"Are we thanes yet?" edition
Unified /pfg/ link repository: http://pastebin.com/53QiHfcU
previous thread: >>44844778
>>44853763
First for Paladins of best god
>>44853763
Nth for purging the unclean!
>>44853787
Third for Pilebunkers
I want to play an archivist!
>>44853834
That gold chick is lucky the skeleton took that hit for her, something tells me that flame sword would do a LOT of precision damage.
>>44853891
>lucky
>precision damage
Whatnow?
>>44853844
4th for making it medium weapon-sized
>>44853935
I think anon was implying iomedae backstabs people. In the back. With some kind of stabby thing.
>>44853618
>Envy Dragon w/Steal Class Feature
>swipes the Barbarian's Rage
>swipes the Sorcerer's Bloodline Powers
>swipe's the Druid's Wild Shape
>>44854003
>Iomemedae
Save it for the mirror universe, buddy.
How do I best commit genocide against a vampire class that dominates a country's political sphere? I know we're starting small with the purification of one hamlet, but is there anything that can let us bottle sunlight or something?
>>44854233
Paladin or Inquisitor.
If Gestalt, Paladin / Oracle.
A vamp cannot hurt a paladin as fast he can heal himself. And they cannot stop a smite to the face.
The same applies to Inquisitor with a holy + bane weapon.
>>44854313
Use a Bane Baldric
The inquisitor's Bane ability is effectively classless because of it. Anyone can have it.
>>44854313
negative levels are a bitch
>>44854313
My last gestalt was Soulknife / Inquisitor.
Its so not fun for the Lich to eat 7 Holy, Lawful, Bane mindblades every round.
>>44854533
Assuming the vamp can make em stick on against a Pali's high saves. And then there's mercies to fix that.
>>44854555
>Energy Drain (Su): A creature hit by a vampire's slam (or other natural weapon) gains two negative levels. This ability only triggers once per round, regardless of the number of attacks a vampire makes.
The saving throw comes after. And there are not mercies to remove negative levels, unless I'm mistaken about the nature of Remove Curse.
>>44854555
>Energy Drain (Su)
>A creature hit by a vampire's slam (or other natural weapon) gains two negative levels. This ability only triggers once per round, regardless of the number of attacks a vampire makes.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kdgw?Pathfinder-Energy-Drain#5
>Unless the monster or effect description SPECIFICALLY SAYS you get an initial saving throw... you don't get an initial saving throw.
>Effects that grant initial saving throws against an energy drain effect are pretty rare. I actually can't think of any that are in the rules right now, in fact.
Energy Drain is worse than you think it is.
It's worse than EVERYONE thinks it is.
A Paly with some foresight can benefit from a Death Ward Scroll though, which is really helpful.
Though, I guess anyone can do that.
So my players have been hired by the local Yakuza to steal a WH40K style Commissar's hat from the Not!Imperium's embassey. Hijinks are guaranteed to occur as there are several Hill-Giants in heavy plate (Ultramarines) guarding the place, the party has attracted the ire of a 10,000+ strong ninja clan (maybe 2), and the local Yakuza's rival will be trying to grab the hat as well, for whoever gets it will command the hearts and minds of the people.
I have a few scattered ideas of what might happen, but I need more. What sort of complications would you throw your players' way on such a mission? What's the best way for the whole thing to snowball like mad? This mission is their "break" from high-stakes super-serious shit, so good laughs are the goal.
>>44854677
Secret Ninjas in disguise absolutely everywhere. They think they're sneaking past civilians, but then the civilians throw off their cloaks and are ninjas.
They're fighting the Hill-Giants, and then one of them throws off its skin, and is three ninjas stacked up.
They're walking through a swinging door, and both doors are ninjas.
The hat sits on a pedestal, and when they grab it off, a ninja's head comes with it before he bursts out of the pedestal wearing the hat.
They return triumphant to find their contractor was a ninja all along.
But wait.
He was actually one of the other clan's ninjas.
They find a key on his body which they can use to open a secret door in the room.
The room holds one of their party members in a cage.
That party member was a ninja all along.
They rescue the caged party member.
It is also a ninja.
They do not know where the kidnapped party member is.
But it is likely to be somewhere with ninjas.Anywhere.
>>44854589
>>44854622
No no he means make em stick as in after 24 hours they go away. Because it takes like 14400 rounds for a vampire to kill anyone right?
Btw is vampire dominate really as strong as it seems? It seems like you should never ever fight a vampire without a massive will save because they are far more powerful in terms of domination than anything else.
Cast your vote for the Land of the Linnorm Kings AP!
Do you want to be Linnorm Kings who've earned their right to rule as a party?
Or do you want to be Thanes under the wing of one of the other Linnorm Kingss?
Vote here!
http://strawpoll.me/6571712
http://strawpoll.me/6571712
http://strawpoll.me/6571712
>>44854868
But if you receive enough negative levels to equate your level, you die.
Meaning, at most, you only need to be hit 10 times to die.
10 is a lot for a regular encounter, yeah. You're almost never gonna see a fight with a Vampire go 10 rounds, sure. But what if there are two Vampires in one fight? And what if he's, say, level 14? Then we're talking about only needing to be hit 7 times, between two Vampires. That's really reasonably likely, and a definite problem that needs to be addressed.
>>44854936
You know, that's assuming the Paladin is going at it alone. If he's got a cleric or a wizard at his side, he's not gonna have a lot of problems.
If a country put a fuck ton of effort into training druids how many level 13 druids do you think they could produce?
Like, the nobility's main thing was training druids, using brutal methods to produce results.
Are there sub-archetypes in any capacity?
I want to post more about my AP here, but my players also post in /pfg/ and I don't want to spoil them. Ah well, might as well start though, what's the worse that could happen?
>>44854954
Totally agree, but the other characters weren't explicitly part of the premise.
I mean, it's safe to assume, what with it bring PF, of course. I'm just saying, for the sake of the discussion that anon brought to the table, the Energy Drain could be something to look out for.
>>44854936
>But if you receive enough negative levels to equate your level, you die.
Thats the joke. I was pointing out the guy saying a pally's saves would protect him was clearly talking about 24 hours later, not an initial save and didn't understand how combat flows at all.
Also a Vampire is one of the MOST likely creatures you will have to go ten rounds in a fight with. Not only by his very nature will he have minions like spawn around but he can call swarms and animals to protect himself and even dominate you or your party members to prevent you harming him before even covering he's a creature with class levels. Plus fast healing, DR, enormous health even on casters thanks to the CHA hp thing and dex bonuses. Fights with a vampire will very often go on for ten rounds as they SWAMP you with minions and summons, then dominate the shit out of your team so you have to subdue them!
>>44854967
Level 13s are about 1 in every 4000 people arent they? So if ALL of your high levels were druids, then it would be 1 for every 4000 people i guess.
>>44855002
Wait, where are the statistics on that? I know 3E had stuff, but pathfinder has population/level statistics?
Tell me about Vanaras, /pfg/, are they any good? Which classes are best for them?
>>44854994
Yeah, I understand what you meant about 'making it stick'. I think I replied to the wrong anon, but I had meant to drive the point home that negative levels suffered during combat are sucky. But you get that.
And also, yeah, I'm inclined to agree with you that Vampires are actually one of the longest lasting encounters, but what I meant wasn't the length of 'encounter', but the length of the 'fight'.
I know that's stupid semantics, and I should have worded it differently, but what I meant is you're not going to stand toe to toe trading punches with a Vampire for 10 rounds.
His spells and minions and shit can totally keep the entire going that long if he wants, I guess, but I meant specifically getting hit consistently over the course of 10 rounds was not very likely.
>>44855031
Why not? Assume the Vampire is a caster like the one in Bestiary 1. Greater invisibility, False Life, Vampiric Touch and mage armor were all on that vampire's list and a better made vampire (like an Oracle) would have amazing defensive spells and abilities and would punch you for ages.
