveyard.
>cost : return ~ from your graveyard to the battlefield.
This ability functions in the graveyard, and not the battlefield, since the ability only makes sense if the card is in your graveyard.
>U/P : change a target of target spell or ability to ~
This ability functions only in the battlefield, since nothing about it mentions another zone, and there is nothing about it that requires it to be in a zone to function.
The stack is a separate zone from the battlefield.
>>44869312
Thanks, looks like a lot of fun! How often do you get to play LV?
>>44869393
The post you're replying to has to be bait, you're wasting your time.
>>44863570
Pick two:
>Fast
>Cheap
>Reliable
>>44867867
Please collude with me on a manny and danny list.
I'm working on it, but having a hard time seeing how it could be anything above average. That being said I'm the kind of guy who looks and repeatable land flickering and think "finally, a use for looming spires"
>>44863616
Cephalid Constable in my Newzuri. Granted, it fills a totally different role, but I had needed to cut *something* for it since before the ban.
>>44863834
I like them in decks where I'm not always hitting my land drops and/or have ways to abuse them a little, like Derevi.
![Image[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/lEfgMts.png "Image[1].png")
>>44869571
I pick all three.
>>44869406
LV? Liliana Vess? I play her whenever I draw her usually, unless Lili is flipped of course. In this deck, the +1 is actually useful sometimes, but it's the tutor that gets used the most. I would really like a Liliana of the Veil, but I don't have that kind of cash right now.
Truth be told, I don't play the deck as often as I could because it is really good at what it does, which is make sure people are hurting for gas. The first time I played it, I forgot to include Gary and I really didn't have a wincon, so the game came to a grinding halt and eventually I landed Rise of the Dark Realms a few turns after I ulted Liliana. My main wincon is getting a Liliana Emblem, which is crazy.
>>44867511
Infect Newzuri is just bad.
>>44869268
>112.6. Abilities of an instant or sorcery spell usually function only while that object is on the stack. Abilities of all other objects usually function only while that object is on the battlefield.
now fuck off retard.
>>44868472
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/191a
>If they promised to serve as guardians of humanity, she would transform their curse, fusing the two warring aspects into a single noble creature, and allowing them to dwell in the light of her blessing. The lycanthropes at the Grotto that day cried for joy and accepted her offer, and she transformed them into the wolfir. In a powerful wave of spells that would become known as the cursemute, Avacyn's magic spread through the plane, transforming not just many werewolves but many of the world's foul curses. The wolfir emerged as a new race of great wolf-creatures dedicated to the principles of the Church of Avacyn
>It is not known whether any werewolves still exist on Innistrad, but some, perhaps many, might have escaped destruction by slayers and rejected Avacyn's eldritch transformation into wolfir. It was theorized that other lands beyond the great seas harbored exotic species of lycanthropes, and it has been speculated that some werewolves of the known world have fled for those far regions
>>44869782
So in other words werewolves do still exist.
>>44869824
rare, but yes
>>44869885
FUCK YES
>>44869678
It's my third build with him. I just can't get him working.
>>44869905
Unfortunately they are all the darkest and edgiest of werewolves and will be UB.
>>44870038
>Millwolves
Was there an anon who rocked this?
Wanna try out some exponential ramp.
Solid ways to get plenty of land in hand in one go?
>>44869571
How fast is it to be truly fast? I usually take till turn 4-5 before I'm churning out hornet queen after hornet queen
>>44870104
Storming vines
>>44870104
>99 land
>1 sasaya
Holy shit I need to build this
>>44870145
The fuck does that do? You have lots of mana and then you can do nothing with it.
>>44870085
i cri evertim
>>44870104
I have a friend that runs it. I forget what he uses, but when it happens. Fuck. His usual wincon is Helix Pinnacle, and I've seen him win the turn he plays it.
>>44870178
dude. It's a $1.00 joke plus shipping. I'm even going to use full arts for them
>>44870145
>>44870104
I've made this deck back when Tiny Leaders was a thing.
Tiny Leader Sasaya was fucking awesome, and I found quite a few cards that could be of use.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/sasaya-tiny-leader-and-bonsai-enthusiast/
I made sure to pretty much only play cards that replaced themselves, either with draw or land fetch, so you always have 7 cards in hand
>>44870178
Not basics, obviously.
>>44864866
We have some ETB hate right now too. Hushwing Gryf, Containment Priest, and Hallowed Moonlight. If you aren't running white there is always Torpor Orb.
>>44870144
Yes, the storm for basics, I forgot all about that. Thanks anon.
>>44870202
Hell yeah squaring your Mana sounds all kinds of fun.
>>44870211
God damn looking at the online price versus the physical of shit like Sylvan Library does two things to me: remind me I'll never build that Librarian Themed deck, and make me mad at douchebag kids.
Thanks tonnes for the list, got some good ideas. I wouldn't have thought about throwing in one of the X mill artifacts.
>>44869268
>i was only pretending dot jay peg