How do I get out of my comfort zone and role play a female character?
>>44855007
This is what the DMG of 3.5 says, which they used when making Korvosa for Crimson Throne. The game was still 3.5 at the time, but there has been no official Pathfinder update to this system:
>For PC classes, if the highest-level character indicated is second level or higher, assume the community has twice that number of characters of half that level. If those characters are higher than 1st level, assume that for each such character, the community has two of half that level. Continue until the number of 1st level characters is generated. For example, if the highest-level fighter is 5th, then the community also has two 3rd-level fighters and four 1st-level fighters.
Do the same for NPC classes, but leave out the final stage that would generate the number of 1st-level individuals. Instead, take the remaining population after all other characters are generated and divide it up so that 91% are commoners, 5% are warriors, 3% are experts, and the remaining 1% is equally divided between aristocrats and adepts (0.5% each). All these characters are 1st level.
>Community Modifiers
>Thorp -3*
>Hamlet -2*
>Village -1
>Small Town +0
>Large town +3
>Small city +6 (roll twice)
>Large city +9 (roll three times)
>Metropolis +12 (roll four times)
>*On a d% roll of 96-100, a thorp or hamlet adds +10 to the modifier when determining the level of a ranger or druid.
>Highest-Level Locals
>Adept 1d6 + community modifier
>Aristocrat 1d4 + community modifier
>Barbarian 1d4 + community modifier
>Bard 1d6 + community modifier
>Cleric 1d6 + community modifier
>Commoner 4d4 + community modifier
>Druid 1d6 + community modifier
>Expert 3d4 + community modifier
>Fighter 1d8 + community modifier
>Monk 1d4 + community modifier
>Paladin 1d3 + community modifier
>Ranger 1d3 + community modifier
>Rogue 1d8 + community modifier
>Sorcerer 1d4 + community modifier
>Warrior 2d4 + community modifier
>Wizard 1d4 + community modifier
>>44855136
It's like ripping off a bandage.
>>44855085
I'm not aiming to discuss how two classes could stand toe to toe for 10 rounds. That's obviously possible.
I'm saying that an appropriately tuned threat for a given character's CR doesn't slam him into the dirt over the course of 10 rounds, because a GM doesn't create that sort of monstrosity to unleash on a person.
Is it possible for the Tarrasque to go 10 rounds in melee with something? Of course. Is it "very likely" to happen? Fuck no.
I am in no way saying that Paladins are super amazing or that Vampires are super terrible. I'm only saying that the scenario wherein a Paladin and Vampire trade blows for 10 rounds is "not very likely".
>>44855136
Start by playing atrap
Beware of rogues
>>44855136Just roleplay it the same was you roleplay a male, and tell everyone it's a female. It's 2016.
>>44855180
So, by this mechanism, any given Metropolis has 4 13th level Druids, and a Metropolis' population in PF is 25,001 and up, meaning that 13th level Druids make up about .00016 of the population, if I'm doing math right.
I think even the most populous nations in Golarion have something like 2-4 metropolises. Maybe less. Taldor seems to only have like 1.5, and that's a big ass place with lots of people.
You can still get 13th level Druids out of Large Cities, but only 50% of the time, so there's basically 1.5 Druids per large city, and you can get them from Small Cities 1/6 of the time, so that's 1 more Druid per Small City.
So, the whole country of Taldor has...something like 10.25 13th level Druids based on its population.
If you account for the retarded concept that 1 out of every 25 Thorps or Hamlets can produce either 1/6 or 1/3 of another Druid, respectively, you're going to end up with something like 15 Druids, because no country actually lists every Thorp and Hamlet they have, but they definitely have LOTS, and 15 is a nice, round number.
So, if a country went balls to the wall and threw everything away except Druidism, and they had a population as big as Taldor's, they could probably crank out 5 times as many by giving up on some other classes instead. Like, no Barbarians, just Druids, no Bards, just Druids. Some classes you still need, just to function, and some can't be gotten rid of particularly well, like Rogue, but if you tried really hard, maybe you'd get 6 times as many, I dunno.
90, then? 90 13th level Druids for a big country? Maybe 100 if you figure something else out?
>>44855321
Sorry, typo
*One more Druid per THREE Small Cities.
I did the math the same way, just typed incorrectly. Carry on.
>>44855321
Also, I'm a retard, and I somehow thought Small Cities can produce level 13, but it seems that 12 is their max.
You can knock off 9-12 Druids from the final total, unless you can figure a way to bump those 12th level dudes to 13th level real quick.
Bard question. Will masterwork instrument bonus given to each Perform rolls be included on other (substituted) skills used via Versatile performance?
>>44855441
Yes.
Conversely though, an item that say, gives +5 to acrobatics probably wouldn't apply if you use versatile performance to substitute a perform skill for acro.
How crucial are a wizard's feats? I know some martials depend on theirs to the degree that they drive much of the class's power, but are there so many must-haves for a wizard to think twice about picking up a VMC?
Someone requested this a while back and I just found it again. Here you go!
>>44855559
feats are nice but not crucial. Lot of spells doesn't have DC.
>>44855575
Is that an umbrella gun?
>>44855559
VMC gets a bad rep but there are a few that are just flat-out worth more than feats - or even provide more effective feats than replaced in a couple cases.
Has anyone ever played a character that didn't max out perception?
How did that work out for you?
>>44855559
You can do some unique or oddball stuff with VMC oracle or magus, things a wizard might be interested in more than a feat slot.
>>44855721
I'd say I only play about 10% of my characters with Perception. It's not a class skill for a lot of classes, and that's fucking stupid, but it convinces me not to take it most of the time.
And yeah, it sucks ass. I hate basically being blind and missing plot hooks all the time. Missing treasure that hurts WBL and therefore damages the campaign fucking sucks. Missing clues to a mystery and thereafter wasting time walking around sucks. Failing to stop yourself form being pickpocketed blind everywhere you go fucking sucks.
If Perception is so goddamn important, why doesn't everyone just have it? If it's so mandatory, why make certain classes better at it?
Fucking PF sometimes.
What good mechanics from video games could be ported into Pathfinder?
>>44855441
No, because you're not actually perfomring, you're just allowed to substitute ranks.
>>44855790
Tanking.
Basically, melee guy that can draw the attention of his target in an effective way, rather than just taking a measly AoO and having to chase after it as it rampages past and eats the backline casters.
4E did it decently with 'Marking', but I think it could be even better than that.
>>44855811
Ahahahahahaha.
Someone doesn't know the difference between Skill bonus and skill rank. What a noob.
>>44855816
Shameless shilling, but the goetic in the DSP playtest does a fair amount of tanking in the 4e vein. To be less shameful, it does so because some of the spiritualist's phantoms have tanking properties. Either might be worth looking into for that interest, one that I completely share. Defenders are the best part of 4e (well that, or killer DM tools).
Psionics Augmented: Occult Playtest:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?472513-Dreamscarred-Press-Psionics-Augmented-Occult
Goetic:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fj__MUc9jfTzRHYnbSFu1-sYgSwJSViLBNtFQmIKfgs/edit?usp=sharing
>>44855816
Look at Dreamscarred Press' Path of War supplement, specifically the Warder. Aegis and Armiger's Mark make it reallly inefficient for the BBEG to target anything besides the Warder.
>>44856157
Tfw I'm so busy shilling my shit, I neglect to mention the obvious. Now that's shameful. Vouch there, warders are awesome.
A few days ago i was looking into making a Wizard/Initiator/Bladecaster and people said the Harbinger is a bad choice for it despite getting 1/2 INT bonus to attacks from level 1. Is there any particular reason why?
I know the Warder has full BAB and is also INT based, but I'm not sure i can use a shield, a weapon, and cast at the same time, plus the heavy armor is wasted on me. Its not as though Dervish Defender is any better on having hands free either.
Also why do people believe the Awakened Blade and Battle Templar are better than the Bladecaster?
>>44854856
Sounds like a plan. Or at the very least a fever dream.
>>44856333
Awakened Blade gives basically it's level to initiative, it has a really good stance and its action economy manipulation is really strong.
Battle templar is a little hard to get into due to its more strict entry requirements that are honestly a little feat taxy, but, otherwise it's really good at manipulating the action economy as many times a day as it has spell slots and it's a very powerful combat healer despite that generally considered being shit in paffinder.
Bladecaster on the other hand has a really shitty stance, it's honestly awful. And it can only bully the action economy so many times a day, unlike the other two theurges. The only thing that saves it is the fact that it is indeed a theurge. But your casting would be so shitty by the end of it I'd rather go mage hunter.
>>44855575
Wooh! That's the one! Thanks dude, this just won me a bet
>>44855441
Can you somehow use the instrument to aid in that check? If so, the bonus applies, if not it doesn't. Just like with any other masterwork tool regardless of the skill in question.
>>44856476
Nearly every prestige stance sucks.
>>44855559
Wizards can fit their feats in fairly easily, so they can easily trade out for VMC. Oracle/Sorcerer are particularly good, espcially if you get revelations or bloodlines that aren't CHA-based.
>>44856807
VMC Sorcerer for the Impossible Bloodline is nice for crafting wizards.
Guy from the group doing the whole maneuvers per day thing here, my group is also going to try to "fix" psionics. Their proposed fix is that you pick powers known up to your casting stat every time you level up. These powers chosen can be augmented up to that level in power points, every other power you cannot augment at all. They also propose that you can only achieve psionic focus a number of times per day equal to 3 + manifesting ability. How do I tell them this is a retarded idea?
>>44856943
How about you get a better group?
>>44856943
You can't possibly hope to explain it to them. Just ask them to play without Path of War or Psionics, its better than what they are suggesting.
>>44856943
Why are you telling this to us when we both know they won't listen to reason and their decisions are terrible?
>>44856943
1. Get them to talk directly to the DSP developers, who are always on Giant in the Playground.
2. If this doesn't work, ditch the group.
>>44854622
>>44854589
Negative levels got nerfed in PF.
>>44856943
Please ask them what goal they're hoping to accomplish with these changes; not just "for what purpose" but "what effect do you feel these mechanical changes will have?"
>>44855816
>4E did it decently with 'Marking', but I think it could be even better than that.
Depends on how you define better.
The fighter was the single most optimized class in 4e, and only the warden could lock down more creatures at once. There was also the variety of marks.
Quick, I need some stats for shopkeepers, guards, welders and goods for a small city I'm GM'ing, where do I go?
>>44857112
Shopkeeps and welders can literally be whatever you want them to be, but lvl 1-3 experts is generally best.
Guards, well, I have always believed that guards worth a shit should have class levels, and a variety of them, up to level 4 for squad captains and 8 for overall commanders. Remember that these people must also be on task to stop outside invaders, not just petty crimes within the city.
As for goods, where is the city? What is the terrain? Something near the coast would have a different set of goods and trade than a land locked city near the mountains.
>>44857152
Coastal city, but near forests. Small capital of a country, trading center.
>>44857112
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/npc-s
>>44856943
Point out how Paizo classes have auto-scaling spells
Point out how Paizo classes also can use meta-magic as much as they want assuming they have the resources to do so.
>>44857177
So it would have a variety of natural resources, fish, salt, shellfish (which the shells had a LOT of uses) from the ocean, lumber, furs, meat, bone from the forest as well as possible trade with the denizens of the forests.
From outside, you would have ore and stone, precious items.
>>44857087
This.
What are they trying to "fix" that isn't on the level of things published by Paizo?
>>44857087
I did, they said it's going to fix the problem of psionics being better in every way compared to normal classes.I just want to play a cute android cryptic who wants to explore the patterns of this strange world
>>44857243
Except they're not.
They're just parroting shit other dumbasses have said.
Have theme explain why they are better in every way.
In fact prove them wrong.
Compare Hustle to Haste.
Compare the Psionic Methods of Flight to the Fly spell.
>>44857243
But they aren't, in any capacity.
Psionics is at base weaker than magic without using resources to bolster it, and using resources makes it AS good.
Psionics can do some things magic can't, but you may as well complain arcane casters don't get the same spells as divine casters.
>>44857243
>>44856943
I swear to god this dude is just trolling us.
>>44857359
Some people are legit that stupid.
>>44857243
Unless this is the only meatspace group you can get, find a better one.
>>44857412
>Unless this is the only meatspace
No game is better than a bad game.
>>44857359
If I could convince my GM to ever come here, I would.
>>44856943
>>44857243
Opinions based on gut feeling can't be swayed by evidence unless you set some hard guidelines.
These are two actually feasible ways to make them come around to it:
1) Suggest a short campaign or oneshot where they have to use psionics and/or path of war. Optionally, you can play a sorceror or wizard, possibly as a GMPC if you have to run this game to make it happen.
Let them get a feel of what it's like to play for themselves.
2) Ask them the following:
-List out all the things they think that psionics can do better than arcane casters
-Agree beforehand what number of things on the list they can be allowed to do better so they actually have their niche rather than being strictly inferior to arcane casters on every front
-Agree that if you run numbers and show how wizard/sorceror can do enough of the things better, then they admit fair's fair and they let you play as normal.
Then go down the list and do your best to run numbers and things.
If they're set in their opinion, you either need to appeal to their gut feelings, or you need to get them to decide on something that would convince them to change their mind.
Well I was gonna be helpful but then my internet imploded.
>>44857568
Obviously not since you can post about it.
>>44857589
I think he means he typed a huge essay on psionics and it got wiped.
>>44857434
This meme is so bullshit and totally ignores that for most people groups are not things you travel between. They are either a gaming group you play with regularly for years or are your real life friends.
>>44857480
They will always view that campaign in the worst possible light and that character in the worst possible light.
>>44857606
There's an add-on called lazarus for that.
Reading through the Golden Lion maneuvers, there's one I don't quite get :
Harry the Prey
[...] The initiator makes an attack against a foe, and all allies within 30-ft. may make an immediate attack against any one foe that they can reach with their attacks (melee or ranged within the first range increment) at their full attack bonus.
1) I don't see how the mechanics fit the name of the maneuverthis is important
2) Why is "at their full attack bonus" added at the end? Are immediate attacks usually restricted to one hit using the higher attack bonus?
>>44856476
How do we make bladecaster better?
Because full initiating/ casting fishes get me absolutely rock hard.>inb4 magehunter
>>44857568
Gareth is it just me or outside of releasing the occult playtest have none of the playtests been updating? I can't seem to find any changes on POW, Soulknife, Arcforge, Steelforge, Truenaming, Akashic Mysteries etc.
Also in Athanatism on the power Death Pact the augment options all say "Free Willed". What exactly does this mean? Does it mean the "friendly to you" part doesn't apply when used in that way or that they are free willed outside of being friendly to you? Oh and doesn't this explicitly violate the "psionics can't create permanent undead" rule established in the ultimate psionics writeup on what psionics can and cant do? It seems to pave the way for future Athanatism products to include psionic animate dead, which would be nice.
>>44857480
Regarding the Path of War thing, I've actually played it with this group and, despite loving the system, I do agree it's very strong and needs to be toned down a bit. I'd say it needs to do a little less damage but my group is going about limiting it in the most retarded way.
>>44857636
So just say "I think I'm done playing PF with you guys, give me a ring when we do something different" or just stop playing TTRPGs with them and still do other stuff.
>>44855136
Think of it as playing anyone else, but you think more in terms of group, being supportive, and perhaps a bit more artsy fartsy.
>>44857636
>They will always view that campaign in the worst possible light and that character in the worst possible light.I dunno, that's how I got convinced to like PoW/Psionics
Even though the GM/campaign turned out to be bad for other reasons of railroading and poor storytelling and I came out of it swearing to never join one of his games again, it was my first proper experience with DSP stuff and I really liked the systems by the end of it
>>44857661
1) http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/harry
I don't see how the name doesn't fit.
2) Not sure, but I imagine it's just to avoid any possible ambiguity.
>>44857739
I kind of agree, the system is a bit too strong when pushed to its limits, but it can operate at a good powerlevel if you just have an honor agreement to focus on strikes rather than boost your normal full attacks to absurd levels. My issue with it isn't so much damage but the potential for unlimited utility.
(Eg. Turn incorporeal a few times a day? No problem. Potentially be incorporeal all day every day out of combat at level 5? Breaks quite a few things. (Yes even with the 5ft depth limit) )
>>44857725
Probably redo the stance, allow medium armor casting and remove the x times a day shit.
Alternatively, redesign the class around the level 10 power. Casting spells after hitting with a maneuver is nice, but using strikes through a spell instead of a weapon gives it a cool design space very separate from traditional gishes.
Lets be honest, which is cooler? Hitting someone with a strike then getting a free vampiric touch, or having the effects of the strike be on the vampiric touch?
>>44857739
Devs did say they were gonna nerf a few things. Myself, I'm waiting for the errata.
>>44857739
Alternately: play support. Everyone (except possibly the GM) is willing to overlook slightly OP support abilities when they help their own characters get stronger.
>>44857765
Yeah that works for people who's friends get together all the time, but if people have jobs and you meet up once a week or every two weeks you have just cut yourself off from those people as a group. You can see them individually but basically you won't be hanging out with them any more for a few months.
>>44857819
>>44857807
>>44857739
Why is it always nerf this or nerf that? Why not just buff the other shit up to par instead.
Building a thrown weapon warpriest, which is a better choice:
ricochet toss (combat feat) or a blinkback belt?
>>44856143
>>44855816
Don't Paladins have a spell that forces an opponent to focus only on them? Or was that 3.5e..
>>44857807
Like what I wonder?
If your referring to the veiled moon thing, I'd just rule that you still recover out of combat so when you phase back and in a wall, you'll eat shit.
>>44857844
I said, even the DEVS acknowledged some things are overpowered. I'd personally would rather wait to see what they'll do first.
>>44857844
Because Broken Blade, Thrashing Dragon, and Primal Fury are a bit too strong. Although Broken Blade is easily fixible by my making it unarmed exclusively, the other stuff not so much,
>>44857739
Honestly pretty much every maneuver that boosts damage prior to level 3 maneuvers (usually accessed at level 5) should be removed entirely. Even stuff like +2d6 damage is just absurd prior to then in how much better it is.
Its not really because +2d6 damage is inherently too strong, its really just because you can do that AND power attack with a two hander. Ultimately i don't think PF damage output in melee can ever be balanced whilst the extreme weapon and fighting style power level differences exist.
>>44857844
Because people are crying that it out damages Fighters and Barbarians and Rangers and Rogues.
>>44857636
>They are either a gaming group you play with regularly for years or are your real life friends.
Then their real life friends are like their favorite anime.
>>44857928
Comforting and Supportive?
>>44857844
Because PF combat is already enough like rocket tag. There's no real need for abilities that allow characters to one-round CR+2 enemies to exist.
>>44857941
No, shit.
>>44857844
Ever played with a Bushi sheathing and unsheathing an enormous two handed weapon to do ranged attacks that deal 2d6+6+3+2d6 and then make it so their next attack deals +50% extra damage at level 3?
Some things in POW (damage maneuvers) just fuck up encounters by making it so no amount of HP or defense is enough without making the monsters too strong for any normal people or people using the other aspects of POW to deal with.
>>44857928
Capable of overdosing on breast milk and turning into a two headed bald eagle that shoots lightning from its beaks?
>>44857945
Better nerf the fuck out of all Tier 3+ classes then, especially 1 and 2.
>>44857892
What if we diminish the damage bonus from 2-handers when using manevers.
For example a maneuver that adds +2d6 only does +1d6 while 2-handing.
>>44857851
How are you getting ricochet toss on a warpriest without the weapon training class feature?
>>44857810
This pretty much.
Bladecasters should live up to the name sake... casting from their blades.
Spells strike should be an automatic level 1 ability.
Casting in medium armor an upgrade is a must.
The stance is shit, replace stance with an mage pool for consuming points for stance magics or coverting magic effects a mystic would.
Weapon becomes arcane bond.
Anything else would be so synergizeing the maneuvers and magics for better synergy. Its too clunky as it stands currently
How to defeat Karzoug guys?
>>44857983
>Capable of overdosing on breast milk and turning into a two headed bald eagle that shoots lightning from its beaks?
Dude, what the hells have you been watching?
>>44857986
Then people will one hand them. 2d6+4+2+2d6 if you take away two handing from the example in >>44857983
It doesn't really change that damage from melee guys is already pretty high (even 2x crits tend to one shot everything in PF) and providing more damage is just a bad idea. Your idea doesn't provide parity between two handers and non-two handers, it just makes two handers better at level 1 and then scaling progressively worse. It also doesn't change that the POW guy is still outdamaging everyone but the magus and forcing encounters to jump a few CRs in strength leaving those who can't compete with the stronger monsters to reroll new characters.
>>44854875
>Both choices are 50/50
Can someone sell me on both choices? What does thane do that kingship doesn't?
>>44858043
>>44857986
>ITT: WW AAAAAHH TIER 3+ CLASSES ARE BETTER THAN MY FIGHTER ;_;
>>44858028
The martial focus feat counts as having weapon training.
>>44857861
It still means you almost never have to worry about doors, no matter how tough the lock, unless the GM decides all doors are ghost touch doors. Many dungeons also have 5ft walls between rooms.
Some other stuff that sticks out off the top of my head:
>Temporal Body Adjustment
In combat, sort of fine, but you can use it to just say 'no' to curses, diseases, spell effects, fatigue, petrification, etc, at no cost.
Between this and unlimited healing from silver crane or elemental flux, there is no longer any reason to worry about traps unless they can one-hit kill or permanently cripple you, because you can shrug off any HP damage or conditions.
>Sleeping Goddess level 3 stance
No offensive capabilities, but once again out of combat you get a reroll on every saving throw.
Practically CHARMED LIFE tier.
>>44857892
I proposed a sort of fix ages back where until maybe initiator level 5~6 you can't stack damage increases from both a boost and a strike.
But we actually did run the numbers on this a while ago and unless you super cheese things with broken blade/primal fury, low-level PoW damage is safely comparable to a well-optimised barbarian of your level.
Yes, the optimised barbarian can't do anything except high damage, but that's besides the point.
>>44857986
That's silly. Twohanding is meant to be about doing more damage.
>>44857983
>no amount of HP or defense is enough without making the monsters too strong for any normal people
Low level PoW's big weakness is lack of area of effect; a few disciplines have it for unimpressive damage (around 3d6 flat per enemy) but most initiators can't hit down more than two enemies per turn at most. Just adjust encounter design to have a lot of medium enemies, and maybe one big guy.
>>44854875
>Do you want to be Linnorm Kings who've earned their right to rule as a party?
The issue here is you wouldn't be earning your right to rule, the party killed the Linnorm as a team, which goes directly agains the tradition that Linnorm Kings are lone heroes that slay the beast from personal skill.
You'd be pissing off a lot of Ulfen with something that doesn't make sense in the lore to become kings of territory that isn't even that good.
>>44858034
>Bladecasters should live up to the name sake... casting from their blades.
Well what i was suggesting was to STOP making them cast from their blades (which is what battlecaster's strike does) and start making them toss aside blades to use casting instead. Pure focus on strikes done with spells, applying boosts to strikes, something magicky for counters etc. They could start out with just using ranged strikes with ranged touch and melee strikes with melee touch then move on to any attack roll spell, then maybe even a way to apply strikes to shit like fireball. Though for AOE strikes i would imagine there should be some pretty big drawbacks, maybe make you expend multiple spell slots and/or add an attack roll component to the spell so the enemy can use both AC and saves to defend against it instead of one or the other?
>>44858067
More like they shit on the Aegis, Soulknife, Guru, Daevic, Psychic Warrior etc. Ever notice that its not just the Fighter and the Rogue, but EVERY CLASS that needs a POW archetype? Besides nobody sensible plays fighter here anyway, the main issue is damage output relative to how strong monsters are.
>>44858082
So you want to burn two feats in order to save yourself the cost of a 5000 gp item? Seems a bit steep to me. I'd run blinkback and see if your DM would allow you to weasel your way into TWF with startoss style.
>>44858067
Nobody here is saying that PoW isn't loads of fun.
Appropriate nerfs are important because it makes them more viable to play alongside non PoW.
No, they don't need to be stomped down to fighter level, nobody wants that.
But pretty much what >>44858182 said; other tier 3 martial classes shouldn't be made inadequate in combat.
I'm not even worried about steamrolling monsters too much; just bump up the CR of encounters to match. I'm worried about disparity between party member capability; being on the wrong end of that only creates grudges against the stronger class.Why do you think most of pfg hates casters so much
>>44858107
>Sleeping Goddess level 3 stance
>stance
Which you use only when ambushed by a gang of naruto-tier wizard ninjas because against other foes stances that add damage or AC or movement modes are better.
>>44858144
>pretty big drawbacks.
Just utilize them like metamagics. Increasing the spell level cost is an easy means if applying a technique such as a maneuver to AoE the shit out of everything.
Maybe maneuver level equals metamagics cost? Might be too huge a drawback that would never be used but it's a start of an idea
>>44858107
In PF thanks to action economy woes nearly every fight needs a bunch of mooks anyway. The issue isn't that it makes single boss monsters irrelevant (though it does do that its not like hold person doesn't accomplish the same task) but that medium sized groups of average or elite monsters go from being two-three rounds to kill to one round kills every time. Also if you think a Barbarian's +3 damage whilst two handing in a rage is comparable to pow when even 1d6 is average 3.5 damage you are seriously bad at counting. Nearly every discipline has a level 2 maneuver with +2d6 damage and several have other ways than adding dice to boost damage like letting other people take AoOs or even just the +10 on that one iron tortoise strike or just using stances alongside your strikes.
>>44858232
Bumping up Monster CRs is what creates party member disparity to begin with, because that is what punishes weak players. A strong POW guy one shotting everything forces every encounter to be tailored to him unless you bump up CR, but if you DO bump up CR then that's when stuff like Terry the Metaforge starts to be unable to hit things or unable to do enough damage past its defenses and begins to get fucked over even more than having to watch himself be outshined.
I do love POW, but unfortunately its an issue of the pathfinder core rules and design rather than POW in certain ways. By making most damage come from the weapon, feats, magical enhancements and buffs rather than from class features it has made those classes that DO have class features to improve damage able to "double dip".
>>44858447
>member disparity
>weak players
If people can't agree on allowed tiers and optimization levels before the game just means they are bad at communicating and/or Pathfinder.
>>44858447
Most full BAB classes DO have features that increase the damage. Even the fighter gets weapon training. The issue isn't that maneuvers and stances increase the damage, it's that they increase it too much. Part of the issue is also them being full attack friendly - that is, putting too much of that damage into stances and boosts and strikes that imitate full attacks. This is something that ToB did better.
Actually, not that guy but I'd like to run a AP and have PoW at the same time.
>>44858528
>Part of the issue is also them being full attack friendly - that is, putting too much of that damage into stances and boosts and strikes that imitate full attacks.
This right here. The core belief that "ToB/PoW lets martials do something other than full attack!" doesn't work in-practice when the boosts and stances just get tacked-on to a full attack by the user anyway because it's blatantly better to do that than to use any single Strike or a normal Full Attack.
>>44858556
Some passives like teleport and team actions are probably what was intended to happen, but otherwise you're right PoW/Tome is just making the dmg output of full attacks that much more, ignoring that full attacking was the problem originally.
>>44858418
Or you know, when you're traveling through a dungeon or other guarded places and want to walk all over the traps.
>>44858447
>Thinking 'rage for +3 damage' is the zenith of barbarian damage optimization
Anon please
A level 2 half-orc barbarian with 18str and lesser beast totem can rage and power attack claw/claw/bite for 1d6+8/1d6+8/1d4+4 for average 30 damage per round
Let's say you have 18 str and a power attack greatsword at level 3, 1d10+6+3 for 14.5 damage; you'd need to stack on at least 4d6 in stances and boosts to even equal the damage of the barbarian one level below you
Yes, you can do loads of other stuff the barbarian can't, but (once again, short of primal fury/broken blade) you're not quite punching holes through the damage ceiling.
>>44858673
Tome of Battle literally has one or two stances that increase damage.
Well, I got some news from my GM. Says "Go ahead and play your fucking psionics, I don't want to bother with this shit anymore. I suppose the problem is solved, I can only hope he isn't going to off my character out of spite. Still completely adamant about the maneuvers per day thing. Says it's going to fix Path of War because it won't be spammable which he believes is it's biggest problem.
>>44858509
And a POW nerf would mean more games are able to have POW players by placing them in T3 instead of wonky massive damage but otherwise in T3/4.
>>44858824
> "Go ahead and play your fucking psionics, I don't want to bother with this shit anymore. I suppose the problem is solved
Just tell him if he's going to be like that, you won't play it. Nothing good comes when people make catty concessions like that..
If you want to see stuff get blown away by martials you don't need PoW, just have a couple Gnome or Halfling mounted archers.
>>44858894
Something being busted doesn't justify other things being busted.
Honestly a big problem in D20 is that your either wrecking something or being wrecked. There is seldom an in-between.
Hi /pfg/! It took a bit longer than I originally expected, but I finished up converting the swashbuckler changes into a complete Unchained class. It's still in draft, so let me know what you think, and if anything needs changing.
>>44858953
con't
And lets be honest, if you are using monster entries straight from the book without any deviation or homebrew, even in a PoW free environment, you are a retard and shouldn't be behind the wheel. You forfeit any right to complain when three whole tiers of classes do the same things but worse through other means.
So suck it up and adjust or start banning everything stronger than tier 4.
>>44858673
Here's how I houseruled full attacks.
First: Every 5 points you beat the enemy AC by multiplies the damage, capped at the number of attacks you can make with that attack.
Second: Any excess damage overflows onto the target who will take the least amount of damage to die (So if you have a DR5/iron fey with 1 HP and a goblin with 4 HP, the goblin is the priority target). Enemies run on the 4e rule of "You decide if it is killed or incapacitated at 0HP".
It makes a real difference in performance and speed.
>>44858894
Hunter, Paladin, Magus all annihilate things with just combat attacks. I'm ignoring the spells they get on top of that.
Bard and Skald are in the same tier brack as PoW but blow them out of the water in terms of shutting down enemies at low levels, and provide a lot for the group as well.
Inquisitor as well. Alchemist. Etc etc.
PoW is comfortable where it is. If you are using monsters by-the-book RAW then you're kind of a retard anyway and forefeit any right to complain.
>>44858873
Tier 2+ classes are Tier 2+ because they do powerful shit that is better than straight up damage.
You guys are fucking morons.
>>44858824
What a dick.
>>44858696
The only time Broken Blade really goes through the roof is at level 5+, primarily from Broken Blade Stance and Steel Flurry Strike. The Stance is for the most part fine, but Steel Flurry Strike might need its bonus damage turned down to 2d6. 1d6 might disincentive using it versus just full attacking with TWF and Broken Blade Stance, so I wouldn't go any lower.
You can also make its damage scale more sanely at lower levels by removing Monk weapons, or having them kick in after they reach low-mid levels, like 8 or so.
Level 6+ it evens out because other full BAB classes start getting their second attacks, open up PrCs and Feat builds start to come to fruition.
>>44858696
That's an unreasonable comparison, the strike doesn't require a full round attack and on top of that only needs one to hit roll. It also isn't punished by things like DR or concealment as heavily.
>>44858894
Yeah everyone knows the nightmares of what a longbow can do. POW sort of makes the problem worse i guess by letting people get stances and boosts, but strikes might as well not exist for rapid shot longbow deathman.
>>44858953
Are you really unironically comparing non-damage abilities to damage? You can easily argue sleep and color spray have the same effect as damage, but entangle, command and fucking DOOM do not. There is a WORLD of difference between debuffing something and beating it. Nobody is complaining about strikes that deal ability damage, that entangle, that provide -4 to all dice rolls or shit like that, we are complaining about stuff that lets you do the very same thing you are complaining about with sleep (taking foes out effortlessly in one turn) except with a more lenient HD cap. Produce flame is a fucking joke too, because that's going to be 1d6+1 for ONE ATTACK PER LEVEL PER CASTING. So you spend a standard to cast, then hurl 1d6+1 a number times equal to your level to do shit all damage even compared to a fucking retarded chained rogue.
>>44859004
Those are bullshit comparisons when all of them but Hunter run on limited resources, the Magus risks AoOs, the Hunter is shut down by DR and every fucking T3 class has a POW archetype that easily outclasses it by miles.
>>44859040
I fucking said that IN MY POST. The difference between "fight winning" and "debuffing" abilities. Damage can be a fight winner, the same way wall of earth, create pit, plane shift, gate, time stop, sleep, color spray and all those things are fight winning spells because they make an opponent effectively unable to harm you and/or easily killable. DAMAGE DOES THE SAME THING IN HIGH ENOUGH DOSES.
>>44858982
The problem with this is that it makes attacking extremely binary, where a miss costs you all of your damage rather than just a portion. At the high end, the significance of the 5% nat-1 chance has been massively increased, and that's not good.
Like 4e, this will make having a attack bonus absolutely critical, as in always being the absolute highest concern. Effects that trade attack bonus for higher damage (e.g. Power Attack, TWF, etc.) become very dubious under those rules.
>>44859112
Damage requires you to make attack rolls and hit and deal with DR.
Magic, especially at low levels, does not. Maybe at higher levels when SR and immunities become more prevalent.. but even then, spells > martial abilities. Yes including PoW.
Cry some more though.
>>44859112
>muh limited resources balances the game argument
Rope Trick called, it says you're a faggot.
>>44859157
Normally I'd agree with you, but the discussion IS about 1st level only. At 1st level, resource limits are much more meaningful.
>>44859112
>>44859040
Shit im tired. I accused you of not reading my post before i actually made my post. Thought i seperated it into two posts, sorry.
>>44859135
Immunities and resistances are MORE common than DR at low level because so many of them are tied to type and/or subtype. Everything but animals and humanoids haas them.
>>44859157
It doesn't balance the magus, it just makes your comparison fall apart 50% of the time when the DM feels like doing a series of encounters.
>>44859195
As far as I can tell, no-one has been talking about 1st level only. Low levels, mostly, but there's been level 2 barbarians, level 3 initiators, etc. all the way up to speaking fo 3rd level maneuvers.
>>44859106
>Steel Flurry Strike might need its bonus damage turned down to 2d6. 1d6 might disincentive using it versus just full attacking with TWF and Broken Blade Stance, so I wouldn't go any lower.
I'd just kill that strike with fire. Or remove all bonus damage, three attacks as standard action is good enough. Though iirc there's first dazing strike in Blade at level 3, so I'd rather take that one.
>>44859195
No it isnt. I don't even know why people are talking about spells now either. As though the most broken part of the game (especially color spray and sleep) that EVERYONE DERIDES AS BROKEN are what we should balance damage around.
Oh hey kids, some things that are horribly broken are broken so therefore infinite damage is never broken even if both result in constant 1 turn KOs!
>>44858929
What happened to the mass-feint ability? The idea you started with came from a list of suggestions that enabled the Swashbuckler to count as feinting everyone she finished an acrobatics, climb, ride or escape artist check while threatening. That's how the new riposte was supposed to be beneficial at all. Then that swashbuckler, who was actually realistically able to parry an attack (this one is totally not), would be able to generate an AoO out of it to attack a bunch of people in the threatened space.
And since this was intended to go with some light or one-handed piercing weapon, the reach ability could complement an AoO specialist for THOSE piece of shit weapons; without that stipulation it just tells them the best way to be a swashbuckler (by FAR) is to just ignore half your features and wield a reach weapon.
>>44855023
Man, PF Vanara suck compared to 3E Vanara.
>Check out Roll20
>There's someone advertising for a Paid Campaign
>$10 per player per session
How do i into optimizing weapons?
>>44859554
Yeah, no.
>>44859585
Pick a good class. Weapons suck in a vacuum. Which I guess should be impossible, but they manage anyway.
>>44859585
Depends on what you're building class-wise.
Unless it's a ranged character, in which case the rules basically want you to use a longbow or cry and cry some more.
>>44859422
Sonofabitch. What happened to the mass-feint ability is that I forgot to copy it over. It should still be there at 1st level, as it was. This is what I get for doing editing work at 3 AM. I'll upload a new version once I can with the edit, and also probably removing Spear Dancer style since it seems too OP.
>>44859635
>Unless it's a ranged character, in which case the rules basically want you to use a longbow or cry and cry some more.
>>44859655
I really wish the other Soulknife archetypes were on par with that one instead of the blatant "fuck you its okay if its better because its cooler" attitude.
>>44859655
please, DSP has to wait hand and fucking foot on the psyarm for it to function as intended, and STILL isnt as strong/feat-compatible/etc.
>>44859713
Yeah. The war soul augmented blade, living legend, and war soul psychic armory are so much better than the base soulknife it's not even funny.Poor base soulknife.
>>44859765
What's so good about the augmented blade?
Mirrors, Garlic and Holy Symbols don't stop a Vampire's Dominate?
That is bullshit.
>>44859765
Well its really not the base soulknife I'm that annoyed about its more just that every single archetype except arguably war soul fall totally short compared to psychic armory.
I didnt even realize you could do a war soul psychic armory soulknife, if you can thats ridiculous.
>>44859790
>Ignore the whitelist by getting some 8k bane weapons at higher levels
>Faster mind blade progression
>Change your mind blade's weapon special abilities every time you draw it, instead of once per day
It's not strictly to the level of the other two, but it is very versatile in what can do, far and above the normal soulknife. Basically gets all the weapon-based silver bullets against bullshit monsters on-demand.
>>44859826
you can be a gifted blade war soul psychic armory in a high magic/psionics game
>>44859585
Regular Two-handing: Take Power Attack, you're done
Reach Two-handing: Take Combat Reflexes and... Kitsune Style? I don't know anymore
Mounted: Spirited Charge lance time
Two-weapon Fighting: Take TWF, get feats devoured by ITWF and GTWF, be immobile and sad
Bow: Take all the mandatory feats like every bow user, they are mandatory to function.
Crossbow: Take Quick Draw so you can get another weapon out as soon as possible
>>44859826
War soul psychic armory, ha ha.
I played one of those once.
>tfw GM said flat 'no' to Tempest Gale being able to shoot weapons out of the hands of a melee attacker swinging at you
>but he also thought it was fine that Call the Soul's Blade + power charm of versatility (Bane) meant I could selectively bane all my weapons at will
I eventually rerolled because I was too tired of doing nothing but full attack blasting.
>>44859646
Make sure you rethink the Parry. Parrying every attack in a full attack is super-unlikely.
>>44859936
>I eventually rerolled because I was too tired of doing nothing but full attack blasting
oh woe is you.
so you played a wizard next?
>>44859878
Kitsune Style? For Kitsune Vengence later, or is there something you can do with it on its own?
>>44857729
Well, regarding the playtests: Occult is ongoing, PoW is in layout, Soulknife is in layout, Arcforge just had a small update, Steelforge has updates coming, and I'm not sure enough about the others to say.
For psionics, there's a huge different thematically between "binding a spirit to flesh," "unbinding a spirit from flesh," and "make zombie army." It's not that psionics can't create permanent undead, it's that its ability to do so is limited to the general things it's good at (bearing in mind that much of psionics is pretty bad at creating permanent /anything/).
Psionics has been stated to not be getting "psionic animate dead" because it doesn't fit what it's able to do. There have been numerous discussions on it internally, and there may be later undeadification of things, but it is almost certainly not going to be something that's as fire-and-forget as magical Necromancy. For example, the Shattered Mind Occultist retains the ability to make skeletal minions from a Necromancy implement, but they're not permanent and don't really /come/ from anywhere.
Finally,the "free willed" thing means that they're completely uncontrolled and free-willed. Their transformation into an undead creature might make them unfriendly to you because of that creature's nature, but it's likely that their opinion of you isn't going to change.
(Or as the author put it, "doesn't clever them up at all, but being imbued with that much negative is probably gonna make them cranky.")
>>44859826
Falls short in sheer combat capabilities or in general? Do you have any comments on the Living Legend? It was meant to be balanced at a bit higher a power level than the base soulknife, closer to the war soul and psychic armory, but not matching the latter's terrifying gatling full attacks.
>>44860003
I mean they fall short of the psychic armory. The psychic armory being able to fight at range, not provoke AoOs for attacking, have a giant threatened area, do fireball/lightning bolt style things and to have each weapon type prepared with different buffs is pretty insane for any melee archetype to compare to.
I read the Living Legend once and i feel it would be unfair to comment on it. I thought the feat thing was a little janky but it looked better than the medium, even if i didn't like the fluff as much.
>>44859937
Yeah, I originally went with that as a way of trying to rein in the class from having too many AoOs in a round, but the more I think about it, having a hard limit from Combat Reflexes already sort of serves that purpose. I'll rework it in the next update to be "each attack that misses provokes."
>>44860096
The feat thing has been changed to be a less janky, at least. Thanks for taking a look, even if you didn't like it much.
>>44859991
Yeah, sorry I forgot where that went. Last time I played a reach-emphasizing character was back when tripping sort of worked. I was just trying to think of how dirty tricks, the new hotness, fit into reach combat.
>>44860003
Psionic Animate Dead doesn't have to be zombies (though the egophile suggests living "zombies" are apparently within the realm of psionics) i would actually prefer ectoplasmic or ghostly creatures.
I know DSP has something against psionic animate dead and certainly against fire and forget psianimate dead. But even a temporary mass ghostly army (like one that lasts 1 hour or 24 so you have to constantly reinvest power points/find new corpses) power would really help patch the big hole in psionics that is "mook calling". Its not necessarily a balance issue as much as it is a thematic, setting (third dawn suffers because of anti-animate dead policies) and fun issue.
>>44860173
i wouldnt mind getting a lotr-style ghost army
>>44860127
Ultimately attaching the Soulknife to the Medium just doesn't appeal to me. I'd much rather see a good Medium without it being an archetype for a class i consider the very opposite of a Medium. Controlling/amplifying your own soul as a soulknife does is as far as you get from inviting in another one.
What books come in Ultimate Psionics? It looks like core and expanded, anything else?
>>44860207
Dunno what books, but here's the Toc
>>44860236
Augmented too, it looks like.
>>44860200
Fluffwise, the living legend is less "call in another soul" and more "use a story as a template for your own power." They aren't mucking about with spirits at all except tangentially—their power is entirely their own, merely bound into a more powerful and directed form by self-imposed rules.
I can get not liking it for those reasons, though. There's more (actual) Medium stuff coming; it wasn't in the most recent wave of the playtest because it has a lot of moving parts that need to be sorted out.
>>44859985
Nah, I played a Zealot.
That was good fun.
Smacked everything around with 20ft melee reach, fought the party Harbinger in a death match, saved most of the party from death numerous times.
>>44860207
It even comes with the Psionic Items of Legend line.
>have a pretty good group over IRC, folks are quirky but nice, and usually fairly on-point
>mention I want to do some fluff stuff on the side, likely unrelated to the campaign, in order to get back into the swing of things and experiment with character ideas
>GM and one other player are both ecstatic and we set it all up
>mfw we start, and partway through I realized I walked intoERP
>mfw my desire to follow the personality of the character I brought in, and a detached, morbid curiousity leaves me stuck and I keep going
>mfw these two now both message me for this shit every other day now
>all I wanted to do was experiment to see if I could actually emulate different mannerisms and attitudes so I could stop playing the same damn character all the time
I got what I wanted in a way, but this is not at all how I wanted to do it.
>>44860263
Unfortunately i doubt I'll enjoy your other Medium archetypes either. Psionics as a whole is about internal rather than external power and so to me is difficult to mesh with the Medium.
Now an Akashic Medium? I'd just hurl money.
>>44860289What were the characters involved?
Does this make you uncomfortable? Because if it does you should drop it.
>>44860207
Psionics Unleashed, Psionics Expanded, and Psionics Augmented 1.
>>44860304
Well, I'd wait and see. That's actually a concern we're aware of and discussed, and I think that the psionic Medium we're preparing manages to handle it well.
>mfw Paizo user got upset at me describing the Cult of the Dawnflower as "rebel scum" that must be "removed" for the glory of Taldor.
>>44860304
>Akashic Medium
I didn't know how much I wanted this.
>>44860345
Danke
>>44860304
I'm the other side of the gate.
I actually like the Living Legend (Although I feel it should be able to stack with more archetypes; like the War Soul or Augmented Blade), but I dislike Akashic stuff.
I mean, in theory, I like Akashic; but in practice, the vast majority of the veils feel like junk. Akashic seems better for dipping.
>>44860346
>tfw don't know much about paizolore
>pick Sarenrae for my neutral good vitalist's god because healing, redemption, and integrity
>then I find out it's basically lawful good ISIS and that's what all the sarenrae NPCs I've run into are like
is this how normal muslims feel about terrorists
>>44860346
Ooo, gimme link before Bucolitz show up.
>>44860380
A lot of that is related to how veils work. They allow for massive flexibility and only turn into powerhouses when your each the appropriate level.
Besides most Akashic classes outside of Vizier really focus more on their class features than veil-weaving.
>>44860380
>Stacking
Yeah, sorry about that. There were major power level concerns with combining with War Soul (it'd need to be a lot weaker overall if it also had easy access to maneuvers), and even when I was considering trying to make it work like that, there just wasn't enough things to replace or swap out on the base soulknife, and almost everything the Living Legend touches is also replaced by other ones.
Bit of a shame, but from a personal standpoint, I like how this turned out more than I think I would have if I'd forced it to work with War Soul and other soulknife archetypes.
>>44860401
It's really weird how that goes seeing as hwo much emphasis Sarenrae places upon the PLAYERS being able to spare and subdue their enemies when possible. I mean, Sarenrae's special swashbuckler archetype is rewarded for taking out dudes without killing them while the base swashbuckler is rewarded for dropping dudes lethally.
>>44860324
Normally I would have just noped out and dropped the group like a sack of how shit, but something just kind of snapped in my brain and I just went along with it.
>characters involved
Two human girls, an enlarge person spell, anda centaur skald
I got into an argument with a player about a game I'm running that is limited to tier 3/4 classes and has DSP lines open for use, his argument being that "players don't have enough options open and they may as well not even expect to play Pathfinder".
As much as I sneer at this, knowing how the math works in 3.pf, do others feel this may be true, that an element of game expectations is lost?
>>44860486[real world parallels intensify]
>>44860523
This player should stop sucking dicks.
>>44857040
They're still fucking deadly in the numbers vampires put out.
>>44860523
Well, he does sort of have a point in that when you hear someone talking about a game of Pathfinder, you naturally assume it involves wizards and clerics and shit. But that doesn't mean it's a bad thing, especially if you're upfront about it.
Does it actually make any sense to take Weapon Finesse -> Elven Battle Training -> Elven Battle Style -> Elven Battle Focus ever?
It feels like I'd be better off just bumping my Dex down in point buy from 16 or whatever to get 14 strength. And then wielding a better weapon than girly finesse things also makes up the difference lost between my strength and intelligence modifiers, even at 22 Int. I guess I'm out 1 attack bonus, 1 AC and 1 initiative, but would those have even been worth FOUR feats?
>>44860523
Well, I see where he's coming from.
Tier 5 classes may be valuable for dips, and even wizards and sorcerers won't break a campaign if the player is either inexperienced or charbuilding on an honor system.
I'd just say 'all classes allowed, but tier 1/2 please hold back a bit (or have your build subject to review), and if you really want to play a t5 or low t4 then know what you're getting into'
>>44860606
Only case I would advice for that feat chain would be if you wanted to PrC into Duelist.
>>44857480
I might be able to convince my group to let me run a one-shot for the purpose of seeing Psionics isn't so bad. Does anyone know of a decent Paizo module that's preferably between the level 3-7ish range that will take about a session to go through?
>>44860601
>>44860523
Although the part about not having enough options is bullshit, especially if you're including 3pp materials.
>>44860509
Wait a second, are you the anon that was asking about his centaur character earlier?I imagine the Enlarge Person was used on the human girls?
>>44860401
Which NPCs?
>>44853763
How does Sarenrae suck?
>>44860486
>>44860542
The point of Sarenrae is quite literally "convert or die." Her doctrine preaches mercy to the wicked so they have a chance to repent for their misdeeds, and if they refuse to see the light then you must destroy them.
Say you wanted to Sunder and pretend you're playing Akiba's Trip. Would it be better to do it via monk, fighter, or Shatter spamming magus?
>>44860558
He is a long time DM and a close friend, so I will not discard his words so casually.
>>44860601
I have been upfront since the day I suggested the game, as I feel it is only right.
>>44860634
I have 2 powergamers in the group. Both brought in optimized fullcasters to a game the player in question was running when the rest of the group were playing tier 3/4 classes. With one, I even asked the DM if he would caution the player to keep in line with the group trend, then he brought in an outrageously optimized cleric.
>>44860707
Ask your DM to play a 3.5 warlock, you get shatter at will.
>>44860673
Not 'convert', but just 'don't be evil'.
And the way I initially interpreted her doctrine was 'believe in the goodwill of people and always offer them a chance to change their ways and support their efforts', and the 'if they really aren't going to change then you can kill them' was just a caveat for the truly hopeless cases.
>>44860647
I was the anon who suggested the lance and longbow combinations, actually. I was interested in the different attitudes between races, and how an adventurer would react to so many things being so radically different to where he came from.Instead he got two human girls fawning over his junk. Yes, it went exactly as you would expect it to go. I should have seen it coming when they both said they were making female characters.
>>44860523
It is an unfortunate truth that many of the coolest and most iconic abilities in pathfinder are only attained at a reasonable level by level 9 arcane and divine spellcasters. You can do a lot with Psionics, but yeah some people just want to do wall of stone and shit.
>>44860707
DSP made a sunder-harbinger in Steelforge.
>>44860789
>I should have seen it coming when they both said they were making female characters.
No?
>>44860707
Brawler Twisting Path Renegade, take the iron path.
That is by far the best you will get in 1st party PF on sundering.
Anyone who has bought the physical copies of Arcane Anthology or Agents of Evil, how are they? Worth the money? Best inclusions?
>>44860731
Be upfront and say that you won't allow fullcasters because you don't trust those two players with it, because it will be too narratively disruptive to the campaign. If they want to fullcaster and promise to keep it in check then you can tentatively allow it but make sure they know you have the right to veto certain options.
Consider allowing other players to take fullcasters, though, and consider allowing t5 classes anyway with a warning attached.
And also be prepared for the powergamers to do fuckhugedamage if they use PoW, especially if you don't rein in Primal Fury/Broken Blade
I can't wait for Strange Aeons, anons. The Dark Tapestry beckons
>>44860789
That's what happens when you get female characters on IRC, although I'd put it less on true perversion and more the players have zero shame.
How did "cultural differences" become "HORSE DICK" anyway.Have logs?
>>44860808
Which is why I cut them out. The game is E8 anyway.
>>44860859
I am not particularly concerned about big numbers in combat, it is a wartime setting, but there is a LOT of rp that will have to be done, and unless the character can handle themselves in politics, all the combat prowess in the world won't mean much. I want to avoid fingersnapping world shaping power and the ability to outright solve both combat and social situations, not capacity for excellence or versatility, which is why I cut tier 1/2/5/6 classes out wholesale.
>>44860882
I'm going to make an Andoran artist who slowly goes mad and there's nothing you can do to stop me!
>>44860907
>world shaping
I still don't get why Psions/Wilders are called tier 2 when they can't really impact the world any worse than an ambitious bard can.
Anybody have a pdf of Ascension Games's Path of Shadows?
>>44860828
Huh that's pretty cool. Honestly to me it seems like its flawed as an archetype but has some extremely cool ideas.
Decay Body is BRUTALLY underpowered for a 17th level ability, the ability to force things to use splintering weapon/disposable weapon seems kinda meh and spending move actions to decide who the aura ignores seems harsh.
Not getting Greater Make Whole for so fucking long means the "sunder ruins loot" thing isn't fixed either. It should start as Make Whole rather than Mending, then Greater Make Whole, then Fabricate at 15th or some shit.
>>44860907
You cut them out because the coolest abilities are locked to them?
Not because they are OP, but because people like wall of stone and other things as cool?
You are a fucking terrible DM and all your players should quit.
Also for doing E8 but that's a separate issue.
>>44860928
Okay.
>>44860940
Psions with the discipline lists have access to most of the game-changing tricks wizards and sorcerers can do. Not all of them, nor do they get access to the full spectrum of them thanks to being stuck with only one discipline + general list, but they do have them. As well as some that are purely their own, like Psychic Reformation. Wilders are in a bit of an odd place in that not only do they get very few powers, but they also don't have unrestricted access to the discipline lists.
>>44855136
make her a tomboy lesbian
>>44857892
Except those maneuvers are ONLY an issue at CHARACTER levels 1-3.
Those level 1s are perfectly fine when you're still stuck using them at 5+, as are those level 2's you started getting one of at level 3.
And that's if you're a full Initiator. Partials get them even more slowly, so by the time they can even use a level 2 their level 1s are no longer a problem.
Of course, if it offers a saving throw, or doesn't even increase damage, there's *no reason* to have or use any kind of strike. Especially not that early.
That goblin will drop dead from a single hit anyways (unless you really worked hard at making your combat sucked).
>>44860829
>No?
To which part? If you mean to where the enlarge person went, then I thought it was obvious that it went to the girls.Browsing /tg/ has likely burnt out most of my ability to feel disgust.
>>44860901
Somewhere along the way all the GM and other player must have seen were "fluff RP" and "centaur", because I honestly have no idea. It's become evident that these two either have no shame or just think I'm trustworthy, because they're as open about their fetishes as /tg/ is.
>logs
I wipe all my irc logs regularly, and only ever save them when nobody else keeps a log of the session(s) for groups.
>>44861005
>Not because they are OP, but because people like wall of stone and other things as cool?
At no point did I say that. I said I don't want players solving both combat and social situations with the same skill set. An inquisitor is excellent at both, but will not hold the silver bullet for both singlehandedly.
Chill with the salt, mang, it's bad for your blood pressure.
>>44855136
Start with a male character and then take away reason and accountability.
